Former Turkish DMOZ Editor Draws 10 Months In Jail 666
makne writes "H. Ertas, a Turkish editor of the Open Directory Project (www.dmoz.org) has been sentenced to 10 months in prison after being found guilty of editing a category about the Kurdish Workers Party (PKK). Ertas's lawyer, Suna Coskun, explained that his client had worked as a voluntary editor at the Open Directory Project during his studies at the Euphrat-University and had been responsible for the Kurdish category. At the same time he became interested in Kurds and undertook his own research into the subject. As a voluntary editor, he had sorted the directory submissions but could not be responsible for their content. Therefore there could be no penalty under international law, according to Coskun. His activities could in no way be understood as 'support for a terrorist organisation' and thus Ertas' release was appropriate. The court sentenced Ertas to 10 months in prison and a fine of 416 million Turkish lire ($293). The sentence is not eligible for probation." (Read on for more.)
By email, makne writes "I don't know the editor personally, but the editor was first arrested two years ago, then released on parole until now. Members of the editor community
have tried to help him in any way they can, with no apparent success. The editor resigned from the ODP in 2002."
Makne also provided this link to a summary (from the Kurdish point of view) of earlier attempts to stifle Kurdish sites, including a campaign to have DMOZ's then-parent company Netscape remove the Kurdish category from DMOZ.
Protest (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe that organizations like DMOZ should have the ability to quickly react, perhaps in protest, to situations like this one.
For example, rigorous semantic information attached to every DMOZ record would allow the DMOZ community to suspend or flag all information related to the Turkish government, in protest of the current situation. Such a capability could easily be abused or taken too far, which is why it should be reserved only for situations which have direct effect on the organization (and/or its editors, in the case of DMOZ).
With enough open (as in speech) organizations touching enough people in the world, both major and minor misbehavior by governments around the would could be brought to light in this way.
that stinks (Score:5, Insightful)
This is where wikipedia may have problems too (Score:5, Insightful)
For example the slashdot article in the last months, where there were misinformous facts inserted. How many of these can pile up over time? If a country is suppressing all knowledge of what it really has done, and tying in information on what it wants to be seen as happening then the slow blend from one information into a misinformation can be complete.
And these are self referencing things, too, so, you find wikipedia and dmoz links and maybe some other online encyclopedias all combined together with misinformation.
How will one in the end sort it out?
The nets biggest online nude anime gallery's [sharkfire.net]
Re:Protest (Score:5, Insightful)
We need a usable freenet! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Guys please! (Score:4, Insightful)
what does that have to do with editing public information about PKK? do you really think that's going to do the slightest bit of good?
Re:Guys please! (Score:5, Insightful)
Turkey in the EU (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Guys please! (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as the US acknowleding the PKK as a terrorist organization, that doesn't always mean anything. Our outgoing secretary of education called the nations largest teachers group a "terrorist organization". So you'll understand if I'm a little skeptical of what the US government is saying these days.
Re:Guys please! (Score:1, Insightful)
The ANC *did* commit many act of terror, you ignorant sack of dog shit. Something else you seem to have no clue about. What, because they were anti-apartheid they were somehow excused for their murdering ways? Fuck them and fuck your worthless ignorant dumb ass.
I love how some of you other oxygen wasting shit stains have taken your anti-Americanism to ppathological levels where you'll automatically believe a terrorist organization's version of everything ovver the US gummint's version. The terrorists of this world laugh themselves silly over cockgobbling appeasers like you.
Re:Guys please! (Score:5, Insightful)
If this is what your government does to a web editor, what do you think they do to their journalists?
Happens all to frequently around the world (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember, Freedom can't protect itself. [aclu.org]
Re:Turkey in the EU (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, you can argue all you want about PKK being terrorist organisation or not, but this is just the issue of free speech! The guy wasn't sentenced for being a part of bombing or being a part of the plot to bomb anyone. He was sentenced for being editor of site that had public information about some organisation.
If this isn't fucking censorship and criminal prosecution for exercising free speech, I don't know what is.
Robert
Re:Guys please! (Score:1, Insightful)
So go ahead do a head to head count.
Re:Turkey in the EU (Score:5, Insightful)
Get the EU Human Rights Court involved (Score:5, Insightful)
With the political preassure on the Turkish government, this guy might actually have a chance if enough people raise hell.
I personally will write letter to the court about this case, and I will also contact Amnesty International in Sweden about this.
I urge other Slashdot readers to take similar action.
Re:Guys please! (Score:2, Insightful)
Women and children (Score:5, Insightful)
What's with the age-old "they killed women and children" stuff ?
In war and terror, women and children *kill*.
In war and terror, women and children get killed.
If I were an Israeli borderguard and a woman strapped with explosives runs towards me, I would... kill them.
If I were a Sudan military or somesuch and a rebel child points an AK47 at me ready to fire, I would... shoot them in the legs, hopefully, but good chance I'd aim for the chest due to the larger surface area and it'd probably... kill them.
These particular 'women and children' statements are hollow when put into perspective this way, in my opinion.
