MATRIX - A Dossier for Every Person in Utah 650
jxs2151 writes: "According to the Deseret Morning News former Utah Gov. Mike Leavitt signed Utah's 2.4 million residents up for a pilot program that gathers dossiers on every single man, woman and child and didn't bother to tell anyone. According to the article MATRIX -- Multistate Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange '...cross-references government records from both public and private databases, putting together a dossier on individuals for use by law enforcement.' The state's homeland security specialist dismisses concerns: '...any data gleaned for Utah's participation in MATRIX is information already available to law enforcement.'
The Utah legislature is trying to figure out how to get the state out of the program but the question is how was the Governor able to enroll the -whole state- without anyone knowing?"
Can I read Darl's? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Can I read Darl's? (Score:5, Funny)
Mr. McBride.. welcome back. We've missed you.
more classic quotes (Score:3, Insightful)
Neo: Right now, we're inside a computer program?
Morpheus: Is it really so hard to believe?
What is the matrix? Control. It was built to keep us under control...
The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. When you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, lawyers, carpenters, the very minds of the people...
But of course we must honor the best quotes from each of the three movies:
The Matrix:
Context: Morpheus jumps a
Re:Can I read Darl's? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Can I read Darl's? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Can I read Darl's? (Score:3, Troll)
You don't need to ask. You just need to have twenty five cents [accurint.com]
Thank-you former Governor Mike leavitt for sending us Utahns DOWN THE RIVER!
No wonder that President Bush likes you so much [epa.gov]
P.S. Come near my house and I will "Enlibra" you!!
Lots of cross-referencing to do. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Lots of cross-referencing to do. (Score:2, Funny)
Wife1
Wife2
Wife3
Wife4
etc..
Re:Lots of cross-referencing to do. (Score:3, Informative)
Wife2
Wife3
Wife4
etc..
Well, now, that would not be very relational
The second you allow for twenty-one wives, someone with twentytwo wifes is going to show up.
You need a "People" table, with fields like "name", "is_married" and "age" field, and then a "Marriage" table with "groom_ref" and "wife_ref" field to link these people in marriage..
One to one (one wife) contra One to many (serveral wives)
Re:Lots of cross-referencing to do. (Score:4, Informative)
person_id integer,
name varchar(30)
};
create table relationships {
person1 integer,
person2 integer,
relation_desc varchar(100)
};
There you go.. Many to many join table.. sure I omitted keys, but that's an exercide left to the reader. The relation_desc field is for a drop down list of relationship descriptions (Wife1, Wife2, etc., in your example).
See, not so hard.
Re:Lots of cross-referencing to do. (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, c'mon - it's not _THAT_ hard. Exercide implies that doing so will kill me.
Re:Lots of cross-referencing to do. (Score:4, Flamebait)
In fact, I wonder if Utah uses the Mormon's database to track who lives there.
RE: Moron about Mormons (Score:4, Informative)
Despite what you all think, the mormon religion does not condone plural marriage. If you take part in a plural marriage, you are excommunicated. That comment merely shows your ignorance and is not really funny at all.
Re: Moron about Mormons (Score:3, Informative)
Despite what you all think, the mormon religion does not condone plural marriage any longer.
That is , originally it was encouraged. Don't believe me, checkout The LDS/Mormon webpages on the subject [lds-mormon.com]
Re: Moron about Mormons (Score:3, Funny)
Re: Moron about Mormons (Score:3, Insightful)
Why is it that anytime a posted article that contains the word Utah or SCO or Novell people automatically assume the Mormons are behind it. Sure, some Mormon folk may be working at these places, but I am sick of people bashing the LDS Church anytime the state of Utah is mentioned or implied in an article.
It's all a big waste of time (like this post, too).
The article is about something serious. A supposedly Republican/Conservative governor signed my entire state up for this MATRIX thing... I am non
Re: Moron about Mormons (Score:3, Interesting)
And, as a side note, isn't it most interesting how the Pr
Re: Moroni about Mormons (Score:5, Insightful)
Which part of that is contradictory?
Mormons believe they are saved through works; entire books of the Bible (Galatians, Romans) teach against that principle.
Where does it teach against that principle? If I'm not mistaken, we are saved through Faith AND Works. There's even a scripture in the bible that talks about that.
Mormons believe there are many gods. The Bible is quite clear that is wrong.
We only worship one God. The bible is quite clear that we only worship one God. And please explain in further detail what you mean by "believe there are many gods" so I know you know what you're talking about; because it's quite clear that you do not.
Definition of a Christian - One who believes in Christ
Mormons believe in Christ; therefore they are Christians. They also believe in the Bible, so all your arguments are not only innaccurate in the first place, they don't support your point to any extent.
