Bell Labs Demos Cell Phone Location Software 341
mateub writes "AP via Yahoo reports that Bell Labs will soon announce cell phone software to reveal the owner's location to interested parties. To alleviate privacy concerns they say the software will 'let cell users be as picky as they choose about disclosing their whereabouts' but the article goes on to mention 'the ability for restaurants and other businesses to send a solicitation by text message to a cell phone when its owner wanders within range of those merchants.' Oh, wonderful, cellular popups..."
Hmm.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hmm.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Hmm.... (Score:3, Funny)
You are in Tokyo, standing next to a building, filled with 3,845 single women, would you like to list them?
New business model. (Score:5, Funny)
(At least I didn't say 3...profit)
Re:Hmm.... (Score:2)
Or turn off the sound for incoming SMS, and use it for voice only. Or ask your telco turn off SMS service for your phone.
But if you are in still living in your parents basement, ya, no need for a cellphone. Analog will do. (-;
Re:Hmm.... (Score:2)
Re:Hmm.... (Score:3, Funny)
In five years, that statement will sound a lot like, "Sounds like a very good reason for me to stay off this 'Internet' thing."
Guess who'll be working at Burger King, flipping burger orders that people punched in on their cell phones...
Can we have phone booths back? (Score:2)
I'm not thrilled about the idea either... (Score:3, Interesting)
No need to turn it on all the time. (Score:3)
Of course, my phone is a PDA, so it does a lot more than that, too. That just makes it easier to remember to take it with me.
the thing is (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't have a home phone; I only keep the cell phone. Why? Because I can't see the point of having a land line that is only going to subject me to a constant torrent of tele-marketing. With the cell-phone if someone needs or wants to reach me, they can no matter where I happen to be. My typical response is to not reply, and then later when accused of ignoring whoever it was that was trying to reach me i can blame it on poor cell service. Land lines almost never go down and people will only
Great for kids (Score:4, Insightful)
Child abduction is a major problem that affects thousands of families every year. This kind of cell phone tracking would go far to help find missing kids before they end up dead and in a ditch.
Yeah right (Score:5, Insightful)
Step 1: Kidnap Kid
Step 2: Throw any phone they have in the dumpster
Really, why the hell do you think any kidnappers are going to let a kid keep his PHONE on him? You think they're THAT stupid?
Re:Yeah right (Score:3, Insightful)
Really, why the hell do you think any kidnappers are going to let a kid keep his PHONE on him? You think they're THAT stupid?
Yes. Most criminals are very stupid.Re:Yeah right (Score:3, Interesting)
Obviously, you know all, so care to share that statistic with us? Or, were you just making a highly uninformed statement to try and cover up the fact that you have no clue what you're talking about?
Never mind, I hit the nail on the head, so I'll give you a sample: typically, the number of unsolved murders has hung around 20-30% of cases according to various FBI statistics. Since that covers everything from someone blowing someone away in broad daylight in a fit of rage to premeditation, that's not a partic
Re:Yeah right (Score:4, Insightful)
Lets see the scenerios.
first. 13 year old child is home alone (quite reasonable) after school for two hours and is absolutly not supposed to do anything else without contecting his/her parents.
On the way home said child is abducted and phone left in a dumpster. Parents come home and flip. Child does not answer phone. They then use this service and find the phone in a dumpster. hmmm, seams like foul play.
If the phone was not trackable it is going to be at least 8 hours before anyone who can do anything (athorities) care. They probably won't really do anything until the next morning.
I somehow see the phone in the dumpster as a big clue that something is up.
Re:Yeah right (Score:2)
I got distracted and didn't finish my post.
This is not an excuse to have this built into/default to activated on every cellphone. It is only my belief that it could possibly have a use and that a child really has no choice if their parent wants to track them. There is nothing inherently wrong with that unless the tracking is overly used and makes it s the child is overly sheltered and never becomes a well adjusted adult. But smothering parents set there childrens' developement back by years all
Re:Yeah right (Score:5, Interesting)
So would not phoning home from a friend's house, or not coming home at all.
