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Spam United States Your Rights Online

429,000 Do-Not-Call Complaints 409

Posted by michael from the check-the-number-and-dial-again dept.
The Ghetto Imp writes "Is the do-not-call list working for you? According to CNN Money, there have been over 429,000 complaints filed with the FTC over do-not-call violations. The list is incredibly popular, with apparently some 62 million numbers registered. Apparently the worst offenders are the Credit Foundation of America, and our friends at AT&T. In an era where companies use computers to spam pre-recorded messages through our phone lines, does the FTC have the teeth to make unsolicited calls a thing of the past? At $11,000 per violation, let's hope so!"
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429,000 Do-Not-Call Complaints More

429,000 Do-Not-Call Complaints

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  • Working for me... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Grant29 ( 701796 ) * on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:15AM (#9528890) Homepage
    I was one of the people that signed up for the Do Not Call list as soon as it went live on the Internet. To date, I rarely get an unsolicited calls. They happen so rarely that I get suprised when I get a call. All-in-all, I'm pretty happy with my results.

    --
    11 Gmail invitations availiable [retailretreat.com]

    • Re:Working for me... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by I8TheWorm ( 645702 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:19AM (#9528958) Journal
      My experience has been the same. I don't recall getting any calls other than from non-profit organizations in quite some time now. And 429,000 complaints in 62,000,000 registered numbers is a mere 0.69%.... I'd say that's a pretty low noise ratio for the first run of this thing.

      • Re:Working for me... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by elmegil ( 12001 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:22AM (#9529006) Homepage Journal
        Yep. Pretty good numbers. I'm one of those 429,000; I had one idiotic company try to call me and claim that the courts and stopped enforcement. Of course that was a few days after congress turned it back on, and as soon as I pointed that out and asked again for their company name they hung up. I love caller ID...

        But that's the only one who's called me so far in violation. I've gotten a couple of charity calls, and I generally give them hell too, but they aren't bound to follow the list so there ya go.

        • I'm ok with the charities, at least the honest ones, because the sheer volume of annoying calls in the evening has come way down.

          Did you get a chance to report that company that bothered you?
          • I don't think honest charities use telemarketing, because the success rate is too low for them to afford it. The only ones that can afford to use this unsuccessful form of solicitation are the barely legal charities that give only about 20% of donations to the actual cause they claim to represent. This is why I hang up on all telemarketers, "charity" or not.
        • You know the worst kind of charity call? Door to door collectors for the Police Benevolency Association.

          I got one the other day -- cop in full blues and badge walks up to my door, rings the bell. Meanwhile, I'm upstairs clearing my browser cache, closing my FTP and KaZaa windows, dismounting my AES drives and trying like hell to get a Wipe Free Space pass started. I get down there and whip out my best "wossaproblemofficer," and he's like "Oh nothing, I was wondering if you wanted to give to the PBA. I got these sweet window stickers."

          Needless to say, I was pissed. But he got my $20. I'm a sucker for a window sticker.

          • My Police/Fire Charity Stratedgy (Score:5, Insightful)

            by swb ( 14022 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @01:26PM (#9530668)
            [ring][ring]

            Them: "Hi, I'm Tyrone, and I'm calling from the $Police_Fire_Charity. Did you know that $Police_Fire personnel are great guys and don't any benefits at all? How would you like to help?"

            Me: "Well, Tyrone, I've already donated this year, three times so far and I plan to give again in the fall."

            Them: "Mr. $Mispronounced_Lastname, you've been giving to one of those other charities. We represent the real $Policy_Fire_Charity -- how about helping us out with $20?"

            Me: "No, no, I'm positive I've donated three times already. I even have the cancelled checks. Let's see here, this big one's made out to "Hennepin County", the other to "Minnesota Revenue Service" and the third and largest to "Internal Revenue Service." I'm sure that all of those donations cover all the money I'm giving to law enforcement."

            The rest boils down to an amusing argument with the high school dropout on the other end of the line about whose benefits are better, his (none), mine, or the cops. I'm actually pretty sure mine are better than both, but the cops around here sure get to retire on a nice pension before I do.

