Top Web Businesses Oppose Utah Spyware Law 289
theodp writes "According to MediaPost.com: 'Some of the Web's leading content and technology providers have taken action to lobby against Utah's controversial Spyware Control Act, which is awaiting the governor's signature. Web publishers and businesses including AOL, Amazon, Cnet, eBay, Google, Microsoft, and Yahoo! signed a letter to the bill's sponsors arguing that the bill could create serious repercussions for the entire online community. The parties to the letter warned that the bill could interfere with computer security and would also impair the delivery of local, targeted ads'."
I don't think it's a big deal. (Score:5, Insightful)
Under the bill, any software that reports its users' online actions, sends personal data to other companies, or serves pop-up ads without permission is prohibited.
How hard is it to get permission? All you have to say is: "Do you want to be informed of the best deals in your area?", and %90 of people will say: "Sign me up!". Im sure it will be easy to get around this law if a company wants to. And given the profit motive, why wouldn't they?
Re:I don't think it's a big deal. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I don't think it's a big deal. (Score:2)
Re:I don't think it's a big deal. (Score:2)
Re:I don't think it's a big deal. (Score:4, Interesting)
I've got a particularly strong conspiracy theory about this. It goes like this:
1. The government should invest all the money for consumer protection in consumer education and programs to inform the public; do away with regulation; let the market make decisions.
2. Informed consumers would not simply click on something, or buy something etc.
3. Making it harder to sell things, more expensive, lowering profits.
4. So the government actually helps big business by pretending to hurt them with regulations. It doesn't abolish regulations and invest in education, empowering people to vote with their pocketbook, because it would work.
The only thing I can't figure out is if harboring this idea makes me ultra-liberal or ultra-conservative...
Re:I don't think it's a big deal. (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, it will probably be more like SPAM is today: "You gave permission to one of our 3rd party affiliates to receive this great offer (blah blah blah)".
Will a permission clause really make that big of a difference?
Re:I don't think it's a big deal. (Score:5, Funny)
Wwwyzzardd: "You have been signed up to recieve free emails about other emails."
'And the surgery to have the implant inserted in the base of your skull is almost painless'
You're not paying attention. (Score:5, Insightful)
And it takes a hell of a lot to debunk that.
The BIG one is to get shitholes like Gator to stop using "trickler" apps that reinstall the program if the user tries to remove it.
Re:You're not paying attention. (Score:2)
In some cases, it takes a hell of a lot to convince them you've changed your mind. Of course now there are good and free spyware removal tools. I've been to some sites that pop up messages that say "Javascript error: Not a Win32 environment"
Re:You're not paying attention. (Score:5, Interesting)
If I went to gator.com (or whatever their website is) and downloaded their marketing software, that would be one thing. But I haven't, and never will. My guess is 98% of people wouldn't either. I don't want to be plagued by their crap. If I wanted to be some kind of running marketing/advertising survey participant, there are places I could go to do that (e.g. NPDOR.com) As it is, I don't even plug my satellite IRD or cable receiver (yes, I have both) into the phone line b/c I don't want them reporting my viewing statistics. I am not a guinea-pig for Nielsen, and neither is my PC.
So yah, fsck MS and Yahoo! and the rest. Destroy all spy/mal-ware and tar-ball and feather the spammers! I shouldn't have to run software on my PC to find out if some asshole webmaster or programmer is hunting for my name/email/home address/surfing habits, etc. Spyware, malware and the like are just overblown viruses (and just as malicious in many cases), and should be treated by the authorities as such. If Y! can and wants to denote my viewing habits within their site, that's fine. I subscribe to their service and use their hardware. If I click on an ad link (I won't), they can track that without ever installing software or cookies on my PC. Sure, that takes some horespower from their servers and space in their DBase, but I don't recall signing up for a Y! "Help us cut costs" distributed computing project. If I should provide my real name, address, or zip code to Yahoo! (I haven't, and won't) and they say they reserve the right to use that info, that's also ok, assuming I'm made immediately aware of this in very plain text at the top of the EULA. I even fed them a nearby zip code... I don't mind that there's an ad on my email page; That's how they make their money. I still won't click-thru, but they get paid by the impression, so if they want to send me ads local to Atlanta, that's ok, just so long as they
The Internet may be the next big advertising medium (it's gotta pay for itself somehow), BUT MY PC IS NOT!
