Canadian Government Going Big Brother? 479
Eh-Wire writes "If this article by Canadian privacy expert Michael Geist is any indication of what the Canadian Government has in mind for the Canadian Internet surfing public, then it looks like the Canadian public should be concerned. This does not look good!"
There go my plans (Score:5, Funny)
Re:There go my plans (Score:4, Funny)
Re:There go my plans (Score:3, Funny)
Re:There go my plans (Score:2)
Re:There go my plans (Score:5, Insightful)
That has absolutely nothing to do with draft dodgers. What it does is stop overseas refugees from entering the United States and then crossing the border into Canada to claim refugee status, or vice versa. In that case the refugee claimant would be sent back to the first country, where they are still eligible to make a claim. The goal is to streamline the refugee process, not send back draft dodgers.
During the Vietnam war, Canada essentially decided that disagreements between a state and its citizens over compulsory military service was not Canada's problem. Since no Canadian law was broken, deportation was not an option. In the end, over 40,000 Americans sought sanctuary in Canada. A pardon was eventually granted by Carter for everyone except deserters. A good video collection on draft dodgers is hosted by the CBC [archives.cbc.ca].
Re:There go my plans (Score:3, Interesting)
Democratic Republic and Constitutional Monarchy don't actually give normal folks any control over government, it's still the rich ruling for the rich.
No, I don't have any other alternatives handy.
Re:There go my plans (Score:4, Interesting)
If you've been following the news the last few days on the secret CIA Rendition program, the U.S. has bestowed upon itself the right to pretty much snatch anyone, anywhere on the globe, blindfold you, cut your clothes of with razors, stick a tranquilizer up your ass, put you in a private jet and fly you to various places to be tortured. One of which is Uzbekistan which apparently favors torturing you by putting parts of your body in boiling water.
If sometime later they deduce they made a mistake and you are in fact not a terrorist they just drop you in the middle of nowhere in Albania and say oops. One guy was disappeared for 5 months and had to find his family in Lebanon after they left Gemany thinking he had abandoned them.
When they pick you up they pretty much tell you that you are completely out of range of any judicial system or due process. They tell you they will take you places where you can be tortured or killed, and no one will ever know what happened to you.
How do you spell Hypocrisy to rant about Saddam's arbitrary arrests and torture, and making that a justification for the invasion. At least Saddam mostly stuck to torturing people in Iraq. The U.S. will snatch and torture anyone, anywhere in the world, often flaunting the most basic sovereignty of the nations where they are operating.
I think at this point since we can't escape it, its rapidly becoming time to fight it, hard.
I should add Rendition started during the reign of Bush the First or Clinton, Bush the Second has just been going to town with it. It does show that neither of the screwed up parties that run America have the most basic understand of what "Freedom and Democracy" actually means. First off it means you shouldn't be snatched off the street and tortured in to a confession when you may not be guilt of anything. In America we have this little thing called a constitution, due process, and civil rights but our corrupt government seems to have forgotten. They seem to need an attitude adjustment.
Re:There go my plans (Score:5, Insightful)
The truth is - that this is just the surface of the problems we have. But lets you and I look at the root cause of this problem, as I am sure that most otehrs on this happy little site will mod us into oblivion.
The current manifestation that we see of the fascist state is long in the making. It is the karmic consequence of the actions of the US after WWII. We can trace the infiltration back to the beginnings of Opertaion Paperclip.
If you arent aware of this widely known and well documented effort by the US here are some primary highlights;
After WWII the cold war quickly took hold. (in fact it had begun even before WWII ended) The Nazi's and the Japanese held some pretty horrific experiments. These experiments were done on human subjects and yeilded an incredible amount of data on human psychology, biology, behavior and many other areas. In fact the modern 'Good Clinical Practice' (for documenting drug trials and testing) was fundamentally started by the Nazi research arms.
The research done by the Axis was horrific yes, but it was research that was highly valuable - just a disgusting way to go about getting it. This research was desperately sought after by the Russians and the US. (the research was across the spectrum from tech r&d to biopharma and human psych and behavioral studies)
The US and Russis began competing heavily to get ad keep Nazi researchers. Typically the US would grant asylum to researchers to come over with all their research. The US was rumored to give the Nazi assimilants new identities - many times they were brought over as Jewish refugees. These people came to the US and were absorbed into the SOS - which evolved into the CIA.
The CIA has spent decades being built up around the data and framework derived from the Nazi and US intelligence research during the war. CIA intelligence activities not only continued, but intensified after WWII.
