Telemarketers Plan Counterattack 587
Chris Hoofnagle writes "CNN reports that companies who heavily use telemarketing are planning to counterattack consumers with a barrage of spam and junk mail in October, when the new do-not-call registry goes into effect. Slashdotters should be aware that, as well as anti-spam email software, there are tools to avoid junk snail-mail, such as Junkbusters' free Declare, Private Citizen's excellent service and the Postal Service's Prohibitory Order service, which is described at the EPIC privacy page."
RReaahh (Score:2, Insightful)
The paper said that in addition to seeing more e-mail or junk mail, consumers who call companies on other business may now have to listen to sales pitches while negotiating voice mail messages.
Yeah, that's what I wanna hear- I'm a dog, and I get to listen to kibbles and bits and bits and bits next time I call to get my dog neutered. Tell ya what boys, you pull a vo
Re:RReaahh (Score:5, Informative)
It's that nasty sounding tri-tone that you get when you call a phone number that's been disconnected.
Go to wally world and buy a $10 answering machine and a $10 caller ID.
Hit -record- on the answering machine.
Play the SIT tone into the microphone at a LOUD level, TWO TIMES in a row.
Then wait two seconds and say,
"I'm sorry, the number you called is not taking calls right now, please call back later." and repeat the SIT tone two more times loudly.
Set the answering machine to announce only, answer on 4th ring and don't let it record messages.
When the phone rings, look at the caller ID.
If it's not someone you KNOW or it says, "out of area" or "name unavailable" let the machine take care of it for you.
They have a computer that dials and listens for human voices. That's why you get silence when you answer it. When it hears you say "hello" it knows there is a living human there and it switches you to a semi-human operator so they can harrass you for 10 minutes.
The dialing computer hears the SIT tone and it asusmes that it has dialed a phone number that has been disconnected. You number is removed from the dialing databank and won't be tried again until the next billing cycle, they assume that you may have had your phone turned off for nonpayment and maybe get it back on later.
I swear to you this works. Just do it for ONE WEEK and this shit will almost totally stop.
And they DO sell/trade/share/rent those number banks with other companies. So after a few months the calls will all but totally vanish.
TRUST ME, IT WORKS!!
Re:RReaahh (Score:4, Informative)
A note about one nasty little loophole in this, though: if you ask them to "remove my number from the database" then they have to remove it, but there's no time limit on how soon they can put it in (they could take it out and put it right back in). If you ask to be put on the "do-not-call list," however, then they are in for a world of hurt. Just get the telemarketing company name and ideally the telemarketer's name as well, and send an email to the FTC. They then are fined $11,000 (reduce your tax burden, eh?).
Re:RReaahh (Score:5, Informative)
They telemarketers got wise to this and they now only recognize the tri-tone as being legit.
The single tone the telezapper puts out is no longer useable.
A REAL SIT tone still gets the job done..
Re:RReaahh (Score:3, Informative)
While I am in favor of technological so
Waste their Precious Time (Score:4, Interesting)
I had one lady hooked, asking questions about warranty, return procedures, etc. Then I would say "hold on, somebody at the door" and put the phone down for a few minutes, and come back for more questions.
Finally, after about 25 minutes of this, I asked a question the drone did not have a script for, and the supervisor came on the line. Asked her a few questions, finally got tired of it all, and said, "You know what? I changed my mind. I don't want it after all. Thanks, bye."
I did not receive another telemarketer call for over a month. (Usually got them once a day...)
And before you go on about, telemarketers are human too, I used to work as one, etc. Well, I'm human, wish to be left alone, and if polite requests don't work, then this is war. TFB.
Another loophole (Score:3, Informative)
On the other hand, since I've signed up for the no-call list two yea
Re:RReaahh (Score:4, Informative)
You only need to play it once. Loud is good though. Call it from a friend's house to see how it sounds.
Then wait two seconds and say,
"I'm sorry, the number you called is not taking calls right now, please call back later." and repeat the SIT tone two more times loudly.
Set the answering machine to announce only, answer on 4th ring and don't let it record messages.
Completely unnecessary. When the SIT tone is done, record a normal greeting. Set the machine to go ahead and record messages. More SIT tones at the end of your message are annoying and will not help you. Remember that there will be people calling that you actually want to talk to, and you don't want to scare them away.
