Best Buy Uses DMCA To Quash Black Friday Prices 640
Sethb writes "It looks like Best Buy didn't learn from Wal-Mart last year, and has now invoked the DMCA in order to prevent FatWallet from posting information about what items they will have on sale the day after Thanksgiving. Hopefully FatWallet will stand up for themselves again, and Best Buy will be laughed out of court."
Next Headline: (Score:5, Insightful)
This law is getting just a shade ridiculous.
Re:Next Headline: (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Next Headline: (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Next Headline: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Next Headline: (Score:5, Funny)
Right, and what how fast Mom and Dad stop paying for your school.
they may as well cut their losses as stand around and what it being wasted on you.
Re:Next Headline: (Score:3, Funny)
That might affect whether or not you want to let them see your marks. :-)
Re:Next Headline: (Score:3, Informative)
Your grades are already safe (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Next Headline: (Score:5, Funny)
> I mean yes; they pay the tuition, but isnt the semi-unique sequence of D's and
> F's my copyright?
Certainly you can sue the university for circumventing your resistance to reveal
your copyrighted and well-covered skill profile. Printing and releasing it to
third parties qualifies the university as professional class attacker, probably
driven by monetary or political incentives. This should be enough to arrest them
under DMCA for at least 6 months and then sending them to Russia.
Re:Next Headline: (Score:5, Informative)
As soon as they are official they are available to anyone who cares to request them.
Re:Next Headline: (Score:5, Funny)
No. Unfortunately for me, I can claim prior art.
Re:Next Headline: (Score:2, Funny)
This law is getting just a shade ridiculous.
I wasn't aware that the law had changed at all.
Re:Parent Post ... (Score:3, Interesting)
"While this isn't technically a violation, maybe it should be because it could cost [Big Business X] some money."
That's a pretty fucking lame excuse. How about they get the same protection under the law as everyone else and if they want to keep a secret, they just don't fucking tell anyone?
national buy nothing day (Score:5, Informative)
or whats left of it.
have fun at wal-mart suckers
You mean fighting our culture, right? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You mean fighting our culture, right? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, it does. It is sad that our [American] culture is defined by consumerism as opposed to food, literature, art, music, fairy tales, and social events.
When someone says "American Culture", what is the first thing that pops into your head? I think Coke, or something along those lines. Say "Russian Culture" and I think ballet, itsy-bitsy figure skaters, and vodka. "Italian?" Pasta mama mia! And opera. Ferrari is there, but somewhere down the list.
Granted, cultural history here starts about 300 years ago, versus 2,000-4,000 years in much of the rest of the world. I'm not including Native Americans because we, for all intents and purposes, exterminated them. Lack of an ancient heritage doesn't have to mean that all we think about is obtaining "stuff". We can do better than this.
On that "black friday" day, buy nothing. In fact, buy nothing (or little) whenever you can. Instead of working extra hours for money to buy christmas presents, take that time and spend it with your kids/family. Heck, make them something with your hands. They'll remember it for a heck of a lot longer than an expensive piece of anything from a store.
</rant>
Re:You mean fighting our culture, right? (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, the cool thing about America is that there is no single culture. There are urban cultures, rural cultures, religious cultures, and so on. Each one draws from a different set of influences. America has no defining culture because our population is so diverse. Each culture has its own different food, literature, art, music, etc. Mexican-American culture is significantly different from Mexican culture.
You also seem to be mixing up the iconography of a culture with the true values of a culture. I think most Italians would probably be offended if all you could think about Italy was pasta. All the Coke analogy proves is that Coke has been successful at selling their image. Everyone knows Coke is from America, whether it's an important part of our culture or not, so you just kind of make the relation.
consumerism means bankrupt values (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm afraid that Coke is a pretty good shorthand reference for American culture. American cities are hidious, with maybe two exceptions (San Fran, New Orleans). The sole urban design goal seems to be the breakdown of community and conversion of citizens to consumers. We've lost a tremendous amount of personal time to work. Is that a good trade-off? What about pro-family values? Can you raise your kids from work? Once they are fed, housed, and clothed, is the delta income worth the -delta face time? Did you get a choice re: -delta face time?