Final thought for close. It is permissible for neighborhoods and office parks, etc., to put up signs saying "No Soliciting". This means that you can't just walk onto mine or someone else's private property and harass them to buy something. People have been shot for less. There is a sign outside of my neighborhood that says "No Soliciting". Boy/Girl Scouts are ok in my book. Jehovah's Witnesses and Insurance salesmen offend me, and I don't want them at my door bugging me. The law gives me the recourse, when properly posted, to have these people fined or in some cases arrested. Used to be bulk mailin my Snail-Mail box. That was bad enough but went away with the internet (USPS must miss those days). SPAM in my email box is just as bad. But installing software/cookies without my consent (something no one will *EVER* get legitimately) is no different than a salesman violating my personal privacy and property to come into my home and pitch me stuff I don't want. I almost never watch TV. Never mind the lack of content on the tube ('cept for Stargate, Enterprise CNN/FNN, and Discovery Wings), the advertising is obnoxious... Can't even legally get a filter to tone down the volume of commericals. But I do suscribe for that content. Thank any and all G-d's that ISP's don't operate th
Re:I don't think it's a big deal. (Score:4, Interesting)
Without having RTFA (yeah, shocking, isn't it), I'd say /big/ business will fight anything they feel would be the slightest inconvenience to their business-as-usual focus on p.r.o.f.i.t.
"What?! Testing DDT before spraying it EVERYWHERE? What don't you understand: No bugs!! You friggin commie business playa-hata."
"Waddyamean cigarettes might be bad for pregnant women?? What? No, of course we don't need to test it - it's silky-smoooth isn't it?"
"Union? You're fired! Unite that, buster!"
"Our cars burst in flames, you say? For no apparent reason, huh? Well ...how 'bout that.. look, cows!"
Re:I don't think it's a big deal. (Score:2)
Re:I don't think it's a big deal. (Score:2)
That's OK. We already have a mineshaft advantage over you. I will just taken my 7 allocated women and head on down.
"Mr.President, we can't let a mineshaft gap develop."
Re:I don't think it's a big deal. (Score:3, Insightful)
AOL: I guess they target ads based on location...
Amazon: Ditto...
C|Net: Don't know here...
eBay: Maybe it traces the location of the visitor to provide the right country?
Google: AdWords, AdWords, AdWords (and a little bit of Google Toolbar, even though it says IN VERY PLAIN ENGLISH what it's going to do...)
MS: AutoUpdate, and maybe Windows Update?
Yahoo!: Don't know, but I'm not surprised that something they did fits under what this bill doesn't allow.
Politicians and technology, again. (Score:5, Interesting)
Is this yet another example of technologically illiterate politicians eagerly passing bills without bothering to find out what the law is going to do?
At first, I read the post and thought, why are all these businesses opposed to this law? It must be a good law if a lot of big corporations don't like it.
But after reading the article, I think that the legislators' efforts went off half-cocked, and they let one company write the bill to suit themselves.
I wonder why these big companies waited until after the bill passed to begin lobbying. If the governor signs the bill, isn't it going to be a lot harder to get rid of it?
I'm in favor of laws limiting spyware and adware, but I think it's important to get it right the first time. If the FTC doesn't even have a definition for spyware, it's back to the drawing board.
Utah has done this before (Score:5, Interesting)
At least thats how I remember it.
