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IBM Adds SCO Counterclaim Charging Copyright Infringement 743

linuxjack55 writes "According to Yahoo! Finance, IBM has filed yet another counterclaim against SCO, this time claiming that SCO 'infringed IBM's copyrights by distributing IBM's contributions to Linux after SCO had violated its Linux license by claiming a copyright on parts of Linux.' Like it or not, it looks like the GPL is going to get a full vetting in this case. It is, however, nice to know that IBM's fire-breathing legion of IP lawyers is on the side of the GPL."
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IBM Adds SCO Counterclaim Charging Copyright Infringement

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  • by guacamolefoo ( 577448 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:14PM (#7066013) Homepage Journal
    IBM has the resources to make a test case of the GPL. I'm going to be very interested to see how this turns out.

    GF.
    • by Trigun ( 685027 ) <evil&evilempire,ath,cx> on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:18PM (#7066075)
      IBM does not have the resources to make a test case of the GPL. IBM has the resources to make this a slam-dunk that will make the O.J. Magic Mystery Tour look like a circus sideshow.

      Right or wrong, who cares. It's going to come down to who has the most cash.
      • by harlows_monkeys ( 106428 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:59PM (#7066575) Homepage
        Right or wrong, who cares. It's going to come down to who has the most cash

        So how come most of the trouble with software patents has come from small companies or even individuals with almost no money taking on big companies?

        According to your theory, Microsoft should have blown Eolas out of the water right from the start.

        • So how come most of the trouble with software patents has come from small companies or even individuals with almost no money taking on big companies?

          Because small companies are the actual innovative force in the technology industries and large companies simply rip them off. (Not that I think that all or even most patents are actually innovative.)
        • by hqm ( 49964 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @07:15PM (#7068779)
          Microsoft wanted Eolas to win. It means they have to close their browser down to third party plugins. It was probably worth $5 billion to them
          to lose that case. It means they *own* the desktop, and no one can accuse them of monopolistic practices if they close their browser up to any third party extensions.
          • by dfung ( 68701 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @07:59PM (#7069058)
            If I had points, I'd mod you up... When the big MS antitrust case was running, at the very beginning, I believe MS was trying to make a very specific point about the relationship of IE to Windows. MS was saying that their HTML rendering engine was a component of Windows (much like Gecko was the rendering component of Netscape) and that IE was a thin application shell that wrapped around that engine to create the behavior of a browser like Netscape. Other Windows applications can use that rendering engine, such as their help. So they could construct help files like web pages, but the app that you see them in is a help tool, not a browser.

            That architecture is different than Netscape who carried their own rendering engine along with many other components as a bundle in their app. That difference in architecture is where the rathole regarding "taking IE out of Windows" comes from - removing the shell (as the CMU prof demonstrated) is relatively trivial, but if you object to the presence of the rendering engine, then the removal of that is not only painful but breaks other parts of Windows such as help.

            Of course, it doesn't help that MS was also being an ass about this all.

            Netscape (actually, I think it's other plantiffs such as Sun's Java) would complain that their ability to interact with the interfaces of these internal components was disadvantageous vs. Microsoft's own access and ability to enact change in the interfaces.

            The remedy to this solution would have been hard to implement I think - you have to force Microsoft to publish and commit to a set of public interfaces and functionality, make them available to all comers, and create some mechanism through which MS can't have back-door entry. In practice, quite difficult to do, especially in areas like this, subject to significant evolution.

            Once again, it doesn't help that MS was being an ass about this too.

            OK, now flash forward to Eolas. For competitive reasons, MS got pulled into having plug-in interfaces. Later, they took the ball and moved it beyond where Netscape had already set it. Today, those public plug-in interfaces are the way that Real audio can be a pluggable replacement to Windows Media, or that Macromedia in some future Flash will become yet another option. Again, to a lesser extent, these kinds of plug in interfaces are what allows Sun to build a pluggable JVM (although I believe this is a pretty different mechanism).

            So, if MS decides to lose the EOLAS case, that pretty much gives them carte blanche to slam the doors through the existing public interfaces shut and switch back to proprietary interfaces of their own, and their own control. In Soviet Russia, you don't plug into the brower, it plugs in to you (sorry, couldn't help it)! In a post-EOLAS world, poor Microsoft can't publish an API that allows Quicktime or Flash or RealMedia to appear in a window because they can't afford the license. But that won't stop them from doing a non-infringing implementation of Windows Media will it?

