PayPal Settles NY Probe, But Faces Others 218
Coneasfast writes "PayPal, which is owned by eBay, has admitted misleading shoppers into believing it offered credit-card-style protection and has agreed to pay $150,000 to settle charges. There are many sites out there which are dedicated to the problems of paypal, including PayPalSucks and PaypalWarning."
Reader ipandithurts links to this related Reuters story, pointing out that the New York investigation isn't the only PalPal probe: "PayPal's practice of suspending users accounts while investigating suspicious transactions continues to be review by the FTC. While the rate of fraudulent PayPal transactions is less than one-half of one percent, the volume of more than $12.2 billion last year keeps Paypal caught in the middle of many disputes."
I'm done (Score:5, Interesting)
People I know have told be about nightmares with PayPal, but until this post I didn't realize it was so prevalent. I just closed my account, I really dislike the idea that PayPal can simply choose at will to freeze assets in any associated account.
Re:I'm done (Score:5, Interesting)
I think at some point we all just need to re-evaluate what we consider a bank in the modern age. I continually fail to see how Paypal is not a bank and thus regulated by all of the same government policy.
I've heard the arguments and they just don't make sense. On the Internet some things do need new definitions since they don't reflect world realities.Re:I'm done (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, any fraudster is going to claim "I didn't do it!" and demand that PayPal send him his money immediately when he's found out and his account is frozen.
Re:I'm done (Score:3, Insightful)
In the case of a dispute then they need a way to prove one side acted in the wrong. The means the burden lies on the person making the complaint. If such evidence is brought forth then they should procede with a fraud investigation. But of course, Paypal isn't a bank so the rules are very different.
That said Paypal should in no way have the ability to freeze your a
Re:I'm done (Score:2)
Re:I'm done (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah, sure their practices are dubious at best, but you *did* agree to the license agreement (Let's not go there).
Transfer your money out regularly, don't keep too much in the account at any time, and vet your buyers just as they'd vet you (That's what eBay feedback is for!)
Re:I'm done (Score:2)
The only thing that would then be wrong is the fact that they ultimately always side with Merchants. Complaints go unanswered and that is a real problem if someone has been a victim of fraud.
Re:I'm done (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I'm done (Score:2)
Yeah, they only freeze accounts where there's some indication of wrong doing, or if it's for a website that criticizes PayPal, or if it's a site that sells adult items, or even just has adult material for free but accepts donations.
Re:I'm done (Score:5, Informative)
The reason that so many seem to be confused about PayPal not being a bank is because so few people actually understand what a bank really is, or why they are regulated. Most people seem to believe that you give the bank your money, the bank puts it in a vault someplace, and when you want it back, they take it back out of the vault and give it to you. This is essentially what PayPal does, but it is not at all what a bank does. The reason that Paypal is not a bank, and not covered under current banking laws is two-fold.
Current banking laws, the world over, are generally the result of banking and savings and loan crashes and failures. These resulted in many people losing all or part of the money they had invested in the bank. The way that a bank works is that you deposit your money into an account. The bank then loans your money to someone else. When that person repays thier loan, the bank takes a portion of the interest that person paid (her cost for getting the loan) and gives a portion to you as an interest payment on your account. [Non-interest bearing or monthly fee accounts being a way for you to let them use your money for free is an entirely different rant.] Now while they are loaning out your money, you may want to actually use it to buy something. So banks use a pot of un-loaned money to give you back what you deposited when you request it. It should be obvious that there are [primarily] two glaring problems with this set-up. First, if the bank makes a loan to someone who doesn't pay it back, and the person who's money they loaned out wants to withdraw it, the bank has to get that money from the pot of un-loaned money and pay it back later from the banks portion of the interest payments from other loans. If many, many people fail to pay back thier loans this creates a major squeeze on that pot of un-loaned money, and it could run out. The second problem occurs if the first has happened, or is even rumored to possibly be happening. Since the pot of un-loaned money must be significantly smaller than the total deposits for the bank to actually make a profit, and it is in the banks best interest to keep that amount as small as possible (in other words, as much money loaned out and earning interest as possible), situations have happened where people wanted thier money, and the bank didn't actually have that much on hand. This led to runs on banks, and bank failures, and lots of people losing money.
