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Privacy Businesses Software Your Rights Online

Background-Check Software Goes Retail 228

Posted by timothy from the stalking-plus dept.
Makarand writes "According to this article in the Mercury News, ChoicePoint Inc., one of the nation's largest vendors of personal, financial and legal data is attempting to mass market a background-check software tool-kit which can be used to tap into ChoicePoint's online databases. Choicepoint requires that you have a business license to run a small business to use this software. However, as users of these services are rarely audited or asked to produce their business license, the purchaser can potentially conduct criminal background checks, Social Security number identification and other checks on anyone for a small fee. Privacy advocates are cautioning that making background-check software a consumer product could easily put personal information into the wrong hands."
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Background-Check Software Goes Retail More

Background-Check Software Goes Retail

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  • The govt needs to do a better job of regulating personal data. I guess passing tax cuts for the wealthy is more important than protecting the privacy of individuals. Businesses get what they pay for, a system of government for the Business by the Business.

    I wonder if this will ever change.

    • Re:This will make stalking all the easier. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by gcaseye6677 ( 694805 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:18PM (#8492058)
      You never miss the chance for a good class warfare argument, do you? If anything, this type of software will bring a little more power to the people, considering the type of information you can find with it is already available to anyone who can pay lots of money for database access. As far as someone using it improperly, the risk is already there. Its not that difficult to run a credit report on someone illegally and not get caught.
    • Who do you think benefits when businesses benefit? No one? The big giant millionaire man hell-bent on creating conspiracies to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. The people who work for that business benefit. The investors in that business benefit. As has been mentioned previously here on /., most stock of large corporations is held in pension funds, IRAs, 401(K) Plans, and from shares in mutual hunds held by individual investors. The owner/CEO of a business/corporation isn't the only one who b

      • Re:Obligatory mildly off-topic rant (Score:4, Insightful)

        by KarmaMB84 ( 743001 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @03:00PM (#8492201)
        Most stock is held by those that fall in the category of wealthy. While the Bush administration is busy helping out corporations, those corporations are busy moving operations overseas into underdeveloped countries that don't have laws that keep them from maiming their workers and replacing them like livestock as American corporations did during the American Industrial Revolution.

      • Re:Obligatory mildly off-topic rant (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I get very angry at all the hatred I see on /. for anyone who makes a lot of money.

        You know what, so did I once upon a time. And back then I even supported tax cuts for the rich because I bought the argument that the money would be invested to create American jobs.

        Imagine my surprise when it became clear that the rich don't give a flying fuck about their fellow citizens. After hundreds of billions of dollars in tax cuts for the rich WHERE ARE THE JOBS??? Hint: not on this continent!

        The "genius" o

    • If this isn't flamebait, I don't know what is.

      Mods, whatever your personal political views are, the parent is simply making an anti-bush statement. The article is about personal information being available to the public and has nothing to do with republicans or George Bush - yet there is a need by the parent to bring up his disagreement with upper class tax cuts?

      I'm sick of seeing these OT politcal rants. In some /. articles pro/anti-bush ramblings are relevant (example: Bush allowing feds to monito
    • It will also make it easier for people feeling uneasy to check up on their potential dates. Like the lady who not so long ago found the FBI top ten guy in Europe because she did a little investigating before going on the date.
    • Good point....we need to make sure we protect the privacy of the rich individuals after we give them tax cuts :)

  • Already in the wrong hands (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 07, 2004 @01:57PM (#8491886)
    Privacy advocates are cautioning that making background-check software a consumer product could easily put personal information into the wrong hands.

    I would argue this info IS ALREADY in the wrong hands and the commoditization of such info merely creates a balance by giving that same access to the little guy (or reasonably little guy).

    • Re:Already in the wrong hands (Score:5, Insightful)

      by NoData ( 9132 ) <`moc.oohay' `ta' `_ataDoN_'> on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:52PM (#8492160)
      I would argue this info IS ALREADY in the wrong hands and the commoditization of such info merely creates a balance by giving that same access to the little guy (or reasonably little guy).

      I disagree. Most of your run of the mill identity thieves are little guys. While I am suspicious of governments and businesses misusing this type of information in misguided attempts to protect "security," there is at least some modicum of accountability and just sheer inertia against a massive organization mobilizing overtly criminal use of private information. Too many people involved to keep it quiet. However, it's going to be a lot more difficult to check the intentions of a "little" guy getting access to this sort of goldmine, and if it goes through, I'm sure many small "businesses" will be set up for the sole purpose of stealing identities for fun and profit. This kind of consolidated information is dangerous in anyone's hands.