      • Lucky (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Scott Richter ( 776062 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:51AM (#9529383)
        My experience has been the same. I don't recall getting any calls other than from non-profit organizations in quite some time now. And 429,000 complaints in 62,000,000 registered numbers is a mere 0.69%.... I'd say that's a pretty low noise ratio for the first run of this thing.

        I'm on the list, and I get just as many calls as ever. But they're not selling things now, they're just doing surveys, which are allowed by the damned law. Why they are exempted I have no idea - all they're doing is using people for free labor.

      • Re:Working for me... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by surreal-maitland ( 711954 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @12:19PM (#9529729) Journal
        true, but, as the article says, only about 1 in 100 people call to complain. that brings the figures up to 42,900,000. no matter how stupid people are not to call, that's a much more significant number.

    • Didn't need a "Do Not Call List" (Score:5, Interesting)

      by TrentL ( 761772 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:20AM (#9528980) Homepage
      After two weeks of answering every telemarketing call and saying "Take me off your call list", my phone-spam decreased dramatically. Now that I have just a cell-phone, I *never* get that junk.

      • Re:Didn't need a "Do Not Call List" (Score:5, Interesting)

        by thedillybar ( 677116 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:33AM (#9529140)
        >After two weeks of answering every telemarketing call and saying "Take me off your call list", my phone-spam decreased dramatically.

        Even before the "Do Not Call" list, you could tell telemarketers "don't call back" or "take me off your list". It's actually illegal for them to call back after being told this. If they called repeatedly I would ask for a supervisor and file a complaint with the FTC.

        The Do Not Call list just makes this whole process a lot easier...and more enforceable.

        • Re:Didn't need a "Do Not Call List" (Score:5, Informative)

          by dleifelohcs ( 777508 ) * <jscholefield@@@gmail...com> on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:47AM (#9529325) Homepage
          Even before the "Do Not Call" list, you could tell telemarketers "don't call back" or "take me off your list". It's actually illegal for them to call back after being told this. If they called repeatedly I would ask for a supervisor and file a complaint with the FTC.

          they can only not call you on the very same offer. other people in the household are still viable, new offers (were) still okay, etc.

        • Re:Didn't need a "Do Not Call List" (Score:4, Insightful)

          by jfengel ( 409917 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:51AM (#9529386) Homepage Journal
          I had heard that you had to say "put me on your do not call list"; merely "take me off our list" took you off that list but didn't prevent them from calling via a "different" list. That may be what a sibling post was getting it.

          I dunno if it's true or not; I probably got it off the internet and that's a pretty unreliable source. But I had also found that "take me off your list" dramatically reduced telemarketing calls even before the do-not-call list (which has cut them to almost nil.)

        • Re:Didn't need a "Do Not Call List" (Score:5, Funny)

          by Enigma_Man ( 756516 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @12:30PM (#9529849) Homepage
          I had a window company that kept calling me, and wanting to make an appointment to inspect my windows. I repeatedly asked them to remove me from their list, to no avail. So, I scheduled an appointment the next day at noon, when I wasn't home. So they sent out a truck. I got a call the next evening saying that they had showed up and I wasn't there. I apologized very humbly, and said I would be there tomorrow at noon, which I wasn't. They called back again, and I again apologized, and said for them to come back the next day at noon. That evening was the last I'd ever heard from them, when I asked if they wanted to try again tomorrow at noon, hehe.

          -Jesse

        • Re:Didn't need a "Do Not Call List" (Score:5, Funny)

          by ryanwright ( 450832 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @12:43PM (#9530055)
          It's actually illegal for them to call back after being told this.

          Like they care.

          I had some jerk call me from some company, no idea who it was. He was faking retardation, trying to play on my emotions to sell me something. Talking real slow, stuttering, etc. The conversation went like this:

          Me: "No thank you, please take me off your list."
          Him: "Ohhhhhhkkayyy sirr... I call back tomorrow."
          Me: "No, please take me off your list."
          Him: "Ohhhkayy, I call back tomorrow."
          Me: "No no, please don't call me back tomorrow. I want you to take me off your list. Please don't call me again."
          Him, this time in a perfect normal voice: "OK. I'll talk to you tomorrow! Hahahahaha! (click)."

