Telemarketers Sue to Block Do-Not-Call List 410
chumpieboy writes "A story on Yahoo tells about about the DMA's attempts to stop a national DoNotCall list, essentially claiming that Opt Out is not a viable model for telemarketers. Yet they claim that Opt Out is a viable model for email marketing?"
fantasy system: (Score:5, Funny)
[SFX: ringing phone]
[SFX: an audible click, followed by a recording]
[Slow zoom, from closeup to extreme closeup, onto a telephone or computer with exaggerated blinking lights to show activity]
Recorded voice: "Hi! You're reached my telephone number. If you'd like to agree to be charged up to $10/minute at my sole discretion, please hit the "1" key now! I don't charge my friends, but if you're wasting my time with an unsolicited sales call generated by a database, please be advised that your calls are valuable to me."
[Medium closeup: telemarketer, with can of soda in one hand, hangs up, frustrated]
[Extreme closeup: hand crushing soda can]
Re:fantasy system: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:fantasy system: (Score:5, Funny)
Sir, could I speak to the owner of the household?
>That's me.
And you have no phone?
>Correct.
You are at YOUR house?
>Yep.
And you OWN the house?
>Yes.
Yet you have no phone?
>Nope. No phone.
Went on for about 15 minutes. I think he started to belive it at the end.
Re:fantasy system: (Score:5, Insightful)
Think about it, though. I talked to probably an average of 500 people a day. 400 of them were as rude as they probably ever are in their lives. 250 were pissed that I was calling them. 100 yelled at me. 50 tried to be clever and expected to trigger some sort of emotion in me, and 0 did.
By the way, if I was lucky, maybe 3 or so of those 500 would end up with a shiny new Discover Platinum card.
Re:fantasy system: (Score:5, Interesting)
The people (like myself) who are going to sign up for the list will never buy anything from a telemarketer, so if we cut down on the number of calls that they make that are guaranteed to be unproductive, it's actually better for them.
Re:fantasy system: (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:fantasy system: (Score:5, Funny)
Oh no.... new business plan:
"Hello Sir/Madam, we noticed that you are not on the Do Not Call List, this means that at any moment, perhaps even now, a telemarketer might be trying to reach you. For the low, low price of $5, you can be added to this list. It's easy, just press 1 and never be bothered again."
Damn, that's worth a patent.
Re:fantasy system: (Score:3, Interesting)
TM: "HI..."
ME: No thank you
TM: but if..
ME: what part of 'no' was difficult, bugger off.
or
TM: "HI..."
ME: If you're trying to sell something don't bother
TM: Well if you give me a moment I'm sure you'll be interested...
ME: Bugger off
However we don't get any calls now because we're on the UK TPS (telephone preference service) which is the UK telemarketing block list. Apart from the odd company which are stupid beyond the norm and get asked for their company details so I can pass them on to Oftel it works well.
Re:fantasy system: (Score:3, Funny)
My roommate and I used to keep one of those air horn noise makers next to the phone just for the wonderful opportunities offered by telemarketers to college students. As soon as we identified the caller as an unwanted call...120 dB right into the phone...too bad Ma Bell can't transmit that loud of a signal through the network. I guarantee that the same telemarketer NEVER called our number back.
I'd still be doing it now, but the wife says it sets a bad example for the kids. *shrug*
Re:fantasy system: (Score:5, Interesting)
Pray that it will back-fire (Score:5, Funny)
So, instead of a "Do Not Call" list being maintained that they have to honor, people will have to register for a "Do Call" list. This list will contain the phone numbers of people who have registered themselves as wanting telemarketing calls. This list is also the only list which telemarketers can use when calling people.
Okay, a pipe dream, but it surely would be a more manageable list, no?
Re:Pray that it will back-fire (Score:4, Funny)
I'm not so sure about that. The list could become quite large once you require that all telemarketers, their employees, and their family members must be on the "Do Call" list. Of course, all calls to them should be made between 1 and 4 AM.
I'd be very against this (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd much rather have a "Do Not Call" list. The only people motivated to be added are the people themselves. There's no benefit for anyone to sign up people they don't know.
Of course, the counter argument is that "Do Not Call" lists are a big database of phone numbers and addresses that non-profits and politicals can access but don't have to obey. "Do Not Call" lists just make those agencies' lives easier and adds to people's frustrations.
