Phishers Face Jail Time Under New U.S. Bill 262
An anonymous reader writes "Democrat Patrick Leahy has introduced a new federal anti-phishing bill that would impose jail terms up to five years and fines up to $250,000 for criminals creating fake web site designed to con consumers in to giving them their personal information. 'Some phishers can be prosecuted under wire fraud or identity theft statutes, but often these prosecutions take place only after someone has been defrauded - that leaves plenty of time to cover their tracks. Traditional wire fraud and identity theft statutes are not sufficient to respond to phishing.' said Leahy in a statement regarding the Anti-Phishing Act of 2005."
Phishing after a night out (Score:4, Funny)
I'm glad about this (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I'm glad about this (Score:5, Funny)
Then I recommend you not pursue a career in the federal government.
Re:I'm glad about this (Score:4, Funny)
And some people realize a joke when they see one. Is the Navy still removing the sense of humor from new recruits? I thought they stopped doing that in the 80s.
Re:I'm glad about this (Score:2)
More importantly, they will also name colleges after you, since you were able to work out how to sail a boat to Afghanistan...
All kidding aside, thanks for serving.
Re:I'm glad about this (Score:2)
Re:I'm glad about this (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I'm glad about this (Score:2, Insightful)
This in a strange way reminds me of THE DISPOSSESSED [motherbird.com] by Ursula K. LeGuin.
CC.
Great..... (Score:4, Insightful)
Legislative Hall of Fame (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Legislative Hall of Fame (Score:2)
Re:Legislative Hall of Fame (Score:3, Insightful)
Currently, other than possibly copyright violations, there is nothing truly illegal about setting up a phishing site. Yes, you have intent, but that is very difficult to prove. To make a case really worthwhile to go after, yo
NO! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:NO! (Score:2)
Re:NO! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:NO! (Score:2)
It's the reason why we have extridition treaties, so that we can inforce our laws in other countries when the end result affects a US citizen. Is it right? In some cases, yes. Like anything else, there's always a broad range of exceptions.
Re:NO! (Score:2)
He's such a nice guy!
Phishing != 419 fraud (Score:2)
There is an occasional phishing-like variation where the boys from Lagos want your bank details to try and clean out the
Re:Phishing != 419 fraud (Score:2)
Good! (Score:2, Insightful)
Evidence (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Evidence (Score:3, Insightful)
Creating a website that looks like that of an existing bank or commercial concern using graphics and layouts harvested from said bank or commercial concern's website and asking for account numbers and PINs, SSNs and other personal information should be ample proof of intent. Using browser address bar and security certificate spoofs/hacks should cement the proof of intent.
An individual or group who collects usernames and passwords like that doesn't do so for curiosity's sake.
Re:Evidence (Score:2)
Please explain why (Score:5, Insightful)
Please explain why. New laws suck. 99% of the time the old existing laws are completely capable of handling the problem... just enforce the laws we have.
Re:Please explain why (Score:3, Insightful)
But yeah, send 'em to Federal PMITA prison at first opportunity too.
Re:Please explain why (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Please explain why (Score:3, Insightful)
That way, we can have one law that says scamming people is illegal rather than one law that says scamming people over the phone is illegal and another for scamming people on the internet, and another for scamming people in person, etc...
It's all the same crime - there's no reason to distinguish at the legal level, only in
Re:Please explain why (Score:5, Insightful)
How many congresspeople do you know who run for re-election on a platform of, "Hey, y'know, we've pretty much got a law for every possible crime imaginable, I just spent my term minimizing bureacracy so Justice, the cops and the courts could do their thing" ?
It's all about the re-election. "Hey, lookit me! The hip Anti-Phish Candidate! A year ago it wasn't even a word, but last week I wrote a law against it!! Who's your Re-Electable Daddy?!"
It's the same headline-generating mentality that prompts these bozos to make cellphone-specific anti-driving-while-distracted laws.
Re:Please explain why (Score:2)
Its rather unfortunate they don't run on that platform. I would probably vote for that candidate. Hell, I can't do any worse. I live in a conservative area, and, not being a conservative, every last person I voted for in the 2004 election lost (save
Re:Please explain why (Score:2)
Umm, ok.
Re:Please explain why (Score:2)
I am not for adding layer upon layer of useless laws when old laws will do just fine. This reminds me of the guy who likened the federal code to trying to maintain the same source for over 200 years.
Its high time for a complete rewrite.
Re:Please explain why (Score:2)
Besides, Trey Anastasio is way cooler than Pat Leahy anyday.
