Lexmark's DMCA-Abuse Case Coming To An End 431
Adama writes "Lexmark is dead in the water with their hopes to use the DMCA to force their customers to buy their over-priced toner. Their request for another hearing has been denied. Ars has
an especially great write-up on this." (See this earlier story for more background on Lexmark's lock-in attempt.)
Hopefully... (Score:4, Insightful)
I know, I know, downloading music isn't quite like manufacturing your own cartridge for another company's printer, but at least this proves that the DMCA can't shield everything.
now, to try and get tech favor again (Score:4, Insightful)
bet I'm not the only one.
DMCA = no fans.
Really though (Score:3, Insightful)
Ripoff Pricing.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Good, this levels the playing field (Score:4, Insightful)
It's better for the manufacturers too, because their competition won't be doing it either. They no longer need to "keep up with the Joneses" and engage in shady pricing.
Re:now, to try and get tech favor again (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Loss of potential future revenue because competitors will now be able to sell replacement cartridges
2. The cost of paying the lawyers for the case, or
3. Loss of revenue because of the many people recommending against Lexmark printers ever since the lawsuit began (regardless of outcome).
I'm betting #3, and that the effect will persist for years from now. I, like you, will not buy Lexmark printers anymore, and have not for several years. I recommend against them when ever people ask, and I explain to them why. Yes, other printer companies gouge you for printer supplies too, but Lexmark has achieved unusual lows by attempting to apply the DCMA to sustain their anti-competitive desires.
Re:The Razor Principle all over (Score:1, Insightful)
Except that the value of trees will increase very quickly once they become scarce. That's how economics works. There are a number of problems caused by deforestation beyond the easily-dismissed "We'll run out of trees!" argument. Sadly, with rationale like this being associated to essentially good ideas, it's going to be difficult to convince anyone who really needs convincing.
Re:Real simple.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:unfortunately.... (Score:1, Insightful)
9/11. The best thing that ever happened to big business and governments across the world looking to enforce nasty draconian rules of service.
From the article... (Score:5, Insightful)
Does anyone know what the status of the DeCSS lawsuits are, and whether this applies? I would also love to see this applied to other things.
But wouldn't this have other implications as well? The notion that a work that is designed merely as a means to function is not copyrightable may have implications for the GPL, would it not? How much code is copyrighted and protected under the GPL that was designed only with function in mind, and nothing else?
What about the code that SCO claims ownership of? Even if it existed, could they in fact have copyright over it, given this ruling?
Re:Remember when printers were really expensive? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:now, to try and get tech favor again (Score:5, Insightful)
Sadly, I don't think the average Joe cares about being screwed over. They have been brain-washed to look for rock-bottom prices. If Lexmark can find a way to sell a similar printer to the competitors for $2 - $5 less, most US drone-shoppers will eat it up.
Re:The Razor Principle all over (Score:3, Insightful)
Ink though, is basically water with pigments. They sell you half filled tanks (seriously, i've opened a few Epson and Lexmark ones) for outrageous prices, and actually try to stop the sale of third party ink cartigades, which in my experience work just as better as the "serious" ones. They are insane - stop selling printers for $80 and try a new buisness model.
As for printing less, i do that. I print whatever i need on a trusty Laserjet (whose toner doesn't seem to want to give up), which is usually a few pages a month.
Re:The Razor Principle all over (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, I guess that depends entirely on wether or not someone can legally make plugin-compatible razor blades that can be used in the Gillette handles.
If someone can legally make a razor blade that works with a Gillette razor and you can buy them, then your analogy falls apart very quickly.
If, however, Gillette has used a copyright law to prevent people from making razor blades which will work in a Gillette razor, then your analogy is good.
Which is correct? I honestly don't know, I don't recall checking for generic blades to go into a Gillette razor. But like I said, unless they've barred someone from making a compatible blade, saying the razor industry has done this exact thing may not be accurate.
Cheers
Just get a cheap laser printer (Score:5, Insightful)
The scary part is that I tell people about this, how all they have to do is sacrifice color and they can go at least 1 school year without paying $20-$30 per cartridge. For my HL-1440, not exactly a high end piece of equipment, a new toner cart costs only $70.00. Even if it were $100.00 it would still be worth the cost. What does it say about America that these college kids, many of whom do in fact have to pay for their own supplies can't be bothered to put down $140-$200 now for a new laser printer so that they can save 3-5x that in at least 1 fulltime school year of printing?
Having had this now for going on 2 years and it still works well, I just don't understand why people who don't NEED color printers opt for the much more expensive inkjet. Most printing is black and white and you can save hundreds of dollars, enough to buy your laser printer several times over, if you get the right model because the toner cartridge it comes with can do at least a few thousand pages. I know I got at around 4,000-5,000 pages out of my first toner cartridge.
I was with you 'till the end (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Common people: 1, Fritz Hollings: nill. (Score:4, Insightful)
the razor blade game (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm quite relieved that the DMCA has not proven to assist them in their consumer-lock-in attempts.