Thus we have banking laws. Almost all banking regulations deal with how large the pot of un-loaned money has to be that a bank is required to keep, with how a bank decides who to loan money to, and how much risk they are allowed to take, or with reporting procedures to make sure that the banks are complying with the above criteria.
Since PayPal never loans money, and all money that is listed in your account is actually on hand for them to pay you at any point, they fall outside almost all of the regulations that banks must follow.
The other thing that people seem to beleive, which boggles my mind, is that banks have regulations against freezing your account if they think there is suspicious activity on the account. In fact, there are no laws or regulations that say they have to give your money back in a specific time period. If they think that there is suspicious or criminal activity they can, and in some cases are required by law to freeze your account and sometimes even confiscate your money. [Al-qaeda, terrorist fund-raising organizations, drug cartels, human trafficing, other fraud, etc.] If they decide to do this, you have no recourse other than to sue them. Exactly the same as PayPal. (This is particularly U.S. centric, since banking laws vary considerably around the world.)
In fact, if PayPal were to be placed under banking laws, the only impact that would have on them is a tremendously higher burden of federal paperwork. As long as they do not make loans, almost none of the other regulations would af
Re:I'm not done (Score:2)
Re:I'm done (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I'm done (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I'm done (Score:4, Interesting)
Ship tangible goods
Since comparable widely-accepted proof-of-shipment methods are not currently available for intangible goods and services, the Seller Protection Policy does not cover digital goods and other electronically-delivered items.
So what do I do now? The buyer never responded to my e-mail upon purchase, they did in fact download the software (server logs prove it)
Re:I'm done (Score:3, Interesting)
if you dont have paypal, you don't get to buy from me. they give me protections as a seller that nobody else can.
I have never bheen screwed on paypal, but I know their rules (read them before signing up and read them 2 times a year) most people that are pissed at them didn't bother to read the rules or were stupid and tried to use paypal like a bank... they are NOT a bank.
I attribute the
Re:I feel the problem is (Score:2)
Re:I feel the problem is (Score:2)
Either way, I'm business now, which explains why I don't know about their current personal support numbers.
PayPal... (Score:5, Insightful)
I can see, however, how they have been misleading, in all my uses of PayPal I assumed that there was credit-card style protection (as I was using a credit-card) and they should make it more evident at the very least that the actual protection is not on par with a normal credit card purchase over the internet.
Re:PayPal... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:PayPal... (Score:5, Informative)
PayPal reserves 60 days to "investigate" the dispute before ruling--just enough time for your credit card issuer's statute of limitations for claims to run out. Avoid PayPal if you can.
(Avoid eBay seller 'zmish' as well.)
Re:PayPal... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:PayPal... (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course Paypal succeeded because of its partnership with ebay, and thus allowed ebay to further exalt its convenience by such a simple utility.
However, at heart, Paypal just seems to be the well-dressed, charming schiester that you think is completely trustworthy, but you realize the whole time is just a fraud. Expensive suit, nothing to back his promises.
Small amount, folks (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously, if it's over a hundred bucks or so (definitely if it's into the thousands), I'd seriously consider using an escrow service and paying the percentage... though dedicated fraudsters have gone so far as to set up fakes. [216.239.37.104]
I tend to treat paypal as a convenient money order service for small-ticket items... if I lose, no big deal.
Clearing up a troubled past... (Score:5, Insightful)
When eBay got involved, they started cleaning up some of PayPal's worst policies, but there's still a few more that need tweaking, and eBay has inherited a lot of trouble from the laws PayPal broke in the late 90s. I'm glad they're starting to settle these things...
Re:Clearing up a troubled past... (Score:4, Insightful)
I think there needs to be some regulating body. There is just too much money floating around blindly.
Re:Clearing up a troubled past... (Score:4, Interesting)
Unless, of course, the untrusted utility is paypal itself, as appears to be the case.