Re:Utah has done this before (Score:5, Informative)
The problem is, there were hundreds of bills that needed to be debated, and so each individual bill gets little debate time. When a technology bill comes up, the attitude they all have is "Well...I really don't know what it means. However, I have to vote on it. If nobody else raises any serious objections, I'll assume its a good bill." This bill didn't have any serious objections, and so it was quickly passed.
On a side note, the anti-UTOPIA bill was written almost solely by Qwest to kill the fiber optic plan. The bill survived the first few legal hurdles before some representatives started to actively question the bill and how it was designed by Qwest solely to kill competition. Then representatives drastically amended the bill for the better.
Re:Politicians and technology, again. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Politicians and technology, again. (Score:5, Informative)
People dont realize how epidemic this is in American politics. The politicians often don't even write the laws, they _literally_ allow companies to write the laws, and simply sign what they are given into law.
It even got to the point where laws are copyrighted, and one had to pay hundreds of dollars simply for a copy of the law. Someone posted a copy of the law online and was met with copyright complaints.
see here. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?
of course, they eventually found in Veeck's favor, http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/99/99-40
heres a slashdot article on it:
http://slashdot.org/yro/01/05/13/1921223.sht
I could also post a flurry of links regarding American fore-father's worries about the growing strength of "company" and to watch out for its influence on the government, but that would be preaching to the choir.
Re:Politicians and technology, again. (Score:5, Informative)
"For the reasons discussed above, we REVERSE the district court's judgment against Peter Veeck, and REMAND with instructions to dismiss SBCCI's claims."
Re:Politicians and technology, again. (Score:2)
Not sure what "YAW" stands for. I've seen it elsewhere but haven't come across the explanation. Can you fill me in?
Re:Politicians and technology, again. (Score:2)
You don't have to be braindead to get elected... (Score:5, Funny)
Is this yet another example of technologically illiterate politicians eagerly passing bills without bothering to find out what the law is going to do?
H2O mixup creates scare [boston.com]
I don't fault folks for not knowing what dihydrogen monoxide is, but for charging ahead, guns blazing, completely unburdened by the thought process. Sounds like presidential material to me.
Re:You don't have to be braindead to get elected.. (Score:3, Funny)
Honest Views:"I believe in America, in keeping America great, and it standing up for the core beliefs of this great nation. I believe that America is for every American, and nobody should be left behind. I believe that we must work harder than ever to preserve our freedom, build the economy, and defend America."
Voting Record:Voted YES on the WARMFUZZYBUNNY act, a law that will defend Americans from evildoers. Voted YES on the PROTECTOURECONOMY act, a splendid law that will give $10
The FTC is clueless (Score:2)
The first time I ran into adware, I got pretty ticked off about it. I was running a pop-up killer, yet I was still getting pop ups, at Google and my bank even.
Google put a link on their page "Why Google doesn't use pop-ups", I clicked it, and I read all about [ad/spy]ware. I quickly discovered Ad-Aware, and remov
Smoke & Mirrors (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, the parties to the letter warned that the bill could interfere with computer security by preventing information technology and security companies from collecting data to analyze and prevent virus attacks, and would also impair the delivery of local, targeted ads.
If they are that concerned about security they could have AV companies include a [X] "Report viruses to Foo.com AV Central" option to eliminate that minor complaint and be compliant with the new law. As for targetted ads.. well, that's what they're really concerned about. It's a multi-million (billion?) dollar industry. Screaming about how bad the bill is for security is just a smoke and mirrors game.
I only hope that the spyware people don't go after the AdAware [lavasoftusa.com] or Spybot Search & Destroy [safer-networking.org] folks under the guise of the DMCA.
The way things today are going though..
Re:Smoke & Mirrors (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Smoke & Mirrors (Score:2, Insightful)
i don't think they can go after them with the DMCA. the adware removing programs usually just watch what is being installed and then devise a way to remove what is phoning home.
then they offer way to remove it with an update to thier consumer product. there is really nothing more going on here. other that watching network trafic for somthignthats not supposed to be there and t
Hmm... (Score:4, Interesting)
Do they believe that later legislation will "restrict" even more things that affect their buisness, or do they sponsor spyware?
