MPAA, RIAA Seek Permanent Antitrust Exemption 759
Devistater writes "Webcasters sued RIAA two months ago in an antitrust case for anti-competitive behavior. The response? An exemption from antitrust laws. Today's Register tells about RIAA/MPAA's efforts to get just such an exemption written into law. They could become permanently exempt from such a suit, if the bill passes. They snuck it into a bill sponsored by Orrin Hatch called EnFORCE Act (Enhancing Federal Obscenity Reporting and Copyright Enforcement Act of 2003). Orrin Hatch says this bill contains "First... an antitrust exemption in the Copyright Act [for] record companies and music publishers" Why? Because of 'market realities.' Which ones? The 12-year-old girl? The 15-year-old girl? Or the 66-year-old Grandma with a Mac?"
'market realities' (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder whether Mr. Hatch ever paused to consider that porn is a market reality as well...
Re:'market realities' (Score:5, Insightful)
Recently EMI wanted to buy the music division of Time Warner and Sony and Bertelsman also want to do a large merger. This could be stopped in USA or Europe by monopoly laws ,[legitimate] fear of even more anticompetitive behaviour and anti-trust laws.
But if they proactivly construct laws that can exempt them from lawsuits the mergers could get through easier and with less complications later.
Even after Bronfman bought the TW music division they are planning on mergers to squeeze out a couple of hundred million dollars in "long term" (two year) cost savings.
So expect to se RIAA release a couple of dubious reports that "proves" that "piracy" is hurting their business.
It's sad to see how easily some US politicians are bribed.
Re:'market realities' (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, of course this is just another industry-crafted bill that will work its way through the process just like so many others these days. Fall in, RIAA/MPAA, alongside the domestic steel companies, big agri-business, and textile companies while you all leech off the public teat...
Re:'market realities' (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do we even listen to the RIAA and MPAA? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's time to forget them. They are the past. The genie is out of the bottle, and they can't ever put it back in. It's time to look for a new business model I'm afraid. They want to only hold on to what they had and not pursue what is the future.
Remember, they only have power because everyone believes they have power. They were not voted on, we didn't elect them. The President didn't appoint them.
Re:Why do we even listen to the RIAA and MPAA? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Interesting)
Why should I feel guilty for double-clicking on an icon, and then listening to a song? The idea that I have to pay someone to listen to music is a relatively new concept. I don't feel guilty in the least. The music industry, in addition to suing its customers is now trying to enact legislation that will exempt it from laws put in place to protect consumers.
It is manufacturing new crimes, and prosecuting 12-year-old children.
The music industry is evil, pure and simple, and I don't feel bad when I "steal" (not even the correct term) from evil. Getting my money is not some sort of god-given right. It has to be earned, and the music industry is not earning it. Humanity got along fine for thousands of years without them, and will do so again.
"Do you expect them to go through all tens of thousands of people?"
If they expect to collect money from them, and not create another PR disaster, yes. I can garauntee they will this time.
Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)
So often these days, corporate profits go down, and some Congressman thinks, oh, they're losing money -- someone must be breaking the law! Uh, no. Maybe if the music industry had a product worth paying for, people would buy it. (You know, that whole "capitalism" thing...)
Re:*sigh* (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)
There's so many ways that the RIAA could shift its business model to make a killing off of file sharing, and they have instead chosen to not move with the times. They deserve what all organizations deserve that fall behind the times: bankruptcy.
Re:*sigh* (Score:4, Insightful)
One of the things that peeved me about a company I worked for was a reduction in employee benefits. The company was in a tighter position than usual, but they were still profitable. They announced the reduction of benefits and payscale freezes because they wanted to show "higher profits" on the books, to enhance share value. Now, 2 years later, the company isn't quite at what they were in the late 90s during the tech boom (who is?), but they are still making a great deal of money and.. they have not restored the employee benefits they "took away". It's not that the employee has a "right" to those benefits, mind you, but it's really shitty for a company to use a declining economy to reduce employee benefits, and then when it's recovered to fails to reinstitute those benefits. It's basically that scenario that reinforced my recently discovered cynicism regarding employment: Fuck them before they fuck me. But that's another topic..
Re:*sigh* (Score:3, Insightful)
I cant count the number of companies in this country that are mired in mediocrity because they insist on
Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, they do have a product worth paying for. Just not worth paying what they want to charge.
Even at used-CD prices ($10/CD), music is way more expensive than video.
I just bought a season of babylon 5 (brand new, shipped, from Amazon) for $55. That's over 15 hours of video, on a half-dozen DVDs. I couldn't get that much music for that price. I couldn't even get that many CDs for that price.
The extended edition LotR:TTT is about $30 shipped or local. That's almost 4 hours of video for the main movie, plus hours and hours of bonus footage, for less than the price of the movie's worth of music.
I challenge anyone to come up with a valid reason why audio CDs cost so much more than video DVDs. So either DVDs are horribly underpriced (and I don't see movie studios going out of business right and left here), or CDs are horribly overpriced. The value/price of a CD is miniscule these days - it's amazing the recording industry is doing as well as they are.
Re:*sigh* (Score:3, Insightful)
DVDs are a great deal. You get a lot of entertainment for not a whole lot of money. CDs are an awful deal. Why do the record companies pretend this is not the case?
Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)
No, they latch on to the young and old targets because:
- They're good emotional jumping off points.
- Who the fuck in their right mind expects a 12 year old to understand copyright law when most well-educated adults don't?
- TV = Free imperfect music w/ ads. Radio = free imperfect music w/ ads. Computer =
.... not free imperfect music w/ ads? Huh?
- People are being threatened with lawsuits for the whole purpose of extorting "small" cash "settlements" out of them before they get a chance to defend themselves. Not that they could afford to if they tried.