A telemarketer's computer will detect the SIT tone (the first time) and remove the number from their list, as you said. Or, a live telemarketer will hear the SIT tone and immediately hang up, thinking the number is disconnected - the faster they hang up, the faster they can move on to the next call, and they get paid commission. Your friends/family/etc. will probably stop to listen to your message, which sounds like a normal answering machine, and they'll just leave a message.
When you ARE home, answer the phone normally; don't use the answering machine. If a telemarketer calls, simply tell them: "Please add this number to your Do Not Call list." Notice the difference between "add this number" and "remove this number". The SIT tone on the answering machine when you're not home will have the same effect as asking for your number to be removed - it's better than nothing, but you'll always wind up on some other list. Do Not Call lists are taken VERY seriously.
They have a computer that dials and listens for human voices. That's why you get silence when you answer it. When it hears you say "hello" it knows there is a living human there and it switches you to a semi-human operator so they can harrass you for 10 minutes.
Wrong. The reason you get silence is, their predictive dialing system got a little too aggressive.
Basically what happens is, say you've got 500 employees logged in, all on the phone. A phone call takes X seconds on average. It takes an average of Y seconds to dial a phone number, wait for it to connect, and a hapless victim to answer. Based on these statistics, there should be an employee finished with his/her current call and ready to take a new one in Z seconds (Z is X minus how long ago they started their current call). Wait until Z=Y, and start dialing, even though all employees are still on other calls and nobody's available to talk to a victim. As soon as an employee becomes available, connect them to the number you just dialed. The problem is, since Z can fluctuate by quite a bit, you may have dialed too soon, so when Y seconds go by and the victim answers, no employees have finished with the calls they're already on yet, and the victim gets silence until someone becomes available to connect the call to.
Re:RReaahh (Score:3, Insightful)
The system they used had a voice recognition system, similar to a modem. Some modems will hear a voice when they dial and send the message VOICE CALL to the terminal and hang up rather than bug the shit out of someone with modem tones in case you dialed a wrong number.
There may be other methods such as you describe but I personally witnessed the voice recognition system, it switched the line to an operator as soon as
Re:RReaahh (Score:4, Informative)
Uh huh.
It works?
Most telemarketers and outgoing call centers use what is known as a Progressive Dialer. Generally speaking, a Progressive Dialer uses ISDN. ISDN has this wonderful ability to have a "Data" channel, basically taking all of the information that would be considered "In band" (e.g., ringing, busy signal, SIT tones, etc) and placing it inside that data channel--so in theory, the ISDN 'channel' only hears voices...no dial tone, no busy signals, no SIT noise.
That ISDN line knows if your phone really is SIT'ed out, if it really is busy, or what the status of your line is, just by reading the information that your phone company's switch sends it.
I should also remind you that it's probably against your phone company's TOS to use SIT tones on your answering machine, however, YMMV.
This is just technical information, and I'm going from my limited experince as a Telephone Switch Operator for a campus that had a little under 3000 trunk lines. It may work for you, but, who knows...it may not.
Re:RReaahh (Score:5, Funny)
I didn't want to talk to you anyway...
Re:RReaahh (Score:3, Interesting)
If it's war they want, then they shall have it.
Re:RReaahh (Score:3, Funny)
The scary part is that there actually is such a product [neuticles.com] on the market. From their page:
Umm...yeah. Whatever.
SPAM (Score:2, Funny)
Re:SPAM (Score:2, Funny)
Maybe it was nice to have SPAM keeping me company.
Want some of mine? I have plenty to share...
Re:SPAM (Score:5, Funny)
<ackbar>It's a trap!</ackbar>
Bah! It won't make a difference. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Bah! It won't make a difference. (Score:2)
Re:Bah! It won't make a difference. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Bah! It won't make a difference. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Bah! It won't make a difference. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bah! It won't make a difference. (Score:2, Insightful)
sociopaths!!!! (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhpas we'll need a "do not mail, and do not e-mail" list now as well.
Seriously, I think spammers should go to jail if they are requrested to stop and DON'T. I'm not even convinced that the death penalty would be considered "cruel and unusual" for these idiots who JUST WON'T LEAVE US ALONE!!!!!
Re:sociopaths!!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:sociopaths!!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
If this was really true, it would have stopped already.