Re:Hmm... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hmm... (Score:3, Insightful)
Google's a great company for offering an unbiased search with small, tasteful text ads, and for sustaining the newsgroup archives many of us still call DejaGoogle.
So we tend to see Google as one of the "good guys". And to some extent, they are one of the good guys.
That said, Google also records the IP address and the search term of each Google search, potentially amassing a great deal of pr
If you think that... (Score:5, Insightful)
[OffTopic]Re:If you think that... (Score:2, Insightful)
Not true.... I'm a NRA card carrying, Whitetail hunting, handgun owning Independant. The way I see things currently is Bush is killing free speach and needs to get out of office!!
Re:[OffTopic]Re:If you think that... (Score:3, Informative)
At the time, there was very little difference between civilian and military firearms. To be logically consistant would require the government to en
Re:[OffTopic]Re:If you think that... (Score:2, Informative)
The problem is most anti gun laws make restrictions were there should be none. I can understand not having a convicted criminal posessing guns but an underlying freedom in this country is the ability to have firearms. when someone starts saying you don't need a gunn like that they are effectivly saying you don't need the freedom or types of free
There's a Difference (Score:3, Interesting)
Having said that, I'm not sure legislation is the best way to take care of this. Can't we use existing laws in court to fight spyware?
Re:There's a Difference (Score:2)
definition of Spyware (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:definition of Spyware (Score:5, Funny)
Re:definition of Spyware (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
local, targeted ads? (Score:5, Funny)
So, since I live in Wisconsin, I should be seeing tons of ads for cheese and beer..?
Re:local, targeted ads? (Score:5, Funny)
So, since I live in Wisconsin, I should be seeing tons of ads for cheese and beer..?
What about those folks that live in Dildo, Newfoundland [nationmaster.com]?
Never mind the fact that it's located right next to Spread Eagle...
Re:local, targeted ads? (Score:2)
Re:local, targeted ads? (Score:5, Funny)
No, you should be seeing travel brochures.
Yes, well... (Score:5, Insightful)
- Refuse most cookies
- Block malicious servers with HOSTS files
- Mozilla (Block Images from Selected Server)
- Spybot/Ad-Aware (If in Windows)
Althought admittedly, this phrase is interesting:
"Under the bill, any software that reports its users' online actions, sends personal data to other companies, or serves pop-up ads without permission is prohibited. It does contain certain exceptions that some industry analysts have deemed "self-contradictory," such as "cookies" used for personalizing Web pages, and ads served by HTML or JavaScript."
That completely outlaws a crapwad of software there.
However, as a lot of spyware is non-U.S. in origin, it won't curb all of it.
Re:Yes, well... (Score:4, Informative)
Here's a hint, though - a changed WWW prefix to ehttp.cc. CoolWebSearch.
So broad, anti-adware and kid-proofing is spyware! (Score:5, Insightful)
(c) use a context based triggering mechanism to display an advertisement that partially or wholly covers or obscures paid avertising or other content on an Internet website in a way that interferes with a user's ability to view the Internet website.
That could be read to say program that removes any part of the website from the user's view and replaces it with either something else or even plain nothingness is prohibited. So many non-spyware user-friendly uses of technology could get caught in the crossfire...
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
Re:So broad, anti-adware and kid-proofing is spywa (Score:2)
Re:So broad, anti-adware and kid-proofing is spywa (Score:3, Funny)
So under this, would Pop-Under Ads be okay? Are MDI and child windows illegal under this bill? Woohoo! The "About Internet Explorer" popup in the help menu is illegal! Hell, the menu itself is illegal if it obscures the web
Re:So broad, anti-adware and kid-proofing is spywa (Score:2)
Flawed laws (Score:3, Insightful)
Kiss your Internet companies goodbye... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't like the laws of the jurisdiction you're setting up an Internet company, it's far too easy to set up shop in a more friendly jurisdiction. With this law being clearly written by somebody who isn't bothering to carve out a nice safe territory for targeted ads, Utah will basically lose any bit of the Internet content industry it has left to other states.
effect on computer security (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:effect on computer security (Score:2)
That's a warning? (Score:2)
Isn't that the point? That's a warning? I hope it's a promise. I'll keep my computer secure, thanks, I don't need someone like MS telling me how to do it.
