Suing Telemarketers Made Simple 351
Lord of the Distinctive Rings writes "Telemarketer calls victim in wee hours. Victim is lawyer. Victim sues telemarketer. Hilarity ensues, as recounted in narrative replete with links and information on how you too can sue up the wazoo." Well, one's certainly not ever going to get rich or anything going after telemarketers on a one-off basis, but every bit helps, I think.
I can't wait... (Score:4, Insightful)
HURRY UP!!
Re:I can't wait... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I can't wait... (Score:5, Informative)
Keep em on the phone. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Keep em on the phone. (Score:4, Funny)
Shit... I should have stayed on the line those last 12 time whoever the prerecorded hell it was called and tried to offer me a Disney vacation... I could have afforded to go by now...
Kierthos
Re:Keep em on the phone. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Keep em on the phone. (Score:4, Funny)
What you do, if the caller is real, anyway, is say, "Just a sec'... I'm just going to get a pen..." put the phone down (without hanging up) and... well... go back to watching the tv/scratching your balls or whatever.
>:o)
Re:Keep em on the phone. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Keep em on the phone. (Score:5, Funny)
That reminds me of the time my parent's answering machine got into an infinite loop with an autodialler. Somehow, the answering machine beep caused the spiel to restart and that spiel ended with a beep. That beep, I guess, was misinterpreted as an attempt to access the remote "check my messages" feature of the answering machine. The password failure resulted in the same beep. Which, if you see above, caused the spiel to restart -- and end with a beep.
The 60 minute tape was filled with the same spiel 60 times in a row with two beeps to seperate.
Re:Keep em on the phone. (Score:2)
Re:Keep em on the phone. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Keep em on the phone. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Keep em on the phone. (Score:3, Informative)
The best way to get rid of telemarketers. (Score:4, Funny)
Eventually, one of my roomates, Matt, discovered the best solution. Once, a telemarketer called, and asked, "Are you Matthew *****"? His reply: "I don't know". Yes, that's right. "I don't know". As in, "I don't even know my own name, I'm definitely not responsible enough to own my own credit card. You must have dialed into a Home by mistake. Try this number again and Big Nurse will open up a can of tele-whoopass on you". Needless to say, he wasn't bothered for another three months. Before that, it was about twice a week. And that, my fellow readers, is how to get rid of telemarketers.
Re:The best way to get rid of telemarketers. (Score:5, Funny)
You'll be on their black list in no time.
Re:The best way to get rid of telemarketers. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:The best way to get rid of telemarketers. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Keep em on the phone. (Score:5, Interesting)
In order to raise the productivity of their employees, they save them the time dialing, recognizing answering machine, ringing-and-ringing, busy signals, tone waiting etc.
How? The use these machines which are called predictive dialers. Why predictive, you ask? because they predict when the next agent will end her call, and based upon lots of parameters (call duration, busy signal rate by time of day, time to recognize voicemails etc.) - will place a call BEFORE that agent hangs up, so the moment she hangs up - she has the next call ready for her, with an actual person on the line.
Now, it is rather clear that if you hold just one agent on the line for a LONG time, then you screw every statistics the predictive dialer has, and so the agents lose sync with the dialer, and as a result - their productivity dives....
Which is what we wanted.
Re:Keep em on the phone. (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not just while the call is goin, either- the dialer uses that call as part of its statistics for the entire calling job, so for several hours it's running on poor data.
It was a fun couple of summers (I never did outward calling, but I took inward, angry, card-cancellation calls the first summer I worked there), but I'll never do that again!
Re:Keep em on the phone. (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps there is a way to signal the dialer when they get a sucker on the line, so as not to mess up the stats?
Re:Keep em on the phone. (Score:5, Informative)
The dialer is dialing a certain number of calls based upon how quickly the agents are coming available. If you keep an agent on the phone for longer than a few seconds, the dialer recognizes this and drops them from the number of agents that will be available.
