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The "Techie" Vote? 376

Posted by CmdrTaco from the they're-just-starting-to-get-it dept.
Ironica writes "This Los Angeles Times article discusses a compelling trend: techies are making their collective voice heard in politics. Quote from the article: "After years as political agnostics, the programmers and engineers who orchestrated the technological revolution of the 1990s are trying to reboot government...They have money, earned during the boom. They have time, found since the bust. And they are using their technological savvy to recruit even casual Internet users to their causes." Perhaps instead of "boxers or briefs," our next presidential candidate will have to answer "POP3 or IMAP?""
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The "Techie" Vote? More

The "Techie" Vote?

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  • This reminds me... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mjmalone ( 677326 ) * on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:13AM (#6674377) Homepage
    This reminds me of a recent article [reason.com] about an internet millionaire who is sueing the government regarding privacy issues while flying. I think it is great that we techies are finally getting a voice in the government. Hopefully some of the issues we have been worried about, (patents, trademark, copyright, privacy, etc.) will begin to change.

    • "We techies " (Score:4, Insightful)

      by turnstyle ( 588788 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:43AM (#6674606) Homepage
      Software millionares generally make their millions selling software.

      It's safe to assume that having millions puts you in a better position to influence government.

      Though P2P and GPL seem to be the battle cry, it's worth considering the potential of those systems to generate a new round of millionares who can, in turn, influence government.

    • Re:This reminds me... (Score:5, Informative)

      by GeorgeH ( 5469 ) * on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @09:28AM (#6675033) Homepage Journal
      That "internet millionaire" is John Gilmore [toad.com], co-founder of the Electronic Frontier Foundation [eff.org], which has been protecting techie rights from the get-go. If you're at all concerned about the stuff you mentioned (intellectual property issues, privacy...) you should consider sending them some money.

      • Re:This reminds me... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Dalcius ( 587481 )
        You know, I really life the EFF. Only the occasional email, and they make it absolutely painless to contact your representatives. Use their form letter or write your own. This is what many folks have asked for; you really have no excuse now.

        I'm really glad these folks are around.

        Now that I think about it, I think I'll log on tonight and donate a little change.

  • Makes me feel important (Score:4, Insightful)

    by henbane ( 663769 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:16AM (#6674398)
    Nothing like being patronised by the mainstream media to make people feel relevant.

  • Boxers/IMAP (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Trigun ( 685027 ) <evil@evileUMLAUTmpire.ath.cx minus punct> on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:17AM (#6674415)
    This is not a big news story. The internet has given everyone a voice, but those who know how to speak are genreally understood more readily.

    So we have this huge inter-connected network which spans the globe, now what do we do with it?

    Hey! Let's talk to each other!

    About what?

    Politics...

  • Nope (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The techie votes are/
    Emacs or VI
    Gnome or KDE
    Linux or BSD
    Gimp or Photoshop
    Slashdot or Fark.

  • Instant reponse (Score:3, Interesting)

    by darkmayo ( 251580 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:18AM (#6674419)
    Its good being apart of a group of people who can get in contact with each other alot faster than the non computer user. Allows us to rally, colaberate and plan things quicker better and more effectively.

    As well if we ever need to get names for a petition we just post in on /. or FARK and the names just roll in. :P

    • Re:Instant reponse (Score:5, Funny)

      by L. VeGas ( 580015 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:32AM (#6674522) Homepage Journal
      Allows us to rally, colaberate and plan things quicker better and more effectively.

      True, true. It always warms my heart to see so much cooperation among techies. Just look at any usenet group or irc channel! You can practically feel the love.

      • ...Just look at any usenet group or irc channel! You can practically feel the love.


        Ah! But are IRC and usenet populated mostly by techies or kids trying to look k33l? In any case, nothing can bring people together like a common enemy.

    • Yeah, but who's going to look twice at a list with names like these:
      darkmayo
      RhubarbCrumble
      Trigun
      1nihilis t1
      henbane
      hype7
      slackr
      CmdrTaco

      Yah there are better examples out there, I just didn't feel like looking for them.

      --

      Was it the sheep climbing onto the altar, or the cattle lowing to be slain,
      or the Son of God hanging dead and bloodied on a cross that told me this was a world condemned, but loved and bought with blood.

  • if only... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:18AM (#6674420)
    If this idea could work, don't you think the /. crowd would have mobilized years ago?

    the average techie, is lazy, speaking as an average techie myself.

    • Nope. We're too lazy (most of us) and need to be prodded repeatedly to do pretty much anything.

      Actions speak louder than words, but you'd never come to that conclusion from reading Slashdot :)
    • Hey! I resent th...

    • Re:if only... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anne_Nonymous ( 313852 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @09:14AM (#6674885) Homepage Journal
      We mobilized to b!tch slap specific spammers.
      We mobilized to protest Turbotax spyware.
      We mobilized to protest the "Patriot" Act.

