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RIAA: We Won't Pursue Mandated DRM Technologies 302

tekman writes "A New York Times article details an agreement between the RIAA and various hardware and software companies in which the RIAA has agreed to avoid seeking legislation that would mandate technologies in computers and other home electronics to restrict 'unauthorized' copying. The most interesting thing about this is the absence of the MPAA."
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RIAA: We Won't Pursue Mandated DRM Technologies

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  • Thank God (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Sanguis Mortuum ( 581999 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:14PM (#5084099)
    Well thank god for that, now we just need to hope we will still be able to buy non-palladium computers in a few years time.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:17PM (#5084115)
      ...entirely from 12AX7 tubes and individual capacitors, resistors, etc.
    • Re:Thank God (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Well thank god for that, now we just need to hope we will still be able to buy non-palladium computers in a few years time.

      You know, it isn't so much that I hate the RIAA because they don't want me to copy their music, but I hate the RIAA because they want to force restrictive technology into MY computers against my will. You know what, tell me you don't want me to pirate your music and I'd be happy to. Frankly I can do without ever listening to RIAA member music ever again, but leave me fucking computers alone.

  • by slagdogg ( 549983 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:15PM (#5084105)
    "So stop hacking us, damnit!"
  • Fair Use (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Angram ( 517383 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:17PM (#5084118)
    "...the Business Software Alliance and the Computer Systems Policy Project said they would not support legislation that seeks to bolster the rights of users of digital copyrighted material, which the recording industry has said is unnecessary..."
    I don't like this at all. I doubt we'll be getting fair use back anytime soon. In fact, I bet this compromise was just a way for the RIAA to get rid of its opposition in removing it.
    • Re:Fair Use (Score:5, Interesting)

      by LostCluster ( 625375 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:34PM (#5084246)
      This basically says that the RIAA and electronic companies would rather copyright not come up in congress right now, because both would rather keep the situation as-is than allow there to be any meaningful changes in either direction.
      • Re: Fair Use (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Black Parrot ( 19622 )


        > This basically says that the RIAA and electronic companies would rather copyright not come up in congress right now, because both would rather keep the situation as-is than allow there to be any meaningful changes in either direction.

        I'd be willing to wager that they're only concerned about the possibility of meaningful changes in one direction.

        • Re: Fair Use (Score:5, Interesting)

          by twofidyKidd ( 615722 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @08:28PM (#5084900)
          More accurate might be the fact that they are running out of money to fight this war.

          Their industry as they know it is slated to collapse in the next 5 years, and given the numbers they are putting up, it's very possible.

          Here's another indicator. The highest selling album of the year is Eminem's latest. It sold 6.5 million copies in the 6 months or so after its release. Spiderman on DVD sold 11 mill in one week...
        • I'd be willing to wager that they're only concerned about the possibility of meaningful changes in one direction.

          Who?

          Electronics companies like consumers having more ability to do what they like with content -- being able to make more copies of things and play them in more places means buying the hardware to play them in those places, bigger disk drives, etc etc. They're concerned about losing the ability to make things like the TiVo, and about being legally forced to include expensive copy protection technologies in products (telephone answering machines?) where they really don't belong.

          The RIAA and MPAA are concerned about movement in the opposite direction -- making it easier for consumers to access content they've paid for in a variety of ways (and, in doing so, weakening the copy protection they're working so hard to make mandatory).

          So while each of them is concerned about one direction, the goals differ. So no, it's not just one direction they're concerned about.
    • Re:Fair Use (Score:5, Interesting)

      by zurab ( 188064 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @07:01PM (#5084415)
      This reads even more discouraging in the Yahoo article [yahoo.com]:

      Lobbyists for some of the nation's largest technology companies will use the new agreement to oppose efforts in Congress to broaden the rights of consumers, such as explicitly permitting viewers to make backup copies of DVDs for personal use or to copy songs onto handheld listening devices.

