China Releases Cyber Dissident 470
Ridgelift writes "Reuters UK has the story on the release of three 'cyber dissidents' just one week before a trip by visit by Premier Wen Jiabao to the United States. One of the dissidents, 23-year-old Liu Di, aka the 'Stainless Steel Mouse,' had been detained since November 2002. She wrote political satire about the ruling Communist Party and posted messages in Internet chatrooms calling for the release of online dissidents. She was never formally charged, but kept at Qincheng Prison for over a year."
Unfair! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Unfair! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Unfair! (Score:2)
f1yN c]-[Ik3n l0vR
Re:Unfair! (Score:4, Funny)
In Counterstrike you lose the ability to type properly?
In Counterstrike you are a sad fuck who gets upset when people can't or won't understand the points you are trying to make?
Please don't Rox0r my Box0r - wtf I was j/k mofo so u stfu kthxbye
Arse.
Re:Unfair! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Unfair! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Unfair! (Score:2, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
Re:consider yourself lucky (Score:3, Funny)
Prisoner? (Score:2)
Dont listen to her lies! She wasnt a prisoner, she was just visiting!
"Political Satire" (Score:5, Interesting)
RD
Re:"Political Satire" (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:"Political Satire" (Score:4, Insightful)
I can only assume that by "no-no", you mean "a human right, which is viciously punished...
Where in the world would it be safe to speak of things sensitive to the government, and not be hassled in one way or the other? Perhaps pulling the offender into prison without reason seems somewhat "brutal", but how is it different from making up some fancy charges and then still putting the person into prison? What, "terrorism"?
On what basis are you saying that they are "thugs"?
That would be because it's not something to put someone in prison for, even under the "laws" that the commie thugs claim to follow.
And you bet that hasn't happened in places, say, the United States?
Hypocrisy abounds in communist countries.
Hypocrisy is in every political group. Why does it only apply to communist countries? Or does the term "hypocrisy" only apply to those that you dislike, and everything else, no matter how self-contradicting it is, is all correct if the person/group in question is those of your liking?
China does not live under the rule of law, it is under the yoke of the Mao dynasty, which has vastly outdone all previous Chinese dynasties for the brutality it has shown to the Chinese people.
How is it under the rule of the "Mao Dynasty"? The current leaders are apparently quite different from Mao in their attitude and actions. China isn't even strictly a communist country now, though it still claims it is.
Simpleton (Score:5, Interesting)
Not a very deep thinker are you? The US and EU combined are about half the population of China. Do you mean to say that if our populations were simply to double, our best option would be to abandon democracy, rule of law, elections, free markets, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc., and demonstrate that anyone who disagreed would end up dead? That's really the best you can come up with?
You sound like a product of Chinese (re)education.
Of course, you could argue that we can do it because we don't have to have one government controlling all of those people. We have several governments, each covering only a portion of those people, each subject to independent replacement every election day.
Of course China doesn't have to do it all with one government either. The Tibetans, Uighurs, Taiwanese, Hong Kongese...would love to take some of the "burden" off those poor overworked murderers in Beijing. But Beijing is just like you. They can't think of a better way for them to keep governing than by doing what they're doing, either.
Re:Simpleton (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Simpleton (Score:5, Insightful)
You sound like a product of Chinese (re)education.
Which is exactly why those in power in China don't want the Chinese people exposed to free thinking and the outside world.
Quick story. Six hundred years ago, China kicked ass in pretty much everything. Zheng He's fleet of ships discovered the world in Junks that were probably 500 years ahead of anything anyone else had* - so when they got back, China decided the world had nothing to offer them and prmptly closed up the borders... Anyway, my point is that Chinas leaders have a history of overly controlling it's people and it's a strategy that clearly doesn't work. In those 600 years, the world has caught up and China is renowned for cheap labour. Nice going guys. Imagine where both the world and China would be today if the borders had been open and knowledge flowed freely. Imagine the world a couple of hundred years from now - that's where we might have been if a bunch of old men hadn't got it wrong.
China has a billion people, many of whom could do amazing things given the opportunity, but some small minded politicians are too scared of losing power money control and face, that they oppress and brainwash the masses into thinking it's for the best. Nice plan, but it won't work for ever - it never works for ever.
I hope the Chinese people take control back soon, so China can regain some of its former glory.
* Had floodable compartments for fishing / washing, navigated with a compass, huge hull size, etc, etc.