            I think this is definitely NOT a case where the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

      • by Sevn ( 12012 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @03:10PM (#7066676) Homepage Journal
        Amen brutha. No matter what happens, it's going to be a hoot. Damn. I hope some smart bastard gets the movie rights. It would make an excellent mini-series starring:

        John Bobbet as Daryl McBride

        Giant Killer Robots With Nuclear Bombs For Balls as the IBM legal team

        Wilford Brimley as the caring and passionate Judge

        The cast of Friends as disgruntled Linux users

        Ryan Phillipe as the young Eric S Raymond during a flashback scene

        That chick from voyager as the evil SCO lawyer

        Danny Bonaduce as the hotdog vendor out on the street who has keen insight and good advice.

        And a cameo by Sean Connery as the old prison guard that comforts Daryl after his first pooper invasion in the prison scene at the end of the movie.
    • by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:22PM (#7066117) Homepage Journal
      I for one agree, as this is the first *real* case of the GPL/BSD type licenses, and its LONG overdue..

      But, this will either solidify what we are all doing, or kill us off....
      • This is not "the first *real* case of the GPL/BSD type licenses" as the two licenses are totally different. GPL is more restrictive.

        With a BSD license I can take the code, modify it, and sell binaries without providing source EVER.

        With the GPL I can take the source, modify it, and sell binaries. BUT I'll have to give up the source to anyone who asks for the source. I can only charge, at best, the cost of providing the source ($10 ship/handling).

        Try reading the licenses sometime.
  • by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:14PM (#7066022) Homepage Journal

    Ouch, the graph shows that SCO dropped ~15% since that news broke.

    Darl, I'll let you sleep on the couch in my basement. Note though that my cat is very fussy, you'll have to completely bury your turds in the litterbox or she'll get mad. Thanks, buddy!
    • by siskbc ( 598067 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:16PM (#7066047) Homepage
      Darl, I'll let you sleep on the couch in my basement. Note though that my cat is very fussy, you'll have to completely bury your turds in the litterbox or she'll get mad. Thanks, buddy!

      Darl's such a turd, your cat will try to bury HIM.

      • Darl, I'll let you sleep on the couch in my basement. Note though that my cat is very fussy, you'll have to completely bury your turds in the litterbox or she'll get mad. Thanks, buddy!

        Darl's such a turd, your cat will try to bury HIM.


        Already done... sort of. I was using pictures of Darl to train my cat to attack him, and the dumb cat ate the pages. After several hours of... processing, Darl re-emerged and was promptly buried. What's sad is that he was far more pleasant afterwards.
      • Darl's such a turd, your cat will try to bury HIM.

        In Soviet Ru... oh, nevermind.

    • Ouch, the graph shows that SCO dropped ~15% since that news broke.

      Yeah, they're only up about 1000% on the year! Seriously, though, stock price isn't a great indicator of SCO's fortunes - there is so little stock available to trade (7.5 million float, over 60% held by insiders and institutions) that it doesn't take much wind to blow this thing up or down.
      • by realdpk ( 116490 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:33PM (#7066289) Homepage Journal
        On the contrary, it's the ONLY indicator of SCO's fortunes, for they have no real/actual revenue (aside from the bullshit $699 licensing).

        However, it is VERY pleasing to see that it dropped so much so quickly after news broke. That means that people are still at least somewhat sane. They know there's very little propping SCOX up, and that any bad news could cause it to fall fast, so lots of people have set it to sell very quickly at even the most minor of price drops.
    • the CE Linux Forum [siliconvalley.com] and all of it's members: Sony, Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., which makes the Panasonic brand, Hitachi, NEC Corp., Sharp Corp., Toshiba Corp. -- as well as Royal Philips Electronics of the Netherlands and Samsung Electronics Co. of South Korea. At that point, SCO stock will hit 50. After Canopy leverages that to sell a lot of paper on other Canopy sub-companies and cash out a lot of positions, Darl and the other insiders will sell, sell, sell and cry boo-hoo all the way to the bank.
    • Darl McBride may be one. But what most upsets me is David Boies, the bigshot lawyer behind SCO, who has turned into one himself. And I quote from this article [com.com]:

      Boies also represented the federal government in its antitrust case against Microsoft, Al Gore in his attempt to win a favorable Florida ruling in the 2000 presidential election, and Napster in its fight to defend its online music-swapping business.

      I'm fine with the fact that you were a turd all your life and show it (Darl), but if you weren't and
  • I cant keep track anymore.
  • SCO responds. (Score:5, Informative)

    by eddy ( 18759 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:15PM (#7066035) Homepage Journal

    This just in [infoworld.com].