Re: Moroni about Mormons (Score:5, Funny)
My imaginary sky-ghost can beat your imaginary sky-ghost because you deluded heathen don't know that eating shellfish or not mutilating newborn boys makes the sky-ghost really pissy!
Thats it... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Thats it... (Score:3, Insightful)
And you still can't understand why some of us don't want our names, addresses, habits and proclivities listed in a database?
Because sometimes the guy who hates jokes becomes the DA / police chief / mayor / Sturmbannfuhrer / Attorney General.
when governments remove civil liberties (Score:5, Insightful)
terrorism wins
Re:when governments remove civil liberties (Score:5, Insightful)
So you need to be eternally vigilant against people wanting to taking away your freedom, ie YOUR GOVERNMENT.
Not some dirty old camel fscker hiding in a cave, cause all he wants to do is kill you.
Re:when governments remove civil liberties (Score:5, Interesting)
The real threat to freedom in the USA are the corporations.. big business.
With the exception of the law-enforcement and intelligence communities, the government isn't very interested in our freedoms.
But it's not only by working through congress the businesses get our rights handed over to them, it's through the courts.
With their armies of lawyers, they manipulate the system so that their propaganda is "free speech", whereas if you say something against them it's "slander".
Not to mention abuse of the DMCA, and any other law they can find.
Re:when governments remove civil liberties (Score:5, Funny)
You misspelled "fund."
Re:when governments remove civil liberties (Score:5, Insightful)
If one of our liberties is the freedom to give someone software we have written without charging money, and a corporation insists that doing so "deprives" said corporation their "right" to charge you for similar software, and says about your act of charity that "It undermines our basic system of intellectual property rights, and it destroys the economic reason for innovation" [eweek.com]...well, I'd say that corporation was trying to remove your liberties in order to eliminate competition and declare de facto ownership of a market. Does THAT make sense?
Re:when governments remove civil liberties (Score:5, Insightful)
It makes a whole lot more sense if you understand the unspoken assumption that the corporations are the real power and the government is just doing what the corporations want them to do. Remember how eager Oracle Corporation was to help build a national identification database? [abc.net.au] The point is that corporations just see this as another short term business opportunity, regardless of the civil liberty consequences.
Re:when governments remove civil liberties (Score:3, Informative)
What racist bullcrap? Bin Laden is dirty (living in a cave does that to you); he is old (in his 60's, IIRC); is hiding in a cave (though probably not for much longer); and could very well be a camel fucker (who are you to judge? the love between a man and his camel is special).
Just because FOX news says he did it, doesn't mean he actually did.
Nevermind the fact that bin Laden claimed responsibility hisownself. Guess you didn't catch the al-Jezerra tape where
Re:when governments remove civil liberties (Score:2)
Re:when governments remove civil liberties (Score:5, Insightful)
Meanwhile, all the poeple running for President that are against the Patriot Act and PA II have dropped out of the race, or can't sell their souls to the devil to call themselves Republicans or Democrats, and therefore have zero chance of becoming President.
Yes, being allowed to vote surely gives one more freedom to vote for the government of your choice. As long as they support the NEW WORLD ORDER, you can pick any of them you like.
That is the worst thing I've ever read (Score:5, Informative)
Most of the Democratic candidates have [talkleft.com] spoken [iowastatedaily.com] out [weeklystandard.com] vocally against extending the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. act. To contrast, George W. Bush recently advocated [com.com] not only extending, but expanding the damn thing-- in his State of the Union speech, no less. (The applause you heard when he said "the PATRIOT act is due to expire soon" was not coming from the pro-Bush side of the room.)
If you believe there is no significant difference between the candidates on this issue, you're just plain nuts. I'm sorry your favorite candidate isn't in the race anymore, but if you keep equivocating and misrepresenting the situation, you're only going to be rewarded with PATRIOT Acts II, III, IV and V.
quote from Orwell - 1984 (Score:5, Informative)
orwell in 1984:
http://www.online-literature.com/view.php/1984/1 7? term=war
"In past ages, a war, almost by definition, was something that sooner or later came to an end, usually in unmistakable victory or defeat. In the past, also, war was one of the main instruments by which human societies were kept in touch with physical reality. All rulers in all ages have tried to impose a false view of the world upon their followers, but they could not afford to encourage any illusion that tended to impair military efficiency. So long as defeat meant the loss of independence, or some other result generally held to be undesirable, the precautions against defeat had to be serious. Physical facts could not be ignored. In philosophy, or religion, or ethics, or politics, two and two might make five, but when one was designing a gun or an aeroplane they had to make four. Inefficient nations were always conquered sooner or later, and the struggle for efficiency was inimical to illusions. Moreover, to be efficient it was necessary to be able to learn from the past, which meant having a fairly accurate idea of what had happened in the past. Newspapers and history books were, of course, always coloured and biased, but falsification of the kind that is practised today would have been impossible. War was a sure safeguard of sanity, and so far as the ruling classes were concerned it was probably the most important of all safeguards. While wars could be won or lost, no ruling class could be completely irresponsible.