Re:Please explain why (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's my theory what happens:
Imagine a congressman or congresswoman wants to appear to be doing something. Or perhaps they are just naive. Either way, they come up with a new law which more or less covers an existing law. We'll use a hypothetical "Violence against Women Act 2005", which makes kidnapping a woman across state lines a federal offense.
Now, its already illegal to kidnap someone across state lines, as we all should know. However, considering that there is a 2006 election just around the corner, the average member of congress will not vote against this act -- just imagine the attack ads if he did!
Look at the AARP -- they are being attacked by USA Next for supporting gay marriage. What really happened is that Ohio was passing a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. The bill was broad enough to apply to unmarried cohabiting heterosexual seniors. The AARP, acting in the best interests of its members opposed the bill, and now we see ads about how AARP is for gay marriage.
So, let me ask you one question: Why are you against punishing criminals? Your opponent will be asking you this question in 2006.
As always, there is a Simpson's quote [simpsoncrazy.com] for this. Episode 2F11, where Bart discovers a comet that happens to be directly headed towards Springfield:
Re:Please explain why (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Please explain why (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Please explain why (Score:2)
Re:Please explain why (Score:2, Insightful)
"Whoever knowingly, with the intent to carry on any activity which would be a Federal or State crime of fraud or identity theft--"
For this law to even apply, the prosecution has to show intent to commit fraud as it is already defined. This is the same as just charging someone with attempted fraud, as far as I can tell.
Re:Please explain why (Score:3, Interesting)
Do you understand the difference between "obtaining someone's information" and "ATTEMPTING to obtain someone's information"?
I see this law as similar to ones making it illegal to possess "burglary tools." Who but a locksmith or other tech-type has a legitimate reason to possess lock picks while out in public?
Re:Please explain why (Score:2)
How is this different... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do we need a new law when an existing one will do?
Re:How is this different... (Score:2)
Attention Voters! (Score:5, Funny)
better solution. (Score:5, Interesting)
point a particular java app at the url and let her fly filling in all the form fields over and over and over again with what looks like real but is generated from files crap.
if the asshats have to sift through 300 bad records to find something useable, at least I slowed them down a bit.
If more people in the know did this to them instead of the worthless action of reporting them it would make a bigger impact. the last one I reported to ebay was still up days later. My second alert to ebay was responded with "we cant deal with them all, go away" but in nicer words.
Re:better solution. (Score:2)
That's what I'd do anyway. Still, your approach is much better than nothing.
When playing a game, always put yourself in the mind of the opponent and work out what they would least like you to do. So, fellow slashdotters, what would really annoy these people?
Justin.
Re:better solution. (Score:2)
Re:better solution. (Score:2)
Re:better solution. (Score:2)
Re:better solution. (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree...the more we "police" the internet ourselves, the less the government will need to regulate it.
An' if we take 'em out o'the holdin' cell afore their trial, an' string 'em up inna tree, then the liberal activist judges cain't set 'em free! Who's wit' me? Grab yer hoods an' meet me by the libary at half past midnight. We're gonna do some justice.
I don't care (Score:2, Funny)
Use it to prosecute spyware companies? (Score:3, Interesting)
A cause for celebration (Score:5, Funny)
"W3 pl4n 2 in7r0duc3 z00n 0d4r l337 w0rdz in d4 c0n73mp0r4n v0c4bul4rj", said the appointed speaker for the "H4x0rz" community, who prefers to remain anonymous
Phishing Bill Issues (Score:5, Informative)
I've met Sen. Leahy. He's an old-school Vermont Democrat who's held pretty much every state-level elected office except governor and lieutenant governor. I've had a couple of e-mail exchanges with him on CAN-SPAM. When that law first passed, he was cautiously backing it as a reasonable first step. He's realized lately, however, that it's been largely ineffective. The anti-phishing bill is his first real leading charge at cyber-scamming and it reflects some of his earlier frustration with Congress's inability to deal effectively with Internet issues.
(Or much else, in many people's opinion.)
Leahy ruffled some feathers in the online community by supporting RIAA-sponsored legislation on copyrights. It's possible this is a canny political attempt to balance the books a bit. Then again, he's a decent guy with 80% support in a state that's 33% Republican. Even in the minority, he's got a lot of clout. On this issue he'll probably get bi-partisan support, so it's likely this bill will, in some form, eventualy become law.
Besides, anyone high on Dick Cheney's hate list can't be all bad.
Uhh..what country will this be enforced in again? (Score:2, Informative)
This may actually help (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, whether they will become involved or not is subject to debate.
Hot air (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hot air (Score:4, Insightful)
The host computer can be moved offshore, but the phisher himself can still be nabbed as long as he stays in the US (or a country with an extradition treaty). As a few people pointed out on spammer thread [slashdot.org] the other day, not many of the crooks are willing to actually go live in Elbonia so they can hide from the law.
