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The Courts Government Patents News

Sendo Sues Orange for Patent Infringement 100

Posted by CowboyNeal from the we-did-it-first dept.
captnjameskirk writes "RCR Wireless News is reporting that Sendo is suing European carrier Orange for patent infringement involving the circuit board design within the phones. As the article points out, Sendo also sued Microsoft for allegedly stealing their technology for use in the Smartphone OS." Back in January, we also had some more information on the case between Sendo and Microsoft.
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Sendo Sues Orange for Patent Infringement More

Sendo Sues Orange for Patent Infringement

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  • No friends (Score:1, Insightful)

    by CausticWindow ( 632215 )

    Sendo isn't good at making friends. Just as important in business as elsewhere.

    They probably need cash bad.

  • Heyo (Score:5, Funny)

    by ergonal ( 609484 ) on Thursday June 05, 2003 @07:18PM (#6128395)
    Hey Orangeo, Sendo your casho to uso!

  • Sendo, AKA SCO (Score:4, Funny)

    by ajiva ( 156759 ) on Thursday June 05, 2003 @07:19PM (#6128402)
    Sendo *must* be a subsidiary of SCO...

    • Re:Sendo, AKA SCO (Score:5, Funny)

      by jrl87 ( 669651 ) on Thursday June 05, 2003 @07:23PM (#6128418)
      Ya, except SCO is sueing for something that works ...

    • Re:Sendo, AKA SCO (Score:4, Funny)

      by mrklin ( 608689 ) <ken...lin@@@gmail...com> on Thursday June 05, 2003 @07:26PM (#6128432)
      Give it some time and Sendo will starting suing itself for frivolous lawsuits.
    • In a followup suit against Apple Computer [apple.com], a Sendo company spokeperson remarked that "Based upon our previous successes, we fully expect to win", appearently in conflict with longstanding advice on the subject.
    • Sendo *must* be a subsidiary of SCO...

      Follow the story. Sendo is another rape victim of Microsoft. As I understand it, Microsoft contracted with Sendo to develop the Microsoft Smartphone[tm], and slipped a clause into the contract that said if Sendo goes bankrupt, Microsoft gets the IP. Microsoft then proceeded to try to drive Sendo into bankruptcy. It didn't work, but Microsoft had access to the designs and software, and handed the hardware design off to another company, Orange, to manufacture the ph
      • Orange didn't manufacture the phone; HTC did. Orange are a mobile phone network in the UK, orginally started by Hutchison Whampoa, and later sold to France Telecom. HTC do OEM (Original Equipment Manufacture; making something from someone else's design) and ODM (Original Design Manufacture; design and manufacture) work for all sorts of electrical goods. They're based mostly in Taiwan.
    • There are some interesting parallels between the two stories.
      "Little company teams up with behemoth to work on new IP, behemoth breaks off the deal and allegedly uses the IP with another partner. Little company sues." Could sum up both of them
      Why then do I find my self supporting Sendo and vilifying SCO?
      I suppose it is because Sendo isn't threatening to bring down the whole mobile phone industry. It is 'reluctantly' suing Orange. Where as SCO seems quite happy to sue anyone who is willing to take them

  • Here's an idea... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Black Parrot ( 19622 ) on Thursday June 05, 2003 @07:19PM (#6128405)


    Wouldn't it save bandwidth if you reported the companies that aren't suing each other?

  • Sendo (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 05, 2003 @07:20PM (#6128407)
    Strangely enough, Sendo is also reporting [sendo.com] this.

  • "Amicable" (Score:5, Funny)

    by kaltkalt ( 620110 ) on Thursday June 05, 2003 @07:21PM (#6128408)
    We have tried to solve the matter in an amicable way,â said Hugh Brogan, Sendoâ(TM)s chief executive officer.

    Translated: We tried to extort millions of dollars before filing suit, and they said no. Reminds me of IBM's past amicable actions [forbes.com].

    • Story so far (Score:5, Informative)

      by msgmonkey ( 599753 ) on Thursday June 05, 2003 @07:36PM (#6128475)
      Sendo has tech sharing agreement with MS.
      Orange has tech sharing agreement with MS.
      MS hands over Sendo tech to Orange holds back obligations to Sendo.
      Sendo gives up on it's own phone with MS software due to above.
      Sendo sues Orange for patent infringement.