Re:Simpleton (Score:2)
Descent of China is most likely due to other reasons (like invasions from Mongols, European imperialists, Japanese imperialists, etc).
S
Re:Simpleton (Score:3, Interesting)
In Europe, many relatively small groups of people people were more exposed to different ideas and cultures. China was relatively introspective on a large scale, both due to politics and culture (is there a difference?). I think that has more to do with the decline than any other reasons.
I won't claim to be a historian, but Mongolia isn't what it used to be, Japan is still a small group of islands, and Hong Kong aside, Europe is still in Europe. Despite pockets of defeat, China did ok dealing with the other
Re:Simpleton (Score:5, Insightful)
Secondly, China's former glory was based on exactly the kind of repressive system that is in place today: indeed at the height of China's power, the repression was even more extreme. None of China's peoples, apart from a tiny elite, ever had any power. The time in history when power was distributed a little more widely was during the Cultural Revolution: not exactly a ringing endorsement for student power, Chinese style.
Does this mean that I approve of China's system? Absolutely not. But I do recognise that it is nonsense (except as a propoganda ploy) to demand that China adopt a system that would lead to its self destruction. If China's current economic progress can be leveraged to directly benefit the population at large (and people become overwhelmingly satisified with their lives personally) tolerating most forms of dissent may become practicable. As things stand today, allowing political pluralism would probably result in violent upheaval in the short term interests of nobody.
China's problems are complex.
Re:Simpleton (Score:3, Insightful)
Frankly, the US is not well placed to criticize those in other countries for trying to conserve their power by improper means.
I hope you don't think I'm American do you? Anyway, no system works forever, and the political structure needs to reflect that. In my country we've moved through a couple of methods already, because that what the people wanted. Amazing stuff, and nobody even got overthrown.
Firstly, and most important, there is no single Chinese people.
No kidding. I have friends who are Mongol
Re:Simpleton (Score:2)
More detail. [time.com]
A good route. [chinapage.org]
An old NYT take on it [huaren.org]
I'll agree that they didn't find blue water too often, but they sure could have.
Re:"Political Satire" (Score:3, Interesting)
sorry, my english is not good enough to translate her writing.
more info about the brave young girl (quote from that website):
Liu Di is a 22-year-old student at the Department of Psychology, Beijing Normal University.
On November 7, 2002, the police of PRC arrested Miss Liu. No detention warrant has been shown to Liu or her family, and nobody has informed Miss Liu's whereabout to her family and the university after more than one month.
Until now, the only message Liu's family receive
Re:"Political Satire" (Score:3, Informative)
Re:"Political Satire" (Score:3, Interesting)
"The Chinese government needs to become more open and transparent, crack down on corruption within its ranks, and institutionalize universal human rights protections for its citizens."
Funny stuff, huh.
Re:Truly (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:cop killers aren't political prisoners (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:cop killers aren't political prisoners (Score:2)
That's rare, at least in the US. Someone who protests his innocence sets himself up to be assaulted by the other prisoners. They quickly learn not to shout that stuff randomly.
Atleast, with China... (Score:4, Interesting)
OTOH, what good is served when chaps like RMS, Linus, Bruce, ESR etc. are all out in the open, yet can't achieve anything useful with just dissidence? To top it, we have some famous chaps from SCO on this side of the law, spouting their "Intellectual Property" claims!
What happened to fighting for freedom in the USA? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What happened to fighting for freedom in the US (Score:2)
Re:What happened to fighting for freedom in the US (Score:2)
Welcome to an inverse Orweillian world where Bad is Good, Nationalism is Patriotism, Slavery is Freedom, and Anti-war Protestors are Terrorists... yes, it's it's that bizarre...
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Re:Atleast, with China... (Score:2)
Outrageous! (Score:5, Funny)
Never formally charged! That's outrageous! When will those Chicoms desist from such tyrannical and autocratic practices and embrace democracy, a proper Bill of Rights and the rule of law like we have here in the good ol' US of A.
Re:Outrageous! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Outrageous! (Score:2, Interesting)
We have about 175 or so 'enemy combatents' detained in this manner, some US citizens w/ no political affiliations at all that are being detained like this.
Id like to say this is going to end soon, but i think this will become the 'norm' unless we can get a good switch of power (not just bush), if they dont get labeled enemy combatants themselves. (Nothing stops Bush from labeling Dean, and Clark ene
Re:Outrageous! (Score:3, Insightful)
That's a personal attack [datanation.com] and not a logical argument.