And all Phishing sites are US-based too. Whew! (Score:3, Insightful)
How many of you have actually traced down an IP address to find its origin? I know I'm not the only one. The first thing you find out is that the IP address is registered in Latin America or some other part of the world where we have no jurisdiction. The second thing you find out is that there is no way to do anything about their perceived illegal activities. I say perceived, because it may be un-legislated activity where they come from.
I say all of this because I don't think there's a single thing we can do to prevent those outside our country from doing this over and over and over again.
Practically useless, if you ask me.
Isn't there already a law that can be applied? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Isn't there already a law that can be applied? (Score:2)
Re:Isn't there already a law that can be applied? (Score:2)
i had thought the same thing...IANAL but if my understanding is correct it is indeed fraud, but the problem is that fraud cannot be prosecuted until someone complains, and so the actual fraud might not occur until after the phisher closes down their website and covers their tracks. what this law is trying to do is allow law enforcement to go after them before they get any complaints about fraud or identity theft and hopefully before all the evidence is d
Re:Isn't there already a law that can be applied? (Score:2)
This law wouldn't make it illegal to provide false information to a website, whether the website was asking for your opinion on a political issue or not.
Or are you suggesting that politicians are setting up fraudulent websites to get people to falsely support their issues? Sure it would be sleazy for them to do so, but since it would be completely pointless I don't understand why you think they would. Members of Congress might make their decisions based on polling t
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:More nannying by the state. (Score:2)
If people are stupid enough to live in homes that aren't as secure as a military installation, they deserve to have their stuff stolen. How dare the state infringe the civil liberties of smart people like me by making it illegal to break into your house and steal stuff, if you're dumb enough to have glass windows that I can just shatter with a brick?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:More nannying by the state. (Score:2)
Not everyone can be a genius like you. Fortunately, not everyone is a sociopath like you either, believing that all of the pathetic inferior humans deserve to be defrauded because they're not as smart as you.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:More nannying by the state. (Score:2)
Umm, since a little while after phishing schemes started to become a problem. They're trying to educate consumers, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't punish the criminals who make it necessary for them to repeatedly point this out.
Who's clicking on these things? (Score:2, Interesting)
--
Subject: E-gold secutity patchHBhdGNo
Dear E-gold user, we receive many complaints concerning unsunctioned taking the money
off the balance of our users recently, thus we earnestly ask you to install the
following
Why can I murder someone for less jail time? (Score:5, Insightful)
For our 'cyber-laws' we should be taking precidence from our existing laws. Instead of levying new fines for phishing, add this definition onto our current fraud and identity theft laws. Instead of creating crazy fines for spammers (although I want to see them pay just like everyone else) and model the punishments similarly to the do-no-call lists?
Law-makers don't see the internet as an extension of the physical world, and in term of law it should be seen in this light. Extend Current laws, don't make them up in a flight of fancy.
Re:Why can I murder someone for less jail time? (Score:2)
For this proposed law, the maximum jail time is 5 years. I'm pretty sure the maximum penalty for murder is a bit longer than that.
Instead of creating crazy fines for spammers (although I want to see them pay just like everyone else) and model the punishments similarly to the do-no-call lists?
The fine for violating the do-not-call registry is $11,000 per call. Spamming a million emails
Ahh yes... (Score:2)
(sarcasm)
Theives (Score:2, Insightful)
Fines backwards, again (Score:2)
Phishing fine: $250,000
It's cheaper to poison people with radiation and then take their credit card #'s then it is to trick them into giving you their credit card #'s.
Re:Fines backwards, again (Score:2)
I'm shocked (Score:2)
Does this mean phishing is perfectly legal in the U.S. until specific legislation is passed against it?
Etymology (Score:2)
So far, we've got Spam, Phishing, anybody recall other techno-terms that have made it into the government lexicon?
Comment removed (Score:3, Funny)
This will not help... (Score:2, Informative)
How is the US Goverment going to press charges when its occuring out of its jurisdiction?
Just my 2c...
The judge will probably have to wait (Score:2)
How's our extradition treaty with Nigeria? (Score:2)
Big Fat Whoop (Score:3, Interesting)
Two weeks passed, and EV1.net did not take any action whatsoever. So, I sent the report to the big Brit banks, which included The Bank of England, Barclays, and the legendary Lloyds. I got immediate replies, personal ones, NOT canned, that they would immediately take legal action agianst the offending CSP.
I checked the IP shortly after receiving the replies and got a DNS error.
It seems to me that EV1.net, which is based in Houston, has merc tendencies when it comes to site hosting.