      /.ers are probably never going to agree on a particular candidate, but that doesn't mean we don't attempt to change the world because of what we read here.

      • Re:if only... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by edunbar93 ( 141167 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @11:48AM (#6676688)
        We mobilized to b!tch slap specific spammers.
        We mobilized to protest Turbotax spyware.
        We mobilized to protest the "Patriot" Act.

        Yeah, and look at what we've got.

        An infinite number of spammers.
        Turbotax spyware.
        The Patriot Act.

        It's a pretty good indication that politicians don't give a tinker's damn about us, and we have about as much influence as ants on the sidewalk.

        I couldn't help but notice that we make up all of about 5% of the current Internet population, never mind the rest of the population.
    • - and in Europe it's called EDRi [edri.org]

      I think a lot of slashdotters are supporting one of these orgs, at least casually, or through some EDRi member.
  • Perhaps instead of "boxers or briefs," our next presidential candidate will have to answer "POP3 or IMAP?"

    How about white on black [geekgarb.com] or black on white [geekgarb.com]?

  • Larry Flynt and Mary Carey (Score:3, Funny)

    by elliotj ( 519297 ) <slashdot AT elliotjohnson DOT com> on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:23AM (#6674449) Homepage
    Perhaps instead of "boxers or briefs," our next presidential candidate will have to answer "POP3 or IMAP?

    Considering some of [worldnetdaily.com] the candidates [ainews.com], perhaps a more appropriate question would be "spit or swallow?"

  • I hope this will span out to other branches (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dodell ( 83471 ) <dodell@nOsPaM.sitetronics.com> on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:26AM (#6674466) Homepage
    Regarding the pointing out that the next president would need to answer "POP3 or IMAP?" --

    I hope that these "requirements" will span out to the judicial and legislative branches as well. It's great to have tech knowledge in the executive area; however, with all the (sorry for the cliche) checks and balances in place, this knowledge is moot without the knowledge in the judicial and legislative branches. For example, we're seeing many IP-related trials right now; while this knowledge could help bring about some of the changes we're hoping for in the TM/patent/IP fields, it will not help unless the knowledge is spanned out into ALL areas. We, as constituents, should not ONLY be lobbying the executive branch. We should be lobbying the others as well.

    Without the good of the others, there's really no point in the good of one.
    • This leads to a vote that I would like to see on Slashdot in the near future: one about who we are going to vote for in the next US presidential elections (also have an option: "I'm not a US Citizen you insensitve Clod").

      A previous comment mentioned that our views are too disperse to be anything of a "movement". I would tend to disagree with that and say that I think we do have quite a lot in common. Discussion is key.

  • "Boxers or briefs" (Score:4, Informative)

    by hype7 ( 239530 ) <u3295110@@@anu...edu...au> on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:27AM (#6674474) Journal
    Perhaps instead of "boxers or briefs," our next presidential candidate will have to answer "POP3 or IMAP?"


    This reminds me of a question that a kid popped Al Gore in the last election - Mac or PC. Gore dodged the question. Kinda funny seeing he's now elected to Apple's board :)

    Anyway, as for a techie vote, ha! Trying to get techs to agree on anything is always a challenge. How many flavours of Linux are there? And talking of flavour, how do we spell it again [slashdot.org]?

    -- james

    • Re:"Boxers or briefs" (Score:3, Informative)

      by frankie ( 91710 )
      Mac or PC. Gore dodged the question

      Not exactly; he was trying to be accurate. He really likes Macs, and is a personal friend of Steve Jobs. However, as vice-president he had to interface with a lot of Windows-only government systems, so he used a PC.

      Now that he's out of office, he's got a Mac again. Probably has some Wintels too.

  • Age is the key (Score:4, Insightful)

    by janfarrell ( 697370 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:27AM (#6674480) Homepage
    As any large and economically important collective, "Techies" have an influence in politics. As their experience, wealth, and age grows, so does their influence and interest in politics. Those important in Techie industry in the 1990s are now reaching an age where politics becomes atractive.

  • True, but... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by tds67 ( 670584 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:27AM (#6674482)
    ...discusses a compelling trend: techies are making their collective voice heard in politics.

    Yes, a little bit here, a little bit there, perhaps. Most techies don't talk directly about politics--they speak in code. Most have the drive to get involved, but when it comes right down to it, they act like mice. But they do monitor current trends, though. And when politicians make them angry, it does get filed in their memory, which is a key point to make here. Political shenanigans are a source of frustration for techies as well. Maybe it's time for techies to compile a list of good candidates that would be compatible with their viewpoints.