    Stowell disputed the idea that SCO could no longer distribute Linux. "We're the copyright holder for the core Unix operating system. If we want to charge someone a licensing fee for using our copyrighted software that's gone into Linux, then we have that prerogative," he said. "If we want to continue to distribute Linux to our existing customers, we can do that because we own the copyrights on that Unix software."

    I'll just let that... sink in.

    • Re:SCO responds. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by lobsterGun ( 415085 )
      Do they understnd the GPL at all?

      Do they understand the concept of ownership at all?

      Are they really claiming that just beacuse a program runs in Linux that it is automatically their property?

      • Re:SCO responds. (Score:3, Interesting)

        by garcia ( 6573 ) *
        blah blah blah and more blah.

        They have ignored the GPL from the beginning (and still are).

        None of their press releases have made any sense (we have tried to make sense out of them ourselves by wondering if they are trying to make money off the deal before the stock goes into deeper shit than it already is).

        They are claiming that Linux is their property because it is a derivitave work of their IP.
      • Re:SCO responds. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by rgmoore ( 133276 ) * <glandauer@charter.net> on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:59PM (#7066566) Homepage
        Do they understnd the GPL at all?

        No, they don't. But IBM does. There's a great quote from IBM later in the article:

        "The typical approach to indemnity, and apparently HP's approach as outlined in the press, we believe runs fundamentally counter to the Linux value proposition," Samson wrote. Because HP's indemnification is rendered void as soon as customers make modifications to the source code, "it will inhibit customers from taking full advantage of the open source development process," he wrote.

        That's a quote from somebody who genuinely understands the power of Free/Open Source software.

        It's pretty clear that IBM's lawyers get the legal aspects of the GPL, too. I remember hearing a story about IBM when they were first considering going into Free/Open Source software. IBM, being IBM, didn't want to get involved without understanding the legal issues, so they asked their lawyers to look over the GPL. The lawyers came back with the opinion that it was a well written legal document. Their business background meant that they didn't understand why anyone would want to release their code under the GPL, but they agreed that it actually would achieve its goal of keeping the source open. IBM never would have used GPLed software if they weren't quite confident that the license was sound.

      • Re:SCO responds. (Score:5, Informative)

        by kfg ( 145172 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @03:23PM (#7066818)
        The question boils down, at least in part, to what copyright they claim to be distributing their distro under.

        The distro has a license that may be unique and apart from the licenses of each individual file.

        If they distribute their distro under a blanket GPL license then yes, they are effectively charging a license fee for code they have no rights to even if a single line of that code does not belong to them and are thus in violation of the GPL for their entire distro. Every individual who has contributed code to that distro may sue them for license violation.

        How many people have contributed code to their distro? Richard Stallman, Bill Joy and Linus Torvalds, for starters, since it is a BSD/GNU/Linux distro. The entire KDE/Gnome teams as well.

        If they have not claimed GPL over the entire distro than they must enummerate those files which are under a different license and take care that all linking and derivitive works therein comply with any GPL licensed code.

        If they have not they are in violation of the GPL for each instantiation.

        If you right a VB app Microsoft may own the VB runtime, but they do not own your code as a derivitave work. You own that.

        SCO has effectively declared legal war on anyone who has contributed code to their entire distro.

        Fight back.

        KFG

    • Keep in mind that this is the same guy who said:

      "C++ is one of the properties that SCO owns today and we frequently are approached by customers who wish to license C++ from us and we do charge for that." March 4 2003

      No point in trying to argue with delusionals.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:37PM (#7066332)
      It is actually a brilliant move by IBM. Either of the following will happen:

      a) SCO says the GPL is valid and that they are free to distribute under the terms of the GPL - thereby making IBM's claim superflous AND also making Linux (and any theoretical infringing code therein) available to all users under GPL with no need of licensing from SCO.

      b) SCO says the GPL is invalid - thereby making IBM's couterclaim true - thereby making themselves subject to endless lawsuits for delivering code that they don't have a license to - thereby insuring the timely demise of SCO due to lack of legal funds.

      SCO can't win. They can't have it both ways. They are in a very bad legal quagmire.

      Paul Seamons
    • One of these days... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:46PM (#7066420) Homepage
      ...they're going to slip up and claim "If we want to continue to distribute Linux to our existing customers, we can do that because we own the copyrights on that Linux software.", because that's what they're implying to say.

      Now I haven't checked how many LOC Linux is, but the great great majority is NOT in any way copyrighted to SCO, even with their most absurd of claims. That means they need a valid licence to distribute Linux, and must abide by the terms of the GPL.