As time went on the lines between political, civil and clandestine organizations and roles and influence blurred. A perfect example of this blurring and blending of archetypes of thought is in the long and varied carreer of George Herbert Walker Bush. A political child, he had a military service record in WWII, had his father use family connections to set him up with oil business in texas and used the companies as CIA raid points into Cuba. (when he was elected to Vice President he had a SEC filings for the CIA tool companies destroyed). He served as Ambassador to the UN Head of CIA and VP and President.
His policy when in the CIA was one of disinformation and secrecy. The point here is that we have seen since project paperclip, an ongoing growth of Nazi intelligence practices in their influence ofall areas in the government of the US - thie should be a whole book, rather than just a posting here so Ill leave it to the reader to do more looking into this, while I will attach some links at the end to get one on their way.
The US population has been under a lot of propaganda in the past 50 years - all of which has been to provide a population who is abstracted from real emotional issues and is slowly turned into a militaristic populous who acquiesce to the actions of a more fascist governement as the individual is taught to believe that they have no personal power. This is reinforced through showing that in the face of protest, the actions of our Rulers is unquestionable and absolute. You are given the appearance of freedom to speak, but your voice no longer has any meaning. You opinion is debased to the point of pollution.
Barring any further diving into even deeper shitholes of despair and slavery where we see that t
Re:There go my plans (Score:4, Interesting)
Then look below to see the Bush Family Tree - take a look at just the names that I pulled from the family tree that many should recognize. Funny how you had no idea how really well connected that family is.
This is only the deaths directly relating to plane crashes... for the full list check out the site - but since it seems to be down for maintenance - please look to the google cache of the site:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:MmEcc-eEUZs J: bushbodycount.com/+&hl=en
The Site is down - so from google cache:
Paul Wellstone
He was a vocal opponent of the Bush administration and the only real progressive in the Senate. Polls showed that his popularity surged when he voted to oppose the war on Iraq. His victory in the Senate race was a foregone conclusion.
Senator Wellstone, his wife Sheila, daughter Marcia, three of his staff and both pilots were killed when his small plane went down in Evelyth, Minnesota, on October 25, 2002.
Governor Mel Carnahan
In the midst of a heated race for the Senate against John Ashcroft, the Governor died in a plane crash on October 16, 2000. His death affected Democrats in two ways - it would hurt their chances of seizing control of the US Senate, and it would strongly impact the Presidential race between Al Gore and George W. Bush. Said St. Louis University political scientist Ken Warren, "There will be a sympathy vote, but that won't be enough to allow him to win. "I don't think the race will be very close. It's over." As we know now, Ashcroft lost to a dead man. Carnahan was elected by a landslide.
Dan Rocco
He died on April 1, 2002, in a plane crash in Gainesville, Georgia. He was an executive vice president at ChoicePoint, the firm that gained infamy with their faulty "felons" list supplied to Katherine Harris during the 2000 election in Florida. As a result of this list, thousands of voters (mostly African-American voters) were wrongly identified as felons and purged from the rolls.
Jake Horton
He was the senior ice-president of Gulf Power, a subsidiary of Southern Company, a cohort of Enron in the energy industry, and a major contributer to the Bush agenda. According to reporter Gregory Palast, Horton knew of the company's appalling accounting practices, and "... had no doubt about its illegal campaign contributions to Florida politicans - he'd made the payments himself. In April of 1989 Horton decided to come clean with state officials, and reserved the company jet to go confront company officials. Ten minutes after takeoff the jet exploded.
Amiram Nir
He was a former Israeli agent who was in Jerusalem with George Bush during Iran Contra. He went under the assumed name of Pat Weber. Nir was scheduled to testify to the Senate subcommittee and it was feared he would reveal the truth. He perished when his aircraft was shot down with missiles from the helicopter of a man called Gene Tatum, 25-year CIA deep cover agent.
Senator John Tower
He was appointed by the Reagan/Bush Administration to chair the bipartisan committee to investigate the Iran/Contra scandals. He directed the Tower Report and had all the Iran Contra documents that told the real story. He was killed in an airplane crash later in Georgia in 1991. Also killed was his daughter, Marian.
Mohammed Zia al-huk
Dictator of Pakistan, and knew all about Iran/Contra, the training, funding, and arming of narco-terrorists like Osama bin Laden. In August 1988, the same day George Bush got the Republican nomination, his plane crashed into the ground with all engines running. The
Re:Everything but the kitchen sink? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, what I am trying to show in these posts is several ideas:
1. that after the operation paperclip which the US assimilated Nazi scientist (usually SS) into the intelligence body, we can see how some of the philosophies of the SS and Nazi's in general thrived in the super secret, well funded CIA when there was little actual oversight to the "How" of their work.
and that now the US is seeing how this choice has affected the US on all spectrums as the mindset brought into the US at the highest levels has seeped through to our political and judicial systems. Placing us a subtle coup of character, marching us towards a repeat of old and terrible mistakes.
