Amazon Calls Children's Privacy Complaint Groundless 206
theodp writes "Eleven groups, including the Electronic Privacy Information Center and Junkbusters, filed a complaint with the FTC, asking that it investigate Amazon for violations of the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act. An Amazon spokesman called the complaint groundless because "Amazon.com is not a site directed at children." So what was the deal with those Amazon Press Releases for the Harry Potter Magical Candy Contest For Children Ages 6 to 13, Toy Quest Toy Design Contest For Kids 12 And Under, and the Be a Poet Contest For All Kids 12 and Under?"
Update: 04/23 23:54 GMT by T :theodp writes with an update from Ad Age which says that Amazon has "announced it has removed children's identifying information from its Web sites."
I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog... (Score:5, Insightful)
A system that might be helpful (though it would detract from the number of participants) would be to require that kids typing on forms be sponsored by an adult (proven with at least a non-charged credit card number) and that adult would then receive copies of all the text the child typed at an e-mail address of choice. This would give parents the opportunity to monitor what data had got out, and shift the responsibility for properly screening it onto their shoulders, without requiring them to regularly comb through Amazon to see what had been posted.
Of course the deeper social issue of using the Internet as a babysitter and requiring that the rest of the world baby-proof the information universe is certainly worth addressing.
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:5, Insightful)
Not a lot of sense closing the barn door, after the horse is gone...
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2, Insightful)
No, it is the parents job to protect their children, not the rest of the world's. If a parent is going to sit a child in front of a computer and give them internet access that they can't trust to use responcibly, than anything that happens is the parents own fault and only the parents fault, not the website that the kid wondered onto that doesn't even have a solid way of knowing the age of the user.
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2, Insightful)
Seriously, I've thought this ever since people were upset kids were watching too much violence on TV or in computer games or seeing porn on the Internet. It's not technology's job to keep children safe (I guess when there are cyborgs having children it might be a different story...)
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:3, Insightful)
Speaking as a parent, I agree with you, but there's something you need to consider. A parent cannot look over their child's shoulder during every waking hour. That's why parents want technology to help them. For instance, the ability to block certain channels or certain content (by rating) on TV. This
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:3, Insightful)
A parent can work to instill their values in the child to the point where they do not NEED to look over their child's shoulder every waking hour. My parents managed quite well, and I didn't stray very far from what they taught me until I was in college and adult enough to make my own choices. I hope that I can do as well with my son.
I have little sympathy for the point of view that as a parent you don't want to spend your time watc
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2)
You are right of course but you are also letting your ideology get ahead of your common sense. There is no reason why parents should be forbidden aids that help them manage the technologies they and their children use. I may leave my 7 year old watching "Liberty Kids" on PBS while making diner - but he also knows how to change the channel and likes to think of hi
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2)
Perhaps you need to review what I've said and point out where I said that parents should be forbidden such aids, instead of assuming that you can infer my "ideology" through one or two short posts to slashdot.
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2)
Then what was the point of your post? The original poster was essentially agreeing that the parents not technologies job to protect their children but also thought it would be nice if tools were available that helped the parent out. Your response was that you had "no sympathy" with a parent who doesn't "want to spend your time watching TV with your children" a fine sentiment but one already ad
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2)
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2)
That's why parents want technology to help them. For instance, the ability to block certain channels or certain content (by rating) on TV. This prevents parents from having to sit in the room while their child is watching TV to make sure they don't change the channel to something inappropriate.
Speaking as a non-parent, I'll wager that your channel lockout feature does little to protect your kids against violent imagery. The reason is that violence in video games is fairly harmless, because kids are fair
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:3, Insightful)
Likewise as much as parents want to protect and benefit their
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe I'm naive, but I have to ask, "How do you enforce this?"
The poster above suggests using a credit card as proof of age, but still,
1) if the cc is not being charged, how is the parent to know that it is being used for ID?
2) How is Amazon to know that the cc is or isn't being used with parent's consent?
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2, Funny)
Easy. You ask users for their date of birth, and then restrict features appropriately.
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2)
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:5, Funny)
You can ask three questions (that adults can answer), just like at the beginning of Leisure Suite Larry
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2)
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:1)
I was gonna mention that... it was a very cool feature fairly well implemented. (Probably tongue-in-cheek, but still effective.)
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2)
"I was gonna mention that... it was a very cool feature fairly well implemented. (Probably tongue-in-cheek, but still effective.)"
Not really... Whenever I wanted to play it, I'd just get my dad to answer the questions for me :-)
My dad never told me the objective, though. I realized it at about the same time as I started understanding what's so funny about finding virgins in St. Mary's girl school...