GDP is not a sound measure of societal health. I don't think it's even a good measure of economic health. Where externalities aren't monetized (you aren't charged for pollution), but cancer treatments are, you have a skewed measurement and eventually warped values.
Re:You mean fighting our culture, right? (Score:5, Interesting)
Our history on this continent is only 300 years or so old. But our culture, just like that of the Europeans is thousands of years old. Just because our ancestors moved to a new continent doesn't mean they gave their culture up. We got our culture from our ancestors; the Europeans got their culture from their ancestors. We've changed that culture since then, the Europeans have changed that culture since then. Why should the Europeans somehow have more of a right to that culture just because they live on the same continent that our shared ancestors lived on?
Legitimate criticism (like criticisms of American consumerism) are justified as long as clear arguments are presented to show that those are indeed features of American culture and that they are indeed harmful. The yogurt joke* is just bigotry in one of its variety of forms.
Oh and by the way: my father spent 2 years with the Navajos and I have Cherokee indian ancestry. Native American culture has had a direct effect on the way I view the world. Stating that Native American culture has no effect on our culture today is just as inaccurate as stating that European culture isn't a part of our cultural heritage. Just as one example: did you know that the turkey, the potato, tobacco, the tomato, the pumpkin, the cranberry, corn, kidney beans, bell peppers, pecans, squash, and many other crops are American? Many dishes which are made from these foods still cannot be found in Germany today (cornbread, pumpkin pie, candy corn, sweet potato casserole, cranberry relish, pecan anything, etc.)
*(what's the difference between a cup of yoghurt and America? -- yoghurt will eventually develop a culture)
(end rant -- sorry. As you can imagine its an issue of some sensitivity for me.)
Re:You mean fighting our culture, right? (Score:4, Interesting)
That's true. All nations still dwell within the U.S., even if they are not still within their sovreign states. The American Culture is much more than a propensity to eat sweet and fatty things, and to buy the biggest thing with the most pizzaz. The culture of the U.S. is a conglomeration of family values, community support, acceptance of differences, in addition to the food, all blended together with a "don't tread on me" attitude.
This became most apparent after 9/11, where each U.S. citizen felt that much closer to their fellow citizen. I'm sure the Red Cross hadn't seen so much blood donated as in those following weeks, nor has New York been offered so much voluntary assistance. The Stars and Stripes became an emblem that shone on automobiles, and though the flag was treated without respect in these instances, the motivation, attitude, and intentions were sincere and honorable.
The culture gets buried beneath things that are clearly against it's members, those things being the superior attitudes of super-commerce, the inherant human want for everything, and the supreme availability of everything to those humans. No culture goes without these problems, though. The U.S. has enemies within that treat the people like cattle being steered towards the butcher. These enemies have arisen from within the culture, but they are not of the culture itself.
The culture of the U.S. is quite possibly the most flexible one, which is why such things can occur. Coca-Cola is not an emblem of the U.S. culture, rather it is a battle-flag of it's children. The culture supports the U.S., it thrives within each of its citizens without them knowing about it.
The culture of the U.S. is not shallow, like many think it is. The culture is possibly more complex than any other on this Earth, precisely because of the number of lives, races, and creeds that went into building it. It has its flaws, yet it is the object of jealousy the whole world over. People look at America and thing Coke, yet people also look at America and think "freedom," "spirit," "steadfastness," and "cohesion."
Re:national buy nothing day (Score:3, Funny)
Save money by skipping sales? (Score:2)
Re:My psychic girlfriend's vision (Score:2, Funny)
it's rare to see cataclysmics out and about this late in the year. usually they hibernate.
Re:national buy nothing day (Score:5, Insightful)
It's to get you thinking about what the fuck you're doing with your life and the world around you.
Why are you filling your life up with useless shit (made by slave-labor in China)? What's the point? Are you charging it to a credit card that you've never had a zero balance on? Does it make you feel happier than no-money fun with friends/family? Why is that?
--
Re:national buy nothing day (Score:5, Insightful)
Note that a debit card offers some of these protections, but the fact that your money can be tied up during an investigation makes the debit card a dangerous and unsuitable substitute for a credit card.