      So this is n't your average money grabbing patent suit.
      • Agreed, especially if the infringement is really at the circuit design level. I'm no EE, but I would think that'd be fairly easy to prove. A lot easier than SCO's potential "Look, all their for loops use a variable named 'i' just like ours!".

  • MS is going to payoff Sendo, right? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MongooseCN ( 139203 ) on Thursday June 05, 2003 @07:22PM (#6128415) Homepage
    MS paid SCO for the license to use some vague part of SCO's unix code. So does this mean MS will pay Sendo for directly using Sendo's technology in its own OS?

    • Re:MS is going to payoff Sendo, right? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by msgmonkey ( 599753 ) on Thursday June 05, 2003 @07:31PM (#6128453)
      Nope, 'coz Sendo had an agreement where they shared their technology with MS in exchange for access to MS's OS technology. Sendo made the mistake of agreeing that if they ever went under that their tech automatically got handed over to MS so it was actually in MS's interest that they went under. Sendo basically asserted that MS was not keeping up their end of the bargain whilst Orange got all the good stuff and help they were meant to be getting.

  • hope they get a bunch (Score:5, Insightful)

    by afidel ( 530433 ) on Thursday June 05, 2003 @07:24PM (#6128420)
    I hope they get as much blood as they can from MS and a crapload from Orange as well if Orange knew that the stuff they were getting from MS was sendo's property. This was dirty business at its worst.

  • First line of the article... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bad_fx ( 493443 ) on Thursday June 05, 2003 @07:24PM (#6128422) Journal
    Mobile-phone upstart Sendo lashed out with another lawsuit...

    Doesn't that sound a little like biased reporting to anybody else? ...lashed out... another lawsuit..?

  • Any other phones infringe? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by msgmonkey ( 599753 ) on Thursday June 05, 2003 @07:25PM (#6128428)
    Or is it just this Orange one? Was n't one of the complaints Sendo had was that basically MS was taking all of it's good ideas and giving them to Orange (which is also tied into MS). Of course MS had a cross licensing thing with Sendo, but I wonder if this patent was part of that deal?

    Maybe Sendo found an area where they did n't get completely screwed over by MS?
    • Did you know that MS has been poking around the UK for mobile-phone related companies?
      Last century, MS bought STNC which makes mobile phone software (web-browser, tcp/ip stack...)
      Here's a dusty article ... Microsoft acquires Symbian partner STNC [vnunet.com]
      -- jpa
      PS: I actually helped those guys debug their tcp stack... and what a piece of crap.
    • I find it really hard to believe that MS handed over any Sendo technology to Orange. This is how it works:

      Orange is a network operator, it manufactures nothing, not paperclips, not tractors and certainly not smartphones. The phone in question is made by a Taiwanese company called HTC, who make various elctronic gadgets including the Ipaq.

      The correct name for this phone is the Canary but it is sold in Europe as the Orange SPV, presumably because most consumers haven't heard of HTC and don't really asso

  • Imaginary (Score:1, Funny)

    by exspecto ( 513607 )
    Here's how the conversation went:

    MS Lawyer: "Sure, just sendo us the documents..."
    *background laughter*

  • Wait two seconds before you spote off (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kramer2718 ( 598033 ) on Thursday June 05, 2003 @07:27PM (#6128437) Homepage
    I know that for many Slashdot readers, the reaction over a patent lawsuit defaults to "those bastards are filing frivolous lawsuits," but wait a minute before you badmouth sendo.

    The article said nothing beyond that the claim regards the design of an internal circuit board. Sendo's claim might be legit' it might be BS. We have no idea which at this point.

    If anyone actually knows anything substatial about the claim, please enlighten us all.
  • Someone should develop a "Free Patent Foundation" - with parallels to the GNU, but for intellectual discoveries, inventions, etc. Though these wouldn't make the developers a lot of money, it could really benefit humankind.
    • I'm sure many businesses would just at the opportunity to give their IP away for free. Oh wait, they are the ones who are trying to protect it most in the first place :-/
    • It would have to raise an awful lot of money to do NEthing effectively. An average patent costs $5-6k, so if you are going to be filing patents to protect "free technology", then you are going to be burning through money very quickly. It's generally much more cost effective to place discoveries in the public domain, the old fashioned way.
      However, there might be a different use of such a FPF - call it the "American Technological Liberties Union". I'm picking that moniker for a reason: we have had a zillio
  • A start-up company suing Microsoft? That's just asking to be slaughtered...
    • If Sendo can use this as leverage, even Microsoft will listen.