      This again makes congress look like a bunch of puppets with a lot of make-up. What gets them elected is a big shiny megaphone that they receive as a gift from BSA, RIAA, or other "special interest" groups. I guess all they have to do for the next election is scream "terrorists... terrorists... terrorists..." through it and they'll get the pass from the crowd. Democracy my @$$! That word, along with Freedom and Rights have lost their respective meanings. Welcome to the era of Security (DMCA), Privacy (DRM), and Patriotism (USPA).

      Difference in opinion may land you in jail for federal crime(s).
  • by xanie ( 446372 ) <xanie@xan i e . c om> on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:18PM (#5084124) Homepage
    Wow... funny in the same day.

    this [slashdot.org]

    And now this!

    If indeed they do have access to a lot of P2P networks, this would go along with MANY peoples comments about them not needing DRM anymore.

    Fishy?

    I hope not.
  • Good (Score:5, Funny)

    by sheepab ( 461960 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:18PM (#5084125) Homepage
    <sarcasm>I recieved an iPod for Christmas and I'd kinda like to keep it....</sarcasm>
  • by SubtleNuance ( 184325 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:18PM (#5084127) Journal
    Does anyone else find the statment "details an agreement between the RIAA and various hardware and software companies in which the RIAA has agreed to avoid seeking legislation a little uncomfortable?

    the idea, that, two multi-national business organizations (comp. ind. / riaa) have basically made an agreement to A) not "buy" some legislation from their corrupt governmnet and B) further collude in some way to determine the future of the industry.. i thought these people were supposed to be COMPETING???

    how f'ing obvious can this be...
    • Well said! Wish I had mod points for you.
    • by BitterOak ( 537666 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:42PM (#5084302)
      I wasn't aware the music industry was supposed to be competing with the technology industry.

      In any event, although I'm glad to see that one thing they agree on is that government intervention is bad. I wish the movie industry had signed on, as they are a potentially more powerful lobby group.

      • by glesga_kiss ( 596639 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @08:45PM (#5084969)
        I wasn't aware the music industry was supposed to be competing with the technology industry.

        They are competing for your money. It's your choice where it goes and both want as much of it as possible.

        p2p and "free" music are generally based around "new" technology like computers, broadband, portable media players, software tools like CD to mp3 converters and so on. I'd always considered the RIAA as fighting new technology since they started to get on their high horse. They'd rather we were rebuying "The Dark Side of the Moon" on vinyl, cassette, CD then DRM than converting it to mp3s from the CD itself. No profit for them, simple ecconomics. Plus, you can easilly make a copy for the car or holiday home when you might have bought multiple copies instead.

        It's worrying that they are colluding. Unless they have just realised they can't possibly win this war without having an mp3 police to break down your door and delete your files, and have full control of the software on the internet. It was always a pipe dream.

    • Your signature, it is http://www.fairvotecanada.org not .com, and thank you for the links :-)
    • by MyNameIsFred ( 543994 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:52PM (#5084357)
      Actually, they're doing what Congress told them to do. As you may remember, a couple of years ago during the height of the Napster craze, Congress looked at forcing the music industry to provide music over the Internet. Some of the guidance from Congress, was "industry fix this problem or we'll fix it for you." Anyone who has experienced Congress' help, would rather avoid it in the future. So it is not surprising that these two groups got together. In fact, it is a good thing. Do YOU really want Congress deciding this issue.
      • You ask, Do YOU really want Congress deciding this issue., and I have to answer yes. Congress is responsible for copyright law and should adjust it according to technology available. When the price of publication falls, less exclusivity is needed to promote the useful arts and the lenght of copyright should be shortened. If technology is used to defeat the public domain, Congress may decide that copyright is no longer necessary.

        You think I'm a loon? Congress is elected and it's members will do what it takes to stay that way. It's a simple matter to convince people their rights are being infringed, given the current state of outrageous copyright laws. If the public turns its attention to this issue for long, they might just understand it - and poof, many Mikey Mouse schemes will vaporize. Publishers make their living by wooing the public. Time lays waste the plans of mice and men.

