U.S. National Do-Not-Call Registry is Law 540
extra88 writes "Bush has signed the
Do-Not-Call Registry into law. The registry will be run by the FTC and funded by fees collected from telemarketers. Telemarketers can be fined up to $11K for calling someone on the list. Politicians, surveys (loophole?) and charities are exempt from using the list. The FCC oversees certain industries (airlines, banks and phone companies) and will have to "buy in" to the registry for it to affect those industries. Slashdot covered this story when the bill went through House of Representatives."
sign up (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:sign up (Score:5, Funny)
Re:sign up (Score:5, Informative)
It'll be phased in over 8 weeks region by region starting in July. You can register either by a toll-free call, or online (Yea!).
Not so fast (Score:3, Interesting)
Likewise, I get 2-5 calls a day from charity groups saying that we will be in your area looking for used articles. If I do not answer within 3 rings, they will hang up and try again in about 15 minutes.
Take your pick of which set of spam you want; businesses or charity/government.
Re:Not so fast (Score:3, Interesting)
Otherwise, let's start giving them our cell phone numbers, and then sue them into submission. C'mon it'll be fun, and our lawyers will love us for it.
Re:sign up (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, I know that the above can be pared down considerably by removing invalid area codes and prefixes.
We could set this up as a distributed effort, with each
automated sign up? no thanks (Score:5, Insightful)
And just so you know, some people LIKE to receive telemarketing calls, credit card offers, etc. Maybe they're lonely. Maybe they need toilet paper. It doesn't matter. If you sign me up for something that I didn't ask for, you are violating my privacy just as much as the guy who calls me in the middle of dinner.
Re:sign up (Score:3, Interesting)
That sounds like a one-liner competition! I submit:
Giggle.
any chance (Score:4, Funny)
Hello Mr Jones (Score:3, Funny)
1) What do you think about our new offer we're sending to people?
2) Would our recent pricing changes convince you to switch to our company?
3) PROFIT!
Re:Hello Mr Jones (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Hello Mr Jones (Score:2)
ALL Telemarketing will be surveys in 40 minutes
Good work Yankee Plutocrats, youve managed to munge everything yet again.
Surveys... (Score:5, Interesting)
I still can't believe that a legislature actually passed a reasonably effective and useful law, despite the opposition of lobbying groups!
Re:Surveys... (Score:5, Funny)
Politicians don't watch porn... (Score:3, Funny)
They are men of power. They hump their beautiful but otherwise useless secretaries.
If you and I ever got that powerful, we would have no need for watching sexual variety.
Re:Surveys... (Score:2)
Re:Surveys... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm worried more companies will find a way to try and look like a charitable organization. Or worse yet, pay a charity to do their solicitations for them as a middle-man.
Re:Surveys... (Score:2)
Re:Surveys... (Score:4, Interesting)
House Roll Call Vote on HR 395 [house.gov]: 418 Yea, 7 Nay (5 Republican, 2 Democrat), 9 Not Voting
Re:Surveys... (Score:4, Informative)
5 Republicans voted against, and 2 Democrats did.Look for youself. [house.gov]
Re:Surveys... (Score:2)
Nobody is saying the telemarkers are not legitimate. But if the call is an intrusion, it is a problem for the person being called. It does not matter whether the caller represents a "legitimate" enterprise.
I just hung up on a caller who identified himself as calling from "Virginia Beach" with a sweepstakes that I've been entered into as a result of using one of my credit cards.
The caller made two mistakes: 1. He called me on my cell phone, which costs me airtime after the first minute. 2. He did not take the hint from my first words "I am not interested in your product in any way, shape, or form, and I consider your call to be an unwelcome intrusion. Please take me off your list, and do not ever call this number again."
The caller went on to explain that he wanted me to enter into a sweepstakes for $75000. I had to interrupt to say "I am not interested in your sweepstakes, and I do not care to hear about it."
"I have asked you to terminate this discussion and place me on your do not call list. Please do so now, before I become hostile."
The caller should not have said another word, but he went on with something I took no mind of.
There was nothing legitimate about that call. I don't care who the caller represented.