      Besides, what can Microsoft do to hurt Sendo? Refuse to sell Windows software to them?

      Microsoft doesn't dominate the Cell phone market. They are just another player.

  • Sounds like another case of "I have a patent and I intend on doing nothing with it. In fact, I will sue anybody who tries to do anything along the lines of what my patent describes. I will stifle innovation."

    • Re:Stupid patent system (Score:5, Informative)

      by Qzukk ( 229616 ) on Thursday June 05, 2003 @08:20PM (#6128671) Journal
      Actually, this wasn't. They had an agreement with MS to take this product to market. Unfortunately they signed a contract with a suicide clause which indicated that if they went under, MS got all their goods. Of course, Microsoft was supposed to pay them to keep them from going under...

      So naturally Microsoft didn't pay them, they went under, MS took their stuff, and Sendo sued MS over breach of contract.

      Now, at this point, the rights to the technology should be up in the air. If Microsoft broke the terms of the contract by not paying Sendo, then the contract is void and the IP is still Sendo's. But Microsoft, being the arrogant bastard it is, didn't wait for the lawsuit to end, and assumed that they could dole out the big bucks to make sure the suit ended in their favor. So they gave Sendo's IP to Orange to take Sendo's product to market.

      So, yes, this is a case of "I will sue anyone who does what my patent describes", but for once, they're justified in biting back.

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday June 05, 2003 @08:22PM (#6128680)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Microsoft had made an agreement with Sendo that should either party go bust, the other would pick up the IP rights associated with the project.

        Call me paranoid, but this paragraph would have made me just a little uneasy, considering the "winning a lottery 10 times in a row" odds of Microsoft going bust.

        Anyway, certainly the story summary was misleading. I admit I didn't RTFS. I'd just assumed it was another one of the patent-asshole-gone-money-hungry scenarios which I am thoroughly sick and tired of.
      • If sendo win this case I expect Orange could Sue M$ for selling them someone elses IP.
      • Actually, MS (allegedly) transferred the IP to HTC, who manufacture the SPV smartphone. Sendo have slapped an injunction against Orange to stop distribution of the SPV in the UK. There is a difference, you see. Since the patent is filed in several juristictions, Sendo may well enter into "aggressive negotiations" with HTC shortly. However, they don't really need to, since they can achieve their ends by preventing sale of infringing phones in any region where they have a patent. If nobody can sell the p

    • No Sir, we are british (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Please keep in mind: This is a british patent suit.
      Not everywere in the world the patent system is as f*ckt up as in the USA. And, speaking for germany, not erverywere it is expensive to fight against false patents. Not Yet. I know, some people are working on it.
      • You got the number of this patent?

        Best thing for UK - and Germany, of course - over USA is that they have judges who are actually familiar with patents, patent law and to a certain extend with technology. AFAIK, in the US, a patent suit is being done between a divorce and a robbery, in a jury trial.

        Did you know that in a no-jury trial, 67% of the patents claimed invalid is held up, whereas this figure is 75% in a jury trial? So when your patent is being challenged, always ask for a jury trial in US.

        The m

  • No Friends -- Not Friendly (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I don't know much about their patent claim, but I can say (after joining their developer program and communicating with them via email and phone), Sendo is one of the most unprofessional companies I have dealt with. I certainly wouldn't trust them (after having done so once already) by "sendoing" them any money.
  • "Sendo also sued Microsoft for allegedly stealing their technology"

    Microsoft stealing other people's tech?! Say it ain't so Bill!
  • ...couldn't Orange file a cross-complaint under the tems of the DMCA alleging that Sendo's knowledge of Orange's circuit board design stems from an effort to reverse-engineer said phones?
    • ...couldn't Orange file a cross-complaint under the tems of the DMCA

      The DCMA is a US law, Sendo is a British company and Orange is a (French owned) British company.