The cell phone in a dumpster is useless as an indicator, Q.E.D. So that "use" is a farce.
So what is the real use?
1. Selling ads.
2. Tracking law abiding citizens.
3. Locator service for the user. A selling point, but 1. and 2. are the winners here.
Re:Yeah right (Score:2, Insightful)
If the cell phone was discarded it would mean much more. As said 13 year old is probably using it to talk to their friends almost continually.
Also if said cell phone was trackable it would very likly have finger prints of the criminal on it.
Also depending on the MO of the criminal the cellphone in the purse my very well remain. Not all crime
Re:Yeah right (Score:3, Insightful)
If an adult (18+) is "missing" and there is no sign of faul play, the police will wait 24 hours. If a minor (17-) is missing, the police will act right away.
The majority of child abductions are done by a parent. Usually from a nasty divorce. Another portion is done by a close friend/family member. While a small percentage is done by a strang
Re:Yeah right (Score:2)
Re:Yeah right (Score:2)
That said, I agree, it won't stop most kidnappers, and this technology is not going to become pervasive in a matter of months. However, it sure does make it easier fo
Re:Yeah right (Score:2)
I won't tell them that though!
*hope you don't read slashdot lil seann*
Re:Yeah right (Score:2)
Actually, Yes, he is Right (Score:5, Informative)
Criminal uses cell phone [philly.com] to call in kidnapping ransom. Police trace phone, find criminal + kid. Summer 2003
Kidnap victim memorizes rapists cellphone [cbsnews.com]. Police check registry, find perp. Jun 2003
Kidnapped woman had cellphone hidden on person [clari.net]. Cops trace it to car, catch perp in parking lot. Nov 2003
And many more... [google.com]
Re:Actually, Yes, he is Right (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yeah right (Score:2)
Re:Great for kids (Score:4, Insightful)
This technology afaik just builds on the infrastructure that providers also have for E911 (in US) and tries to commercialize it for ad revenue et al. Right now they're talking about letting spouses and friends know about your location, but eventually there could be some provision that ad companies pay for sending the sms or mms (at bulk rates of course), and that would open the floodgates for much more targeted advertising. Especially since once its the sender who's paying for cell bandwidth, it becomes 'acceptable' like for telemarketing to land lines (of course the time you spend answering such calls is apparently worthless!).
Not so great for kids (Score:5, Insightful)
It can be worse, it can be used to mislead. Of course they can just turn the phone off (you going to trigger an alert on every dead battery or out of range cell phone?) but they can also plant it at the home or the home of some red herring.
But here's the real question. Kids have rights. At what age will parents finally let their kids be free of the surveillance anklet we're calling a cell phone?
I can tell you it will be later than it should be for almost all parents, that is their nature, and it's understandable.
But I think if we are going to have readily available child-lojack, there may need to be a law to protect the children from their parents, and forbid doing it after the age of 12. The kids can still have a phone, can still call 911 and transmit their location, but no parent query.
Otherwise we destroy the freedom of all kids to catch one stupid criminal out of 100,000 who doesn't know to turn off the phone. All the other times it will be used to say, "I told you not to associate with that Jimmy kid."
Re:Not so great for kids (Score:4, Insightful)
I know many people who keep their fingers on the tuition-kill switch, so that if their kid steps "out of line" (get bf/gf the parental units don't like, listen to the wrong music, don't come home every weekend to mow the grass) the student gets to take out loans. Say what you will about parents paying tuition, but I think it should be one or the other, pay or don't, or at least tie it to academic performance, not lifestyle choices.
The majority of small children don't have cellphones. Older highschool students and college students do. THAT is the parental potential of this device.
Re:Not so great for kids (Score:2)
Re:Not so great for kids (Score:2)
I am fully aware that many parents believe that kids do not have rights. Indeed, most parents will believe that about their own kids at an emotional level, even though they know at an intellectual level, when thinking about how to have a just society that kids do have rights.