  • Techie Corporatism (Score:5, Interesting)

    by awol ( 98751 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:29AM (#6674495) Journal
    There is a school of thought that recognises corporatism as a means of influencing public policy (be careful when googling, this is _NOT_ about the role of corporations but the role of interest groups in public policy) by giving interest groups a role to play in the determination of public policy. An alternative view is the pluralist view that takes interest groups as combatants with the public policy makers trying to "win" concessions to their particular interest.

    It is clear that the techie vote will rise as the status quo proceeds to piss us off more and more (the size of the electorate in question is really pretty vast). But whilst that is interesting, it is reactionary, and by that very nature limited in what it can really achieve.

    What is interesting is the idea that bodies made up from within the technically educated will form and be _consulted_ about the formulation of public policy. In the US this is made more problematic by the nature of your "democracy" but in places like Europe, more and more more input from more and more credible tech groups (EFF, FSF for example) will only increase the likelihood that when it comes time to look at the next idiot DMCA debacle, these groups will be sounded out _before_ the policy is drafted.

    A good day indeed. Probably 5 - 10 years away unless some event occurs to precipitate the problem.
    • The problem is that the people-at-large are disinterested in public life & politics in general... look at the new trends in middle-class houses -- there is no side windows! Everyone wants to live in a personal castle.

      People send checks to be members in interest groups like the Sierra Club, EFF, and AAA. But that check is the sum total of their participation.

      The only people interested in politics are people with something to sell or something to keep.

  • We do? (Score:5, Funny)

    by numbski ( 515011 ) * <numbski.hksilver@net> on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:31AM (#6674509) Homepage Journal
    But that would insinuate we care enough to leave our homes and go to the polls! Wait, online voting systems are coming down the pipe!

    Err...wait, online polling systems aren't secure. I know! We can hack the polling systems to accomplish our goals!

    Pinky, are you thinking what I'm thinking?

    I think so Brain, but how you going to get Larry Flynt to strip for you at 2 a.m. on such short notice?

  • As a registered voter (Score:5, Insightful)

    by malus ( 6786 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:32AM (#6674518) Journal
    I'm going to be helping this former IT geek with his campaign:

    http://www.EmmonsForCongress.com:81

    this guy spent 18 years in the biz, only to have to train his 'less expensive' replacements.

    I'm sure I'll be in the same boat sooner than later, however, I refuse train anyone. If upper-manglement wants to replace me with some cheap labor, THEY can figure my code out.
    • As a registered voter, it is my right and resposibility to involve myself in the politcal process. I have every right to gripe, moan and complain about my government, my taxes and the Addiction World going up down the steet, two blocks down from...and Addiction World.

      Check one, two. I have that right and privilege as long as I protect it. Not with guns and violence, but by electing competent individuals as representatives. Not voting only makes it easier for the person you do not want to be elected. I
      • In my opinion, it all comes down to what you said, "responsibility" in the political process.

        I get into rant-fests with people from time to time about, "The Government is corrupt! Get these bums out of there!", and I can only reply, "the Government is YOU. It starts with YOU, and ENDS WITH YOU."

        Typically, I these people I argue with are not voters. The usual response to a question about why they don't vote is, "Because it doesn't matter." or something equally insane.

        My prime focus right now is, and I hat

      • Re:As a registered voter...rant (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Abm0raz ( 668337 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @11:58AM (#6676840) Journal
        I have that right and privilege as long as I protect it. Not with guns and violence, but by ...

        Actually, this is why the right to bear arms exists. So that if the Government becomes too corrupt and evil and starts to self-perpetuate it's own power, growing uncontrollably, the people can rise up and strike the gov't down. That is the beauty of the US constitution/bill of rights. It was a government that was designed to be overthrown.

        This could be extrapolated to current times. I can just see it now, a big red button in a glass case in every home with sign that says, "In case of excessive government corrupt, break glass and push button."

        -Ab
    • 1. The website doesn't seem to work right now

      2. Is there supposed to be something important about being in any industry for 18 that absolves you of existing with competition?

    • I just read this article [statesman.com], addressing exactly what you're talking about. Seems like it would be the kind of issue that would bring a lot of techies to the polls. It mentions toward the end about one guy beginning to lobby for changes in the visa laws.

    • The interesting thing about attempt to train a replacement is sometimes the replacement has no interest in the technology. They're working for the money. So training them properly becomes nearly impossible. And when they eventually do replace me it will no longer be my problem. :)

      I don't like working for the man anyway.

  • Ignore the votes and brownnose the USA government (Score:3, Interesting)

    by wadiwood ( 601205 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:32AM (#6674519) Journal
    At least that's what our Australian Federal Government is doing.

    And our tech minister (Richard Alston) is about as technically advanced as stoneage man. His idea of a reboot, is to kick his press secretary. His latest faux-pas is to deny responsibility for his own official website [dcita.gov.au] which cost megabucks [news.com.au].