You know, ever few years there is a big public scandel and we discover that some local police department has corrupt officers. Common sense suggests that there remain corrupt officers throughout the country. Do we dismiss out of hand the statements of the law enforcement community as a result? The same goes for, say,
It's called compare and contrast (ie, not OT) (Score:5, Interesting)
Kevin_Mitnick [wikipedia.org]
Re:It's called compare and contrast (ie, not OT) (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It's called compare and contrast (ie, not OT) (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It's called compare and contrast (ie, not OT) (Score:2)
How many of the "Free Kevin" crowd were arrested and sent to prison for calling for his release?
Mitnick was mistreated and had his crimes exagerated, but he was a criminal who got himself into the situation. The Guantanamo prisoners are mistreated, but they traveled to another country and took up arms fighting for a terrorist regime. This girl did nothing that you and I don't do every day.
Re:It's called compare and contrast (ie, not OT) (Score:2)
Actually it's YOU who is losing the perspective. No one is saying that USA is as totalitarian as China. What matters is not the specifics! Instead, it is the PRINCIPLE that
Re:It's called compare and contrast (ie, not OT) (Score:2)
sounds like mistreatment to me.
now you might think that they deserve it and all yadda yadda yadda yad that but that doesn't change it. it's not all that different from what china(and russia and...) do regularly.
Re:It's called compare and contrast (ie, not OT) (Score:5, Insightful)
Ofcourse, you could argue that these are all lies and hearsay, and that the US government would never ever use torture. But it is a fact that prisoners on guantanamo bay are held illegally (according to the geneva convention they should be pow's, but the US claims they aren't), and that they do not have due process rights (inalienable human right). If the US is breaking the law anyway in their detainment of these prisoners, would it be such a stretch to imagine them using torture as well?
There is such a thing as psychological torture by the way. If you're being held without accusation, without promise of release, ever (despite that the war in afghanistan is over, pow's haven't been returned or formally accused of a crime), and without even access to counsel or basically the outside world, would you feel ok? I'd feel downright miserable in such circumstances, even if they did not lay a hand on me. The geneva convention's definition of torture is "cruel and unusual treatment", which does not need to have a physical component involved.
I see no need for guantanamo bay. If the people there did something wrong, the regular US judicial system should be able to handle it. If they didn't do something wrong (and no, fighting for your country is not a crime), they should be freed. The very existance of guantanamo bay is a slap in the face of justice.
Re:It's called compare and contrast (ie, not OT) (Score:3, Insightful)
Once you start doing crap like that, lets just say it should be a warning sign. When you actually start to believe in your semantics shell game... all hope is lost.
Translation (Score:5, Funny)
So Qincheng is the Chinese word for Guantanamo, then? Good to know.
Re:Translation (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Translation (Score:2, Interesting)
It is not custom to release POWs before the war is over (and these weren't POWs). It really isn't much to ask for; to count as a legal combatant all you have to do is have a clear chain of command and some kind of uniform (a piece of cloth wrapped around the arm is enough).
The people held i
Re:Translation (Score:3, Insightful)
How do you figure there are "rules of war" to be followed at all?
Re:Translation (Score:2, Insightful)
But Congress, having the sole authority to declare war on behalf of the United States, has not done so.
Apparently you are under the impression that any use of force by the Executive Branch must be authorized by the Legeslature and prefaces with some sort of magic words like "We hearby formally and absolutely declair war on the parties causing us so much unpleasantless" or somethinig similar? You are at odds with Thomas Jefferson and anybody else who knows the first thing about w
Re:Translation (Score:2)
To me, it's extremely strange that these prisoners are being held within the borders of a communist nation which has been declared an enemy by the current US administration. If these p
Re:Translation (Score:3, Interesting)
Guantanamo Bay (Score:3, Insightful)
Republican hawks believe that using Guantanamo Bay "sends a message of strength." They make no secret that they want to continually push the boundaries of acceptable U.S. military b
Re:Guantanamo Bay (Score:2)
Don't forget that the only reason Japan could get away with this kind of behavior is because they have the big, bad US military standing behind them. If Japan had been standing alone for the past 57 years, a few hundred kilometers from China, North Korea, and the USSR, restricting their military's power would have been a serious career-limiting move fo
Re:Guantanamo Bay (Score:2)
Uh, Japan's military spending is the fifth highest in the world. They take national defence very seriously, and they do not rely solely on
Re:Translation (Score:2)
Because the danger of journalists even if only by photographing things from outside is much higher than the prisoners braking out.