I also used to get my dad to type "Press don't push button" in SQ1, because I couldn't type fast enough
Hey mom, dad! (Score:2)
What year did richard Nixon become president?
Cool, thanks.. Hey, what was his dog's name?
Great, thanks ma!
:-)
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2)
Easy. Do what porn sites do: ask for a credit card info. If it's valid, then you are of appropiate age. Rest assured, the information will only be used for verification purposes and no charges will be made. (* insert pop-up ad to totally unrelated site here *)
This post is listed in Top 100 Adult Sites. Click here [top100.com] to vote for this post.
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2)
Assuming you're not joking, I see three problems with this:
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2)
...there go my aspirations as a stand up comedian...
Kids will just "borrow" their parent's CC, and it won't do much to stop them
Yup, and those parents will have bigger problems that privacy concerns.
If the person/company operating the site is "unsavory", they will find a way to charge you money. Often without your knowledge
Just like them Nigerian scam emails. Always distrust by default. There are several age verification systems in the Internet. A site that claims
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2)
Hahahahahahaa.....
My god, man, are you trying to kill me, I laughed so hard at that I nearly had a heart attack.
They tried this back in the day of the BBS, if you wanted to access an adult area, it asked you for your birthday. Guess how many tries it took me to figure that out and get around it. A 13 year old kid may be a bag of raging hormones, but he isn't stupid. As far as most BBS's were concerned I was born in
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:1)
In the perfect sense of enforcement you can't (Score:1, Insightful)
I'd also include (as suggested above) the option of letting the parent pre-s
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:3, Insightful)
More importantly - why should I care?
If Amazon had a "pedophile" section - that might bother me. Or if there were a chat room on Amazon where people might actually be able to interact with an unsupervised 12 year old... then I might see how that is bad.
But if a kid is allowed to post up a review... I'm not seeing why the hell that matters - other than the review might suck. Even then, 12 is still pretty mature - 5 year olds... maybe even 7 y
Where am I going with this? (Score:2)
A system that works. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I hate it when I'm not rooting for the underdog (Score:2)
An option could be to require sites that allow children to submit information to have that information moderated by some sort of government committee approved moderator with some special license/certification.
There are no children under 13 (Score:2, Funny)
Re:There are no children under 13 (Score:2)
Re:There are no children under 13 (Score:2)
Virus (Score:4, Funny)
Amazon Tech: "We just can't get rid of this damn thing"
If you looked carefully (Score:5, Informative)
Re:If you looked carefully (Score:1)
That is because Amazon is an evil company, due to the patents they've filed and (attempted) to enforce. Thus, anything that happens to them that is bad is a good thing. Even when it is groundless and without merit. If Amazon does something good, it will be met with even more scrutiny and cynicism. Just the c
Re:If you looked carefully (Score:2)
Yay objectiveness!
Mod parent up (Score:1)
Re:If you looked carefully - 2001 or 1998? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:If you looked carefully (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:If you looked carefully (Score:2)
They didn't say they never were a kid-oriented site, they said they aren't now. I would tend to agree with that.
And what about (Score:5, Funny)
Ages 4-8.
Re:And what about (Score:3, Funny)
Re:And what about (Score:2)
Re:And what about (Score:2)
"Using deft allegory, the authors have provided an insightful and intuitive explanation of one of Unix's most venerable networking utilities. Even more stunning is that they were clearly working with a very early beta of the program, as their book first appeared in 1933, years (decades!) before the operating system and network infrastructure were finalized."..... click on link for more
The "alternative" history of ping. [arl.mil]
Re:Moron (Score:2)
Parents (Score:2)
Presumably the company would require parental consent of some sort for underaged kids, right?
This smells like a dirty run on Amazon, FWIW.
Patents (Score:5, Funny)
I hope Bezos doesn't read slashdot, I don't want to give him any ideas.
Jason
ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
eBay (Score:4, Informative)
Re:eBay (Score:2)
eBay is not targeting young kids - hell I can't buy anything for another 2 years, and I've been buying online from most places for ages!
Odd...
Toys R Us affiliation (Score:5, Informative)
"Toysrus.com
Founded in 1998, Toysrus.com really gained momentum when it formed an alliance with Amazon.com in 2000. The site became an online retailing success story by more than tripling its sales and number of orders from the prior year and by giving guests a terrific online toy-buying experience. Since that time, Toysrus.com and Amazon.com have introduced two additional online shopping experiences with the launch of Babiesrus.com and Imaginarium.com."
Re:Toys R Us affiliation (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Toys R Us affiliation (Score:2)
If I wanted to get anal, I could list allowances/gifts/etc, that goes back to at least first grade
Re:Toys R Us affiliation (Score:1)
Nothing in that quote suggests that they're not aiming at adults buying toys for kids. Considering that all purchases at Amazon and Toys R Us require a credit card, I'd be inclined to say that they really aren't aiming at kids, except in the sense of getting children to desire a product, and then to go to their parents saying "Buy me that, buy me that".