Re:national buy nothing day (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:national buy nothing day (Score:5, Informative)
Are you charging it to a credit card that you've never had a zero balance on?
Why would you bother keeping a credit card with a zero balance on it? If you can afford to buy stuff without credit, you don't need one.
Why use a credit card, even if you don't need one?1. Easier than carrying around a stack of cash, or checks
2. Accepted more than checks
3. Buying online or by phone. Sure. a *few* vendors might let you mail cash, checks, or money orders, but mailing takes several days and CCs are instant.
4. Protection. Can't charge-back with cash
5. Records. You get a monthly itemized list of all transactions. With cash you have to keep track by hand
6. Float. You don't have to pay until the end of your billing cycle.
7. Building credit. You can use a credit card (without carrying a balance) to establish a good credit history for when you want larger loans (car, house) later.
Plenty of benefits, and what would you use instead?
Re:national buy nothing day (Score:3)
Re:national buy nothing day (Score:3, Interesting)
there is one more reason that I think is very important:
8. Credit card companies charge vendors between 3% and 5% of your purchase. This means that this price is already reflected into your purchase price. If you're buying with cash, the price is still the same (in most cases) and the vendor pockets the difference. If you're buying with a credit card and you're smart a
Re:national buy nothing day (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't quite understand your point 7. When you apply for a major credit card like Visa or MasterCard they want to know your income and any debt you might already have. Does using credit card somehow enhance one's credit rating?
While probably not much use to someone with established credit, they're good for starting out. It's better to get a credit card and use it responsibly to prove you're worthy of other kinds of credit, than to have no history at all.
Re:national buy nothing day (Score:5, Informative)
Debit cards can be exceedingly dangerous, namely in that you are not offered the same protections against fraud that you are automatically provided by a credit card.
Suppose your card is stolen and someone makes dozens of little purchases so as not to raise suspicion, or gets a fake I.D. with your name on it so he can charge up a storm. If it's a credit card, once you report it stolen, you're not liable for any of the charges made on it. If it's a debit card, real, actual money has been sucked out of your bank account, never to be seen again. Good luck getting that back. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm suggesting it's far more difficult.
Saying "chargeback is handled by the shop if you have the receipt" isn't the issue; suppose the shop rips you off. Suppose you pay in advance for something with a debit card but never receive the product? What does your bank do then?
Regarding point 7 -- credit lending is a fickle mistress, but does adhere to at least some principles:
Debit card protections (Score:5, Informative)
Mastercard explicitly denies the same, but mentions on their website many banks choose to do so voluntarily.
Re:national buy nothing day (Score:3, Informative)
Bullshit. I am sick of people spreading this lie.
Credit companies and banks love to spread this lie and is it 100% untrue.
if you get a FHA loan, and if you live in the United states and never bought a home before you qualify, you can get one without any credit at all and only 2% down.
in fact you can get one with a NEGATIVE credit rating and less than 10% down.
and YES
Re:national buy nothing day (Score:3, Funny)
I think having a tech job and a high Best Buy card limit should automatically set your credit score to negative, it doesnt get more risky than that.
Re:national buy nothing day (Score:3, Interesting)
I've been the victem of credit card fraud. I had it cleared up, and I was really annoyed, but it wasn't just a phone call and everything was OK. I don't carry credit debt, so it wasn't a big problem, but it did ta
Re:national buy nothing day (Score:3, Informative)
Lenders are now relying on a score called FICO from the Fair Issac corperation as the benchmark of a consumer's credit quality. The exact formula is kept secret, but it is known that indicators of past payment history contribute 30% of the overall score. If
Re:national buy nothing day (Score:3, Offtopic)
In fact, the 1773 Tea Act, which provoked the Boston Tea Party, remitted a significant English tea tax. The result was that Americans could buy British East India Company tea after the Tea Act for significantly less than they previously were being charged for either legal British tea or smuggled Dutch tea. And this cheaper tea was of generally higher quality than the Dutch tea, too.
So what was the issue? The extent of Parliamentary authority.