Re:the razor blade game (Score:3, Insightful)
I suspect a lot of people use Lexmark printers because they came for "free" with their computer systems, and they feel obligated to use it instead of going out and buying a competitor's printer. That's the real loss-leader there, I think...
EricJavaScript is NOT Java [ericgiguere.com]
Re:The Razor Principle all over (Score:2, Insightful)
Check out what happened on Easter Island [primitivism.com], with their "we'll cut back on consumption next year" attitude...
Re:Good, this levels the playing field (Score:3, Insightful)
My prediction: things will stay the same. This isn't about maximizing profit - at least not to the extent that Lexmark would have you believe. It's about control. Big business would love to have ultimate control over its products. That's why you see the RIAA et al. trying to crush P2P when signs point to the fact that P2P actually increases their business. There seems to be a fallacy that control=profit.
Re:Most paper is grown on tree farms (Score:1, Insightful)
The fact that we even USE trees for paper is tragic. The things take decades to mature, and perfectly serviceable paper can be obtained from other plants that grow fast enough to be harvested ANNUALLY. No more clearcutting your nursery and waiting a decade or so. Land that's productive and harvested EVERY YEAR -- imagine that!
I don't disagree that cutting down trees is useful. It's the only way to get wood. Not all tree parts can be used for wood, so you have some room for by-products too. But seriously--who needs to wipe their ass with a freshly-chopped tree? Why on earth wouldn't hemp suffice? It's all just cellulose.
It's like the oil industry. I like oil. Oil is useful. It's a damned shame we burn so much of it, though. I'd prefer we burned hydrogen and used our oil to make plastic.
Implications for companies using similar tactics? (Score:2, Insightful)
But I'm curious about the implications this ruling will have on other company's attempts to do a similar thing.
There was a story a while ago about HP region coding their printers, and just recently about BIOS approved cards only in laptops.
I hope this sets some kind of precedent that stops this harmful tactic!
Re:unfortunately.... (Score:5, Insightful)
People are too cheap to *pay* for customer service.
But don't think Lexmark is unique. Back in the typewriter days it was common place to offer low price typewriters but only supply carbon ribbons and charge an arm and a leg for them rather than the fabric ribbons that lasted longer and could be reinked.
Re:The Razor Principle all over (Score:4, Insightful)
I have personally lost faith in humanity because the majority of the world is made up of media-propaganda-shaped idiots like you who fail to realize the effects we have had on the earth since the beginning of the industrial revolution a mere three hundred years ago HAVE ALREADY caused damages with after-effects who will cause a great number of disasters throughout this century.
Basically.. it's too late. Two hundred thousand years with the same years and we manage to fuck it up in three hundred. Thanks for yet again proving I am right in my foresights.
I mean what I say about printers: encourage yourself and friends to consume of any product then your footprint on the earth, the damage you leave behind for your children and your children children, will obviously be less. The less you print, the less damage you do. The more you consume, the more you damage the future of your children. It is very simple. Read this again if you still do not understand.
It's #1 because idiots buy "cheap" Lexmarks (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry, but it's #1.
(*) Especially since the average
cost of PrintING hasn't really changed (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not interested in just owning a printer. I'm interested in printing. The printer itself is just a tool towards that end. So I don't want it "both ways". I don't care about the price of the printer - I care about the cost of printing. The up-front cost of the printer itself is only a part of that cost, and, more often than not these days, a fairly small part.
The motivation for the printer mfg to sell hardware at low margins should be the same as it is in any other market: competition!
Re:I was with you 'till the end (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:The Razor Principle all over (Score:4, Insightful)
we gearheads KNOW how printer companies help you print less. their freakin' chunkajunks break down
so, way I see it, lexmark is now advertising printers that don't work
spread the word
Re:It's #1 because idiots buy "cheap" Lexmarks (Score:2, Insightful)
When my mom took me to Staples with her to get a printer, I just discounted Lexmark out of hand. I'm not going with someone whose profit margin is high enough on ink that it's profitable to sue competitors. We went with an HP printer/scanner combo. (Yes, I know, HP computers suck. HP printers do not.)
Come on, folks. You know you're doing all the computer repairs around here. Well...to make the easier, you need to start weighing in on the computer purchasing.
Re:unfortunately.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe that there are a number of interlocking and paradoxical reasons that customer service has turned to crap. In many cases customers now have tremendous choices of what to spend their money on, but have lost any real choice of where to spend their money. At one time people bought their goods at a huge variety of mom and pop grocery stores, bakeries, pharmacies, deli's, appliance stores, radio & TV stores, office supply stores, hardware stores, book stores, newsstands, restaurants, lumber yards, clothing stores, dry goods stores, gas stations, and so on. The owners and management of these mom and pop stores were close to their customers and the loss of a relatively small number of customers could cause financial hardship for the store. Now, most stores are huge operations that sell a very broad range of goods and there is a smaller choice of stores in a given trading area. Home improvement stores have put hardware stores, paint stores, and lumber yards out of business. Discount stores and supermarkets have put many other stores out of business. The sheer size of these mega store corporations cushions the effects of unhappy customers. This cushioning effect caused by the huge size of these corporations and the fact that the dissatisfaction results in customer churn between the available stores, not the net loss of customers. If things get too bad, stores can be hurt (Kmart) and manufacturers can get into trouble (Chrysler). These large, sophisticated , legally savvy stores and manufacturers (or whatever they are, they don't actually make anything anymore) have the ability to declare bankruptcy, close a few stores or warehouses, lay off employees, get new financing; and keep abusing customers. If a mom and pop owned store or factory declared bankruptcy, mom and pop went out of business and lost their livelihood; the desire to survive was a great incentive to satisfy and retain customers. When stores and manufacturers no longer have an incentive to satisfy customers and investors demand that the maximum short term profit be squeezed out of the operation, customers may as well just bend over and smile.