But when war becomes literally continuous, it also ceases to be dangerous. When war is continuous there is no such thing as military necessity. Technical progress can cease and the most palpable facts can be denied or disregarded. As we have seen, researches that could be called scientific are still carried out for the purposes of war, but they are essentially a kind of daydreaming, and their failure to show results is not important. Efficiency, even military efficiency, is no longer needed. Nothing is efficient in Oceania except the Thought Police. Since each of the three super-states is unconquerable, each is in effect a separate universe within which almost any perversion of thought can be safely practised. Reality only exerts its pressure through the needs of everyday life -- the need to eat and drink, to get shelter and clothing, to avoid swallowing poison or stepping out of top-storey windows, and the like. Between life and death, and between physical pleasure and physical pain, there is still a distinction, but that is all. Cut off from contact with the outer world, and with the past, the citizen of Oceania is like a man in interstellar space, who has no way of knowing which direction is up and which is down. The rulers of such a state are absolute, as the Pharaohs or the Caesars could not be. They are obliged to prevent their followers from starving to death in numbers large enough to be inconvenient, and they are obliged to remain at the same low level of military technique as their rivals; but once that minimum is achieved, they can twist reality into whatever shape they choose.
The war, therefore, if we judge it by the standards of previous wars, is merely an imposture. It is like the battles between certain ruminant animals whose horns are set at such an angle that they are incapable of hurting one another. But though it is unreal it is not meaningless. It eats up the surplus of consumable goods, and it helps to preserve the special mental atmosphere that a hierarchical society needs. War, it will be seen, is now a purely internal affair. In the past, the ruling groups of all countries, although they might recognize their common interest and therefore limit the destructiveness of war, did fight against one another, and the victor always plundered the vanquished. In our own day they are not fighting against one another at all. The war is waged by each ruling group against its own subjects, and the object of t
what the fsck are you smoking???? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:what the fsck are you smoking???? (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't forget Kerry is a skull and bones man just like the traitor Bush. Don't expect anytyhing positive if he wins.
Re:when governments remove civil liberties (Score:3, Informative)
Re:when governments remove civil liberties (Score:5, Insightful)
Realy, getting invlved does help. Vote, Write, Orginize.
The group wit the most motivated supporters wins. I've seen too may politicians vote against large campaign contributors to believe there all bad.
Disagree? fine. All I can say is I get involved in issue that are important to me. I can name my representitives off the top of my head and get personal emails. Along with there regular stadard emails.
So, you can take that NEW WORLD ORDER defeatism and stick it. I'm doing what all true patriots are doing, standing up for what is right and getting involved.
Re:Um.. (Score:5, Insightful)
As I said the last time the PATRIOT act came up I dont think it really has a lot to do with 9/11 or preventing another one. 9/11 was more a convenient excuse for the right wing to reimplement domestic spying. Lets spell it, out the Patriot act is designed to reimplement domestic spying as it was prior to the 1970's.
The right wing has been really ticked since the early '70's when constraints were put on FBI and CIA domestic spying activities. We've pretty much forgotten why those constraints were put in place.
In a nutshell domestic spying seems like a great idea if it stays in the box and just focuses on dangerous foreign elements, terrotists, or maybe even dangerous domestic elements. The problem is once the ball gets rolling it never does stay in the box. Its just a matter of time before the people who control it, the people in power, redirect it from just the truly dangerous elements to spying on everyone they consider dangerous, which quickly becomes all their political opponents including people who aren't dangerous, but who are just exercising first amendment rights to disagree by doing things like opposing misguided wars like Vietnam or Iraq or advocating controversial things like equal rights and and end to segregation as was the case in the 60's.
Two classic examples:
J. Edgar Hoover used the FBI to spy on everybody. He acquired dirt on basicly everyone including all politicians. As a result he became largely untouchable. No one would dare suggest replacing him, lest he pull out the file he had on them. Hoover probably had some serious skeletons in his own closet but no one would dare expose them. Hoover controlled the FBI for 48 years and didn't get ousted until God did it when he died. Its no coincidence major constraints were put on the FBI's abuse of domestic spying about the time Hoover died. It was the first time it was possible. 48 years is an unnaturally long and unhealthy time for one person to have unchallenged control of a nations domestic law enforcement, he had it thanks to domestic spying. Hoover in particular abused domestic spying in the case of Martin Luther King. King was not a violent person, not a terrorist. His main danger was exercising his first amendment right to speak out against segregation and the Vietnam war. Hoover made King's life a living hell by abusing domestic spying, for example by discovering extramarital affairs and using them as blackmail, and I wouldn't be suprised if he helped encourage his assasination because he was percieved as a threat by the established powers.
