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100-Year Domain Renewals? 376
Ryosen writes "I received an email this morning from Network Solutions. Seems they are offering their current customers the ability to renew their domain names for 100 years. Is this is a realistic investment considering most companies don't last 100 years? Given that the Internet is a recent phenomenom, is it realistic to expect it to be the same in 100 years? Will Verisign be around that long? Does this make sense?"
Um...no (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Um...no (Score:3, Insightful)
Case 1:
There is a special department to handle this matter. All right, now there's no such need.
Case 2:
There's no special department to deal with domain name renewal. Once every few years, when everybody has forgotten the matter and suddenly somebody realises the domain is going to expire tomorrow. So now the problem would cease to exist within your lifetime (that's good enough, is
Re:Um...no (Score:5, Funny)
Time = Money (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Time = Money (Score:5, Insightful)
$14.99 per year invested at 5% compounded annually for 100 years is worth $41,080.49 in 100 years.
$1,000 invested up front at 5% compounded annually for 100 years is worth $131,501.26 in 100 years.
The $14.99 is the per year rate for 10 year renewals on Network Solutions. Since Network Solutions sends dozens of emails reminding you to renew, you have no reason to forget. Just make sure the contact address is not an individual but hostmaster@ or domainadmin@ since a 10 year tenure at a company is rare these days. I think time is unlikely to account for this difference in opportunity cost.
Re:Um...no (Score:3, Informative)
When you do work for large firms, you learn that getting them to actually write a check for services rendered can be quite tedious. It really doesn't surprise me that all that a bill for domain renewal just sits there. It won't get paid until a "champion" makes sure it gets paid.
(As an aside, I find that we can't help but provide better, more responsive service, going the extra mile, for clients that pay their bills promptly without extra work on our part.)
Re:Um...no (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Um...no (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Um...no (Score:5, Funny)
Good point. DNS will likely be replaced by a huge globally distributed Active Directory implementation by then.
Re:Um...no (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Um...no (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Um...no (Score:5, Interesting)
Heck, what if there was enough IP space such that the ASCII codes for the letters in your site name somehow made up the actual IP. That would eliminate the need for a DNS system altogether, but would waste a lot of IP space as we think about it in our current paradigm of fixed ip lengths with groupings etc etc. Perhaps future systems will not need fixed length, perhaps not. Who knows.
Re:Um...no (Score:5, Insightful)
10 dollars paid 100 years in advance.. think about it people.
I have a better deal! (Score:3, Funny)
* All sales final. Domain names not transferrable.
Dead (Score:2)
Re:Dead (Score:5, Insightful)
This is obviously aimed at companies. I'm sure IBM, GM, Ford, Microsoft, etc. have no intentions of going anywhere and $1000-$3000 for 100 years of domain registration comes out of petty cash for them.
Re:Dead (Score:5, Insightful)
Having said that, I can't imagine that people will access web sites in fifty years (if there's even anything that still exists that's remotely analagous to a website by then) by typing text into an address bar. I don't know what they'll be doing instead, but I get the feeling that owning a cool domain name will be about as valuable as having the rights to a particularly catchy morse code callsign would be now.
Re:Dead (Score:3, Funny)
Well, in all likelihood, they'll be too busy trying to survive day by day, while keeping on the run from the zombie horde that wants to eat their flesh.
Man, this documentary [dawnofthedeadmovie.net] really freaked me out.
Re:Dead (Score:4, Funny)
You should print this comment out, put it in a shoebox somewhere (or a time capsule!) and open it up in 50 years. You'll probably have a good laugh. I'm not sure exactly what part of this will be funny in fifty years, but more than likely it'll somehow be funny. ;)
Re:Um...no (Score:4, Insightful)
Why on earth would anyone lock in a single service provider for 100 years? Would you sign a 100 year cell phone plan? I sure wouldn't, because it removes any incentive for the company to do a good job.
It also removes any opportunity for you to vote with your dollars if you don't like the behavior of the company. I used to have my domain registered with Network Solutions, but when their parent company, Verisign, started hijacking NXDOMAIN responses and sending people to their advertising instead, I moved my domain to GoDaddy as a protest.
