Google Removes Links in Response to DMCA Complaint 495
dioscaido writes "If you search Google for Kazaa Lite, you'll find the results a bit lacking. Ironically enough, Sharman Networks, using the DMCA, filed a legal complaint to block Kazaa Lite sites. " Google links the DMCA request at the end of the results which contain the URLs in question, but the URLs aren't really the point. It's scary that the DMCA makes URLs a copyright violation. How long before libraries can't index books? Or own them?
DMCA ... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:DMCA ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:DMCA ... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:DMCA ... (Score:3, Interesting)
I guess its like how people suggest we should start using "libre" for Free Software to better differentiate it from free as in gratis software. I'm all for taking liberally from other languages when English isn't specific enough and another one is.
Re:DMCA ... (Score:2, Funny)
I live in Argentina... if that nonsense ever gets here, nobody will give a fuck.
The same thing that happens with stuff like taxes, traffic lights, etc.
Re:DMCA ... (Score:3, Informative)
Just do you google searches through a european proxy or something..
Re:Really? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Really? (Score:5, Interesting)
If your hosting is in the US... Well, then you're in a bit more of a bind. IANAL, but I'd suspect that while YOU are not liable, the American hosting company would be, and would be forced to remove the content from their servers.
Of course, surely you chose Canadian web hosting to keep your dollars in the country, no?
Ironic (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Ironic (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ironic (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Ironic (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Ironic (Score:3, Informative)
I believe it's a mod of OpenFT, though maybe by now they've integrated the FastTrack compatible code into the main fork.
So, in other words, you now really can use opensourced programs instead of Kazaa to connect to the same network.
Re:Ironic (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's why I say that:
Kaaza Lite was an attempt to "de-louse" all the spyware bundled up into Kaaza. If it was truly a piracy attempt (hijaacking someone else's code), they would have changed the name of the software and played things off like it was their own original work. None of this seems to be the case. In fact, every reference to Kaaza Lite I've seen makes it pretty clear that it, indeed, *is* the Kaaza software, except cleaned up so it won't fill your computer with unwanted "extras".
Re:Ironic (Score:3, Informative)
3.2 Except as expressly permitted in this Licence, you agree not to reverse engineer, de-compile, disassemble, alter, duplicate, modify, rent, lease, loan, sublicense, make copies, create derivative works from, distribute or provide others with the Software in whole or part, transmit or communicate the application over a network.
Kazaa Lite is a modified version, and thus not allowed to be distributed. They don't have to claim it's their own original work for it to be piracy.
Kazaa Lite is piracy. (Score:3, Insightful)
It would be like me distributing Linux with the GPL notices removed.
When you want somethin', and you don't want to pay for it...
What's funny... Read the complaint (Score:5, Insightful)
a. http://www.kazaagold.com
b. http://mp3download.com
c. http://www.kazaalite.tk
d. http://www.kaaza.com
e. http://doa2.host.sk
f. http://www.k-lite.tk
g. http://www.kazaa-file-sharing-downloads.com
h. http://www.kazaalite.nl
i. http://home/hccnet.nl/h.edskes/mirror.htm
j. http://www.kazaa-download.de
k. http://www.zeropaid.com
l. http//www.kazaalite.nl/downloads.htm
m. http://kazaa.infos-du-net.com
n. http://www.kazaa-lite.tk
o. http://www.kazaa-lite.info
Re:What's funny... Read the complaint (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Horrendously OT (Score:3, Insightful)
Slashdot lets you discuss, Google does not. It's not about forcing, it's about niether side being perfect. Slashdot's got a great discussion forum going, Google has more interesting nerd news without the Anti-MS, disgustingly pro-Mozilla bias.
Re:What's funny... Read the complaint (Score:5, Insightful)
What is interesting is that Google lists the sites that have been removed due to DMCA, yes. I first saw this in the case when the Church of Scientology tried to use DMCA to de-list pages critical to them.
The effect is precisely not what the people who invoked DMCA wanted to happen, though.
Google is basically saying "Okay, we would have shown you these sites, but we were told not to". And people are far more curious about seemingly forbidden knowledge =)
Let us rejoice that Google still can tell that the sites were censored and is not required to act ignorant ("DMCA-delisted site? Where? We have no DMCA-delisted sites here, no sir, and if we did, they would be, after all, delisted!").
Re:What's funny... Read the complaint (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What's funny... Read the complaint (Score:4, Informative)
Alltheweb [alltheweb.com] doesn't quite have a Google Groups [google.com] or a News Google [google.com] equivalent (only news search; no headline parser), but the regular search is pretty cool.
