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The Almighty Buck Your Rights Online

Belgium To Tax Rewritable CDs 57

Posted by timothy from the hopefull-not-ogg-hours dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The Belgian federal government will quietly introduce a tax on rewritable CDs on May 1, the office of the country's minister of economy confirmed. Officially called a "compensation for personal use," the tax will add 12 euro cents (13 cents) per hour to the price of a CD-R. The proceeds are earmarked for composers, copyright holders and performers. Here is the scoop."
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Belgium To Tax Rewritable CDs More

Belgium To Tax Rewritable CDs

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  • (BTW wouldn't logically rewritable CDs = CD-RW?).

    I'm probably an anomaly - so far most of my CD-Rs are backups of my PC data and stuff like tools - e.g. memtest86, antivirus bootcds and so on.

    • I think it's a mistake in the article.

      More interesting is the question: what is the point of taxing rewritable media? If you pay for being rewritable (CD-RW costs a lot more than CD-R), chances are, that you will not keep the stuff on it for long. Probably you won't be using CD-RW's to build your personal CD library copied from wherever.

      I would be interested to see the justification (as the English article doesn't seem to have any). (The fact that casette tapes are rewritable too doesn't count as one :)

      O

  • Copying is fine! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by OpperNerd ( 16084 ) on Tuesday April 29, 2003 @03:13AM (#5832321) Homepage
    So copying music to cdrw is fine, you have already payed.
    • Copying music to RWCD was already fine, and it was free before.

      What's next? An air tax? To pay for the air that you will breath? And will someone say "OK, now breathing is fine, because you have already payed."
    • So copying music to cdrw is fine, you have already payed. (sp. paid)
      In the US, use the Music CDR for the pre-paid royalty. So far the Data CDR is not for music. It's still considered a data format, not a music format. I'm still not clear if an MP3 is a data format or a music format since it will not play in most CD players.
      I have a bunch of Audio CDR's for my music. I wouldn't want to be accused of piracy!

  • Options (Score:3, Insightful)

    by storem ( 117912 ) on Tuesday April 29, 2003 @03:33AM (#5832363) Homepage
    There are few options in this scenario:
    • Buy before May 1st (law is know since Jan 1st) : Who doesn't have a few hundred CD-R's at home?
    • From anywhere in Belgium drive 100 miles and you find yourself in another country. : 5 miles in my case (France)
    • Start using DVD-R's : 650MB is too small anyway to backup all my data
    I'm not saying anyone should copy music. Buy the CD if you like it!
    • At least one country I know of already has a "tax" of also around ten eurocents on CD-R media: Spain. Looks like it is going to be all over Europe soon. Sorry couldn't find any links though.

    • Re:Options (Score:3, Interesting)

      by amorsen ( 7485 )
      There is an EU directive forcing all EU members to implement some kind of levy (notice that this is /not/ a tax; taxes go to the government). So far Germany has chosen to keep theirs very low, so that is where I get my CD-R's. It is legal to import CD-R's for personal use to other member countries without paying any extra tax; EU guarantees the free movement of goods within Fortress Europa. There are many webbased shops in Germany that will gladly send all over the EU.

      As long as just one member country ma

    • "Buy before May 1st (law is know since Jan 1st) : Who doesn't have a few hundred CD-R's at home?"

      In theory this works. But just before the same thing was implemented in Canada, all the stores went and put away all their non-levy CD-Rs, lied to their customers saying they were sold out, and the after the date, they put all the discs back and sold them at the levied price, pocketing the extra margin.

    • 5 miles in my case (France)

      If you plan to go to France, you'll be surprised to see that this tax is already there and a lot more expensive : .50Euros per CD. So get your CDs some place else!

  • Only for cds you own (Score:2, Informative)

    by fille ( 575662 )
    The flemish article states that this extra tax is only a compensation for copying cds you own. So no, you can't copy a friends cd legally just because you paid the tax.

    Some political parties even want an extra tax to compensate the industry for losses of illegal copying! Since the elections are sheduled for may 18th, you can punish those bastards right away! *grin*
    • which parties ?

