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UK Pushing ID Cards 43

Posted by michael from the mandatory-voluntary dept.
lga writes "David Blunkett will attempt to introduce "entitlement cards" after the next general election in the UK. This is despite an overwhelming response against the idea through stand.org.uk. Carrying the cards will not be compulsory, but registration for the national database will be. Not only that, but the cards will be paid for by a £25 price increase on passports and driving licences! More information can be had at The Register and The Guardian."
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UK Pushing ID Cards More

UK Pushing ID Cards

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  • I wonder... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Mensa Babe ( 675349 ) on Friday May 23, 2003 @01:05PM (#6025608) Homepage Journal
    ...how long before someone will compromise the database. I have yet to see a security solution, developed in a closed environment, which is indeed secure. (GSM, anyone?) I wish more people had read Bruce Schneier's books. But what do I know? I don't have lobbiests in EU... *sigh*

  • I want to know (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cassidyc ( 167044 ) on Friday May 23, 2003 @01:13PM (#6025677)
    Why do we need yet another form of forgable identification. I have a passport and a drivers license, I can get credit cards with my phot on them, all of which go to identify me as a person. Does having an ID card stop criminals? I don`t think any of the european countries have had a sudden drop in crime because of it. Will it stop terrorism? No more than passports have I suppose. But then I'm just a pleb that that think that the government is there at out sufferance to serve our purposes, and I don`t think I asked them to start implimenting ID cards.

    But maybe thats just me.

    CJC
    • I want full access to all David Blunkenfucks and co communications. I want national insurance, passport and driving licence numbers and biometric info. FAIR EXCHANGE IS NO ROBBERY. WHAT'S GOOD FOR US MUST BE GOOD FOR 'THEM'.

      So as soon as I have full unrestricted access to this information for the entire government and our senior civil servants. They can have my details for their database.

      Fair is fair!

    • Why do we need yet another form of forgable identification.

      Rejoice, for your government has anticipated your concern! The esteemed correspondent of the Guardian has been given to understand - and a nudge is as good as a wink to a dead horse, remember - that

      Under Mr Blunkett's proposal, the card is expected to carry name, date of birth, address, employment status, sex, photo, national insurance, passport and driving licence numbers, and a password or PIN to authorise transactions. It will also carry "biometr

  • ehhehe :-) so who exactly is opposing ID cards - they get my vote.

  • Not the UK too? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by GuyMannDude ( 574364 ) on Friday May 23, 2003 @01:18PM (#6025715) Journal

    David Blunkett will attempt to introduce "entitlement cards" after the next general election in the UK. This is despite an overwhelming response against the idea through stand.org.uk.

    And not too long ago the UK went to war with Iraq despite the overwhelming response against the idea. I guess the US isn't the only "democracy" (or representative republic) that ignores the will of the people. I don't know whether to feel sorry for the British or feel relieved that we in the US will have company "at the bottom".

    GMD

    • Unfortunately thats the choice you make with a representative republic. You elect leaders whom you believe will do the right thing. Now, its open for debate whether the "right thing" that they should do is to vote how their constituencies want- or vote how they think something should actually work. It appears in this case the latter is happening. If this were really a government killing deal (like say, making all people stand on their head and pick their nose on their 21st birthday by law) then they'd j
    • The UK is a constitutional monarchy and not yet a republic.

  • Hmmm.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by FroMan ( 111520 ) on Friday May 23, 2003 @01:23PM (#6025757) Homepage Journal
    Where is the outrage? Where is the "End of the world!", "Only in capitalistic GB is this possible!", "The government hates us and will kill us all!"?

    Any time the US thinks of anything of this sort we have people flocking to Canada or better yet China, where they still have freedoms. This has been posted almost 30 minutes when I reply here, yet there is not a single post modded above 2 (my threshold).

    When the US even thinks of doing a national id card/database there is outrage and hate and spittle against the US. Why not when GB thinks of doing this?
    • This story is/was still in "The Mysterious Future"- meaning that a great number of people with modpoints cant see it yet. You cant mod what you cant see...
      • This story is/was still in "The Mysterious Future"

        Well, if it is in the Mysterious future, you cannot post to it and thus moderators have no business moderating inexisting posts. Moderators and posters are unleashed at the same time.BR> I know, I am a subscriber. You cannot post until it's really on the frontpage.

    • When the US even thinks of doing a national id card/database there is outrage and hate and spittle against the US. Why not when GB thinks of doing this?
      The majority of slashdotters seem to be American. They, along with most people, don't care about what doesn't affect them. And British ID cards affect them just as much as African hunger. Unless, of course, their in Britain or Africa ;)

    • Re:Hmmm.... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Toraz Chryx ( 467835 )
      Hi, I'm English, if this passes, I'm OUT OF HERE.