I don't want my dollars going to a company that seems to want to use their ICANN granted monopoly over the root database to "innovate" themselves as much profit as the can, at the expense of everyone else on the internet.
Besides, the discounted 100 year price from Network Solutions is the same as GoDaddy's everyday price, so it's not even a bargain. I've also found GoDaddy's support to be much easier to get to, and much more responsive and knowledgable than Network Solutions. I'm definitely very happy I made the move.
I think they know something we don't! (Score:2, Funny)
Synical, me? Naaaa.
Re:I think they know something we don't! (Score:2)
Makes a lot of sense for Verisign... (Score:5, Insightful)
For the users, it's pretty much equivalent to being able to buy your domain name for all time, with no risk of it somehow falling to a domain squatter because you failed to renew. If you've got the money to throw at that sort of peace of mind, then why not?
Snapnames (Score:4, Insightful)
domain name hijackers (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Makes a lot of sense for Verisign... (Score:3, Informative)
So if Versign dies, they won't be able to do this any longer. So you have to renew the domain (and pay for it) yourself.
Of course, if Verisign becomes insolvent, you won't get your money back either.
One Winner (Score:5, Interesting)
The idea of allowing a user to specify a date for renewals is best, for example April 1st could become the date all the domains for a company are renewed, rather than scattered dates throughout the year.
My Auction: Pan Tilt Moveable Ethernet Webcam, UK! [ebay.co.uk]
Re:One Winner (Score:5, Insightful)
Really? Tell me, who exactly is working at IBM, Apple, Ford, Xerox, Boeing, etc who is the single person responsible for making sure that the domain gets re-registered say 10 years from today? Such a person might lose his job and/or be easily lost in the system by that time. Constructing an internal system to keep track of this costs well more than $1000, and in fact it costs probably a minimum of $200 of people-time to do such renewals even in a medium-large sized company.
Frankly, for all the stupid and evil things that NetSol does, this is a brilliant marketing move and more power to them. Not only does it get them desperately needed up-front cash, but they get paid above the odds and lessen the chance of some embarassing squatter incident involving a medium-large company in the near future.
Re:One Winner (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:One Winner (Score:3, Insightful)
Now one thing I am a strong proponent of is fair use and ownership. For exmaple you can take over microsoft
Re:One Winner (Score:3, Insightful)
Asset Management (Score:3)
Re:One Winner (Score:3, Funny)
Re:One Winner (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah, it makes sense... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, it makes sense... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not short sighted.... (Score:5, Insightful)
In business, it's always better to get money sooner over later. 100 years early isn't a "trick", it's almost theft.
Re:It's not short sighted.... (Score:3, Informative)
I think you forgot about inflation. All you need is one or two decades with double digit inflation like we had in the 70's and you'll be lucky if the "real dollars" break even.
Re:It's not short sighted.... (Score:5, Informative)
What NetSol is saying is that they think that inflation in domain name prices will be lower than inflation in general (note that domain name prices have been *falling* rather than rising; remember when the same $1000 would have gotten a domain for *1* year, not 100?). As a result, they are better off getting paid now, even at a discount from their typical rates.
Note: remember that we are talking about the advantages to the *seller* here. Buyers would probably be better off with short term renewals, as they can expect domain name prices to fall relative to other products as name serving, etc. becomes more efficient. All they gain are the transactional savings of not renewing as often.
Not to mention the problem of NetSol going out of business in the meantime and leaving these 100 year domain owners stranded.
Re:It's not short sighted.... (Score:2)
Well, yes, but from the perspective of the consumer, think about inflation. If it costs, whatever, say $1000 to buy a domain for 100 years, you have to also account for the cost it would have cost to pay for the domain each year for 100 years, which, no doubt, will increase. Over 100 years of inflation, a domain that starts out costing $20/yr or w
Re:Yeah, it makes sense... (Score:3, Interesting)
long term -- well, at some point, the last IBM leaser bought his machine, and suddenly (and the accountants simply did not predict this would ever happen) the sales bottomed out and flatlined. pret
Lamers (Score:3, Insightful)
Face it, the current system will not last through leaps and bounds of technology that are coming. We are still in the stone age compared to what is ahead.