Besides - bear in mind that the issue at hand right now is the fact that effective monopolies (just like Verizon - yea, they HAVE competition, but go try and find it in any significant way) are trying to become immune to laws that govern that govern the United States. You have a piracy problem? Too fucking bad. Like it or not, black markets are 'market realities' that reflect problems in the product being "pirated". Fix your distribution chain and make the product more attractive to buyers so they don't go to the black market.Yea yea, yap yap - the law says this, the law says that. The law in Kentucky says you can't fish in the Ohio river without an Indiana fishing license. Doesn't mean it's a good law or that anyone with half a brain should pay it any mind. Laws are meant to protect CITIZENS not CORPORATIONS that have, on more than one occasion, proven that THEY have as little disregard for the law as everyone they're yelling at (can we say... "price-fixing").
I hate to be the one to provide the rude wake-up call, but the RIAA, the MPAA, the BSA - they aren't interested in protecting SHIT. There's no money to be made in protecting business interests. There IS money to be made in holding illegitimate customers upside down and shaking them and then trying to turn EVERYONE into an illegitimate customer SOMEHOW.
Frankly - the law can suck my nuts in this matter. When they stop threatening to hand out low-price laws on Capitol Hill to these nutjobs and hold them to the same standards as everyone else, I'll give the law the respect it deserves. I don't expect that to happen anytime soon, though.
And look at that, while I was typing some other mod abused their power by modding the parent a Troll solely because they don't agree with the subject matter. I love Slashdot... I think Slashdot needs to run a censorship article on some of these idiots that get mod points sometime.
Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Informative)
Ah! but you have to understand that, according to the law (for example: Louisville R. R. v. Letson -- 1844), a corporation IS a citizen! The railroads lobbied for and got this judgement passed back in the 1800s and corporations have run completely amok since then.
Re:*sigh* (Score:3, Insightful)
Then I vote that we hold them accountable just as you would citizens.
If you, an individual, steal from people, you are removed from society temporarily - you go to jail. Corporations that steal from their employees, customers, shareholders, or
Re:*sigh* (Score:3, Insightful)
Hardly. In the case of music, this "black market" as you call it, reflects, more than anything else, an undeniable disregard for the property rights of others, as well as out-and-out laziness on the part of consumers. If you want it to change, MAKE it change. There are perfectly legitimate ways to do this that are perfectly legal. Oh....but they require some
Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't get why people think this. I haven't yet seen any Slashdot articles advocating piracy and only a small handful of comments that actual advocate it.
What you seem unable to differentiate is the advocation of piracy and the contempt people have for:
tactics used by the RIAA & MPAA to "enforce" their copyrights,
publicized lies, propaganda, and assumptions by the RIAA & MPAA claiming harm from P2P infringements WITHOUT EVIDENCE,
modification of laws by the RIAA/MPAA to remove rights or benefits from consumers/citizens (as in this article),
proposed tactics/laws for acting against P2P (such as destroying the contents of a computer they "find" in violation -- without trial or judicial oversight),
attacks on P2P to make them illegal or shut them down even though they have legitimate legal uses,
hypocrisy of arguing that P2P has no legally legitimate uses and then using P2P to (a) send messages to users and (b) purchasing the download statistics to rate songs for improved marketing,
issuing of supoenas without judicial oversight
attempts to enforce an ancient business model that has little relevence in the modern world,
copyright laws that violate the principle in which they were created (i.e.,limited exclusive right of creators followed by public domain to promote progress, not perpetual exclusive right which hinders progress).
There are possibly other complaints too, these are just off the top of my head. As you see from this list, it's not just a "I want free music" tirade. There are tons of legitimate complaints about copyrights and the RIAA & MPAA.
Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)
Ummm... yes, I do expect people to make sure they have the right person before they sue. Maybe I'm old-fashioned that way.
Here's what's cute to me: if I rip and encode a cd and give you the resulting mp3s, that's illegal. But, if I rip and encode a cd, keep the mp3s and give or sell you the CD, that's legal. Something is wrong there.
Record distributers do not have a "right" to make money by distributing music, though they have a right to try. Musicians do not have a "right" to make money recording and performing music, though they have a right to try.
I'll be perfectly honest that I support "pirating" music (though I've never done it) because *anything* that makes big record studios lose money is GOOD. They have been nothing but a negative force in music since the 1930's.
We no longer need centralized A&R, production, or distribution. EVERY SINGLE THING a record studio does can be done more efficiently with commodity hardware, software, and communications. Anything that moves us closer to cutting out unneccessary middlemen, even if it tramples on the imagined "rights" of music rentiers, is good.
Bullshit. (Score:5, Insightful)
The RIAA has no right to act as enforcers of laws. That's what the police and the courts are for. Unlike the RIAA, these bodies are subject to checks and balances, not only from other branches of government, but from the citizens of the United States.
The RIAA has no right to be exempt from antitrust laws. They have no right to be exempt from any law, for that matter.
The RIAA has no right to expect twenty dollars from me every time they release a new album. I don't want it; I won't buy it, I won't steal it. They can't get people to hand over their money voluntarily anymore, so now they want to legislate it out of them.
The RIAA is within their legal right to protect their copyrighted works, but this goes far, far beyond that. How far do they have to go before people see that this isn't about piracy, or theft, or any of the terms the RIAA uses to distract us while they buy our freedom out from under us? How much of the government do they have to own before people stop calling me a hippie and a thief for standing up for my right not to give these assholes any money? What's next, a monthly bill for everyone in the country, whether or not they listened to any music?
I don't advocate music piracy. What I advocate is my government protecting *my* rights, not the rights of corporations. Look at that Constitution. It says "We the People", not "We the Shareholders". As long as we keep on saying "STFU pirate" and ignoring the real issues, they'll keep on taking our country from us, one purchased bill at a time.
I am a citizen, not a consumer.
I am a human being, not a revenue source.
I, for one, reject our new overlords.
Re:*sigh* (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes. Absolutely. It is THEIR responsibility. Period.
Filing baseless lawsuits is very much illegal. That cases *continue* to crop up where they're suing people who have nothing to do with piracy pretty much proves A)that they are NOT fulfilling their legal obligations to investigate the cases before launching, and B)that apparently they don't really care.