Re:Who would be on it? (Score:3, Funny)
Alan Ralsky, for starters =)
-Berj
Well, which is it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Well, which is it? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Well, which is it? (Score:2, Informative)
Unfortunately, even the federal no-call list will shortly become ineffective as DMA companies lay their US-based call-centers off and move their operations to India, where a leased T-3 link back to the states costs a whole lot less than the money they're saving by using Indian labor.
Re:Well, which is it? (Score:5, Informative)
Incorrect (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.ago.state.mo.us/nocalllaw.htm [state.mo.us]
MO AG versus Miss Cleo (Score:4, Funny)
Ahhh, Jay Nixon: the only Democrat I've ever voted for.
Re:Well, which is it? (Score:5, Informative)
According to their (BS) argument, a required list would be too much trouble to use, even though they already "recommend" the use of their optional list to member companies.
Go sign up for the optional list [dmaconsumers.org]now. And don't pay the $5 online fee . . . you can do it by mail for free.
Re:Well, which is it? (Score:5, Interesting)
BTW, great username. Brings back memories of thumping the plate glass windows at my local music store with subsonic blasts from the mm rig in the back.
Re:Well, which is it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Observe that to generate the form they want you to send by snail mail, you submit all of your personal data to their webserver, which returns to you a page for you to print and mail to them. Since you are sending the data to their webserver they are almost definitely collecting it, even though they won't act on it unless you mail it in.
Not convinced? Then take a look at the page the webserver sends back to you. Along with your name, address, etc. there is a unique tracking number. Not only that, but the same tracking number is included in the address they ask you to mail the form to. I'll bet the DMA doesn't even open the envolopes sent to them. Someone just enters in the tracking number from the address and POOF, the data they collected earlier is used to add you to the do-not-call list.
What's my point? I guess it's that these guys aren't idiots. I trust them to actually put my name on this list with little chance for error, seeing as how easy they've made it for themselves.
Re:Well, which is it? (Score:3, Informative)
An article pretty much similar to what I read the other day is here (Kennebec (ME) Journal [centralmaine.com] Some quotes:
Maine launched its do-not-call initiative in September 2001 and experienced a surge last September when the state began offering online registration on the Internet. Maine forwards its names every month to the Direct Marketing Association, which maintains the registry.
Louis Mastria, spokesman for the Direct Marketing Association, said state do-not-call laws are growing in popularity -- as evidenced by the 7 million people who have signed on in just a couple of years. Another 8 million names are on the association's "telephone preference service" list, a voluntary do-not-call list that was created in 1985.
Mastria said telemarketers like the idea of do-not-call lists because it saves them money --and earns them goodwill -- if they avoid calling people who don't want to be called at home.
"Knowing in advance to not call customers who have said 'Don't call me' is embraced by the industry," he said.
So not only do we have the DMA endorsing Do Not Call lists, but many of the states who have them subcontract to the DMA to maintain them!
The article does go on to say that the many states which have their own lists are a logistical problem. It does mention the DMA's objection to a federal registry, but I'm unclear as to why they think that's worse than 50 states each with their own registry...
Fun with telemarketers (Score:2, Funny)
My wife has been home with medical problems the past couple moths and gets tons of telemarketer calls. Last night she told me the next time one calls she is going to ask them if they want to talk to our hamster and just go off on a huge tangent about him. See how long she can keep talking about Bubba before they finally give up and hang up on her. That might be fun to listen too, I wish I could stay home for it.
Re:Fun with telemarketers (Score:2)
If it's a good recording, maybe put it up somewhere and link in slashdot.
p.s. Anyone found any archives of good prank responses pulled on annoying telemarketers.
Re:Fun with telemarketers (Score:2, Funny)
Prank Calls [emailajoke.com]
Re:Fun with telemarketers (Score:2)
Telemarketers are sneaky though... Wife answers phone, and says its for me, and I pick up, and some guy trying to sell me satelite tv. I said no, tried to be polite, he persists, finally I got the point across, and hang up.
Phone rings within 10 seconds, once again, my wife answers, and she starts talking, saying no, she wasn't interested. Turns out after the telemarketer got a no from me, he dialed back, and asked for the misses, thinking she would be an easier sell.
Fortunately for him, he didn't try anything else.
Re:Fun with telemarketers (Score:2)
I have had MCI tell me that since they were in another state, our state DCL did not apply to them.
I proceeded to explain that if I was on *ANY* DCL, I probably did not want their damn calls. Especially from a total pile of steaming excrement like MCI.
Re:Fun with telemarketers (Score:2)
The marketing "mind" never ceases to amaze me. What part of "Fuck off, telemarketer, I don't give a rat's fried patoot what you're selling" do they not understand?