-- james
Re:sociopaths!!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
If there was a proper law that explicitly made it illegal for MakeMoneyFast.com to send UCE, and also provided penalties for companies (or their agents) who hire spammers to advertise on their behalf, then the business of spam for hire would suffer.
Plus, how hard is it for professional spammer
Re:sociopaths!!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
That's great, seriously. It is nice to know that there is a market for people in the telemarketing business so that they don't all lose their jobs. I do believe, however, that the enormous early adoption of the federal do-not-call list appears to be early evidence that this market is much smaller than ma
Yes... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Funny)
Good thing about email (Score:4, Insightful)
Comical. (Score:5, Funny)
[OT] Re:Be gone from here!!! (Score:3)
STOP BUYING. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:STOP BUYING. (Score:5, Insightful)
Spam and telemarketing works because of idiots.
Idiots, yes, but I think a lot of their sales come from the elderly. When people's minds start to weaken with age or illness, they become easy targets for these scumbags. My grandparents were constantly being tricked into buying useless stuff over the phone before they went to the nursing home. I don't mind telemarketers calling me so much, I like messing with them sometimes, but it really infuriates me to see them prey on old people.
Re:STOP BUYING. (Score:4, Interesting)
Unfortunately, I must agree with this. When I was younger, I took a job doing telemarketing calls. On my first day they gave me a list of numbers and a script to follow. After about an hour, I started to notice that most of the voices on the other end of the phone sounded fairly old. Unfortunately, the older folks were the ones going for the script too, which made me feel pretty crappy, so I threw out the list of 'leads' I had gathered so far and quit the same day.
We need to put pressure on the companies that hire these types of firms. Without any money to support them, these telemarketing/spam/etc companies will simply go away, as they are motivated by greed.
Re:STOP BUYING. (Score:4, Interesting)
Making fun of the telemarketer calling you is like punching someone who has their hands tied, and isn't allowed to run away...
...Who ran up to you on the sidewalk and gave you a kick in the butt because someone promised him a nickle to do it. Yes, I can insist that I be placed on the do not call list, and as often as not, the scumbag who called me will try to weasel out of it by saying back "so you want to be removed from the call list?" (meaning I will be removed for the week until the NEXT call list is generated if I agree to the statement), or do their best to hang up before I can finish saying "please place me on your do not call list".
Frankly, they deserve a physical punch in the nose, but since they're hiding behind the phone, I have to settle for a verbal assault.
In some sense, the peons making the calls are worse than their employers since they are the ones actually doing the annoying, and they do it for chump change.
Really, it need not have come to this. Telemarketers COULD use restraint by not calling at every godawful hour of the day that isn't explicitly prohibited by law, by realizing that if I didn't want my home remodeled last week, I probably don't this week either, if I say I don't have a pool, there's no sense in calling me back again for pool cleaning service, by accepting 'no' gracefully, sending out a proper caller ID rather than 'unavailable', or worse, a randomly selected personal name, and treating the people they call with respect rather than as a faceless number worth no more than the amount of cash that can be extracted from them, but obviously that didn't happen. If they're not going to play nice, they're not welcome here at all. My house, my phone, my rules.
Re:STOP BUYING. (Score:3, Insightful)
Stop buying stuff from the companies that do this. Bottom line. Spam and telemarketing works because of idiots.
Alternatively, shoot all the idiots. And the elderly. And the naive. And the uneducated. And those who should have known better.
And when you and me are left...then cold calling us won't work!
Of course, perhaps it will be easier to stop the telemarketers from calling, rather then stopping people being people (ie idiotic).
NO KIDDING!!!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
If I remember correctly, the bar graphs summed up to something around $10 billion (yes, $10,000,000,000) dollars anually.
So, if $10 billion is being spent on telemarketing, how much are people buying to make that expenditure worth while?
Somewhere, oh somewhere, there are those idiots spending ATLEAST $10 fucking-billion dollars a year to keep
Re:NO KIDDING!!!!! (Score:4, Informative)
Hmm.. new business plan? (Score:3, Interesting)
This gives me an idea. Up here in Canada, we don't have the protection of a national "Do Not Call" registry. But it *is* still illegal to call people on phones for which they are charged to receive calls (eg., cell phones).