Richard Nixon became extraordinarily paranoid and was really obsessed with his reelection. As a result he abused both the FBI and the CIA to help insure he retained power. Let's remember that Watergate was Nixon abusing his domestic spying powers to spy on his political opposition in an effort to insure they didn't get elected. When a president uses domestic spying to hold power you are headed towards something that isn't democracy. We could very well be heading down the same road today.
Here is a thought experiment. If Jesus were alive today and he preached basicly the same message he did 2000 years ago, and just updated it for the times how would people like Bush and Ashcroft, supposedly devout Christians, recieve him.
If no one listened to him he would just be branded a left wing nut, pacifist, anti war, soft on terrorism, unpatriotic and probably a Democrat. Its a certainty he would have opposed the war on Iraq and all use of force by the U.S. Bush and Ashcroft would not appreciate that viewpoint. He might well be branded a communist since I doubt Jesus would have had anything good to say about investment bankers, stock brokers and the rampant greed that dominates America.
If a lot of people heard Jesus's message and started to follow him, perhaps by engaging in passive resistance and peaceful protest the full weight of the FBI and the patriot act would be
Re:Um.. (Score:4, Insightful)
In all fairness, it's not all of the right wing who support the fascist ideology of the neo-conservatives.
There are plenty of old-school Republicans out there who really do support things like small government, low taxes, and individual rights.
I just hope they realize that even though Emperor Dubyah calls himself a Republican instead of a Fascist, they don't need to vote for him this year.
Re:Um.. (Score:5, Insightful)
So the biggest spending president in recent history will enjoy the full support of so called conservatives. The president who grew the govt most, intruded on the lives of ordinary citizens the most, the president who gave amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, who erected steel tarrifs etc will enjoy the support of conservatiives fully.
Why? Two reasons.
1) Bush will not let gays get married and will appoint anti abortion judges.
2) People who call themselves conservatives are not really conservative, they are just republicans who vote any repubican who runs.
Re:Um.. (Score:5, Insightful)
My point is that there is no Republican candidate for 2004, just a Fascist candidate (and before anyone mods me a troll, do some research on the historical goals and ideals of Fascism).
Pretending that the Emperor is a Republican is like the Democrats running David Duke and claiming that he will represent the interests they are traditionally associated with, just because he's got their logo attached to his campaign.
It may be wishful thinking on my part, but I'm hoping enough Republicans feel like I did in 2000 - when the Democrats ran the husband of Tipper Gore (a huge opponent of free speech) and Lieberman (essentially a crypto-Fascist) - to make a difference.
Re:when governments remove civil liberties (Score:4, Insightful)
Managed means the corporatists and their lackeys in the House and Senate make sure the laws they pass MANAGE to enrich their friends and punish their enemies, and make damn well sure no one but the two approved political parties ( read MANAGED ) are able to get into office.
Re:when governments remove civil liberties (Score:4, Interesting)
Get to it.
Red pill / Blue pill (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Red pill / Blue pill (Score:4, Funny)
Making a big noise here in Utah.... (Score:5, Interesting)
For instance, from the article: Searchable databases allow law enforcement agents to probe for people using Social Security numbers, dates of birth, addresses, property records, motor vehicle information and credit history. The information is collected by states and forwarded to a database in Florida, where a private company, Seisint Inc., builds and manages the database.
The fact that credit history is included and is documented along with these other aspects of identity and is run and managed by a private company is disturbing leading me to wonder what connections Gov. Leavitt might have with this company.
Finally, as noted in the article our current Gov., Olene Walker (she was Gov. Leavitt's assistant governor before he headed off to become a Bush appointee to head the Environmental Protection Agency), apparently knew absolutely nothing about the project. As governor, Leavitt should have been representing the people of Utah, but what is it that he has done here?
Re:Making a big noise here in Utah.... (Score:2, Interesting)
Let the other mindless Church-drones deal with it ( by carrying on his legacy of course).
Re:Making a big noise here in Utah.... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm willing to bet you all of your tax information is already being merged in to this grand unified domestic spying database. If it isn't already its just a matter of time. If they can look at all your bank records, and the books you read, what exactly is sacred about your tax returns. Maybe the IRS was good at protecting privacy but if the President, with the backing of a Republican congress, tells t
IRS data sharing in Nixon Era (Score:3, Insightful)
Matrix removes that level of human review.
Private company? (Score:5, Insightful)
So what's to prevent this company from selling the information to the highest bidder? Glad I don't live in Utah...