Now that that's out of the way, just what did you mean by "a total pile of steaming excrement like MCI"?
I think the TPOSEADL (Total Pile Of Steaming Excrement Anti-Defamation League) would like a word with you.
Re: Fun with telemarketers (Score:2, Interesting)
> I signed up for our state do not call list, and probably would for the national one too. But sometimes it is fun to hassle them.
I always say "Hang on a sec...", lay the receiver down as quitely as I can, and forget about it until I hear it beeping. They waste my time --> I waste theirs.
That's tame (Score:4, Funny)
"Sorry, I'm getting a blowjob right now, and my girlfriend is getting a little mad that I'm not paying attention to her. "
You can have a lot of fun with this.
Re:Fun with telemarketers (Score:2)
Here are more subjects to talk about with a telemarketer:
I find an increasing level of impatience with these tactics. They usually hang up pretty fast, plus you amuse your friends on your end of the line.
Re:Fun with telemarketers (Score:2)
Re:Fun with telemarketers (Score:5, Funny)
"So. Is this really what you wanted to be when you grew up?"
Re:Fun with telemarketers (Score:3, Funny)
(telephone line) and (speaker out + delay) -> (modem line in)
Once you have a telemarketer on, pick up the line on your computer and talk over the mic, which happens to be delaying everything said for, say, 7 seconds and feeding it back into the conversation. After 14 seconds, there's three simulataneous conversations going on. Just make sure you say "hello?" a lot to get them really confused trying to answer all the echoes.
A bit hypocritical... (Score:2)
And take this with ya! (Score:4, Funny)
So they're making them pay for it too?
Hot damn. If I ever meet an FTC member they're getting a hug.
on my friends answering machine (Score:3, Interesting)
One day she got a message from a telemarketer cussing her out for the message, saying that they were only trying to make a living. Guess she struck a nerve with that telemarketer....
You know, my mugger told me the same thing. (Score:5, Funny)
I told him to place me on his "do not mug" list, but he didn't seem interested.
How the list will be abused: (Score:5, Interesting)
Here's what will happen:
List will be made available
Telemarketers will get hold of list.
SOME US based telemarketers will do what they're supposed to and leave the people on the list alone.
Others (I know one personally) will laugh and hand the list over to their call center as a list of verified numbers. If someone goes after them, they will weasel out of the lawsuit via claims of clerical errors. (Got him off the junk fax rap they faced in '97. This is a very sick SOB who honestly believes people WANT to receive SPAM)
finally, there will be a group that takes the list to another country and sets up a call center there.
Sure, you won't get as many calls from US telemarketers, but you'll get a boatload from Indian Telemarketers who laugh at phrase "Put me on your do not call list" reply.
Re:How the list will be abused: (Score:5, Interesting)
There are some big differences between telemarketing and spam that make abuse less likely:
1) "Verified" phone numbers can usually be found simply by opening up the phone book. People don't drop phone numbers nearly as often as they drop e-mail addresses. So the whole concept of verifying numbers isn't likely to be all that important to telemarketers.
2) It costs money to call from other countries. Obviously there are deals by which big companies can make it cost not-that-much; otherwise IBM wouldn't be setting up call centers in India. But I suspect the resources for that kind of thing are a little beyond the fly-by-night organizations that set up spam centers.
3) You can make life a lot harder for telemarketers than you can for people on the other end of spam. Scream at them, blow a whistle into the phone, press and hold buttons
Re:How the list will be abused: (Score:3, Insightful)
They'll probably end up building voice-over-IP networks for toll bypass, seriously. :-/ That's for the price of some basic computer telephony, some $20/hr foreign engineering, and some leased lines.
Re:How the list will be abused: (Score:3, Insightful)
I agree. Pennsylvania has a DNC list that started last September. Compliance was mandatory as of November. I think I received 1 or 2 calls the first week, but decided that I'd be "nice" about it until November 15. Since then, I haven't received a single TM call. Prior to that, I used to get at least two every evening.
Since I haven't received any calls, I can't verify the out of state thing. However, if somebody does call and claim that the law doesn't apply to them, I'll simply ask them for their name, company the work for and company on behalf of which they are calling. Then I'll suggest that now would be a good time for a career change while I'm firing up my computer to draft a letter to my AG.