    At least some techie is making money out of him somewhere but chances are, it isn't an Aussie. Dammit.

  • This gets one thinking... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by NeB_Zero ( 645301 ) <nebzero AT gmail DOT com> on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:33AM (#6674529) Journal
    This makes me think that maybe the techies/geeks SHOULD band together (with groups like the EFF [eff.org]) to shape tech legislation and stop this government from taking away our personal freedoms, like routers, NAT, firewalls, and encryption.

    Just a thought I've had for a while now.
    • ...band together. I have to say I was a little bit shocked to find out that the EFF only had 8500 members. Is that the best we could do? Are there only 8500 people who care about the fate of the 'Net? And the story for free software is even more sad. How many people here run Linux or Apache or Mozilla or OpenOffice or other free software? I'd bet Slashdot is coming close to having over 50,000 comments on the SCO debacle. And yet the FSF has only ~1,000 associate members [fsf.org]. It's almost depressing.

  • Nah. (Score:2, Funny)

    by Black Parrot ( 19622 )


    > Perhaps instead of "boxers or briefs," our next presidential candidate will have to answer "POP3 or IMAP?"

    No, the difference will show up when some sexual indiscretion is discovered, and the usual "Who?" will be replaced by a geeky "How?"

  • The real debate... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Whispers_in_the_dark ( 560817 ) * <rich.harkinsNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:35AM (#6674542)

    Perhaps instead of "boxers or briefs," our next presidential candidate will have to answer "POP3 or IMAP?"

    No way. We need to resolve the whole "vi" vs "emacs" issue first. After that, "tabs" vs "spaces", then the whole issue of placement of braces (not to mention brace-less languages like Python). After all thats settled then maybe we'll be ready for email transport preferences if the browser wars don't flare up again first.


    • "then the whole issue of placement of braces (not to mention brace-less languages like Python)"

      Just use Lisp, then you will only have to worry about Lots of Insipid and Stupid Parentheses.

  • As /. has clearly shown (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sielwolf ( 246764 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:37AM (#6674562) Homepage Journal
    The tech community is a fractious bunch and thus completely useless as a political group. Why? Because "Speciality in IT" != Any political agenda. The camps of liberal, conservative, and libertarian thinking are wide and diverse. Hell, look at any thread on the RIAA. Probably the only platform all tech folks are for is rational copyright law (i.e. showing SCO who's the daddy). But other than that, there is no cohesion.

    There's a reason why police unions, the AFL-CIO, and the Christian Right are all strong forces: they have a complete package of beliefs that they can get a large body of voters to agree on. Religion? Government? Taxes? The tech community could never get such a gestalt.

    I think it is one of the great tech-urban legends that IT is a uniformly liberal RMS-style social group or ever was.

    • Re:As /. has clearly shown (Score:5, Interesting)

      by goldspider ( 445116 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:52AM (#6674667) Homepage
      Most insightful; hope you get a +5 out of that one.

      One other point I wanted to bring out is that the "geek" voting block is largely young men between the ages of 18 and (wild guess) 30. Historically, this has been a rather weak age group when it comes to voting, and that's why politicians generally pay less attention to them and their issues versus seniors.

      And as much as that may be changing, and younger people are taking more interest in politics, politicians may still shy away from them because of the nature of the activist IT movement.

      Be honest folks. As well-intentioned as many of our views are, a lot of them reek of communism. Now I'm not saying that's necessarily the case (though for a sizeable portion, I would say it is) but some of the extremist ideas that are frequently explored on sites such as Slashdot are based on ideas that got people tossed into jail during McCarthyism.

      And a lot of people who vote still remember that. Although many of our politicians seem to be leaning leftwards towards socialism, I don't think many of them want to yet be associated with some of the ideals expressed by the IT community.

      Take it as it is. If you disagree, explain your side of the story.

      • Re:As /. has clearly shown (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Liquorman ( 691815 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @09:19AM (#6674947)
        I am not sure about the age range of the supposed geek vote, but I would put the upper limit higher by at least 10 years. (Don't discount us old geeks!) I believe that you are correct in general that it skews slightly young.

        I also agree that many pols pay less attention to the younger demographic. However, this is at their own expense. Bill Clinton played to this demographic (MTV/Arsenio appearences) and they in large part supported him and helped him win two elections.

        I also agree that much of the general population see geeks as, at best, smart weirdos; to be tolerated for their techie ability. This does not bode very well for support of a "geek agenda", if indeed there even is such a thing.

        I think that the real story is the ability of technology to allow casual computer users the oportunity to have a voice, regardless of their political leanings. I have many non-geek friends who respect the internet as a tool for grass-roots sharing of ideology and a way to get many points of view that are outside of the corporate side of politics. This may be a more leftist idea by nature, but the technology is non-partisan.

