Guy Game Results in Lawsuits and Injunction 111
Several readers have written in to report on Tuesday's lawsuit regarding 'The Guy Game'. The PC/console offering, which strings a weak trivia game around footage of naked college age girls, has come under fire after the revelation that a woman featured prominently in the game was under the age of 18 at the time the footage was taken. The lawsuit names Sony (PS2), Microsoft (Xbox), Take-Two Interactive (Publisher), and Top Heavy Studios (Developer) as defendants. Commentary available on GamesIndustry.biz.
why is anyone surprised? (Score:1)
Re:why is anyone surprised? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:why is anyone surprised? (Score:1, Funny)
Re:why is anyone surprised? (Score:2)
Re:why is anyone surprised? (Score:1)
Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder what the church thinks of the game. Maybe if she wants to be such a model citizen, she should start out by not running around topless during spring break.
Re:Well... (Score:2, Insightful)
That's a typo, it's really supposed to say "be attractive in her community and church"
But honestly, any time you hear some person trying to act holier then thou and bragging about how the go to church and have a personal relationship with Jesus, it's because they are lying.
Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
Insightful? You realize that's why we have the concept of 'a minor' right? So that dumb youthful indiscretions do not tarnish one's life for ever?
Re:Well... (Score:5, Interesting)
That's also why you have parents. Why did they let her run around topless for spring break in the first place if it was going to be such an issue? As for "tarnishing one's life", well, you're born topless. I don't understand why being seen with your shirt off is such a big deal anyway. Hell, until you hit the teenage years, lots of parents think little girls running around on the beach with no shirt on is "cute". As soon as they have breasts, though, everybody's sexual insecurities make them all uncomfortable about it. People like that need to grow up.
To top it off, it's not like somebody forced her to do this, or paid her to do it. It's something that happened in a public place, and as such it shouldn't be any less legal to photograph it than it is to witness it. If having a photograph of a naked person in public who happens to be a minor is a crime, it should be the guardian of that minor who allowed them to be naked in public who should be held responsible. That assumes that the real goal here is to protect minors though, and not to make people feel all warm and fuzzy inside because they don't have to be embarresed that they're aroused by sexually mature women.
Since we're on slashdot I guess I should throw out a strawman here. What happens if a 17 year old streaks past the camera in a live newscast? Should the news outlet be prosecuted for child pornography, or be disallowed to keep that footage in their archive?
Re:Well... (Score:2)
In that case, Sony, RCA, and Tivo get sued, because their TV's and DVR's showed the event. It's all nonsense.
Re:Well... (Score:1)
Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's perfectly legal to photograph someone in a public place, but it is not legal to use that image for commerical purposes. This is a issues that photographers deal wih everyday.
Re:Well... (Score:1)
Re:Well... (Score:4, Informative)
Plus, news organizations routinely pay for such rights anyway, whether they have to or not.
A video game, however, is not news. This situation is pretty clear cut. Commercial exploitation of someone's image without persmission is illegal. And someone under 18 cannot legally give permission.
Plus, technically (stupid as the law is), her being under 18 makes it child porn.
Re:Well... (Score:2)
News is a rather large exception. And even in the news, the image must be newsworthy.
Show me the law that says that. If it's done in public, it's fair game, regardless of whether it is "newsworthy" or not. I don't recall any newsworthiness standards, so I think that you're completely wrong.
Re:Well... (Score:3, Interesting)
Show me the law that says that. If it's done in public, it's fair game, regardless of whether it is "newsworthy" or not. I don't recall any newsworthiness standards, so I think that you're completely wrong.
Bzzzt. He's completely right. You're not.
Specifically what's wrong is your idea that "if it's done in public, it's fair game" - no, it isn't, and I want to put a stop to this myth right now.
Read this [stanford.edu] to learn the
Re:Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
Uh, no.
Go to your local, large, well-stocked bookstore. Ask to see all the books by David Hamilton (or any of a dozen other artists who do similar work). Browse for a while. Report your findings back here.
Yes, I'll grant you that in this instance a case could be made for criminal prosecution and that underage nudity is usually prosecutable. Your blanket statement, however, overstates the situation rather badly.
Re:Well... (Score:2)
I run a small, inconsequential website. And I've been wondering what might require a release, and what wouldn't. The links you provided pretty much spelled it out for me, in a fairly clear manner. (I don't need a release, because my site is non-commercial, and any negative comments are used as parody)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
What some people are doing in this thread right now is defending child porn, whether or not they think that's what it is. Legally, that is what it is.