Which seems substantively different from targetting one's site to children. The product is targetted to children. The mechanism for purchase (Which
Re:Toys R Us affiliation (Score:2)
What other way can a website advertise the product -even if they are targetting only adults ? More importantly, who gets to decide where the line is to be drawn ?
Amazon: worse then Hitler? (Score:3, Funny)
Amazon is letting children 12 years old and younger post reviews of toy products without their parents' consent.
How dare they allow my little angels to post a toy review without my express consent! I shudder to think of how many children will have their innocence corrupted because they are exposed to speech that has not been censored by a vigilant adult.
Even worse, they may expose themselves to predators online if they are allowed to post without parental approval. You know: "My name is Jimmy and I think this toy is real neat and I live with my parents in the big red house on the corner of Mulberry Street and the back door is unlocked." That kind of thing. Perhaps we should block our children from accessing websites altogether: it's a dangerous world out there.
Re:Amazon: worse then Hitler? (Score:1)
Hot damn.
What about people posing as kids? Say I get on there and post a review that says I'm a 12 year old girl. Does it matter what my review says then? Do I have to ask my parents?
Out of all of the injustices in the world right now - children posting on Amazon without the parents knowing is pretty much at the top of the list if you ask me.
Re:Amazon: worse then Hitler? (Score:2)
Godwin! Godwin! (Score:2)
Wouldn't answering the slashdot poll violate CIPA? (Score:1)
Re:Wouldn't answering the slashdot poll violate CI (Score:1)
Re:Wouldn't answering the slashdot poll violate CI (Score:2)
Asking for ages (Score:4, Insightful)
What I'm basically trying to say that the parents should be monitoring what their kids are doing. Treat the internet as the same the street. Don't talk to strangers or give out personal information
Rus
Re:Asking for ages (Score:2)
Cookies, apparently. MP3.com tries it, and it's damned annoying. Go to site, download music, oops you need to provide personal information. Fill in random crap, click okay, the site tells you "due to the CRAPPA act, you can't listen to music"
Go back later, and it's placed a cookie identifying you as under-age, so you can't sign-up without first deleting (or blocking
Where are the parents? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm just sick of people blaming their failure as a parent on someone else.
Re:Where are the parents? (Score:2)
For one thing, they're smarter than you when it comes to technology. Always have been, always will be. They can bypass damn near any spying method you can come up with, short of 24-7 watching over their shoulders. Even if they can't, they'll clue in pretty quick that they're being watched, and as much as you may thi
Toy Design Contest (Score:1)
Sounds like the Simpsons episode where the children unknowningly design Funzo
impossible burden on Amazon (Score:2)
It is not Amazon.com's job -- or anyone else's job -- to babysit your kids while you're away. Every parent knows damn well that there is the full spectrum of stuff on the internet, and leaving one's child alone poses that risk.
The right to privacy doesn't mean other people should have to spend their money and their time making sure you
Re:impossible burden on Amazon (Score:2)
Don't force your antiquated views on me. I'm not responsible for my actions. It's always someonelses fault!
end sarcasum
Amazon is for everyone (Score:2)
See? Amazon stuff is for everyone, so can blame them for selling to kids too?
It's a good thing... (Score:3, Insightful)
Why is this law bad? Because lawmakers can't seem to understand what can and can't be legislated. This is another law that makes about as much sense as the "evil bit" joke RFC. Just because it's a good idea to prevent something doesn't mean you can. It would be good to keep childern from playing in the streets as well, but you won't see millions spent on "you must be this tall to enter" signs.
-Ryan C.
Re:It's a good thing... (Score:2)
Just had this vision of usb wired height meters attached to pc's around the world. Before a site lets you access it, you have to measure how tall you are
on any street in america... (Score:4, Insightful)
Come on...drive down a street, any street, and open a mailbox. You'll get the last name. Watch the house. You'll see if there are kids. If you listen, you'll hear the parents call out their kid's names.
If someone is a pervert, being armed with a name and a city/state isn't going to make them do something. They're going to do something because they're a pervert, and they'll be able to get a name with no problem regardless. Come on.
The difference is... (Score:3, Insightful)
People who will see you opening the mailbox that isn't yours, people who will see you "watching the house". These aren't foolproof, but they're at least possible.
Conversely, there isn't anyone watching you troll the Amazon boards looking for kids giving away information.
To clarify: were you saying COPPA is a bad thing?
-Zipwow
Re:on any street in america... (Score:3, Insightful)
Not coincidentally, this kind of surveillance (let's call it what it really is, "stalking") can get you arrested in the real world. Why should the bar be set any lower online?