    • by ender's_shadow ( 302302 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @07:23PM (#5084542) Homepage
      Agreed. "Our industries need to work together for the consumer to benefit and for our respective businesses to grow." -Hilary Rosen.
    • How the hell are the technology and media industries supposed to be competing? That's like talking about the potted plant industry competing with the automobile industry. The two are unrelated, except for the fact that you might transport the products of the former in the products of the latter.

      What the RIAA has been doing would be like trying to introduce new legsliation on automobiles on how they had to be built, to cater to the bussiness model of the potted plant industry.
  • Full Text (Score:2, Informative)

    by futuresheep ( 531366 )
    Music and Computer Companies Agree on Antipiracy Plan
    By AMY HARMON

    he big record companies said today that they would not seek government intervention to prevent digital piracy, in a compromise with technology companies that may hurt the efforts of the motion picture industry to win support for its own antipiracy plans.

    The recording industry and two trade groups representing computer makers and software companies said they had arrived at several basic principles of an agreement that would help ease the tensions between their industries. They said they planned to convene a meeting of senior executives to discuss technical solutions to combat the illegal copying of digital material.

    "This agreement says that those who seek to put the burden of piracy on the technology are simply missing the point," said Robert Holleyman, president of the Business Software Alliance, whose members include Microsoft, Apple Computer and Adobe Systems "Technology can be part of the solution, but it is not the entire solution."

    As part of the agreement, the Recording Industry Association of America said it would oppose legislation that would require computers and consumer electronics devices to be designed to restrict unauthorized copying of audio and video material. Technology executives have hotly opposed such measures, which they argue would slow innovation, add costs to their devices and do little to stop piracy.

    "We think businesses are capable of meeting these challenges," said Hillary Rosen, president of the Recording Industry Association, at a news conference in Washington. "Our industries need to work together for the consumer to benefit and for our respective businesses to grow."

    In turn, the Business Software Alliance and the Computer Systems Policy Project said they would not support legislation that seeks to bolster the rights of users of digital copyrighted material, which the recording industry has said is unnecessary.

    Several consumer groups and some technology companies, including Intel and Gateway, have supported legislation proposed by Representative Rick Boucher, Democrat of Virginia, that seeks to clarify the rights of copyright users in a digital age.

    "As a matter of first order, we believe the marketplace should address these issues," said Ken Kay, executive director of the Computer Systems Policy Project, whose group represents Intel, as well as Dell Computer Hewlett-Packard and others.

    Many consumer electronics companies did not join the agreement. They contend legislation like Rep. Boucher's is necessary to ensure that consumers can make fair use of digital copyrighted material even when it is locked up to prevent illegal copying.

    The recording industry's agreement with the computer trade groups marks a departure from its longtime alliance with the motion picture industry on the antipiracy front and underscores their divergent concerns. The music industry may already have taken the hardest hit from digital piracy that it will have to face, as it begins to experiment with technological copy-protection on compact discs.

    But the motion picture industry is worried that digital television broadcasts and movies copied off of DVD's will soon be traded over the Internet in the same high volumes as music is currently. Hollywood movie and television studios view federal intervention as a key element in avoiding the same fate as the recording industry.

    Jack Valenti, president of the Motion Picture Association of America, said his organization still believed that "no reasonable alternative course of action should be eliminated from consideration."

    "We are not prepared to abandon the option of seeking technical protection measures via the Congress or appropriate regulatory agency, when necessary," Mr. Valenti, said in a statement. "Designing ways to protect valuable creative works is very much in the long-term best interests of consumers and indispensable to the nourishment of our nation's economy."

    Since the recording industry had never been a strong supporter of legislation that would mandate technical solutions to digital piracy, industry analysts said Ms. Rosen appeared to have conceded little that would have a far-reaching effect on the companies she represents.

    But the move may make it harder for Mr. Valenti's group to achieve its aims.

    "It has a great deal of symbolic value," said Gigi Sohn, president of Public Knowledge, a nonprofit group that has opposed legislative mandates on technology. "Public policy makers are going to ask why isn't the recording industry pushing for mandates when they're the ones getting killed?"