I see here an opportunity for the telecom companies in Canada to increase profits, while stamping out annoying telemarketers. What if they offered a "service" whereby customers could opt-in to a model where on top of their monthly local access fee, they pay an additional 1 cent for ev
Re:STOP BUYING still won't work (Score:5, Funny)
Re:STOP BUYING. (Score:5, Funny)
They are asking for trouble..... (Score:4, Interesting)
They better have some heavy duty security in place. And they better have armed escorts to and from the parking lots. Someone is going to get a belly full someday very soon and they will go looking for a pound of flesh..
The odds are against them because they so viscously and relentlessly hound and harrass such large numbers of people so endlessly.
Sooner or later, the numbers say that a certain percentage of their victims will snap..
And you know what? I won't shed a single tear for one of them. Not one....
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:They are asking for trouble..... (Score:5, Interesting)
Does anyone know how to find out where a telemarketer is REALLY calling you from?
Wouldn't that be great, you could sell a telemarketer's number to other telemarketers?
Re:They are asking for trouble..... (Score:4, Informative)
Well, the way I understand it, it works something like this:
- Company A is trying to sell a widget, and hires Company B (a marketing company) to help them sell more widgets
- Company B basically coordinates things, but does nothing itself. They outsource to several different companies specializing in various forms of advertising - one for print ads in magazines and newspapers, possibly another to make/run a commerical on the radio or TV, and, of course, Company C, who does telemarketing. (Possibly also having Companies D, E and F do it as well...)
- Company C's real business is not telemarketing, but selling customer lists, containing phone, email, street addresses, etc... They outsource the actual calling job (along with a calling list) to Company G.
- Company G has an automated calling device, instead of an actual phone center. They make the call, play a pre-recorded pitch, and refer you to call Company H for more details. Since there's no actual PERSON to talk to, you can't ask to be put on their "Do Not Call" list.
- Company H (who does no calling, only taking calls, and orders, passing them back to Company C, who then passes it back on to Company A) answers your (rather irate) phone call, asking to be put on their "Do Not Call" list. Since they do no calling, they don't have a "Do Not Call" list at all, and can't help. When you ask who they work for, so that you may be put on their "Do Not Call" list, they may or may not give you an answer, depending on whether they are allowed to give out such "confidential company information".
- Even if you manage to track it back to Company C, and speak to someone there, since they only outsource to calling companies, and do no calling themselves, their "Do Not Call" list is also useless to you, as it would only be binding for them, not the company doing the actual calling. Again, depending on their policy, you may or may not be able to actually get information on the calling company itself. Most likely not, as it would sabotage their business model if they were to give out that information.
- Even if you do manage to get added to one calling company's "Do Not Call" list, other calling companies aren't bound by that (and the one you did get on may "expire" after 3 months or so)
Yes, I speak from personal experience, after attempting to track down and get onto the "Do Not Call" list for whatever companies Disney hires to telemarket their cruises. Whomever they use (I wasn't able to get a company name, because it's "confidential") uses an automated dialer, with a 15 minute sales pitch recording that doesn't care if it's talking to an answering machine or not. My answering machine only holds 15 minutes worth of messages - so one of their pitches makes my machine useless.The problem is that there's so many layers, each independant of the others, and each wary of giving out "company secrets" regarding their "business partners", that it's like pulling teeth to get any kind of information out of them. And heaven forbid you actually tell them you're trying to stop the telemarketing calls -- that's grounds for them to immediately hang up on you in most cases.
Re:They are asking for trouble..... (Score:3, Funny)
(humming along, a happy tune in my heart)
Re:They are asking for trouble..... (Score:4, Interesting)
I just wish there was LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE legislation so that no commercial or non-profit organization is allowed to call, by default, unless they can prove that the end user has opted in.
Oh, you say we've opted in? Well, that opt-in expires every 3 months, at which time they have to opt people back in. That's the way the opt-out stuff works now, at least in Canada.
They want to discuss the case in court? Then they have to record EVERY call they make for future reference. If their LUDs show they called the number, and they're missing any recordings of the calls in their records, then they lose by default. "But that's expensive, and complex, and costs us money!" Well NOOOO SHIT, and TOUGH LUCK.
As to the auditing, "keep them honest" part of this process? Make them pay for it... part of the cost of doing the marketing.