Re:Clearing up a troubled past... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Clearing up a troubled past... (Score:2, Insightful)
NOTE (a little caveat): If it's over $250, don't use USPS. You need online signature tracking, which is a pain, but it _is_ documented in the policy. If you want someone to cover the chargebacks for you, you should at least read the policy.
For merchants with a Merchant Account, guess what? When there is a chargeback, they take the money out too. Plus, you have to wait 2 weeks to a month to get it in the first place.
Re:Clearing up a troubled past... (Score:4, Insightful)
Why? If I wanted to sell a Computer system on Ebay, it could easily go for a few thousand. Note everyone is selling cookie jars.
This is just as bad as the Police taking your money "Because it could be drug money" if you have over 10 thousand dollars. People still deal with cash and money transfers daily.
Re:Clearing up a troubled past... (Score:2)
Re:Clearing up a troubled past... (Score:2)
There's more than a few old people (and their children) alive in this country who remember the bank closures in the midst of the stock market crash. "FDIC" is less than a hundred years old.
I don't NEED a legitimate reason (Score:2)
Re:Clearing up a troubled past... (Score:2)
why should paypal expect not not play bhy the rules that the feds set up decades ago?
NO, doesnt deserve looking into (Score:5, Insightful)
No I'm not blind to the fact its taking place, but that doesn't make it any less wrong.
Private law abiding citizens should not be investigated on a whim by the 'authorities'
Re:Clearing up a troubled past... (Score:4, Insightful)
I disagree COMPLETELY. If your are not the subject of an investigation, or not sending/receiving money from someone who is, I think what you do with YOUR MONEY is no business of the government's.
Re:Clearing up a troubled past... (Score:2)
Have you done your taxes yet?
Re:Clearing up a troubled past... (Score:2)
Yup. By the way, if someone were being looked at for tax evasion, they would fall under the category of "subject of an investigation," right? Then the nice treasury agent could get a warrant and look at their financials all he wanted to.
Drug dealer and terrorist are just scary words to get people to support the gutting of that pesky 4th amendment.
Oh no3z they friezed my account!!!11one (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Oh no3z they friezed my account!!!11one (Score:2)
Since PayPal/eBay readily hand over any requested information to the Feds this "right to monitor" is hardly necessary. Here's a direct quote from Joseph E. Sullivan, Director of Compliance and Law Enforcement Relations, Senior Counsel, Trust and Safety for eBay [yale.edu]:
Paypal is a great concept... (Score:5, Informative)
I have been using paypal for a number of years and only had one issue with them. A guy lost a part for a record player I sold him, then tried to demand his money back claiming I never sent the part with the item ( i did ). He simply reversed charges on his cc and paypal did the same to me, tanking my account to -$1200. I had over 100 transactions with paypal -- this guy?? 0! and I was the one who was guilty.
Re:Paypal is a great concept... (Score:2)
Re:Paypal is a great concept... (Score:2, Funny)
It's the law with credit cards (Score:3, Interesting)
By the way, you'll be glad it is if you are ever on the other end of the stick. I got my car fixed at a Pep Boys to the tune of $650. Drove it out
Re:It's the law with credit cards (Score:2)
I was really pissed. Even more pissed when they said "oh, you need $200 more work done". Hell no, not going for htat.
Re:It's the law with credit cards (Score:2)
You need to find another garage shop.
Re:Paypal is a great concept... (Score:2)
nice to see you put the blame where it belonged.
I'm thinking that paypal should disallow people to accept credit card payments until they sign a agreement that educates them.
I.E. if you are NOT a company and understand the credit card proceedure AND how to use paypal seller protection. (you DID send the item only to a verified address?) then you should never take a credit card payment. credit cards are fickle, the asshat holding it can screw with you d
Fees (Score:4, Funny)
PayPalDamon (Score:5, Informative)
forced upgrade (Score:5, Interesting)
I have a big problem with the fact that after using paypal to pay some set dollar amount that the account is suspended until I give them a checking account number. I don't want to give them this information... I just want to use the service to pay for something. I don't want to use it for a checking account or anything like that. And you can't use a credit card for more than account... so basically if you don't want to send them information that credit card becomes useless. If I was a regular user with just one e-mail address, there would be no way around this at all, even with other credit cards.