There is a word for what they're doing, and it is "barratry." A barratry suit hasn't been brought in a long time, but they are quickly proving themselves to be a perfect target of one. The *first* time it was conclusively shown that they had targetted an innocent party, it became their legal responsibility to overhaul their method of detecting pirates. Which they, from all evidence, have not done.
They may be within their legal right to protect their copyrights, but they are *NOT* in their legal right to harass and\or blackmail innocent citizens with threats of legal action, because they cannot be bothered to actually investigate the lawsuits they're filing. And if they are unable to investigate their cases prior to suing, then too bad for them - the rights of the citizenry to not be blackmailed by overeager corporations outweighs the RIAA's right to a slightly higher profit margin. Period.
Inquiring minds want to know... (Score:2, Interesting)
Must be nice having a senator in your pocket....
Re:Inquiring minds want to know... (Score:5, Informative)
1997-1998 PAC Contributions [opensecrets.org]
1999-2000 PAC Contributions [opensecrets.org]
2003-2004 PAC Contributions [opensecrets.org]
Important to note:
1. there's no data available for 2001-2002 Cycle
2. The 2003-2004 is a running total
Re:Inquiring minds want to know... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Inquiring minds want to know... (Score:4, Funny)
Campaign Finance Reform = Cheap Influence (Score:4, Insightful)
Our difficulty stems from how we defined the problem. We tend to think of the problem as being "Money in elections." It is not. Attempts to simply limit fundraising are not going to fix the system.
By limiting the supply of money in elections, we ensure that it becomes a critical resource. The marginal value of the next dollar is higher, and the marginal cost (to the politician) of obtaining it is higher. The politician must make each donor's contribution go farther, and on the other side of the equation the donors are assured that even modest contributions will have a large impact on the candidate's behavior.
In short, the system of making it harder for candidates to raise money virtually ensures that political influence will be cheap to buy.
Of course, simply having politicians become more expensive to buy is not really any better. If anything, it would be great if I could buy an hour of my congressman's time for the price of a latte. In a sense, democracy would be restored. Unfortunately, it would be impossible to drive the price low enough that an ordinary citizen could "buy access".
What really needs to be extirpated is not money in elections, but the influence of people with money.
This can be done in two broad ways:
(1) Ban fundraising altogether.
(2) Limit the utility of raised money.
Naturally, banning fundraising would take a constitutional amendment, so its best to focus on limiting the utility of raised momey.
One way to limit the utility of raised money is to impose spending limits. This has two problems. The first is consitutional, of course. The second is that influence will be bought through soft money and "advocacy". Regulating advocacy in particular would require vigorous and unacceptable limitations on free speech.
The best way to limit the utility of money is for the public to make up the difference between the best funded candidates and the least funded ones that meet some minimal criteria of electability (e.g. signatures from a fixed percentage of the electorate stipulating they wish this candidate to receive public funding). This means as a candidate, I can gain no competitive advantage through fundraising. The costs in this scenario tend to be self limiting, since time spent by a candidate in raising funds actually puts him at a disadvantage. The candidate bears the costs of raising money in time spent away from campaigning. In the current system costs to the public are not limited, since the candidate can pay off his contributors with somebody else's money (the taxpayers).
Re:Inquiring minds want to know... (Score:5, Informative)
Viacom and GE have given him over $14,000 each.
we need a lobbying group! (Score:4, Insightful)
If enough people who cared about these issues could get organized and donate $5-$20 to an election campaign, it'd be possible to outbid the RIAA. There's a lot more little guys out there then there are people in the RIAA's pocket. Again, you'd have to find the right politicians (certainly not Hatch) but it is possible. What the anti-RIAA/MPAA movement needs is a lobbying group!!
Re:Inquiring minds want to know... (Score:5, Informative)
Top 20 Senators
Rank 6 - Hatch, Orrin G (R-UT) $404,388
Source [opensecrets.org]
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
How about political realitites? (Score:5, Informative)
Look at the success of Patriot Act II, just attach it to a spending bill and it passes while we were all sleeping. [wired.com] No debate, no nothing. The RIAA knows this is a good thing, for them.
Whatever your political persuasion, its fairly obvious that legislative reform should have happened a long time ago and the current congress and executive branch are pulling every dirty trick they can.
Greg Palast chronicles a lot of the abuses we don't hear about in his book The Best Democracy Money can Buy. [gregpalast.com] Worth checking out if you want to know how stuff like this happens and why non-monied interests have little say in the affairs of government.
only Republicans believe that: (Score:4, Insightful)
o The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.
o Government should relax regulation of Big Business and Big Money but crack down on individuals who use marijuana to relieve the pain of illness.
o "Standing Tall for America" means firing your workers and moving their jobs to India.
o A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.
o Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.
o The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.
o Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins unless you someday run for governor of California as a Republican.
o If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.
o A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, then demand their cooperation and money.
o HMOs and insurance companies have the interest of the public at heart.
o Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism.
o Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.
o Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.
o A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.
o Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.
o The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.
o You support states' rights, which means Attorney General John Ashcroft can tell states what local voter initiatives they have a right to adopt.
o What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the '80s is irrelevant.
o Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.
Bush appears to have a figurehead mentality (Score:5, Insightful)
Vietnam and China, however, don't have such controversial leaders. Jiang Zemin has few blemishes on his record, and therefore China has few blemishes on it's record (despite having human rights violations codified into law). And who knows who Tran Du Luong is or what he has done? Obviously they can't be put onto the axis of evil, because they aren't lead by a James Bond supervillian.
I think few people in this country reacted when George Bush gave his "axis of evil" speech because it was so patently ridiculous to point at three countries with improving diplomatic relations and call them the devil. When Bush gave his "you're either with us or against us" line, people seemed to accept it as a liberally used figure of speech. Now that Bush is claiming that the people who wanted a UN resolution before declaring war in Iraq were supporting Osama Bin Laden, it has become clear that this is actually how the man thinks.