      (sorry, I'm abroad, don't have all the nice colored political leaflets)
      • It's in the article on zdnet.be:
        "In december had de partij Spirit voorgesteld om alle muziekdownloads te legaliseren en de rechthebbenden te compenseren via een forse belasting op blanco cd's en harde schijven, maar zover zijn we nog niet."

        This proposal is much more extreme: all downloads of music (!) would be legalised and a compensation for the industry would be paid by taxing cds and hard disks.
        • Wow. Umh. Let's think about this proposition.
          We (or you, in this case) already have tax on blank CD.
          They propose to legalize download in exchange of a tax. Well. (too small issue alone to cast my vote anyway)

          Now, back to flemish (the few I knew is now mixed with german, shit) ... ... cool article, but, as you seem well informed, maybe you can answer this question that stay unanswered for me :

          "Een kopie maken van een cd die u niet gekocht hebt of gedownloade muziek op cd branden blijft illegaal."

          -> By
          • I don't really understand your question, I think. Do you ask which law prohibits copying a cd or burning mp3 from the net? I suppose it's just copyright law that specifies this. It's also illegal to copy a book so it's the same thing basically. I'm not a lawyer so I can't give you the correct number or references though..

            I really don't have a problem with it either. Copying cds shouldn't be legal, I think. It's not public domain and people invest a lot of money in recording albums so consumers should pay.

            • Re:Only for cds you own (Score:3, Informative)

              by dago ( 25724 )
              Well, the point is that the copyright law I (was suppose to) studied at school stated that 'copies made for private use' are allowed.

              And the problem is what is private use. And I can't find anything which state that copying something from kazaa is illegal. When napster was hot, IFPI menaced (email, letters) against people sharing stuff, not downloading it ... so ...

              Now, for 'ethical' things, artists should be retributed for their work, of course. But as you stated, ther are a lot of problem with existing
              • Now, for 'ethical' things, artists should be retributed for their work

                Oh absolutely. I can think of loads and loads of artists who should be 'retributed' for their work. The late, great, Bill Hicks had the right idea.

                "M.C. Hammer? Come over here. Now suck Satan's cock... Vanilla Ice? Come over here..."

                I think you meant to say they should have restitution, but the idea of retribution for the suffering they've imposed is just so much more appealing...
                • *ç%*&$ english words which looks like french ones and don't have the same meaning

                  retribution in french means money you get for a work you did.

                  learned something today ... cool...
    • How does this work with fair use where you are allowed to legally make backup copies of media you have bought? You cannot be allowed to taxate fair use in the copyright low can you?
    • well, next to the fact that a lot of ppl will go to France, Holland or Germany and the ever interesting Luxembourg for CDRs, a lot of ppl (including myself) will have no moral objections agains copying anymore. I guess I have bought my last CD spindle in Belgium (good move again from the government).

      Heck, I hardly burn _any_ music CD (I'm not a music fan), and as a result I will have paid any music CD I would ever copy several times on taxes.

      If they tax it, they should compensate, in this case, it's just
      • next to the fact that a lot of ppl will go to France,

        iirc, CD-R have taxed for some time in France now

        • iirc, CD-R have been taxed for some time in France now
        • Heck, no wonder the CDs are expensive in Auchan!

          A bit out of date but:
          http://www.vnunet.fr/actu/article.htm?numero =6697

          Heck, it'll be Luxembourg then.

          8,5 per 50 CDr or 85 Euro for 500, I mean, for a number of ppl it gets pretty interesting to drive 160 km if you're around Brussels.

          One of the advantages of combining the power of the internet and living in a small country.

          Long Live Luxembourg!
  • I don't use them, I use standard CD-R non-rewritables. They are cheaper and they don't require a erase action first. If I don't like the burn or I don't need it any more fine, I toss it. I'm out what $0.08 US? Even if they tax it it's not an issue, you got to pay maybe a couple of cents more.

    Ok I am taking about the US but the logic will apply anywhere. I don't like it if the money is going to RIAA but are we just talking about attacking the funding sources of the RIAA and it's EU counterpart. Or are we ju

  • Legal to copy then (Score:1, Troll)

    by henrik ( 98 )
    Well, this should make it legal to borrow a CD from the local library and copy it onto a CDR that still is cheaper than the original CD. And I you are paying the tax for it, it should be perfectly legalm because why would you otherwise we paying a fee (tax) for it?