2. That the bush body (and yes I am aware of clintons list as well) is rife with mysterious deaths, usually people close to the family who would have been in a position to know something come to suspicious deaths. The plane crash theme is significant in its commonality, and therfore lshould be observed more closely to see why. If we beleive all the FAA statistical data about how planes are orders of magnitude safer than other forms of transport - I think we would find that the statistical risk here is quite incongruent with national averages.
3. anyone who hands down just ignores the fact that the majority of the political whos who of the US can be found in this family tree is just fooling themselves into comfort as the reality of the ruling class upon them is too much for them to admit that we are, in fact, still fealty.
Yes, you are right I didnt cite how far removed these people are - I actually do cite this in my full length write up on the presidential cousins, but the only copy of which I had was on a board that is currently offline - so I posted the straight list.
The people we see here in this list is interesting in the fact that I hold that it would be damn hard to find any other (except one) family tree which has the density of political figureheads (significant political figureheads) in it. Most people I have discussed this with have started out with the same argument "You dont show how removed these people are" or "you can trace the relationship from anyone to anyone if you trace back far enough" - while these two comments, simple enough, seem to throw the "conspiracy theorist" label at me - and will quite effectively re-close the minds of other readers who would be on the verge of not wanting to look too deep, it does not hold up when looked at statisticaly. The density of political names within this tree IS significant. It is also significant the fact that this is one family tree that goes directly back to european royalty.
When you look at the statistics of those who have been in charge of this country in the light of the TYPE of government that has been put in place (a representative democracy - do not confuse our country with a democracy) you can see that this actually a little odd. Through putting in place a representative democracy, the actual vote of the "people" is abstracted from final decision making process. The representative group in effect in only given the consultation of the people on the overall trend of the political conscious landscape. Which if looked in the context of the Stern Father vs Nurturing WorldView, we can see that the overall conscioussness of the country, can be skewed through several tactics.
Finally, I can prove that I have been writing about this subject since before Moore came into the limelight as a tool of the propaganda machine. So try to actually look at the fact that there has been a hell of a lot more thought put into the ruling of people through the ages than you will ever put into these observations in your lifetime, and you will realize that the veils of delusion and the "conspiracy" defense mechanisms are in reality not your own, but effectively placed social triggers. Layer the notion of mass conspi
Well thank god... (Score:3, Funny)
I'm sure that's the final step.
Re:Well thank god... (Score:3, Insightful)
tinfoil == denial
Maybe you object to the
Um (Score:3, Interesting)
Where is our Privacy Commission during this?
Re:Um (Score:4, Informative)
I would give her a shout, as well as your local MP if this concerns you as much as it does me.
Re:Um (Score:2)
Moonlighting at ad agencies.
Similar to FBI VoIP tapping? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Similar to FBI VoIP tapping? (Score:3, Insightful)
I agree that it *might* be reasonable to tap the VoIP phone call with a court order, however it is not technically reasonable due to the way that VoIP technology works. Implementing such a system inherently changes the technology introducing increased latency as the phone calls now need to go through a central system to allow for the wiretapping, as opposed to a direct point-to-point connection. This exponentially increases the hardware costs for VoIP providers and increases latency, which has al
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I don't think so. (Score:4, Insightful)
It's sensationalist crap for the purpose of selling impressions on the websites he writes for.
The hairbrained proposals that some lobbyists are putting forth in Canada are real, but there's little danger of any of them being taken seriously and he knows that.
Re:I don't think so. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I don't think so. (Score:5, Insightful)
If only that weren't the case, I'd be able to buy my weed at 7-11 by now, instead of helping support the underground market. It's fucking rediculous that marijuana legalization continues to be debated [herald.ns.ca] while my only option is to purchase from people like this [canada.com].
Re:I don't think so. (Score:3, Insightful)
Or, if you are so dependent on the drug, or just like it soooo damned much, grow your own. Stop supporting the underground.
I'm sick and tired of people claiming
Re:I don't think so. (Score:3, Interesting)
Nope, I'm pissed off because there is NO way to get that certain substance "in a non-criminal supporting way".