After all, they are trying to sell you something. The dialer has to be able to compensate for long calls, because I doubt any agent can sell you something in the time it takes someone else to hang up.
And just so you know I am not talking out of my ass, I used to be an admin on a dialer, so I do have some experience with this.
Re:Keep em on the phone - good idea! (Score:5, Funny)
While reading these comments (at 9:15am), I got a call from an obvious telemarketer (couldn't pronounce my dad's name right...) so I decided to keep them on the phone, just to see how long they would actually wait (I'm unemployed, and living at home, so I've got nothing but time on my hands). I told her to hold on while I got my dad, and proceeded to just sit there listening. I didn't say another word for the entire 13 minutes and 42 seconds that the telemarketer actually waited for me to come back! I almost burst out laughing several times when I heard her sigh or start humming a little tune.
It brought a smile to my face on an otherwise boring, unemployed day of my life...
Re:Keep em on the phone. (Score:3, Interesting)
For "charities" (police benevolence society or whatever), ask them how much goes to the "cause", and how much is used for admin and overhead. They'll offer an 800 number, try to get THEM to call the number. I try to convice them they are working for crooks. Quote GWB's "you're either on the side of good, or the side of evil".
I don't know if it does any good, but it always makes me feel better.
Re:Keep em on the phone. (Score:3, Funny)
Sweet. (Score:5, Funny)
Ring....Please Ring..
Finally? (Score:5, Funny)
whoa, they screwed the pooch on that one! (Score:4, Funny)
Considering your screen name of jonJOHNSON I'd say that is QUITE a mis-pronounciation!
Re:Finally? (Score:3, Funny)
Finally one rainy day my grandpa WAS in the house and happened to answer the phone.
"Is the man of the house in?"
"This is..."
<telemarketer begins sales pitch>
"I'm sorry, my wife makes all the financial decisions" <CLICK>
This is cool (Score:5, Informative)
Rus
Agreed, also for Fax and Junk Mail (Score:4, Insightful)
I signed my parents Pub up on this list and the Fax Preference System (and the Mail P S), and within two months the amount of sales calls and reams of wasted fax paper went down to zero... a customer of ours was lamenting to us about the same problems with his phone and fax line, and he wouldn't believe us that it worked (one month later though he was most impressed).
Ever since signing up to this opt out scheme, we've only ever had ONE sales phone call, and fortunately I was there to 'casually' inform them that if we were not removed from their (and any company shared) contact list, that they were liable for a very big fine, and that they were in violation of the opt-out list to which they are meant to adhere to and risked criminal prosecution for violation of (not sure if it was true, but it added significant weight to our argument)... it's a call that left me feeling very empowered for a change!
TPS Online [tpsonline.org.uk] - with links to the sister sites for FaxPS, MailPS and even e-mailPS... although I never bothered with the latter, considering the amount of e-mail sources that is way out of their control.
Yes! YES!!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Yes! YES!!!! (Score:3, Interesting)
Do not need to use do not call lists, can call you over and over, can use pre recoreded messages.
I think 75% of the Tele calls I receive to day from from such "non-profit organizations".
Andy Rooney sez... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Andy Rooney sez... (Score:5, Informative)
I don't know how the system works where you live, but here a lot of "Reply Paid" stuff is barcoded and they could (theoretically) find out who you are by scanning that barcode.
Re:Andy Rooney sez... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Andy Rooney sez... (Score:2, Funny)
Wouldn't that be even better? This way they know what to expect from you and (hopefully) that will result in less spam from them. Simple calculation: this potential customer costs us more maney than we can possible earn from this him/her.
And since you do nothing illegal, no need for fear! In the easiest case send them their empty envelope back. You can always say that you forgot to put something in.
Re:Andy Rooney sez... (Score:3, Informative)
The barcode you refer to (a long one just above the delivery address or in the bottom right-hand corner, right?) is simply their mailing address in barcode format. It's to speed up the delivery process somewhat.