I also don't think moving their operation out of the country is going to have a long term impact on the effectiveness of a nationwide DNC list. Instead, it's more likely that the law will be changed to hold companies who employ firms that operate in this manner responsible. For example, I used to receive annoying solicitations for Discover, all of which came from a telemarketing powerhouse that Discover was using. If that telemarketing company relocates to India, I think it's reasonable to expect that laws would eventually be passed that charge Discover with large fines every time the law is violated. Eventually, Discover is either going to drop them, or start charging them for all the fines they have to pay out.
Re:How the list will be abused: (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, but realize that "made available" is not a free thing... it costs money to get it. It costs more money to not get it though...
SOME US based telemarketers will do what they're supposed to and leave the people on the list alone
More like most.
Others (I know one personally) will laugh and hand the list over to their call center as a list of verified numbers. If someone goes after them, they will weasel out of the lawsuit via claims of clerical errors
And most judges will let him know that it would behoove him to not have clerical errors in the future, and here's a fine for $500 per incident as incentive. Next case.
Frankly, your acquaintence is an idiot and a moron. He's using telephone numbers of people who have explicitly said "I won't buy from you" as "verified numbers"? That's called wasting money - and it's his own money, not his client's money, because he can't charge significantly more for telemarketing services than his competitors. Filtering out DNC numbers is a quick, computer-driven task. Having people call the number and be told off is a slow, expensive task.
Sure, you won't get as many calls from US telemarketers, but you'll get a boatload from Indian Telemarketers who laugh at phrase "Put me on your do not call list" reply
Uh huh... because running a call center using international phone rates is so much cheaper than using state-to-state rates... Sure, you save on labor costs, but you're still going to get nailed by the "calling people who will never, ever buy your product" bit.
Frankly, let the scum of the scum do this crap. They'll be weeded out by market forces alone.
Re:How the list will be abused: (Score:3, Insightful)
Not necessarily. Try this on for size:
1) SmegCo, the telemarketing company, promises to market your product or service for $0.20 per completed call. (As opposed to ForeskinJuiceMarketing, the "reputable" telemarketer that observes the DNC lists and charges $1.00 per call for scum like AT&T.)
2) Trailer Trash LLC, some dirtball in a trailer park in Floriduh, reads about SmegCo and says "Dayam! That's whut ah needz to permote my timeshare scam!! Ah kin reach five times as many suckers with SmegCo than with ForeskinJuice, and besides, ForeskinJuice guys called me a scammer and hung up on me. The SmegCo salesman I talked to understands me, that I'm just an honest small bidnizman!"
3) Trailer Trash LLC, cuts a check for $1000 to SmegCo.
4) SmegCo takes $1000, makes 5000 calls to "verified" numbers, all of which tell SmegCo's reps to fuck themselves in various bodily orifices.
5) Trailer Trash LLC doesn't make any money. But SmegCo's not about making money for Trailer Trash LLC - they're about making mone for SmegCo.
The aforementioned scenario is played out all the time in the email spam world. Bigtime Spammer sells spamware, and sells "spam runs" to local losers trying to run their scams. Bigtime Spammer makes money whether the local losers make cash or not.
The numbers and breakeven points are certainly different in telemarketing, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that (deliberately) ignoring DNC lists is profitable business for at least some telemarketing firms.
Re:How the list will be abused: (Score:3, Informative)
As far as I know, the idea is not to give the Do Not Call list out to telemarketers, but to take the telemarketer's list, run it against the DNC list, and remove all phone numbers on the DNC list from the telemarketer's list.
Seems like that would be hard to abuse as you suggested.
Most of my family members live in Colorado, which has a working DNC list, and they've all signed up for it. My mother, who is retired and at home during the day at times, says it has significantly reduced the number of calls she gets. Since she also signed up for the DMA's DNC list, the only people that call her any more are scam artists who set up boiler rooms in Florida, and politicians, who (of course) exempted themselves from it. <wry grin>
Apparently she doesn't get many of those, however, because she never even lets them finish their spiel. ;>
Re:Maybe, maybe not........ (Score:2)
if it's anything like new york's state run DNC List, it's per incident and the cash goes straight to the victim.
one of the things that would make this really wonderful is if every phone number in the US was subscribed to it automatically when it became active. you can always remove yourself from the DNC list, and there might be someone somewhere that wants to get called in the middle of dinner to hear about how much money they can save by switching to vinyl siding.
Stupid, stupid businessmen (Score:3, Funny)
I want to start a business where I send people bills in the mail that they must pay. Sure this is a stupid business model, but I want a law that makes it work, dammit!
Oh, and I'd better patent this business plan fast!