It would be better to take that money and buy ten years and invest the rest so it is actually doing something useful for you.
Best,
BJ
well why not? (Score:4, Interesting)
and, as far as Network Solutions is concerned, they get the full money, even if the client does go bust! Its win-win all round.
Re:well why not? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:well why not? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:well why not? (Score:2)
Re:well why not? (Score:3, Funny)
Renewal costs (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Renewal costs (Score:5, Insightful)
Is it a good deal for the issuer as well? Hell, yes. Pre-pays are great--the longer the better. You lock in the customer and, for any of a variety of reasons, you may never need to provide the service (the customer goes out of business, you go out of business). Or registration costs could drop so far that this is the world's most expensive domain registration in 10 years.
Probably Not. (Score:2, Insightful)
it's a tradeoff... (Score:5, Insightful)
For some people, heck for most, money can buy you conveniences.. This is just an additional service offered by them for a nice round number of years. They're just promising to take care of the hassle of domain renewal. At the end of the day, 10 year or 100 year renewal makes little difference. The person/organization which is organized won't need ANY renewal services, while others may opt for this service.
Some people pay money to buy tax software, while others hire an accountant and yet others do their taxes by themselves. It's the degree of customization and service which differs. Isn't that all there is to it ?
I'm not sure if the internet as we know it will exist in a 100 years, but then, people were arguing that snail mail would be extinct and there would be paperless offices throughout the planet. That hasn't happened yet. Let those who want this service spend some additional cash and buy themselves peace of mind, if they have the cash to spare and wish to do so.. Simple.
Where does the ownership go? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Where does the ownership go? (Score:4, Funny)
Do doo d' do do!
Do you really need Sandra Bullok and a few pink muppets to get the effect.
Re:Where does the ownership go? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Where does the ownership go? (Score:2)
If purchased the new company would be obligated to provide service as detailed in the agreement when you pay the contract.
If network solutions went belly up and no one purchased it and its info, then you are probably in trouble like everyone else.
If the government decided to take over all control then depending on which government you might get a prorated money back or nothing at all.
Re:Where does the ownership go? (Score:3, Interesting)
I asked the rep then what is to stop me from registering my domain at the cheapest place possible for an extended time, (10 yrs etc) and then transferring it to
I remember something similar to it (Score:5, Interesting)
Let's just say that for everybody that paid, it wasn't a very good investment.
(That said, it's not that people had a choice in the matter or anything)
Why pay $9.99/yr when you can pay less... (Score:5, Insightful)
With godaddy, you can subscribe for a few years, I know at least 6 years in advance. I can't remember if it's more.
With the money you tie up, you can invest, use the investment earnings to pay for more years or hosting. Or even better yet, free beer for your friends.
I'm not affiliated with godaddy, they're just my domain name registrar.
Re:Why pay $9.99/yr when you can pay less... (Score:2)
I will add this - it would be foolish to do this for another reason - what if you are bought out? What if your company name changes? Mine has changed from Gadzooks to adzooks to adzoox.
not really realistic. (Score:2)
-
i think im going to register (Score:4, Funny)
What happesn if (Score:2, Funny)
This is hysterical... (Score:5, Funny)
Or, in the immortal words of P.T. Barnum: " A sucker is born every minute ".
Anything else? (Score:2)
Innovating new product offerings (Score:2, Insightful)
Other registrars are complaining about the control and lack of innovation by ICANN yet Verisign is finding ways to intruduce new products.
If nobody buys this service then it is a failed experiment but I suspect they will do a slow but steady business selling these virtually unlimited domains. I know many companies that went out and registered their domains with the longest expiration possible at the time. If a 100 year registration
Family Names (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Family Names (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Family Names (Score:5, Funny)
I am an Immortal. That is why i signed the VeriSign 100-year contract.
Re:Family Names (Score:5, Insightful)
I registered my last name as a domain. Assuming it gets passed down to my (i don't have yet) children. How are they going to renew the domain? I'll be long gone 100 years from now. My address, email address, etc... will no longer be valid. How will they get the renewal notice? According to Verisign, the domain belongs to me. If I tranfer the domain, I lose the remaining years on my 100 year contract. Since I can't transfer the domain, how will me heirs prove the domain belongs to them?
