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FSF Subpoenaed by SCO 432

An anonymous reader writes "Bradley M. Kuhn on the FSF website: Late last year, we were subpoenaed by SCO as part of the ongoing dispute between SCO and IBM. Today, we made that subpoena available on our website. This is a broad subpoena that effectively asks for every single document about the GPL and enforcement of the GPL since 1999. They also demand every document and email that we have exchanged with Linus Torvalds, IBM, and other players in the community. In many cases, they are asking for information that is confidential communication between us and our lawyers, or between us and our contributors."
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FSF Subpoenaed by SCO

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  • In many cases, (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Threni ( 635302 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:10PM (#9206596)
    > In many cases, they are asking for information that is confidential communication
    > between us and our lawyers, or between us and our contributors."

    See JYA at Cryptome for how to deal with this sort of thing.
    • Re:In many cases, (Score:5, Interesting)

      by jdreed1024 ( 443938 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:23PM (#9206806)
      or between us and our contributors.

      Why is that special in the eyes of the law? (seriously - the blurb does not make it clear) Attorney-client confidentiality, sure. Medical professional confidentiality, fine. Developer-packager confidentiality? I don't think so. Unless these are confidential for some other reason. Stamping "confidential" on it, doesn't make it confidential. That's kind of the point of subpoenas.

      Or am I missing something?

      • Re:In many cases, (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Rakshasa Taisab ( 244699 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:35PM (#9206976) Homepage
        Suing someone doesn't give you automatic Big-Brother rights. Especially if the stuff doesn't even remotely affect the suit.
      • Re:In many cases, (Score:3, Insightful)

        by k12linux ( 627320 )
        Considering that the FSF often deals with legal matters, it is quite likely that some of these items ARE attorney-client type issues. So, do you think they should have to pay for someone's time to dig through every bit if e-mail and decide what is privileged and what isn't? Just because SCO is searching desparately for some kind of evidence.
    • SCO has finally gone fishing nuts.

      Just me, from when I started my archives in 1987, for email and personal/work files (with some whoops redundancy).... I have a little over 10G [lots of pictures, some text, a few corrupt files, and I know there must be a couple ancient MS-DOS and/or CP/M viruses entombed for posterity].

      If they want everything from FSF/GNU/RMS/EmployeeA-z/ContactA-Z/.... They could be fishing for years, and catch a few interesting zip-null files for all their efforts. Those folks at SCO must be getting sustenance from a deep-pockets source for these fishing expeditions, because they are wasting everyone's time ... time ... time ... will the FSF Foundation ever get reimbursed for all the time spent from a company that will just file bankruptcy when needed.

      Maybe that is it, they are trying to bankrupt the FSF foundation by having everyone working at the FSF for nothing and costing time and money ... over months and years. That guy at SCO he ain't smart enough for such tactical/strategic thought ... I wonder who the real software boss is?

      I will continue to make ($20-$200) donations to FSF and others, but I will continue to keep it all hand2hand without receipts or tax benefits. I don't got time or money for SCO to get me or maybe the US software Gestapo that went after that nice Georgia Cracker lady that protects the USA Constitution, Democracy, and voting ....

      I may be paranoid, but I can see it coming ... $30 for everything copied and shipped ... sounds like they may want to know exactly which trash-dump FSF's trash was tossed in for the past decade. Then, maybe, next year SCO will ask FSF and RMS to deliver the trash dump to SCO.

      "Reality is a self-induced hallucination." [Anyone know who owns this line?]

      OldHawk777
  • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:11PM (#9206603)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Chemicalscum ( 525689 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:11PM (#9206608) Journal
    Will RMS testify in his St. Ignucius costume.
    • by jjeffries ( 17675 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:25PM (#9206849)
      that's a costume?
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Dear SCO, I am respectfully contacting you confidentialy for your information assistence. My father, the late Prime Minister of Free Trade Software Foundation, was assinated and left me with 32,000,000 GPL related documents {THIRTY-TWO MILIONS). To get access to these documents I need access to a foreign company. For your assistance I will reimburse you 15% (FIVE MILIONS U.S. DOCUMENTS). If you are willing to help me, please sent me a supeena with your name, address, and contact on it. I hope this reac
  • I'm surprised? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Tebriel ( 192168 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:12PM (#9206615)
    Why didn't they ask for internet histories and newsgroup postings made as well? This sounds like they're grasping for straws when they don't even know what straw to look for. It sounds like harassment more than a subpoena.
    • by happyfrogcow ( 708359 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:25PM (#9206843)
      just print out every resulting page from a goodle search of GNU GPL Linux, including subsearches on images, groups, and froogle. also, print out any non english results by sending them through babelfish.