Re:Stupid, stupid businessmen (Score:2, Insightful)
Ok, fine then. (Score:3, Insightful)
Opt Out (Score:3, Insightful)
Phones are slightly different, because a) they can't phone you from the island of Vanatau that easily (perhaps - voIP could change this) and b) there are laws (in the U.S. anyway) forcing them to respect the do-not-call (aka opt-out) list. So really, they only like 'Opt Out' when they can ignore it. This isn't really surprising though, considering the lack of morals we've repeatedly seen from direct marketers.
State Wide is not enough (Score:4, Informative)
I live in a State (CT) that has such a list but we still receive numerous unsoliticed calls and subsequent hangups when we inform them they've violated state law. Problem is that the state apparently doesn't have juristiction and/or not enough bandwidth to go after some of the out of state companies. I'm all for a Federal list.
Simple solution.. (Score:4, Informative)
buy a Telezapper or make your own with these tones [grub.net]. Simply put these on your answering machine before any speaking. The tones will play and will fool most of the remote machines into thinking you have a disconnected number.
Pick one (Score:3, Interesting)
Making it legally binding doesn't harm the reputable companies, only those that ignore it now.
What do they want? an Opt In list?
I don't want charity or political organizations calling me either, why can't we get rid of them?
Who follows it anyway? (Score:2)
I am on that list, and I still get four or five calls a day. Are you saying I would be getting more if I weren't on the opt out list?
For a while, setting my phone to reject calls from "Private" numbers blocked them. That worked for about 6 months--now they have all found some technical fix that lets them through. I predict the same will happen for the "Zapper".
I ask every telemarketer to put me on the don't call list, which they are required to do. Their latest trick is to reply, "Please hold so that you can discuss this with my supervisor." Translation: getting on the don't-call list will cost you an extra 10 minutes of frustration.
Re:Pick one (Score:2)
Because politicians will never vote to restrict themselves; only targeted voter outrage will make a difference. I decided my last vote in part because I refuse to vote for telemarketing politicians, and we'll have to do so in the future for unrepentant spammers like Sen. Lieberman.
Oddly, the Democrats seem (in the limited sample set I've seen) to be the big users of spam and telemarketing. Either the Republicans are, as usual, slow in comprehending technology, or the Democrats are, as usual, quick to claim the time and resources of others.
--G
My response to the Direct Marketing Association (Score:3)
MY SYSTEM WORKS! (Score:2, Funny)
"Charities" are my favorite since the solicitor organisations that call you actually take 85% of the money or more. The stupid charity that loans thier name gets almost nothing.
RESULT: 1 telemarketing call on average a MONTH!
I refuse to hide behind my phone machine to "screen" calls. This means I have to give up services I PAID FOR. When I get a machine I usually don't leave a message so those that do that lose real calls. Besides the telemarketers just call back again.
"they are just doing thier jobs" some say, fine, so are burgulars....if you want to soft soap them, they will keep calling you...they don't call me!
Opting-out (Score:5, Funny)
My wife recently told me that she was clicking on an opt-out link on some bit of spam and I nearly tackled her out of her chair to keep her from doing it.
You can't let them know you're there! Pull the shades! Rip the phone out of the wall! Gag the dog!
Strangely, I agree with them for once... (Score:5, Funny)
Any telemarketer violating this opt-in list, whether for commercial, charity, or survey purposes would be subject to life in a Mexican prison without parole. Then again, sending all our telemarketers to Mexico would probably be an act of war... my apologies to any mexicans reading this, I retract that last part.
IPChains for the Telephon (Score:2, Funny)
guess I'm going to have to write out a module for IPChains for the phone....
Re:IPChains for the Telephon (Score:3, Insightful)
I know you're being kind of sarcastic here, but you're talking about something I'm sure a lot of people'd like to have. I'd love to run our phone line through my computer so that it can filter the BS calls. One of the features I wanted to have was a 'Press the right 4-digit code in order to make the phone ring, otherwise you will be transferred to voice mail'.
So the rules would be like:
-Let anybody on my contact list through.
-Let anybody with the following codes through.
-Anybody left over that has a Caller ID number, send them to voicemail.
-Anybody left over that does not have a caller ID may only leave their phone number.
Man I'd LOVE to institute that on my phone.
Re:IPChains for the Telephon (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.asteriskpbx.org
Write your own AGI script that takes into account things like time of day, ringing caller id, etc etc.