The small three-penny Townsend duty was le
Re:national buy nothing day (Score:3, Funny)
had the American colonies remained a part of the Empire, Britain would've been so strong that the Germans wouldn't have dared fight them (and us) in the 20th Century and World War I and II would've never happened
Wow. It's cool how you can see into these alternate universes and know the outcomes. I wish I had that power. Revisionist history works both ways.
Pretty braindead (Score:3, Informative)
At least the Germans have some laws governing sales, so they have some logic in there.
Re:Pretty braindead (Score:2)
Re:Pretty braindead (Score:3, Insightful)
Think about it - if there are lawyers involved in an adversarial encounter (as opposed to, for instance, a real estate sale where everybody WANTS the deal to happen), you are almost guaranteed that someb
Is it just me... (Score:3, Insightful)
And Best Buy DOES seem to have some pretty good prices, too, at least on new-release DVD's...
Re:Is it just me... (Score:2)
Re:Is it just me... (Score:5, Funny)
The unfortunate side-effect of this is I have to move every few years as I run out of places to buy food, clothes and other necessities of life...
*BUT* at least I live a principled life! ;-)
Stop arguing for laziness with false dichotomies. (Score:4, Insightful)
A common argument tactic is to push the debate into a false dichotomy--all or nothing--is a commonly used one. We see this with the MPAA/RIAA in copyright extension and copy prevention techniques (which attempt to keep you from making even non-infringing copies). In this instance, since you can't avoid doing business with all the companies that hurt you, you are somehow ethically justified in avoiding none of them. With this logic it's okay to throw up your hands in disgruntlement then pay to see the next Star Wars movie, buy proprietary software, or the next flashy tech trinket you want.
Don't fall for this trap. Nobody is asking you to avoid all companies that harm you. You can choose to avoid some of them and still lead a perfectly productive and entertained life. Start with the easy ones like major movie and record publishers. You might even save a few bucks in the process (which you might choose to spend on organizations and artists that aren't trying to restrict your freedom to share). With other goods and services, you can find alternatives. You can tell businesses that don't hurt you why you're willing to buy stuff from them instead of their competitor. Don't let the best be the enemy of the good.
Re:Is it just me... (Score:2)
It's just you. OK, maybe not just you, but most people don't participate in useless boycotts.
Re:Is it just me... (Score:2)
Not really fair to disclose this information. (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not saying the DMCA oughta cover this, but this is definitely something that can hurt business.
Re:Not really fair to disclose this information. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Not really fair to disclose this information. (Score:2)
Re:Not really fair to disclose this information? (Score:2, Interesting)
What about the rest of us, who are 'merely' people, and not incorporated profit-driven organisations?
Re:Not really fair to disclose this information? (Score:5, Insightful)
The primary purpose of government/law is to further the advancement of society; but unfortunately sometimes we lose sight of that.
Re:Not really fair to disclose this information? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm sorry, but you really jumped the gun there. He didn't say that using the DMCA in such a fashion was right (in fact, quite the opposite). He just said that businesses do have a legitimate concern in this case.
Most corporations really aren't evil. The government does protect them (read: not the primary purpose), but that's because most businesses do a huge public service. The rest of us work for those businesses. Who else would we work for?
Re:Not really fair to disclose this information? (Score:2)
You may get mom and pop selling you computers, but they won't be building the circuitry.
Re:Not really fair to disclose this information? (Score:3, Interesting)
Not exactly but it is their responsibility to foster a healthy economy and promote jobs for its citizens. If a company is not doing well then the economy will be affected and jobs will be lost so in a way it is the primary purpose of the government and laws to protect businesses.
Re:Not really fair to disclose this information. (Score:5, Insightful)
Or to wait til you can get a good deal on a used one on ebay ?
How about having an above average IQ ? That cuts into your usefulness as a consumer also.
Just because a business thought of a way to make money, doesn't mean actions that make that way look stupid are somehow "unfair". It's just as "unfair" to not let me read all the ads before I go shopping.
Re:Not really fair to disclose this information. (Score:5, Funny)
Customer Notice! EULA!
To all customers entering this store you have access to private corporate information regarding prices for items that available for sale in this store. Any attempt to use this information for you own benefit, by comparision shopping or purchasing of items from a competitor, or to the detriment of this store, can be used against you in court of law as a violation of "corporate trade secrets" via DMCA!