      • Re:Already in the wrong hands (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I would disagree with your disagreement. Any little guy identity thief that knows how to use a message board already knows how to obtain all of this info, and often times at cheaper prices than this company is offering. Now the playing field is just being opened wider, so instead of big business and criminals having exclusive access to your data, /everyone/ has access to your data.

        By the way, what information here is private? Any company can do a credit check on you, and with a little legwork any criminal
      • Too many people involved to keep it quiet.

        It's not the size of the organization that matters, it's whether the organization has external and internal checks and balances. It took just man to stir all of Germany up and get the assistance of millions of people to help him exterminate Jews.
    • While I agree with you that the info is already in the wrong hands I don't thjink that widenting the spread is going to help any. In the end I think that the more that this information spreads the worse off we are. Yes If I biy this I can look up data on my neighbor and perhaps on John Ascroft (or his family) but that won't make things any better. My Neighbor won't be able to do anything about it and John Ascroft will come down on me like a ton of bricks (and, on top of that probably get his data removed

  • Personal information... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Mori Chu ( 737710 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @01:57PM (#8491887)
    I shudder to think that my personal information might be getting into the wrong hands without proper permission.

    Now, if you'll excuse me, I was just interacting with my pal, Bonzi Buddy...

  • WTF (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 07, 2004 @01:58PM (#8491895)
    I can understand that there are legitimate uses for this; I can see why a parent would like background checks on babysitters for my kids and such.

    But the larger question is, what is this society coming to? Why are we becoming so paranoid about everything? Everyone wants their own privacy, but then they're willing to go and spy on other people to find out more about them...

    I don't know. It's early on a Sunday... just throwing some thoughts out.
    • A lot of businesses already require your tax history before they will consider hiring you...

      Some even do ongoing investigations, and know who your friends are...

      ( speaking form experience here.. it shocked me when I discovered they were doing it.. )

    • Re:WTF (Score:3, Insightful)

      by C10H14N2 ( 640033 )
      The difference is, they're not asking for releases from the parties being investigated, nor are they securing any proof of the relationship or reason for the investigations. Some of this information (e.g. credit reports) by law requires all of this. You can't just run your neighbor's credit because you spent $15 on a business license--and this company isn't even verifying that much.

      To give direct access to anyone with only statistical accountability is just negligence in the name of expedience.

      These guys

  • So now... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheKidWho ( 705796 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @01:58PM (#8491896)
    So now people who happen to find SS cards can actually find out whose SS it is. Here comes better identity theft!

    • Re:So now... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by pvt_medic ( 715692 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:11PM (#8492005)
      Well lets see take a college database of student IDs, run it through this and you have probably 8,000 viable people to rip off. And for all of you who think that the university closely protects our data, i cant tell you how many times a teacher will post grades by SSN or even seen name and SSN. I try to explain to them that its illegal, and against university policies but i gave up when the university posted a list of kids by social security numbers. Dont need to slip for someone to get my data, idiots like that give it out for free.
      • There is/was a computer science professor at UIUC who decided to figure out how they encoded the student's SSN into their College ID. Then he open sourced the tool ;).

      • Re:So now... (Score:3, Informative)

        by ameoba ( 173803 )
        All you need to do is mention the word "FERPA [ed.gov]" (if you live in USia) in cases like this to get administrators shitting themselves and working with you.
    • Yeah, because I know my social security card doesn't have my name on it already.

      Oh wait, it does.

  • Oh no... (Score:2, Funny)

    by holizz ( 737615 )
    I hope no-one realises this is a comb-over!

  • Oh no! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by MC_Cancer_Pants ( 728724 )
    I'm as good as fired when my boss sees my childpr0n conviction!

    Honestly, how many people lie to their employers? Kinda bugs me.
    • You'd be surprised! People lie about where they've worked and for how long, all the time. It's pretty funny when they get caught, too.

      "So, it says you worked at X... we called them, they say you didn't work there. You lied, didn't you. What else did you lie about on the application?"

      • Re:Oh no! (Score:5, Interesting)

        by sTalking_Goat ( 670565 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:17PM (#8492052) Homepage
        half my resume used to be made up jobs. I used to use the names of defunct Start-ups during the dot-com bomb. Of course they couldn't be verified since they no longer existed. Luckily in the past few years I've gotten some actualy experience and wiened the lies off of my resume.

        perople lie on their resume all the time

        • The way I see it, many people feel justified about lying on a resume if companies have lied to them in the past about job duties, salaries, etc. Not saying that makes it OK, but that is how some peoples' minds work. The internet is putting more power in the hands of people on both sides of the issue to find out more about each other.