      There, satisfied?

      (I'm entirely serious too.. I didn't vote for our current government, I'm not about to sit back and go 'ah well, I asked for it'))
      • Sure, that is fine.

        My point was, USians, EUians, CAians, everyone will come out and talk trash about the US here on slashdot, but everything else seems to be a sacred cow. Oh, this is slashdot, we don't say bad things about France when they are being idiots, instead we say China is the bastion of freedom in the world now. Slashdot seems like more sheep now than a place of objective discussion.

        There are a few folks here that seem to look objectively at things, but that number is very small.

        Look at the N
        • This article didn't make it to the main page. I think that's why you don't see as many responses.
        • Then, did we go in and steal all the oil, nope. Instead we saved the oil wells so that the...

          You mean burning the oil wells would have been stealing? I would call burning them pillaging, not stealing. You can steal the oil after you save them, not after you have burned them. Not burning them is not no-stealing by itself.

          No proof of any foul play there of course. Not yet. But I would be seriously suprised if the US would not get more oil from iraq compared to other countries dealing with Iraq's oil. Pr

  • Fearmongering doesn't help (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Sentry21 ( 8183 ) on Friday May 23, 2003 @01:40PM (#6025953) Journal
    There haven't been any posts yet, but I look forward to getting home and reading quite a lot of FUD posts about how they're taking away our rights and the government is coming to get you, and how having an ID card is one step away from martial law and taking away your homes. Fun.

    Let's look at some facts. Some countries which currently have national ID cards are Israel, Germany, Austria, Norway, France, Sweden, and Finland. How many of these are police states?

    Only one, and that's justified when people are trying to blow you up. Still, even in Israel, there's no loss of privacy. Security guards are posted at the entrance to every mall, and military personnel are on every corner, but none of them ever asked me for ID. They'll search your bags, sure, but not in depth. If you looked suspicious, they'd probably wave you over to check you out, but I don't know of anyone who's been unfairly hassled for their ID card. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it doesn't seem to happen often enough.

    Norway, Sweden, and Finland, very socialist countries, people-oriented. (Relatively) strong economies, technologically sound, and very 'european'. France, Germany, and Austria, say what you will, but Germany isn't 'like that' anymore. Well, some people are, but not the country as a whole. Police states? Not hardly. In fact, in the EU, it's largely trivial to cross borders between countries compared to elsewhere in the world. That doesn't seem suspicious.

    In Israel, you use your national ID number for such things as military service, but you don't have to use the ID card as ID - you can use a passport. Doesn't matter though, since either way, the point is to prove who you are. In Germany, you can use official documents, but the ID card is popular. In Austria, paper birth certificates are used commonly, in France the ID card or passport is used. Sweden can use a multitude of cards with your civil number, and in Finland, an ID card, passport, driver's license, or social security card.

    In the US, there is no 'national ID card', but you can't drive without a license, and in most US cities, public transportation isn't practical, so cars are very important to most people. There is a Social Security Number, which you do not have to show people that aren't the IRS or your employer, but everyone asks for it anyway, and most people give it up because they don't care, or don't want to deal with the hassle. Plus, most Americans use credit cards, so if the government wanted to track you for terrorism, they could court-order VISA or your bank and find out where you spend your money anyway.

    In Canada, there is also no national ID card, but no one asks for your Social Insurance Number either. It's usually very easy to get around middling-to-large cities using public transportation, but for any degree of travel outside of the major metropolitan areas, a car is needed. This results in dozens of disparate licenses, which don't all follow the same patterns, and therefore I could forge an old (4 years, I haven't seen them recently) Alberta driver's license, then go to BC and use it as ID, since it's plastic with pictures printed on it, basically. If I went to Nova Scotia, it could be the most horrible fake on the planet, and most police wouldn't know the difference. I understand the same is true in the US.

    What would a National ID card do? It would provide one card, which could be identified by everyone, and would be harder to fake (laser-engraved holograms, like on BCID, would be effective, when combined with other methods). It would let all stores ask for one specific piece of ID, and thus remove barriers - for example, in British Columbia, both President's Choice Financial and Roger's Video - very large national chains - would not give me an account without a BCID or BC driver's license. I had a birth certificate, an Alberta driver's license, my Social Insurance Card, two pieces of student ID, a library card, and a passport, but still, they needed BCID. Thus, to have the privilege of doing b
    • The problem with national ids is not that they might be convenient. The problem is that they are enabling technologies for what could be very, very evil.