Re:Translation (Score:2)
Re:Translation (Score:3, Insightful)
Since it never (formally) started, I guess we're in for a bit of a wait.
and according to the laws of war rules and laws are not applicable on illegal combatants;
Nope. Looks like you're repeating an invention of Donald Rumsfeld.
Laws of war cover combatants. The idea of an "illegal combatant" was only recently invented by the US. There is no such distinction in any Geneva or similar conventions.
Re:Translation (Score:2)
They are apparently using the phrase "illegal combatants" (and I doubt they said it in English) as a synonym for "violent criminal". Bandits are criminals, and must be turned over to civilian law-enforcement as soon as possible. However, nobody who defends his home town against a surprise aerial bombardment can be called a bandit.
The prisoners in Guantamo are either POWs or kidnap victims, depending on whether the US agrees to label them "combatants" u
Not really... (Score:5, Informative)
I, too, served in the Swedish army, and you are both right and wrong...
There exists a distinction between combatants and "bandits". But bandits (or illegal combatants) are criminals, and treated as such.
They are not stuck in a legal limbo, that is what Ashcroft invented.
Simply put, they are either combatants and criminals, there are rules for dealing with both.
Ashcroft just doesn't feel like following the rules, so he makes up an exception...
Re:Translation (Score:3, Informative)
And no, there isn't such a thing as an illegal combatant, at least not according to
Re:Translation (Score:3, Informative)
1. There is no such thing as an "illegal combatant", Rumsfeld made that one up as he went along.
2. We don't even know if these detainees were involved in any kind of battle or just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. That a large bunch of them are apparently being readie
Re:Translation (Score:2)
There is nothing wrong with pointing out the wrongs of every government, but this type of relativism serves only to belittle the struggle against regimes that are far worse.
Re:Translation (Score:2)
Just [slashdot.org] a few [slashdot.org] pointers [slashdot.org] to [slashdot.org] more [slashdot.org] info [slashdot.org].
So what's the practical difference between being detained for being in the wrong place at the wrong time and saying the wrong thing in the wrong place? Not much, methinks...
hmmm... (Score:2, Interesting)
Just like the Guantanamo Bay prisoners?
Re:hmmm... (Score:2)
I don't believe you're perceiving the subtle differences between getting picked up in the middle of a warzone as an active combatant and being whisked out of your bed in the middle of the night for speaking your mind.
This is not to say Guantanamo Bay is right, but it's not like the people there are interred because they were engaging in a bit of selfless and peaceful written protest against a tyrannical government and their name just happened to get drawn out of a ha
Re:hmmm... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:hmmm... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why are so many Americans in prison, under third world medical conditions [wrongfulde...titute.com]? The war on drugs, primarily, but also idiotic minimum sentencing laws. Where China executes people as a "deterrence", the US lock them up for decades for the same reason, while still retaining a provably flawed capital punishment system. And, by the way, according to Amnesty International [amnesty.org]:
There are many other very serious social issues in the US (insufficient health care, police brutality, religious fundamentalism, sexual hysteria ..), and just waving the finger at China and shouting "Woo, we're so great" is not going to cut it. The US needs to get serious about cleaning up at home before trying to impose itself as the world police elsewhere. Getting rid of your idiot president would be a good start.
Re:hmmm... (Score:2)
I think that sounds easier than it is.
http://diebold.com/ [diebold.com]
If the same things that happened in Florida happen again, nobody will ever know because there is no paper trail anymore, so there won't even be any need to stop the recount.
I personally think that Bush will lose the polls but win the elections...
United States has the highest prison population. (Score:2)
From the PDF file referenced in the parent post, the World Prison Population List [homeoffice.gov.uk]:
"The United States has the highest prison population rate in the world, some 686 per 100,000 of the national population,
In the U.S., the anger level is such that there is strong support for keeping people in small cages, at great taxpayer expense, but little support for fixing social problems.
From the parent post: "Getting rid of your idiot president would be a good start."
As others have said, at least t
This would be good..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Notice she was not found "innocent" (Score:3, Informative)
"Liu was bailed out on Friday afternoon, the centre said, saying the move amounted to freeing her because political detainees are rarely, if ever, released on bail."
While China does not typically release political detainees, they are only releasing her on bail. They could still pick her up for the same thing some time later, or decide to officially charge her. It is also important to note that they convicted one of the 4 involved. This situation is far from being over.