    • Re:Full Text (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Blkdeath ( 530393 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @07:19PM (#5084527) Homepage
      Music and Computer Companies Agree on Antipiracy Plan
      By AMY HARMON

      I was going to moderate this as 'Redundant' (yes, folks, watch out - I'm armed again!) but decided instead to respond.

      Copyright issues aside (you didn't give credit for the source - The New York Times online edition); their servers are not likely to be Slashdotted any time soon. Granted, Joe DSL will probably be Slashdotted within his first five minutes on the front page, but the NYT have big pipes - like Adonis big pipes.

      Please, people, stop aiding blatant Karma-whoring.

      • I don't need or care about the Karma. I could give a rats ass about sites getting slasdotted, and since at the top of this paget there's a link and credit to the NYT, I doubt that there's any copyright infringement.

        I did it as a service to those that don't want to register with the NYT.
  • It's just PR (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jason1729 ( 561790 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:18PM (#5084131)
    There is no way they'd be able to pass legislation requiring computers to have DRM. They'd have to prove computers have no other use besides playing media. Not even the RIAA can bribe enough politicians for that.

    They're just trying to spin the fact that they can't force that kind of legislation to make it sound like they're being the good guys.

    What difference does it make to them if there's that kind of legislation anyway? They're doing everything they can to restrict their CDs to DRM players as it is.

    Jason
    ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
    • Re:It's just PR (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Jonny Ringo ( 444580 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:40PM (#5084288)
      Or is because the software and hardware companies are going to mandate DRM anyways? If that's the case why bother with legislation.
      • Re:It's just PR (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Jason1729 ( 561790 )
        That does seem to be the way things are going, but what's in it for the software and hardware companies? How can they profit by going out of their way to give the customer a broken product?

        Maybe selling DRM hardware and software will be the only way the products will be able to access media in the future, and they figure more people care about watching the latest Britney Spears video than about their fair use rights. Unfortunately, that's true, but I think most people who want to watch videos and listen to music on their computers are the ones who do car about fair use. The ones who just want to access the media will use dedicated devices.

        This leaves nobody to buy the crippled computer hardware and software, which is as it should be

        Jason
        ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
    • The difference is money.

      "How can I help it thet power likes to walk on crooked legs?"
      -- Friederich Nietzsche, "Also Sprach Zarathustra"

      *sigh* I guess it's time to change my sig...
  • No mandated restrictions in computers
    or other electronics, moreover;
    does it seem to anyone else
    that hell is freezing over?
  • Gotta wonder... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonvmous Coward ( 589068 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:20PM (#5084148)
    ... what sparked this change of heart. Is the RIAA afraid of Intel and other big companies entering the legal battle? Do they finally realize that they could make money by making internet specific products with these people as allies? Have they figured out that by getting the laws passed, the consumers out there would be made aware of the RIAA's attempts to mess with their rights?

    I can't help but think there's a juicy story behind this decision.
    • Re:Gotta wonder... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by killmenow ( 184444 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:30PM (#5084223)
      I think the real reason they've agreed to agree and stop pursuing new laws is because they figured out the harder they push for new legislation to protect themselves, the harder others (eg. Rick Boucher [house.gov]) will push for additional laws to protect consumers' fair use.

      If they stop the push to legislate for business, the push to legislate for consumers lessens and they can do whatever they want since there are no laws against it.
      • "If they stop the push to legislate for business, the push to legislate for consumers lessens and they can do whatever they want since there are no laws against it."

        In light of that, would I be correct in declaring that /. helped win a battle for the little guy?
    • Re:Gotta wonder... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by MattCohn.com ( 555899 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:50PM (#5084346)
      I think it's just because they found out that no one will support them, and they will eventualy fail. They spend millions on these things, and then people with REAL knowledge of computers defeat them (Black marker, anyone?). Since this stuff has started they havn't been able to keep their website online for more then a month, showing their lack of computer knowledge, and the knowledge of the people they are pissing off.