      This in particular includes paragraph 2b:
      "You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License."
      and 6:
      "Each time you redistribute the Program (...), the recipient automatically receives a license from the original licensor to copy, distribute or modify the Program subject to these terms and conditions. You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein.

      However SCOs rights may or may not have been violated, SCO has no right to violate the rights of all the honest contributors to the Linux kernel. Their right to compensation comes from the legal system, not by stealing back. "Some of you (OSS developers) took our code and illegally licenced/distrbuted it, now we'll take yours and do the same!"

      That's what their claiming. Not even that their the same people. It's like claiming "Well this one black guy punched me once, so now it's my right to punch any black guy I feel like!" That argument is only for the press - they'd be torn to pieces for it in court.

      Kjella
    • Re:SCO responds. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by kfg ( 145172 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:55PM (#7066531)
      Indeed, one wonders how SCO acquired the rights to distribute any code I may have contributed to their Linux distro (note that this is a broader field than just "Linux")when I have no contractual obligations to transfer rights to SCO.

      One wonders exactly which files they claim ownership of, and even if they refuse to identify specific lines of code that they believe are theirs they should be required to at least identify the files they are charging a license fee for before they can collect any money. That's basic contract law.

      "Give us some money."

      "What do I get?"

      "We can't tell you. Ha, ha, ha!"

      Right Sparky. Blow me.

      If you have written a single line of code that is being distributed in a file that SCO is charging a license fee for and are under no contractual obligation to transfer rights of derivitive works to SCO, even if they do own the core operating system code they are still violating your license on your IP.

      By law derivitive works belong to the actual author.

      I wonder what would happen if everyone who has contributed legitimate code under the GPL to SCO's distro were to each file a suit for violation of their license terms?

      More than wonder, I highly recommend it.

      If you represent yourself pro se it will cost you some time, some stationary and the filing fee.

      It will cost them a lawyer to respond, for each individual case.

      Make the bastards bleed from one thousand little legal cuts. Even the expense of that many band-aids and bactine will hurt.

      KFG

  • I swear, if this ever proceeds to court, I fully believe Darl McBride will be wearing Depends.

    How charming to think that the lying, snivelling legal lapdogs at SCO are going to get the Big Blue treatment.

    Thanks Big Blue!
  • Duh...... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by phunhippy ( 86447 ) * <zavoidNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:15PM (#7066038) Journal
    It is, however, nice to know that IBM's fire-breathing legion of IP lawyers is on the side of the GPL."

    yesh because with all the work IBM has done with linux in the past short years they obviously have no vested interest in making money off the GPL or linux(or GNU/LINUX or SCO/GNU/LINUX, whatever you want to call it).

    this trial should prove to be interesting as long as it doesn't drag out for 5 years
    • Re:Duh...... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by grub ( 11606 )

      should prove to be interesting as long as it doesn't drag out for 5 years

      It won't. SCO will go belly up long before that.
    • Re:Duh...... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by LWATCDR ( 28044 )
      yesh because with all the work IBM has done with linux in the past short years they obviously have no vested interest in making money off the GPL or linux(or GNU/LINUX or SCO/GNU/LINUX, whatever you want to call it).

      What is wrong with that? Why is it bad if someone makes money from doing work? IBM does a lot of work makeing Linux better. They support and follow the GPL. They spend there money defending the GPL. Let's see.

      1. write free software
      2.???? No wait I got it, sell support for the free software an
  • No (Score:5, Interesting)

    by brlewis ( 214632 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:15PM (#7066043) Homepage
    The GPL will only get a full vetting when it goes to court. SCO will never let this case see a courtroom.
    • Re:No (Score:3, Interesting)

      by gl4ss ( 559668 )
      so.. they're going to do what exactly?

      settle for measly pennies out of court? would ibm want that, or what good it would do for ibm to settle for measly pennies, and pennies paid to who?

      they might realise that sco's claims have gone so far that settling the case(one way or another) wouldn't make as much sense as beating them silly in the courtroom would(because they need that for credibility and as a predecent and a warning against other silly idiots who might try the same).
    • by siskbc ( 598067 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:21PM (#7066108) Homepage
      The GPL will only get a full vetting when it goes to court. SCO will never let this case see a courtroom.

      They can't make IBM dismiss the counterclaim. Unless they go bankrupt or something, this is probably going to court - I think IBM doesn't want this sort of thing to happen again, and it appears SCO will be made an example/bitch.

    • Re:No (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Eric Damron ( 553630 )
      Oh, but they may not have a choice with all of the counter suits that are going to come their way.