Bush believes himself to be good, therefore everything he does is good and above questioning. Clinton did bad things and therefore is bad, therefore everything he did should be overturned and turned over to the press. Ashcroft is a good man, acting in what he believes to be the public's best interest. Therefore whatever Ashcroft does is in the public's best interest. This logic is, of course, flawed. I'm sure Ashcroft believes he is acting in the public's best interests, but his viewpoint of the world is greatly skewed by the line of work he is in.
In a way it is an extension of the monarchy. Bush has actually said on occasion that he has been chosen by God to rule. Once again, this was taken to be the liberal sprinkling of praise for God that peppers oscar acceptance speeches and winning locker rooms. But in light of actions, it is becoming apparent that the man truly believes he has a divine mandate to rule... That god works through him and therefore he is above reproach. As his decisions are perfect, so too must be the decisions of those people whom he chooses, and such the divine mandate trickles to his staff and people.
This is not just a crackpot theory on how the president thinks. This is a theory based upon how the president himself claims that he thinks. Honestly, I would be surprised if he found any problem with either the accuracy of the theory or the morality behind the thought pattern.
Re:only Republicans believe that: (Score:3, Insightful)
Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.
Under Clinton/Gore/Reno, the prison population of the United States DOUBLED, primarily due to nonviolent drug offenders.
Government should relax regulation of Big Business and Big Money but crack down on individuals who use marijuana to relieve the pain of illness.
In 1996, California legalized medical marijuana. That didn't st
Re:only Republicans believe that: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:only Republicans believe that: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm Canadian. And as an outsider, it doesn't matter. Republicans and Democrats are so slightly different. As far as i'm concerned, this is a comment on how the entire Country seems to behave, not just a particular political party. The country is moving togther, probably most citizens are aimless, but you cannot divide this into party politics. You know how every outsiders says they can't te
Oh great... (Score:5, Interesting)
I have faith that SOMEONE in the government will see the absurdity of this request and will stop it before it gets too far.
Re:Oh great... (Score:3, Insightful)
The sad part is, I don't even have that anymore. I, for one, welcome our new RIAA overlords.
Re:Oh great... (Score:5, Interesting)
The theory goes that for them to be effective they must appear to represent the majority of labels. The reality is that they represent the major labels and their affiliates. The quicker the truth comes out the less power they will have.
Re:Oh great... (Score:5, Interesting)
I would be happy to contribute to such an organization, and I am sure they would get a lot of support from Slashdot.
Old senators never die... well, almost (Score:3, Funny)
That's what we'd been saying about Strom Thurmond for the last fifty years.
Re:Old senators never die... well, almost (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Oh great... (Score:5, Insightful)
Support freedom of music people. Only support bands that allow the free copying, distribution, and listening of their music in any format you choose.
It's the public that supports the RIAA by purchasing their merchandise. DO NOT DO IT.
Sharing the Groove [sharingthegroove.com] and FurthurNET [furthurnet.com]
Re:Oh great... (Score:5, Insightful)
Support freedom of music people.
It's even more important than freedom of music. It's our freedom of culture that's at stake. Our true culture has been stolen from us and replaced with manufactured culture. By monopolizing our culture they're taking away who we are and replacing it with a world of culturally ignorant "consumers". It's good for their profit but absolutely horrendous for our heritage, our freedom, our inspiration, our creativity, and our happiness. It's short term thinking that is rotting society from the inside.
Re:Oh great... (Score:3, Interesting)
I Agree. When someone can control the songs your kids can sing around the campfire, or demand payment for singing Happy Birthday without being laughed into silence then things are seriously screwed up.
Our true culture has been stolen from us and replaced with manufactured culture.
Have to disagree there. Culture has always been a combination of grass-roots folk tradition and manufactured content. Great works of
Re:Oh great... (Score:5, Insightful)
Great works of classical music, drama, and literature were written, ultimately, to make money...
No, the ones you eventually heard may have been created that way, but the ones that moved the people and created the culture that those works grew out of were created from the heart and the soul. A lot of them are lost to history. No record was made of them because no money was involved and recording them on paper and maintaining the record were, historically, things only the rich had the power to do. Cave men, sitting around the fire, singing and banging on hand-made instruments didn't do it for the money. They did it to create and maintain their culture. It's the human spirit that motivates these things, not money.
A rare and significant example of the real tide of culture was recorded by John Lomax [loc.gov] who traveled the country, funded by the Smithsonian (thank you government) to record musicians where they lived. That's real stuff, not manufactured pablum and it would have been lost to history had he not been there to record it. In fact, there was a man born in Tupelo, Mississippi with a certain swivel in his hip and a voice that made women swoon. But that man never made a nickel because he was black. Then a couple of years later, Elvis came along and the rest is history. Record makers believed they couldn't make money on black artists so they picked white ones who emulated their black peers.
Britney Spears isn't popular because her music is culturally significant. She's popular because she's the tip of huge marketing machine. It just sounds like the ka-ching of a cash register to me or the beep of a truck backing up -- just the sound of money being made. The real culture is hidden and if anyone is guilty of myopia, it the person who can only see and hear what our corporate media presents to them. You are being manipulated and controlled so that someone else can make a buck. Some real artists can still be heard, though. Check out Mountain Stage [mountainstage.org].
This is just the first step (Score:5, Interesting)
And this eventually leads to you not being allowed to play your own music without paying RIAA, since they own the copyright...
Oh, and whistling is also music, so any whistler is liable for up to 5 years of prison and $25000000 fine if caught in the act without proper RIAA license...
I am ashamed (Score:5, Interesting)
to have Orrin Hatch as my congressional representative. I have never voted for him and after several news stories like this will never vote for him in the future. When will the people of Utah wake up and see that he does our state no good and harms our nation as well. Anti-trust laws are there for a reason. To keep companies from running rampant and having ultimate power to do as they will without regard. Nice move Orrin how much money did you take to get this law written? I suggest everyone write a letter to Senator Hatch and tell him what you think of this law. Utahans especially but it helps if anyone sends a letter in.
*Ok rant's over, flame on!