I'm not debating the legality of underage nudity, but since you're throwing the term "child porn" around, I thought I would point out that the government apparently thinks there should be a gray area where the death penalty is concerned. You can receive the death penalty even if you're 15. But since that's just death, and nobody is seeing any boobies, I
Re:Well... (Score:2)
The minimum age is sixteen (fourteen states.) No juvenile younger than seventeen at the time his crime was committed has been executed in the United States in over thirty years. Age Requirements for the Death Penalty and the Execution of Juveniles [deathpenaltyinfo.org]
Is...showing a video clip of her in a game considered commercial use?..Her image is...being used as a minor reward i
Re:Well... (Score:2)
The minimum age is sixteen (fourteen states.) No juvenile younger than seventeen at the time his crime was committed has been executed in the United States in over thirty years. Age Requirements for the Death Penalty and the Execution of Juveniles
Ok, 16 then. That's still under 18. How does that change my point?
I think you have answered your own question.
No, if you read the links you posted, all of the examples are of someone's image being used in advertisements or endorsements. This is neither.
Re:Well... (Score:3, Interesting)
There's a point at which even a teenager should know the difference between right and wrong - wrong including posing nude and then signing papers claiming to be 18 years old (unless it was the stupidest company on the planet that had the releases drawn up, said releases would have a statement of age and would include her birthdate).
Bottom line: The game is most likely crap (I've never heard a good
Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
She was 17 years old running around topless on a beach because she wanted people to look at her cute little titties. And now she's bitching and whining and suing over it.
You may believe that people should be able to do any damn fool thing they want with no repercussions, but that's an unreasonable belief. Real life doesn't work that way.
The very idea that one would be "tarnished forever" for running around partially nude is nonsense in and of itself.
Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Re:Well... (Score:1)
So should you have to send high school records to colleges you apply to?
The concept of legal minority is more an exception than a rule. Children are expected to be model citizens at younger and younger ages.
Re:Well... (Score:1)
Re:Well... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's most likely something along the lines of "Mom and Dad found out I was in the game so now we all have to act like good Christians and sue the world over to prevent the tarnishing of our reputation."
It does irritate me when people try to make themselves look better by professing that they attend church, and it's ironic (in a very disturbing way) when it is used as part of a lawsuit who's purpose is to prove that the individual at hand should not be held accountable for their actions.
I understand the LAW protects a 17 year old from being an idiot, but lets not kid ourselves and assume that a 17 year old girl didn't know flashing your breasts around town (or in a video game) was probably not a very good idea. And if she was worried about tarnishing her reputation, it seems that bringing a very high-profile lawsuit against some very high-profile companies is going to make this whole thing quite public and will probably cause the game to be far more successful than it otherwise would have been...even if it only gets to exist on the black market from here on out.
Re:Well... (Score:2)
It does irritate me when people try to make themselves look better by professing that they attend church...
Most churches profess forgiveness, so it's a lame excuse anyway. They shouldn't need to hide this to be good Christians in the future, and hiding it won't undo her actions anyway. Not only that, but nu
Re:Well... (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
What you say is true. The churches that truly try to follow Jesus should be the first ones to forgive. Everybody screws up. The pastor at a former church of mine had a hobby of breaking and entering when he was a teenager.
This depends upon the conte
Re:Well... (Score:1, Flamebait)
Attending church just makes them look like bigotted idiots. Look at what the church does.
After attending Trinity Christian Academy from kindergarten,making good grades, doing well in every way, and paying a lot in tuition to go to private school, the school kicked him out [washingtontimes.com] just before graduation because they found out he was gay. That's your christian values.
Of course, the catholics are no better.
Re:Well... (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm sad that you view the faith this way. I'm also sad for the 18,000 members of my Christian non-catholic church who donate well over nine million dollars a year, 92% of which ends up in community housing projects (of which the participating members do not get paid to participate), drug rehabilitation, counseling and support for the sexually abused, couselling and support for inner city kids to prevent gang violence. 7% goes to actually
Re:Well... (Score:1, Troll)
That's your prerogative. Feel free to waste time in any way you see fit.
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Re:Well... (Score:1)
However, I agree with him. The majority of religious catholics I've met (and I was raised in religious school until college) are just horrible people. Holier than thou pukes, if I can be so blunt.
However, the true majority of that religion are the sheep. The ones that show up every Sunday, sit in church for an hour and get thier golden ticket into heaven, and then leave and do whatever they want, irrespective of thier "beliefs".
You will undoubtably see the worst
Re:Well... (Score:1)
Re:Well... (Score:1)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
After attending Trinity Christian Academy from kindergarten,making good grades, doing well in every way, and paying a lot in tuition to go to private school, the school kicked him out just before graduation because they found out he was gay. That's your christian values.
Did you even read the article? First sentence:
It's not just "because he's gay."