The issue isn't so much that I have to purchase weed from thugs, because I don't. I know the people I buy from, and the people th
Re:I don't think so. (Score:4, Insightful)
How many outrageous laws are on the books today that slipped by unnoticed? We hear about them all the time.
Now, I will agree that articles that discuss these ridiculous laws should put the focus on the idiot lawmakers trying to pass them. Any article that tries to scare its readers into thinking the potential regulation has a legitimate shot of passing is being simply sensationalist [slashdot.org].
Re:I don't think so. (Score:2)
The Toronto Star?!?! sensationalistic?
;)
Re:I don't think so. (Score:2)
Things like wiretaps and recording conversations can be done with a government order but in the States they are done without court approval.
Basically if they think you're bad you're in worse trouble up here, but until they have some evidence you ARE bad you have a lot more freedom.
Where is the Privacy Commissioner? (Score:5, Informative)
Our government bowed to public pressure with respects to the American ballistic missile defence programme, and they'd bow to any sort of pressure towards the ISPs with regards to this. Of course, it can't hurt to let the privacy commissioner know that people care about this issue.
Privacy Commissioner: http://www.privcom.gc.ca/ [privcom.gc.ca]
Re:Where is the Privacy Commissioner? (Score:2)
[Basically, IC and PCH futz around for a few years developing grandiose plans related to hot topics of the day, and then someone mentions that half of the Strategis website is available only in English, and they run around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to cover it up, completely forgetting everything they've worked on previously.]
The Privacy Commi
...so don't break the law (Score:2, Insightful)
The ol' "got nothing to hide" fallacy, I see... (Score:2, Informative)
- If this law can pass, the law to render retroactively illegal something you already do can pass to.
- Technically, you break the law when you recieve kiddie/bestial porn spam. Once it's in your possession, you're breaking the law.
file trading (including music) is entirely legal in CanadaIt's not. It's... loopholy, for now.
Re:...so don't break the law (Score:2)
Seems to be a worldwide trend. (Score:5, Interesting)
In the US, it's called CALEA (among other things).
nice... but no meat (Score:5, Interesting)
Seems to be more along the lines of bitching about VoIP services. The Canadian privacy commission would never allow this to go through.
Re:nice... but no meat (Score:2)
Lawful Access [justice.gc.ca]
Copyright Reform Process [ic.gc.ca]
OH NO!!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Get out the aluminium foil (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Get out the aluminium foil (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Get out the aluminium foil (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Get out the aluminium foil (Score:2)
I checked by Googling tuke -- up popped some images of people with and without hats, so I thought - -gee! That must be it. Looks like I mis-googled.
And apologies to the other 14 Canadians. I hope I didn't hurt any of their feelings either.
Re:Get out the aluminium foil (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe Google is just getting dumber as the semi-literate become computer literate. "Garbage in, garbage out."
Re:Get out the aluminium foil (Score:2)
Without an "o"? [webster.com]
brother (Score:3, Funny)
Meh.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Meh.... (Score:3, Interesting)
From what I've learned from living in Canada. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:From what I've learned from living in Canada. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:From what I've learned from living in Canada. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:From what I've learned from living in Canada. (Score:2)
This is what happens when government funds media.
(I am not talking about the newspapers but rather the CBC.)
Re:From what I've learned from living in Canada. (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't malign Canadian media. Canadians are apathetic about politics because:
1) We don't care
2) Most of this stuff is niggly shit that isn't WORTH caring about
3) We have better things to do than worry about every conspiracy theorist out there that says the government is going to curtail our rights.
Now screw off and criticise your own media for the shoddy job it does of damn near everything. The Briar is on.
Re:From what I've learned from living in Canada. (Score:5, Informative)
I've lived in Vancouver for 32 years, and I think you did not get an accurate picture in your couple of months. There is great outrage whenever scandal shows up. The provincial NDP party was recently voted into oblivion due to scandal. No premiere has survived re-election for as long as I can remember. The federal Liberals went from massively dominant to a minority government due to scandal.
There was the
bingogate scandal
fast ferries scandal
sponsorship scandal
casinogate scandal
tainted blood scandal
strippergate
The list goes on. If I was to complain about something, it would be about too much scandal.
Re:From what I've learned from living in Canada. (Score:4, Interesting)
B.C. politics should be on TV, it should be broadcast world wide. There is Nothing in this world like B.C. politics.
And trust me, it's far more entertaining from outside the province.