Their practices leave a hell of a lot be desired... give us your info or we'll make you jump through hoops or just not service you at all. Gee.. I wonder if they sell or use that info in questionable ways.. ya think?
Re:forced upgrade (Score:5, Informative)
Case in point- netbank, a real fdic insured bank- open an account with very little money, and list it with paypal.. they will make the required pair of deposits into netbank, and you can report the amounts-- netbank REFUSES to allow paypal to withdraw from their account holders.... voila- problem solved (works for me)
I only put money into netbank with paypal
Re:forced upgrade (Score:2)
Thanks for the tip! Paypal is a necessary evil, but this helps a lot.
Re:forced upgrade (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:forced upgrade (Score:3, Informative)
The problem is fraud (Score:5, Informative)
Now the problem is, if someone commits a fradulant transaction, the seller is basically SOL if they shipped the goods. The person who's card was stolen isn't liable as per CC law, so the chargeback goes to the seller. Not a huge problem if you are a large merchant, you send it over to accounts receavable, legal, and your loss prevention group. If they find the guy, you sue him for what you lost. A much bigger deal for joe average who does not have these resources.
So, to try and protect sellers and convince them that PayPal is safe to use, they do things like this. Once PayPal has you bank info and has confirmed it, they can say with a much greater degree of confidence that you are who you claim to be. It's still not certian, of course, but much harder than just ripping off someone's CC#.
Ya, it's a pain for those of us that obey the law, but it's a necessary evil of online transactions. I jump through a lot of hoops for my buyers, I'm verified with PayPal and eBay, and I'm indipendantly verified by Equifax. It was a pain, but it helps put people at ease that I'm not going to rip them off.
Re:The problem is fraud (Score:4, Interesting)
There's a trade-off to be taken into consideration before credit card companies freeze your card. If you are legitimately using your credit card in an "abnormal" manner, you can be stuck with a frozen card. This has happened to me twice. The day after I received a new AMEX card, I went out of state on business travel. Naturally, AMEX thought it was suspicious that a card mailed to AZ on a Monday was being used in CA on a Thursday. It took me a long time to convince them that I was on the level.
Later, after not using my AMEX card for months, I charged a lot of money in CA. Next thing you know, my card is being declined and I can't even fill up my gas tank anymore.
Re:The problem is fraud (Score:3, Insightful)
Keep a low balance (Score:3, Funny)
A company should be transparent (Score:2, Interesting)
I think the Feds should be spending more time investigating Paypal's practices.
Not necessarily good, but necessary? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Not necessarily good, but necessary? (Score:2, Insightful)
What do you expect? If two months down the line Paypal decides that they never fixed it on there own and that you must have withdrawn the money yourself so now you owe them the $2K, you have nothing to prove that they ever did anything about it. By not acknowledging you, they are keeping as many options open as possible.
Sounds just about right (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Sounds just about right (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sounds just about right (Score:2)
Re:Sounds just about right (Score:2)
If you as a buyer want purchase protection, Paypal tries to sell it to you at a additional charge (physical goods only). The fact
Credit Card companies and PayPal (Score:4, Interesting)
PayPal is under fire because it's so common nowadays that when you buy things online via some sort of money-service, you are entitled to such privilege, ie auto charge back should you complain about it.
PayPal in this case is wrong for misleading customers, they should have come clean and stated clearly that they don't do charge back.
Imagine if we didn't have this 'charge-back' facility in the world as we know it, and suddenly Visa charged back a merchant's account without stating it clearly in its T&C, I'm sure Visa will be in deep water too.
how is 0.5% insignificant? (Score:5, Insightful)
If 1 out of every 200 transactions is fraudulent, I'd say that's a big problem, not a small problem, regardless of the total number of transactions.