Re:Notice she was not found "innocent" (Score:2, Informative)
On the other hand, George W(armonger) Bush has consistently rewarded China for their atrocities by giving them ever more trade preferences. It is a shame that
Saddened,
A patriot against the Bush Junta
Both sides of the pond? (Score:5, Insightful)
These prisoners of the US Government were held for a year or more.
Let's clean up our own act before we get all high and mighty about the Chinese, heh?
Re:Both sides of the pond? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Both sides of the pond? (Score:2)
I cannot think of anything more relevant!
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Both sides of the pond? (Score:2)
Spare me. The US hasn't murdered an estimated 56 MILLION [academia.org] of its own people simply for disagreeing with state ideaology. The entire Communist movement, including Cuba, N.Korea, and Vietnam has murdered OVER 100 MILLION people. Don't even try to give us a guilt trip by comparing America with Co
Chinese government officials have sex with mules! (Score:2, Funny)
perspective (Score:2)
Ooh, aren't they nice? (Score:2, Insightful)
Stories like this one make me thankful and fearful (Score:4, Insightful)
If things keep going like this then America is doomed to die from collapse from within. Unfortunately for all our "friends" in other places who would like to see that happen, America's collapse will likely pull them in with it, or at least place them upon the very precipice of collapse just like the collapse of Rome sent all of Western Europe into the dark ages, only this time on a global scale.
Lee
Re:Stories like this one make me thankful and fear (Score:2)
You have a point. However, Americans seem to vote for people not based upon issues at all (whether you like or not), and perhaps you could do better with someone who can provide the intangibles that win elections as well as the sound fundamentals you mention.
Being a Californian, I have seen one of these intangibles in play: Hope. Confidence, a promise of happiness, b
Re:Stories like this one make me thankful and fear (Score:3, Insightful)
Before criticizing others for not understanding the issues, you
other points of view (Score:5, Interesting)
As the article and summary both mention, the release comes a week before the Premiere's visit to the US. An article [spiegel.de] in Der Spiegel claims, however, that the release was primarily motivated by the visit of German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder.
An AP version [sfgate.com] of the story mentions Schroeders visit (which the Reuters story linked to by the summary does not), but does not go as far as claiming as Der Spiegel does that "[the release] is a gift for Schroeder" (my translation). That particular quote is attributed to Frank Lu of the Information Center for Democracy and Human Rights, a Hong Kong-based watchdog group that is a primary source for both the AP and Spiegel articles.
China vs,. US (Score:5, Interesting)
- the US
- is never right about anything it does,
- Europe calls it a "crime against humanity" when the US executes 71 people in 2002
- groups like our faithful slashdot posters and Amnesty International constantly bitch and whine about how evil the US is, and
- basically ALL the problems of the world are America's fault
and,- China (in recent times)
- builds the great firewall of China,
- suppresses free speech,
- executes 1,000+ people in 2002 (over 14x the US total)
- conquers countries and actually FORMALLY integrates them into China,
- moves people in forced migrations, and
- commits various other human right abuses,
and the our "right-thinking left-wing friends" never say shit about it?I realize anti-Americanism is popular, but ...
Re:China vs,. US (Score:2)
Re:China vs,. US (Score:2)
Re:China vs,. US (Score:2)
"Jesus said: "The mote that is in the eye of your brother you see; but the beam that is in your own eye, you see not!""
You may also be forgetting the hundreds of millions of dollars that went towards the Free Tibet campaign,
Re:China vs,. US (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:China vs,. US (Score:2, Insightful)
* the US is never right about anything it does,"
* Europe calls it a "crime against humanity" when the US executes 71 people in 2002
* groups like our faithful slashdot posters and Amnesty International constantly bitch and whine about how evil the US is, and
* basically ALL the problems of the world are America's fault"
Yeah, whine, whine, whine. Basically, a lot of people in the world who used to admire USA are getting more and more disappointed. America is gett
Re:China vs,. US (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, we do. A lot. It just never gets to the news. I'm too young, but my parents have spoken up on every conflict there was.
In the case of Iraq, Amnesty International had a huge body of knowledge about the atrocities committed by Saddam.
Unfortunately, when Ronald Reagan decided Saddam was the good guy, and sent Donald Rumsfeld to shake hands with him [gwu.edu], it gets really, really hard to say otherwise. Furthermore, when Saddam gassed the Kurds at Halabja, the Reagan administration blamed Iran, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and voted down every [casi.org.uk] condemnation of Iraq, but inside and outside the US.