Re:Well... (Score:1, Flamebait)
[ Snip anti-religous ranting... ]
All churches are evil. (Sorry mom - it's true. Yours is no exception.)
Your post is a great example how you don't need to go to church to be bigotted.
PS: Muslims attend a mosque. Christians attend a church. According to tradition, the split between those-who-would-become Muslims and those-who-would-become Christians would have taken place over 3500 years ago, so there has been plenty of time to figure out that Christians and Muslims aren't the same religion. It
The cynical/conspiracy theorist... (Score:4, Interesting)
What? So I'm a pervert. At least I'm open about it.
Re:The cynical/conspiracy theorist... (Score:2)
Sort of like growing up thinking I had to not let anybody know that I like pc games.
Lawers are so short-sighted... (Score:5, Funny)
I'm surprised they were so short-sighted:
They should sue the maker of the digital camera used to take the picture of the girl.
If they used a scanner and a traditional camera, they should sue both the maker of the scanner and the camera. Double the dollars!
How about suing the DVD Consortium because they produced the scandard by which the disc used to distribute the content contained the illegal picture.
Too much? More realistic:
Jail all of the end-users because they now possess child-pornography.
Sue the ESRB
One can argue that because MS, Sony et. al. have put controls on their console allowing them to essentially declare what can and cannot run on it (without a mod-chip of course), that they "sanctioned" rather than just simply "allowed" this to take place...
Of course, we can expect that Sony, MS et. al. will probably be far more conservative in deciding what is or isn't allowed to operate on their systems from here on out. I may not agree with the content of the game, but it'll shame when all of the software is dumbed down so as not to offend even the most conservative among us.
But the cynic in me has to ask the question...if this succeeds: What happens when a slick lawyer is able to confuse a judge and a jury into drawing the conclusion that the OS/product not only "is" a clearing-house, but legally "must operate as" a clearing-house for the applications running on it. Do they sue all of the Linux programmers when Linux fails to block something illegal or offensive?
Re:Lawers are so short-sighted... (Score:3, Informative)
Sony was not sued because a Playstation can play this game.
Sony was sued because they published the game, and the game developer contracted for them. They are thus technically the representative of a child pornographer and publishers of child pornography.
Frankly, I'm surprised Sony was willing to publish so stupid a game. Anyway, they should know you have to be extra careful with releases on content like this. Sony wouldn't've had legal liability if they didn't act as
Re:Lawers are so short-sighted... (Score:2)
You may be right. That still doesn't exactly explain what role (other than the aforementioned) Microsoft played in this.
The article states: "developer Top Heavy Studios, and platform holders Sony and Microsoft, for whose PS2 and Xbox consoles the game is available"
So if the article is correct (and at this point I can't find anything that defines the situation differently), it seems pretty clear that they are being sued as platform holders re
Re:Lawers are so short-sighted... (Score:2)
The same. All major game console makers have a policy of licensing, authorizing, and publishing games for their consoles. The PS2 versions were published by Sony, the Xbox versions by Microsoft. The publishers had the option to go the PC route - open up the programming interface and make their platform simply a tool. But no, they had to approve it, mint it, market it...and they thus took responsibility fo
Re:Lawers are so short-sighted... (Score:2)
Re:Lawers are so short-sighted... (Score:2)
Except now it'll be a collector's item!
Re:Lawers are so short-sighted... (Score:5, Interesting)
RTA. Neither Sony nor Microsoft published the game. Take-Two's The Gathering publishes the game. The role Sony and Microsoft have is basically to see if the game is essentially 'bug free', ie it won't cause their console to burst into flames. They usually don't care about the content or the quality of the game itself, just whether or not it'll destroy their hardware.
Suing Sony and Microsoft here is like me suing a sports store where I bought those Adidas sneakers who got tangled up and caused me to fall, and scar my knees.
From the article: Why? Because the woman in question was only 17 at the time, and therefore legally incapable of giving her consent to be in The Guy Game, let alone half naked.
If she was a minor, what the frig' was she doing there, naked? I'm sure whoever was shooting checked their ages at the time (no one's going to be stupid enough NOT to). She must have had an illegal ID at hand (probably, its spring break, she was probably there drinking too). Being 17 doesn't make you stupid.
Re:Lawers are so short-sighted... (Score:2)
Re:Lawers are so short-sighted... (Score:1, Insightful)
Both Sony and Microsoft have to approve the content of the game first before it receives their approvals. First when the game is submited (general
Re:Lawers are so short-sighted... (Score:2)
I also kinda take issue with Sony and Microsoft being sued, though they're doing a tiny bit more than you suggest. A license with either one comes with (at least): A development kit, development samples (so you have a place to start), t
Obligatory quote (Score:2)
But seriously, the game description of half naked spring breakers that reward you by showing you their boobs for answering trivia questions reminds me of those tetris clones (porntris?) where the filled rows became part of a hardocore image.