Re:on any street in america... (Score:2, Insightful)
It's not a crime for me to open your mailbox (or is it, what if I want to leave you a letter?)... It absolutely is a crime to remove contents of said mailbox without your permission. Last I knew parking on the side of th
Being 13 Years Old.... (Score:3, Funny)
It is much more effective than disobeying, and the odds of them finding out about my disruptive behavior are next-to-none... plus I get a major website in trouble!
Sincerely,
Johnson Doe (555-55-5555)
P.S. - Is 555-55-5555 a valid SSN? I hope not. I disavow all knowledge if there is a Johnson Doe with that SSN. You're on
Re:Being 13 Years Old.... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Being 13 Years Old.... (Score:2)
Thanks!
Children Shouldn't Be on the Internet Period (Score:1, Insightful)
Between the non-stop porn, the no
Children need the internet (Score:2)
Re:Children need the internet (Score:2)
What? I take it you've never done much research with a search engine, then. There are plenty of sites that make a living by fooling google and the other search engines into ranking them high in the search results, and giving you a page full of pornographic pop-ups and banner ads. (I was trying to find something just a couple days ago, and a good 50% of the google search results were gibberish of that nature.)
The other thing which you mentioned
Re:Children Shouldn't Be on the Internet Period (Score:2)
"Amazon.com is not a site directed at children." (Score:1)
The deal is... (Score:3, Insightful)
But surely the submitter will go to heaven, for not only has he submitted a story about the abuses perpetuated on the common man by a large entity (Microsoft, Amazon, US government), he added his own attack to the submission. Well done, faithful servant. Perhaps you can also dig up some incriminating press releases at Microsoft. Better yet, attack the evil entities where it hurts...the wallet! Did you know that OSDN is "the No. 1 network for delivering visitors who have shopped for or purchased software online in the past 6 months"? Go get 'em tiger! Take down OSDN and then post your deeds here...errr...well...I'm sure we'll hear about them.
Power to the people!
Um....amazon.com does not target children... (Score:2, Insightful)
1)The business is expecting children to go to the location of that business,
or
2)Go where that business's product is located,
and
3)Purchase that product or service in response to their advertising campaign.
Now tell me: How many 10 year olds have credit cards? Amazon targets the people who are legally able to have their own credit card - ADULTS! Ok maybe 15-17 year olds get copies in their parents' names, but still...
Kids don't have Credit Cards!! (Score:2, Insightful)
So what was the deal with those Amazon Press Releases for the Harry Potter Magical Candy Contest For Children Ages 6 to 13...
The site is not targeted at children, simply because children do not have credit cards!! These press releases are targeted at the adults to purchase these neat toys for their kids. Duh!
What is it with /.ers hating Amazon? I shop Amazon on a daily basis, and think of them as the greatest web page ever created. Whatever you've got against them, get over it. It's getting kind of old
Re:Kids don't have Credit Cards!! (Score:2)
So Bezos could be a demon lord trying to open a gate to hell, but you shop there and like it, so it's all good? One of the big problems with capitalism, right there; people don't really give a damn, as long as they can get cheap product.
site for parents, not kids- credit card required (Score:2)
They're for PARENTS. The only people who can use Amazon are people with CREDIT CARDS, and that rules out most anybody even close to being protected by COPPA.
UPDATE: AMAZON.COM PULLS CHILDREN'S ID FEATURES (Score:2)
Re:Like with television and movies... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:wtf (Score:2)
I am not talking about ruling with an iron fist. I am talking about being INVOLVED. If you are truly involved, and share your life with your kids and let THEM blossom WITH you (I learn more from my kids than th
Re:Tough (Score:2)
Right. They bury the information on their legalese page. Now what kid is going to look there? What adult is going to look there?
The thing they are not doing is putting a big sign on the front page like the porn sites do that says "By clicking here I assert that I am 18 years of
Re:Tough (Score:2)
Re:Tough (Score:2)
Re:Tough (Score:2)
Write Your Own Review
Under 13? Use our Kid's Review Form. [amazon.com]
I think that EPIC's claims go too far.
Re:Tough (Score:2)
Certainly. But their "defense" is that they are an adult site. This is simply not so. If they are an adult site, let them mention it in other than the legalese. If they are not, let them not defend their actions by saying they only expect adults there.
If they want to filter registration only, or posting only, they can do so. And then they wo
Re:not even worth discussion (Score:2, Funny)
No shit?! Christ, you need a license just to fix a damn clogged toilet here in Massachusetts and a permit to build a fucking birdhouse, yet the 15 yo teeny bopper down the street can get knocked up by the entire football team and be a Parent-In-