How About (Score:2)
What's good for the goose ... (Score:2)
Similarly, law enforcement get confessions sometimes on the basis of misrepresenting what they know or
Danger. Potential abuse (Score:3, Insightful)
Report Phishing to Whom?? (Score:2, Interesting)
OT: What do Phish fans say when they run outa pot? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:The crime is creating a website? (Score:5, Insightful)
Any that do should be rightfully concerned.
Re:The crime is creating a website? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The crime is creating a website? (Score:3, Insightful)
Additionally, all parody sites I've seen either are blatantly obvious parodies or state somewhere on the site that they're parodies. Phishing sites won't do that because they're trying to convince you that they're genuine.
Apples and o
Re:The crime is creating a website? (Score:5, Insightful)
This bill stops Bad Guys® from stealing the inexperienced users' life savings before they actually steal anyone's money. It does not outlaw building any website, just those designed with the intent and purpose to steal your bank password.
Re:The crime is creating a website? (Score:3, Interesting)
This bill stops Bad Guys® from stealing the inexperienced users' life savings before they actually steal anyone's money.
Theft and fraud are already illegal. Who says that this law will do anything against phishers? The reason why phishing thrives is not because it is legal, but because it's hard to investigate and/or police just can't be bothered.
It does not outlaw building any website, just those des
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Exact wording of the bill. (Score:5, Informative)
S 472 IS
109th CONGRESS
1st Session
S. 472
To criminalize Internet scams involving fraudulently obtaining personal information, commonly known as phishing
IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
February 28, 2005
Mr. LEAHY introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
A BILL
To criminalize Internet scams involving fraudulently obtaining personal information, commonly known as phishing
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Anti-phishing Act of 2005'.
SEC. 2. FINDINGS.
Congress finds the following:
(1) American society is increasingly dependent on the Internet for communications, entertainment, commerce, and banking.
(2) For the Internet to reach its full potential in these and other respects, it must continue to be a trustworthy medium. This means, for example, that Internet users should be able to trust the stated origin of Internet communications and the stated destination of Internet hyperlinks.
(3) Internet users are increasingly subjected to scams based on misleading or false communications that trick the user into sending money, or trick the user into revealing enough information to enable various forms of identify theft that result in financial loss.
(4) One class of such scams, called `phishing' , uses false e-mail return addresses, stolen graphics, stylistic imitation, misleading or disguised hyperlinks, so-called `social engineering', and other artifices to trick users into revealing personally identifiable information. After obtaining this information, the `phisher' then uses the information to create unlawful identification documents and/or to unlawfully obtain money or property.
(5) These crimes victimize not only the individuals whose information is stolen, but the entire online community, including millions of people who rely on the integrity of the Internet's system of addresses and hyperlinks.
SEC. 3. CRIMINAL OFFENSE.
(a) In General- Chapter 63 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:
`Sec. 1351. Internet fraud
`(a) Website- Whoever knowingly, with the intent to carry on any activity which would be a Federal or State crime of fraud or identity theft--
`(1) creates or procures the creation of a website or domain name that represents itself as a legitimate online business, without the authority or approval of the registered owner of the actual website or domain name of the legitimate online business; and
`(2) uses that website or domain name to induce, request, ask, or solicit any person to transmit, submit, or provide any means of identification to another;
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned up to 5 years, or both.
`(b) Messenger- Whoever knowingly, with the intent to carry on any activity which would be a Federal or State crime of fraud or identity theft sends any electronic mail message that--
`(1) falsely represents itself as being sent by a legitimate online business;
`(2) includes an Internet information location tool that refers or links users to an online location on the World Wide Web that falsely purports to belong to or be associated with such legitimate online business; and
`(3) induces, requests, asks, or solicits a recipient of the electronic mail message directly or indirectly to provide, submit, or relate any means of identification to another;
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned up to 5 years, or both.
`(c) Definitions- In
Re:The crime is creating a website? (Score:3, Insightful)
And also people who try to ensure interoperability of bank sites with "non-standard" browsers [knaff.lu].
Don't laugh... it did actually happen!
WTF moderation? (Score:2)
Re:New *Introduced* Bill (Score:4, Insightful)
The Supreme Court overturns very few laws. Congress passes plenty of laws. You have no idea what you're talking about, and should stop wasting everyone's time by posting such stupid messages.
Re:A better solution. (Score:2, Funny)
Hacker 1: I need to get in the system and list this guy as deceased.
Hacker 2: Well, just click here on 'hack' and you're in.
Re:US Logo (Score:2)
It is missing. It is purposely removed. Hadn't you noticed now anti-Delaware Slashdot is? They add a little anti-Delaware touch to all the logos so we, the faithful readers, get a little "Where's Waldo" search with every article.