Oh boo hoo, cry me a river. (Score:5, Interesting)
Find another way to make money, I am not buying their defense of Spyware/Adware one bit.
Localized Internet Laws (Score:3, Interesting)
With the Internet being what it is, how do we effectively enforce such things? Seems like a lot of chest-pumping without much effect. More politicians posturing? So how can local laws be enforced on a global community? (besides pissing enough people off to get the DMCA slapped on you and ruin your US travel itinerary a la Dmitri)
Re:Localized Internet Laws (Score:4, Insightful)
The whole issue centers around the issue or Nexis in law. (The Connection) So long as the law allows that you are connected or had contact with the Plaintiff you are subject to the laws he has. It would seem that since the webpage is deliberately placed in a media and advertized in a way such as to affect the actions of a person in this or that jurisdiction it comes under the law.
The problem is that the EU for example does not honor UTAH warrants like the 49 other US States do. So this really only applies inside the USA. The Netherlands tried to apply jurisdiction as did Belgium to the whole world over "War Crimes" recently. It almost worked but the USA had other ideas on the matter and turned some screws and that died.
The real issue here is that the Business pushing the spam is selling goods inside the USA so it pretty much comes under the Nexis of US Courts and Laws. It would take a simple act of US Law forbidding the collection of any foreign debt which was incurred outside of US Laws and the Spammers would be out of MONEY.
If any US State simply forbid the collection of Credit Cards and Payments of Debits with Triplicate Damages plus Legal the Money guys would get in line. (Same as US Fair Debt Collection Practices Act of 1979)
CNET Article on state anti-spyware bills (Score:3, Insightful)
The result, after some negotiation and input from Net companies, is a bill that bars companies from installing software that reports its users' online actions, sends any personal data to other companies, or pops up advertisements without permission. It contains some loopholes: Advertisements served by ordinary HTML or JavaScript are exempted, as are the ordinary "cookies" often used to help personalize Web pages.
I still don't see how this is bad. Sure it has 'enforcement' issues, but it carries a $10,000 fine, it might serve as a good deterrent.
My Favorite Part!! (Score:4, Funny)
(i) actual damages; or
(ii) $10,000 for each separate violation of this chapter.
(3) In an action under Subsection (1), a court may:
(a) increase the damages up to three times the damages allowed by Subsection (2) if the court finds the defendant willfully or knowingly violated this chapter; and
(b) award costs and reasonable attorney fees to a prevailing party.
---
1: Download adware
2: Sue
3: Profit!!!!
---
Bahama vacation here I come!
Re:My Favorite Part!! (Score:2)
1: Download adware
2: Sue
3: Profit!!!!
Sorry pal, but on the Internet, adware downloads you...
Re:My Favorite Part!! (Score:2)
It's funny, the average adaware results I've seen for "moron" computer users is 100-150 removed spyware's. So for _EVERY_ computer that's a $1,000,000 violation (at least!).
Hello children, can you say "class action suit", I know you can!
"TOP WEB BUSINESSES OPPOSE UT SPYWARE LAW" (Score:4, Insightful)
The NRA is against gun control laws.
Anti-abortionist demonstrated at an abortion clinic.
Muslim extremists sent threatening letters.
The stock market is crashing.
And the sky is falling...
Claria (Score:4, Informative)
What are they smoking? Claria is spyware [com.com].
Let me control my own computer! (Score:5, Insightful)
* It's my computer, bought and paid for.
* It's my software, bought and paid for (and/or acquired free, legally).