No thank you. If I want to see "Girls Gone Wild", I'll just check out the latest video and save myself the trouble.
Re:Obligatory quote (Score:2)
Ah, the irony (Score:5, Interesting)
Hurrah! for the law.
Re:Ah, the irony (Score:1)
Re:Ah, the irony (Score:1)
Re:Ah, the irony (Score:2)
Not necessarily. 17 at the time, in the spring. She started college way early, then.
Lots of high school kids go to spring break
she's smart enough to sue
She, and her parents.
Curious (Score:2)
I am suing (Score:5, Funny)
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews
(Remove stupid spacing)
too bad so sad... yeah, right (Score:3, Insightful)
I was always confused on this... (Score:2)
I know with personal security cameras you can't have their view extend onto another persons private property, but if it gets the street in front of your house then that's ok. Say there was a naked 17 year old girl standing there in the street... I'd say it's obvious that the person who owns the camera (and thus took the picture) wouldn't be in trouble, but someone who took that tape and tried
Re:I was always confused on this... (Score:2)
(Aside from that, while you can take pictures of people in public places, you cannot commercially exploit them outside of a news context without that person's permission. An
Location shoots (Score:1)
NO...at least not any more. Recently I went to the local rollercade and a TV show was being shot there that night (it happens on occasion). It is a public place, and the shoot was happening during regular business activity. During the shoot and for about an hour afterwards one of the production crew was cheasing down EACH AND EVERY PERSON who was not part of the cast to sign a release form
They Are Just Boobs (Score:2)
Everyone else has already made the comment, if she was only 17 why was she there? Wouldn't it be nice if she was drunk in the game? Because God knows how much harm comes to girls that show nipples versus girls who drink too much.
Re:They Are Just Boobs (Score:2)
Re:They Are Just Boobs (Score:1)
Don't you ever speak of breasts in that way again!
Re:You think the US laws are stupid?? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:You think the US laws are stupid?? (Score:2)
Re:You think the US laws are stupid?? (Score:1)
-Diomedes
Re:You think the US laws are stupid?? (Score:2)
In some uneducated countries it's legal to have sex with even younger girls, as long as you're married with her... Guess what country it is I'm thinking about...?
Re:You think the US laws are stupid?? (Score:2)
Age of consent for girls is 13 in Japan. They can't get married till 16 though.
Re:You think the US laws are stupid?? (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm
Re:You think the US laws are stupid?? (Score:2)
Still, you do seem to be calling the Japanese uneducated, since presumably having sex inside wedlock is better than outside; unless you are anti-marriage for some reason.
p.s. Didn't know about *cough*the us*cough* girls having sex with their wives- how very liberal :-)
Should I even ask? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Should I even ask? (Score:2)
Re:Should I even ask? (Score:2)
Must have been slow because of slashdotting.
Too bad that shit's all Flash so I can't save the pics directly.
Re:Should I even ask? (Score:2)
Hey, I'm just curious! ;-)
Anyone have a link to pictures? (Score:1, Redundant)
Eh...Why is this even on here? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Eh...Why is this even on here? (Score:2)
You can sue anyone you want.
Winning is a different story.
Re:Eh...Why is this even on here? (Score:2)
Why do you think new power tools--and some non-power tools, look at a hammer in the hardware store sometime--come with warning labels about safe operation? It's precisely so someone doesn't go and cut their arm off and sue, saying "It doesn't say in the manual not to cut my arm off!"
Because im Bored.. (Score:1)
SO - Because im bored, I decided to take a look at the website (pointed out in the website) that supposedly showcases this teenage girl along with her real name. Any speculation on which one she is? I think the blond, second from the left, is a good candidate.
Maybe this should be a poll for the week? =)
http://www.theguygame.com/index-enter.htm [theguygame.com]
Future Gartner research paper title (Score:2)
Pics and video (Score:4, Informative)
and here's the Gamespot pics, [gamespot.com]
and here's PS2 pics, [gamespy.com]
and here's XBOX pics, [ign.com]
and here's XBOX videos, [ign.com]
and here's PS2 videos. [gamespy.com]
Can anyone figure out who's the girl in question? Or I guess we can just download it all, and then see what pics and vids mysteriously vanish from the websites in the next day or two. heh.
-
This happen to girls gone wild (Score:1)
Also someone else said they are just boobs...
Fake ID, certainly. (Score:1)
So now the question is, does the crew have a scanned copy of her license(most likely) and what does this do for their defense in regards to contractual law and their responsiblity to obey criminal law? Too bad we'll never really know the outcome a