Re:Ironic (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Ironic (Score:5, Informative)
It may also explain why the latest release of KazaaLite is labelled "K++".
As Jonathan Swift said:
"So, naturalists observe, a flea
Has smaller fleas that on him prey;
And these have smaller still to bite 'em;
And so proceed ad infinitum."
Re:Ironic (Score:5, Insightful)
One obvious solution is to distribute a Kazaa Lite patcher that transforms a Kazaa into Kazaa Lite prior to installation. Now there is no copyright violation. Nobody is distributing even a patched version of Kazaa.
Name this patcher program something completely different, without the word Kazaa in the name to eliminate trademark claims. Word of the patch would still spread just as it did for Kazaa Lite, and spread by the same mechanisms.
Seems Overboard (Score:2, Insightful)
About the worst this can do is drive more people back to spy/adware-laden Kazaa.
Re:Seems Overboard (Score:2)
Priceless. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Priceless. (Score:5, Insightful)
If google decided not to cache any sites with the word 'kazaa' in it, I'm pretty sure that the users of it would find it anyhow, but the pointy haired suits at Sherman Networks would probably not find it as easely.
Sounds to me like they are shooting themselves in the foot.
Re:Priceless. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Priceless. (Score:4, Insightful)
There are a lot of interesting links between Google and the news media. Both present a great deal of information to the public, and both have a moral obligation to present the facts without bias or favor, even when they may have personal issues with it. Once the perception of impartiality is lost, the user can no longer count on reliable searches. If Google had taken some drastic action to score political points, I would have been inclined to find an alternative search engine.
Re:Priceless. (Score:4, Insightful)
Altavista [altavista.com] is now a pretty good search engine. Sponsored links may be annoying, but they are clearly marked and can be removed by a simple Proxomitron filter (remove all pairs that include "*Sponsored*"). I just may be as happy with it, as I was with Google.
Re:Priceless. (Score:4, Informative)
Google have done ok. They make sure that you know the search has been censored. The links that are missing are available via cut and paste. If you didn't know what the DMCA was before, Google link to a site which will tell you more than you wanted to know, and from a sceptical point of view.
Re:Priceless. (Score:3, Informative)
The site in question can ignore it, in which case Google does like in this case, removing the entry and providing a link to the details of the complaint.
However, if they site responds that they aren't infringing, Google will ignore the complaint and leave the site in search results, leaving it up to the two parties to duke it out with lawyers.
In ot
Re:Priceless. (Score:5, Insightful)
In the CoS/Xenu case, Google didn't stop indexing Scientology altogether; they just replaced the Xenu link with one to the DMCA notice. Following their own precedent, they have to do the same with Kazaa.
Google DID take revenge on scientology (Score:3, Funny)
strange... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:strange... (Score:5, Informative)
The act gives Federal jusidiction over "any civil action by an alien for a tort only, committed in violation of the law of nations or a treaty of the United States." The ATCA can be used via proxy by non-US entities as long as they can establish some reasonable connection to a US entity, such as relatives (in the case of people) or parents/subsidiaries (in the case of companies). Since copyright is covered in numerous treaties, particularly the Berne Convention, it is open season.
Sites still visible (Score:3, Redundant)
In the sponsored links too (Score:2)
The second "Sponsored link" is A bit of an oversight there I guess....
Re:In the sponsored links too (Score:2)
Methinks they're gonna have to work a bit harder at blocking it.
A bit lacking (Score:5, Funny)
Of course... (Score:4, Funny)
Incidentally, if you search Kazaa Lite for pretty much anything other than Top 40's Radio or pr0n you get similar results.
Not totally lacking... (Score:4, Funny)
Uhm? (Score:5, Insightful)
How long before libraries can't index books? Or own them?
Uhm, hasnt this already happened [upenn.edu] many [banned-books.com] many [georgesuttle.com] times in the past?
And Libraries can't own digital literature (Score:3)
This is one reason why the DMCA has to go.
And I'm just sure... (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh wait, check those searches [google.com] again, I just did a search and it seems the spiders haven't gotten word yet, this just goes to show that no matter how much you wanna censor, you can't censor it all!
Re:And I'm just sure... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And I'm just sure... (Score:5, Interesting)
The funny thing is, I noticed they demanded one additional site to be taken down, in addition to all the Kazaa Lite hosts: www.zeropaid.com [zeropaid.com].