Re:Private company? (Score:5, Insightful)
What makes you so sure that your governor hasn't done exactly the same thing? It sounds as though the people in Utah only found out about their being entered in the program because they got a new governor. It was a big surprise even to other people in the state government. If that can happen in Utah, it can happen in your state or mine. People in other parts of the country may well have had their information in the same program and simply not know about it because their governments haven't let the cat out of the bag yet. That's the truly scary implication of the situation.
Re:Private company? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Private company? (Score:3, Interesting)
Just because you don't live in Utah doesn't mean you don't have something with them. I know my mortgage company holds some database or another with them.
I would th
Re:Private company? (Score:5, Informative)
Acronym (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Acronym (Score:2)
When oh when... (Score:3, Funny)
Just think of all the nuclear power stations that could be decommissioned as a result
Matrix in Georgia (Score:5, Interesting)
Here, it is the reverse situation. The governor (Sonny Perdue) has now ordered the state twice to *stop* participating in the Matrix program. The first order was ignored. I wonder if the second will go un-heeded as well?
Re:Matrix in Georgia (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Matrix in Georgia (Score:4, Informative)
You ever worked in government? You know how freakin' hard it is to fire a government employee? Why do you think government employees act like they can't be fired?
Re:Matrix in Georgia (Score:3, Funny)
Negative option? (Score:2)
Maybe he used to work for a cable company.
Related Links (Score:5, Informative)
Governor Imposes Stay on MATRIX [utah.gov]
Governor ends Utah's roles in database [nwsource.com]
Matrix FOIA Request to Utah State Police [aclu.org]
The MATRIX [acluutah.org]
Privacy Watch: Matrix [cotse.net]
Matrix Updates [ladylibrty.com]
Matrix Raises a Stir [weblogs.com]
how did the Governor do it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Easy, because the data was being collected in the first place. The whole system of legal protection of privacy (i.e. laws that say you're not allowed to use this data for this purpose) breaks down when the trusted custodians of data shits all over the public's trust. The only way to ensure privacy is to not collect the data in the first place. Not that that's ever going to happen.
Re:how did the Governor do it? (Score:4, Interesting)
This is coming. what we need is a method to slap companies who sell or give data to any other company. We also need Law enforcement to need a signed court order, for specific individuals.
Thats where the fight should be, on how this data is handled, and on signifigant retribution to those who sell it.
For example, it it is a corporation, pull there corp. charter.
Private company, dved 75% of there assets equally among all the people on the lise.
Politician? removal from office. 3 years prison
one of the worst states (Score:2)
Re:Is Florida any better? (Score:5, Funny)
"Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure"
semi-quote from Aliens [imdb.com] :-)
Facts? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.iir.com/matrix/ [iir.com]
[quote]The MATRIX project is implementing factual data analysis from existing data sources to integrate disparate data from many types of Web-enabled storage systems to identify, develop, and analyze terrorist activity and other crimes for investigative leads. This capability will facilitate integration and exchange of information within the participating states, including criminal history, driver license data, vehicle registration records, and incarceration/corrections records including digitized photographs, with significant amounts of public data record entries. Provision has been made for the inclusion of data sources from additional states, should expansion be authorized. The use of factual data analysis from existing data sources will save countless investigative hours and significantly improve the opportunity for successful conclusion of investigations.
Data Security Information submitted by a state may only be disseminated in accordance with restrictions and conditions placed on it by the submitting state, pursuant to the submitting state's laws and regulations. Information will be made available only to law enforcement agencies, and on a need-to-know and right-to-know basis. Data access permissions will be conditioned on the privileges of the user making the inquiry.[/quote]
Re:Facts? (Score:5, Interesting)
That was twenty years ago.
This information has been there for decades. That it is two ergs easier to do today and includes all the backwater states that used mimeographs until the 90's is pretty trivial.
Great way to find scapegoats (Score:5, Insightful)
The public will look at the evidence and proclaim the suspect guilty. The jury will look at the evidence and declare the suspect guilty. Then they'll congradulate the FBI on a job well done. All the while, the real culprit sits back and laughs since he stole the supplies from someone who bought them with cash. He didn't show as a suspect at all.
People look at the fouth amendment and assume it's there to keep the authorities from annoying you. They think it's okay for the authorities to run a search as long as the person being searched doesn't know about it. The thing is, the more people the authorities investigate, the more likely they are to turn up false positives. That may work wonders in picking out a scapegoat, but it won't help find the real criminal if the real criminal took even minimal precautions to stay off the list. The fourth amendment is supposed to do more than protect people from annoying searches. It is there to make sure the authorities do their job right.
Well, it's a good thing ... (Score:2)
MATRIX (Score:3, Funny)
one of 13 states? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:one of 13 states? (Score:5, Informative)
*not* a call to all hackers and crackers (Score:4, Interesting)
Now that we know that Seisint [seisint.com] is compiling a database of all relevant information on *everyone* living in Utah, how long do we think it'll be before one of the many hackers/crackers (possibly sponsored by organized crime, then again equally likely to be doing it just for the kudos) breaks through their corporate security (cough smoke-and-mirrors, if they're like most other companies) and steals the identity of an entire state at once?