      print all the results on 3x5 notecards, in 7 pt font. in binary. naw, binary would be too easy to scan and convert to digital with OCR. make it some crazy bubble letter font. any resulting images convert to ascii art. any froogle results, purchase them and have the sent Cost on Delivery to SCO Headquarters. Which by now is probably the backseat of a Pinto, about to blow up because they shut the door too hard.
    • Re:I'm surprised? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mgpeter ( 132079 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:32PM (#9206943) Homepage
      This sounds like they're grasping for straws when they don't even know what straw to look for.

      Exactly, and everyone knows it too. Their stock price is just about the same level as when this whole thing got started.

      I would bet the judge isn't too happy about all of this either, as his/her case load is probably heavy.

      If I was a betting man, the more stunts SCO pulls like this, the better the chances of this getting thrown out with extreme predjudice.

  • by eyeball ( 17206 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:13PM (#9206628) Journal
    I say you should download every mail list, usenet archive, and online discussion group, then print it all out on 10,000 pages. Throw in RFCs and source code to bulk it up a bit.

    • Re:Overburden them (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Progman3K ( 515744 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:19PM (#9206731)
      >I say you should download every mail list, usenet archive, and online discussion group, then print it all out on 10,000 pages. Throw in RFCs and source code to bulk it up a bit.

      DON'T.

      First of all, we can win this without being as low as SCO, and
      Second, they'll use the volume of information returned as a reason to stall the proceedings so they can have their legal team "go over the evidence"
    • by nocomment ( 239368 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:21PM (#9206775) Homepage Journal
      then print it all out on 10,000 pages

      Then on the way over there, drop it, so all the pages go flying and put them all back together out of order.
    • Re:Overburden them (Score:5, Interesting)

      by dprovine ( 140134 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:22PM (#9206794)

      I understand from my attorney friends that giving people a zillion documents is known as `papering them over'. A prosecutor of my acquantance tells me that well-designed subpoenas try to avoid the situation where you end up with 23 pallet loads of paper.

      What that says to me is that SCO's lawyers have specifically asked to be papered over, so as to have lots more billable hours for the time spent reading all the irrelevant paperwork.

      It's possible, in fact, that they'll bill for 500 hours of reading these papers when they don't bother to read any of it at all; how would SCO prove that they didn't do it?

    • It's from last year! (Score:5, Informative)

      by DarkMan ( 32280 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:50PM (#9207160) Journal
      Read the document, it's data November 2003

      This is online as a historical document, not as a new summons. Complience with it is now a moot point (unless there was something really freaky going on that we're not aware of), given they were due by 21st Nov 2003.

  • Non issue (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Jailbrekr ( 73837 ) <jailbrekr@digitaladdiction.net> on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:13PM (#9206636) Homepage
    So lawyers are petitioning for confidential information from other lawyers, knowing it is confidential?

    Why, preytell, have there been no petitions to have SCOs lawyers disbarred yet?

    • Re:Non issue (Score:5, Informative)

      by sphealey ( 2855 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:17PM (#9206702)
      So lawyers are petitioning for confidential information from other lawyers, knowing it is confidential?

      Why, preytell, have there been no petitions to have SCOs lawyers disbarred yet?

      Oldest trick in the book is to stamp every document you create "confidential attorney-client work product" and claim all your documents are immune to subponea.

      So, when subpoea'ing, you ask for every document the other guys has. Then your lawyer and his lawyer agree on what is confidential, or if they can't agree, the judge decides (I am told judges despise litigants who can't come to agreements on that sort of stuff).

      sPh

      • by Oliver Wendell Jones ( 158103 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:25PM (#9206846)
        I actually have a rubber stamp on my desk that stamps the phrase

        THIS DOCUMENT OFFICIALLY
        -------DOES NOT EXIST-------


        See here [insightbb.com] for a scanned image of the impression.

        I have yet to see it held up in court, but any time I print a document I don't want to have to worry about, I smack it with the stamp and put it in a file drawer.

        I keep it right next to my What the *#*$# were you thinking? rubber stamp that I had custom made. That one seems to be getting an awful lot of use recently...
    • About the only thing Lawyers actually ever get disbarred for is screwing with their clients money, i.e. escrow accounts and such.
  • Legality, please? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Khakionion ( 544166 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:14PM (#9206640)
    IANAL, but is this legal? Don't they have to somehow prove that the documents they're asking for have some relevance to their argument?