Depends (Score:5, Insightful)
Stastics are useful only in a greater context. My favourite example:
Nearly ALL deaths due to cancer happen only in developed countries. Cancer-caused deaths in the third world are quite rare. So, clearly, there is something evil in the developed world that causes cancer, right?
Wrong. The reason is, of course, people in the third world die of something else before cancer ever has a chance to kill them, malaria is a huge killed, for example. Well there are almost no malaria cases in the United States, since we can easily cure it. Given our ability to cure more basic killers, you get the more advanced and difficult stuff like cancer that eventually gets someone.
So this percentage isn't really relivant unless you can cite the larger picture of online fraud. If 10% of online transactions are fradulant and only 0.5% of PayPal ones are, then PayPal is doing a bangup job.
Re:Depends (Score:2)
I've read that losses due to fraud are between $1 and $2 billion for a $200 billion dollar industry.
If the figures are correct, it means that Paypal is 5x more prone to fraud than Visa. This scares me considering I have had two incidents with my card (once stolen and the other an online error thanks to Visa in Germany billing the wrong number.)
Paypal alternatives (Score:5, Informative)
Probably the best one I've encountered is Neteller [neteller.com]. Especially if you're planning on using this to sell stuff, Neteller is much better than Paypal (weekly settlements of the amount in your account in excess of the pre-set "float" are done via check sent through FedEx, for instance).
I'll be deploying Neteller soon for taking online payments.
Re:Paypal alternatives - a list of several (Score:2, Informative)
A good comparison chart is here [dgcworld.com].
BTW, I see that magnatune.com [magnatune.com] supports one of these now, but ebay is still PayPal only - no surprise.
Paypal founder (Score:2, Interesting)
The idea originally started out as a way for roomates to "beam" money to each other using their PDA's, which at the time was early model Palm Pilots. It evolved into one of the largest online payment schemes available. Anything at this p
Paypal and EBAY combined = scamalicious! (Score:4, Informative)
Did EBay do anything when we reported it? NOPE!
And Paypal payments are not protected despite any reassuring sounds they make. We used to sell on EBay but have stopped, in part because of the risk of getting scammed big-time and not being able to have anything done, either by Paypal or EBay.
For those of you considering setting up shop online, DON'T EVEN CONSIDER Paypal. They don't have any security features like the physical 3 digit code on most credit cards nowadays, and their policy of freeze-account-first, ask questions later is a joke
Re:Paypal and EBAY combined = scamalicious! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Paypal and EBAY combined = scamalicious! (Score:5, Informative)
Guess what? The minimum purchase for filing a fraud complaint is $25! So they didn't do anything at all! It shows that if you want to scam on EBay, just do it in chunks less than $25.
EBay is a dishonest, crooked business
Customer support (Score:3, Insightful)
PayPal Problems (Score:5, Informative)
Re:PayPal Problems (Score:2)
Use paypal at your own risk (Score:2, Informative)
Paypal "limited" my account without warning because I was using too many credit card numbers. They never told me why, I had to call the Bozos twice to get the reason why. They would not
My Paypal Experience (Score:5, Insightful)
Paypal then showed my account was "negative," which I ignored until they forwarded my account to their nasty collection agency, NCO financial systems.
On the advice of my lawyer, I paid the agency and sued Paypal in Small Claims Court. They claim I can't do that and arbitration is mandatory, but offered to split the difference and call it a day (in other words, it's worth filing a case if you've been screwed, since settling is easier than fighting). I might go that route, but one thing I know is that I'll never use Paypal again and I recommend that my friends also don't.
Yes, I've filed a complaint with my state attorney general and the FTC. I hope if enough people do, Paypal will have to end some of their most egregious, consumer-unfriendly business practices.
Re:My Paypal Experience (Score:2)
IANAL, but personally, my response to "can't do that" would be "I just did"
Re:My Paypal Experience (Score:2)
Re:My Paypal Experience (Score:2)
I might be wrong though, not only does IANAL apply, but I'm not even American.
Re:My Paypal Experience (Score:2)
Re:My Paypal Experience (Score:2)
I think that's a load of crap.