Of course " Utah was one of 13 states that hopped on board the pilot program last June -- funded with $12 million in federal grants. But since then, several states have pulled out of the project, citing privacy and financial concerns."
So we're not even talking about just one single state !
C'mon people - fame and fortune, kudos from the slashdot crowd, and your very own entry in the Guinness Book of Records.
I can just see it now Worlds Largest Simultaneous Identity Theft
MATRIX run by former drug smugglers (Score:5, Informative)
As a Utah resident (Score:5, Interesting)
I have to say that I am absolutely outraged at what Gov. Leavitt has apparently done. I wasn't particularly happy with him over his stand on allowing the storage of nuclear waste in our state (something that apparently was a qualification for head of the Environmental Protection Agency).
IANAL, so I wonder - would something like this be grounds for some sort of class action lawsuit?
If it is, count me in.
It amazes me the things we in the US allow our government to do to us in the name of security:
If we the government keeps getting away with passing legislation like this, the terrorists win, and the government *becomes* the terrorists.
Apologies to South Park . . (Score:4, Funny)
Dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb-dummmbbbb
They promise that they won't abuse it
Dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb-dummmbbbb
Echoes of the past (Score:4, Insightful)
I never wanted to live in Russia. I just wanted America to be the place it's supposed to be. I want American freedom to mean more than the freedom to continue shopping while our trusted leaders take care of everything.
Other states are already participating... (Score:3, Informative)
For more information, you can look at the MATRIX homepage [iir.com], listen to an NPR program [npr.org], read some newspaper [ttp] columns [sun-sentinel.com], a findlaw article [findlaw.com], and a politechbot writup [politechbot.com].
The list of participating states can be found here [iir.com].
Connect the dot-products (Score:5, Informative)
Now the Matrix, after being rejected by Georgia for its unwarranted invasions of privacy [usatoday.com], is making the rounds of the rest of the states which owe Bush Jr favors. Idaho governor Leavitt succeeds Governor Kempthorne, just named the previous Idaho governor, to head the EPA [commondreams.org], as it abandons the penalty financing of SuperFund. Check your own state government [usatoday.com] for the favors it owes Bush Corp., before they sell you to the Bush cronies. Drug dealers, vote fixers, Big Brothers: these are the people we have given the power of the US government. Take a stand now, before you have nothing left to defend.
Re:Connect the dot-products (Score:3, Interesting)
I grew up in the land of the free, home of the brave. I don't know how much of the world has changed in my lifetime, but my perspective has changed dramatically.
Every day on the radio, I listen to people arguing to keep immigrant kids out of schools. I hear about civil rights being stripped, reorganized, recategorized, and minimized on a daily basis.
Quite frankly, I am beginning to see the US becoming so much like Nazi germany that I'm afraid of what the next decade will bring.
We ar
Re:Connect the dot-products (Score:4, Interesting)
- Poindexter, when he was part of the DOD and DARPA, devises Total Information Awareness, which will collect vast amounts of data on everyone and then use data mining to spot terrorists, or maybe just to spy on everyone.
- In parallel Florida, presumably led by Jeb Bush, starts funding MATRIX to do pretty much the same thing though its less ambitious. Ironicly MATRIX is devised by a suspected drug smuggler and the person that helped rig the Florida election by disenfranchising black voters.
- Congress is enraged when TIA becomes public and kills it.
- The DOD changes the name to Terrorist Information Awareness
- As nearly as I can tell Congress is allowing Terrorist Information Awareness to continue but under severe restraints:
http://www.darpa.mil/body/tia/tia_report_page.h
In particular TIA is allowed to use only these two kinds of data:
(a) foreign intelligence and counter intelligence information legally obtained and usable by the Federal Government under existing law
(b) wholly synthetic (artificial) data that has been generated, for research purposes only, to resemble and model real-world patterns of behavior.
It appears Congress must have forbidden using real data on American citizens.
Meanwhile MATRIX is doing basicly the thing Congress forbad TIA from doing. MATRIX was state funded but now the DOJ and Homeland Security are chipping in $12 million.