I'm sick and tired of corps/politicians/orgs claiming it is their RIGHT to call me and bug me, and them making ME jump through hoops to try and stop it.
If that's their right, it should be MY right to beat the crap out of them. Seems fair to me.
EPIC slashdotted (Score:3, Informative)
=== snip ===
Stopping Junk Mail with Post Office Prohibitory Orders
Individuals may obtain a prohibitory order to stop junk mail from being sent to a residence. This order can be obtained through a law that prohibits the mailing of advertising materials "which the addressee in his sole discretion believes to be erotically arousing or sexually provocative." Practically, this means that individuals can obtain a prohibitory order against any junk mail sender.
Individuals wishing to obtain a prohibitory order should visit their local post office for "Form 1500" or click on the link provided below.
The Attorney General's office no longer sues under this statute to obtain damages. However, individuals should still obtain prohibitory orders against junk mailers. By doing so, marketers who engage in saturation mailings (heavily-discounted mailings delivered to every residence in the area that are usually addressed with "Postal Customer" or "Resident") must adjust their address lists so that the materials are no longer sent to the address with the prohibitory order. This results in higher costs to junk mailers.
* Application for Listing and/or Prohibitory Order (Form 1500), United States Postal Inspection Service [usps.com].
* 39 U.S.C. Sect. 3008, Prohibition of pandering advertisements.
* Rowan v. U.S. Post Office, 397 U.S. 728 (1970). "In today's complex society we are inescapably captive audiences for many purposes, but a sufficient measure of individual autonomy must survive to permit every householder to exercise control over unwanted mail...Today's merchandising methods, the plethora of mass mailings subsidized by low postal rates, and the growth of the sale of large mailing lists as an industry in itself have changed the mailman from a carrier of primarily private communications, as he was in a more leisurely day, and have made him an adjunct of the mass mailer who sends unsolicited and often unwanted mail into every home. It places no strain on the doctrine of judicial notice to observe that whether measured by pieces or pounds, Everyman's mail today is made up overwhelmingly of material he did not seek from persons he does not know. And all too often it is matter he finds offensive."
* Unsolicited Sexually Oriented Advertising, United States Postal Inspection Service.
* Stop Unsolicited Sexually Oriented Advertising in Your Mail, United State Postal Inspection Service.
* Postal Bulletin PB 21977, United State Postal Inspection Service, July 30, 1998. "The prohibitory order. This order aids in protecting customers from receiving pandering advertisements through the mail. An addressee may obtain a prohibitory order against the mailer of an advertisement that the addressee determines, in his or her sole discretion, to be offering matter for sale that is erotically arousing or sexually provocative, as defined in title 39, United States Code, 3008. Postmasters may not refuse to accept a Form 1500 because the advertisement in question does not appear to be sexually oriented. Only the addressee may make that determination. The order prohibits the mailer from sending any further mail to the applicant (and his or her eligible minor children included in the application), effective on the 30th calendar day after the mailer receives the order."
* U.S. Laws on Direct Mail, Junkbusters.
=== snip ===
What goes around, comes around (Score:5, Insightful)
I usually flush shit down the toilet, not feed it to my dog. What goes around, comes around. I predict there will be a backlash against the sleaziest of these direct marketing firms and the slime that hire them. I already refuse to deal with companies that make me play touch-tone tag on their badly designed voice systems.
Some day soon, the phone rings... (Score:4, Funny)
Cthulhu: Hello?
JF Lyons: Hi there, Mr. Khooloo, I calling you because I want to give you what you want to eat! Interested?
Cthulhu: Why yes, I am a bit peckish...
Re:So do what I do (Score:3, Funny)
That's not what the story says... (Score:5, Informative)
That's not what the story says. Sheesh, don't the submitters even read the articles? This story isn't about counterattacking anyone.
Here's a quote that summarizes the story: ''"We plan to shift into other communication mediums, and rely more heavily on traditional TV advertising and e-mail marketing," Allstate acting Chief Marketing Officer Todd DeYoung told the paper.''
In other words, they will stop using telemarketing and shift over to snail mail and email. Will that email be spam? Maybe, maybe not, but a spam from Allstate is a heck of a lot better than a phone call from Allstate every time I sit down to a meal.