  • So it's OK for Macy's to use it?!? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by drdanny_orig ( 585847 ) * on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:00PM (#8491917)
    How does a business license make someone any more reputable? If the guy at the corner Likker-n-Lotto can buy this software, we may as well give it out for free on street corners. "Wrong hands" indeed.

  • What are the wrong hands? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MythoBeast ( 54294 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:00PM (#8491919) Homepage Journal
    One of the scariest parts about this article is that it assumes that this kind of software usually puts private information into "right" hands. In a world where your personal socializing habits are grounds for failing a background check, it really blurs the concept of "the wrong hands."

  • This is a Good Thing (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:02PM (#8491933)
    Knowledge of each of us is only valuable if distribution is limited. If everybody knows everything about everybody, lots of problems simply go away: people are suddenly no longer able to use irrelevant superficial criteria to make decisions if the expect to succeed. (Those naive zealots who continue to do so will fail when all the dirty, scummy, real people out there with actual skills get hired up by their competators.)
    Everybody has to grow up in a world where this data is free.

    Key point in the ideal being that the data has to be free. Cheap and ubiquitous is a good first step toward free.

    Everybody always focusses on "no data collected" as the right answer for building a good world. "All data public," I think, makes an equally good, perhaps more mature, world.

    • Re:This is a Good Thing (Score:4, Interesting)

      by YrWrstNtmr ( 564987 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:11PM (#8492002)
      Everybody always focusses on "no data collected" as the right answer for building a good world. "All data public," I think, makes an equally good, perhaps more mature, world.

      ...as said by the AC.

      Ok Sparky, fess up. Make public all *your* data. Let's see your name, bank acct nums, credit cards. SSAN, birthdate, address, salary.

      After all...it's the mature thing to do, right?
      • i think the parent post by AC was suggesting (between the lines) that this would work only if all data on everyone was released or easily available. obviously an idealistic but unrealistic view but were it otherwise, it would indeed be a good thing... in a communist sort of way :)
      • I'm not the AC above, but the man has a point. You americans are traditionally known here in Europe as an immature people, always seeking someone to sue instead of acknowledging that you should be held accountable for your actions.
        If you want my data, by all means, take it.
        Name: Jorge Lima
        Bank account number: I have no idea, and no significant amount of money in it either :P
        SSAN: I dont know what this thing is, I probably dont have one.
        Birthdate: Jan 4 1980
        Address: Rua Arco do Carvalhao, 21, 3E
        Salary: None
        • If you give your credit card numbers to 100 random people, at least one of them will use it.

          You have given nothing that is not in the phone book, except your birthdate.

          The OP AC seemed to be talking about *all* your (and my) data. Bank account mnumbers, credit card numbers, SSAN (National ID Num?), credit information, tax records, etc, etc.

          With just a couple of those pieces of info, I can be you. Apply for (and get) credit, get a new drivers license, apply for a job (as you).

          No, they're not going to

        • You miss the point (Score:3, Informative)

          by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 )
          Now I'm guessing from the no saliry and bank account that you are a minor, and don't have any assets. That's great. However for those of us that DO it can be a major problem. If you got my bank account number, SSN, address, vital stastics and such, you could rip me off for quite a bit of money. You could actually do this with much less, just my check card number and experation date would do it.

          This is the real concern. Sorry to shatter any illusions you may have had but the finincal world, at least for nor

    • Re:This is a Good Thing (Score:5, Interesting)

      by tabdelgawad ( 590061 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:43PM (#8492134)
      I think you're right, but for the wrong reasons. "All data public" is not a world I want to live in. But I do want to live in a world where I *know* what part of my data is public, what part is semi-public, and what part is private. I also want to know under what conditions the data moves from one category to another.

      For example, I know my name, phone number, and address are public (in the phone book). I know that my web surfing habits are private. I also know that I lose the privacy of web-surfing in case of a subpoena (Patriot Act not withstanding) or if I'm silly enough to allow spyware on my PC. I know that snapshots of my financial info are available to many businesses if I authorize them (credit checks if I apply for a loan/credit card, sometimes even for jobs/housing).

      What I *don't* know is what a person who knows my public info can (legally) dig up about me without my consent. I'll bet I'd be surprised at how much they can find out. If background check software/services go retail, everyone will become aware of the limits of their privacy, and that's why this is a "Good Thing".

      • For example, I know my name, phone number, and address are public (in the phone book). I know that my web surfing habits are private.

        Do you really know your web surfing habits are private? Can you point to any particular law that ensures this? Remember this is a private organization doing this, not the government, so any "right to privacy" in the Constitution doesn't apply.