What impact will it have? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What impact will it have? (Score:5, Interesting)
Thank goodness.. (Score:5, Interesting)
First Post?
Interesting idea! (Score:2)
Woo (Score:5, Funny)
* ring ring *
Hello?
Hallo, dees iz Al Quaeda fund raising group, please geef uz moe-nee.
I'm on the National Do Not Call list!
Ah.. forgiff my mistake, American Infidel. I shall call next perzon on list. Haff a nice day.
No problem, g'day.
Do-Not-Email Next? (Score:5, Interesting)
I would personally like such a thing considering my volume of spam, but aside from anyone who lives by spamming, does anyone find issues with the extended concept?
Re:Do-Not-Email Next? (Score:5, Insightful)
The callers could move outside the US, but the cost of making the phone calls would increase dramatically.
However, it's easy for spammers to move outside the US to avoid an unfavorable law, and doesn't really change their costs much.
Re:Do-Not-Email Next? (Score:2)
Of course this would not work for spam advertising an offshore website or service, but hey - it's a start...
Re:Do-Not-Email Next? (Score:2)
Re:Do-Not-Email Next? (Score:2)
Re:Do-Not-Email Next? (Score:2)
How to get a dialtone when a surveyor calls (Score:3, Funny)
"My answer to all your questions will be 'Go fuck yourself raw, bitch'. Still want to ask? Have at it."
The UK has one too (Score:5, Interesting)
I just signed up to the UK version, www.tpsonline.org.uk. It takes a month to work its way into the system, then I'm promised a big reduction in unsolicited phone calls, currently running at around 2-3 a day. As I have to work from home some weeks, so this will be a great relief. I'm glad you guys have it too.
Macka
Re:tpsonline.org.uk? (Score:2)
They are an organisation funded by OFTEL (Office of Telecommunications) a government body. So presumably, they have sufficient dedicated staff to deal with the complaints. More details are on their "What is TPS" page.
how to break (Score:5, Funny)
Phase 2: No fines = no funds to enforce law.
Phase 3: Resume telemarketing
Phase 4: Profit!
why is anyone exempt? (Score:5, Insightful)
bkr
Re:why is anyone exempt? (Score:2)
Re:why is anyone exempt? (Score:2)
Re:why is anyone exempt? (Score:2)
Of course, the bill will not actually do anything.
Re:why is anyone exempt? (Score:2)
Congress renames French Fries [kron4.com]
Gee, I wonder why so few Americans vote. Could it be because Congress does worthless shit like the Do-Not-Call-Unless-You're-Taking-A-"Survey" Registry and renaming french fries?
Re:why is anyone exempt? (Score:5, Informative)
They don't necessarily have the right to call you out of the blue, but if the information is to be statistically valid that's exactly what they have to do. And it is in the public's interests to have accurate statistics (not that there aren't a lot of rigged polls going on).
As for charities? I'm betting they originally wanted to exclude all "nonprofits," but realized that the ACLU and many other political groups are non-profit but not charities. Hence, gain the support of your friendly local Goodwill and keep your iron grip on politics.
Re:why is anyone exempt? (Score:4, Insightful)
Sorry, but if you want truly random data, you'll have to work a lot harder than picking up the nearest phone book to get it.
As for whether the public needs more statistics, I don't think so. According to my calculations, I have actually listened to and understood 0.7% of statistics that are spewed at me daily from the television. Of those 0.01% have proven useful to me in my life.
Hope it works (Score:2, Informative)
So... (Score:4, Funny)
Overseas calls? (Score:5, Insightful)
I get the feeling that, in order to survive, junk phone callers will resort to some dirty tricks.
Re:Overseas calls? (Score:2, Informative)
If some company is stupid enough to make an international telemarketing call, have at it. That business model will soon drive them bankrupt.
One of the reasons that we currently get telemarketing calls is the pricing structure of local and toll calls is low enough to support that model. This crap didn't happen back when a phone call actuall cost something.
Re:Overseas calls? (Score:5, Informative)
7. What about telemarketers calling from overseas? Are they covered? Won't you have difficulty enforcing your national "do not call" registry outside the U.S?