We Should All Be Ashamed (Score:5, Insightful)
And well you should be. As an American, I am ashamed of virtually everyone congress and the presidency, and a number of Supreme Court justices. It is appalling how deep the rot is
When will the people of Utah wake up and see that he does our state no good and harms our nation as well. Anti-trust laws are there for a reason. To keep companies from running rampant and having ultimate power to do as they will without regard. Nice move Orrin how much money did you take to get this law written?
To answer your question, Orrin Hatch whored himself [opensecrets.org] out to the entertainment industry for $150,000 or so. Interestingly enough, he is brazen enough to take $100,000 from the computer industry at the same time (one wonders if that isn't Microsoft priming the pump for TCPA/DRM
Congressman Valar...nice ring... (Score:4, Insightful)
what market realities? (Score:5, Insightful)
How about we stop allowing them to pay off these lawmakers with huge donations (even through other channels) and they stop being able to throw their weight around.
Although I guess they could just ignore any findings of the government like someone else we know and go about their business as usual w/o fear.
Re:what market realities? (Score:3, Insightful)
The reality of the market is that the cost of entry into the music market is no longer very high. Any artist with a few thousand dollars can get his song or album recorded, and distributed through an Indie label (or distribute it himself). No longer do they have to borrow large amounts from big record companies who turn artists into indentured servants.
Another reality is that the cost to become a record label isn't that high anymore either. Many of the small distributors (like CD Ba
Scale (Score:3, Insightful)
The scale of the problem is completely lost on you. Who determines the constitutionality of a law? The courts. Who is packing the courts with corporate-friendly judges? The executive branch (with advice and consent of the Senate). Who is mounting massive campaign efforts to replace citizen-friendly Attorneys General with corporate-friendly ones? Corporations. Who is pushing so-called "tort reform" legislation through state and federal legislatures to protect corporations from responsibility for their crimes
Great...more power to the RIAA (Score:5, Interesting)
Great. This is what we need. More power to those who hold the purse strings. Give more power to big business and less to consumers.
The thing that concerns me is that the RIAA is trying to circumvent a diplomatic process. I always thought that, while not completely effective, challenging an organizations actions (even in court) kept what organizations do in check - that the could not overstep their boundries. Now, the RIAA is trying to be immune from it's actions, while suing consumers for their actions.
This could start a dangerous precident - allowing corporations immunity from their own actions. Hope SCO isn't watching.
Re:Great...more power to the RIAA (Score:5, Insightful)
Great. This is what we need. More power to those who hold the purse strings. Give more power to big business and less to consumers.
Stop thinking of yourself as a "consumer." That's exactly how they want you to see yourself. Start thinking of yourself as a citizen with all the power the constitution gives you. The consumer is at the bottom of a food chain. The citizen is at the top in a democracy.
Bah... (Score:5, Insightful)
Clearly the music and movie industries are larg amalgams esigned to stigle anything that resembles competition, is that the reality that they're talking about? The only reason a company would want an exemption from anti-trust laws would be if they were or were planning on becoming a monopoly, or if they are or plan on just raping those laws in the name of extreme profit. Those laws are in place to protect not only consumers but the economic and creative interests of the United States of America.
What a bunch of bums, really. I don't care if no one likes you. I don't care that your companies are losing money because people found out that they didn't have to pay $20 for a CD (they could pay like $10 with I-Tunes). Why should you be immune the the laws? I'm sorry Mr. Corporate Conspiracy Group, but the laws are there to apply to everyone equally, and no one should get exempted from them, this is what we call equality, if you don't like it, then you can stick it in some place and go move your companies out to Vantua with Sharman networks.
Re:Bah... (Score:3, Interesting)
Major league baseball is exempt from anti trust laws. So are many power companies (witness the fuss made over deregulation, deregulation from monopoly status)
I don't like this development any more than you do, but to carte blanche say that "monopolies" are ev
Re:Bah... (Score:3, Interesting)
"From the watch-people-blame-the-free-market dept."
I think the problem is that people use terms like "free-market" or "competition" as though they were magic spells that could solve all problems and have some mystical, sublime and transcedental meaning. Being for or against "free-markets" is totally irrelvant.
This a case of a logical problem created by the sloppy use of language
Ob South Park Reference (Score:5, Funny)
Orrin Hatch, he went to congress, DUM DUM DUM DUM DUM
</singing>
So far this week (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't our government supposed to behave near elections?
Re:So far this week (Score:3, Funny)
They are. Just watch what happens when elections are over.
Re:So far this week (Score:3, Insightful)
And so they should, given that MTBE was forced on the oil companies by the government and the 'watermelon' public interest groups in a misguided attempt to reduce air pollution.
If anyone should pay for cleaning up MTBE, it should be the EPA and the Sierra Club. I don't think the oil companies should pay one red cent.
-ccm
Just sheer disbelief (Score:2)
Wonder if this is how government has always behaved and now they're being found out more, or whether it's a particularly crap current bunch...
Simon
What the..? (Score:2)
What? This antitrust exemption seems like pure shit to me, but, last time I checked, 12 year-olds are not exempt from the law, nor 66-year olds (NOT that old). I don't understand why the RIAA suing young or old people is some sort of condemnation.
Public awareness is key here... (Score:5, Interesting)
Hatch is trying to pull this off at the same time Congress is debating whether the BCS violates antitrust laws. The NCAA [ncaa.org] doesn't have an antitrust exemption, and neither does the NFL. [nfl.com] To my knowledge, Major League Baseball [mlb.com] is the only group of that sort to have an antitrust exemption, and even that's come up for debate during all those strikes.
A simple public awareness campaign should put an end to the madness. In the context of other "market realities," it simply doesn't make sense. In fact, Congress has taken an active interest in limiting those other "market realities." Seriously, what's the difference between one group controlling all access to recorded music and one group controlling all access to pro football?