    Furthermore, what exactly is their argument? Is it still that Linux contains SCO code? How would documents about "enforcement of the GPL" prove existence of SCO code?
    • by Anonymous Coward
      IANAL, but is this legal?

      <Darth McBride> I will make it legal. </Darth McBride>

    • Re:Legality, please? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Tarantolato ( 760537 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:35PM (#9206972) Journal
      ANAL, but is this legal? Don't they have to somehow prove that the documents they're asking for have some relevance to their argument?

      It's pretty common for requests like this to be super-broad. Plaintiff: give us everything. Subpoenee: we give you nothing. Plaintiff: okay, how bout half? Subpoenee: leave us alone and we'll give you 40%.

      So to a certain extent, it's standard lawyerly practice. However, it's the kind of thing judges tire of quickly if taken too far: "fishing expedition" is what it's called.

      Furthermore, what exactly is their argument? Is it still that Linux contains SCO code? How would documents about "enforcement of the GPL" prove existence of SCO code?

      SCO must prove not only that their IP was infringed, but also that the infringement was malicious: i.e. harmful and intentional. What they'd like to get out of these documents is a picture of IBM plotting in dark rooms with dirty GNU hippies to destroy SCO's proprietary Unix business by stealing source code and selectively litigating with the GPL. (but IANAL either)
      • by iabervon ( 1971 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @02:38PM (#9207816) Homepage Journal
        Plaintiff: give us everything.
        Subpoenee: we give you nothing.
        Plaintiff: okay, how bout half?
        Subpoenee: we'll give you everything RMS has said about software licensing.
        Plaintiff: uh...
        Subpoenee: and everything he's said to women at cons.
        Plaintiff: got a court date, talk to you later. Subpoenee: and a recording of the song.
        Subpoenee: Hello?
  • SCO seems to be getting desperate and going after any thing and any one who may (or may not) have had any thing to do with Unix. I just keep wondering how long before they finally run out of gas. Give me a break -- FSF -- yeah right. Their stocks sure have fallen lately -- at least there's something good in that!
  • by Anonymous Custard ( 587661 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:14PM (#9206649) Homepage Journal
    Assure them that you have the documents they, and also that you have undeniable proof of the documents. Refuse to provide them, on ground that it would violate agreements you have with certain parties (don't mention who these parties are).

    If all else fails, claim that you cannot provide the documents because it is a matter of national security.

    2003 was a very good year for learning new stonewalling techniques...
    • by Phillup ( 317168 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:43PM (#9207079)
      Better yet...

      Tell the JUDGE that you have been required because of an ongoing investigation that is SECRET because of the patriot act... that you can't fork over the data.

      You can't actually tell him about the trial because it is SECRET.

      And he can't find out if it really exists... because it is SECRET.

      Get them caught in a big 'ol catch 22 re: the secrecy bs of the patriot act.
  • Past the deadline? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by sphealey ( 2855 )
    5 months past the deadline and FSF is just posting this? Seems as if there is some agenda here...

    sPh
    • by happyfrogcow ( 708359 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:20PM (#9206753)
      besides letting the free software/open source community know what SCO is stooping to? maybe the FSF lawyers told them not to release the contents of the subpoena until they were certain of any legal actions they had to take.

      agendas maybe. not all agendas are bad.
  • New docs out. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:14PM (#9206654)
    • Teaser. (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:16PM (#9206690)

      "SCO has advised the court that it has provided complete and detailed responses to the Court's orders. If that is true, then summary judgement is appropriate because SCO has no evidence of IBM's alledged infringement (as SCO has adduced none). If it is not true, then summary judgement is appropriate because SCO has not only defied two orders of the Court, but it has also falsely certified that it has provided complete, detailed and thorough answers to IBM's interrogatories and the Court's orders. Either way, the Court should forthwith enter summary judgment in favor of IBM."

  • IANAL, but that's my take from reading the subpoena. It looks to me like Darl & company may be trying to assert that the GPL is void because it's not being enforced. And, its use against SCO is a special case.
    • by RAMMS+EIN ( 578166 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:21PM (#9206777) Homepage Journal
      But that wouldn't work. It would be an argument if it was a trademark issue, but it has to do with copyright here. Not that SCO really seems to know what they are really after anymore. Was it breach of contract? Or copyright infringement? Or both?
    • by red floyd ( 220712 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:32PM (#9206947)
      And what exactly does the FSF have to do with selective enforcement of the GPL on items they don't hold the copyright to?