Now you may not share that point of view, or you may point out that these are "innocent women and children". Perhaps or, in the case of terrorist attacks, likely so. But does that mean the men were not innocent ? Does it mean that the loss of their life is somehow not as disturbing/devastating as that of the women and children ?
Just my thoughts...
Re:Turkey in the EU (Score:5, Insightful)
MOD PARENT UP!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Get the EU Human Rights Court involved (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:My grandfather was an IRA terrorist (Score:3, Insightful)
So, I agree. "Terrorist" is a very subjective term.
(Don't get me wrong, I consider them as war heroes, but this was a point my history teacher in HS brought to us, to make us think beyond clear cut facts)
Re:Guys please! (Score:2, Insightful)
""The ANC and its organs as well as the PAC and its armed formations...committed gross violations of human rights in the course of their political activities and armed struggles, for which they are morally and politically accountable," the report says.
The commission noted it was ANC policy that the loss of civilian life should be avoided, but said operations by its armed wing uMkhonto weSizwe "ended up killing fewer security force members than civilians".
In the case of the Pan-Africanist Congress (PAC) - a liberation movement which split from the ANC over ideological differences - the report focusses on the activities of its armed wing, Apla, which targeted white civilians and black leaders loyal to the government.
"
From BBC [bbc.co.uk]
Re:And this country... (Score:4, Insightful)
europeans sure are sanctimonius bastards, I guess your shit don't stink huh?
Re:Guys please! (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, _I'll_ defend the PKK (I'm neither a turk nor a kurd, though). The kurds in turkey are facing gradual annihilation -- some of them have attempted to fight back, without much success (they are heavily outnumbered and don't have much money). What on earth does the rest of the world expect them to do? Just die extra-quietly so that nobody is bothered?
The issue of the war on the Kurds is the most important. Followed by the problem of Turks who don't join in the general hate being persecuted or imprisoned. The issue of holding an editor accountable for the links edited, while worrying, is absolutely insignificant by comparison.
Re:Who Did What When How? (Score:5, Insightful)
If jackboot thug out there wants to arrest me for "implicitly supporting" the content of any of these links, feel free to abuse the PATRIOT ACT in order to force slashdot.org to reveal the IP address associated with this post, and in turn my ISP will reveal my name and home address associated with the DHCP lease (because I didn't bother to post through an anonymous proxy(s)). tinfoil_hat_mode off.
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Re:My grandfather was an IRA terrorist (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Protest (Score:5, Insightful)
Since you bring up up germany; do you sincerely beleive that a law designed to stop antisemitic propaganda is just as bad as a law that, say, limits the civil liberties of an ethnic minority like jews (or kurds for that matter).
Kurds are an ethnic minority, like jews were in nazi germany - a Kurd cannot decide to stop being a kurd, no less than I can stop being a caucasean.
On another note I fail to see how the german laws you cite are any more stifling to free speech than laws prohibiting libel. Neonazism is tightly coupled to malicious defamation of jews - according to the laws of most countries that constitutes libel. Mentioning neonazism explicitly in the law just serves to simplify libel lawsuits.
Or do you beleive that libel laws in america are morally equivalent to limiting the civil liberties of an ethnic minority?
Re:We need a usable freenet! (Score:2, Insightful)
If Turkey followed America's example, this guy would have been rotting in a camp in a swamp, somewhere.
The chances are he will be getting out of there in 3 months. It is still unjust but not the end of the world.
Re:EU (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Protest (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember, that many despicable crimes of yesterday are normal things today. Like publishing research opposing church doctrine, advocating slavery abolition, homosexual relationships and extramarital sex. And remember, that many yesterday's terrorists are today's war heroes of new nations that fought for their freedom.
Even when everybody agrees that child abuse, paedophilia is such despicable crime, and there are no chances of it changing in the future (apart from age of consent, legal tests for consent etc), I don't see how anyone would be hurt by someone advocating paedophilia, or disseminating synthetic paedophiliac images.
Now, the cases like racism, terrorism or similar usually are (almost criminal) stupidity, but people have right to be stupid too. I mean, if stupidity was a crime, then most of the politicians and voting public would end up in jail in an instant
Robert
PS Yes, I am libertarian too (among other things). Did libertarian advocacy become a crime in some jurisdiction I frequent?
Re:Guys please! (Score:4, Insightful)
Clueless, meet the KGB-funded ANC, their "necklace of death", bomber Nelson and Winnie's "football team". ANC, bomber Nelson, Winnie, meet Clueless.
The ANC were terrorists, particularly nasty, ruthless and primitively murderous ones even, there's no question about it. Nowadays they're just incompetent and racist politicians, destroying a country.
Re:Guys please! (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm sure that even if the US Government is not Civilised, there are a great deal of Americans that are.
Re:Sorry guys (Score:2, Insightful)
No, he just used car bombs outside civilian bars and attacked a nuclear power plant...
Re:Protest (Score:2, Insightful)
Of course that is correct; you can, and should, legislate acting upon ethics and morals that are different from the norms of the rest of society. That is why it's not illegal to agree with al-queda or the neonazis, only to actively support them.