Telemarketers calling U.S. consumers are covered, regardless of where they are calling from. Enforcement outside the U.S. is not as easy as it is at home, but it is not unusual for the FTC to take law enforcement action - and to prevail - against telemarketers calling from outside the U.S. Moreover, if a company within the U.S. solicits sales through an overseas professional telemarketer, that U.S. company is liable for any TSR violations of the telemarketer. Initiating enforcement action against such companies is not a problem for the FTC.
but... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:but... (Score:2)
Buy Herbal Viagra, Vote Quimby (Score:5, Funny)
It's all your fault (Score:5, Insightful)
You know what? It's all their faults anyway. If they hadn't been so aggresive and so intrusive (I used to get around 15 calls from 6pm to 9pm ... right smack dab in the middle of dinner), they wouldn't have pissed off an entire nation of people and legislation like this wouldn't be required.
But they were, so it is needed.
Hm. I guess that thought applies to SPAM as well.
My comment to telemarketers: Here's a dime, go call someone who gives a damn (but make sure you check The Registry first!). As my mother used to say: you made the bed, now f**king sleep in it.
Re:It's all your fault (Score:2)
This would infer that you "know" people in the telemarketing industry. Which would infer that you also might know some "higer-ups" in the telemarketing industry.
I understand their pain, how about we call a secret meeting to have this act overturned.Tell all the telemarketers ... Tonight, midnight, behind the quickie mart, come unarmed with a whole lot of cash. They'll be a guy there named Bruiser, he really is going to miss all those calls at 8:00 AM and 7:00 PM, and he really knows about the pain and anguish that these things can cause and Bruiser will not stand for people to laugh during the process.
I'm totally against the old Eye for an Eye law, time to implement new laws, Two Eyes for an Eye, bend over and take it.
From my favorite movie Boilerroom -- "now I've got to actually get a job"
Re:It's all your fault (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm glad the telemarketing industry is angry. Hopefully that means we will be rid of those leeches upon society.
Do something positive, and get back to us.
Let me help them build the list (Score:5, Funny)
int main()
{
int i, j, k;
for (i = 100; i <= 999; i++)
for (j = 100; i <= 999; j++)
for (k = 0; k <= 9999; k++)
printf("(%03d) %03d-%04d\n", i, j, k);
}
Re:Let me help them build the list (Score:2)
Re:Let me help them build the list (Score:2)
Re:Let me help them build the list (Score:5, Funny)
for (j = 100; i = 999; j++)--
for (k = 0; k = 9999; k++)
printf("(%03d) %03d-%04d\n", i, j, k);
You've got yourself an endless loop. The second for statement will execute indefinitely, as i will always be 100 throughout the iteration.
Ahh, the beauty of open source
Re:Let me help them build the list (Score:5, Funny)
1) Have a Premilinary Design Review
2) Have a Critical Design Review
3) Submit your code package to CVS
4) Call for a review meeting at least 5 business days in advance
5) Submit a package for review at the time of the meeting notice complete with Engineering Notes, Class Diagrams, Structure Diagrams, and Sequence Diagrams.
Thank you.
Re:Let me help them build the list (Score:3, Interesting)
(100) 999-9999 the next number generated is
(100) 1000-0000
if you look at the second for loop in his code, you'll see that it checks the area code instead of the prefix
This will get you the desired results
#include <stdio.h>
int main()
{
int i, j, k;
for (i = 200; i <= 999; i++)
for (j = 200; j <= 999; j++)
for (k = 0; k <= 9999; k++)
printf("(%03d) %03d-%04d\n", i, j, k);
}
Re:Let me help them build the list (Score:3, Funny)
one million dollars!
How are *they* going to do this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Re:How are *they* going to do this? (Score:4, Informative)
First, your testimony is evidence, and that is probably sufficient for most cases. It is ancient technology, examining people as they tell their stories, but it works in most cases.
Second, you can take a photograph of your calling-line display.
Third, if they leave a message on your answering machine, you can take a recording to court.
Fourth, you can keep a log of unwanted calls you receive. This is better than your testimony alone, because it shows you are being careful and are making accurate records.