          Bastard.
        • A good friend of mine (who may read this) got a call from a marketer that went something like this:

          TM: Hello, I'm from $phonecompany, and I'm calling to see if you want to switch your service FR: I don't have a phone here. TM: Oh, I'm sorry *hangs up*

          I still laugh very hard about that one.

          -Jesse

    • Re:Working for me... (Score:5, Funny)

      by dirvish ( 574948 ) <dirvish AT foundnews DOT com> on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:23AM (#9529023) Homepage Journal
      Yeah, I was all amped to be able to threaten callers with that $11,000 fine but I rarely get the chance.
  • If they call me... can I get in on some of that... Please!

  • AT&T (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rjstanford ( 69735 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:16AM (#9528911) Homepage Journal
    I used to work for a telemarketing company doing calls for AT&T's universal card. That's right, if you got bugged during dinner by someone selling you one of their credit cards, I wrote the Informix-4GL app that guided the agent through the sale. Ah, those were the days.

    Anyway, at that time at least, AT&T was very dilligent in requiring that we scrubbed the numbers they gave us against the do not call lists. They were also very focussed on staying within legal calling hours, etc.

    Then again, AT&T has many, many divisions who may or may not talk to each other and could have very different standards. Also, depending on who they outsourced their outbound calling to, they may have gone with a low-cost less competent provider. Both of those would surprise me though - this was one area where they at least used to pride themselves in their quality. Or at least in our quality.

    • Re:AT&T (Score:3, Interesting)

      by jfmiller ( 119037 ) *
      If you are getting calls from AT&T it is most likely because you have a "buisness relationship" with them. At the company I used to work for (small buisness type) an AT&T telemarketer conned the secretary into switching to AT&T Long Distance to spite the fact that we had a two year with huge early termination fee agreement with another company.

      After this big mess was cleared up and the secretary was let go, we asked AT&T to place us on there "Do not call list" and were told that because t

      • Re:AT&T (Score:5, Informative)

        by MarkGriz ( 520778 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @12:24PM (#9529790)
        " we asked AT&T to place us on there "Do not call list" and were told that because they had establish a buisness relationship with us that we could not do this for three years."

        Then AT&T lied to you. This is from the donotcall.gov Business FAQ:

        Q: What about an established business relationship?

        A: A telemarketer or seller may call a consumer with whom it has an established business relationship for up to 18 months after the consumer's last purchase, delivery, or payment - even if the consumer's number is on the National Do Not Call Registry. In addition, a company may call a consumer for up to three months after the consumer makes an inquiry or submits an application to the company. And if a consumer has given a company written permission, the company may call even if the consumer's number is on the National Do Not Call Registry.

        One caveat: if a consumer asks a company not to call, the company may not call, even if there is an established business relationship. Indeed, a company may not call a consumer - regardless of whether the consumer's number is on the registry - if the consumer has asked to be put on the company's own do not call list.
  • "That is a huge number of complaints to be filed for anything," said Jean Ann Fox, Director of Consumer Protection of the Consumer Protection of Federation, told CNN/Money.

    I wasn't aware the Federation had a Director for the Consumer Protection, or even that the Federation existed!

  • AT&T (Score:3, Interesting)

    by GeekGirlie ( 698666 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:17AM (#9528919)
    I thought I remembered reading that the long distance companies, i.e., AT&T, were exempt from the Do-Not-Call list...

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:17AM (#9528926)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Profit (Score:4, Interesting)

      by mfh ( 56 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:25AM (#9529052) Homepage Journal
      > At $11k per violation, assuming all of those are legit, that's over $4 billion in fines. Hopefully they stick it to 'em.

      But then you see, the government is profiting by these violations and the violations will never cease because it's loving tax money. Like speeding tickets.

  • $4,719,000,000 in fines? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dr. Bent ( 533421 ) <ben AT int DOT com> on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:18AM (#9528941) Homepage
    OK, assuming for a moment that each of those complaints in a violation (which I know is a grand overestimation, but stay with me for a second), that makes almost 5 Billion dollars in fines. Where is this money going? Surely the FTC doesn't need 5 billion dollars (or even 1/10th of that) to run the Do-Not-Call list!