Thank you and have a nice visit.
Re:Not really fair to disclose this information. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Not really fair to disclose this information. (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't FatWallet have a right to make money too? Best Buy should have guarded their pricing info better. Besides, you don't think Best Buy sends people to other stores to check prices?
Re:Not really fair to disclose this information. (Score:5, Insightful)
Much of the reason the system seems so out of wack right now is that it's the company who has the most clever advertising that wins, NOT the one actually producing the best product. And that's very destructive in the long run.
Re:Not really fair to disclose this information. (Score:3, Insightful)
[...]
Much of the reason the system seems so out of wack right now is that it's the company who has the most clever advertising that wins, NOT the one actually producing the best product.
Not that I disagree with you on principle, but:
What about the advertising companies? Their product is advertisement, you seem to not include t
Re:Not really fair to disclose this information. (Score:3, Insightful)
But anyway, my point wasn't that advertisers need to be gotten rid of - but that the Corporations have no business whatsoever trying to keep accurate and information information out of the media. Widespread proliferation of this sort of stuff (the FatWallet prices) can provide an effective counte
Re:Advertising (Score:3, Insightful)
> Proportional to the number of people employed,
> in fact.
Not necessarily. Paying people is just a way of keeping score. In the end, economic development depends on producing goods and services that consumers actually want. That is, you could "employ" everyone at digging holes and filling them in, and "pay" them, but if that results in less goods and services then the pay they get does not matter -- quality of life will suffer.
So in fact, adverti
Re:Not really fair to disclose this information. (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually it would cause a business to more accurately price things appropriately to demand. But that's not what they want is it? They want to be able to price things above what demand would dictate so they can have higher profits. In this case they don't even want to do that.. they want to force people into the stores to find loss-leader items so they can sell them the high-profit items along with or instead of the low priced items.
From what I remember in civics (history/government) class long ago there were no items in the Constitution or Bill of Rights which guarantee businesses high margins at the expense of other citizens. Funny how things which hurt margins (not destroy sales.. but hurt margins) in favor of the rest of society are suddenly becomming illegal in the U.S.
I own a small business. Current US policies (even legitimate use of DMCA) don't appear to do one bit of good for small business. They only seem to help big business... which already has tons of tax breaks and other benefits none of the rest of us get.
The right to profit (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not saying the DMCA oughta cover this, but this is definitely something that can hurt business.
There is no such thing as a right to profit.
Businesses will try to get as much money as they can from their customers, while customers will try to get what they need/want for the cheapest price.
Using the DMCA to deny a customer's right to f
Re:The right to profit (Score:2)
If there was, couldn't we just find the best price then keep invoking this "right" to get better and better prices?
Re:Not really fair to disclose this information. (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, the OP is correct - facts are not copyrightable. Copyright is however held on the *compilation* and upon the *embodiment* thereof.
17 USC 102 (b) says:
In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work
So finding out Mario cart 64 will be on sale and then publicizing it isn't a violation of copyright as long as they don't infringe the artwork/etc of the original. This dog won't hunt.
Best Buy would be *much* better served by wandering over to 18 USC 1832 and arguing it's a trade secret:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1832.html
18 USC 1832 (a)(2) seems a slam dunk:
without authorization copies, duplicates, sketches, draws, photographs, downloads, uploads, alters, destroys, photocopies, replicates, transmits, delivers, sends, mails, communicates, or conveys such information;
This dog probably *can* hunt, and I admit no clue why Best Buy didn't pursue this unless they know of some reason why it would fall through in court. Best guess I can make is that there's some reason they can't make 1832(a) stick:
Whoever, with intent to convert a trade secret, that is related to or included in a product that is produced for or placed in interstate or foreign commerce, to the economic benefit of anyone other than the owner thereof, and intending or knowing that the offense will, injure any owner of that trade secret, knowingly -
FatWallet could probably make the case that since Best Buy is willing to sell the gear on sale, that no injury is incurred because people wait till the sale starts to buy it. If Best Buy is injured because people buy the box at $149, they shouldn't be lowering the price from $179.