Fifth, many telemarketing suits involve multiple calls. You can give the judge a list of people you spoke to, on what dates, what you told them, and so on. The combined facts make it very unlikely that the defendant did not call you as you claim, and you only need a preponderance of the evidence to prevail.
Sixth, you can ask your friends and neighbors if they received similar calls. Any telemarketer violating the do-not-call list is calling everyone, so you will find other witnesses to verify your report.
Seventh, if it gets to that point is important enough, you can subpoena their records and so on. But then you are into real discovery and may not be able to use small claims court.
Re:How are *they* going to do this? (Score:2)
The Colorado version of this law has been VERY effective. I've gone from receiving several calls per day, to one or two per month.
I've never tried to actually prosecute one of the few remaining telemarketers, though. I just tell them never to call again, and I hang up.
Re:How are *they* going to do this? (Score:3, Interesting)
What I think should happen is that the phone company has a database that contains the do-not-call list. They also have a database that has known call centers (should be simple... any place that has a crap load of outgoing phone calls everyday would be on this list). Then every call that is made from any of these places checks the list. If the number being called is on the list, the call is not put through and the call is logged. At the end of the month, a report is generated and sent to whoever collects the penalty fees. This saves us from getting calls even though we are on the list, and keeps the enforcement simple and cheap.
Re:How are *they* going to do this? (Score:3, Interesting)
My name is Jim... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:My name is Jim... (Score:2)
How and When? (Score:2)
only phone? how about email? (Score:2)
What about autodialers? (Score:5, Interesting)
My current solution is to use an auto-attendant wherein a caller needs to press my extension number to ring me. Now, their machine talks to my machine, and I never even hear a phone ring.
But I'd still like to cause them some pain.
Re:What about autodialers? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What about autodialers? (Score:3, Interesting)
I tried calling the operator to report it once, but they bounced me around three different people who didn't give a damn and hung up.
These SOBs are calling me on my cell phone now (Score:2)
Oddly enough, it was from my Linux Fund credit card.
Why politicians? (Score:2)
Official DNC (Do Not Call) website (Score:5, Informative)
[/end whore]
Something doesn't make sense (Score:5, Insightful)
This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If anything, a do not call list would help them reduce the costs by eliminating unnecessary phone calls. The people who sign up for this list are those who are least likely to purchase anything through a telemarketer. Now that they have a list of numbers not likely to buy anything, they can skip over that and save the cost of a phone call.
Surveys "loophole" (Score:2)
I guess the red flag that should go up is, if you're on the list, and someone tries to sell you something, it's a bad thing. If the caller identifies themselves as a research company and only asks questions about your purchasing habits, experiences with a product, they're probably ok. We generally identify ourselves as a national/worldwide research firm in the first couple of sentences of the call.
More on surveys etc. (Score:5, Informative)
Now, you want to see a loophole - how about the exemption for anyone with whom you have a "business relationship". Bought a widget from me in the last 18 months - I'm exempt. I called you for product info in the last three months - you can feel free to start calling me whether I'm listed or not. Fortunately even in those cases (and I think with charities as well) you can tell that specific business/charity to stop calling and they must honor it.
Better still, they must start transmitting caller ID info - no more "ID unavailable" and must have a person on the line within 2 seconds of your answer (the telemarketers hate this since they can't cram in as many calls per person per hour with their predictive dialers).
The other giant loophole is that there are a variety of exemptions for financial institutions, airlines and telecom companies but it appears from the FTC web site that this could be just procedural in that they are already regulated by other agencies and it just needs some interagency coordination to bring those into the fold as well. Still, those exemptions bear watching. Perhaps someone more familiar than I am with the laws would care to comment.
Surveys (Score:5, Informative)
If you feel a survey is not of academic nature then the call is illegitimate (per Wisconsin law) and the caller can still be punished. Since Wisconsin's do-not-call list went into effect at the beginning of this year we have recieved phone calls from various areas of the government ensuring our credibility.
Congress' Next Job (Score:5, Funny)
Wish it would stop charities, too. (Score:3, Interesting)
It's sad that charities have been reduced to this.