Re:From what I've learned from living in Canada. (Score:5, Interesting)
The main party that's been in power for more than a decade, the Liberals, are famous for waffling. This isn't really their fault. It's because we Canadians waffle so much (we don't want missle defense! but we still want a business realtionship with the US!). The Liberal party usually doesn't commit to anything, untill an opinion poll is released. When the poll was released last week that 80%+ of Canadians were against the missle defense shield, and with mounting pressure in the Parliment to show their hand, the Liberals had to give in (sort of...).
Especially now that there is a minority government, the public will be mighty pissed at the party that causes a re-election. So the Liberals are being very careful to be as popular as possible right now.
As long as our please-the-people Liberals are in power, I don't think you'll see too much activism. Now, if the Conservatives or NDP got the power... then you'd hear something.
Re:From what I've learned from living in Canada. (Score:2)
It has nothing to do with the party in power, and everything to do with the fact that they have a minority government.
Re:From what I've learned from living in Canada. (Score:2)
That's a bunch of crap, and I won't waffle on that observation. You are propagating an unwarranted stereotype of your own country.
Anyways how is your example waffling. I would call it common sense.
Re:From what I've learned from living in Canada. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:From what I've learned from living in Canada. (Score:2)
I find most political activism emerges from political scandal. Most often are the scandals are completely blown out of proportion which is constructed by the media. Look at the "Sponsorship
Scandal" is the bigger scandal not in the amount of money spent investigating this matter and the fact that people who lied, manipulated and stole money not going to prison?
We have too much of a passive attitude towards politics in our country. I'm probably being passive in sayin
Really? (Score:3, Interesting)
You gotta take the power back! (Score:3, Insightful)
A tradition of successfull political activism is part of the culture.
There's a student strike right now. The education minister said he didn't understand why the students would do that over a 103 million cut in scolarships, "they're the best-treated students in the country!" he excliamed. Yeah, that's 'cause they don
Re:From what I've learned from living in Canada. (Score:4, Informative)
The Mohawks in Oka (not O.K.A.) were protesting the building of a golf course on a gravesite, and they killed a Sûreté du Québec policeman, who would be the equivalent of a state trooper. The Canadian Army took several weeks to move in slowly and arrest the perpetrators. Slowly to make sure no women or children were killed (In the end they killed no one and the Mohawks killed no more; not one of their (the army's) own, as you say). They did this slowly also because and Mohawks has support, and weapons, from other Mohawks, across the border in the US of A. Weapons including a 50 caliber machine gun, and idealogically motivated Iroquois from the Warrior Society.
I recall that there have been many similar situations in U.S. history that ended less well: Wounded Knee and Waco come to mind.
You misrepresent the "notwithstanding clause" [wikipedia.org] which allows provincial governments, not the federal government to ignore a federal ruling for a limited period of time.
as a former canadian soldier... (Score:4, Insightful)
Regular Canadian troops are on par individually with high level US ones. Even American commanders will tell you that.
Nevertheless, if the objective was to secure the bridge they were blockin
Once again you're slightly off. Oka was the main issue, and it had nothing to do with a bridge. Your "bridge" was the Mercier Bridge near montreal, which was blockaded by others as a show of support.
Finally, this isn't some fucking invasion of germany! The Mohawk were fucking fellow Canadian citizens (legality and treaty status aside)!
The army was called out in support of the public institution, the same way they were called out to help with flodds in Manitoba, or to perform Search and Rescue. Their mission was not to attack and destroy the Blockade. Their mission was to effect a solution with a minimum loss of life on both sides.
They accomplished their mission in textbook fashion. To suggest that the outcome could have been "better" with bloodshed speaks a great deal to your (lack of) character.
Re:From what I've learned from living in Canada. (Score:5, Insightful)
If Canadians ever engaged in a peaceful protest in numbers comparable to an American protest, they'd be arrested for "inciting to riot".
If ever?
Quebec City? UBC? Sure, some people were pepper sprayed, and a few were arrested and released, but that's pretty much how these semi-violent protests go, whereever they are.
You see, Canada is a democracy with no real restraining constititution: the notwithstanding clause makes it possible for the government to pass a law overriding any judgement against it.
For five years. During which time an election will take place, and the government can be turfed. The clause has never even been used by the federal government.
All you need is a majority to enslave the minority, so safest is to "shut up, blend in, and go along".
Right. Ask an African American about enslaving the minority. Or, for that matter, ask a gay American about shutting up, blending in, and going along ("don't ask, don't tell", I believe they call it).