      Linus and the other kernel hackers have not assigned kernel copyrights to the FSF. Hence, they have no standing to enforce it one way or the other.

      Someone on Groklaw put it something like this: I'm a landlord. I go into BusinessDepot and buy a stack of generic lease agreements. A tenant of mine is in a dispute with me, and blames BusinessDepot for "selectively" enforcing the generic lease agreement, and subpoenas them for all correspondence regarding that lease agreement.
    • by Our Man In Redmond ( 63094 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:57PM (#9207285)
      Trouble is, SCOG doesn't seem to understand that the FSF doesn't enforce the GPL, except in cases where they own the copyright to the product offered under the license (e.g. GNU software such as GNU Emacs and gcc). They seem to think the FSF is some kind of GPL Police, which is not the case. It's up to the individual copyright holder to enforce his/her/its copyright.

      This, of course, being only one of the many things SCOG doesn't understand about the GPL.
      • Neo-cons (which I think Daryl, et al. easily qualify as) have a pathological blindspot that sees human behavior only occuring due to some Real Politik control. It's sort of a conspiracy theory of human sociological behavior. The concept of emergent systems and behaviors are impossible in their dogma. It's pathetically Newtonian in a way. "God" or "god" (as in human leader) as the one and only watchmaker.

        You see it here. You also see it in US foreign policy - Bush, et al., seem to believe it's not pos

  • Obvious Tactic (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RickHunter ( 103108 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:17PM (#9206705)

    Its pretty obvious what SCO's trying to do here. This had one of two objectives:

    1. Bury the FSF in paperwork. To comply with the subpoena, they have to turn over so much material that its trivial for them to miss something. When they do, point it out as evidence of noncompliance and use that to drag them into court.
    2. Look for evidence of other wrongdoing.
  • Confidential? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by MisterBad ( 40316 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:17PM (#9206706) Homepage
    Why would communication between FSF and its contributors be confidential?
  • Support the FSF! (Score:5, Informative)

    by Henrik S. Hansen ( 775975 ) <hsh@member.fsf.org> on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:18PM (#9206712) Homepage
    If we fight the subpoena, it means substantial legal fees associated with litigation. If we produce materials, it means substantial effort to gather the relevant documents. Even though we'll be reimbursed for the direct costs, the indirect costs in staff time will be ours to bear.

    Now is the time to support the FSF, so they can fight this thing. It'd be awful if they had to give out private emails and other communication.

    Become a member of the FSF [fsf.org] and support them financially. (I am already a member). You can also send anonymous donations, or buy something from GNU Press [gnupress.org].

  • Haha (Score:5, Funny)

    by CaptainSuperBoy ( 17170 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:18PM (#9206722) Homepage Journal
    The law firm misspelled their own name in the subpoena: "Boise Schiller & Flexner".
  • by secolactico ( 519805 ) * on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:20PM (#9206749) Journal
    Shoot, they nearly asked for everything but the birth certificates of FSF members.

    They are essentially asking for *anything* that might be related to the GPL, the companies that use it, people that write under it, enforcement, etc, including written communications, memo, documentation, etc.
  • but (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mpost4 ( 115369 ) * on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:21PM (#9206774) Homepage Journal
    according the doc, they don't have to give the docs over, if they send some one to the deposition. So they can just send some one, and now SCO has to ask questions to get the info they want and not just go on a fishing exposition.
  • by kuwan ( 443684 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:23PM (#9206813) Homepage
    The documents are just getting posted, but IBM has just filed a "Cross-motion for partial summary judgment on claim for declaratory judgment of non-infringement." They are asking for summary judgment on IBM's "Tenth Counterclaim." This is the counterclaim in question:

    IBM is entitled to a declaratory judgment pursuant to 28 U. C. 9 2201 that IBM does not infringe, induce the infringement of, or contribute to the infringement of any SCO copyright through its Linux activities, including its use, reproduction and improvement of Linux, and that some or all of SCO' s purported copyrights in UNIX are invalid and unenforceable.

    The docs are just starting to get up but you can follow the discussion on the Yahoo SCOX message board. [yahoo.com]
  • by Fnkmaster ( 89084 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:28PM (#9206880)
    Here's a transcription of the subpoena:


    Dear FSF,

    All your documents are belong to us. Here's 30 bucks to cover your copying costs (in case you didn't get that this is a big "fuck you", let us clarify that for you - "FUCK YOU"). Toodle-oo!