Re:Andy Rooney sez... (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, the *people* (as opposed to the companies) who make the telemarketing calls often *love* when people do this. It gets their talk time up; it shows their superiors that they're can keep someone on the phone for a long time, presumably talking about their product. I'd even bet the telemarketing companies (assuming they're hired by whoever is selling the product) like it too. The only party who doesn't like this is the company paying for telemarketing, but the telemarketers themselves often love it.
Re:Andy Rooney sez... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Andy Rooney sez... (Score:5, Interesting)
But seriously, telemarketers get paid a base rate per hour ($7.00 in my case), plus an hourly bonus based on how many sales he/she made. For example, if you made three sales in the 4pm-5pm hour, you would make $9.00 in that hour. If you consistently made six sales an hour, you would be making about $12.00 an hour. In my case, I wasn't bothered by people putting me on hold because I was still making over minimum wage, but without the hassle. I imagine people who do this full time wouldn't be pleased when people, such as me, play stupid games to keep them on the phone. I've been on the other side of the games, so I feel it's my duty to return the favor.
Re:Andy Rooney sez... (Score:5, Informative)
More specifically, my information says that when you don't hear anyone on the other line what has happened is that the system they use which automatically calls people based on the average call time of their employees, has misestimated when to call (or all the employees are unavailable), so there's a silent pause. If the pause is long enough, the computer simply hangs up. Consequently, anyone who calls me from an unlisted number and gives me silence for three seconds or so I hang up on. If it's someone important, they'll call right back.
Re:Andy Rooney sez... (Score:2)
Re:Andy Rooney sez... (Score:5, Funny)
If you really want to keep them guessing, throw in a pinch of cornstarch.
Re:Andy Rooney sez... (Score:3, Insightful)
How to identify 'Out of Area' on called id? (Score:4, Insightful)
that's illegal too (Score:2, Insightful)
(IANAL etc)
Re:that's illegal too (Score:2)
We don't have to pay to receive calls, though :-)
Re:that's illegal too (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:How to identify 'Out of Area' on called id? (Score:3, Interesting)
You can't, but the telco can. Unfortunately, they don't seem to be required to give you that information. At one point, before I started insisting on DNCs and saw the dropoff, I actually opened a case with the cops and had traces on my line -- of course, I got a form letter from the telco saying they couldn't "find enough information to generate a complaint". BS.
Re:How to identify 'Out of Area' on called id? (Score:2)
Re:How to identify 'Out of Area' on called id? (Score:5, Interesting)
"OUT OF AREA" Explained (Score:5, Informative)
ARS? (Score:5, Funny)
Did you leave out the 'E' at the end?
I know telemarketers suck, but... (Score:2, Insightful)
Too bad he couldn't just extort the name of the phone number list seller out of the guy, and go after "the dealer."
Re:I know telemarketers suck, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
But he did at least 2 things wrong.
#1 He is calling people in the middle of the night, this is not acceptable.
#2 He didn't identify himself when he called, this is also a violation.
Both of these are wrong, you take away #1, and you're left with #2, which at the very least meant that he didn't properly look into what he was doing.
Also I hate telemarketers, and door to door soliciters, I just tell them no I won't support their cause because I hate people calling/coming to my door.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Business Owner Too Dumb to Deserve $500 (Score:3, Insightful)
A landscaper who is too clueless to know that an autodialer i
Whatever ,troll (Score:5, Insightful)
Guess who I DON'T call when I need my gutters cleaned?!
Just because you run a business doesn't mean you are gauranteed to make money and not have honest efforts to plug your business backfire in your face. And if you ignore the laws governing your conduct don't be surprised when you get slapped.
Now I know your retort will be "well! The law code is so hard that the average person can't understand it and can't afford a lawyer to double check the legality of every action! WAAAAAAAA!"
My response? He just got a lesson in the law. And it only cost him $500.
