Symantec Says No To Pro-Gun Sites 1716
cluge writes "A recent American Rifleman contained small column that said that Symantec's new Internet Security 2004 would block pro gun rights sites (i.e. NRA sites), while not blocking similar anti-gun rights web sites. Being the eternal skeptic, this claim was tested by downloading the trial version and running some tests against it. To my surprise I found the every NRA site was blocked and was in the category 'weapons.' This even included the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action. Some sites that were not blocked were notable anti-gun rights sites such as The Brady Campaign, and Good Bye Guns. The only anti-gun rights site that was blocked that I could find was Hand Gun Control's web site." Read on for more.
cluge continues: "My rather informal test still raises the spectre that a large corporate entity may be clandestinely trying to sway you or your child's political views by censoring content from one side of a political debate. This is indeed chilling, especially considering that such software is required to be used in libraries to protect children. Is this political slant common in censorware? Have slashdotters found similar glitches in other 'parental control' software?"
Slashdot has certainly covered censorware before, but reports like this are still valuable as the world evolves.
Hypocrites. (Score:2, Interesting)
Who? (Score:2, Interesting)
Who would that be at Symantec? I wonder if the software blocks porn and anti-gun sites as well?
Censorware? (Score:1, Interesting)
Censorware who, because of Michael's behaviour, were forced to get a new domain [censorware.net] Censorware?
I guess the true test of the first amendment... (Score:2, Interesting)
This stuff stinks (Score:5, Interesting)
Other "nannyware" software in the past has been shown to block access to liberal political sites, now here's one that blocks conservative ones. Maybe this will wake up our elected leaders to the fact that mandating this type of software for libraries and such is bad idea.
I can see parents going to the software store in the future, asking for web filter software and having the retail-droid ask, "Would you like a liberal version or a conservative one?"
Ongoing discussion about this in rec.guns (Score:2, Interesting)
Reminds me of a poem (Score:4, Interesting)
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.
Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.
Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.
Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte."
Martin Niemoller, 1892-1984
English Translation [remember.org]
Re:Maybe it makes sense (Score:5, Interesting)
Read the article. The sites blocked include the NRA's lobbying site. That most certainly falls under the category of "advocacy of gun rights". This certainly falls under the umbrella of "view point discrimination" and goverment supported entities, including libraries, have no business using this software.
Furthermore, you unfairly characterize the activities of the NRA. Most of the non-lobbying work of the NRA is promoting the sports of hunting and target shooting. While you may morally object to hunting (as is your right) it is a legal activity virtually everywhere. Target shooting is an internationally recognized sport, and is included in both the summer and winter olympics. The NRA also supports the hobby of collecting guns of historical and cultural interest.
Topics that I have never seen in an NRA publication include: how to illegally acquire a gun, how to convert a gun to automatic operation, how to manufacture illegal ammunition, etc.
Re:Keep in mind (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:NRA deserves a little hubris (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:ACLU to help out? (Score:3, Interesting)
I can't find it now, but a few years ago I saw a web site with a photo of a Bill of Rights poster put out by the national-level ACLU. The Amendments were not numbered, and the Second Amendment was not on the poster! And IIRC they had split up one of the longer Amendments (the Fourth?) so it looked like two Amendments, so it wasn't obvious that there were only nine on the poster instead of ten.
While I was looking for that, I checked out the ACLU web site. They offer an "Illustrated Bill of Rights" poster. I can't find a big image, and it's hard to make out details of the little one, but I don't think the Second Amendment is on this poster either. (If you have seen this poster full size and can say for sure whether the Second Amendment is on there, please do!)
http://www.aclu.org/Store/Store.cfm?ID=92&c=5 [aclu.org]
Expect no help at all from the ACLU.
steveha
Re:Keep in mind (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Quote I heard from somewhere.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Here's another one along those lines:
"Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA. Ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State" - Heinrich HimmlerRe:Keep in mind (Score:4, Interesting)
Symantec has finally gone too far (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Keep in mind (Score:4, Interesting)
If you can give me a few statistics to make me believe that England has a higher homicide rate than DC then I will change my views accordingly. But having lived in London for some time, I am pretty sure that you will not find any such information.
Re:ACLU to help out? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Can We Say Liberals? (Score:2, Interesting)
But let me ask you one question: why does the U.S. have much higher murder and aggravated assault offences than any other Western (ie North American, Western European) nation? If not the huge number of firearms and their availability then there must be some other social factor at play, right?
I've asked that before and most responses I get are something along the lines of "cultural cohesiveness", or lack thereof. I can't really comment on that since I'm not American, and maybe I'm a little idealistic but I don't think it can be tacked up to racial issues.
First Product Activation, now Censorship (Score:2, Interesting)
Now comes Symantec's disregard for their customer's rights of constitutional knowledge, the rights to bear arms.
Since they're pretty much 0wn3d by Microsoft, will Linux sites be blocked next?
I will never patronize Symantec again.
Re:Hypocrites. (Score:2, Interesting)
What next, do they block the RNC or the DNC depending on the political persuasion of the CEO?
I wonder if they do block the libertarian party, anyone know?
One more reason not to use any symantic product (not that I need an excuse!)
Re:You're wrong (Score:2, Interesting)
Since you fouled the last one off so badly, want to try again? How can you claim that the word people, when used in the Second Amendment, means something totally different from its meaning in every other amendment? You cannot, logically. And before you trot out that old cannard about militia, note that the phrase containing militia is a subordinate clause; that means it is used to support the sentence. To be logically consistent, which is more than I expect, you would have to argue that the idea of free speech only applies to organized news agencies and that individuals have no right to express their opinions.
There was an interesting exercise done a few years back, where the word book was substituted for the word gun, and educated for armed. When you apply the arguments used against the second amendment to the revised one, you see how ludicrous they are and that the arguments are not about the meaning of the amendment but instead are about banning guns.
Getting back to the topic at hand, this is nothing but an underhanded attempt by Symantec to push a political agenda. The fact that it is done silently, and that CIPA mandates use of software like this, only makes it more offensive.
No, its *not* (Score:3, Interesting)
No, its not configurable; that's the point.
Good blocking software would allow you to view the list of sites being blocked and then enable individual sites or add your own.
No blocking software does this primarily because the only thing of value this software brings to the table is a list of objectionable sites.
Also Pro-Drugs and Anti-Drugs sites.. (Score:3, Interesting)
I also thing the sam thing goes for Pro and Anti-Drugs sites
Anyone have an objection to that ?
Same goes for Hacking Anti-Hacking, Porn & Fight-Porn sites ..
Why shouldn't Pro-Gun sites be classed as such ??
Re:ACLU to help out? (Score:4, Interesting)
Bull. It's been about power, who has it, and who wants it. Left/right wing has meant pretty much nothing in terms of who votes for what bill that infringes civil rights, except that the right wing will tend to fight for freedoms in certain areas that the left wing won't and vice versa. Neither will stand up for something like free speech if that gets in the way of some other agenda.
Re:protecting children (Score:2, Interesting)
The more I see of life the more I see apathy and it looks like 99% of the population doesn't really live in a waking state. They merely drift like automatons caught in a flow from one end of life to the other.
A non-US view (Score:4, Interesting)
Conversely, the Swiss are armed to the teeth and gun violence there is very rare. It's just that Anglo-Saxons will fight with whatever they've got - fists, knives or firearms - over pretty much any disagreement, but your average European will just make a rude gesture and forget about it.
I'm always amazed by how many posts gun stories attract on Slashdot though!
Re:THIS IS NOT "DEFAULT"! (Score:3, Interesting)