I'm not sure what your definition of "valid" is, but I did a quick check over at the site, which is a file sharing news site, and there was no actual Kazaa Lite software onsite. Instead, the software download link pointed to one of the sites mentioned in the DMCA takedown demand. In other words, looks like they weren't just going after the biggest sites that had the software, but a site that even only linked to the software site. In otherwords Google had to remove a link to a link. I'd say that's going a bit far beyond what even the DMCA thinks is valid.
Watch this site for further info on this takedown (Score:5, Informative)
It's a good source for information on exactly this subject. No, I don't run it. ;-)
Same old same old (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:The DMCA Complaint... (Score:3, Interesting)
It would've been a LOT more fun had they actually linked them all...
Ironic (Score:5, Informative)
UK google (Score:2)
Are these international based Google's served from the USA?
Re:UK google (Score:2)
It's time to put the DMCA to FAIR USE (Score:4, Interesting)
Create a nice recording of some chimes, name it chimes.wav. Now, write letters to ISPs around the saying that someone with chimes.wav (a standard windows installed WAV file) is violating your copyright.
If everyone on slashdot sends a dozen bogus requests, all around the same time, and completely flood the ISPs and halt their ability to respond to these requests then I think we'd see finally see an uproar of the problems this bill causes.
The RIAA can send out bogus claims, why can't we help them make the DMCA so obnoxious that it must be stopped?
Re:It's time to put the DMCA to FAIR USE (Score:4, Informative)
You mean people still use kazaalite? (Score:3, Informative)
workd for me this morning
Libraries should pay royalties?! (Score:2, Interesting)
That is quite interesting question. Let's start to think about it.. Why should libraries have the right to loan copyrighted material such as books and audio CDs to people? People are not paying royalties to anyone when they read a book or listen to CD that is loaned from library. Isn't this wrong?
What would possess them to do this? (Score:5, Insightful)
It legitimizes the suit against them.
Think about it: in both Kazaa and Google, the method of infringement, if it exists, is the same: Allow search results that may or may not be pirated.
By basically validating the complaint against them, they allow RIAA to argue the same point very easily, except in this case it is a blood-thirsty industry group instead of a small computer company.
Oh, well... It doesn't matter, because the next filesharing tool will rise up fast.
Google is an 'enabler' (Score:3, Insightful)
Attacking Google is simply the next logical step, if one has already asserted the culpability of Napster.
However, I disagree with the idea that Sony is guilty of 'enabling' child pornography by making laptops and CD burners and camcorders. All are legitimate products turned to illegitimate uses. Just like Napster and Google.
And just like guns, for that matter. Suing gun manufacturers whenever someone chooses to turn a tool into the apparatus of crime is the same thing. And it's equally as wrong.
A side note about public libraries and such: I've never been able to reconcile my views on individual sovereignty and property rights in relation to public libraries and schools. Thomas Jefferson and I had the same problem.
An individual should not be forced to pay taxes to fund a program for the benefit of others. Yet an uneducated populace is an easy target for propaganda and dictatorship.
Of course, I won't take the time to cover the property rights of authors and publishers in regards to the free lending (which amounts legally to 'public display') of copyrighted material.
Re:Google is an 'enabler' (Score:4, Insightful)
Yup, he should...that's part of the social contract you sign up to when you decide to live in a society. You can always move off and become a hermit if you don't agree. It's harsh, but it is one or the other.
Not only that, but by paying for things like education, infrastructure and environmental programs you ensure that there is less crime, a road to travel to your work on and that you live in a place where the air is breathable...all things which directly affect you. And that is why the government is allowed to force you to pay...because otherwise you're enjoying the benfits which others are paying for.
Happened before (Score:2, Redundant)
IIRC Google took out the offending links, but inserted a link to the C&D order.
Google's downfall (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Google's downfall (Score:5, Interesting)
But it's still appearing in the Adwords!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
This is hilarious:
Before I even had a chance to scroll down the page to look at the DMCA message, I noticed that the Adwords are full of links to Kazaa Lite!
I guess Google's financial team is a little tougher than their search team.
Google for India also carries a DMCA notice. (Score:5, Interesting)
It is interesting to note that the version of Google for India also carries a DMCA notice for Kazaa Lite [google.co.in]. Does the U.S. government make worldwide law now? The DMCA is just a local law affecting less than 5% of the people in the world.
Re:Google for India also carries a DMCA notice. (Score:5, Funny)
Does the U.S. government make worldwide law now?
Where have you been for the past two years?
Re:Google for India also carries a DMCA notice. (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe google.co.in has to comply to DMCA rules because Google simply is an american company? That's part of doing busines in other countries; you have to comply to both your own country's laws as well as to laws applicable in the current country. I'd imagine non-US search engines with non-US hosted servers would point and laugh at the silly DMCA extortion and wait for the obligatory lawsuit instead.