That's not to say the state should regularly intervene to protect children from their parents, even big-brotherish
Re:Not so great for kids (Score:2)
for some kids, i'm sure a child-lojack is necessary. but not all, and i'd wager not the majority. and to be perfectly frank, a kid's parents are often not objective enough to make the proper decision. the parents that would love this sort of thing are overprotective by definition. notice the "over-" prefix attached to that word. it implies an excess. too much.
the bottom line - people make decisions, some good, some bad. i know when i was a kid, especially in my early- to mid
Re:Not so great for kids (Score:2)
Kids need controled rights. Up to the parent to decide which rights the kid can handle. At 5 the kids every movement needs to be supervised (not nessicarly closely, it is good enough for one parent on the block to take a bunch to the park). At 13 the kid can make decisions, and be unsupervised for a time. However kids still do stupid things, so the parent needs to keep watch on them. Each kid is different, so exactly what needs to be done differes from kid to kid and situation to situation.
All this
Re:Great for kids (Score:4, Interesting)
Sure, having a phone that knows where it is is a good thing. Telling everyone in the world that 555-1212 has been standing at the bus stop for 15 minutes, and that all the other cell phones in the area have moved on to somewhere else is most certainly not good. Not even close. And if they're going to let the restaurant down the street know where 555-1212 is, they're most certainly not aiming at the privacy I'd want for MY kids whereabouts. (I suppose I could teach my kid to say "no" to the cell phone tracking message when it comes up for everyone but me, if they really do implement that feature of letting people choose)
No, if I was going to give this to my kid, it would have to be on demand, with a password. I call 1800findkid, enter the cellphone number, enter my pin, and then it contacts the cellphone, some form of challenge authentication against the pin I had entered directly into the cellphone and the cellphone responds with its location.
Re:Great for kids (Score:2)
I totally don't believe it to be thousands, besides the fact that the kidnapper would just throw the phone away.
Re:Great for kids (Score:2)
Re:Great for kids (Score:2)
Re:You're right (Score:3, Funny)
Minority Report? (Score:2, Funny)
First, TV commercial ads, now text messaging ads.. (Score:4, Informative)
I'm not a big fan of this, however it could be nice for people if it is like GPS. And I could see people at local bars using the features to locate other 'singles.' Lots of possibilities.
Re:First, TV commercial ads, now text messaging ad (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:First, TV commercial ads, now text messaging ad (Score:3, Interesting)
sure, i think a variation of this based on GPS would actually be useful. in that scenario your device tells *you* where you are and you can pull up directories/services/info/whatever relevant to that area.
the scenario they describe though has *others* know where you are, and advertise at you against your will.
i don't
Scary. (Score:5, Interesting)
No need to transmit at all, most of the time (Score:5, Insightful)
Only in an emergency need you tell the outsiders where you are. You don't even want to always tell trusted people where you are. That's like being lojacked. Given the ability, how can you say to your wife, "Honey, I don't want you to see my location every minute of every day?"
Unless she's a good, understanding privacy advocate.
For an example of a nice location aware app that doesn't have to tell the network where you are, check out this blog entry about The Big Yellow Button [4brad.com]
Re:No need to transmit at all, most of the time (Score:2)
I open my mouth and say it, or better yet, just turn the damn "feature" off. (Or easier still, I just don't show her how that feature works.)
What kind of wife do you have where you have to put up with being ankle braceleted to her all the time? I treat my wife well, I don't track her whereabouts or record her phone calls, and I expect the same back. If she doesn't like it, then she kn
Re:No need to transmit at all, most of the time (Score:2)
But I fear you are overly optimistic. Lots of people want this info. It's very useful and convenient. Just as millions today enjoy having their instant messaging system tell them a limited subset of info like this. We love it, we crave it, and we will get it.
Think of how many "where are you?" cell calls get placed. It's probably one of the most common type of calls. How easy to fix that pro
Re:No need to transmit at all, most of the time (Score:2)
Nice, in theory. Very impractical, in reality. The problem is you want to push the intelligence into the device, and a feeble device at that. To ice the cake, there are thousands (perhaps millions) of permutations of "information about the general area."
It is far easier to do the dirty work on the back end, where computing power is more prevalent. Also, the data is subject to change fai
Re:No need to transmit at all, most of the time (Score:2)
Secondly, when this can't be efficient you can make it efficient by having your device transmit your location only to a private server owned by you (encrypted) which then figures out if there is anything you should be told, and tells it to you.