Re:That's not what the story says... (Score:4, Insightful)
Spam is *not* better. Who pays? (Score:4, Interesting)
You can google for that one... but it's out there, and it was in the newspapers at the time. So if you buy Allstate, expect to be cheated.
But for me, what really caught my notice is that they think I'm a dog. Okay. But keep your spam away too.
- . - . -
I should also note, while I'm at it, that Allstate is by no means the only dishonest/evil insurance company. You have to be careful. For example: do not become a partner of Lloyds of London. Lloyds was discovering that all their asbestos insurance was a huge liability, so they suddenly opened their insurance to new "partners", who were relatively new multimillionaire Americans, and then switched the documentation so the asbestos liability went to them. When the Americans sued (there were about 8 of them), they were all mysteriously murdered within a year. The last I heard was that the heirs of one of them continued the suit, but the law offices of their lawyers, one of them in James City County, were all mysteriously burgled, and the documents stolen. So... umm... realize that Lloyds is owned by murderers before you do business with them. [That was from the Daily Press of Newport News, about 1996].
can't they get a fucking clue (Score:2)
I hope I live long enough to see the day when all advertising is banned. All commercial speech. Banned. Eventually, if they keep this shit up, the government will have
Re:can't they get a fucking clue (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:can't they get a fucking clue (Score:2)
Re:can't they get a fucking clue (Score:2)
If you ban commercial speech, then how am I going to be able to look up essential services I need? How am I going to be able to find a plumber when my pipes break?
Re:can't they get a fucking clue (Score:2)
Wow. Yours is a great post to read right after watching Family Guy on Adult Swim at 11:30/10:30 Central on The Cartoon Network! I kept on thinking, "Wow, is this guy Stewie or what?"
Re:can't they get a fucking clue (Score:2)
Re:can't they get a fucking clue (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:can't they get a fucking clue (Score:2)
When the local cable TV co mailed flyers informing us that broadband was now avaliable, we signed up immediatley (DSL wasn't avaliable at the time). The CableCo got another customer and I got the service I want.
Banning commercial speech will result in recession and crippling of the economy - how the hell can any business survive if they're not allowed to tell anyone that they exist?
While I oppose telemarketing and spam, I do not at all mind being informed of commercial offers t
Hit them where it hurts - in their customers (Score:3, Informative)
We all hate this shit, but going off at the Telemarketers and Spammers doesn't work - they've proven time and again that they have no respect for the "consumer".
Better is a) Don't buy the stuff, and b) Lodge formal complaints with the CEO of the company's using their services. Most of the top-dogs have little idea their marketing departments are doing this shit so let them know, and let them know you don't like it and won't buy their stuff as long as they do it.
Option C (Score:2)
Re:Hit them where it hurts - in their customers (Score:2)
The More... (Score:2)
The more they bombard us, the more we hate them and only idiots who make their own consumer hate them. If they at least wear their brains, they should exercise self-control. For me, personally, I never ever buy any products on any companies that advertise through spam and I believe most of you do too.
Now, the problem is that what if they advertise some other / competitor product so that the spam makes customers hate these innocent companies? Well, I suppose the innocent companies can sue these spammers fo
There's only one way to stop this (Score:2, Funny)
So, I propose that we set up a fake telemarketing/spam centre that pretends to be your typical telemarketer. But instead of sending you a long distance plan or penis enlarger, it actually just sends out a pyromaniac to burn your house down if you buy something.
The best part is it only has to be
The best way to avoid spam (Score:4, Funny)
"The best way to avoid spam is to never give out your e-mail address to anyone."
It's good advice. I've been using that method ever since I read that, and it's working beautifully.
When even that doesn't work (Score:3, Insightful)
One sleazy spammer tactic is to target a domain and autogenerate a zillion possible email addresses, in what's called a Rumpelstiltskin attack. If you have an email alias common or simple enough that you couldn't use it as a password, then it's vulnerable. If it's on some high-profile provider like Hotmail, it will be attacked.
Another one bites the dust (Score:5, Funny)
Businesses are supposed to provide products and services, not shove them down our throats. It is our choice what we buy anyway, isn't it?
Re:Another one bites the dust (Score:2, Interesting)
I know it's hard for a company to get promoted these days with all the competition, but I agree, this is going too far.