If every handset in your house is an asterisk extension, and asterisk is the only telco-facing system, you will have 100% control of when your phones ring (and how, as asterisk will send any ring-pattern you want)
For legal reasons, you may want to have one other traditional phone plugged into the telco-facing network, with its ringer permanantly off. That way in the event of a PBX failure, you can still dial 911, but the phone will never ring.
I planned on doing this so my grandmother would _always_ go straight to voicemail, with no internal extensions ringing, whenever she tried to call me before noon.
Re:IPChains for the Telephon (Score:2)
The problem is that many of my friends, disgusted with the ridiculous cost of non-local calling from the telcos are all using other methods...like datanet. These always come through on callerid as 'unknown'
So, I dropped the project before starting it. I do, however, put the SIT tones at the beginning of my answering machine. That seems to have curbed the calls quite a bit.
re: saw this someplace. (Score:2)
Let me see. Sure, I'll part with my money to someone who calls me out of the blue, offers to sell me a product I may or may not be interested in, on a whim. I have NO idea who this person is, the stability of their company.
Yeah, that would be a bright financial decision.
Such two-faced complicity (Score:2)
You'd think the DMA would be all for a national opt-out list. Especially when they already run one themselves for paper mailings.
After all, what's the point of sending adverts to people who have taken the time and effort to opt out? Surely such people are not your target audience.
Problem is, telemarketing is big big business that relies on pressure selling. They're probably worried that children will put their aged parents on a no-call list, which will undermine the lucrative direct-to-seniors funeral insurance market.
Plus, if MA is anything to go by, it could be more than half of all residential numbers may opt out of calls. That's a much higher percentage of opt-outs that for the DMA member's paper mailings. They're probably reasoning that such a high opt-out rate *must* have some negative effect on sales.
A horn-blower usually works just as well (Score:2)
Re:A horn-blower usually works just as well (Score:2)
Re:A horn-blower usually works just as well (Score:2)
evidence for this (Score:4, Interesting)
We have it here in the UK for both phone and postal varients, and from my experience it works well, YMMV of course.
We used to get lots of phone and postal spam. We signed up and after 3 months it started receeding and now we get no phone spam and very very little postal spam.
Re:evidence for this (Score:3, Insightful)
It reduces the number of people that they can call and try to get to buy their crap, therefore it doesn't work. Remember your idea of a DNC list "working" and the DMA's idea of "working" are different.
big brother? (Score:2)
Phone numbers (Score:2, Informative)
Kentucky's No-Call List (Score:2, Informative)
- Telemarketers who have a prior or existing business relationship with you.
- Telemarketers who have received an express request from you to call.
- Telemarketers with whom you have an existing debt or contract.
- Telemarketers soliciting only donations for charities.
- Telemarketers who call your business.
Seems fair to me.Re:Kentucky's No-Call List (Score:2)
I wonder though. Have you gotten more paper junk mail in your snail mail box? It seems I'm fishing out circulars every day hoping I won't miss a bill or regular letter. I wonder if there's a correlation.
As much as I hate telemarketers (Score:3, Interesting)
I've found that when I tell people to put me on their do not call list, that they usually do comply. My biggest problem is that I recently moved (just across town, same phone number, mind you), and I started getting the calls again. It seems the phone company is quite the whore with your personal information. Same with the post office (I received tons of coupons from Lowe's, etc as soon as I changed my address).
I've had to resort to putting the 'three tone' back on my answering machine (search for SIT.WAV on google...I'm not about to have my own little server slashdotted :)
We have a DNC list here (Score:3, Interesting)
One thing to watch out for is that in many cases, when a "telemarketer" calls when your name is on a DNC list, it's not a telemarketer at all: it's a scam operation. If they refuse to hang up and refuse to provide details, they almost certainly ARE a scam group! Just something to be wary of.
Giving the benefit of the doubt ... (Score:2)
In a related story (Score:2)
A member who would only speak to us with his face turned all grey and fuzzy for some reason, and a voice that sounds like some cheap sci-fi movie robot talking through a tin can had this to say:
"Look, the current laws just don't make a viable business model for our endeavors. We're just legitimate businessmen. We're just trying to earn a living. We have families to feed, just like everyone else and we have a right to do so. Not only that but the law *requires* that we do everything we can to produce value for our "stockholders." It just isn't right for the law to arbitrarily prevent us from going about our normal, everyday business.
We have to eat too you know. We have a *right* to make a living."
Then he shot our sound technician while mumbling something about unpaid sports gambling debts.
If you would like to support this cause you can make donations by calling your local paving company and whispering " Seabiscuit in the fifth."