You don't have to design these apps to be usable as surveillance devices, that's just the easy way. It's well worth the added cost t
Is it your cell phone???? (Score:5, Insightful)
Another thought, what about cell phone companies using the phone location service to send bill collectors?
Re:Is it your cell phone???? (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, during your "normal" hours of work. If your company requires you to carry a cellphone outside of your normal working hours you should make sure you have a contract that limits what they can do or find another job.
Enough (Score:5, Insightful)
They told us that navigation system is for navigation. And then, its tracking the cars, speeding tickets.
They told us cookies is just to make the stateless HTTP protocol have some states. And then, its Double Click and all the tracking.
They told us at the grocery store that the card will be used to get discounts. And then, you start getting those annoying mail related to products you bought.
Hello marketing fellas out there, PLEASE stop. Consumer is getting upset.
Re:Enough (Score:2)
I figure in another 15-20 years I'll start getting liver transplant spam.
Who pays for the message? (Score:5, Interesting)
If I get spammed by someone identifiable because I happen to be in their vicinity, I'll be demanding to see the manager and collect my dime refund, just to be a PITA. If enough people do it, that will be end of that kind of spam in the US.
Re:Who pays for the message? (Score:2, Insightful)
5 years after this comes out, getting a cell phone plan will probably cost half as much as it does now, or even less, AS LONG as you get the ad-supported account. This way, they
Re:Who pays for the message? (Score:2)
But yes, if someone else outside the Telco spams you, KA-Ching! BTW, there has already been 3rd party telco's SMSing you and charging your local carrier, forgot about the article, but it was last summer. Think the FCC stepped up and took care of it, but I cant remember the players.
Most /.ers Need Not Worry (Score:3, Funny)
There really isn't much for most to worry about.
Honing In (Score:3, Interesting)
Make it interesting for me ... (Score:2, Funny)
Dial 9-1-1 and it should, automagically, track you (Score:5, Insightful)
"However, given the real-time requirements of transmitting information over a telephone network, it can be difficult to program a wide-range of options for individuals to personalize preferences such as when, where and with whom to share location information. One solution is to hard-code a network database with an "on-off" switch that activates or deactivates a service, for instance, during a window of time with set hours such as peak and off-peak."
So, dial 9-1-1 and your phone should broadcast its location.
Otherwise, just make it an option for the numbers you have stored on your phone and a simple check box for the rest (I want to receive tons of phone spam Y/N).
#1. If I dial 9-1-1, my location is broadcast.
#2. If I turn off the broadcast function, my location is not broadcast (unless #1).
#3. For every phone number I have stored, I have the option to broadcast (or not) my location to that number, provided I have broadcast turned on (#2).
#4. For everyone else, I can choose to receive massive amounts of phone spam (unless #2). Why anyone would choose this option is beyond me.
Any problems with that? It seems simple to me. And it should be easily implemented in software. Of course, it will NOT provide the captive audience for phone spam that seems to be the focus of that article. But so what?
Re:Dial 9-1-1 and it should, automagically, track (Score:2)
Some relationships are good ones where the other party will understand why they don't have a right to the info, but some spouses and definitely some parents and bosses are going to feel bothered if you say no. Some will pretend they are not bothered but they will now start wondering, "Just what is
Re:Dial 9-1-1 and it should, automagically, track (Score:2)
It will be opt-out. And routinely, your phone service will reset your preferences. "We're giving you new features, blah de blah".
And it should be easily implemented in software.
Not a chance. Buried 4 menus deep (and off the main screen), with probably very misleading verbiage.
"Do you want to turn on the negative notification refusal option? Y/N."
It is in their
cellular popups (Score:5, Funny)
Re:cellular popups (Score:3, Funny)
HELLO! I GOT A CELL SPAM FROM YOUR PLACE! WHAT? WHY YES, I KNOW I'M DISTURBING YOUR CLIENTS...