When and were to sign up. (Score:3, Funny)
So that means in July go to either firstgov.gov or ftc.gov and search for "do not call". Simple huh? Well stop whining... "when, where, oh boo hoo".
Info bonanza for telemarketers (Score:3, Insightful)
And I'm sure there are other ways such an enormous compendium of phone numbers could be abused.
Not that I'm saying this law is a bad thing. I'm thrilled about it. But I'm just listening for the other shoe to fall.
I think the real solution is... (Score:5, Funny)
Telemarketer: Would you like to learn how to save on your long distance bills?
Eliza: Oh, i like to learn what to save on my long distance bills.
Telemarketer : Well, with our super saver program you can make long distance calls for just 39 cents a minute!
Eliza: Oh, i can make long distance calls for just 39 cents a minute.
Telemarketer: Uh, yes. So can I sign you up?
Eliza: You are sure?
Telemarketer: Um, yeah. Are you interested in signing up for our long distance service?
Eliza: Would you prefer if I were not interested in signing up for our long distance service?
Re:I think the real solution is... (Score:4, Informative)
in the UK (Score:3, Informative)
UK's TPS [tpsonline.org.uk]
It actually works very well, and companies DO get into trouble if they violate the policy. It has not hindered tele-marketing at all, except that it has put an end to a lot of silly 'double glazing companies' from misusing the system by making them buy the list (which is quite expensive and must be upgraded frequently).
I am on the list, but most people do not know it exists. I have not recieved any crappy calls since signing on, but still recieve texts as they dont come under the same laws (a recent slashdot story
SMS Story [slashdot.org]
hints that texts may soon be part of this law, however, which is great!). There is also a snail-mail equivalent. Nice to see the self proclaimed 'free world' catching up with the other side of the pond!
Not to be a pessimist... (Score:3, Interesting)
According to government statistics, there is a direct correlation between gun ownership, people who believe in 'real' freedom (not the PC fakey kind), and anti-telemarking activists.
You have been warned...
[ The Management ]
My favorate quote from the article: (Score:4, Insightful)
Gee, if everyone wants to be on this do-not-call list, don't you think your business model kind of sucked in the first place? Get a real job, losers! All I have to say is good ridance.
The other bits of the legislation (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, since telemarketers currently do not transmit Caller-ID information, I get no telemarketing calls. None. Zip. Nada.
Once telemarketers start transmitting Caller-ID information, Privacy Manager will be much less useful. But, if the national do-not-call list actually works, it will make up for it. Let's hope.
Re:The other bits of the legislation (Score:3, Interesting)
I just don't answer the phone. Anybody who I actually want to hear from knows how to get ahold of me.
Death of the Predictive Dialer abuse! Yay!! (Score:5, Interesting)
I have always felt that abusing predictive dialers (by under-staffing the call center and simply hanging up on some percentage of your victims) was against the spirit of the law. Now it's against the letter of the law.
loophole? (Score:4, Interesting)
Wonder if there will be companies that do (insert random thing) business but think to get themselves excluded by paying $1000 to become a "phone company" (a reseller of long distance service). If the FCC doesn't buy into the FTC's list, then such a company might have a loop hole and be able to share the data in own "division" of the company to it's others (ie. it's actual original business).
Would you like to take a survey? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:George W. Bush! (Score:2)
This scores points with the prols. I'd have advised The Evil One to postpone signing until just before the '04 elections.
Re:George W. Bush! (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm in a state that already has a list that I'm on and my volume of "Telemarketing calls" has gone up while I've recieved no "Sales calls". esentially the companies that call me just want to inform me that if I could request information from them on a certain product or service but they weren't calling me to sell said product of service.
BIG ASS LOOPHOLE that esentially gives telemarketers a big list of valid phone numbers.
Maybe to really screw the telemarketers, people could put their cell phone numbers on the list and wait for the calls to come rolling in (an FCC violation)
Re:Trust against the loophole (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Woohoo! (Score:2)
IANAL, but does "free speech" cover calling me on a telephone service that I pay for? I would side with them if the law was talking about hawking from street corners but they are using my money to annoy me.
Re:Wow! (Score:5, Funny)
Sometimes, even a blind squirrel finds a nut.