* It's my bandwidth, bought and paid for (on a monthly basis).
Let me decide what to do with it.
If I want to load up my HD with bloatware, spyware, malware or whatever, as long as it harms no one else... who the hell cares?
If, on the other hand, I want to run my system cleanly, block out all malware sources with a HOSTS file, install anti-spyware and anti-virus software and do whatever else I see fit... again... who the hell cares?
It's my choice to run my computer and my software to twiddle my own bits as I damn well see fit.
If the government doesn't know anything about what the hell it is regulating, it out to stay the hell out of trying to do anything with it.
Re:Let me control my own computer! (Score:2, Informative)
It is your computer, bought and paid for.
As for the software, you're simply leasing a copy of it. You don't buy it. What you're purchasing is the distribution media and a license to use the software. (Which license, by the way, can be revoked at any time, according to many software companies terms of use.)
Your bandwidth is likewise leased, unless you happen to buy and bury the cable yourself, and even then you have to connect *somewhere*.
Re:Let me control my own computer! (Score:3, Informative)
Basically the law says you can't sell Drain-O at a lemonade stand, not that you can't drink it on your own if you want to.
Re:Let me control my own computer! (Score:2)
I hate ads as much as the next guy, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Biased Article (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not sure whether this is supposed to be actual "news" or just a PR release. I know nothing about the actual bill, but this article definitely did not help me understand it. Why is Slashdot covering such a biased piece?
Send A Public Comment to the FTC (Score:3, Interesting)
Turns out the FTC is gonna be hosting Spyware workshop here in DC in April. FTC Workshop Information [ftc.gov]
The workshop is titled Monitoring Software on Your PC: Spyware, Adware, and Other Software and will take place on April 19, 2004. It is open to the public and there is no attendance fee.
On the site is information on how to submit a public comment to the records of the event.
Re:Send A Public Comment to the FTC (Score:2)
Yes.. add a clause mentioning the use of cruel and inhuman torture and/or cruise missiles.
Your browser is now spyware (Score:2, Interesting)
Which means that your browser, which routinely sends each web site you visit a referring URL, is spyware in Utah.
Well, except for Internet Explorer, that is. Since IE is part of the operating system, it is excepted from the definition of s
Windows XP - Illegal. (Score:2)
I DO think this is a big deal. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I DO think this is a big deal. (Score:2)
Re:I DO think this is a big deal. (Score:2)
Depending on your definition of "spyware", I might agree. I would think a large amount of spyware is already illegal under various laws that prohibit tampering and unauthorized access.
Otherwise, don't be surprised when, say, Google starts telling you, "Sorry, we just tried to install our 'tracking' software on your system and failed. Please take your searches elsewhere."
If I own a website, why shouldn't I be allowed to grant access to only those clients I choose?
Re:I DO think this is a big deal. (Score:2, Interesting)
Simular to the spam debait (Score:3, Insightful)
I hate spam as much as everyone else. I have a series of filters I use to get rid of as much as possiable. Even then, it only works about 98% of the time.
If I install AIM, they have a little bar that shows ads. That doesn't bother me. I get a free service from them, then just have to have a SMALL add in the "buddy list". Small price to pay.
What I don't agree with, is companys that install spyware without telling you about it. They NEED to say they are going to install it, and when you uninstall the application, the spyware needs to be uninstalled as well.
Another thing, which is how they get you to install there spyware. I had a problem a while back, I went to some silly joke website. It asked if I wanted to install Macromadia Flash. (Notice the spelling) Since this was a new latop, I said sure. From that day on, every 12 hours and everytime the laptop booted up. It would ask if I wanted to install "free scratch cards". Funny, there is a EULA, and an accept button. No decline / cancel / exit button, no close button, etc.
Everytime you would delete the file, it would reappear a few hours later. Still to this day, I can't figure out how to get rid of it. I did however find a way to disable it, but its still on my machine.