100 years of interest loss (Score:2, Interesting)
This does not even come near the truth. If one dollar that you're paying now is used in a hundred years, you would actually have $131 when taking interest into account (assuming 5% each year).
What a loss!
Re:100 years of interest loss (Score:2, Funny)
Re:100 years of interest loss (Score:3, Informative)
Well you could make a great deal, look at Guinness (Score:5, Interesting)
Source: [viewlondon.co.uk]
I guess he made a great deal don't you?
This is dirt cheap.... (Score:3, Insightful)
VeriSign is selling the functional equivalent of a lifetime registration.
You know, like US copyright law.
Sure, it's not for every domain, but $1000 for 100 years of not having to rely on the kindness of others [com.com] (who may even hate you [com.com]) because the boneheads in your internet services division let your company's registration lapse is dirt cheap. It probably won't sell like hotcakes, but jalapeno poppers isn't out of the question. Speaking corporately, it's a lot cheaper than lawyers and bribes you'd need to fund to win your lost domain back.
Re:This is dirt cheap.... (Score:2)
Of course this is a good idea (Score:3, Insightful)
If you buy a domain for cheap, build up a decent web site (profitable would help), your 100-year lease on your domain becomes one hell of an asset.
Take the property market in the UK, for example. In London, most properties are "lease-holds", which means even though they're owned by private entities, when the lease-hold runs out (about 100 years), the property is given back to the Queen (so people can't just buy up all the expensive real-estate, and keep it). Most people use a long lease-hold as a selling point to buying their house. It guarantees you the house for as long as the lease-hold. It's the same with domains. You can't just look at the obvious financial aspects, but see how it pans out over time. A guarantee is sometimes worth more than the product itself.
www.microsoft.com isn't very useful if it's only yours for 2 minutes. A 100-year lease, however, would be worth billions.
From the book of Genesis... (Score:5, Funny)
And God said unto Cain, 'Why aren't thou using the latest kernel as they brother?'..............
E-Obsolesence (Score:2)
Re:E-Obsolesence (Score:2)
There is a 95% likelyhood that we are seeing the middle 95% of the Internet's lifetime. That means we have seen anything from the first 2.5% of the Internet's life span up to the first 97.5% of the Internet's lifespan. If we say (to make the numbers work out evenly) that the Internet was invented 25 years ago, then if we are present at the beginning of the Internet's life span, we can be 95% confident that
Of course it makes sense (Score:2)
If some of their customers want to renew for 100 years at a stretch, it makes perfect sense to permit them to thrust the money into Verisign's pockets.
And for a company with a valuable domain name it's a lot safer to pay a relatively small amount of money up front and have zero risk of the domain expiring. Remember, Microsoft has accidentally let vital domain names lapse before now !
I loathe VeriSign as a company, but this is just plain c
Company Life? (Score:5, Insightful)
The max term of a domain name lease is 10 years. Network solutions provide this 100 year lease by automatically adding an extra year to your lease on a yearly basis. If Network Solutions suddenly disappear, then your lease it left at 10 years, and you loose the other 90 years that you paid for.
T.
big internet domain crash in 100 years ? (Score:5, Insightful)
in one century I do not expect to be working any more, so procedures & knowlegde will be lost
in one century I do not expect to be able to find my Verising login/password neither my bill to renew my corporate domain name for another century
when you do not regularly work with nor do you maintain something it disapears from your thoughs.
In one century many corporations (if they live that long) will just forget to renew.
What happens if they do not renew in 100 years ? Do they disapear from the internet ? What can Verisign tell us ? Noone at verisign will be there in one century. There is really no engagment from a corp that will probably not be there in one century.
Besides, would you dare give your provider the responsability of calling you in one century to remind you you must pay ?
I would not dare that.
That total nonsense.
moreover, who can say if domain names will not be free in 30 years ? Therefore you would have paid 70 years more, will Verisign give you change ?
If that's serious news, it's probably more some kind of advertisement from Verisign than a real product. It means "we are confident we will be there in 100 years, you can trust us to register for any length of time".
Sorry mister VS I do not trust you.
Remember "washpost.com" (Score:2, Informative)
Here [internetnews.com] is an article on the event.