Acutally, only those of us who are ignorant of the consitution do. POGG has nothing to do with the Notwithstanding Clause (in fact, it precedes it by 114 years!) or anything else involving the relationship between government and the people. It only involves the relationship between levels of government: it's the catch-all phrase by which residual powers (i.e. those not explicitly enumerated) are assigned to the federal government.
That's funny, because the Security Certificate is actually a frequent topic of concern on that evil, commie government propaganda machine that is the CBC.
I'm sorry, did you say "big government"? Here on planet Earth, we might use that term to describe a government whose spending plans would add 1.6 TRILLION dollars to its debt over the next ten years...and that's before you count additional military spending or social security reform (which just happen to be its two primary policy concerns).
The US is a great country, but it's currently on a course towards disaster. Unfortunately, too many of its less sophisticated citizens (i.e. hicks) are too distracted by the scary brown "evildoers" to notice how badly Bush is screwing things up.
Re:if you can't stand canada so much... (Score:2)
As much as you seem to think it's the equivilant to soviet russia, last time I checked I was still allowed to emigrate.
Hold, on there buckaroo.
It may not be that simple. If, for example you move to Ontario, you will have to register for OHIP to replace your existing provincial health insurance coverage. Read the application forms carefully: you have to agree to live in Ontario permanently
wow... (Score:4, Informative)
Your "points", where not incomplete are completly incorrect.
Read the application forms carefully: you have to agree to live in Ontario permanently.
Do you mean this [gov.on.ca] form?
Um, no shit you have to live in Ontario permanently. As opposed to say, living in Quebec and renting an apartment in Ottawa for the weekend, then claiming both OHIP and Quebec Health Benefits? That form seems simple enough to me if you keep your idology in check. Permanent as in primary residence, not forever. There's a huge section of "returning to Ontario". Duh.
Canada does not prevent emigration, but, in many cases it makes it illegal.
In light of your misreading of the simple OHIP form, I think you need to elaborate on this statement.
For example, RRSP HBPs become repayable in full within 60 days of becoming non-resident, or subject to being included in income
You're correct, I would consider this "fair". You can't possibly suggest that it isn't because you feel overtaxed. Again, you fail to support your argument. RRSP have that second "R" in them for a reason. The gov't is trying to get you to save for retirement, not issuing a tax break. How you interpret the plan is not their fault.
there is no joint tax filing as there is in the U.S
I'm not familiar with US tax law, but if your spouse was a stay-at-home type, then he/she would pay no tax at all in Canada, and you could claim the spousal amount. If you put all your savings into both RRSP's and RESP's for your kids, you'd be paying some pretty low taxes I'm sure. If you were smarter and opened of a small business, you could write off your spouse as an employee if she did your books, then write off the car you leased, etc etc.
When you get down to it,US citizens pay less tax than Canadian however you look at it, so it's kind of silly to compare individual structures.
How many hundreds of thousands of dollars do I have to repay to make up for a CA$10k government scholarship I foolishly accepted in the 1980s
I have no idea what the heck you're on about here...Are you suggesting the only benefit you received from the gov't was a scholarship? Are you suggesting you shouldn't repay a student loan?
I'm not sure what you're talking about really.
If the government services were on a par with the taxes paid, it would not be so bad,
I suppose it's a matter of perspective... clearly, certain events in my family's history would have left us broke had we been without publicly provided health care. (Which in the US, a the son of a single mother of 3 we would have, certainly.)
As someone who made use of that helping hand and now sits quite confortably on the other side of the fence I have no problems contributing to our services. Did you factor in lower crime and higher quality of life into your "pragmatic" calculations?
Hmmm (Score:5, Funny)
psst... End-Say Elp-Hay Ow-Nay!
Re:Hmmm (Score:2)
"Our" Internet? (Score:5, Funny)
Somewhere in the West, ca. 1806. The Lone Ranger and Tonto are hiding together behind a rock to escape a withering field of arrows fired by a hostile tribe of Native Americans.
Lone Ranger: "Wow, we're sure facin' a lotta them Injuns!"
Tonto: "What you mean 'we', paleface?"
~wavylines as we fast-forward two centuries~
Somewhere in Cyberspace, ca. 2006. A techie and a legislator are hiding together behind a firewall. Beyond the firewall are piles of blogs, spam, pr0n, and lobbyist- and law-enforcement sponsored counterproposals of varying degrees of stupidity.
Techie: Is this really what we want our Internet to be?
Legislator: What you mean 'our', taxpayer?