    Yours truly,

    Your buddies at Dewey, Stickham and Howe

  • by bstadil ( 7110 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:31PM (#9206924) Homepage
    The latest filings in this case if from Yesterday where IBM has filed for Summary judgement.

    SCO is screwed by their own admission

    Quote

    SCO has advised the court that it has provided complete and detailed responses to the Court's orders. If that is true, then summary judgement is appropriate because SCO has no evidence of IBM's alledged infringement (as SCO has adduced none). If it is not true, then summary judgement is appropriate because SCO has not only defied two orders of the Court, but it has also falsely certified that it has provided complete, detailed and thorough answers to IBM's interrogatories and the Court's orders. Either way, the Court should forthwith enter summary judgment in favor of IBM.

  • Harassment (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nuggz ( 69912 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:35PM (#9206966) Homepage
    Can someone legally harrass a third party in this matter?

    For many individuals and companies the cost of complying to such a demand is excessive, the threat of such might be enough to settle a case.
  • by hak1du ( 761835 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:37PM (#9207007) Journal
    The FSF just published a license, which Linus just happened to adopt for Linux. What do they have to do with the SCO lawsuit?
  • by raider_red ( 156642 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:40PM (#9207042) Journal
    At the hearing: "Your honor, it was addressed to whom it may concern. None of us were particularly concerned, so we trashed it."

    As an alternative, they could just send backup tapes of the hard drives off of every server which FSF earns, and let Boies and company figure out how to extract the data. Extra points for using an obscure/obsolete tape format.
  • SCO Funds FSF! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Quila ( 201335 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @01:55PM (#9207254)
    "...will reimburse you for all reasonable duplication costs."

    Going off a standard schedule for copy costs and associated labor ("reasonable") would still be an awful lot of money since we're talking likely hundreds of thousands of documents here, but probably more money than FSF would actually need to produce the documents. If an accounting is required of billable hours for those getting the docs together, hire OSS programmers who could use some extra cash. Therefore, this could in the end be a large donation by SCO to the FSF and OSS programmers.
  • I believe.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by fizban ( 58094 ) <fizban@umich.edu> on Thursday May 20, 2004 @02:08PM (#9207411) Homepage
    ...the correct response is:

    "These are not the documents you're looking for. Move along."
  • by Linus Sixpack ( 709619 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @02:24PM (#9207635) Journal
    Given their delaying tactics they might love to be given too much data.

    Aside from the question of who eventually will get that data ie invisible backers, they seem to be abusing the trial as a way to get press not justice.

    Whatever intelligence they can collect for their backers is probably gravy, and if they can gain a delay based on its volume that must suit them fine.

    Besides when you know there won't be proof you can use its easy to disregard stacks of paper.

    Perhaps they could hire the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution to make grand pronouncements without the burden of the facts.
  • by Cecil ( 37810 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @02:50PM (#9207982) Homepage
    Then neither am I. I had the priviledge of seeing Eben Moglen speak during OSConf at University of Toronto, and after that display, I feel it's safe to say that the FSF does not need any legal advice from the outside, much less IANALs from Slashdot getting the issue hopelessly confused.

    Other lawyers who are ignorant of the law, seem to irritate him somewhat. I don't blame him. But given that tidbit of knowledge, just imagine how he feels about the garbage SCO is throwing around.

    I am sure that if it has not done so already, the FSF will respond decisively in an ethical and legal manner, and certainly nothing substantial will ever come of SCO's whining.
  • by BinLadenMyHero ( 688544 ) <binladen@9hell s . org> on Thursday May 20, 2004 @03:10PM (#9208235) Journal
    My favorite part of the FSF letter:

    In addition to answering and/or disputing the subpoena, we must also educate the community about why it is that Linux was attacked and GNU was not. For more than a decade, FSF has urged projects to build a process whereby the legal assembly of the software is as sound as the software development itself. Many Free Software developers saw the copyright assignment process used for most GNU components as a nuisance, but we arduously designed and redesigned the process to remove the onerousness. Now the SCO fiasco has shown the community the resilience and complete certainty that a good legal assembly process can create. (SCO, after all, eventually dropped their claims against GNU as a whole and focused on the Linux project which, for all its wonderful technical achievements, has a rather loose legal assembly process.)

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