Depends how many people sign up (Score:2)
If enough people do it, then they will fear making them angry by just cutting it all off.
Aaaah (Score:2)
(Mad props to Futurama!)
Physical lease (Score:5, Informative)
The real problem. (Score:2)
Obligatory SouthPark reference (Score:2, Funny)
A related question then. (Score:2)
companies dont last a century.. (Score:2)
families last a century. and while a company can easily change names, this is a whole lot harder for a family.
Re:companies dont last a century.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Just another example... (Score:2, Insightful)
Why not? (Score:4, Interesting)
So why not offer 20, 50, or 100 years at $12/year? I'm sure MANY businesses will leap at this, since it's the equivalent of guaranteed online trademark protection for your single most valuable asset, your domain name and online identity.
What about WIPO removal? (Score:2)
tough deal....
have you paid for the next 98 years registration for the sumbitch that took the name away from you?
MS will bite (Score:3, Funny)
(btw, he was compesated by Ms and he resold his check at ebay).
NPV sorry for all the techies but an MBA had to.. (Score:3, Interesting)
I've seen a few comments targeted against MBA's in a few weeks and the one I saw today just was too much BS.
The argument that this is a stupid "gain money quickly move" doens't stand.
Well some people obviously have neve heard of NPV, or Net present Value of money.
Net present value gives you the value today of a series of cash flows to happen in the future.
The formula is as follows:
NPV = SUM(Cash Flow *(1+i)^-n) | Where n ranges from 1 to 99 in our case.
i is the opportunity rate. In a company money typically has a greater return value than the money market. IE you would expect money invested in a company to be more profitable than on the money market.
This means that if the money market rate is 5% than you would expect a higher internal return to compensate your risk (risk premium principle). Thus the internal rate of return of a company would be market rate+risk premium.
So the IRR could be 10% in a company.
Let's just imagine these guys at NetSol are a bunch of losers and will only offer the market return rate, or will simply put the money in government bonds at 4% (constant over 100 years for simplicity skaes).
Let's say also that the cost of a web name renewal will be $10 per year for the next 100 years (it's more likely to be more as the inflation cathces in, but heck let's keep it simple).
Even with these very pessimistic variables, the NPV of these cash flows is $306!!! Tha's a $700 profit for the Netsol guys.
So please, don't say they are making a stupid move doing this as you have no idea what you are talking about. This is a very profitable operation.
It is very likely to be a success as people will think " hey 100 years * 10 dollars = $1000. So I am not getting ditched and it is peace of mind. Let's take it"
BTW, if the NPV is $1000, than the discount rate is only 0.12%. Impossible.
This is antisocial (Score:5, Insightful)
So when I read about the 100 year domain thing, I thought, "that would be pretty great." Just pay a relatively small amount of money up front, and you're set for life.
But then I realized that there's a pretty big anti-social aspect to allowing 100 year domains. It may not be totally fair that the dotcom domain name ownership thing was a first-come, first take lottery. But we're stuck with it, and, fortunately, nobody owns a name forever -- they have to reregister each year or two or ten. If you can't make a go of flowerpots.com, then it won't be long until it goes back into the pool of unclaimed domains for somebody else to take. Well, that's sort of true anyway. I know at least one company [ultsearch.com] has arrangements with a registrar where expired names fall directly into their hands.
But anyway, my point is that there ought to be some mechanism where the scarcest property in cyberspace, dotcom names, falls back into the hands of the public if they are not being put to full use. And it's not in the public interest to allow 100-year domain names. All sorts of people will register all sorts of useful domain names, fail at making them profitable, and give up on the domain name. However, like neglected inner city property, the domain name will stay in their possession for a friggin century, and deprive the Internet community of using it for any value.
DNS Zones, a new family heirloom (Score:4, Funny)
100 year lock-in and STILL too expensive (Score:5, Insightful)
In addition to that, GoDaddy includes several services for free (domain forwarding, email forwarding) that NSI charges extra for.
Re:Hudson Bay Company (Score:3, Informative)
I suspect, however, that this is the exception that proves the rule. The only company still in existence from the original Dow Jones is GE. Everything else has been broken up or bought out [dowjones.com].