Baseball does not have an exemption. (Score:3, Informative)
The original judicial review of baseball's anti-competitive actions came in the Federal Baseball [ipwatchdog.com] case, where, and this is very important, the Court decided that Major League Basebal
Re:Public awareness is key here... (Score:3, Interesting)
Blame the Free Market? Yes, they will (Score:5, Insightful)
A classic argument for this is health care (in the US, sorry for you non-US folks). The argument goes as follows: Health care is expensive, due to those rich capitalist pigs raising the prices of drugs. This conjures the emotional response of jealousy, and subconscious imagery of sick people dying due to 'greedy' doctors. This argument neglects the reality that government monopoly money (in the form of Medicare/Medicaid) was been pouring into the medical establishment for 40 years. Given a customer with infinite cash, any business will jack up its prices to infinite levels.
Returning to the music argument, the industry has so manipulated the legislation that it is far from a free market (DVD encoding, DMCA, even region-encoded discs) that they can no longer claim the same right to protection under traditional law. It was only a matter of time, inevitable, that they would require blatant exemption and special treatment.
Another Market Reality (Score:5, Insightful)
While at the core their arguements against piracy are valid, unfortunately the reason it is so bad for them is because of the "market-plan" they have set for themselves, which isn't an option anymore, people know what CD's actually cost, people know that the artists see pennies on the dollar, people don't want to line **AA's pockets with their cash anymore ....so if **AA's profits are down, you're cutting into their "lifestyle" so whats another way to produce revenue? Lawsuits settlements!
They're saying ,one way or another, they will get your money from you whether you like it or not. Time for them to re-assess their plans.
Record companies and music publishers? (Score:3, Insightful)
Thanks Orin. I feel so much better now.
Please keep children and grandmother's out of it. (Score:5, Insightful)
I am as much against the RIAA as anyone, and have been a victim of their tactics (in 1998/99 I was threatened with a suit via my school over an ftp site, ended up being protected by my school, but got slapped w/ loss of network access and academic probation for a year). But come on now guys, these quotes are the same type of crap pulled to get these laws in place 'for the children.' (Ok this doesnt apply really to the DMCA, but it doesnt change the central point). What is worse, is that we are now throwing grandmother's in the picture. It is equally heinous to sue your customers regardless of age, or maternal status. Can we please try to keep the loaded language to the mass media and off of slashdot? If not, might as well do some digging around, im sure one of them has or had cancer, perhaps is HIV positive.
Come on guys, lets keep the standards high, and use solid arguments in place of trying to sling mud at the RIAA.
class system (Score:4, Insightful)
Anti-trust law has been entirely shirked during this administration. In the last, the DMCA was brought into law. It seems to me that the divide between Democrats and Republicans is simply a minor power-struggle in the top class.
Every new politician who might care is used as a pawn, and they will either have to sell out their people to become part of the upper class, or get ousted from the political machine.
Then there is the push by the top powers in the world for "free trade" that is starting to look to me to be anything but.
But here's the real kicker. There is not really any group or persons who controls this political machine, it is simply the manifestation of the greed of the top 1% as a whole. Each one may not see themselves as "selling out" their people, but each one doing so in minor (sometimes more than minor) ways creates this monstrosity of a machine that keeps the rich rich and the poor poor and the middle class working harder and harder.
How do you stop the machine?
Re:class system (Score:3, Informative)
Money doesn't buy influence. Votes are influence. A politician ultimately answers to the populice. You cannot win a war when the enemy controls where the battle is to take place, the rules of engagement, and the weapons you are allowed to use.
Put simply, we need to organize this murmoring into a chorus. Not a riot. Not a protest. A chorus. We do not need to tear apart our cities to get our point across. The cities are already ours. We do not need to yell at one another. W
Welcome to America (Score:3, Insightful)
Am I the only one out there?
Politicians don't give a rats ass about their constituency. Ever notice when one is interviewed its always "I feel this bill should pass" or "I don't like this bill." Shouldn't it be "the people who put me in office want/don't want this"?
Your fault. (Score:3, Informative)
This is the problem with democracy. If 49 people disagree with 51, the 49 people lose. Everyone's a loser. Stop voting for authoritarian parties (Democrats, Republicans, Greens) and start voting for parties who actually want to downsize DC [downsizedc.org].
Market Realities (Score:5, Insightful)
The "market reality" is that the RIAA and the recording companies that they "represent" have completely lost their sense of reality. They are so afraid of losing the market share they currently posses to new and emerging technologies that they want to litigate and lobby until nobody but them and their archaic means of distribution are legal.
Look at how the movie industry fought against VHS, BetaMax, and more recently DVDs because they would "destroy" the movie industry. Now VHS and DVD rentals and sales are a huge chunk of the movie industry's sales each year. Just as cassettes were once a huge chunk of the RIAA's child company sales.
The simple reality of the situation is that very, very few high quality products are being released in this day and age by large corporate media companies (both music and movie). There are no musical groups that can compete in record sales with the likes of Elvis, the Beatles, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin and the like and there are no movies any more that can be compared in out-and-out quality with older movies like Scarface, Gone With the Wind, the Wizard of Oz, etc. Everything now is about image and flashy special effects and the simple reality of the market is that this stuff just doesn't sell as well as a good product.
This could be a good thing... (Score:3, Interesting)
1) it shows how scared the industry is... that they realize they cannot continue to abuse their customers and survive... they need protection from new and disruptive technologies. This cycle has been seen many many times and signals a major overhaul is well under way whether they like it or not.
2) gives us another avenue to the Supreme Court to challenge copyright law. 'Protection by Law', whether it be an exemption to anti-trust law or perpetual copyright extensions, does not serve the interest of the people.
10th Amendment (Score:5, Insightful)
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
Re:10th Amendment (Score:4, Insightful)
The outcome of this proposal is directly related to everyone here who wants more regulation of business, more control of business, and more taxation of business. It has nothing to do with business but with the federal power that is granted to certain individual organizations -- and that can only be enforced at the point of a gun.
The only monopoly here is big government. It is time to downsize, downsize, downsize.
Ridiculous (Score:3, Insightful)
"The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) is the trade group that represents the U.S. recording industry."
The RIAA is not a governmental institution. And as such it is doomed to be interested in protecting only one group of companies/people. Proposing and accepting laws like the one that would excempt them from anti-trust laws would be like putting the RIAA one step above of what it really should be. It would be too much power for them to use it wisely.