        I really wouldn't be surprised to find out major ISPs were quietly conglomorating this information and passing it along to those

    • "All data public," I think, makes an equally good, perhaps more mature, world.

      I think it would make more spam in all of its many forms. You know what happens when you post your email adres on a site. It gets put in a database and flagged with "this person is intrested in lots of penis enlargment pills and cheap drugs".

      Now if everybody would have access to all the email adresses. We would receive spam from every spam creature on the planet. Now we wouldn't like that, would we?

      I think your free data uto

      • Assuming you can trivially find out anything about anybody, just add a filter to your inbox that rejects mail from anyone who is known for spamming. And thus, spam would not exist in the "free data utopia".
  • There have for some time been a plethora of web-based services allowing you do exactly the same kind of background checking, with the same level of business license verification. (Or non-verification, depending on your point of view...)

    This is really more of a packaging / marketing / merchandising issue, than a technical or even a legal issue.

    In fact, since surfing the web is much easier than installing software, I wonder if this product will cause any increase in the occasions of misuse of background checking. Anyone who wants to do it but shouldn't be able to, already can take a crack at it via the web.
    • This is really more of a packaging / marketing /merchandising issue, than a technical or even a legal issue.

      This could very well become a legal nightmare for this company.

      I remember a case about a year or so ago where a family of a girl that was stalked and eventually murdered sued an "information broker" for aiding in her wrongful death. Not only was this guy able to get SSN, workplace info, etc, but one of these brokers actually called the victims mother to scam information out of her.

      Now that this c

  • Strong Safeguards (Score:4, Funny)

    by wolfdvh ( 700954 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:06PM (#8491962)
    ChoicePoint, though, says it has built strong safeguards into its system to avoid privacy breaches. But they are not absolute.

    For starters, there's the sticker that seals the top of the box. `Business License Required,' it reads.

    Whew, I feel sooo much better, I was thinking just anybody could get their package....sigh!

  • in the same vein (sic) (Score:5, Informative)

    by jefu ( 53450 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:07PM (#8491971) Homepage Journal
    Check out the doctors national plantiff database [doctorsknow.us] where doctors can check to see if you're likely to cause them trouble if they treat you. They say "Tell your colleagues the playing field has been leveled."

    Or Does a sexual predator live in your neighborhood? [nationalal...gistry.com]

    These databases are inevitable and likely to proliferate.

    • From http://nationalalertregistry.com/

      A neighbor could be one of the 9 registered sex offenders located in your immediate area. Find out who they are, where they live and see their photo.

      We used a 3 mile radius from the center of your zip, your Member Map will pinpoint them exactly. With full membership you will be able to specify a full address and the radius.

      That's for the zip-code 20500 (1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Washington, DC.. Otherwise known as the White House).

      Just so you know.

    • Re:in the same vein (sic) (Score:4, Interesting)

      by base3 ( 539820 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @03:16PM (#8492300)
      Love the quote from doctorsknow.us:
      NATIONAL PLAINTIFF DATABASE. THIS IS NOT A BLACKLIST. MANY PATIENTS HAVE MERITORIOUS CASES.

      Yeah, Spamhaus isn't a blacklist either. Where's my centralized site to check to see what doctors have been sued or cited by their state board of healing arts for malpractice or misconduct?

  • A very "nice" automated tool for ID theft (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Angelonio ( 744297 ) * on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:08PM (#8491976)
    We all watched how "potential" employers used their access to the social security IDs from job applications submited to various job sites.
    Imagine how much more effective and automated will be to impersonate someone having access to this wealth of information.
    What happened to the Civil Rights?

  • Yeah, this ability hasn't ever existed before this (Score:4, Insightful)

    by analog_line ( 465182 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:08PM (#8491980)
    Privacy advocates are cautioning that making background-check software a consumer product could easily put personal information into the wrong hands.

    OK, what planet have these "privacy advocates" been living on? Could easily put? Hasn't personal information been in the wrong hands already for years now? Hell, forget buying software, all you've needed for YEARS has been $100 or so, and you can get your hands on whatever personal information you want on almost whoever you want, from any number of private investigation companies, online and offline.

    Just a couple examples:

    Background Check International's fee structure [bcint.com]
    Checkmate.com's fee structure [checkmate1.com]
    BackgroundFile background check software [backgroundfile.com]

    Many many more, this was just the first few I found on a google search. Choice Point is just jumping on the gravy train. Whooptie do.