      • Just out of curiosity .. (Score:3, Insightful)

        by cje ( 33931 )
        .. what are some of the "extremist ideas that reek of communism" that are "frequently explored" on Slashdot? From my experience on Slashdot, there are just as many right-wing zealots here as there are left-wing zealots. For every person espousing (for example) a completely public government health care system, there's another person arguing (for example) that we ought to end income taxes and all entitlement programs. It all goes back to the original point: the "tech community" has no coherent political agen

      • Good points, good post, but I'm not sure I can agree with your OSS/Communism association. There is a growing and maturing OSS industry which is built on a much more productive model (customers hire experts to implement/extend/develop OSS) than the regressive incumbent model (productized software designed with the goal of enhance profits over quality).

        In previous conversations, I've heard it compared to the medical industry: 50 years ago we had a model where individual private-practice doctors were the

        • For the most part, I agree with you. Your analogy with the healthcare industry is right on the mark. I'll admit I never thought of it that way, and I have a new perspective on OSS that I didn't have before.

          However, there are a lot of people out there who aren't content with just creating quality software to freely distribute. That part I am very much in favor of, because it gives people inexpensive alternatives to commercial software.

          But there are those who, IMHO, take that sentiment too far. They b

      • As well-intentioned as many of our views are, a lot of them reek of communism.

        Study your political philosophy! Those well-intentioned "communist" ideals are more accurately categorized under classical anarchism than communism. The anarchists broke with the early Marxist movement because they were strong civil libertarians and could not put up with the Dictatorship of the Proletariat (it was an anarchist who originally warned of the dangers of the Red Beuracracy). Sharing is good, but it must be volunta

    • Re:As /. has clearly shown (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:53AM (#6674676)
      That is a good point. I found their political directions they lean are just as diverse as the field they work in. As I work in the commercial industry in a small business, I tend to be more conservative and lean to the right, because the conservative method is best for my personal economy. While other tech who work for education or government or other Non-Profit Organization tend to lean more to the Left because that side helps their personal economy. IT is a diverse field and there are people working with IT in all areas work so we will naturally be as diverse as everyone else. But the fact that we are being more politically active is a good thing. It make sure the elected government officials listen to our ideas and try to appeal to us, because although we are diverse we have a lot of shared ideas that the politions should try to appeal. So if we all become active it would be us and the elderly.
    • Just because something is an "urban legend" or common knowledge, doesn't mean it's not true. In the early days of the tech booom, most propellor heads were liberal, for three main reasons:

      1. Many were college students. Most college students are liberal.

      2. Most were young. Most young people are liberal.

      3. RMS and associated philosophies were very outspoken and influenced the geek community.

      Now that they / we are older and have more money, there has definitely been a shift to the middle and to the right.

    • Screw all that... (Score:4, Funny)

      by Dog and Pony ( 521538 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:54AM (#6674682)
      We want jobs, dammit! ;-)

    • While it is true that the tech community could never agree on taxes and religion I don't think it is that important. We can demand that politicans address issues that we think are important just like they do for the Christian right and big labor. There is never going to be a big Slashdot party to run against the republicans, but we can make them take our position seriously.
    • So? First off, what's to keep us from forming several different special interest groups based on our diverse political leanings? Each with a geek focus, of course. Secondly I believe there are more things than 'rational copyright law' which cross the geek political spectrum; for example privacy issues.

      Besides, as /. has also clearly shown, on the balance geeks tend to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative -- with a wide streak of 'leave me the hell alone' onryness. Generally that would describe a L
      • The problem with a half dozen individual groups is that they are then useless for politicians. If you can only count on them voting for you on a single issue and they become fractious everywhere else, they have no powerbase.

        If you're only going to support McCaan on his anti-trust agenda and ignore him on everything else (and not vote for him since you only care about one of his fifty issues), he's not going to give two shits about what you think.

        The reason why "police unions, the AFL-CIO, and the Christi

  • This isn't going to work (Score:3, Insightful)

    by TerryAtWork ( 598364 ) <research@aceretail.com> on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:39AM (#6674579)
    The suits trying to steal the internet (after letting it get away from them ) and our computers know full well the people who actually have a grip on this technology are few and far between.

    The sheep-like consumer who they are trying to lock into a TV-like, owned by the few, push technology state and who make up all the numbers, won't care.

    Things are going to get worst before they get better, if they get better at all.

    • I think at this point it will take a revolution. Perhaps a new country will emerge that is based on real freedom, perhaps one that is not even based on capitalism or money at all.

      If such a place exists, people will flock to it like no other. If it can take care of those people it could very easily use their talents to improve its environment and create an economy that makes us Americans look like we sit at work browsing the web for 12 hours a day.

      Freedom is a very powerful motivator. And so is a loving

  • Could be a good thing... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ChuckDivine ( 221595 ) * <charles.j.divine@gmail.com> on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:40AM (#6674583) Homepage

    Then again, it might not.