But the truth is that both the RIAA and the government are getting so linked and interlaced one with another, that it makes me wonder how much I want the recording industries to get in control of my life.
You see, they play the role of the weak side. They are always being "robbed" by "evil people" (they would try to convince you that "evil people" stands for "everyone"). So they have a "right" to make you pay piracy taxes on the CDs you buy, make you pay by giving you less content and eventually pay more for it, make you pay by instilling fear in your everyday life.
I can only see that offensive and absurd to say the least. I've never heard anyone call thieves his own customers, and then expect them to keep buying.
Diego Rey
Death Rattle of the Music Industry? (Score:3, Interesting)
Isn't this simply the music industry grasping at straws to save itself?
The simple fact is that no legislation can force individuals to buy their music from any specific source, and if people start getting their music some other way, there's very little the music industry can do to stop it.
When some other music distribution system finally takes away most of the RIAA's customers, an exemption from anti-trust lawsuits will be useless to them. Noone will be suing them for anti-trust when they are no longer a monopoly!
FOR SALE: America (Score:4, Insightful)
This is what GWB stands for: if you're a big business that can fund my reelection campaign, you have a friend in the White House.
Happy Thanksgiving, don't choke on the turkey.
Re:SOLD! (Score:5, Interesting)
Why are candidates so dependent on cash? VOTER APATHY! Yes, it's still our fault. We don't do research, we vote by name recognition and the "message" which has been tested and massaged by the political machine. Now, I'm not foolish enough to believe that I'll get a chance to talk one-on-one with the next presidential candidates, but I'll be doing a little legwork prior to the democratic primary elections.
I already know that Dubya is not a man I can trust to protect my values. IMHO, his eye's are bigger than his stomach, and his mouth is faster than his brain - I probably wouldn't vote for him if we mostly agreed on how the country should be run.
I don't know much about Dean, yet, but I will. He doesn't carry the baggage a congresman usually carries, but he's got a record to follow. I find looking at the "other" sides literature is a good starting point. Find out why they think he shouldn't be in office. Once you know how he handles his missteps, then look at his purported successes. Look at how he's handles problems, then judge his actions based on intent and available data. When you invest money in mutual funds, do you take a look at the historical data or do you look at the methods and values of the manager? Most folks who choose based on the former are sorely disappointed in their investments over time - you're constantly moving money into last year's great performer.
Now, I'm nearly as lazy as the next guy, so I won't even look at the candiates until a moth or so before the primary, when I'm stuck with four or five lousy choices from the original field of fifteen or so. But hey, at least that's manageable.
Hatch's conflict of interest (Score:3, Interesting)
Imagine the outcry from Jack Valenti or Cary Sherman if Wayne Rosso or Anne Gabriel were writing the legislation. The screams of the MPAA and RIAA would be heard around the world. The mainstream press would be doing their normal reporting by press release and Wayne and Anne would be run out of town on a rail..
Stealth Bill Amendments (Score:3, Insightful)
They 'sneak' thru radical changes on the back of seemingly unrelated or benign bills, or adding things AFTER committee hearings are complete. ( not to mention we have to many redundant and insane laws already... )
This practice should really be illegal, and *everything* should be in the open and 100% straight..
Yes I'm being idealistic, but perhaps if enough people get fed up enough on all the secrete agendas, etc that run our government, we all might be able to do something about it. Short of a total revolution..
Orrin bought with money, let's buy coleman w/votes (Score:5, Insightful)
We buy our own Senator the old fasioned way. With voice and votes. If you don't like what Orrin is doing I suggest you contact [senate.gov] Norm Coleman. He's been more than willing to go after these assholes before, and if we can show that enough people care, I'm sure he'll continue to do so. Do something about it rather than sitting around and squaking like a bunch of tired old men.
you all need to write your congressperson (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course you could ask them to bitch-slap Orrin as well, but that's probably not going to endear you to your elected official.
People, we can take back America, but it requires you voters doing your job, knowing the issues, and screaming at your reps for doing stupid shit. Do you know how to contact them--let alone who your reps are? If not, you need to find out.
Send a nasty-gram to Orrin Hatch as well...tell him you're not happy with him selling his office like that. Even if you're not in his state, that sort of thing can make a difference as well. It is the right and duty of the populace to complain about stupid shit. This is one of those times.
No baseball exemption. (Score:5, Informative)
The original judicial review of baseball's anti-competitive actions came in the Federal Baseball [ipwatchdog.com] case, where, and this is very important, the Court decided that Major League Baseball was not covered by anti-trust laws because it was a game, not a business. In 1953, George Toolson sued MLB [ripon.edu], and the Court followed stare decisis, upholding the previous Court's ruling without considering the merits of the case at hand, and of course, in 1972, Flood v. Kuhn, et al. [ipwatchdog.com] hit the Court, and again, the Court upheld the prior ruling, noting (as they did in the Toolson case), that Congress was responsible for legislation to either uphold or deny baseball its exemption. In other words, the Court recognizes these days that the earlier decision was wrong, but it's Congress' job to fix the problem, not the Court's.
Obviously, baseball is a business. It is an industry with billions in revenues, and it is rapidly becoming a worldwide concern. Ironically, horse racing, boxing, and football have all been specifically deemed subject to anti-trust laws by the same Court(s) that granted baseball its "exemption." (One notable exception: Congress passed legislation specifically exemption of the 1971 NFL-AFL football merger from anti-trust legislation.) That's why Congress is always having legislation introduced to revoke baseball's exemption. It's a major hammer for Congress to wield to affect change in MLB. If they ever actually get around to using it, MLB will be under the same constraints as the NFL, the NBA, the NHL, and scores of other professional leagues, and many of their (still) abhorrent practices can be done away with.
If you've made it this far in this comment, I would highly, highly suggest you pick up a copy of A Whole Different Ball Game, by Marvin Miller, the man who basically created the Major League Baseball Player's Association and single-handedly dealt the owners blow after blow at the bargaining table. You might not like the MLBPA now, what with their $10 million a year contracts and their foot-dragging on steroids, but when you actually read how players were treated before they had a union, you'll be on their side for life.