      From earlier in the comments...

      Translation ... (Score:5, Funny)
      "So stop hacking us, damnit!"

      Sounds to me like it's not all humor, but some truth. They have found that the market WILL NOT EAT their bullshit, so they are stepping back as carefully as they can in order to not look like the bunch of spineless techno-asswipes they are.

      PS. The earlier story was a fake. Obviously it was that stupid hacking groups way of showing a vunerability in MPG123, and nothing more.
      • Re:Gotta wonder... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Panoramix ( 31263 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @09:33PM (#5085189) Homepage
        They have found that the market WILL NOT EAT their bullshit, so they are stepping back as carefully as they can in order to not look like the bunch of spineless techno-asswipes they are.

        How I wish that were true. But I'm not convinced. The thread's parent asked "Gotta wonder ... what sparkled this change of heart? [...] can't help but think there's a juicy story behind this decision."

        Well, here's my theory: The RIAA just realized that DRM will not have to be pushed by legislation. Once finantial institutions, online retailers, software companies, and media publishers realize exactly what DRM technology buys for them, it will be them that will require--no, demand it, from the ISPs and their users. There is no need for legal coercion, when you can use four or more industries to push it on their customers.

        DRM allows big companies to restrict what you can do with your computer. That means "email and documents that can not be printed or duplicated, or altered or forged", "media that can not be permanently stored, much less shared", "software that can not be pirated". Do you think that there is a single bank that does not want that for online transactions? A single large software company that does not want to use it for selling big and expensive packages online? A single media company that does not want it to sell movies, music and books?

        DRM's technical design is simple and remarkably effective. Very well designed, very, very evil. And, best of all (for them, not for us), it can be introduced slowly, in little steps, so that nobody realizes what's going on until it is too late.

        Consider the story about the TCPA-enabled chip from AMI, from a couple days ago. The chip is harmless enough, not stopping anything from working, just providing a small additional feature (bootloader hashing) that can be even useful for a few people, and that of course can be disabled (I'm almost sure about that). But it is there, and it is part of step one: deployment. When Windows 2006, or whatever, is released, there will be already thousands of machines with such feature. Then that you'll start to have problems downloading things from a couple of places, and then more, until someone tells you that you just need to enable the little dicken and your problems will be gone.

        Oh, but you'll have to use Windows, or OS-X, or other DRM enabled OS, too. But everybody uses that, right? So there's no problem at all.

        Last time I posted something about this, I got an encouraging reply, which I think is the only thing we can do: If those companies abuse their new power, which is almost certain that they will do, people just may get too annoyed, and start looking for alternatives. We have to build alternatives while there's still time.

        Also, IMO Linux should be starting to look for a way to implement DRM, without compromising its principles (or well, without compromising them too much). Maybe someone, say like the FSF, could provide DRM signing of binaries, so that we can still use OSS for dealing with this crap.

        Anyway, I think it's foolish to sigh in relief, and cheer at news like this. DRM is here to stay, and you better get used too it.

  • Divide and conquer (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:21PM (#5084165)
    Seems like the RIAA and MPAA are thinking clearly and the tech industry isn't. Since the MPAA isn't party to this agreement, they can still campaign for enforced DRM. The tech industry promised the RIAA they wouldn't try to expand rights for consumers (translation: enforce current rights), so they probably won't campaign against the MPAA. The RIAA loses nothing since the MPAA will still do their lobbying, which the tech industry won't oppose them.
    • Please mod the parent up. As paranoid as it sounds, the point is interesting. The agreement was made with RIAA only, but effectively will apply to ALL other parties (such as MPAA)...
      weird...
    • Hmmmm...I was thinking more along the lines of the one side not campaigning for something since the other side would put it in anyway /and/ not lobby into law rights protecting the end user's right, quoth the line:

      "...the Business Software Alliance and the Computer Systems Policy Project said they would not support legislation that seeks to bolster the rights of users of digital copyrighted material, which the recording industry has said is unnecessary..."