  • This bytes. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Martigan80 ( 305400 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:10PM (#8491993) Journal
    What they are doing is offering a service for a fee, a service they know many people will buy. They are also passing the responsibility onto the user to "be honest that they are using the information for legit cause." Plus they make you fax some form and have a company employee verify the data. I'm sorry but I'm sure they will have a minimum wage or slightly better person to "verify" these requests. It just seems like a company even though is legally correct it putting the burden of proof to the user, are just making a bad decision for all consumers. Like many will say, this will make it allot easier to track people down, get some revenge, and do worse things.
  • It is usually fairly trivial to find out interesting information about someone, especially if you have something like a person's job application in front of them. While all the information there is self voulenteered, it is likely to be at least substantially correct. This contains a plethora of potential leads. It is even easier if you do not contrain yourself to bounds of law and misrepresent yourself on the phone.

    You simply call up their previous/current employers, their surnames if the surname is unusua

  • Wrong hands? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ilsa ( 197564 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:14PM (#8492022) Homepage
    Oh heck, this can be abused in the "right hands" too. So you need a "business license" to get this? Easily obtained.

    And lets say you are a manager someplace that has access to this information, and your college aged daughter has a new boyfriend? Easy enough to check up on him, isn't it. Oh, and it isn't abuse of the system because it's to protect your little girl.

    As long as you are using the company equipment, have a neighbor you don't like? Easy enough to find out more about who he really is, too. And it's just to protect your family.

    The "Two IDs" sketch of "Amazon Women on the Moon" and that brokerage commercial where the guy is freaked out by his blind date knowing everything about him are not far away from reality now.

  • Business License (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:15PM (#8492032)
    Sure, maybe they have good intentions, but really??? I am 21 yrs old and have a Federal Tax ID to run a business (obtained for free through the IRS) and I can obtain a legitamite business license for around $50. So another words, I could use my FREE Tax ID and cheap business license to get this software and run background checks on anybody I want?? All I need is a social?? And a "forged" application of some sort (in case of an audit, I can "prove" they applied). Gee, save me some time researching on the internet. /me doesn't exist. You don't know me.. I'm a ghost... no really, I am. I love my privacy so LEAVE ME ALONE!! Take this software out of production.

    • Re:Business License (Score:3, Informative)

      by bitmason ( 191759 )
      Hate to break it to you, but you don't need to bother with a business license. There are already sites that you can run a check with just a SS# for no reason at all (e.g. www.rapsheets.com). BTW, You don't even need the SS# for a geographically constrained search.

  • How accurate is this? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ThisIsFred ( 705426 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:20PM (#8492068) Journal
    How accurate is this information? This is an important consideration. I could see a use for this in gunshops, for example. It'd probably be a lot faster than making a call to NICS, and cut down on government expenses for staffing NICS. But what if the information is wrong or incomplete? Likewise with employment.

  • Problem is that it's available AT ALL. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ungrounded Lightning ( 62228 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:20PM (#8492069) Journal
    Choicepoint requires that you have a business license to run a small business to use this software. However, as users of these services are rarely audited or asked to produce their business license, the purchaser can potentially conduct criminal background checks, Social Security number identification and other checks on anyone for a small fee.

    What's so magic about a "licensed business", that limiting the data to them would do anything useful?

    Crooks license businesses all the time, as do pathologically-lying psychopathic scumbags that manage to stay barely within the law.

    Look at a used-car lot some time. Or nearly ANY sales organization. Or the executive suite of any corporation. Or middle-management at a job near you.

    And tightening up the requirements for business licenses, or enforcing business-license requirements for disclosure of the data, will do no good and much harm. The crooks, who do their crookery for a living, will still have the time and incentive to hop through any hoops set up, or to skate around them. (As by setting up a business to sell the info under-the-table to their hands-on bretheren.)

    Increasing the threshold for access, while still leaving it available to "licensed businesses", just further increases the subjugation of the general population. Why should any seller on E-Bay have less access to credit information on his potential customers (whom he has NEVER seen) than your local five-and-dime? Why should you be unable to check what the company is saying about YOU when asked by a "licensed business", and have to TRUST them to keep your data correct, and to give you the same info they give paying customers if you ask for a check?

    The problem is not that it's "too easy" to "fake" being a "licensed business".

    The problem is that the information is available to businesses AT ALL.

    Privacy advocates are cautioning that making background-check software a consumer product could easily put personal information into the wrong hands.

    That's just another aspect of the general empowerment of both the little guy and the big guy by the technological revolution.

    Invasion of privacy has had limited impact before automation because it was so costly that it could only be applied rarely and selectively - typically only by government. Now it's cheap. So perhaps we need to protect it explicitly when we could mostly let it slide before, largely protected, like sheep, by fading into a large visually-identical crowd.