And keep calmly discussion the situation AS LOUDLY AS I CAN, politely awnsering their questions and voicing my dislike of spam. They'll get the picture.
Don't Chuck the Phone. Just Call the Business. (Score:2)
The moment you get one of these messages, the right thing to do is call them back and say you *thought* about going there, but realized you didn't want to support any business who uses this practice.
If 10 people did that in the first week of such a campaign, I'm sure that it would stop pronto.
Location Based Services (Score:3, Informative)
The phone beeps the person if you look them up, they know you did a lookup on thier location. And you can turn it off. The privacy is still there.
I read the other day, Disney is using LBS to move people quickly through the park, offering discounts, telling them which rides have the short lines, etc. Kinda like on-star on steriods. Lots of companies use LBS on trucks, nice to see it used for normal consumers.
So, really, LBS is pretty damn nice, it can be abused, but if your provider is a schmuck and does that crap, move. Number portability
Anyone else notice lots of the posts are about cellphones, telcos, and releated technology. I tell you Wireless Telco's are going to be the large ISP's of the future...
And for for just $4.99 per month. (Score:5, Funny)
They make money one way or another.
At first glance... (Score:5, Interesting)
There have been times when I've been wondering where the nearest {insert favorite exotic food} restaurant is.
- Grab Mobile
- set "restaurants only"=true
- turn on location announcing thingy
- wait 5
- turn off location announcing thingy
- read ads from local restaurants
Wire them up with an electronic compass and it should even be able to give you (updated in realtime, even) directions from where you are.Re:At first glance... (Score:2, Informative)
There have been times when I've been wondering where the nearest {insert favorite exotic food} restaurant is.
We're already moving in that direction in NZ, though perhaps not to as sophisticated a degree as to give directions.
Those using Vodafone mobiles have this option (see the Sim2 link) [vodafone.co.nz] which will let you find restaurants, ATMs etc in the immediate area. It's been available for at least a year that I can remember, and probably longer than that.
The good thing about this option is that it's pull rathe
Re:At first glance... (Score:2)
So, was it a nice rock you've been living under these past few...hundred years?
Hacks (Score:2, Interesting)
Actually, this sounds like a good idea to me... (Score:2)
I've seen several posts that equate this to popup ads and the ilk. I'd rather look at it like Google's AdWords. Depending on their usage (say restaurant A says "Mention code 12345" to get a 15% discount on your meal), these could be rather useful. AdWords is effective because the advertisement is extremely targeted; a sniper-rifle approach, if you will, compared to the pop-up or SPAM shotgun approach to marketing.
I can see how dr
Re:Actually, this sounds like a good idea to me... (Score:2)
No, you should be driving, instead of dicking around around with your cellphone.
Why not figure out where you want to go first, then just go there.
Can you see me now? (Score:3, Funny)
push vs. pull (Score:5, Interesting)
In particular, I don't want the restaurants (or other stores) to even know I'm nearby until I ask the phone to poll for that information.
Re:push vs. pull (Score:2)
How is it done? Simple triangulation of the signal strengths between the masts spotted around you.
- Oisin
Popups (Score:5, Funny)
Could be interesting when you pass that 'massage parlour' you never knew was there
Enable Location Privacy (Score:2)
Yawn... already have this on my phone (Score:2, Informative)
Until January it only did GPS and was a major battery drain. Now it's been updated, and if it can't see the GPS sats it just triangulates its position from the cell towe
question (Score:3, Interesting)
Not so bad after all... good for consumer (Score:2)
Don't Neglect the Useful Applications (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd love to get an SMS when I-684/I-95 are jammed, and I'd love it even more if the service was free, paid for by an ad for the local Dunkin Donuts.
On the fence (Score:3, Interesting)
That said, if I could be guaranteed that the locator service information was only good for the time of the query and wasn't logged in any way and that I could, from my phone, turn the feature on and off at will, I think I would try it.