I always wonder who keeps these people in business, because I know that I never buy from spammers. I even email them and tell them that...
Hmm... (Score:5, Funny)
Not a problem, as I'm reasonably certain that such tactics will lead them to the promised land of lawsuits, Chapter 11, and finally, Cellblock 6A, which houses Bubba's Fudge-Packing Factory. Spam on dear telemarketers. Spam your way to an 8x10 cell where you can push your wares on a 300lbs man who hasn't seen a woman in 15 years.
Re:Hmm... (Score:5, Funny)
You won't be seeing much of his face.
Why don't they get it? (Score:5, Interesting)
If your business model requires hassling your customers then when they prevent you doing it via the phone it's time to change business models not the method you use to hassle.
It's self defeating and why business's think that customers want you to cold-contact them I do not know. Find a market, advertise on mass media or in media that your customers read and then sell to them. Don't bother everyone else with your crap.
Snail-mail spam (Score:5, Funny)
Babies (Score:2)
Apparently they weren't spanked as children.
Seriously, what a childish thing to do! I know they're losing revenue - but that's the point! Sure, 1 out of 10 (stupid) people may bite, but that's 9 out of 10 people that would love to rub their face in year-old Spam (the Hormel kind*). The government - and the people actually backing them for once instead of being apathetic or unheard - have spoken! Perhaps they should get a real job that is more respectable by far - like flipping burgers, cleaning sewer syst
Fun ideas (Score:3, Interesting)
If you get mail, try to always reply... on their dime. E.g. when they have business reply stuff.
Otherwise, if there is a return address mark "dead" on the mail and send it back.
If you're getting calls always try to find out things about the caller. Ask where they go to school [most are students]. Ask what political party they voted for, etc.
The bottom line is instead of trying to run and hide from them why not have fun instead? Answer the phone, just don't give them useful information. Lie through your teeth while learning things about them.
Tom
Embedded sales pitches? (Score:2)
Oh, this is great. I could barely contain myself when some credit card company couldn't accept my multiple "I'd like to cancel my (zero-balance) account, please" without subjecting me to twenty questions about why, and would I consider this offer, oh I'm sorry but I have to ask you this, well what if we gave you th
Do your part (Score:2, Interesting)
Instead of pranking a telemarketer next time they call, get the phone number of the company on whose behalf they're calling. Get in touch with that companies marketing department a
National DNC overhyped (Score:5, Informative)
(offtopic) Additionally, the conspiracy theorist in me thinks that this is the best idea that the government ever had for creating a database of names and numbers and email addresses. Peole are entering their data for the FTC as fast as they possibly can. And with nothing to show for it in the end.(/offtopic)
Re:National DNC overhyped (Score:4, Insightful)
This is called the "White Pages." It's how you get in contact with people.
It doesn't exist yet because the DNC list doesn't go into effect for 3 more months! It would be kind of silly to have a complaint center that receives complaints about things that aren't yet illegal.
Currently, under the telecommunications privacy act, you must pursue legal action against law-breaking telemarketers in small claims court, and with all of that information (and more!)
Because... (Score:2)
Bring on the junk snail mail .. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Bring on the junk snail mail .. (Score:3, Funny)
The Post Office was not amused.
Note -- if you try this, be sure to get bills and other important correspondence sent to a PO box
Advertising as a substitute for Service (Score:3, Insightful)
From the article:
Rough translation: "we will advertise at you by any and all legal means available, no matter how annoying we have to be." I do sometimes wonder if there isn't a viable place for, "just concentrate on giving the customer good service," in this world. Nobody seems to believe in that quaint old idea anymore.
My phone number is my property! (Score:3, Insightful)
Howizzit telemarketers don't grasp this concept? Howizzit the lawmakers fail to? Whyizzit we have to finely craft laws such as the don't-call-list to leave loopholes so I still have to hang up on the statetroopers whoopee fund. It is so demonstrably clear that my phone number is mine and using it is not free speech. Leaving the loophole is like leaving a loophole that says it is okay for the local repugnican party to put "elect tusch" signs in my yard.
And same argument goes for my email address. It's mine, I pay good money to my cable company to have it.
Oddly, snail mail doesn't trespass in the same way. The marketer has to pay to for their soon-to-be-trash to be brought to my house. Then again, I do have to pay to have it hauled away.