      They can't just dismiss IBM's lawsuit and every single person who has contributed code in the version that SCO is distributing has valid grounds for a lawsuit. SCO could conceivably face hundreds of lawsuits. They will not be able to unilaterally dismiss all of the lawsuits and I doubt that their pockets are deep enough to settle out of court with everyone who will hopefully file a copyright infringement law
  • Pump and dump now! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by hackstraw ( 262471 ) * on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:16PM (#7066045)
    This press release was 11:48, and look at SCO's stock drop [yahoo.com].

    Its interesting that IBM is getting behind the GPL, but I do think that this suit is just a press release, and I would be very supprised if it ever made it to court. If it were the case that Linux has SCO IP in the kernel, then IBM's case would have no merit. Also, I do not see where SCO is even in violation of the GPL. IBM says:

    SCO violated the general Public License under which Linux is distributed. The GPL requires Linux distributors to permit customers to freely copy the software.

    SCO's binary runtime license says nothing about source code nor distribution.
    • by warmcat ( 3545 ) *
      The GPL requires Linux distributors to permit customers to freely copy the software.

      During your holiday on Mars, SCO insisted that every Linux user must pay SCO ~$700 for the fantastic yet undefined SCO IP in Linux. That's where SCO slightly deviated from the "freely copy" bit.

      IBM rock and SCO paper.
    • by pavera ( 320634 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:25PM (#7066181) Homepage Journal
      By distributing the source code or a binary version of the kernel you would be requiring the person who received the kernel from you to pay SCO $700. That is a violation of the GPL, no code can be under the GPL that requires a license fee to be paid. By distributing code under the GPL you forego your rights to charge a license fee for your IP. Hence if SCO knowingly distributed their Unix IP under the GPL they gave up their right to charge for it. the fact that they've been distributing the kernel since after they filed the lawsuit means that they are knowingly distributing their IP under the GPL, and hence cannot charge a fee for it. Doing so violates the GPL and allows *every* contributor to the kernel who owns a copyright in the kernel to sue them for violation of the license.
      • by William Tanksley ( 1752 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:45PM (#7066410)
        This is either slightly confused or slightly confusing, but essentially true. Let me reword it a bit and see if we agree.

        Hence if SCO knowingly distributed their Unix IP under the GPL they gave up their right to charge for it. the fact that they've been distributing the kernel since after they filed the lawsuit means that they are knowingly distributing their IP under the GPL,

        No, their claim is that they're distributing their IP under their own license, and since their IP is entangled with the Linux kernel they're also distributing the Linux kernel under the GPL with some added restrictions.

        THAT is where they get in trouble. Nobody cares how they license their own IP, or whether it's mixed in with Linux; the problem here comes when they slap their restrictions on other people's code in violation of the other people's licenses.

        the fact that they've been distributing the kernel since after they filed the lawsuit means that they are knowingly distributing their IP under the GPL, and hence cannot charge a fee for it.

        But they're not distributing it under the GPL -- it's under the GPL plus their own license. Again, the error wasn't distributing their *own* code; they have every right to do that, even under an impossible license. The error is distributing other people's code in violation of copyright.

        Of course, they can fix this in a heartbeat -- just take their FTP server down.

        Doing so violates the GPL and allows *every* contributor to the kernel who owns a copyright in the kernel to sue them for violation of the license.

        And now, we're back in agreement. :-)

        Of course, the judgement would be for pennies; most of the people involved lost nothing due to SCO's infringement. The loss is due to other things, such as their libels.

        -Billy
    • by gr0nd ( 128937 )
      From the GPL:


      6. Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the
      Program), the recipient automatically receives a license from the
      original licensor to copy, distribute or modify the Program subject to
      these terms and conditions. You may not impose any further
      restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein.
      You are not responsible for enforcing compliance by third parties to
      this License.

      They have annouced they are selling/requiring licenses to GPL covered code.

      A

    • by Eric Damron ( 553630 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:52PM (#7066488)
      "If it were the case that Linux has SCO IP in the kernel, then IBM's case would have no merit."

      No, no, no. You miss the point. IBM has contributed a lot of it's own code that SCO could not possibly have claim over. These are two different issues. Further, everyone who has contributed any code that SCO distributed has had their copyright violated by SCO. And I'm not just talking about the kernel. Any applications that are GPL'd that SCO distributed with its distro. as well.

      SCO = TOAST
    • by pyrrho ( 167252 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @03:05PM (#7066626) Journal
      I see 12 replies, so maybe this will be redundant.