You have to wonder if Congress realizes what kind of suckers they've been played for.
learn to think, then attempt to post (Score:3, Informative)
I'm going to clearly reiterate what I have presented [slashdot.org], for the benefit of those who might have been distracted by your insane rants. Hank Asher is an active bad guy, with a long history of crime. His associates ran Iran-Contra (in wh
Use this database for only $0.50 to $4.50! (Score:5, Informative)
The $4.50 "Comprehensive Report" includes "Address Summary, Others using SSN, Date/Locations where SSN Issued, Census Data, Bankruptcy Indicator, Property Indicator and Corporate Affiliations Indicator, Bankruptcy, UCC Filings, Corporate Affiliations, Driver's Licenses, Vehicle Registrations, Property, Merchant Vessels, FAA Pilots, FAA Aircraft, Professional Licenses, Florida Accidents, Voter Registration, Hunting/Fishing Permits, Concealed Weapons Permits, Associates, Relatives (3 Degrees), Neighbors, Criminal Convictions and Sexual Offenders." More advanced searches include arrest data, gun licenses, property ownership, Internet domain name ownership, and a "Patriot Act Search".
Order now, and get the facts on anyone.
Much of this information has been available for some time, but never before has it beeen assembled into one convenient package available to anyone at a low price. See product reviews [accurint.com], including "You can't hide from Accurint" and "No Place to Hide".
Now with XML support, a batch interface for bulk users, and 24 hour tech support!
If you have a problem with that, tough.
"It doesn't matter that we have a dossier (Score:3, Insightful)
There is no longer any law, just legislation. There is no longer any law-enforcement - just enforcement. It is no longer possible to be a policeman, and also a good man. The law does not recognise rights; so, rights do not recognise the law. I hereby declare anarchy!
Does anyone see any similarities? (Score:3, Insightful)
We're going to spend hundreds of millions or billions of dollars, piss off the world as a whole, lose our civil rights, and many of us will lose our inalienable rights.
In the end nothing will have been accomplished but a short period of country-wide unity and a temporary popularity surge for a national leader who really does not deserve it.
Need to change the focus (Score:4, Insightful)
We need to shift the focus of the debate from whether or not the database exists to how it is used. I think we need a new Bill of Rights to protect us from inaccurate and misused information in ANY database.
People should be able to sue the hell out of a database provider who distributes inaccurate information, and the responsiblility for accuracy should rest on the provider, not on the poor slob being tracked.
In fact, maybe there OUGHT to be a government sponsored database, because then there would be a specific place to go check for inaccuracies, instead of trying to guess who's got what on you.
And there should be severe restrictions on the uses that can be made of the information. I don't care if the government knows I marched against the war, but I damn well don't expect to get my taxes audited as a result. It's way easier to enforce restrictions on the inappropriate use of information than it is on the simple collection of it.
And anyone using data about me from the database should be liable if they can't prove they're using it on me, not someone else. What if you could sue Macy's for opening a credit account in your name using your credit data if it wasn't really you?
Government doesn't have to be the enemy. This is a place where the power of government could be used to protect us. Of course, you'd have to have a government that cared.
I don't know about anyone else (Score:4, Insightful)
Leave it to Utah.
how ironic (Score:4, Interesting)
Maybe they did it to discredit the voices of those that protest the act? "Oh, they're just geeks with a Matrix obsession, and are overreacting because they're all anarchists."
Otherwise, why else name it MATRIX? You'd think they'd want to avoid anhy sort of association with complete thought control. Right?
Or is this simply a sign of how incredibly subdued the average citizen is already?
Personal Data (Score:5, Interesting)
I guess the points I'm making are:
-
There was a really cool upside to this system. It really could have been a benefit to the doctors and patients in providing them better care. It could, and also would, have been used to deny care to cuts costs.
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Corporations generally do not care about data security until the lack of said security jeapordizes their bottom line or places them at legal risk.
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If the system ever DID make it into production, the information contained within could have easily been made available to the governement and/or highest bidder -- as is the case with the company running the MATRIX system.
The way I see it is that the benefits don't outway the risks. Just because we can doesn't mean we should.Ask Japanese Americans if... (Score:5, Informative)
Then ask youself if The PATRIOT ACT, a law hastily passed by congress and signed by the president BEFORE THE ACT WAS EMBROSSED, will treat all Americans any better than FDR and the FBI treated Japanese American.
Then think about the RICO law, designed to prevent Mafia gangsters from using their ill-gotten gain to fight prosecution. When it was passed congress promised it would only be used against the Mafia. Now, several decades later, it is used over 10,000 times a year against ordinary citizens. The most common use of RICO today is by local police departments using jail-house snitches as a pretext to steal private property and fence it (sell is what rightful owners do, fence is what thieves do) in order to supplement their budgets and fund purchase of items too costly for local budgets. RICO declares property 'guilty' so even if the owners later prove their innocence or prove a case of mistaken identity, the police can and usually do keep the property.
When the cops become robbers who can YOU go to for protection?
When the DOJ sides with the Robber Barrons and the Courts become their hand puppets where can YOU seek judical relief?
When Congress sells its soul to the highest bidder, repeals the Bill of Rights, sells off trades and patents, votes itself a retirement package equal to its salary and with 100% free health care, and considers the office an inheritable birthright, who do YOU vote for?