      Add your point, and the MPAA has a free shot towards screwing the people without the people doing anything to stop them (appart from associations like the EFF, I hope).
    • by nytes ( 231372 )
      Many consumer electronics companies did not join the agreement. They contend legislation like Rep. Boucher's is necessary to ensure that consumers can make fair use of digital copyrighted material even when it is locked up to prevent illegal copying.
      So some companies are still pressing forward. It works both ways.

      --
  • It's a mixed bag (Score:5, Interesting)

    by n1ywb ( 555767 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:23PM (#5084178) Homepage Journal
    That part is great, so is the part about the technology companies (See Dell, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, etc) lobbying congress to NOT mandate DRM technology.

    The downside is that the tech companies have also agreed to a self-imposed DRM mandate, and will ALSO drop lobbying for greater consumer rights. From http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/news/4946117.ht m
    "In exchange, the tech companies agreed that government shouldn't alter laws to allow consumers to bypass copyright protection measures to make personal copies of DVDs and other digital works."

    Two steps forward, two steps back IMHO.
  • keyword: legislation. They would rather force us to use DRM invented by them or microsoft, instead of something that might be out of their hands.
  • by NoMoreNicksLeft ( 516230 ) <john.oyler@noSpAm.comcast.net> on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:26PM (#5084198) Journal
    Their idiotic hurrahs, I'd like to point out how sinister this actually is.

    The only literal thing that has happened, is that they promise not to push for laws that insist on hardware DRM. The manufacturers are of course free to implement it on their own.

    Which is the only possible explanation as to why the RIAA would cave like they have.

    This isn't a good thing, by far.
  • LOC: Load Of Crap (Score:4, Insightful)

    by program21 ( 469995 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:29PM (#5084218) Homepage Journal
    I don't believe a word of this. The legislation being considered for forcing DRM is a result of the RIAA lobbying. So it's 'their' legislation, they're just trying to quash any rumors that may have gotten out of the techy community, so that the average person who's heard the negative hears them say the opposite, shrugs, and stops caring.
  • "aggressively pursue digital pirates". This of course was a PR disaster so this story changed 30 minutes ago! The NY Times article I sent Slashdot has been deleted. That's it, I'm fsking prinitng everything that shows up the NYTimes with some new outrage. This is /not/ good news, all it means is that Hollywood and Silicon Valley have reached a dirty deal to turn your computer into a fink. Glin
    • "These technology companies, including Microsoft Corp., IBM, Intel Corp. and Dell Computer Corp., also pledged support Tuesday for aggressive enforcement against digital pirates." http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/technology/AP-Down loading-Music.html "Digital Pirates" - aka America
  • by LostCluster ( 625375 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:31PM (#5084230)
    If they had, it would have read like this... from the glass-is-half-empty dept.: Your Rights Online: Electronics makers to lobby against user rights That's the other half of the quid-pro-quo here. The RIAA is willing let go the idea of government mandated DRM, so long as the electronics companies promise to lobby against any pro-user expansions of the definiton of "fair use" or a guarenteed right to backups. Basically, the RIAA would rather have things stay the way they are, then to play the game in Congress. If the RIAA tried to argue for more than they have now, there's a risk that the debate might turn around and result in pro-consumer copyright law changes, and they'd rather talk people out of trying than taking that risk.
    • The RIAA got a lot more than the status quo! They enlisted the software and hardware manufacturers as their snoops.

      Don't read the New York Times whitewash. Read the AP article (which has been changed because the first draft on the wire was a total PR fiasco) but it does talk about what the BSA is obligated to do for the RIAA now:

      http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/technology/AP-Do wn loading-Music.html

      Glin
  • by asscroft ( 610290 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:32PM (#5084235)
    Seems to me the industries said "If the Tech Industry stops supporting laws that will ensure fair use rights are protected the RIAA will stop supporting laws that require anti-copying controls in all electronic equipment"

    We got hosed tommy, we got hosed.