Life isn't fair. Get a helmet and an unlisted number.
P.S.- The Washington Post had a great article on all the scam handymen in the region. So while you say actually works hard for that $500 I say he ripped off some old lady while cleaning her gutters and "reshingled" her roof. Both of our conjectures have one thing in common: there is no proof of either of them.
Honest bidnezmens (Score:5, Funny)
He bought an autodialer with the expressed intent of telemarketing his business. He knew that what he was doing is held in very low regard by the general population, and he did it anyway.
The arguement you often hear of "but I was just trying to make a living" applies equally well to crack dealers as to telemarketers.
In fact:
Wowbagger's top 5 reasons why crack dealers are better than telemarketers
5) Some people actually WANT what the crack dealer sells.
4) Crack dealers don't knock on my door while I'm having dinner and say "You want to buy some crack?"
3) When you tell them you aren't interested, crack dealers leave you alone.
2) Crack dealers don't give your name and number to other people (except, perhaps, to law enforcement).
1) Crack dealers AREN'T TELEMARKETERS!
Just kill your local land line. (Score:5, Insightful)
But here's the sweet bit... You never get telemarketed at! (Obviously you shouldn't be doing stupid stuff like giving it out to businesses.) And you don't have to worry about annoying late-night calls, as most providers give you free voice mail, so you can just turn off the phone or put it in silent mode.
Re:Just kill your local land line. (Score:3, Interesting)
Care to share the secret with us? My wife and I both changed our cell phone numbers recently and within days we were recieving telemarketing calls. I had mine for less than a day or so and I got an automated computer voice trying to sell me a way to avoid calls like this in the future!
Of course in my case it may have been different - I got a call from someone trying to track down someone else, so I probably had someone's old phone number, but I can't explain my wife's as an
Re:Just kill your local land line. (Score:3, Informative)
I have only recived one telemarketing call on my cell phone over the last 2 years i've had it. and that was AT&T Broadband (who i use for cable modem, and cable TV) who has the number listed as contact for my current service. They were trying to sell me an upgrade to digital cable. I said, "This is a cell phone, it is illegal to call cell phones,
Re:Just kill your local land line. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Just kill your local land line. (Score:5, Insightful)
Likewise, dialing 911 from a landline and leaving the phone off the hook will usually result in somebody coming to investigate, as they can figure out where you are. Not always so with a cell phone.
In a medical emergency, those minor differences could turn into life-or-death differences. Some folks just aren't willing to take that risk.
We're not quite at the point where the majority of people are comfortable with losing their normal phone service. In my home, for example, I get lousy reception on my mobile phone -- if I'm talking on the mobile phone, I'm usually confined to finding the "right spot" in the house and not moving much. Even then, the difference in quality is clear (no pun intended).
Australia (Score:2)
Re:Australia (Score:2, Interesting)
That's just crazy.. But of course, they wouldn't be doing it if they didn't make money off of it, so the best solution is to have no-one ever buy anything over the phone from a telemarketer. This would be the same reason that spam is still going strong. Enough people actually buy the
Re:Australia (Score:2)
Doesn't stop me putting them on hold, though :-)
There is always a work around (Score:2, Insightful)
This, like many laws aimed at criminals, would make things marginally more inconvenient for honest people while ignoring the criminals.
Still get calls? (Score:5, Insightful)
For anyone who wants to cut down on calls, without trying the approach of using the courts, I would higly suggest this method.
g
Devil's Advocate (Score:2, Insightful)
Ok... This might be a bit trollish, but...
Someone needs to explain to me why "hilarity ensues" when an attorney sues a telemarketer, but it doesn't ensue when an attorney sends a cease and desist order?
Shouldn't the attorney have just called this poor landscaper up and asked him to stop making calls first?
Re:Devil's Advocate (Score:2)
Re:Devil's Advocate (Score:2)
Yes, a rational person would probably try that, but as a lawyer, hell, he didn't even have to chase an ambulance for this job, it came to him!!