      The thing is, the GPL says you cannot have royalty generating IP in a GPL covered product. When SCO found out their IP was in there, they had to remove it. They had to RECALL IT! That's right, they had to recall their shipped copies of linux, not because their customers had no right to SCO IP, but because they don't have a right to everything else. E.g. you can't have GNOME because you have that under GPL, the violating IP means you don't have the GPL, and therefore SCO can't ship linux because of all the IP in there that does not belong to them. Of course the best example is not GNOME, but the parts of the kernel that are comingled with supposed SCO IP.

      So when SCO indemnifies SCO Linux customers, they were saying SCO wouldn't sue them, but in reality, IBM now can! Those customers are using IBM IP without a license (because the GPL doesn't apply while SCO's royalty generating IP is in there with it!)
      • by naarok ( 102579 )
        Actually, my understanding is that nothing in the GPL prevents you from having royalty generating IP in a GPL covered product.

        The GPL says that when you distribute the code via the GPL, you can not require additional restrictions along with the GPL in that distribution. (I'm not talking linux distributions (eg. Suse, Slackware), but the more general give something to someone else)

        This does not prevent you from also incorporating your code in a product that you license/sell/whatever so long as it is only y
  • by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:16PM (#7066048) Journal
    ..nice to know that IBM's fire-breathing legion of IP lawyers is on the side of the GPL

    No, IBMs lawyers are quite decidedly on the side of IBM. If IBMs linux experiment fails, all bets are off.

    I still remember when IBM was the big evil. I remember the geeks cheering when MSFT crushed OS/2 to secure Windows' place on the desktop. Hooray! No more IBM monopoly!

    That is, of course, not to say that I dont find every bit of minutia about this nerd hissy fit absofuckinglutely enthralling.
  • by ryan76 ( 666210 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:16PM (#7066049)
    I am almost positive SCO has violated several IBM patents on FUD.
  • by GrouchoMarx ( 153170 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:16PM (#7066050) Homepage
    It is, however, nice to know that IBM's fire-breathing legion of IP lawyers is on the side of the GPL.

    The company that is known for having more patents (hardware and software) than any other company in the world is now the poster child for and the paladin of those who believe such patents to be immoral in the first place.

    Satire is dead! Reality is so much weirder.
    • Except the objections are to patents that are a) trivial and b) abused. While IBM's may be trivial, they are definitely not abused. This is the first time I can remember hearing about IBM using them, which seems to say that IBM believes they shouldn't be used except to take out kamikaze lunatics like SCO that threaten the entire industry.

  • by Demona ( 7994 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:16PM (#7066056) Homepage
    From We Love the SCO Information Minister [welovethes...nister.org]:

    "I think this [website] comes from a few individuals in the open-source community, which tends to paint a bad picture of the community as a whole. I think most in the open-source community are good, hard-working developers that want to create some great things. It's unfortunate that a few bad apples spoil the image of the whole group." - Blake Stowell, September 25 2003 [techtarget.com]

    Thanks to SearchEnterpriseLinux for their coverage, but we must disagree with the statement that our site "excerpts several comments SCO officials have allegedly made about Linux during the past year or so." None of these comments are "allegedly" -- they're 100% verifiable fact, statements made in front of God and everyone...which is the point of providing links, so the reader can check the full original context. Of greater significance is the assumption that our creation must be motivated by anger; since we don't know Darl personally, our feelings could best be described as "affection". Like Saeed al-Sahaf, McBride proves that "truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense." With his rampant contradictions and defiance of all logic, he provides us with the finest gift of all -- the gift of laughter. Rather than provide needless attempts at witty commentary, we prefer to let his statements speak for themselves.

    Stowell and company should recognize WLTSIM as being far less hostile to them than their own crude propaganda [kuwan.net] was to the Linux community.
  • by gilesjuk ( 604902 ) <giles.jones@nospaM.zen.co.uk> on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:18PM (#7066074)
    SCO thought IBM would give in early on but this hasn't happened. They're trying to come up with as much ammunition as possible but ultimately I think they're giving other people plenty to to shoot back at them.

    Hopefully other contributers to the kernel will start suing them too.
  • by Rick.C ( 626083 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:20PM (#7066092)
    There are in fact only 16 of them, but they multiplex into a virtual legion of 4096.
  • Correction (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:21PM (#7066111)
    IBM's fire-breathing legion of IP lawyers is on the side of the GPL.

    (1) It's IBM that's on the side of the GPL. It's fire-breath lawyers are on the side of whoever pays them.