But I'm also not a lawyer, and I'm better off working than fighting a protracted battle with Paypal. Then again, I also think what they're doing is unfair. So I try to balance standing up for principles, the value of my t
Re:My Paypal Experience (Score:2)
How is this Paypal's fault exactly? Your client was dishonest. If you don't want to take the risk of chargebacks, then don't accept credit-card funded payments.. only payments from a paypal balance or a bank account which cannot be reversed.
Re:My Paypal Experience (Score:2)
In the future, obviously, I won't use Paypal, and my original post is a warning to others.
Small Claims Court? (Score:3, Informative)
Could someone explain to me why these people are whining online rather that suing?
A Software Developer's Perspective (Score:4, Informative)
Next, I have a PayPal Visa card that I can use to directly access the money in my PayPal account immediately after a sale, without any additional fees (even if the account is overdrawn). I find that incredibly useful. It also tends to keep my PayPal balance low (most I've ever had in there at a time was still sub-$200). That is good, in that if PayPal freezes my account I have little to lose, but bad because it is too easy to access the funds.
After thousands of sales I have only had one charge-back because the CC was reported stolen after the sale. My account was never closed or frozen. The money was just debited out of my account.
I'm sure others have horror stories, however as a software developer I really have nothing to lose. After all, the software licenses I sell are virtual, and are of small dollar amounts. Heck, if someone really wanted to get a license illegally they could just hunt down the cracked version of my program and save themselves the larger repercussions of credit card fraud.
So I guess what I'm trying to get at is PayPal may have its problems, specifically when dealing with actual merchandise of high dollar amounts, but for ISVs it is a very good method of processing payments. After reading this story I will just make sure I never keep large sums of money in my account (which, unfortunately, has never been a problem in the past). It would also be wise to set up a checking account specifically for use just with the PayPal account, to eliminate the risk of tying up any external funds because of PayPal issues.
Dan East
Re:A Software Developer's Perspective (Score:3, Informative)
I'd be suspicious... (Score:3, Informative)
I've seen several "horror stories" with Paypal first hand. EVERY single time, every one, the person screaming was partly (if not nearly fully) at fault. They sent stuff to people who had shady looking order details, etc, or they ordered things "too cheap to be true".
And before you mark me off as someone who doesn't know let me fill in a few blanks.
I have used Paypal since hell I can't even remember, 1998? 99? 00 at the latest. My paypal rating is over 1100 and I recieve "in the neighborhood" of a dozen payments via paypal per day (yes day). I use my Paypal debit card constantly, for nearly everything "day to day" related, buying dinner, groceries, gas, movie tickets, you name it, anything that's not a business expense (use my business credit card for that so I have an unquestionable paper trail for my accountant).
And let me tell you a story about Friday, I went out to eat, got done and went to pay, "do not honor" card denied (paypal debit card), called card services "oh we tried to call you today and verify some purchases but we got no answer" (well suspending my card is one way to get an answer). I verified some personal information, verfied a few purchases, and then handed the waiter my card back, and all was well. I wasn't mad, or pissed, I was damn glad that Paypal saw a big old $430 charge for something "kinda odd" for me to buy and took action to make sure I wasn't getting drained by some carder.
I've had a couple chargebacks, they debited the amount from my balance, life went on, I've had a couple disputed charges, paypal asked me for info, I gave it, they asked the buyer for info, I assume they gave it, and in the end paypal either refunded them their money, or told them "tough noogies" and left the transaction as it was.
I don't doubt Paypal has fucked up royally on a few occasions, but EVERY time I've seen a problem, either my own or someone I knew, Paypal handled it and typically quickly and without too much aggravation.
You don't process BILLIONS a year and have millions of customers without pissing a few of them off.
It's the net standard (Score:3, Informative)
PayPal also has the sense to offer Instant Payment Notifications and prewritten scripts all ready to go for site owners to plug in to recieve them in a variety of languages. I use PHP. Previously I j
EUROPE = REGULATED, different ToS for EU members. (Score:5, Interesting)
There is a specific heap of EU legislation relating to Electronic Cash Issuers (not banks, just e-money services such as PayPal) - PayPal have now created this EU company and obtained the relevant license in order to do what they do in compliance with the European rules.