Re:"Our" Internet? (Score:3, Informative)
I know you're just making up a year to put with the joke in order to have it come out to a nice round 200 years, but putting the Lone Ranger in 1806 is ridiculous. The Lone Ranger carried a .45 caliber Colt revolver loaded with silver bullets in self-contained cartridges. Unless he was a time traveller, there's no way he was carrying such a firearm in 1806, when flintlock muskets were the norm. I'm not picking n
Now where will I run to? (Score:4, Funny)
Surely not the same Canada that... (Score:3, Funny)
well... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Surely not the same Canada that... (Score:5, Informative)
You're right, that's Germany [www.ctv.ca] where it actually is illegal to deny the Holocaust. In Canada it is perfectly legal to deny the Holocaust, you just can't spread that belief as part of a campaign to incite hatred towards a group (such as Jews) or propagate a movement based on this effort (such as neo-Naziism). Incidently, the person in question here was a German national, exported to Germany, and imprisioned by Germany under German law. He was also deported from the U.S. back to Canada while trying to obtain U.S. citizenship. So neither the U.S. nor Canada wanted him.
Schools to pay for free content, how to collect? (Score:4, Informative)
By the way, here in the U.S., schools (and everybody else) can freely surf my website. I guess you canuck educators will have to send me a check. Just remember, it was your idea.
None of this will work (Score:5, Insightful)
To some degree, this is bad. It means that things like kiddie porn get made available. It also means that there are loopholes around copyrights and so on.
But, on another level, the internet is the bastion of freedom! It allows people in places where opinions are regulated to see that there are people in other places who can actually think and express themselves. Totalitarianisim can't really last for long because of this. Although many of us, myself included, think that kiddie porn is an inimaginable crime, I think that the benefits of a free internet outweigh the drawbacks.
The internet is today a sort of wild-West environment. Not much regulation and lots of hiding places for bad guys. I'm sure that will change with time, just like the wild-West did.
It will probably take some sort of I-Gov to bring the 'net into line with laws and regulations. I don't know if I am ready for that yet (or should I say the net is ready for that). This will be the result of a maturing process that will take time.
Re:None of this will work (Score:5, Insightful)
You really think so? They way child pornography laws are currently in the US, a lot of fairly acceptable activity cannot be legal filmed. I agree that a priest raping a 10 year old boy should certainly be illegal (weither it's fimed or not), but what if a consentual couple (both 17) take a pictures of each other engageing in some form of intimacy and the next year decide to look at these pictures? I don't see why they should be thrown in prison (where they might really be raped!).
Any law restricting free speech will be eventually be used in ways that limit essential liberty. Child porn laws will be used to censor the net, FCC decency regulations will be used to keep small buisnesses out of the media, etc. We must take the first ammendment literally if we are to a free people.
Proportion... BLOWN!!! (Score:5, Informative)
Thank you Micheal Geist, for blowing something this routine out of proportion.
Thankfully, Canada has one of the most online governments on the planet. Here's exactly what they, and the public that responded to the governement, had to say about the Lawful Access updates. [justice.gc.ca] Of particular note is the Privacy Commissioner's comments:
The law isn't going to pass if it doesn't meet those criteria, among others. I honestly don't see a problem. The only reason that this update is going through is to ensure that law enforcement have the same abilities, irregardless of the technology. They can already intercept telephone and fax communications lawfully, this just ensures tehy can do the same with TCP/IP traffic.
Welcome Back (Score:2, Funny)
In reality, this will never pass or be held as law (Score:5, Insightful)
Second, there's no link to the bill, and anyone can say anything they want in a newspaper or opinion piece, because Canadians have something so sorely missing in the USA, aka Freedom of the Press [caveat - unless it's an article disparaging a certain person who owns most of their newspapers].
Third, while Canucks may tend not to fuss once something becomes law, they DEFINITELY do not just roll over when a government tries to impose things on them. The first use of the railways and machine guns was to put down the Riel rebellion. And they have had way more protests - and successful ones - than we have here in the USA.
But, hey, what do I know, I only lived there from the age of 13 to 29
Fair is fair. (Score:3, Insightful)
Charging schools for "free" content. (Score:2, Interesting)
In the name of
Where can I go? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Where can I go? (Score:5, Funny)
just kidding...
Lack of Manpower (Score:3, Interesting)
Ever since the installment of the Patriot Act, Canadians had a sort of hushed wait for their version which came and never was really implemented. Due to the recent tragedy involving 4 shot mounties it appears to be the "Reichstag" in the unravelling of these "Big Brother" type surveillance and systems of control.
But in reality, atleast in Canada this system will not work because most Canadians on their own will spot any kind of thing going on, and with the lack of manpower they better start to invest trust in the common citizen rather than turn them against each other with idiotic ways of monitoring us all.