    I'm one of the older generation of techies who did get involved in politics as far back as the 1960s. In the 1970s I joined the now gone L5 Society because I thought space had a real role to play in human affairs. It still could.

    But it would be helpful if today's political activists learned a bit from our mistakes. Practically all L5ers were political neophytes. We took up our cause with enthusiasm. For awhile we gathered some attention. So why aren't we all living in space colonies now? Here are some reasons I can think of:

    • We didn't really connect with the larger society as much more than entertainment. People were intrigued -- but not motivated to part with real money.
    • We relied too much on exposition of our ideas. Listening to what others wanted and seeing if we could tailor our activities to others' wants and needs seems important to me now.
    • We underestimated the difficulties we faced.
    • Initially we trusted too much in NASA and the aerospace establishment. Now, ironically enough, we might be trusting too little. That unfortunately is the consequence of dealing too much with an increasingly rigid hierarchy that has been becoming more and more dysfunctional.
    • Techies are damned good with technology. We tend to have significant problems in dealing with people, though. Some of us are working to overcome that shortcoming.
    • Broadening our horizons, listening more, seem like good ideas. Easier said than done, though. First step: ask people why they do things. Ask them why they are so concerned about technology and worry so much about things that we know are relatively minor problems.

    These are just a few thoughts early in the morning. Others will probably be able to think of others.

    Summing up, try to learn from our mistakes -- and from our successes. Politics isn't as neat and orderly like technology.

  • A good start... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Adapt or Die ( 697102 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:44AM (#6674614)
    But more importantly, techies need to be more aware of politics than they are as well. Politics are about more than just the RIAA.

    US slashdotters: Show of hands for everyone who saw the Democratic debate last night. Watch the upcoming forums, and be sure you register to vote.

  • Problem is, techies aren't one peer group... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The problem with generalizations like that in this article is that techies like most other groups in society don't speak with one voice. For every John Gilmore spending their millions to protest government policies there are others actively spending theirs to support conservative causes. To act like it's a single hidden group now exerting political influence is pure nonsense, IMHO...

  • Techies, Slashdotters, and voting (Score:5, Insightful)

    by chia_monkey ( 593501 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:46AM (#6674633) Journal
    I was trying to figure out the significance of this all. I know ever since I started checking Slashdot every day I've become a bit more vocal and interested in politics. I asked myself why. I've got a little experience with the military, I've got a pretty decent education, but why did I wait?

    I don't really think it's an issue of "techies", but more of "techies that care". Not just any clock-punching techie is going to be vocal on Slashdot (or any other "organization") and be interested in how this legislation will affect that privacy, how this bill will help Company A and screw Company B and how it all affects us and our economy. This transcends all groups though, not just techies. Your random worker at Kmart may care about gun laws a bit, but it's the member of the NRA that will follow the bills and legislations and try to have their voices heard. Same with your random citizen watching the war on TV as compared to someone with a family member in service...they've got more interest and thus are more apt to be vocal and take part in politics.

    I think the techies are getting more coverage now though because it's finally socially acceptable to be a geek and know how to configure mom's computer after a crash. Computers are such a part of modern society and not just for the geeks anymore. It's easier to let it all out, speak your mind, and not be shunned.

  • Do the Math (Score:3, Insightful)

    by telstar ( 236404 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @08:46AM (#6674634)
    "They have money, earned during the boom. They have time, found since the bust."
    • I'm pretty sure the second one cancelled out the first one in most cases.

  • Nice idea, not so nice question (Score:3, Insightful)

    by babbage ( 61057 ) <cdeversNO@SPAMcis.usouthal.edu> on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @09:00AM (#6674726) Homepage Journal
    [....] our next presidential candidate will have to answer "POP3 or IMAP?"

    Any nitwit sluggish enough to prefer POP mail isn't fit to serve as president of a POS Ford Pinto, nevermind be POTUS & technocrat leader of the free world.

    A better question in a similar vein could involve SMTP: does the candidate in question recognize that spam is a legitimate problem to 'net users, and what efforts would she sponsor to address the problem? The answer to such a question could be a fascinating insight into how she feels societal problems should be addressed: should we try to legislate the problem away, knowing that spam transmitted from other jurisdictions (Asia, Africa, etc) would continue regardless of US law, or should we find a way to let the markets correct the problem? If the markets won't fix themselves, as so far they have failed to do, then can we stimulate a technological solution? Would the candidate be willing to invest R&D into coming up to a successor to SMTP & related protocols? Or would the candidate take a more laissez faire approach, and not see spam as a problem in the first place? Any technically savvy candidate could have a wide variety of insightful commentaries in this vein.