OK, but that's history. How about today? Now that Saddam's gone, there are other dictators that should follow. For example Islam Karimov of Uzbekistan. The democratic opposition had great hopes when America entered Central Asia. Unfortunately, you let them down. Islam Karimov is now one of the cherished allies [google.com] in the "coalition". With US support, he has semented his power. Perhaps it is not too much to ask that you at least stop supporting the worst dictators on the planet, and let the people have a chance to get rid of them themselves?
Uhm, no, you missed the point. It's not anti-americanism to tell America it's wrong. OK, you can find anti-americanism, and it is a fair amount of around, on the form: "America is headed for the quagmire (hehe)". But it is not anti-americanism to say that "America is headed for the quagmire, and we have to work with america to change its course". The latter is far more common than the former.
The difference between America and China is that America is a democracy and it has a free press. Those two things should make it possible to get through to America far more easily than to China. So, the reason why America is addressed is that there are certain values it tends to uphold. That's not anti-americanism, to the contrary, it is recognition. But it also demands of you that you realize that your current President is wiping his ass with your constitution, and that you get rid of him. Nobody else can do that but you.
You don't have to look at China... (Score:5, Interesting)
When people came to protest at the jail, the police simply proceeded to arrest the protestors again to get them out of the way.
If you want an example of a "police state" just look at the USA right now, you don't need to look as far as China.
more arrests and jail info at
http://www.ftaaimc.org/ [ftaaimc.org] and http://www.stopftaa.org [stopftaa.org]
One big giant difference (Score:2)
The person in China has no such laws to fall back on. As far as China is concerned she was 100% legally arrested.
Guatanamo holds FOREIGN prisoners. Not citizens. I can register www.fuckbush.com and unless I encourage violence against
Re:You don't have to look at China... (Score:2)
What are you doing about it? Apparently posting websites isn't fixing the problem.
Let's do something. Give me your idea.
Roadmap (Score:2)
Regards,
Jdif
Something to think about (Score:3, Interesting)
Why is that? Well, reasons depend on the country, I guess. Lenin was one such dissident in 1900's, and see what he did when he got the power... examples are plentiful. Today ex-dissidents in Russia are accused of treason, of selling out, of helping to steal national wealth...
This is not unique to Russia in any way. Look at Georgia, for example. They got Gamsakhurdia - and he failed miserably. They replaced him with Shevardnadze - and guess what, he failed miserably. They replaced him with ${don't know yet} and he will fail, probably. Same happened in Poland, same happened in Yugoslavia, same happens everywhere. This is because being a dissident does not really mean that you think better than other people; it only means that you think differently.
The point is, not all dissidents are "freedom fighters", and not all countries need, or want, the freedom, and not all societies can take the cold shower of total, uncontrollable, unrestricted freedom (North Korea is one.) I don't know much about this guy, he may be great. I just want to show you the larger picture (which was painted without my involvement, BTW, I am only an observer here).
Of course it is bad to jail dissidents just because they are thinking differently and talking about something. If your political system can't prove its benefits in an open discussion, then probably the system does not deserve to exist.
There is a catch, however, and the catch is called "populism". Basically, unwashed masses are told fairy tales, promised infinite wealth in no time, as long as they vote in a certain way or behave in a certain way (such as siege of Presidential Palace demanding resignation of the President). If a society is well controlled and sufficiently dumb, then this works. It worked before many times. This is exactly the reason why democracy fails in many countries - because the people of the country must be smart and active to vote right. This is often not the case, and quite possibly China is afraid that sweet talk of dissidents promoting ${some_other_system} can cause severe disturbance, maybe even a civil war. This is something worth avoiding, maybe even by jailing one person. Basically, the question is this: "How many people you are willing to kill to save 1 million people?" Dostoevsky gave a lot of thought to this dilemma, see his "Demons" and "Crime and Punishment" for details. And of course "Ringworld Engineers" touches this subject too.
Re:Something to think about (Score:2)
Very likely, but it assumes that one places stability above some degree of self rule. It also assumes that there can only be change though violent conflict, and unfortunately I think this is a given in China. Georgia just had a "velvet revolution" - a non violent coup. I doubt the same could happen in China, not just because of the people or the numbers involved, but because the government would roll out the tanks and start it up themselves. There's no respect for the will of the people, only expectation th
3 Released, but 1 convicted (Score:3, Informative)
"The same day, a court convicted a fourth writer charged in the case, Jiang Lijun, of subversion and sentenced him to four years in prison, his lawyer said."
Re:Serious (Score:2)