No scans? (Score:4, Insightful)
In this particular case it's not worth it anyways, as most of the deals were easily available from other retailers for about the same price. It would be good though, to finally get those lawyers into the court and get a precedent of them being slapped with "No can't do" decision. That way any upcoming price-related DMCA cases would be still-born
Interesting... (Score:2, Interesting)
As said above, releasing such data would cripple Best Buy's ability to price and stock their items strategically. But on the other side of the coin, I believe BB would benefit much more by having the data released to a limited degree and allowing people to at least see
Re:Interesting... (Score:2)
On the other hand, the website in question (which was involved in this during the last go-round I believe), is probably enjoying the extra attention and big spike in viewers that comes from this
Re:Interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
Instead, as a poster pointed out earlier in this topic, our economy is more or less based on free market principles. The foundation of the free market is the ability of the members of that market to be able to make informed decisions about their economic choices(e.g. buying something). By saying that Best Buy has the right to prevent people from sharing information about its prices, you are implicitly tossing out a free market in favor of a "lets make the rich richer" market.
Wonderful
Re:Interesting... (Score:3, Funny)
Ecactly. Since it's sole function is to ensure the highest profits for the Record Labels, the law doesn't apply here.
Re:Interesting... (Score:2)
Who cares what Best Buy's interests are? I have an interest in executing anyone who critices me. Does that mean I have the right to do so? No!!!!!
The point here is that Best Buy is trying to censor information they have no right to censor. Bust Buy can not invoke the DMCA unless they have a copyright on the content they wish to control. Facts (e.g. prices) are not copyrightable. Bust B
Same thing as last year? (Score:5, Interesting)
I still have my response emails from Target, Wal-Mart, and Best Buy from last November/December when the same thing went down. They basically said, "Our prices are designed to help our customers save money and these 'hackers' are violating your rights as a consumer as well as ours. We shall defend ourselves by any means neccesary"
What a joke.
Re:Same thing as last year? (Score:3, Insightful)
If other stores get wind of the loss leader selections with time to react, and duplicate them, suddenly all of the punch of the loss leader is lost. If everybody knew everybody's loss leaders ahead, there'd be no poi
Can somebody refresh my memory (Score:2)
Re:Can somebody refresh my memory (Score:2)
It occurs to me, however, that Fat Wallet could reverse-DMCA them. Before you can get to their actual prices, you have to click through a screen that says something like, "The information contained on this site is licensed fo
Re:SSL doesn't violate DMCA (Score:2)
Tough for Best Buy. (Score:3, Informative)
On the other hand, maybe if I find out (hypothetically) that the printer I was going to buy tomorrow at Fry's will be 20% less at Best Buy, I'll wait to shop at a Best Buy.
Re:Tough for Best Buy. (Score:2)
This is very analogous to the current MPAA issue. Insiders can't be controlled/trusted and kept from releasing information early, so instead, the 'victim' just stretches the hell out of existing laws and lets their lawyers clean up the mess. Laziness, plain and simple.
Best Buy =best scammer (Score:2, Troll)
Friends don't let friends shop there, they are a terrible store.
Mod up (Score:3, Insightful)
Somebody had better sue back this time (Score:5, Informative)
`(f) MISREPRESENTATIONS- Any person who knowingly materially misrepresents under this section--
`(1) that material or activity is infringing, or
`(2) that material or activity was removed or disabled by mistake or misidentification,
shall be liable for any damages, including costs and attorneys' fees, incurred by the alleged infringer, by any copyright owner or copyright owner's authorized licensee, or by a service provider, who is injured by such misrepresentation, as the result of the service provider relying upon such misrepresentation in removing or disabling access to the material or activity claimed to be infringing, or in replacing the removed material or ceasing to disable access to it.
Christmas is Dead - OT rant by teamhasnoi (Score:3)
I won't be buying anything that day. Why go to the store at all? It will be crowded, people will push and shove to get their hands on the lastest, bestest, cheapest item, forgetting *why* they're there in the first place.
This 'holiday' has gotten so far away from the original meaning that it shouldn't be called 'Christmas' anymore.
Society, marketing and more marketing shames everyone to buy, buy, buy. Makes me ill to see 'Christmas' decor up *the day after Halloween*.