Plainly, WE deserve the corruption WE tolerate.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Easy (Score:3, Funny)
Before everyone gets all up in arms about this as a potential invasion of privacy I should point out that Utah's social homogeneity meant that only 4 actual dossiers had to be assembled -- everyone else's dossier was a symbolic link to one of those 4.
Re:Conspiracy? (Score:5, Insightful)
However now would be a good time to decide how much data can be collected and kept for the entire life of an individual and who can do that collection.
My gut feeling is that each single piece of information needs to be fought over and an ongoing battle between the individual and other parties should begin.
Consider the fact that it would be a trivial if expensive excercise to record every single keystroke you ever type, every purchase you make, every conversation and movement you ever make on camera, every person you know, every email sent, every website visited, every late bill, every parking fine, every day off sick. All at the mercy of datamining software. The ironic thing is that the realy bad people who law enforcement want to catch probably wont be on that database because they will live on the margins of society and use stolen identities.
A record which knows more about you than you do yourself and its all online down at your local police headquarters. Not that the police are necessarily bad guys, trouble is that AdvertisingDotCom will have the same thing as the police have on their database and all they care about is owning your money. I thought slavery had been outlawed but it looks like we are about to bring it back in the name of economic efficiency.
Time to wake up and get on the civil liberty bandwagon.
Re:Conspiracy? (Score:3, Insightful)
Do they understand the difference between correlation and causation?
Do they know that statistically billion to one odds means the thing has happened to 7 people?
Somewhere out there, there's a guy who has un-alibied absences on his record that exactly match with a string of unsolved robberies, and he ISN"T the robber.
History lesson correction (Score:3, Informative)
You have a Democratic Defeceit (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's a big deal because it's a centralized database that enjoys a legal status more powerful than any individual in which it represents. Governemtental bodies, corperations, and others that have authority to make decisions that affect a human life can and will base their decisions upon the information found in centralised dossiers. Your arguments against any inaccuracies or biased representations will carry far less weight, and you will be dealt with by a system where your past history is too much of a liability to ignore regardless of your present intent.
In short: It spits upon the grave of every man who has given their life to protect the freedom and liberty in these United States.
Other than that... No big deal... None at all.
Re:America: Wake the fuck up! (Score:5, Insightful)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 31, @07:23PM (#8146965)
Please... Europe has never been "free", but until recently we here in the old country could aspire to going to america. Now, america is turning into prewar germany, and we've got no where to go. Stop it! before it's too late!
This AC got modded Troll. But I wanted to repost it.
I'll tell a little story. I read, not too long ago, a story written by a daughter of a German migrant. This women's parents left germany during/before the true rise of Hitler.
Now, for those who may have only thought of Nazis as Evil Ones(TM) in a cartoon manner, stop and consider their rise to power. There *was* wide-spread support for the Nazis. They won an election to take power -- Germans SUPPORTED the Nazis. The nation was in a state of euphoria, literally in love with the notion of their own greatness...
This women's parents left because they sensed something basic and unsettling was happening. They new what Germany was becoming and where it could lead.
Near the end of her article she spoke about the USA. Its hubris, its sense of infallibility and selfrighteousness. She wondered if she would have the strength and wisdom to recognize when the USA had reached this tipping point, she wondered if it was now... or would be soon.
As a foriegn observer (Canadian) I just want to tell you that this Matrix stuff is not a surprise. The USA (its government) is heading off on a very strange tangent. Just consider for a moment that the world watched -- with not a little public objection -- the USA invade and occupy two foriegn nations.... whatever you might think justified this act, please consider: The USA is actively invading other nations unprovoked*.
I want people to see what this AC is saying, because I agree. If you think you can sit back and reelect a Republicrat (again, as you have continuously for 100 years) and things will get better you're very wrong.
Let me lay it out, something is very wrong with the USA; its fat, angry, powerfull and violent. Your leaders think they world belongs to them -- and you citizens are sheep -- and we are all going to suffer immensly if something is not done to re-align the USA.
This Matrix stuff is nothing.
* the WTC crashes were criminal acts, the kind of behaviour that requires police, not armies... unless of course you are the kind of proto-fascist-jingoist-American I am worried about, who refuses to consider this reality....(and the article-author sees her country-men becoming)
Re:America: Wake the fuck up! (Score:3, Insightful)
Sharks kill more people than terrorists do. Cars kill tens of times more people than terrorists do. Smoking kills hundreds of times more people than terrorists do. Cancer and heart desease kill thousands of times more people than terrorists do. But THEY do not show those dead people on TV, and so YOU believe that those deaths do not happen.
Please, check out this anti-Bush ad [speedera.net] to see exactly what I am talking about.
Free your mind. Learn the math. Fi