They'll know what to do.
KFG
Waste their time...cost them money. (Score:3, Interesting)
Intrusive government laws (Score:2)
My business model is to mug people and take their wallets. Look around the country and you will see that hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people are trying to make a living using this very model.
Thank goodness we now have a pro-business court system that will step in on behalf of muggers everywhere.
Why is this a legal issue? (Score:2)
Since when do the rights of US citizens depend on whether or not an industry whose entire business model is based a dubious technology get to have unpopular laws passed to protect their pitiful existence? Oh... [216.239.39.100] wait... [pigdog.org]
This makes sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Telemarketers will absolutely not hang up the phone just by you saying 'no' politely. A national DNC would mean that those people could make a single phone call, and never have to feel bad about wanting to hang up on a telemarketer.
Even so, the nationwide DNC is a good idea, and I'm even more so for it by seeing that they're against it. IMHO, If your entire business model is based on calling people who don't want you to call, then fuck your business.
Many people would, at this point, compare this to spam, Which would almost work, but telemarketing is 1000x worse than spam to me, for a few reasons:
My personal email address gets 2 spam messages every one to three days. Just, if you have to have your email address posted somewhere, spamproof it a little. I doubt that any of you that refuse to do this go around writing your phone number on public walls...
I work late. I don't get to sleep till around 5am, usually. I don't get woken up to deal with spam 3 hours after i've fallen asleep. I don't deal with spam during dinner. I don't deal with spam while I'm concentrated on a good video game. I don't deal with spam in the middle of sex. It just goes into a small folder in sylpheed and I delete it when i feel like it.
There actually are a lot of spammers who put an "ADV: " at the beginning of their subject line. Another example is repeat spammers- those who email you every week or so letting you know that your website can be listed on the top 300 search engines for some relatively[1] nominal fee.
When you're bored, and you notice an email that says:
Subject: I JUST GOT LOTR:TTT IN HIGH QUALITY!
i just went to http://www.theres-no-lotr-here-only-naked-people.
AND THEY HAD THE NEW LOTR MOVIE! YOU SHOULD GO THERE TOO!
Well, at least I got a chuckle out of it.
Spam really doesn't bother me nearly as much as telemarketing. This nationwide DNC list is a very very good thing.
[1] According to Miss Vanessa Lintner, who sends me this important email every few days, although the prices may be high, it will make me a lot more money by having my site listed on over 6,000 search engines, including specialty ones like where-can-i-find-a-cheap-gay-whore.com or scatsearch.net..
what will be next? (Score:2, Funny)
Hopefully a dozen other forms of advertising.
Phone Number of Robert Weintzen, President of DMA (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not sure if it's the right number, but it could be a starting point ! Have fun
Charge anyone for a call (Score:4, Interesting)
Discouraging telemarketers will be only one application of this technology. For example, people can make a buck answering short computer questions without setting up 900 number or credit card processing. Or, companies with valid, personalized offers for you can show they are serious by paying for your ears.
As for abuses, they will quickly take care of themselves. If a bozo charges everyone for calls, he will be quickly left alone. If you charge a company you have an account with, they will just bill you back for the pleasure and then you will be able to dispute your bill with the government if they did spam you. If you dialed a wrong number - well it's just five bucks. Watch your fingers. Telemarketers on the other hand, if they still exist, will compile their own don't call lists based on their financial losses.
The way to stop telemarketers (Score:5, Funny)
[Telemarketer]: Good evening, sir! I'm calling from -insert company here- and we'd like to tell you about an amazing new offer on our new -insert product here-!
[Me]: Well, I'd certainly be interested in your -insert product here- but first, I'd like to talk to you about the Lord Jesus Christ(TM) and your future in the Kingdom of Heaven(TM).
[Telemarketer]: huh?
[Me]: Now, sir, are you absolutely sure that your soul will go to Heaven(TM) when you die?
[Telemarketer]: Um, well,
[Me]: Because, you know, Jesus(SM) died for your sins, and those who know Him(TM), I mean the True Him(TM) are guaranteed a place in God's(TM) Kingdom(TM) when the Rapture(TM) arrives.
[Telemarketer]: Well, I never, um...
[Me]: And it's a documented fact that the Bible(TM) guarantees that the children of Jehovah(TM) have a place in that Holy Domain(TM). Now sir, do you go to church regularly?
By this time, the telemarketer is so damn disturbed that s/he usually hangs up and I never get a call from them again.