  • H'mm... (Score:3, Funny)

    by codeButcher ( 223668 ) on Tuesday April 29, 2003 @04:17AM (#5832464)
    Time to make that career move to musician that I've always dreamt of... Seems that there's money to be made.
  • But it dopes mean that the record industry has less right to complain about us evil pirates.

  • Pretty steep (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Let's see

    80 minute CDs.
    50 CDs to a spindle.
    4,000 minutes per spindle
    at 0.12/recordable hour

    8/spindle

    That's too much in my books.

  • Not CDRW (Score:3, Informative)

    by sconest ( 188729 ) on Tuesday April 29, 2003 @04:58AM (#5832538) Homepage
    The flemish article talks about CD-R not CD-RW.
    It also says there was already a tax for audio CD-R that'll be increased from 12 eurocents to 23 eurocents.
  • If you have paid tax on cd-r's for compensation to the artists, are you then allowed to copy the works? What is the legal standpoint here?

    Are there any other industries where the government makes you pay for the crimes of others?
  • We have been paying tax on CD-R and CD-RW for a couple of years now. The amount is 0,0533kr/minute, so the price af an 800MB CD went up with about 5kr ~ 0.66 this effectively doubled the price on CD's overnight!

    Nowadays most of the CD's i buy comes from Germany! But even the Belgian tax is way less than ours!

  • Let's see here... a tax on something that I could already do legally in my own home to subsidize a troubled industry.

    Belgium, I salute you!

    • Re:Catching up to America... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Basje ( 26968 ) <bas@bloemsaat.org> on Tuesday April 29, 2003 @06:46AM (#5832741) Homepage
      Maybe someone from Belgium could write a letter to the European Commission. Supporting commercial entities with tax money is illegal in the EU, and will lead to harsh penalties (Sabena anyone?).

      Then make it public the government's illegal support of the recording industry is costing the community a lot of money.

      There are elections in Belgium in 2 months. Make an issue of it.
    • America? More like catching up to Canada... I've never figured out quite how our government ended up taxing us on behalf of an American recording agency... but your didn't. Hopefully this disease won't spread to any more countries.
  • So composers, copyright holders and performers get to cash in on people buying CD-Rs to back up their personal and work files. Someone should tell these guys that not all CD-Rs are used to make "Barthalamu's Super Terrific Dance Dance Dance Mix".
    • speaking of which - can I get another copy of that "Barthalamu's Super Terrific Dance Dance Dance Mix" that you made for me?

      thanks.

  • That's some kinda tax! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Muad'Dave ( 255648 ) on Tuesday April 29, 2003 @08:06AM (#5833099) Homepage

    ...the tax will add 12 euro cents (13 cents) per hour...

    Good Lord!! 12 cents/hour adds up to 20.16/week! That's 150.27/month!

    What's that? Oh, they mean 12 cents/hour of recordable time on the disk...nevermind.

  • Taxing HDD is next.. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Since portable Hard Drives are cheaper, and hold more, how much longer before they levy the RIAA tax on ALL recordable media ESPECIALLY hard disks?

  • Freedom Waffles (Score:5, Funny)

    by n1ywb ( 555767 ) on Tuesday April 29, 2003 @09:30AM (#5833778) Homepage Journal
    In other news, Americans are now referring to "Belgian waffles" as "freedom waffles".

  • Personally (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Snowspinner ( 627098 )
    I think that taxing media is a perfectly reasonable way of handling things. I'd be perfectly happy to pay a CD, DVD, or even HD tax per gig in exchange for the right to use P2P networks, burn, swap, and pirate at will.

    The problem is that this law doesn't actually do that. It just adds another penalty, rather than switching penalties from prosecution to a small tax.

    But I still think this is probably the best way for the music industry to make up its lost profit.
  • ... that if you use the CD-R to back up your own personal data that you are allowed a 12 cents refund for each backup of you own data? I use my CD-R to back up my digialy camera pictures, documents and programs I write. .. I guess its good I don't live there otherwise I'd have to pay the record companies money to back up my own data.... in the US I'd want to sue...

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