      So how exactly would the DCMA apply here?

  • Not content to litigate against just carbon-based lifeforms, greedy corps are now going after citrus fruits.

    Today oranges -- tomorrow kumquats, kiwis, bananas, mangoes...when will it all end, I ask?

  • With all this recent talk of patent infringement, and all of the cases of companies trying to sue. I sure wish I held the patent on a lawsuit, think of the royalties!

    I hope I didnt give anyone ideas...
  • Let this be a lesson don't do business with Microsoft. Don't liccens your technology to them don't liccens technology from them.

    Orange liccensed technology that Microsoft stold. As far as Orange knows the technology is lagit.

    Going after Orange is a bit dirty becouse they aren't the crooks and don't have all the facts.

    People have taken the SCO for cross refrence so I'll go there.
    SCO won't tell us what code is stolen from them. We can't remove the infringing code if we don't know what code they are talking
    • If this guy sells me this really cheap television set because - you know - it fell from a truck it's unfair that the law is out to get me?

      I think it's not quite as easy as you make it sound and I don't really know the terms of the deal between Microsoft and Orange. But I can fully envision that Microsoft offered Orange an absolute sweetheart of a deal, since they are desperate to get their crappy, bloated and proprietary phone "platform" to the market.

      I can further envision Orange overlooking some potenti

      • Yes, but we're not talking about buying a TV from a dodgy bloke in a pub, we're talking about the worlds leading software producer. While the Slashdot crowd (myself included) despise MS, your average business man might be forgiven for assuming that they can partner with them without being exposed to dodgy IP practices.
        • Yeah, I see where you're coming from.

          I still think it's a far shot from the stunt SCO is trying to pull off (which gets funnier by the day).

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • No, it's a respectability thing.

            Dodgy bloke in pub is not respectable, and most people would suspect that the TV was nicked or similar.

            Worlds leading software producer SHOULD be respectable. A businessman would not expect to be buying "stolen goods" from them.
            • Comment removed based on user account deletion
              • Microsoft's the one that's lost a major anti-trust action...

                True - and I was quite aware of that when I posted. Although regular /. readers are, not everyone is aware of Microsoftâ(TM)s modus operandi.

                On another note, I have a good friend who works for Symbian, and he tells me that it only took Sendo a couple of months to get Symbian working fully on their hardware.

                Everyone in the mobile phone arena is prepared for the ongoing commoditisation of hardware. The difference between Microsoft and Symbia
      • If this guy sells me this really cheap television set

        Lot's of this happends every day.. We call them flea markets.
        and then there is this website known as eBay.

        As for the similaritys between SCO and Sendo.

        Sendo clames Microsoft took technology and gave it to Orange.
        SCO clames IBM took technology and gave it to Linux.

        SCO did make one good point. It needs to be proven in cort. Of course that's not stopping SCO from threatoning Linux users.
        Still that is the same truth to Sendo. They didn't prove it in cort

  • That's it! (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by Cinematique ( 167333 )
    I'm going to sue bananas for copying my personal likeness, if you know what I mean. ;)

    Uh... yeah, I got nothin.

  • The reason Sendo is suing Orange. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by goldcd ( 587052 ) * on Friday June 06, 2003 @05:39AM (#6130558) Homepage
    Is not because they are desperately trying to get their hands on every bit of money they can - it's to send a mesage to other networks considering supplying the MS line of phones. The case should be (and is) between MS and Sendo, except MS being a big corporation is quite willing to spin it out with delays and had no real reason previously to try to come to a quick settlement. They could just carry on selling 'their' phones and keep pushing Sendo away.
    Now Sendo have been smart here by suing Orange - any other network operator who is considering which phones to carry is going to be much less likely to select the MS one. They've got no shortage of choices, the MS phone isn't particularly wonderful and now comes with the extreme likelihood of a lawsuit. Why would they want to risk it?
    Sendo will now remove most of MS's customers. MS will be in the position that until they settle the lawsuit with Sendo, nobody is going to buy their phones from them. I suspect cutting their income will be an effective way of convincing them to come to the settlement table with a large sack of cash for Sendo.

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