    I tell you where it should be going: To the people who filed the complaints. If your complaint was valid...you were illegally called even though you were on the DNC list...you shoulc get a percentage of the fine. Otherwise this money just gets tossed into the great financial landfill that is the U.S. Government, and gets used for some god-only-knows pork barrel project that has nothing to do with telemarketing and consumer privacy.

  • The key to avoid phone spam (Score:4, Insightful)

    by flappinbooger ( 574405 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:18AM (#9528943) Homepage
    Is to just not have a landline phone.

    I have had *only* a cell phone for me and one for my wife for the last year, and it's worked great. We always have a phone with us when we need it, and I haven't had any solicitation calls. Oh, and for internet we use cable.

    • Re:The key to avoid phone spam (Score:4, Insightful)

      by weslocke ( 240386 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:24AM (#9529035)
      My problem is that I have a Sprint PCS phone with text messaging, email, etc.

      And lately I've begun getting damned spam on the thing. Here's an address that has never been given out to anyone, so it's even more annoying.

      Personally I think it's the most annoying thing since they started putting regular commercials mixed in with previews at the theaters. (After all a TV commercial I can understand. That's how they pay their bills. But I just forked over $10 to see a flick, and they're still subjecting me to a freaking Coke commercial?!) /bugger
      • Here's an address that has never been given out to anyone, so it's even more annoying.

        It's not very hard to send spam to mobile phones.

        Just go through (known area code)(random 7 digits)@(wirelessprovider) and ignore all failures

    • This only works if you have decent reception in your home. I live in an old stone house with bad coverage to begin with. I have to go outside every time I get a call on my mobile phone.

  • Wow, I kinda forgot about it but now that I think about it I don't get phone solicitations anymore (except from the exempt businesses like the telephone companies). What happened to the disastorous economic effects that the telemarketers warned of?

  • An inside perspective. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:19AM (#9528967)
    I work for a company that does Telemarketing and just this morning loaded our latest version of the Federal "Do Not Call" list. I completely agree with the intent of the law and I am on the list myself, but the implementation thereof is atrocious.

    In order to even access the list, we must go through several hours of online paperwork that is highly redundant and of no real use in the end.

    We would love to automatically download the list on a daily basis and ensure that no one that doesn't want to receive calls is contacted. We can't: The site used to download the list doesn't give a list of URLs for different area codes and said URLs change daily with random strings appended to prevent automated downloads. The server is set to allow only 2 simultaneous HTTP connections from a given IP, so downloading the 48 area codes we subscribe to takes roughly an hour, rather than the two or three minutes it used to when we could do many simultaneous downloads. And beyond that, you have to contact the helpdesk for them to reauthorize your download in the event of a download failure. That's right, if something times out or gets corrupted, we have to email the help desk and wait 24-48 hours for a reply before we can come into compliance.

    We work very hard to comply with every state and federal do not call law, but none of the state lists are as difficult to access or as intentionally difficult to automatically deploy as the Fed's. Its a great law - but it would benefit all of us if the Feds made it easier to comply.

    • Re:An inside perspective. (Score:5, Funny)

      by FauxPasIII ( 75900 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:30AM (#9529106)
      I think the unspoken hope for a lot of us is that eventually the entire telemarketing industry will be marginalized or
      outright shut down by this law. Sounds like it's working quite nicely.

      No personal offense intended, by the way, I know you're just trying to put food on your family.

    • Re:An inside perspective. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by gcaseye6677 ( 694805 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:32AM (#9529123)
      Cry me a river. I think its great that the law makes things very difficult for telemarketers. Now we can kill off the few that remain. This is an industry that caused its own death due to relentless abuse of the public. Had they made a good faith effort to not call people who requested to not be called, these regulations would not have been necessary.
    • The list is only updated four times a year. If you place yourself on the list, it won't make it onto the distributed list until the next quarter.

      At least, in Indiana... I'm pretty sure it's the same way for the federal list.

      Know what's really effective in getting companies to comply? As soon as you get a telemarketer call (and you're on the list), I start the conversation with "This is an $11,000 call for your company, because once we're done here I will be filing a complaint witht he FTC."
    • There has to be a paper trail of liability with such a list. Else, the people who choose to ignore the repercussions of the FTC would get the list as a device of WHO to call. Free calling list of number that you know have people on the other side.