Re:unfortunately.... (Score:3, Insightful)
The same thing that happened to the days when politicians who sold out to big business would get thrown out in shame. And the days when people would be out rioting in the streets and staging labor walk outs over some bastard piece of legislation like the Patriot Act. And the days if an employer tried to tell people what they could and couldn't do on their own time it would be met with a giant sucking sound as employees headed out the door and customers left with them in support.
We've gone nutless. And the Republican administration which bubba seems to like so much is going to keep sticking it to us in defference to big business because we've collectively lost our nads and no one respects a chump, especially a stupid one.
One of the interesting facts largely lost to history is that George Washington was someone who had real stones. Some of it was luck, no doubt. But he wasn't just some puss in a powdered wig, he was the real deal. If the father of our country was alive today I'm sure he'd be asking himself who these gutless retards are who took over his country.
Re:Kinda like plants (Score:3, Insightful)
As to breaking the law by propogating patented/copyrighted plants, suing may be fine for commercial farmers and other companies, but enforcement of your average gardener will be as practical as the MPAA/RIAA policing peer-to-peer. A few examples will be made, but if there's demand, people will propogate the plants. Simple as that.
Re:unfortunately.... (Score:2, Insightful)
The average consumer probably won't even hear about this ruling before they go to PC World to pick-up their new Lexmark.
Re:unfortunately.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, ever since "Supersize Me" came out, McDonald's has become really good about this. Walk up to the counter or drive up to the speaker and get a "Welcome to McDonald's. How may I help you?" instead of "Would you like to try a (insert random meal here I'm not interested in) for only (price I don't feel like paying.)" And then once you are done ordering, you may get a "Will that complete your order?" instead of "Would you like that supersized?" Seriously, McDonalds (at least where I live) doesn't push larger sizes on you any more. Now, the new "I'd hit it" slogan which I've heard about does scare me, even though it absolutely reeks of urban legend/hoax. But seriously, McDonald's is one of the quickest reacting businesses to market pressures. Once animal rights groups got on them, they proved that their beef doesn't come from South America and made sure that their chicken providers don't cut the beaks off of chickens. McDonald's was one of the first fast food chains to replace lard with veggie oil when fat became evil. Remeber styrofoam containers? You can still find them at a lot of restaraunts, but not McDonald's since the 80's. I'm not saying that they are good at heart, but they do know what most other companies don't seem to realize: Don't piss on your customers. And you know what? It seems to be a profitable business strategy [reuters.com]
As for your stupid customer with the broken CD-RW, I've seen employees at computer stores equally as dumb. Asked about memory and being pointed to the hard drives. Asked about CPU's and being pointed towards the HPs and Packard Bells (okay, that one was a few years back, but...)
That aside, I personally usually get the warranty, as it is quite convienient. Especially through American [americantv.com] if you have one in your area. Usually just drop the thing off, then pick it up in working condition less than a week later. And they are the only authorized repair center in my area for a lot of electronics: Mitsubishi, Toshiba, Panasonic, so you know it will be trading less hands when the repairs are done. You do still get some upselling from them, but if you're honest about what you want they help you out. And if you feel like you're being forced into a purchase, find another salesperson. They live off of their commission, so some try to make the quick buck, but the REALLY successful salesemen make their money by building up a portfolio of loyal customers who always ask for them by name when buying something. Oh, and if they want to make the sale, a salesman at American does have the authority to give you a price break. So if you don't waste too much of their tim
Re:unfortunately.... (Score:3, Insightful)
They're both selling us down the river. We need to toss both groups out and elect some of the other parties.
Between them they've got the people so convinced that thier only choices are tweedle dee and tweedle dum that thier quite happy to share despite the show of partisian politics they put on every few years, and even then it's only the elected officials and those in the public spotlight who pretend anymore.
Mycroft
Re:unfortunately.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Second off, look into that 'warrenty' a little closer. What it actually is, is an insurance policy (by law in many states, and is regulated as such) and is seldom worth the paper it's printed on. The ONLY time an 'extended warrenty' is worth buying is when it's a 'no fault' policy. Meaning they can't refuse to fix/replace for ANY reason durring the covered period.
Generally speaking they ARE an attempt to 'wrench money' from the customer, maybe not a concious attempt on the unknowing employee's part, but most certainly on the companies part.
Mycroft