Re:No baseball exemption. (Score:4, Informative)
The courts have made MLB exempt by requiring their explicit inclusion in legislation. Until congress makes it illegal for anti-trust behavior to occur in baseball, it is legal. There's no exemption written into the law, but it's not necessary - the exemption exists nonetheless.
To compare with another popular
Searching ... searching ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Can't find "Corporate Profits" anywhere. It's about time politicians in the US realise that corporations don't have a voting right, and thus are not full citizens.
Desperation (Score:5, Interesting)
The RIAA has been a bit hysterical and made some cruicial blunders. They first went to court instead of to Washington, and their scorched earth campagin isn't working out too well. The various challenges to their subpoenas may invalidate the "shoot first and ask questions later" provisions of the DMCA. I think the MPAA is not amused or appreciative. What they are is scared. This weekend one of the pre-movie commercials at my local Cineplex was an MPAA thingy showing a real working stiff in the movie business to make the point that movie trading hurts real people. Unlike their music buddies, the MPAA has used the courts sparingly and put most of their effort into Washington lobbying. But even that's not gone well. Fritz Holling's bill was a PR disaster. Orrin Hatch's remarks earlier this year that copyright holders should be able to invade people's computers was worse. Even the senate big-wigs felt compelled to issue statements disagreeing.
And now this. They need the Government's protection to survive. They need exemption from anti-trust laws, no matter what the political consequences, or they're toast. Even if you believe all politicians are dishonest bastards, its hard to see how Hatch's little trick will work. One thing politicians really don't like is political headaches. And most are quite willing to toast contributors if there is a need for expediency. Can you imagine the furor if this got passed? Every representative would be flooded with requests by other industries for a similar exemption. All would demand that if it could be done for the movie and music businesses, it could damn well be done for them. And that's a headache no senator or congressman wants to get. Look for a lot of senators suddenly being too busy to answer Hatch's phone calls.
We can only hope... (Score:3, Informative)
A Monopoly is "Exclusive control by one group of the means of producing or selling a commodity or service: 'Monopoly frequently... arises from government support or from collusive agreements among individuals' (Milton Friedman). "
The British East India Company used their power to inflate prices on imported tea. Then, the British Government (which owned the British East India Company) taxed that tea. Hrmm...Does anyone in the class know what the Boston Tea Party was?
Other Monopolies...Everyone knows Rockefeller Plaza, correct? And Carnegie Melon University? And J. P. Morgan? John D. Rockefeller was a monopoly owner in the late 1870s. He controlled the whole of oil refinery. He didn't care who drilled for it, or who sold it, he just refined it. 96% of it. He cut prices so low that other businesses couldn't compete. Andrew (I believe) Carnegie controlled steel production. He controlled every part from the mining of its components to the shipping. He used a new process (I believe Bessemer...it's been a few years) which made steel cheaper, stronger, and easily manufacturered. J. P. Morgan? The money guy: He controlled most of the banks in America. He actually was so rich and so powerful he brought the whole nation out of depression. He brought all of the bankers under his control, said "OK, how much can you give to the government?", "And you?", "And what about you?". He brought the whole damn nation out of a small but potentially disastrous depression.
Roosevelt passed the Sherman Anti-trust Act. From this act, "Every person who shall monopolize, or attempt to monopolize, or combine or conspire with any other person or persons, to monopolize any part of the trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, shall be deemed guilty of a felony, and, on conviction thereof, shall be punished by fine not exceeding $10,000,000 if a corporation, or, if any other person, $350,000, or by imprisonment not exceeding three years, or by both said punishments, in the discretion of the court. "
Source: USDOJ [usdoj.gov]
There are other anti-trust laws (Clayton Act, also on the above page). The purpose of them is so that no one corporation or organization can come to control a large part of any market. It is a protection to the consumers. We have been without protection from the RIAA for years. We've been forced to pay their steep prices for a long time, until the idea of Napster came around.
US Lawmakers must remember the past. They must ignore the few million they got from the RIAA in their campaigns. The must not pass any sort of legislation such as what the RIAA is aiming for. The RIAA is a monopoly. To exempt them would only give a hundred new arms to the octopus that it already is. Write your local congress-critter and express your views.
(Footnote: Please excuse any historical errors. I am a history buff, but it's been three years since I studied American History. I can ensure you it's mostly accurate...)
Re:Republicans, republicans, republicans (Score:3, Insightful)
Just a though....
More voting (Score:4, Insightful)
It doesn't matter which candidate or which party you choose, it's all funded from the same source, beholden to the same interests, ready and willing to scratch the same backs. THAT is the problem, and in an incredible demonstration of the chicken-and-egg problem, it is also the reason for much of voter apathy.
Re:Republicans, republicans, republicans (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Republicans, republicans, republicans (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Republicans, republicans, republicans (Score:4, Interesting)
But his record as governor of Vermont does indicate that, at least on occasion, he's willing to take unpopular stands when he feels it's the right thing to do. And his policy statements -- whether or not he intends to live up to them -- are more in accordance with my personal beliefs than those of any other politician, of any party, at any level, I can remember. He might be just another sellout schmuck with good PR. He might also, just possibly, be another Lincoln or Roosevelt (either one) or Truman. And given that the rest of the field that has any chance of winning is composed of people I know to be sellout schmucks with good PR
Don't assume that everyone who disagrees with you, or doesn't share your reflexive cynicism about all politicians, is ill-informed. Skepticism is valuable; so is hope. Dean gives me at least some hope, and considering the direction the country's headed right now, that's a precious thing. If he wins, and turns out to be a letdown
Re:I wonder why (Score:2)
Re:The RIAA-is-Stupid Fund (Score:3, Interesting)
Good idea though, as long as the spending towards the RIAA stops, no matter how much you like the artist. I've had to stop listening to a number of artists since I stopped several years ago. I don't really regret it either. I've found entire new genres that appeal to me as a result.