    • Re:An inside perspective. (Score:5, Funny)

      by bnenning ( 58349 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @01:01PM (#9530320)
      In order to even access the list, we must go through several hours of online paperwork that is highly redundant and of no real use in the end.

      Yes, it's just awful when people's time is wasted.
  • OMG! I totally agree that AT&T are the worst offenders. After switching my mother without her permission, they give me a call even though I have an unlisted number and am on the list. Then they argued with me when I told them I didn't want to switch!! Ex

  • I'm not surprised about AT&T (Score:5, Funny)

    by suso ( 153703 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:20AM (#9528978) Journal
    A few years ago I got a call from one of their marketers trying to switch my long distance service and I interupted him by saying

    Me: "You know, I'm not interested ..."
    Him: "Well fuck you then"
    Me: "What? fuck me?"
    Him: *Loudly* "Yeah, fuck you!"
    Me: "You got to be kidding me, you called me from AT&T"
    Him: "Fuck you" *Hangs up*

    At first I thought it was a prank call, but then I remembered that it had all the right initial sounds that a telemarketer call would have like the initial pause and sounds made while the computer connects me with the marketer.
  • We signed up for the "Do Not Call" list as soon as it was available.

    However, that apparently hasn't stopped the calls. While I wouldn't know (I don't get home until 6:30 to 7), my family says they apparently get them. According to them, they're not non-profit orgs or anything, they're "would you like x credit card" or something.

    My family only brings up the "we're on the do not call list" like every-other time; causing the people the immediately hang up the phone.

    I keep telling them, "find out who they
  • 429,000 x $11,000 per violation = roughly $4.7 billion in potential fines. Now if only there were do-not-spam fine like this. The government could collect enough money to solve that $8 trillion deficit.

  • Caller ID... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Geek_3.3 ( 768699 )
    Heck, I just use Caller ID. If the number is unknown or 1-800 something, then you can go and screw yourself. If it is important enough, they will leave a message.

    I just hate putting my ANYTHING on a list of some sort... [puts on tin foil hat]

    • Re:Caller ID... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Lumpy ( 12016 )
      you want to know what is more fun??

      set up a linux box with a copy of VOCP running and a good voice modem that is supported.

      you can have it answer based on the caller ID string. all non-number displayed calls go to a no message mailbox that starts with the 3 tone disconnected tones, then a hello? ..... we are not interested, put this number on your do not call list"

      this works fine. I get some that actually comply with the law and have their number unblocked, I simply add that number to the database of u
  • I havn't gotten a single cold call since I got rid of my land line phone about a year ago. Before that, it was at least one a day, not including voice mail spam. I also have not paid a phone bill either (my work pays for my cell).

    You know what? Its better this way. I would get most pissed off when I would get telemarkers looking for "Philip Wong" (I am not asian), some of them only spoke Chinese. I got my phone spam, and his for 2 years.

    I don't miss it.

  • Fun with telemarketers (Score:5, Funny)

    by EnlargeYourPens ( 790933 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:23AM (#9529010)
    Do what I do. When they call, speak very faintly until they turn their volume up. Then turn the speakerphone on at the base unit and touch the antennas together for some high pitched feedback. Works for me. And yes I'm happy with my long distance.

    • Re:Fun with telemarketers (Score:5, Funny)

      by BMonger ( 68213 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:32AM (#9529124)
      If I have nothing better to do I intently listen and ask very inquisitive questions. I spent a good 15 minutes on the phone with some insurance place once. I then said something to the effect of, "Which insurance company is this again?" to which they replied, "This is ." to which I replied, "Oh. I already have insurance through you." Then that was the end of that.

    • Re:Fun with telemarketers (Score:4, Funny)

      by Jim Hall ( 2985 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:57AM (#9529466) Homepage

      My standard response for the (rare) telemarketer phone calls I get is this:

      telemarketer: Hi, my name is Cyndi and I'm calling from __ company to tell you about...

      me: I don't believe your name is Cyndi.