Spend time with your family and friends. Let them know you love them. Give them a gift, even. Just don't get sucked into the 'holiday spirit' of finding the best deal on Takgagamoochi cards or whatever.
Your time is the best gift. Or old Playboy mags.
Take Christmas Back (Score:3, Troll)
No kidding! "Christmas" used to be a fun celebration of the winter solstice, something especially important for those people living in Northern Europe, where the winter nights are especially long and dark. A good reason to get together with friends and family, exchange gifts, and cheer up the season.
And then those stupid mystical religious people had to come along and appropriate it for thems
best buy black friday items (Score:5, Informative)
SanDisk 256MB CF Card - $40 A/R
SanDisk 256MB SD Card - $50 A/R
DVD XCopy: Gold - $20 A/R
Norton SystemWorks/AntiSpam/Firewall 3-in-1 package - $0 A/R
Lite-On 4x Multi-Format DVD Burner - $80 A/R
Samsung 17" LCD Monitor - $280 A/R
ATI Radeon 9600 128MB - $70 A/R
Sony P-10 5MP Digital Camera w/free 64MB MS - $400 A/R
Canon Powershot A70 3.2MP w/free 64MB CF - $300 A/R
FULL Black Friday List (Score:5, Informative)
Madden 2004 (PC) - $14.99
RCA 52" Rear Projection HDTV - $1000
Daewoo 42" Plasma TV - $2300 A/R
Panasonic 5.1 700-Watt Home Theatre w/progressive scan DVD player (speakers are built into stands) - $500 w/$50 free gift card
600-Watt version of above w/o speaker stands - $350 w/free $50 gift card
Bose 3-2-1 Home Theatre System - $900
Pinnacle Studio 8 - $0 A/R
MS Digital Image Suite 9.0 - $20 A/R
Canon ZR60 MiniDV Camcorder - $300 A/R
MAG 19" LCD Monitor - $430 A/R
SanDisk 256MB USB Memory Key - $40 A/R
Sony Clie SJ-22 - $100 A/R
Casio 2.3" Handheld TV - $40 A/R
APC 350VA UPS - $5 A/R
FujiFilm FinePix A303 3.2MP - $150
Maxtor 120GB 7200RPM Internal HD w/8MB Buffer - $50 A/R
SanDisk 256MB CF Card - $40 A/R
SanDisk 256MB SD Card - $50 A/R
DVD XCopy: Gold - $20 A/R
Norton SystemWorks/AntiSpam/Firewall 3-in-1 package - $0 A/R
Lite-On 4x Multi-Format DVD Burner - $80 A/R
Samsung 17" LCD Monitor - $280 A/R
ATI Radeon 9600 128MB - $70 A/R
Sony P-10 5MP Digital Camera w/free 64MB MS - $400 A/R
Canon Powershot A70 3.2MP w/free 64MB CF - $300 A/R
Re:FULL Black Friday List (Score:3, Informative)
Rebates are a sham. I never factor in post-rebate prices -- I once got a check back from a rebate and my bank refused it, claiming it wasn't a real check. What a joke.
This isn't anything to write home about.
MAYBE this DMCA thing was a bad idea... (Score:5, Insightful)
Given that there has been prior failure of the exact same application of the law we fondly refer to as the "DMCA" and assuming they are aware of this, then it is clear that these "lawyers" are not interested in using the "DMCA" as it was intended and are instead using it as a refridgerator. (As a means to apply a "chilling effect" to anything that might seem like competition or might otherwise endanger their profitability.)
I know I am really out on a limb here suggesting that these "lawyers" would even dream of using law for purposes it was never intended. But I'm just presenting a possible explanation for their behavior without suggesting they are morons.
Not Good Enough (Score:5, Insightful)
No, no, NO.
If Best Buy gets laughed out of court in the middle of December, they've already won. Fat Wallet took down their ads, had to hire a lawyer, free speech was stifled.
I am sad to see that FatWallet blinked this time, after staring down Walmart and getting them to back down. The argument that facts cannot be copyrighted seems solid, and the DMCA shouldn't change that (except for removign due proes, of course.) We need this case to go to court, and the countersuit to be pursued even after Best Buy drops it two weks after the fact.