That should be illegal. You should be required to tell the user WHAT they are REALLY installing. Misspelling company names and what not should be considered as fraud. Bundling spyware with other freeware apps without mentioning this to the user should also be illegal.
Hijacking browsers and making it very difficult to change, or reset should also be illegal. I had a friend of mine whos machine was taking over so bad, that is browser only had 1 inputbox. No back and forward arrows, no stop or refresh. Just a inputbox which submits to a spyware search engine. Which interestingly enough returned the SAME results as google, even had the same style. The difference is, the names where changed and there was ads ALL over the place. It was so bad, that a reinstall of windows was the best option.
I don't have a problem with ads on freeware apps. As long as
1) I am told about it
2) When I uninstall the freeware app, the spyware goes along.
3) It doesn't damage my system by hijacking it.
4) There isn't fraud as to the source of the application or its install methods.
IANAL - but add 1 friggen ,+word+, (Score:2)
[If you attempted to RTFB, you understand...]
Then simply changing 5
`Friggen' resolves the 'so broad it gets benevolen
Interfere with local, targeted ads? (Score:3, Funny)
Gee, wouldn't THAT suck. Allowing people to use the 'Net without constant harrassment from marketers would surely provoke an outcry from the outraged Net populace.
It seems ok as far as Utah laws go (Score:2, Insightful)
"The parties to the letter warned that the bill could interfere with computer security and would also impair the delivery of local, targeted ads."
Yeah, THAT'S THE POINT. The law will not interfere with computer security. The law will cause most major companies to have to resort to 3rd party gator-like advertisements which will affect computer security. What a way to spin it!
I wonder how many people read the legislation? (Score:2, Informative)
I hate ads as much as most people, but I know of people who do actually use
Opposition for a reason (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh no? (Score:2)
Can't they come up with something more significant? Oh no! my ads aren't targeted! quick format the HD!
The real issue... (Score:5, Interesting)
Nothing about "privacy", it's more simple than that. It all comes down to who owns the machine... who is accountable for what it does, and who has authority of what it does.
Spyware is all about authority, without accountability. Period.
In real life, though you cannot have one without the other. Consider the typical business, or household setup - you have...
a) A hardware device, and Dad (or the sysadmin) owns it. He's the one the feds will arrest, first, when his IP address is linked to a pile of kiddy porn.
b) Software licenses, owned by the licensee. Note that this person is *not* usually the same dude as the hardware owner... consider co-locations, or consider the game that Mom bought, to put on Dad's machine, for little 5 year old Billy to play.
c) Users. These are the people who actually use the software, in concert with the hardware. Note that they own neither.
You can see how authority, and especially accountability, come into play. Little Billy has no accountability, therefore he cannot have any authority. Giving him authority means he can bind Dad into any license agreements that come down the pike; despite that Dad may have explicitly forbidden such agreements.
Likewise, Mom only has authority over the software license. She has no implicit rights to any of the hardware... she cannot loan it to a friend, sell it, lease clock time, or whatever. She can do whatever the hell she wants with the license, however, because it's hers... which includes letting Billy take one of her seats. Billy cannot reassign the seat she's given him, however, unless she agrees. After all, come License Violation Time, it'll be enforced against HER, not Billy.
Same goes for the hardware - when all is said and done, Dad (or whoever owns the hardware) is going to be implicated.
The perfect world respects this setup. In fact, it adds another layer - the Network Guy.
The Network Guy owns all the cables, switches, routers that connect the machines to whatever. In the perfect world, he hates everyone... bandwidth is precious, and every packet is metered and paid for in blood. He has the right, since HE OWNS IT, to demand only certain types of traffic occur, and he has the right to demand that noone may deviate from his plan.