      Gets 'em every time. :-)

  • loophole (Score:5, Interesting)

    by psbrogna ( 611644 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:23AM (#9529018)
    I recently received an unsolicited call from a creditcard company despite 1. being on the national DNC list, 2. having Radio Shack's telezapper, 3. paying Verizon for the extra funcationality of blocking certain type of calls. Turns out there's an effective, common loophole these bastards use: They partner with a business that you have a legitimate relationship with. Sequence of events: Phone rings, Caller ID says its AAA (I'm a member), I pick it up and I get the credit card schpiel. When I confronted the agent about being on the DNC list, he said that this call was a special offer to AAA members. I cancelled my AAA membership.

    • Re:loophole (Score:4, Informative)

      by dschuetz ( 10924 ) <david&dasnet,org> on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:37AM (#9529182)
      They partner with a business that you have a legitimate relationship with.

      I'm really not sure that's a legal loophole. Yes, there is a loophole for a company you currently do business with (which really pisses me off when Best Buy refuses to sell me something w/out a phone number -- yes, that happened, and when I pushed the matter, the cashier grabbed a random customer's phone number out of their DB right in front of me!)

      Anyway, sorry, was ranting. Yes, someone you do business with has a loophole of sorts. But a credit card company, simply by "partnering" with AAA, doesn't get to call you. They're still an independent company offering an independent product that has nothing to do with the business relationship you've established with AAA. I really don't see how they can get around the law on that one. They should have been reported.

      Now, if it actually *was* AAA calling, then you simply need to tell AAA to put you on their own DNC list, and they have to. Like anyone ever did in the past. But still, they have to, and then NONE of the other "partnership" scams they might enter into will work.

      Let me try and rephrase all this, 'cause I'm hungry and telemarketers still raise my blood pressure:

      AAA calls on behalf of a CC company: legal (but a terribly violation of your trust in AAA)

      A CC company calls on behalf of AAA: Illegal (but I'm not a lawyer, and besides, does it really matter?)

      Anyway, that's the way I'd *expect* it to work. I'm probably wrong. :(

    • Re:loophole (Score:4, Insightful)

      by doublem ( 118724 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:38AM (#9529196) Homepage Journal
      The question is, did you TELL AAA that is why you canceled?

  • That's roughly one complaint every hour and 15 minutes for the past year.

    At $11k per violation, the FCC made about $8800 per hour from the DNC list. (assuming ideal enforcement).

  • Most, but not all, unsolicited calls stopped... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Not_Wiggins ( 686627 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:25AM (#9529057) Journal
    I signed up for the Do Not Call list when it went live.

    Lucky for me, I find that I only get about 1 or 2 "dropped calls" recorded on my answering machine a day while I'm not home.

    I think the Telezapper is helping to curb some of that.

    The thing that *really* gets to me are those people who aren't covered by the Do Not Call restrictions. In my case, charities (Vets, State Police, local Firefighters, etc.).

    You think they'd get the hint after asking them to not call any more and always saying "no thank you." But since they don't have to maintain a do not call list, they still call me back... every week, week in, week out.

    For those people, I have the "Phone Butler" (which plays a pre-recorded message then hangs up on them), but I'm tired of getting those calls all the same.

    Anyone else dealing with that sort of issue?
    Is there anything that can be done (really) to stop these repeated calls?
  • ...to my home voice number? In the middle of the night? It's weird -- I get two within 15 minutes from UNAVAILABLE, the third one has a number (which I can't call to -- assuming a non-answering PRI/DSS trunk), and the fourth attempt is back to unavailable.

    I've had this happen for two nights running. I could hook up the modem and answer it, but I'm worried that even accepting the call will hook me up for even more overnight FAX spam. I hoping that I might get one more night of it and then they'll give u

  • I'm happy for the yankees .... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by XMichael ( 563651 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:28AM (#9529083) Homepage Journal
    All I can say is, as a Canadian I've notice a HUGE, yes HUGE increase in the number of unsolicited calls from Americain; phone numbers, companys, and states solicity me!
    I fear that if the FCC is able to effectively 'crack' down on this, we Canadians will get further attention from a dieing industry ...
    Our Canadian counterpart the CRTC will make steps to protect us, but its going to be a shitty couple years while the beaucrats / legalities get worked out about cross country issues..