You can't give a lawyer a potential, direct, personal lawsuit and expect them to "turn the other cheek" LOL
Telemarketers are a pain in the ass.....I've been playing modem handshakes at the automated calls recently, in hope that it'll think its a data/fax line.
Re:Devil's Advocate (Score:3, Funny)
1.
2. It's "funny" when someone you hate suffers. For example: If Bill Gates was diagnosed with a terminal cancer, the
It would be a geek tragedy.
Must've been an AT-5000 (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Must've been an AT-5000 (Score:3, Funny)
Hmmm, eternal happiness for a dollar, you say? I think I would be much happier with the dollar.
every drop helps (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:every drop helps (Score:3, Interesting)
And how much will 1 million x (costs of conducting a trial) hurt our legal system ? Are there even 1 million lawsuits filed in the entire U.S. each year ?
I guess I missed it... (Score:3, Interesting)
Exactly where was the "hilarity?" This is just a short article on how he tracked down the guy with some simple online tools and then sued him under a law he was familiar with. There isn't even any wackiness or insanity here. It's just, well, kinda boring.
Only if the telemarketer is stupid.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Only if the telemarketer is stupid.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Useful resources for suing telemarketers. (Score:5, Informative)
Suing Telemarketers without those sneaky lawyers taking your money! [smallclaim.info]
Suing Telemarketers by Ben Livingston - they say he's crazy, but I say he's a hero! [tabletnewspaper.com]
Remove.org - you can add yourself to the global do not contact list to opt out of all advertisements! [google.com]
SueTelemarketers.com - because they take away minutes of my free time when I'm trying to eat food, I invest hours of my free time trying to track down and sue telemarketers one by one. [suetelemarketers.com]
That's all. Good night, and good luck!
Does the fine seem a little high (Score:4, Insightful)
This is irritating, but do we really thin kthe crime is bad enough to charge an individual a potential $5 000 000 (assuming 10 000 irate victims)?
Do we need MORE lawsuits? (Score:5, Insightful)
At first I was all for this attorney, but then I read his comment about filing in small claims court being "addictive". You know what? Instead of enacting revenge, and passing on all of the bad feelings that you accumulate, why not try to change things by starting with yourself?
Ironically, people who are angry all the time piss me off! Hey, the marketer had it coming, but do you think the $500 the lawyer got really did anything? If the guy is cold calling people, he doesn't have many scruples, and will get that $500 back somehow. He didn't learn any lesson. Now you might think that the solution is that EVERYONE should sue him, but it isn't. We've created this money driven society ourselves, so who can blame the people who try to capitalize on it. What, you think you are above it? Have you ever cheated on your tax returns, tried to screw some company because of a pricing error, voided a warranty on a product and tried to return it? Even if you have never been taken in by greed, now is not the time to start. Hey, it's tough, I know. But I have finally just become so sick of it that I am trying not to be like that. But in the U.S. it is very hard, because we are all about money money money, consume consume consume.
We are ALL part of this society, and the only way to change it is by starting with yourself. I am not about to cheer a lawyer for suing a telemarketer, any more than I would cheer Hilary Rosen for kicking Bill Gates in the nuts.
Re:Do we need MORE lawsuits? (Score:3, Funny)
I don't think I would cheer her either but I would certainly download the mpg file of it from p2p!
My Favorite Line: (Score:5, Funny)
Heh-heh, well said!
UK residents - telephone preference (Score:4, Interesting)
I dialed 1471 & got their number (unusually, they normally hide their number), and called the BT telephone nuisance line. They told me that they get 100,000 calls a month about telephone spam. They looked up the number & said that they knew the company well, but aren't allowed to tell me who they were.
They told me to phone 0800 398893 the telephone preference people. I followed the procedure and gave my number. A month from that date it is a criminal offence for these guys to phone me, I gather that they do obey it since there is a fine of several thousand pounds per call.