    But if it needs protecting it needs EQUAL protection from ALL players (including government). Making it available only to "licensed businesses", thus giving it to the crooks while keeping it from the honest individuals and raising the cost-of-entry and/or risk-of-entry for small businesses, just won't cut it.

    If it's public record, anybody should be able to see it. If it's not, nobody should. Then focus on defining and enforcing THAT.
    • And as you hint at, there's no global definition of a "licensed business" anyway.

      Where I live, you don't need a license of any sort to run a home business, you are supposed to file this paper that asks how many cars you expect to attract (for parking purposes), and if you'll put up a sign (to protect against obnoxious signage). You have to get it stamped by the building inspector. That's it.

      I file schedule C for my contract work federally, but I don't have an EIN because I don't have employees and opera

  • This just proves their software sucks (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Weaselmancer ( 533834 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:22PM (#8492078)

    Choicepoint requires that you have a business license to run a small business to use this software. However, as users of these services are rarely audited or asked to produce their business license, the purchaser can potentially conduct criminal background checks, Social Security number identification and other checks on anyone for a small fee.

    So, why can't they use their uber-database to see if a potential customer has a business license???

    If their software is so dense as to miss obvious publicly available information like that, then I wouldn't worry.

    Weaselmancer

  • Mmm, background checks! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Dark Lord Seth ( 584963 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:23PM (#8492087) Journal

    Mmm, makes me wish I was the coder...

    Connecting to checkpoint database server nr 6...
    Connection established, authenticating...
    Authenticated as business645, system up and running.
    *** Idle.
    > Received request for background check for business645
    > Target: dls2978-AF643-6177-NL
    *** Looking up target information
    *** Credit card information: ... N/A
    *** Financial information: ....... Within parameters.
    *** Previous conduct information: ............ Within parameters.
    *** Personal information: ........ FAIL
    *** SYSTEM FAILURE, error code -1
    *** ILLEGAL INSTRUCTION at "ALL_YOUR_BASE_ARE_BELONG_TO_SETH.cpp"
    *** Attempting to recover: ... FAIL
    *** Personal information: ......... Received.
    *** Return data, omit from log.
    < Target: dls2978-AF643-6177-NL
    < Financial information: Makes Scrooge McDuck cry.
    < Previous conduct information: Known to incite communist revolts in retail stores.
    < Personal information:
    < Name: ... FAIL
    < RECOMMENDATION: Charge $name nothing for any purchases, allow $name to have sex with any female employee at will, worship $name like the one true god.
    < UNKNOWN FIELD: How's my coding? Call 0-800-GETLOST! Love from Seth.
    *** Connection reset by peer.

  • It's already public info... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:24PM (#8492092)
    Court records are public info, marriage certificates are public info, and many business transactions result in a public record. Really, your enitre life is published, it's just in so many disorganized places that it's hard for anybody to put it all together.

    However, that's where technology comes in. Once all of those databases are converted from paper to bits, and then the tables are brought together and cross-linked, you can get a very scary pile of information just by having a name and address, or a social security number alone.

    And really, the laws to regulate the use of such a database don't exist because, well, it hasn't really been fully done yet. But it seems like we keep getting closer and closer to the day where such a system will fully have the kinks knocked out and be availalbe to anybody who can pay for it...
    • Thats it. This company data-mines public records, including credit history and sells the results in a convienient form. Saves time for those wanting it.

      I guess what they are really selling is access to their search engine.

  • Business makes it ok why? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:29PM (#8492120)
    Why is being a business a more valid reason to have access to this data than being an individual? Oh I forgot, business is the new "law" in the USA...

    • New? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by DrMorpheus ( 642706 )
      As Calvin Coolidge stated, "The business of America is business." The American government and the press have ALWAYS catered to the business class.

  • Just a reminder ... (Score:5, Informative)

    by pherris ( 314792 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @02:45PM (#8492138) Homepage Journal
    In the 2000 Presidential election ChoicePoint was the company that was the cause of the incorrect removal of thousands of voters from the State of Florida's voter rolls because were labelled as convicted felons. These voters were mostly black.