    (2) IBM is on the side of the GPL because they don't have much of a choice : they don't really have an OS of their own, and they had already invested millions in promoting Linux before this whole SCO idiocy.

    This said, if IBM's lawyers reckon the GPL is a tool worth using in court, then you can be pretty sure it's a solid license, which is good news for the rest of us (read: IBM's money has paid for a very thorough review of the GPL for the rest of us. Thanks guys!)
    • Re:Correction (Score:5, Insightful)

      by RevMike ( 632002 ) <revMike@gmail. c o m> on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:37PM (#7066330) Journal
      IBM is on the side of the GPL because they don't have much of a choice : they don't really have an OS of their own, and they had already invested millions in promoting Linux before this whole SCO idiocy.

      They do have an OS of their own. In fact the have more than one. They have OS390 and AIX.

      What is really happening here is that IBM missed the last paradigm change. When the PC market exploded with quality clones, IBM was always 6 months late and $1000 too expensive. IBM didn't manage to bring a really respectable PC product to market from the tim eof the IBM AT until the first ThinkPads hit.

      The reality is that there isn't much money in either PCs or OS and Application Development. The real money is in enterprise hardware and consulting services. As long as the linux market continues to grow, IBM Global Services is sitting pretty doing implementations.

    • IBM and their firebreathing lawyers are on the side of the GPL because it's good for business.

      IBM has worked long and hard to prove it's a friend of the open-source community.

      This isn't as a charity act. They're doing this because open source advocates are influential in many large hardware and software purchases around the world [com.com]

      Because IBM thinks this community is infl

    • Re:Correction (Score:5, Informative)

      by pavon ( 30274 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:49PM (#7066466)
      Thats right, IBM [ibm.com] has not [ibm.com] a single OS [ibm.com] of their [ibm.com] very own [ibm.com] :)
  • by ron_ivi ( 607351 ) <sdotno@NOSpAM.cheapcomplexdevices.com> on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:22PM (#7066118)
    So to summarize:


    IBM: "Free software wants to be free."

    HP: "Pay us because free software is scary."

  • by Pembers ( 250842 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:22PM (#7066123) Homepage

    Chart. [yahoo.com] As I write this, it's down nearly $3, or 17%, on yesterday's close. McBride and his cronies have less than an hour before the markets close to innovate another press release to try to pump it back up again. Grab some popcorn - this is gonna be fun.

  • by kuwan ( 443684 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:22PM (#7066125) Homepage
    eWeek has an interview [eweek.com] with Ransome Love, the former CEO of Caldera/SCO where he comments on SCO's current lawsuit and what Caldera's intentions were when they purchased the Unix source from the original SCO.

    Some interesting bits of information are that Caldera originally wanted to open source the Unix code they had purchased and that Ransom Love sold all of his shares in SCO when they announced the lawsuit with IBM.

    Here's a nice quote from Love: "I don't believe that the suit is good for the company or Linux."
  • by Chordonblue ( 585047 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:24PM (#7066162) Journal
    SCO will most definately have to follow up IBM's news with some sort of 1984-ish FUD. Sort of like this stuff:

    "Big news! More companies than EVER are purchasing our licenses!"

    "You should see our new version of UNiX - it's got SAMBA!"

    "All your Linux are belong to us..." etc...

    After an annoucement like this, they're going to have to come up with some huge Newspeak-like announcement to get that stock price back up - and quick. Wait for it, Darl can't possibly shut his mouth now.

    All we need now are reassurances that all goes well on the Malabar front...

  • heh (Score:3, Funny)

    by Tumbleweed ( 3706 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:25PM (#7066177)
    And you thought the Battle of Helm's Deep was massive. I'd rather have a bunch of Uruk-Hai after me than IBM lawyers. *shudder*
  • Groklaw (Score:3, Interesting)

    by astroboy ( 1125 ) <ljdursi@gmail.com> on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:27PM (#7066209) Homepage
    As always, Groklaw [groklaw.com] has some excellent commentary on this, including a link to a fascinating Interview iwith Ransom Love [eweek.com] inteview about the whole SCO fiasco.
  • by GillBates0 ( 664202 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:29PM (#7066227) Homepage Journal
    According to the memo, which was obtained by The Wall Street Journal, the new counterclaim charges that SCO infringed IBM's copyrights by distributing IBM's contributions to Linux after SCO had violated its Linux license by claiming a copyright on parts of Linux.

    The memo failed to state however, that the counterclaim was the latest strike in what IBM calls "it's long term plan to kick SCO's big'n'salty donkey balls".