    CCTV Cameras [completecctv.com]
    Funny Photos [pricelessphotos.org]
  • There are three loopholes on most DNC lists.

    Previous or Existing business relationship. That is a biggie, I don't know how to get them to go away.

    Political and Charity groups. I haven't gotten any (except the police charity), but I would inform them that their rude interruption means I will specifically not support them. Fortuneately few real charities have ever called me.
    You could also follow this up with a contact to the group that you don't approve of this. I'm sure that they'd be glad to know that you
  • Well, look at it this way, if that is just 1 complaint from 1 number, that is just 0.69% violation. Which for a new law, I think is pretty good. But it is no excuse for these big companies like AT&T.

  • I keep getting unwanted, unsolicited calls... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:37AM (#9529185)
    It's getting so annoying I'm thinking of leaving tech support altogether.

  • Factoring in "charities" (Score:5, Informative)

    by base_chakra ( 230686 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:39AM (#9529203)
    The regulations don't apply to political and charitable solicitors, but all other telemarketers who call numbers on the list face fines up to $11,000 per violation.

    The article doesn't divulge how many of the complaints are actually valid, but I think it's reasonable to assume that a large percentage of the "429,000 complaints" figure were solicitations from organizations claiming to represent charities or political bodies (all of the phone solitations I've gotten since registering fall into this category).

    While such calls are exempt, I'd like to see additional regulation of the groups who hide behind this loophole; not because I oppose legitimate charities seeking donations, but because of the high probability that money donated over the phone will actually reach the charity.

    Here's the way it often works: a legitimate charity contracts a telemarking firm to collect a predetermined amount of money. After the firm reaches the quota, they may continue to make solicitations ostensibly on the charity's behalf, but--according to the terms of the contract)--they get to keep all the money beyond the stipulated quota.

    If you want to support a charitable organization or political entity, consider donating directly.
    • In Norway, the do-not-call lists can apply to charities (as well as businesses) if the person registering chooses such. From my experience in working with handling complaints, charities are often the worst violators.

      A lot of these charities that use telemarketers and violate the do-not-call list have later been investigated for and charged with fraud.

  • from the other side of the pond... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tuxette ( 731067 ) * <.moc.liamg. .ta. .ettexut.> on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:41AM (#9529226) Homepage Journal
    Perhaps a little off-topic, but an amusing little story...

    Once upon a time when I had a job, one of my duties was registering complaints regarding violations of Norway's version of the do-not-call list. A lot of organization names came up again and again and again. And of course when I contacted these organizations to give them a warning, all I got was arrogance - "we're doing good work blah blah blah, how can a charity afford to buy the updated it's-ok-to-call lists blah blah blah...."

    Now over here, we have 2 different "consumer watchdog" shows on TV. Each show "outed" some of the worst violators. One of them was some kind of Bible charity that supposedly collected money for starving children in Eastern Europe, but from what the journalists managed to find out, the money was going towards luxury property for the organization leaders. This was an organization that was probably one of the top three when it came to complaints about violations of the do-not-call list. You can't imagine how happy it made me to see them outed for being fraudsters.

    There are also a few other telemarketing companies are also being investigated for fraud; complaints about violations of the do-not-call list have been a motivating factor in this. Mowahaha....

  • no-call list (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:41AM (#9529234)
    I'm on the Missouri no-call list (it preceeded the national list by several years) and I rarely get calls anymore. That is, except for AT&T, who has an exemption in the no-call law (the national one too - businesses that already have a relationship with you, as well as all telecom companies, are exempted in these laws). They call several times a week.

    I still complain about them, even though they're exempt from prosecution, in the hopes that the laws will be strengthened to remove this loophole.

    Missouri Attorney General Jay Nixon has been diligent in pursuing violators (and they don't have to be calling from Missouri - the law covers calls into Missouri) and the calls fell off dramaticly when telemarketing companies learned that the law is enforced. On the rare occasion they do call, they are VERY apologetic when I inform them I'm on the no-call list, and they have been good about getting me off their call lists, where they definitely weren't before the law went into effect.