Fuckers.
The only possible good outcome here is if Fat Wallet stood up, kept up the ads, and countersued.
The DMCA doesn't change whether something is copyrightable, and facts
WHAT???? (Score:5, Interesting)
Best Buy got sued for something similar (Score:5, Interesting)
Direct Snail-Mail to... (Score:5, Informative)
For general comments and questions about Best Buy Co., Inc., contact:
Best Buy Co., Inc.
Corporate Headquarters
P.O. Box 9312
Minneapolis, MN 55440-9312
This story hasn't gotten a lot of attention outside of FatWallet's forums and Slashdot. If this activity bothers you, take a few minutes, write a letter, lick a stamp, and let them know you're paying attention. They are very unlikely to win if this goes to court, so they don't need a whole lot of motivation to stop the idiotic activity. I, for one, won't be patronizing their store again. I mean really, if you need your "retail" electronics fix, they have plenty of competitors who offer the same junk at the same high prices.
Kick them a letter and thank them for making the choice of where to shop a little easier.
Squelch is on high (Score:5, Insightful)
We don't want....them. Us vs. them. If 'they' trusted 'us', we might trust them. In the mean time...give 'em hell.
Time for mirrors (Score:4, Informative)
Other mirrors are up. Use the example of bittorrent and help spread the load and information. I have not seen nor read any complaints from Best Buy, so I do not know what their issue may be.
http://www.andy-akb.com/bf/
http://www.uswebstreet.com/~cmptrdude1/default.
http://cpanel19.gzo.com/~every/blackfriday/
http://www.quepons.com/blackfriday.html
If you see a Best Buy sale coming, you get a bonus (Score:5, Informative)
If you have advanced knowledge of what Best Buy will put on sale 2 weeks from now, you can buy that item today from them at the higher price, and then claim the 110% price protection offer they make to get an additional 10% of the discount. In fact, you can do the same to Circuit City using Best Buy's sale, or vice-versa because Circuit City has the same "price protection" policy.
Therefore, they don't want you to be able to see their price drops coming... and that's why sale info is top secret until the day the sale goes into effect, at which point it's public info.
Rebate-Schmebait (Score:4, Insightful)
Rebates are taxes on laziness, or more appropriately a false-advertising campaign designed to target people who aren't inclined to jump through the hoops necessary to get the rebates. If the company does an "instant rebate" at the time of purchase, that's another matter, but my policy is I do NOT buy any product that promises a certain price "after rebate" - that's BS. What I pay at the POS is the price of the product and I'm not giving the manufacturer additional information or worrying about documentation, mailing crap and keeping track of that malarky. I encourage everyone else to avoid any product promotions involving rebates so we can send a message to these retailers that we're not going to play their stupid false advertising game.
We do not plan on releasing information (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Suing you for sources! (Score:5, Informative)
The issue at hand is that Best Buy filed a DMCA notice - not a c&d. This means that they are claiming copyrihght on the information.
A DMCA notification allows the notifier to subpoena the information regardless of the merit of the copyright claim, that is the issue we are dealing with here.
If this were another type of Intellectual property issue, such as trade secret, Best Buy would have to file a lawsuit against the John Doe, and then subpoena the information based upon the lawsuit.
However, in this case, it appears as though the information was available elsewhere before it was posted on FatWallet, which it could be argued that the information was already "in the public", so the trade secret claims would be tough to prove.
Any intellectual property claim would be against the person making the post on our site, as we would have immunity thanks to the commudications decency act.
Thanks again for your comments
Tim Storm FatWallet, inc.
Re:actually a good use for once (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmm, let's see. This is supposed to be private information at the moment. Should a person (or a company) have the right to keep sensitive information private if it poses no harm to anyone? I'm inclined to answer yes.
I'm inclined to answer yes to that question too, but that isn't the question in this case. The question is, once BestBuy has failed to keep the information private, do they have a right to force someone else to take on the duty of non-disclosure even though they haven't signed a non-disclosure agreement? That, I'm inclined to answer a big loud "No!" to. If BestBuy wants to keep their prices private, the onus is on them to keep them private, not the rest of us.