    The idea of Senator Hollings bill was absolutely ludicrous and it wouldn't have been difficult to defeat. Boucher's bill, on the other hand seems to make sense and had a good chance of winning.

    I ask, is this a fair trade?

    Here's some of the article for those of you too cool to read it yourselves.

    As part of the agreement, the Recording Industry Association of America said it would oppose legislation that would require computers and consumer electronics devices to be designed to restrict unauthorized copying of audio and video material. Technology executives have hotly opposed such measures, which they argue would slow innovation, add costs to their devices and do little to stop piracy.

    "We think businesses are capable of meeting these challenges," said Hillary Rosen, president of the Recording Industry Association, at a news conference in Washington. "Our industries need to work together for the consumer to benefit and for our respective businesses to grow."

    In turn, the Business Software Alliance and the Computer Systems Policy Project said they would not support legislation that seeks to bolster the rights of users of digital copyrighted material, which the recording industry has said is unnecessary.

    Several consumer groups and some technology companies, including Intel and Gateway, have supported legislation proposed by Representative Rick Boucher, Democrat of Virginia, that seeks to clarify the rights of copyright users in a digital age.
    • by pavera ( 320634 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:50PM (#5084344) Homepage Journal
      Furthermore,
      an article on MSNBC earlier today about the same issue stated that the technology industry as part of this agreement stated that they would do everything in their power to impliment DRM anyway, to appease the RIAA and their "need" for legislation. Basically the tech industry said "we'll do what you want without legislation, and we'll stop lobbying for legislation that would hurt you". We got royally screwed in this one boys and girls.
  • by dmiller ( 581 ) <djm@mindro[ ]rg ['t.o' in gap]> on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:35PM (#5084261) Homepage
    They may not purse legally mandated DRM, but you can bet that they will pursue de-facto DRM through hardware, BIOS and operating system vendors.
  • by poot_rootbeer ( 188613 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:36PM (#5084270)

    What the RIAA is trying to do by keeping DRM mandates out of the hands of legislators is avoid a situation where they are forced to give consumers MORE rights. Fritz Hollings doesn't have as much influence as he used to now that Republicans have control of the Senate again. Someone who 'gets it', like Rick Boucher, could make them very unhappy. They'd rather not fight a battle in Congress if there's a good chance that they wouldn't win.
  • by TheWizardTim ( 599546 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:38PM (#5084279) Journal
    Does anyone else feel that this is just a non aggression treaty, like the one between Germany and Russia, and both sides are holding off the government until they come up with the killer technology to screw the other side, and us as well?

    Maybe it's just me.
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:43PM (#5084310)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by Mac Degger ( 576336 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @07:06PM (#5084446) Journal
      Hold on there: you're talking about the music industry, right? That one industry where 'payola' still officially exists? 'Pay for play' and all that? Where budding 'artists' (if you can call most of the crap out there that) are held captive when they make a million selling record (the bills actually put them into debt)? And they are now good guys?

      WTF?

      And what is the difference between the RIAA and the MPAA? They are so closely tied that there isn't really a distinction. Also, look at the organisations themselves...they have mucho much in common. Plus they want the same thing...the MPAA not being in the agreement is just a good tactic...it leaves the free to still lobby for DRM. And seeing as it has more money than the RIAA (as a whole), that was a very smart choice.