The revised ToS for affected users include:
*) that PayPal can only lock the funds related to a specific disputed transaction - not your entire account balance
*) a clear explanation of your financial position in relation to them (that your account balance represents an unsecured debt from them to you - if they tank, you might potentially be stuffed)
*) Jurisdictional stuff setting the venue for any suing of them by "us" to be England, and pointing out our right to go to the UK's Financial Ombudsman Service or the Courts for relief in the event of a dispute with them - no attempts at all at a "you cannot sue us" clause.
As a UK-based occasional PayPal user, I'm pretty pleased with this new arrangement. This move into the UK also means I could invoke the Data Protection Act to obtain any "hidden" information on my account in the event of a dispute.
These changes haven't been hidden - all EU-based members have been emailed about this and the information is on the "updates" column on the left on your main account overview page.
PayPal is indeed frustrating to deal with (Score:3, Interesting)
They won't tell me who it was, who charged back or any other information about the person other then it was a unautharized transaction.
60 days later my account is unfrozen and I'm billed or the transaction fee, a chargeback fee and I'm out $90.
My biggest gripe is, all that stuff they require you to send when under investigation, like utility bill, bank statement (I refused) etc ... they should require up front to open the account.
Problem I had (Score:2)
Never have had an issue since. Now if I buy anything from Ebay, w
Be careful what Paypalsucks motives are (Score:2)
It truly does suck when something goes bad on Paypal, I've been the victim of 3 or 4 scams in my 7 years on eBay and Yahoo auctions. That said, Paypal is a MECHANISM that is exploited, NOT the scammers themselves.
This isn't a shameless promotion - it truly is an informative read that I did on my website:
http://adzoox.com/paypalsucks.html
I was commended for my reasearch by the very people that have praised payp
Re:Be careful what Paypalsucks motives are (Score:3, Interesting)
Because a vocal group of people hate Paypal and because the competition despise it and it's parent company's success - they are common targets for criticism. When companies like Yahoo and with services like Yahoo PayDirect are NO BETTER and in fact offer le
Re:Fuck Paypal (Score:2)
TOS on a whim
Let me guess, you opted out of the ToS changes option, so you didn't know in advance that this policy change was going to take effect, right?
Re:Fuck Paypal (Score:5, Interesting)
Be thankful you can still even access your account. A similar thing happened to me -- and I was a long-time Paypal user (since their X.com days) with hundereds of successful transactions.
After waiting eight months they finally released the frozen funds, told me that my account was no longer "limited", and that I was once again free to use the system. Unfortunately, despite telling me otherwise, they forgot to actually take the limit off.
At that point, I was so disgusted with their mistakes and the countless hoops they had made me needlessly jump through, I decided I just wanted to get rid of my personal information from their system. I just wanted to close my account, and move on.
However, because they had forgotten to take the limit off, I couldn't even close my account.
So I emailed their customer support. I forwarded them my previous correspondence, and their resposne stating that I was in the clear. I asked them to either take the limit off as they had originally stated (so I could close my account myself), or just close the account for me and remove my personal information from their system.
PayPal's response?
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
We have terminated your further use of PayPal. This termination is per PayPal's User Agreement, Acceptable Use Policy.
PayPal, in its sole discretion, reserves the right to terminate this Agreement, access to its website, or access to Service without notice for any reason and at any time."
Your account will remain locked indefinitely, and we ask that you not attempt to open a duplicate account, as any additional accounts will be locked from use as well.
We thank you for your business with PayPal.
Sincerely,
Josh
PayPal Account Review Department
PayPal, an eBay Company
Gee, thanks PayPal! And sadly I'm by no means alone [aboutpaypal.org] in this. So keep in mind, your personal information is by no means safe in the hands of PayPal.
Re:Assbites (Score:2)
I much prefer to send a check for that reason.
PayPal/Ebay & Security - long term/squaretrade (Score:2)
That said