Since when was the citizen corrupt enough to warrant monitoring from the government?
Kind of like a group of criminals to watch over a public school.
We should be the ones with a Little Brother system monitoring the government, tattletailing every time they do something wrong..now if only we could convince someone to hand out punishment.
[cx]
The Sky is Falling! (Score:3, Interesting)
The internet is now somewhat of an economic center, and one of the oldest functions of government is to regulate trade. It doesn't mean there's some huge conspiracy to destroy the free internet. If you're worried about the course these things may take, be careful who you elect and what internet services you subscribe to.
All this FUD about big brother is really starting to get a bit absurd, and it only encourages journalists when stories like this get a big reaction. Is it so hard to just say that some people are trying to regulate the internet? Why does it always have to be some big huge deal that's going to destroy the world?
"Lawful Access" (Score:3, Insightful)
(Damn, I overdosed on my cynicism pills this morning!)
Thank god I live in the USA! (Score:3, Funny)
Nevermind.
Hi, ever try reading the FAQ? (Score:3, Informative)
A handy FAQ [justice.gc.ca] for the tinfoil brigade.
Of special note:
Only in USA would this matter. (Score:3, Interesting)
Why?
Because in Canada, when legislation is found to be in violation of the Constitution or Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the legislation is overturned. We have judges that actually do what they were meant to do
On the other hand, in the US, its perfectly fine, in fact downright encouraged to pass laws that take away even the most basic rights, with no regard whatsoever about any type of constitutionally gauranteed right. Judges are placed purly by political affiliation and pay back the government for their posting by ignoring rights where they see fit.
PATRIOT ACT!
You americans are living in 1930's Germany right now and don't even see it. Already thousands of American citizens have been held for days without charge, without being allowed to talk to a lawyer or even family, with no warrant and no probably cause. What a great way to treat your fellow citizens!
All because you let Dubya scare you. Take my rights away! Take my rights away! that will somehow protect me from the world!
Re:But, but, but... (Score:5, Funny)
You're only half right. Canada isn't so great.
Re:But, but, but... (Score:3, Interesting)
Who do you think is pressuring them to do this?
The same people who pressured them to go face-recognition on their passports, that's who.
"Nice economy you got there, wouldn't any trade disputes to happen to it... lots of border crossings too. It'd be a shame if someone were to crack down and have every single vehicle searched, really..."
to escape the Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft religious right-wing fascists
Yeah, 'cause these guys s
Re:But, but, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course not. We both have problems with ultra-conservative nutbars. The biggest difference is that in Canada we delegate them to the radio [cfra.com] or proposing legislation that will never pass. In the U.S., they're elected to run the country.
Re:But, but, but... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:But, but, but... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:But, but, but... (Score:3, Interesting)
The point is that to the rest of the world they are screwballs. To you they are mainstream and pass those laws!
Sometimes it seems you guys will vote for anything if it's got a star spangled flag waving in the background.
Re:canada sucks (Score:2)
So what is the difference, then, between the way universal health care works in Canada and the way it works in various European countries (e.g., France and Germany)?
Re:canada sucks (Score:4, Informative)
Don't believe everything the U.S. private health insurance industry tells you. Expensive or complex procedures are commonly done on a waiting list basis, "first come, first serve" basis, not randomly as you imply. As for organ replacement, it has the same limitations as the U.S., namely the organs go to whomever was on the waiting list the longest, and many people, wealthy or not, do die on the waiting list in both our countries because it's also illegal to buy organs in the U.S., and I see little done to change that.
Canadian health care is not nearly as bad as you've been led to believe. So, please stop misleading others.
Re:canada sucks (Score:2)
That's such bullcrap. If you actually knew someone who's had major surgery to save their life you'd know you are wrong. Really, it's the opposite of what you say. Small things may be put off, such as if someone comes in with a fractured wrist that's not dangling by a vein, and someone comes in with a heart attack you better
Re:Cradle to the grave socialism (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Haha (Score:2)
Re:Lets start "Radio Free Canuckistan" (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, the irony. Yes, although there are Canadian content laws and a government funded national TV and radio station(s), it's ironic that it's the U.S. in which the media is the governments "bitch" as a compliant outlet for government propaganda. The rules and regulations in place to keep the Canadian government from using its own funded media for that purpose seem to do a better job at keeping the media "free" than the so-called independant media in the U.S. I wonder what Marshall McLuhan would have to say about that.
Re:This is surprising? (Score:3, Informative)
"The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democ