I suppose you could use a telemarketer spiel on the Mormons(TM) and Jehovahs(TM) that come to your door, but they've stopped bugging me since I got my "No Bible Thimpers" sticker [plugnpay.com] from darwinfish.com.
Re:The way to stop telemarketers (Score:3, Funny)
Put phone on hold. And forget about it completely.
DMA President H. Robert Weintzen Home Phone # (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps Robert would like to hear from everyone
here "exercising their free speech"
Or drop him a snail mail...
265 E. 66th St.
NY, NY 10021
Opt-out's not viable?! (Score:5, Insightful)
An opt-out list is a list of people who won't buy your product, so you don't have to waste your time selling to them. What's more, it keeps you from reminding people who are sufficiently averse that you telemarket.
And they think an opt-out list would hurt their business?! It can only improve their business!
How mind-boggling.
Why the DMA is fighting this (Score:4, Informative)
The FTC and the DoJ would be their worst enemy. If a national DNC policy became official and it is violated, then it is within the fed's jurisdiction to prosecute. The FTC has teeth that the DMA fears.
The DMA wants to keep the status quo of separate state DNC lists because they know that states aren't as likely to come after their members as the feds would and they know that state resources are limited. But if a federal-funded office like the FTC were to get involved...
Ironic that a national organization sues to keep a national law-enforcing office from becoming involved, isn't it?
Missouri's list has been nearly 100% effective (Score:5, Insightful)
I *never* want to receive unsolicited calls.
I have *never* purchased anything through an unsolicited call.
The Missouri No Call list SAVES telemarketing companies money because they don't have to waste their time or mine calling me. I pay for my phone service and I should be in control of who is allowed to use it and who isn't allowed.
The MO NO Call list still lets non-profit orgs and existing business relationships through. I don't really want calls from non-profit groups either, but they are fairly rare.
I did have a weird call today, some company called claiming to be a Domain Notification service and they had some information they wanted to fax me because their email system was down. I couldn't get them to tell me their name. She just kept saying, we're a "domain name notification service."
Consequently, Missouri HB228 is trying to create a No Email list. It has flaws in it's present state but we're working on making it beneficial to everyone except spammers.
And in other news... (Score:3, Funny)
Is a national DNC neccesary? (Score:4, Interesting)
The only real trouble I had recently was when the TV ratings company decided that they wanted me to report my viewing habits. They will not stop calling you. They will call at all times of the day and evening. They will purposely call 5 times throughout a single day because the person who's been answering the phone might not be "the one that their computer wants to get". They proudly proclaim that they can and do do all this because, since they are not selling anything, they are exempt from the laws regarding telemarketing.
I'll chime in (Score:3, Interesting)
I work the graveyard shift and occassionally take my son to daycare so I can catch up on some sleep. After a couple of night's of insomnia I try to catch up on some sleep and sure enough my head barely hits the pillow when the phone rings. It's a telemarketer. I figure no big deal. Ignore it and go back to bed.
The jerk procedes to keep calling every five to ten minutes for the next 45. I have to keep the phone on hook in case daycare calls about my son. In the end, this harrassment costs me two hours of sleep and I have to take my son to daycare the next day so I can try once again to get some sleep and be somewhat productive at work.
Fuck the telemarketing companies. Stuff like that messes with my livelyhood and I don't need to go through 50 calls a month telling each and every company who manages to get their mitts on my contact info to stop calling me. They don't have a right to one red cent of profit but I do have a right not to be harrassed and I shouldn't have to disable a basic service in my home to get away from it.
Well, that's my rant for the day. Thanks for reading it. I feel better now.
they should telemarket those things (Score:2, Funny)
Re:yeah right (Score:5, Insightful)
The previous poster is clearly in error. "Freedom of speech" is a diversion - this has absolutely nothing to do with free speech.
"Freedom of speech" means "you can say what you want." It does not mean "you can force people to listen to you."
If someone says "I don't want to hear from you", you can't force them to listen by claiming "free speech." Since that is exactly what a DNC list is, the whole "free speech" argument is BS.
Re:Doesn't bother me (Score:2)
The funny part is that I don't own a cell phone.
Re:Oh darn.... (Score:3, Funny)
I'm not disagreeing with you -- my mom used to keep a whistle at ever phone when I was a kid, and give a nice drawn out whistle to telemarketers.
The difference is the whistle she was using was a cheap plastic one, incapable of doing any long-term damage to ones eardrum.
I imagine a 110-120dB whistle could cause some long-term damage.
Besides, air horns are a lot more effective !