      If you think about common interactions with government or private businesses, identity is almost never actually needed. When it is, various specific ways of determining who you are are perfectly valid, and have been used for hundreds of years. That a national ID would be easier is not a justification. Think about the root problem for a second.

      When conside
      • > The problem is that they are enabling technologies for what could be very, very evil.

        So are many other technologies. But I think it is less the question of what technologies you are employing, but wether you are aware of the risks and what counter-measurements are installed.

        The states of the EU have enacted relatively strict privacy-laws. And those requiring a national ID are especially precaucious arbout what data is stored and can be connected with the ID. I think that is the critical part.

        > "w

  • Where can I find freedom? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    UK doing national IDs under the guise of "entitlements"... They learned well from the US Social Security Administration. The now-ubiquitous SSN which is often mistaken by clueless citizens, businesses and governments as a useful identifier was originally pushed as being *only* for SSA use. They swore up and down, in the face of popular concern that the SSN would become a national identifier, that no such thing would ever occur. In the end, it has become the bad-boy poster-child for function creep, used b
  • I can't wait until we can do away with these identification cards and use the 666 on our foreheads or hands to do business. Take a lesson from Gattica and The Minority Report, the day will come we ALL people will be identifiable by either their DNA, iris, or any part of thier body being cataloged in a national/global database. They will be able to track our movements a la Minority Report and 1984, no our fate a la Gattica, peer into our transactions (ummm, they can do that already). We are near a cashles

  • Typical (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Fiveeight ( 610936 )

    This whole thing is fucking sleazy, first [theregister.co.uk] the government runs an unpublicised "consultation exercise" which draws 1500 responses which are 2 to 1 in favour. Then El Reg [theregister.co.uk] and NTK [ntk.net] run it on the front page, over 5000 people comment against it in a couple of days and the government appears to back down [theregister.co.uk]. Victory for the good guys, everyone can go back down the pub.

    Well, until the government decided to lose all those irritating negative comments [ntk.net] submitted through websites (including mine), leaving them with 2000

    • Oh, and don't forget that this system will be contracted out to someone like EDS, so it'll be a disaster. Does anyone know of any major UK government IT project in the last decade that wasn't a total abortion?

  • What worries me (Score:3, Interesting)

    by isorox ( 205688 ) on Saturday May 24, 2003 @05:29AM (#6030130) Homepage Journal
    The government not listening to the people is nothing new. What worries me is the opinion on BBC News Talking point [bbc.co.uk].

    Why are we even bothering with the sheer waste of money this will turn out to be? What should happen is everyone born in, or entering the country should have a DNA sample taken and held on file. Once this is held on a national database then with only minimal effort crime and fraud will be slashed and I won't have to worry about carrying a pointless piece of plastic around with me when I go to the beach or clubbing on a Saturday night.

    I currently have the freedom to walk in public without any bank cards, utility bills or passport, if I wish. These can all be used to prove my identity. How long would it be before I found that carrying this ID card was mandatory or at least necessary to live without prejudice?


    The sooner the better. They may not solve every problem we have, but they will help. I have nothing to hide, and only those who have need worry. Rather big brother than the big bills for continued and growing fraud. Anyone who needs to prove ID of customers, such as those in banks etc will find it a godsend.

    Why not? If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

  • Okay so how do you kill a smart card? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mikerich ( 120257 ) on Saturday May 24, 2003 @04:52PM (#6032350)
    With the current state of British politics, Blunkett is going to get his latest bit of Big Brother technology. The 'Opposition' is a waste of space, and the Labour Party has no spine. Blunkett, for some strange reason is in Blair's favour and a good contendor to take over the Party when Blair finally takes up his desired American citizenship.

    Blunkett is a serial offender; even amongst all the members of the Cabinet, he has to be the worst of the lot. He screwed up education when he was minister there - and look what's happening there right now - unwanted tests, an exam system in chaos and schools on the point of collapse. Since going to the Home Office, he's picked on the judicial system for not being as populist as he is and been in a race with John Ashcroft to see who can introduce the most totalitarian laws.

    Put it like this, he's making Michael Howard look liberal.

    We're all going to need these cards if we want to do anything like open a bank account, claim our state entitlements, travel outside of the UK, get a job... and we're going to have to pay £25 for a card.

    Blunkett has been told by fellow ministers, IT experts and the general public (as part of a so-called 'consultation exercise') that the technology is neither feasible, useful or wanted.

    So, one question - how do you kill a smart card without obviously damaging the card? Electricity, the microwave, the hot cycle?

    And as for Blunkett? I feel sorry for his guide dog.

    Best wishes,
    Mike.

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