    From Inside Republican America: A blacklist burning for Bush [guardian.co.uk]:

    "The Observer discovered that Harris's office had ordered the elimination of 8,000 Florida voters on the grounds that they had committed felonies in other states. None had. Harris bought the bum list from a company called ChoicePoint, a firm whose Atlanta executive suite and boardroom are filled with Republican funders. ChoicePoint, we have learned, picked up the list of faux felons from state officials in - ahem - Texas. In fact, it was a roster of people who, like their Governor, George W, had committed nothing more than misdemeanours."
    From Firm in Florida election fiasco earns millions from files on foreigners [guardian.co.uk]:
    "The controversy is not the first to engulf ChoicePoint. The company's subsidiary, Database Technologies, was responsible for bungling an overhaul of Florida's voter registration records, with the result that thousands of people, disproportionately black, were disenfranchised in the 2000 election. Had they been able to vote, they might have swung the state, and thus the presidency, for Al Gore, who lost in Florida by a few hundred votes."
    Simply put: ChoicePoint is evil. Welcome to Bush & Ashcroft's Amerika.
    • Your post brings up a very important issue in the 2000 election. Another good article from Harper's is posted here.

      Essentially, Florida took away the right to vote from thousands of people. Regardless of who won or lost that election this issue needs to be made more public. Nobody has been reprimanded for this action. From the Secretary of State to the companies that received millions in contracts to implement this disenfranchisement of voters.

  • Background checks for users of this software (Score:4, Funny)

    by UpLateDrinkingCoffee ( 605179 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @03:02PM (#8492216)
    Users of this software should have to pass a background check before they can use it. See how they like it. Having a business license doesn't prove anything as in most areas anyone that pays the fee can get one.

  • It's Already in the Wrong Hands (Score:5, Interesting)

    by edward.virtually@pob ( 6854 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @03:20PM (#8492318)
    Given that ChoicePoint is the same sleazy outfit that conspired with the Bush family and the GOP to corrupt Florida's election results in 2000 (see this article [wikipedia.org] and others), it's too late to keep it out of the wrong hands, and also explains why they have no qualms about irresponsibly allowing any (other) crook to get their hands on it. Pathetic.

  • It's allready reality...in Germany (Score:4, Informative)

    by althalus1969 ( 680826 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @03:33PM (#8492383)
    We have a system called "SCHUFA" and they collect everything financial about you.

    Every Credit Card, every Bank Account, just about everything that has to do with your finances.
    "How could that be bad?" you ask?. Easy.
    Get into trouble (Credit rates delayed, Credit Card cancelled, Wrong Information entered into their system [it happened]) and BINGO, now more money from the bank.
    In fact, no more Bankaccount. Yes, they can deny you the right to have a Bankaccount based upon a statement from the people at the "SCHUFA".
    And it just takes 3 years to get records cleared from the statements.
    Still not bad enough? You have to sign a statement for having you information and personal data transmitted to SCHUFA everytime you want something like...a telephone or change your ISP. Guess what happens if you get a negative report? Right.
    And last, they invented a scoring system...based upon statistical data.
    Living in a bad neighburhood? Negative Points in the soring system.
    Had an accident some time ago, maybe even your fault? More negative points.
    So the they assess you, and can deny a credit for example, just because you live in the wrong area.

    You see, this is happening all over the world, and I don't think anyone can or will stop it. It'll get much worse before it might get better.

    Cheers Jens

  • So what's the solution? Even more regulation? I think not. What this country needs is less government and more oligarchy.

  • Notify the person being researched (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Mr. Darl McBride ( 704524 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @04:05PM (#8492535)
    One simple solution to all of this: Whenever someone is researched by a third party like this, why can't it be mandatory that the researcher be positively identified, and the target of research must be notified of the research within 1-2 months unless a court decides that there's criminal activity worthy of suppressing these details?

  • What a charade! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Brett Glass ( 98525 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @04:10PM (#8492573) Homepage
    Many municipalities, including mine, don't require businesses to be licensed. What's to keep any customer who buys the package from saying he's from such a place?
  • Privacy advocates are cautioning that making background-check software a consumer product could easily put personal information into the wrong hands."

    My opinion is that personal information long been already in the wrong hands...now there will just be more of them. It's not just a matter of privacy - it's just as much a matter of accuracy. Not only can these companies harvest, store, and sell information about you, it's your job to ensure that it's accurate. Anyone who has tried to deal with the likes of

  • IP database (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mabu ( 178417 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @04:28PM (#8492711)
    IMO, one of the most valuable pieces of information available in the future will be personal information associated with static IP addresses. I suspect many entities are busy compiling "IP databases" and this would be a product that could be of great use to both businesses and individuals who might want to identify users on their web sites, people on IM/IRC systems, or the senders of pseudo-anonymous e-mail.