There is still an issue here. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Google for India also carries a DMCA notice. (Score:4, Informative)
Put warning at TOP of search results. (Score:2, Interesting)
Works for me! (Score:4, Informative)
Oh, thanks, I wouldn't want to go to a bad site. (Score:2)
I'm sure there are many people who think that it was nice of the law firm to identify the best sites [chillingeffects.org] to download Kazaa Lite.
I searched for kazaa lite.. (Score:2)
How are the results lacking, precisely?
DCMA Gone too Far (Score:3, Informative)
2nd search result? (Score:2)
Anti SCO T-Shirts [anti-tshirts.com] donates to the Open Source Now Fund.
Meanwhile, outside Googleland... (Score:5, Interesting)
I have just tried Kazaa Lite on various other search engines and meta search engines, and without fail they return at least one of the forbidden 8 sites that Google removes:
Altavista [altavista.com]
Webcrawler [webcrawler.com]
Teoma [teoma.com]
Dogpile [dogpile.com]
Obviously not a comprehensive effort (I have a 3yr old son to entertain right now and that's much more important!), but it leads to the conclusion that either the complainant thinks the world revolves around Google OR the other sites haven't checked their mail yet!
As others have pointed out, the genie is out of the bottle and so semi-hiding the links is going to be pointless. I loved the written up DMCA complaint--putting the list of banned sites on it is kind of like having an English test question that says: Write down the correct spelling of following word: 'incomprehensible'? .
Ask the ACLU to Defend the Search-Engine Company (Score:2, Insightful)
Is the search engine technically violating copyright law? No. Is the search engine facilitating people who wish to violate copyright law? Yes.
Does "facilitation" constitute violation of the law? To look at that question. Let us look at another analogy.
A different perspective... (Score:5, Funny)
Summary:Kazaa C&Ds Google, because it's easier than tracking down all the offending sites and C&Ding them individually. The justification for the C&D - Kazaa Lite is illegal, Google is providing easy access to Kazaa Lite.
What if Google turned around and said, "Kazaa is using Google to facillitate tracking down sites infringing on its intellectual property. Please pay Google the following outrageous fee for legal research assistance."
In my opinion, C&Ding a search engine is like trying to have a municipality remove street addresses from buildings containing businesses you don't like. It's just stupid.
In the I'll play by the rules department (Score:4, Informative)
Score: Google 1
Kazaa 0
DMCA 0
Blue Ribbon (Score:5, Informative)
thought police (Score:5, Interesting)
In other news... (Score:3, Insightful)
To: Sharman Networks
To whom it may concern,
We are pleased to see others taking a stand against the providing of links to illegal versions of copyrighted works. We agree wholeheartedly with your stand that providing search results to copyrighted material is a criminal act. As someone who obviously upholds our philosophy we KNOW that you will be all too happy to remove from any search results that your software provides any links to dowloads of copyrighted works such as music, movies, other software and the like.
Thank you so much for proving our point!
IDIOTS!
Wow (Score:3, Funny)
Uhhh Google wins again... (Score:3, Informative)
Google: 1-0
Sharman: 0-1
Other languages. (Score:3, Interesting)
I know that there is nothing to stop people in the US from using foreign google searches but must the rest of the world be subjected to bad US laws?...
Re:Foreign Google (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Foreign Google (Score:2)
Aren't the servers in the US?
Re:Link is gone in Japan (Score:2)
Gee, since when did the DMCA apply in Japan?
uhh... it doesn't... even now..
So google should show such links in other countries that are not currently in the internet dark ages like the US is, and keep that country's problems out of here..
Re:The DMCA is not to blame... (Score:3, Insightful)
So looking at it that way, the DMCA is to blame, in this case.
Re:The DMCA is not to blame... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:So DMCA now applies in London? (Score:2)
Re:Irony (Score:2)
Re:Google 0wn3d by DMCA (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Google 0wn3d by DMCA (Score:3, Funny)
Re:So what do we do about it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, that's more a matter of opinion than a statement of fact. As far as we're concerned, yes, it is doing a great deal of harm. It is crippling free speech, killing innovation, and financially ruining good people.
However, to Corporate America (y'know, the guys who wanted it passed in the first place) it's everything they ever dreamed of and more. Their vision for America is different from ours. While we envision freedom, equality, and innovation, *they* envis
Ladies and Gentlemen... the Lawsuit People! (Score:3, Funny)
Good. I want to get the spelling right...