Another way to SHUT THEM DOWN. (Score:5, Interesting)
The next day, I did not receive a phone call from company A, so I decided to call them, and darn it, there phones had been disconnected.
True story, it really works. If you are persistent, you can get their phones turned off.
Re:Another way to SHUT THEM DOWN. (Score:3, Informative)
It depends what country you live in, but on some phone systems, the call doesn't get cleared down until the _caller_ puts the phone on the hook (or the callee puts their phone on the hook for a certain period of time and the exchange times out). If your phone system works lik
Re:Another way to SHUT THEM DOWN. (Score:3, Informative)
Derek
Here's what you do. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Here's what you do. (Score:3, Interesting)
Better by far is to print off a form letter asking a silly question, and send that to them.
Then they pay postage for your letter, postage for their reply, and worse, salary/office costs for the person who writes the reply.
That really really hurts their profitability.
~Cederic
The San Jose Mercury News... (Score:3, Informative)
I had to call them about 5 times, and send a FED-EX to the president of Knight-Ridder in order to get it to stop.
Can you imagine? To stop a newspaper I never wanted in the first place, I had to spend about an hour on the phone and $12 on FED-EX bills!
The local Police and City Hall (Palo Alto, CA), tell me there's nothing they can do about it. (I guess they're too busy hugging homeless people.)
The paper weighs about 6 oz, on average. For 6 months thats about 90 pounds of paper. WHat I don't understand is if I decided to deliver, say, 90 pounds of manure "free" to the Palo Alto Police chief, he'd have me arrested. WHY CAN THE SAN JOSE MERCURY NEWS get away with this?
Vandalism in the Zoo ( actually on topic ) (Score:3, Insightful)
The people spoke amongst themselves and the City Council and it came to be that the zoo would no longer be free. We would have ticket counters and an admission fee. We knew the troublemakers would go somewhere else if they had to pay to get in, and if they were caught misbehaving, they would have to pay again if they wanted back in. It worked. We hated to lose our "free" zoo, but it had to be.
I hate to think of internet mail-server routing services no longer being free, but we may well get pushed into this because it may be less expensive to deal with a payment system than it is to deal with spam.
At least one advantage I can think off right off the bat with a payment system is that someone pays... that means someone is accountable for what got sent, and if fraud is involved, there is a direct monetary theft involved. A shopping mall can haul you into court over a shoplifted candy bar. So even if the payment is not much, it *is* a payment and incurs accountability.
It really bugs me to be forced into this train of thought, as I would much rather consider infrastructures to be public property. But, like the zoo, a pricing strategy may have advantages for controlling unruly pests.
Top Three (Score:3, Funny)
3. An anonymous death threat. Not directed at me personally, but still it was coming to the family phone number. He informed me that he was "sharpening the knives" among other things.
2. Some chick who wanted me to repair a wheelchair, because that was obviously what I do. (It's not.)
1. Some guy calling from Tokyo and wanted to know if I was interested in the stock market and trading. (I live in Sweden, btw.)
There's only one real solution (Score:3, Interesting)
And it's the same as for email addresses. Protect it savagely.
My friends and family know my home 'phone number and my primary email address. The only company that knows my phone is my telco, and I made sure to tick the "Don't even think of publishing or sharing it" box. My primary email is postmaster@my.domain.com, which is an address that spammers (demonstrably) avoid (they like sales@ though). Companies that insist on having a home 'phone number for me, e.g. my credit card issuer, get given their own number, just as they get postmaster@their.domain.com or uce@ftc.gov for an email address if they have no legitimate reason for knowing it, or their.company@my.domain.com if I do need to hear from them. Funnily enough, I haven't had a single telemarketing call or piece of spam to my home phone or primary email address in three years since I decided on this policy, switched telcos and bought myself a domain.
It is within your power to protect yourself.
Used to work as a telemarketer (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:This'll be great for the environment! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:How about the libertarian angle? (Score:3, Interesting)
We have laws against people playing loud music for hours at night (aka Disturbing The Peace).
We have laws against murder and rape, I dont think any reasonable libertarianw would argue that the govermnent has no right to protect us from each other in that regard, so I dont see why this concept can't be extended to highly annoying telemarketers (or spammers) without en