    Even a single company like Amazon.com likely has a huge database of IP addresses associated with detailed customer information (imagine if an information broker started consolidating this information across many sites). Due to the almost non-existant privacy laws in this respect, Amazon, or anyone could sell this information. You get an e-mail from someone you don't like? With their IP address you can get their name, address, phone number, etc. Anyone who wants to gather a mailing list of people who have visited their web site can run a cross-reference of the web logs against these sorts of databases. As more people move to DSL and cable, with static IPs, a database of this nature becomes the missing link to make most Internet activity un-anonymous.
    • You mean like WHOIS? The database you're talking about has existed since the birth of the internet, and possibly before. Type whois [ip or domain name] and you'll get all kinds of useful little tidbits! Like, street addresses, phone numbers and e-mails, except in my case it's the address of my sysadmin (didn't think I REALLY lived at DCL ;)

      From what I hear the WHOIS database is the first stop for spammers, though it's not quite so useful because it normally returns info on your ISP, the last place spammer

  • in election 2000:

    http://www.whoseflorida.com/electoral_reform.ht m

    THE GREAT FLORIDA EX-CON GAME
    How the "felon" voter-purge was itself felonious
    by Greg Palast

    In November the U.S. media, lost in patriotic reverie, dressed up the Florida recount as a victory for President Bush. But however one reads the ballots, Bush's win would certainly have been jeopardized had not some Floridians been barred from casting ballots at all. Between May 1999 and Election Day 2000, two Florida secretaries of state - Sandra Mo

  • this is good (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Sivaram_Velauthapill ( 693619 ) <sivaram.velautha ... m ['l.c' in gap]> on Sunday March 07, 2004 @05:38PM (#8493135) Homepage Journal
    I would rather have EVERYONE check each other than only large corporations (or wealthy elites) have the capability.

    Right now, large corporations and welathy elites (usually by hiring private "specialists") can check someone's SIN (Social Insurance Number) number and things like that. Basically any corporation can do this. In contrast, the typical citizen cannot do these things. This is very unfair for the average person. If I start a bogus business, I can check someone's SIN number but if I don't have a business I can't. What sort of lunacy is this? Obviously no one has said anything about this issue because the clueless masses have no idea what is going on.

    By lowering the cost for doing these things, the average person can start spying on each other. This sounds bad on the surface but it is good (no, this isn't some Orweillian double-think at work). The best world is when you have absolute privacy or no privacy!!! Anything in between can be manipulated (usually by so-called "authorities" who are just a bunch of elites).

    If someone can spy on me, or access my "personal information*" then I want to spy on them in return. This is only fair!!!!!!!!

    I realize that what I said sounds dumb... but think about it.

    Sivaram Velauthapillai (* Note that so-called personal information is not very personal since anyone (businesses, wealthy people, etc) can access them. Your SIN number, for example, is NOT private. You might think it is safe but it's not. If I was rich, or had contacts, or ran the country ;), I can get this information). NOTE: Everything I say is only about things that can be accessed by any wealthy individual or a corporation. I am TOTALLY AGAINST some entity, say the government, collecting new information. Everything I speak of is with regards to existing "personal information". I am not in favour of letting people spy on each other with totally private information (eg. your medical records).

  • Does anyone here know the reason why potential employers care about credit checks? A credit check is part of the "employee screening" product from these guys, and I know that employers do it, but I can't think of any reason for a prospective employer neededing that info.


    Any reason, that is, other than pure discrimination. No, my credit history isn't the best, but yes, I'm a damn good employee. The two just aren't related in any meaningful way that I can see.

    • Credit history can tell something about the person. People with perfect or normal credit histories are nothing to worry about. The question comes when you deal with a person with a poor credit history. If that person can't manage his/her own money, would you trust him with your company's finances?

  • My idea from the title (Score:3, Funny)

    by ocie ( 6659 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @06:39PM (#8493474) Homepage
    Gamer: One copy of bloodkiller IV
    Clerk: Sorry, we have to run a background check and there is a three day waiting period
    Gamer: Well what can I get now?
    Clerk: Fuzzy Bunnies III The cutening or the gold cart simulator.
    Gamer: Nuts

  • This is already available online (Score:3, Insightful)

    by possible ( 123857 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @09:26PM (#8494441)

    However, as users of these services are rarely audited or asked to produce their business license, the purchaser can potentially conduct criminal background checks, Social Security number identification and other checks on anyone for a small fee.

    This has been available for years. You can already do a combined credit check, criminal history check, and background check (including known aliases, current address, past addresses and cohabitors, marriages, divorces, etc.) for under $100 from sites like USSearch.com [ussearch.com]. All they ask for is your credit card number -- they don't care if you're a business owner, stalker, or what have you.

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