    POP or IMAP though, that's just dumb. What kind of moron doesn't prefer IMAP? :-)

  • California Techies... (Score:3, Informative)

    by buford_tannen ( 555867 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @09:03AM (#6674752)
    Your state at least one candidate I really like.

    Georgina Russell, who is a software consultant, is running for governor in the recall race. I learned this thanks to this BBC article [bbc.co.uk].

    A quick google search found her campaign site here [georgyforgov.com], along with a few Linux mailing list posts.

    She appears to be one l33t Linux chick. She has even compiled test kernels before [insecure.org]... Now I am all hot and bothered ;)

    Even though "Ahhhhnold" supposedly has this election already wrapped up, I can appreciate her efforts!

  • Maybe this is the start of revamping processes? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Fastolfe ( 1470 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @09:05AM (#6674758)
    The one big thing I can see a large technie presence in the government doing is updating processes. Everything is still based on oration and a verbose written process. A lot of fairly trivial things require an enormous amount of paperwork, and where that paperwork has been replaced by electronic versions, that's literally all it is: a scanned or Word version of the same written document.

    An intelligent and powerful technical presence in the government could allow more technical processes to find their way into government processes. On the technical and scientific side, we're already using better voting techniques to allow systems to handle their own little elections autonomously. We have markup languages that could make legislation sensical to machines. We have technologies that could allow representatives to represent their constituents from places other than the congress.

    Technology has the potential to streamline processes significantly, and there are fewer processes less streamlined than these fundamental processes within our governments.

    My thoughts at least.

  • What about our candidates? (Score:5, Funny)

    by slackr ( 228760 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @09:06AM (#6674770)
    I'm one techie who's not voting for *anything* unless there's a CowboyNeal option.
  • Since the tech community includes about 1.1 H-1B and L-1 visas and abut 3.3 million IT jobs outsourced abroad by 2005, most of these people cant vote in US elections. High-tech US citizens will be a minority soon, if not already.
  • Ok, I have to complain about something here (big surprise no?)

    Has any "techie" in their entire life ever said "Hey, Politics are messed up! lets reboot the system!"?

    Is it at all possible for an article to be written about "techies" without trying to sneak in at least one snide comment? I mean, if i write an article about the GOP, i don't ever include an "After they ate some babies and set fire to some poor people" comment.

    That is all.
  • question than POP3 or IMAP, you probably shouldn't be voting at all. A candidate's preferred email protocol has absolutely no bearing on the important issues. If you have the chance to ask such an inane question, why not make your question meaningful and ask about social security or welfare.

  • Techie Activism (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Phoenix666 ( 184391 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @10:02AM (#6675402)
    There are a couple myths about this stuff that we need to dispel.

    The first myth is that the troubles we're having organizing are not the sole province of engineers, who supposedly don't understand people or politics all that well. It's a problem with any group of people you're trying to organize. Even lawyers, who you would think are really excellent at that sort of thing, bicker forever trying to get anything organized.

    The second myth is that you have to have complete unanimity of opinion for an activist group to work. No organized group of humans in the world is a monolith. There are factions within everything. Saying that techies could never get their acts together because there are the BSD vs. Linux factions, the vi vs. emacs factions, or the debian vs. suse factions makes about as much sense as saying that the Sierra Club could never exist because there are the back-to-the-land, vegetarian, vegan, organic food, naturalist, and activist anti-corporate factions within it. The thing to remember that all an organization needs to do is capture enough overlap between all the factions in a given area.

    The third myth is that we can't make a difference because we're all just average folks without the ear of the government. If we're not billionaires, the thinking goes, then how could we possibly get officials and representatives to listen to us? The answer is, numbers and time and a little effort more than make up for lack of billions of dollars. Do you think that the folks involved in the Civil Rights movement were wealthy? How about all the poor and untouchables marching with Gandhi? Did they have oodles of coin? The truth is, the Civil Rights movement, Feminist Movement, anti-Vietnam War movement, and all the others most of us have been weaned to think were incredibly huge and amazing and all-encompassing were tiny compared to the internet-organized and inspired protests and movements that have sprung up in the past year alone. And we made those happen.

    Yes, some might say, but what difference have those really made? Bush is still in office, we're mired in the quagmire of Iraq anyway, the economy still sucks, and the *AA's are still stripping us of civil liberties with impugnity. But under the media pastiche the powers that be are running scared. Why do you think they're doing what they're doing to take away our rights and shackle our minds? Because we are the ones who really have the power, and they know it. They know they're on the brink of being swept aside, and that's why they're fighting like hell to keep us, the rabble, down.

    We already forced them to back down over the Total Information Awareness program. We've also started to be heard in congress over what the RIAA's doing. That senator who upbraided them about their scorched earth campaign against internet users spoke up because he got enough heat from you and me.