Could be worse (Score:2, Insightful)
Seems the easiest thing to do would be to turn
Re-imbursement? (Score:3, Insightful)
Opting out! (Score:2)
Some Advantages (Score:2, Interesting)
But it wasn't location based advertising, per se. It was location based coupons, eg, you walk into a Foot Locker, and get a message that will give you 10% off any Reebok for the next 20 minutes. Another use was instead of having to wait in line at the DMV (or taking a number and waiting to be called), go in, register your phone, and recieve a text messa
Location Review (Score:2)
Turn on your phone and download or record customer reviews on the restaurant you are about to enter. Just walking through the door could activate not only coupons and ads, but allow you to grab menus from all restaurants in the area; see wait times; place a reservation; and read reviews left by patrons over the last couple of hours/days.
This has potential for a lot of convenience and power...as well as significant ab
Some areas of abuse (Score:2, Insightful)
1) Angry spouse getting back at partner (ie, escaping violent environment holed up at an undisclosed location)
2) Law officers having their cell numbers given out, then called, hang up, when called back, their locations revealed. Endanger their families.
3) Same for judges, crummy construction contractors, bad auto repair shop owners... anybody who might make someone else mad for one reason or another.
Need I go on?
What if one of our nation
Danger of Cell Phones in Cars (Score:2, Interesting)
Cell phone users are already dangerous enough on the road when they are speaking to their step mother's sisters's daughter's best friend about what colour they should get their nail polish.
Example:
A person is in their car driving happily along, paying attention to the road and making a slight effort at being a safe and defensive driver. They drive right past their favourite McDonalds restaurant and t
yep - we launched all this in Sept 2000 (Score:3, Interesting)
Our applications gave total control to user with global on/off and selective sharing of generated PIN with friends on list.
Even now in 2004 network based positioning systems not precise enough to beep door-by-door for that available single right next to you so can stop worrying about that.
Also here in Australia there must be a different assumption as to marketing and ads fears expressed - everyone from telco to providers to businesses here realise big time spamming will kill such services cold.
We did 80 categories of content too and they were really popular to pull up relevant locations at any time, near you or somewhere else.
Our latest generation services allows for free text searches as well so users are again in total control in roaming through our content with or without positioning.
Alex.
www.findmap.com.au
Not new... (Score:2, Informative)
He told me that they were thinking on how to sell this stuff. Until now, nothing happened.
All I want to say is: If this is ready (for one year already) here in Brazil, U.S. and Europe must have this working for ages already.
Tinfoil hat anyone?
Remember who this is for... (Score:4, Interesting)
Repeat after me.
"We are not the consumers. We are the product. Advertisers are the consumers."
Telemarketing on my cell (Score:2, Interesting)
Cellular pop ups won't work (Score:3, Insightful)
Also been tried in Switzerland (as well as Sweden) (Score:3, Informative)
The technology was quite accurate enough at the time, but the service was never successful due to privacy concerns and was removed.
Since the technology already worked, Swisscom has instead been offering Swisscom friendZone [friendzone.ch] since 2001. With friendZone, you can see who else is near you (in the same cell? I have no idea how it works). I believe it's anonymized at first, so you can talk to people as if on IRC or in some other reasonably anonymous meeting place. Once you add people to your friends list, you can also use the service to locate them geographically. The idea is to generate a lot of revenue for the telco through SMS chatting. Yes, some people here are actually happy to pay EUR 0.10 for every "ok" and "lol" they send.
So the technology, at least in this implementation, is old. As so often in the mobile market, Europe lags behind Japan and the USA lag behind Europe.
Re:cells (Score:2, Interesting)
in favor of the idea, as it will undoubtedly
improve children's safety. It also has many, rather
mundane applications, and there are already
subcription services offering this.
However, privacy advocates rightly point out that
there is much potential for abuse. However, the
ability of the operator to locate users is built
in to the network. All this story about, is making
that info availiable to end users.
However, as an aside, your question implies
a false dichotomy -
Re:cells (Score:5, Interesting)
improve children's safety."
how so? Are you saying the kidnapper won't through the cell phone out the window?
How about this, the kidnapper tosses the childs phone into a different vehical going in another direction?
Re:cells (Score:2)
The real question is, who is the end user.
Hint: It ain't you.
Re:Regarding Popups... (Score:5, Informative)
You are right though. The system will be abused.