Hopefully that will be the last time that these vermin bother me.
Oh, I think that this guy may be one lawyer that I don't immediately regard as a social vulture.
TCPA vs. TCPA (Score:2)
A TCPA that protects the consumer? That's some good irony! For a second there I thought through my knee-jerk acronym recoginzing radar that the TCPA (which is a specification and an organization, not a law of course) had been expanded to cover phone fraud and annoyance.
claim you're "recording" them (Score:5, Interesting)
Worth a try, I've never used it because I only get calls that are just dead air...must be the Illuminati or something.
Re:claim you're "recording" them (Score:3, Informative)
The dead air calls are caused by automated dialers. A telemarketer will typically have more lines than sales people. Say you have 20 lines and 10 reps, the lines would all be dialed..some get busy signals, so are not in service, and some get answered. The first 10 people that pick up instantly get transferred to a
Re:claim you're "recording" them (Score:4, Insightful)
2nd, wouldnt telling them *that they are being recorded* satisfy the requirement that they know *they are being recorded*?!?!
Win-Win (Score:3, Funny)
Oh, good. There aren't enough lawsuits.
Telemarketers vs. Lawyers in an epic Battle to the Death!
I know a lot of people who would consider that a win-win situation.
Pretend you're a business (Score:3, Interesting)
So now I answer my home phone as if I were at work. Mwahaha!
Please send $1 to... (Score:3, Funny)
Evergreen Terrace, Springfield
Telemarketers are easily confused. (Score:5, Funny)
I frequently get marketing calls for my grandfather, and I've found that the BEST response is:
"I'm sorry, he's dead. Can I take a message?"
They very rarely leave messages, although one or two have asked when would be a better time call back.
Re:Telemarketers are easily confused. (Score:3, Funny)
This is, indeed, the best response..
In the late 80's, I started getting phone calls for "Leanne" - they came at all hours of the day and night, and from different people.. Since I'd had the phone number for 3 years, I could only assume that this "Leanne" person couldn't remember her own phone number.
After a couple of weeks of this, I was woken up at 3:30 in the morning by one of these calls.. when they asked for Leanne, I told them "No,
the next bugaboo: intntl telemarketers! (Score:3)
No awe, just shock. (Score:4, Funny)
Instead of asking them to hold on or following a script I enjoy the opportunity of letting my imagination run wild. I find the funniest exchanges take place with plain old phone sex. If you're good you can keep them on the line for more than 15 minutes. The object is to keep them on the line until YOU decide to end the call.
Start with-
Are you wearing underwear? What color?
Ask if they're touching themself during the call. Tell them you are.
Ask if they are over 18. If they say yes, ask if they would like to meet in person. Tell them you will send them a plane ticket. Or tell them you'll meet them at the side door at the end of their shift.
They either won't know what to say or will tell you the call is being recorded. Say "I know... I listen to my tapes late at night..."
You get the idea.
Method to deal with Junk Faxes. (Score:5, Funny)
1] If the return fax is an 800 # great!
2] If not make sure your fax # is on an unlimited long distance plan
3] Tape 3-4... 8.5 by 11 sheets together
4] Write on them "UNSOLICITED FAXING IS AGAINST FEDRAL LAW!!!!"
5] Feed into fax machine and tape the first sheet to the last sheet.
6] Program the return fax # into your fax.
7] Hit send key !!!
8] If you feel like it stop the call on Monday, unless you have already run the junk faxer out of paper and the call is already stopped!
us laws wont stop them. (Score:3, Interesting)
Formatting. (Score:4, Informative)
Apparently, over the years, MS has made Word more and more generic and LESS suited to legal use than it was in the past. Meanwhile, Corel realized that they have a good hold on the niche market of law firms, and began specifically catering to law firms.
As a result, WP evolved into a vastly superior application for law firms. It's a niche market for Corel, but a VERY solid niche.