    All in all, I'm all for it. It's very effective as long as it's enforced.

  • They're calling from Canada now (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bitty ( 91794 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:45AM (#9529301) Homepage
    I've gotten calls from Canada from AT&T, insurance companies and credit card offers. I'm surprised it took this long for them to find that loophole.

  • My experience (long, very long) (Score:5, Informative)

    by IWantMoreSpamPlease ( 571972 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:50AM (#9529355) Homepage Journal
    I'll try to keep this short, but it's complex.

    I have caller ID, and was on the DNC list the very day it was offered to the public.

    About 2 months ago, I started seeing my caller ID log fill up with calls from someplace in Georgia.

    But the calls were always during normal work hours (when I'm not home) so my answering machine was full of hang-ups.

    Well one night, they called at 7 pm, while I was home. I answered the phone, waited for the pause (while a computer transferred me to a live human)....and was promptly hung up on!

    That just plain pissed me off, so I immediately called back the number on my caller ID.... ...only to get a voice mail box that was full. The woman's voice slurred the name of the firm, so I couldn't quite tell who they were (sounded like Charity Organizations of America).

    A helpful computer option said to press 1 to be connected to the main operator.

    I did so, and was promptly told by yet another computer that the main line was no longer in service!

    Some investigation on Google (and white pages, and reverse lookup anbd what not) gave zip. The number didn't exist.

    A call to my local phone company the next day had no information, but if I wished to place a complaint, it would be looked into, *in 4 to 6 months* (no, not weeks...months).

    Well I knew the area code, it belonged to Bell South. So I contacted the Georgia one, and they too, had no info for the number, no listing, nothing.

    I have a police friend down there, and they have access to all kinds of cool toys we don't, and even *she* had no info for the number!

    Ditto a call to the Non-Profit registry service of my state, nor of Georgia.

    More than just a simple case of DNC abuse was going on here.

    Long story short (too late!) after much time calling, and looking about on the internet, I called Bell South back and pretended I worked for that number and was having phone problems, and could they be so kind as to help out?

    Turned out is was a telemarketing firm, who had registered one legit phone number, and a bunch of trunk lines, all with voice mail boxes attached, pointing to each other with the main line being disconnected. All very illegal. A few more questions and I had the main line to the firm, whom I was able to track down easily on the web and contact them, stating in no uncertain terms if they ever called back, under *any* guise, I'd nail their ass to the wall for fraud, DNC abuse, and whatever else I could think up at the moment.

    They never called again, and I've not had any more telemarkter calls since.

    Moral of the story? Don't piss off a geek with too much free time on his hands...

  • Do they actually fine people? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by aardvarkjoe ( 156801 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @11:55AM (#9529436)
    Being on the do-not-call list has improved things, but I still get two or three calls a night, mostly from local companies. In fact, I find it even worse, now that they prefix their sales pitch with "this is not a sales call." If they're going to call me against my wishes, the least they could do is not insult my intelligence by pretending that they're not selling anything.

    I've just figured that low-volume telemarketing gets in under the radar, and hoped that some day the list might actually be enforced. Although if it's working for other people, maybe it's just the location where I am.

  • VoIP and Do Not Call (Score:4, Informative)

    by artemis67 ( 93453 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @12:00PM (#9529507)
    I wonder if VoIP is also included in the Do Not Call bill.

    I use Vonage, and normally I'm a huge supporter of theirs, but last week I got a voicemail from them trying to get me to upgrade.

    There was never an actual "phone call", as the message was placed directly into voicemail at 3 AM on the 19th. However, that is also the intent of many, if not most, telemarketers, i.e., to leave a "personal sounding" voicemail rather than talk to a live person.

    I was pretty upset that they spammed my voicemailbox like that.

  • How about something like "DTMF knocking"? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bl8n8r ( 649187 ) on Friday June 25, 2004 @12:18PM (#9529714)
    This shit isn't going to go away. How long before I get just as much bullshit on my cell phone as I do in my Inbox?

    "It would be cool to give people I know a 3 digit DTMF code or somethign to enter while the phone is ringing so I would know it's someone I know, and not some fucking telemarketer", He said, popping the back off his cell phone.....

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