I interpreted grandparents post differently though.
Re:I am an American citizen living in Turkey... (Score:1, Insightful)
The Islamic Selçuk/Ottoman/Turkish culture was arguably the world's highest culture during times that Euope was wallowing in the filth of its own Dark and Middle Ages.
The Turkish culture maybe was the world's highest culture while western Europe "was wallowing in the filth of its own Dark and Middle Ages". But they "achieved" that through destroying even more advanced Byzantine, Serbian and Bulgarian cultures.
Re:Protest (Score:5, Insightful)
I was forced to remove a promotional trailer for a cartoon about an inept Luftwaffe pilot (fritzthefox.com) from one of their kiosks at a convention because the aircraft in it had swastikas painted on their tails (which they did in real life).
I found the whole thing ludicrous. I know these laws are meant to prevent the resurgence of one of the worst hate groups that ever existed, but the law is more about fear than it is prevention.
The fact is, the Nazi party could never rise again. The next evil empire will not be led by a bunch of tatooed skinheads. The next time they start herding people into camps, if will be under a different flag, for different reasons, and everyone will fall in line in the name of patriotism and self-defense.
Banning a symbol will accomplish nothing, except to wipe away any recorded memory of the last witch hunt.
Re:Let me be the first (Score:1, Insightful)
There's not that many years ago that you couldn't legally in Turkey even call yourself a Kurd - instead you were expected to call yourself a Turk. Similarly teaching Kurdish language and culture used to be illegal. Government sanctioned assassinations were not uncommon. I personally know at least one Turkish journalist who got asylum in Norway on the basis that he had written about the phlight of the Kurds, and then waited for 7 years to get Norwegian citizenship so that he could go back to Turkey and keep writing (the idea being that Turkey is very concerned about doing anything to people that aren't Turkish citizens - particularly now that they want EU membership).
Turkey is still an oppressive police state. It systematically oppress a large part of it's people, and not only Kurds but anyone that don't agree with the current system of government (which would include communists and fundamental muslims alike).
The only potential good part of getting Turkey into the EU is that they'd have to start harmonizing their laws with those of the EU too.
Sounds like simple enforced censorship (Score:3, Insightful)
"you write/write/publish about subject xyz, we jail you'
Re:Protest (Score:4, Insightful)
Really? Like, honest-to-God you don't? Huh.
Nazism = libel. Well, I suppose you could make the argument, analogizing from specifici individuals to an entire groupassuming everything national socialism says is anti-semitic propaganda, which like, I guess 0.6 is approx. equal to 1, in some places.
But: nice machinations, though. Really. Original poster points out that suppression of politically-charged speech happens on a continuum and that some of those countries who would condemn Turkey are only a little bit further on the left of it. That somehow turns into a test of hatred for anti-semitism. And from all these threads you manage a nice, stout strawman, all prickly with delight.
I call rhetorical shenanigans.
Re:Er, dude, the US does this. (Score:2, Insightful)
Hicks' incarceration is not a free speech issue - at all - it's contentious because he's not an Afghani (sp?) citizen. Either way, he's an enemy combatant, not an editor.
(N.B. All of what I've said is based off the Wikipedia article [wikipedia.org], if it is faulty than my analysis of the situation is likely to be as well.)
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lds
Re:Who Did What When How? (Score:3, Insightful)
Turkey does have some serious human rights problems, and terror problems, and many other problems. As it moves towards the EU we can only hope that it continues to improve on that (eg it abolished the death penalty)
Not that EU countries all have a great record either. The UK has foreigners imprisoned indefinitely without trial for example.
Anonimity (Not entirely OT) (Score:5, Insightful)
Slashdot needs to start posting more of these articles from around the world. The less astute among us will still cling to their lack of sensibilities on this subject, but people must start to realize that people really are persecuted for unpopular opinions (Your terrorist is my freedom fighter).
The more pervasive we make anonymity and cryptography everywhere, the easier it will be to protect people that need or deserve to be protected.
Re:Women and children (Score:2, Insightful)
That and the fact that society sees men as expendible.
Re:Protest (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Protest (Score:2, Insightful)
Of course not. Dubya isn't a skinhead!
Re:Protest (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Protest (Score:1, Insightful)
The flag in question is the stars and stripes and the official reason is "terrorism."
Re:Protest (Score:3, Insightful)
Or do you beleive that libel laws in america are morally equivalent to limiting the civil liberties of an ethnic minority?
American defamation law does not protect large groups of people. To succesfully sue someone for libel (or slander), you have to defame them personally. Members of very small groups of people can sometimes sue for defamation, but "Jews", "Blacks", and "Honkies" do not have a valid claim when someone says something bad about their respective group.
This underlines an important distinction between American understandings of free speech and European understandings of it. The American understanding is that you can never limit political expression because of what is expressed. (Not meaning to imply that we have a perfect record or anything.)
Expressions of racism or hatred are just that, expressions. If you let government decide what expressions are allowable and what are not, then you have something more than a government... you have a Thought Police.
Re:I am an American citizen living in Turkey... (Score:2, Insightful)