The hardware owner pays the blood to the network guy, and he hates him for it. He also hates the software licencees - they're forever encumbering his machines, and he doesn't do it lightly. In fact, he demands (since HE OWNS THEM) that noone has any right to install anything, nor bind him to nor involve his hardware with any EULAs or whatever, period. CPU and drive assets are precious commodities, and those machines exist exactly to fulfill HIS purpose, and noone else's. He also hates the network guy, since the network guy is forever allowing packets to bounce off his NIC - which the machine reacts to, and causes an unauthorized change in state in the machine. The network guy has no right to cause such changes, unless the hardware owner has specifically agreed that those types of changes are allowed. The hardware guy is only allowed to cause specific changes in state of specific pieces of the network, and the networ guy is only allowed to cause specific changes in state of specific hardware devices.
The software licensee is hated by all, and hates them all back. This person has no home, and has no implicit rights to anything other than, exactly, delegation of the licensed seat(s). This person is free to agree to whatever EULAs, terms restrictions, mortgage payments, or other encumberances... all day long, it matters not. However, they have no right to any of the hardware, nor any of the network - both of those resources must be negotiated for, separately. Both the hardware owner and the network guy will refuse to be bound by any terms in the license, since they have no interest in it, and both refuse to delegate any of their authority to the licensee. After all, she's a Typhoid Mary.
F
Fines, not bans. (Score:2)
I want a law that imposes HUGE fines for companies who do. If they wanna clog up the internet with this crap, fine, but the company who's products/services are being solicited should pay about 0.001% of the total dollar value of the company for every popup/banner/etc. At least half of this fine should go to the people whose property and time are being invaded and wasted. And none of that "oh, we had their permission to do this" bullshit. Nobody knowingly instal
Re:Free Software. (Score:3, Insightful)
BS. IF linux gets adopted by the mainstream desktop market, you can bet your ass that spyware will quickly follow. And the mainstream desktop users will be just as helpless and unable to stop it as they are now.
Re:Free Software. (Score:2)
Only if the software in question is closed source, and hence not Free, would this situation continue. In a Free situation, it is possi
Re:Free Software. (Score:2)
Hey man, just because Linux is Open-sourced, doesn't mean that apps (read: potential spyware) that runs on it is open-source. Do you
Re:Free Software. (Score:2)
You are right. But the orininal poster seemed be talking about Free software. Software is "Free", if, among other things, source code is freely available. I'm well aware of binary distribution of applications for Linux. I was speaking theoretically, to continue the original posters use of "Free".
However, it i
Re:Free Software. (Score:2)
However, what chance is there that some adware company would release Free Software? They'd most likely package it up in someone elses binary like they already do.
In the case of linux though, and many other multiuser, acce
wrong (Score:4, Insightful)
Monkey Wrench in the Works (Score:2, Interesting)
But then, requiring all stuff open source would remove a lot of incentive for doing a lot of specialized stuff.
I have no problem with something like a core algorithm for a motor control being proprietary, or maybe databases - but I feel strongly that one requirement that should go in exchange for the legal mandate of keeping my nose out of it is that it be very clear that the responsibility for what the code does
Re:Yeah (Score:4, Insightful)
I may be alone here, but personally I never really minded ads, and sometimes I actually miss those plain old static banners. Every now and then I'd click on one if it was something that caught my interest, and I even managed to pick up some decent bargains occasionally. As a matter of fact, I never even considered blocking any ads until they became so distracting that I couldn't read a sites content for fear of retinal burn from all the obnoxious flashing going on, so now I simply block everything I can.
Google provides local targeted ads (Score:2)
Re:Oh no! (Score:2)
These companies have a clue, and they do understand why people use pop-up and image server blockers.
Unfotunately, they do not see this as an issue of user rights, but of instead view this as purely a business issue. They define the blocking of advertising as a damaging practice that is limiting the internets potential value as an revenue generator for business (because, of course, the only reason to
Re:Gave the bill a quick read ... (Score:2)
And the lack of indentation for the lists making it harder to follow the logic.
I have a cleaned up version, but this site won't let me nest lists as deep as this bill does (3 vs. 5). So here's a temporary mirror [war-of-the-worlds.org]. Pardon the uncentered headers.