    The conclusion is that we techies can and are making a difference. So don't give up, pitch in!
  • POP3 as a protocol must die and it will as it's designed with wrong assumptions of copying messages to the client-side. IMAP is a protocol that based on the modern idea: "accesss the resource from everywhere" as it keeps all messages on the server-side. That's why comparing POP3 vs IMAP is like dial-up vs DSL - they are from different generation of Internet (one is a remnant from the past, another one is a today's technology). It's much better to ask them "GNOME vs KDE" or "Linux vs BSD".

    [end of a joke]

  • If you check out www.opensecrets.org, you'll see the big increase in donations from computer companies happened in the mid-late 90's(from something like $4 Million/year to $38/million per year in 2-4 years). It is arguable that much of the increased interest in politics on the part of technical people is because when tech managment used their newfound political muscle in ways that weren't really to the advantage others participating in the industry(i.e. buying the H-1b Visa legislation).

  • Our diversity IS our political strength. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bmasel ( 129946 ) <bmasel@@@tds...net> on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @10:18AM (#6675586) Journal
    This was reflected in the successful effort to stop the censorship provisions of the 2001 Methamphetamine Anti-Proliferation Act, where liberal leaning geeks were able to reach Democratic members of the House Judiciary Committee, while Libertarian/Conservatives pulled in just enough Republican Reps to bury it.
    • As a socialist [dsausa.org], it feels bit odd for me to be on the same side of many issues as libertarians.

      But so many people focus on left vs right that it's easy to forget the model of political philosophies as a circle. As your example points out, it seems that many of our issues show where the ends of the circle join together!

      Let's stick together and put our action where are mouths are:
      MoveOn.org [moveon.org]
      EFF.org [eff.org]

  • I have to admit my interest in politics has been on the rise for a handful of years. As a Network Engineer you probably wouldn't expect it. A former peer at a state university is into state politics. He's one our the state reps for his district and a fellow network engineer. I'm returning to college soon to complete a degree and it's been suggested that I consider taking political science courses while I'm there. Does anyone have any thoughts on what it takes to get into politics as a techie? Is a bac

  • Or You Could Run Yourself! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Cy Guy ( 56083 ) * on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @10:32AM (#6675766) Homepage Journal
    Like this techie [georgyforgov.com] is doing. "a 26-year-old high-tech programmer from Mountain View" [sfgate.com], who has already won the unofficial endorsement of Washington Post Writer Howard Kurtz [washingtonpost.com], though this seems to be mostly based on her using cafepress to sell endorsed thong underwear as a fundraising tool. Regardless, she is using the net to propel her campaign to an extent that she is garnering press attention even among the strippers and pornographers and actors.

    I think the Dean campaign shows that it is media access that makes the biggest difference in getting an unknown launched, and techs are the media of the 21st century.

  • The real answer of course, is: "Yes."

    Choice is good.

  • I think you guys are a little too late... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Phantasmo ( 586700 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @11:56AM (#6676806)
    The US has only two parties, and they both agree with each other on every issue:

    Republican: We need to reduce gun control.
    Democrat: Great idea! Let's increase millitary funding, too!
    Republican: I love the way you leftists think. We'll take another couple of billion out of education and knock off early for a beer.

    Anyone who wants to be politically active should immigrate to Canada. Here are some of the parties that you can choose from:

    Canadian Alliance: extreme right wing
    Progressive Conservatives: right wing
    Liberal: centrists
    New Democrats: left wing
    Green: extreme left wing

    All parties (with the exception of the Progressive Conservatives) support proportional representation [fairvotecanada.org], and the current federal government is trying to make it illegal for businesses and unions to fund political parties.

  • This really isn't about techie issues... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by sheldon ( 2322 ) on Tuesday August 12, 2003 @01:57PM (#6678181)
    I'm involved with the Draft Clark 2004 group, which is largely organized off the Internet in the form of websites, blogs, email lists, etc. It's related with moveon.org, meetup.com, etc. in that it's another grassroots organization using technology to benefit progressive causes.

    What this article is talking about really has nothing to do with techies. It has to do with technies using their knowledge of the Internet to help bring people together who have a common interest. This isn't about bringing technology to government, nor is it really about pushing techie politic issues. It simply is an organized reaction to the overwhelming influence of special interest groups in politics.

    What is interesting about this, is it's grassroots citizenry pushing for change from below. This is different from the Republican strategy of years past which involved big donors and big corporations running issue ads and subverting the media to push issues down onto the people.

    So it is a change, I believe it's a change for the positive. I just don't see that it has much to do with techies other than as a tool to aid the collaboration.

    Our Draft Clark meetings have had a wide range of people attending, a large number of military vets, women, people of foreign birth or with extensive world travel experience. There have been some techies, certainly. But a common sentiment has been the concern of the deterioration of Americans civil rights under the Bush administration. This has more to do with the Patriot Act than it does with the DMCA, however.

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