  • by i_want_you_to_throw_ ( 559379 ) * on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:30PM (#7066241) Journal
    At some point the GPL was going to have to be tested in a court of law. Thank you SCO for what is sure to be a slam dunk. Congratulations to those who are now successfully shorting SCOX.
  • by oni ( 41625 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:30PM (#7066250) Homepage
    Do you hear that Mr. McBride? That is the sound of inevitability.

  • by gvc ( 167165 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:31PM (#7066257)
    I know that all of SCO's statements have been, shall we say, disingenuous, but Stowell's comment today, if quoted accurately, is the clearest lie I have yet seen issued from an officer of that company:

    "If we want to continue to distribute Linux to our existing customers, we can do that because we own the copyrights on that Unix software."

    cf. Infoworld [infoworld.com]
  • GPL: It's the law (Score:3, Informative)

    by vinsci ( 537958 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:33PM (#7066290) Journal
    Remember that the GPL has already been tested in court, and won [open-mag.com]?
  • by dillon_rinker ( 17944 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:34PM (#7066298) Homepage
    Seriously. Look here [slashdot.org].

    I will be insufferable for the rest of the day.
  • by CgiJobs ( 114410 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:36PM (#7066317)
    The claim also states "SCO has published false statements in a series of widely-distributed press releases ... as part of its bad faith campaign to discredit IBM's products and services in the marketplace ... IBM has suffered damages in an amount to be determined at trial."

    Hopefully, this will require SCO to reveal more evidence since IBM is claiming that SCO's current practices are causing damage. In related news, SCO stock continues to drift lower [yahoo.com] under heavy volume...

  • Who better? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by benploni ( 125649 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:36PM (#7066321) Journal
    If there were any company in the world you could pick to be the precedent-setting defender of the GPL who would it be? IBM would be my dream pick. This is very good news.
  • Brilliant strategy (Score:5, Interesting)

    by WCMI92 ( 592436 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:37PM (#7066331) Homepage
    Everyone is missing what this manuver does... SO far, SCO's ACTUAL FILED allegations are about a contract dispute with IBM.

    They keep making their copyright claims in press releases.

    By IBM introducing copyright violations into the suit themselves, THEY FORCE SCO TO RESPOND. Also, IBM can get the code that SCO claims is in Linux in the discovery phase.

    This thing is quickly going nuclear. I notice the stock's dump has started to level off, guess Melinda Gates is spending more pocket change...
  • by Error27 ( 100234 ) <<error27> <at> <gmail.com>> on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:42PM (#7066372) Homepage Journal
    The original response to SCO included 10 defenses and 10 counter claims.

    Adding another counter claim screws up the symmetry completely.

  • On Who's Side (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Goo.cc ( 687626 ) * on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:46PM (#7066421)
    "It is, however, nice to know that IBM's fire-breathing legion of IP lawyers is on the side of the GPL."

    No, they are not on the side of the GPL; they are on IBM's side. It just so happens that, currently, that IBM and the GPL have a common interest.

    And never forget the lesson SCO has taught us: the business that is your friend today (IBM) can be your enemy in the future (SCO/Caldera).
    • Re:On Who's Side (Score:3, Insightful)

      by flacco ( 324089 )
      No, they are not on the side of the GPL; they are on IBM's side. It just so happens that, currently, that IBM and the GPL have a common interest.

      uh, which is the definition of "being on the side of". no one said it was permanent.

  • by trybywrench ( 584843 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @02:54PM (#7066513)
    I hear there is a group of terrorists in FL holding a plane load of SCO lawyers hostage. They're threatening to release one every hour unless their demands are met.

    apologies to Kenneth Lay for stealing his joke.
  • Big Blue (Score:3, Funny)

    by Bendebecker ( 633126 ) on Friday September 26, 2003 @03:11PM (#7066681) Journal
    SCO: All your Linux belong to us.
    IBM: I'm in your face, suing your dudes...
    SCO: That's no fair!
    IBM: noob

    Yeah it's retarded but I am too damn tired to be funny.
  • by Tsu Dho Nimh ( 663417 ) <abacaxi&hotmail,com> on Friday September 26, 2003 @07:03PM (#7068720)
    The IBM steamroller just got on the fast track.

    Not only are they charging infringement of IBM's copyrights (several listed, with record numbers) they are asking for a declaratory judgement (another put up or shut up permanently request). Page 36 ...

    And on Page 37, IBM reminds the court that there IS a controversy between IBM and SCO on these issues. (SCO can't try to weeezle out of the request for declaratory judgement like they did RedHat's)

    SCO is SCOrewed!

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