      And as for a rating system...uhh, a rating system is a good thing, if it helps parents see what their kiddies are listening to/watching (no susbstitute to actually seeing and hearing themselves, but even so). Mandated and inflexible because it's law, that's a bad thing (some 14 year olds are older than most 40 year olds will ever be) , but a rating system 'pur sang' is not a bad thing which takes away end user rights.
    • Good point. Jack Valenti has always been worse than Hilary Rosen, and has been making life miserable for the consumer ever since the Betamax case, when he compared home video technology to the Boston Strangler. Obviously the MPAA's rating system has been proven to be absurd many times over. Keep in mind, however, that in today's marketplace many of the largest media companies have huge investments in *both* recordings and movies. I'm suspicious at how this will actually play out; remember, the RIAA is only a trade group and there's nothing to prevent Disney (which owns Virgin Records, does it not?) or Time-Warner (which produces recordings as well) from continuing to pursue legislation on their own.
    • You know, Mr. Valenti, you may well be right. But allow me to be the first to say that your bias in favor of billions of dollars is as odious to the objective viewer as our "unreasonable" bias towards freedom. However, a bias towards freedom for all is, in all likelihood, better than a bias towards wealth for a few. If you can think of no way for you guys to get richer without infringing upon our rights, without breaking laws, don't you think it's time to start thinking harder? Or start thinking about what you're going to do with all that money when you die? Or what you're going to sleep on when it runs out? After all, how do you sleep at night?
    • by Dasein ( 6110 ) <tedc AT codebig DOT com> on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @07:45PM (#5084676) Homepage Journal
      Give the group a break, people. It's made some mistakes. It's made presumptions about Napster, etc...

      Let's see, they've:
      • Sued Napster into oblivion
      • Deprived Napster(and its shareholders) a chance to compete in the marketplace
      • Accused me (and probably you) of being a criminal
      • Settle lawsuits that accused them of price fixing
      • Given so little back to their artists that it's almost impossible to survive in the business
      • Paid radio station to play only what they want me to hear

      Damn! I'm glad they're not really evil. As my mamma used to say, "Evil is as evil does."

      Check out some good independent music:

      Henry Rollins [21361.com]
      Ani Difranco [righteousbabe.com]
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:47PM (#5084328)

    For the technology industry's end of this bargain with the devil, the participants agreed to stop lobbying for a bill protecting consumers' fair use rights to digital media.

    The technology companies were the major lobbying force behind the bills to protect consumers' fair use rights. If these corporations aren't going to stand up for our rights, then we'd better do so for ourselves. And the time to do so is right now, before coming DRM technologies erode the rights we have left.

    Can you think of a better excuse to write your Congresscritter and tell him or her to support the Boucher bill? If our fair use rights aren't explicitly protected, then they'll slowly disappear as future generations of technology will have more and more restrictions on how you can use the content you paid for. Write to your Congressperson now and let them know you are concerned about this issue!

  • AP Story on the MPAA (Score:5, Informative)

    by pgrote ( 68235 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @06:54PM (#5084375) Homepage
    Here is a story that explains a little more behind the MPAA's decision:

    MPAA Info [yahoo.com]
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @07:00PM (#5084400)
    RIAA doesn't need goverment mandated DRM because they can mandate it themselves together with computer manufacturers.

    You can be sure that next audiodisc format will have VERY strong enpcryption and there won't be any players/soundcards which will provide standard SPDIF out while playing a new format.
  • Instead of writing a post complaining that two groups are colluding to not pay off politicians and subverting your fair use rights, go join the EFF and ask them to push this bill!

    We do not need corporate help to get our rights set down in law! The EFF is working to be our voice! Take the time to donate some money and get this done!
  • DRM (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Evil Adrian ( 253301 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @07:03PM (#5084422) Homepage
    I understand why people are upset about DRM, you should be able to mp3 your own songs, yadda yadda yadda.

    But like, c'mon, piracy is rampant. Surely, those of you that *aren't* petty thieves have to understand that some sort of management is necessary? People spend time and money to create software, music, movies, etc., and people go and steal it because they believe

    a) they are entitled to it
    b) they believe industy X is overcharging

    Argument (a) is stupid, nobody is entitled to a product. Argument (b) is also stupid. There is plenty of free music and software available on the internet that isn't illegal. If you're truly upset about overcharging, then use free software. The fact that you steal (in addition to being morally repugnant) is that it just tells the companies you are stealing from that they have a product you want, and the fact that you won't pay them for it forces them to clamp down on it.

    Furthermore, why won't any of the thieves that are reading this (and I know some of you are) go to Best Buy and steal a copy of Photoshop or the new Eminem CD?
    • Re:DRM (Score:5, Funny)

      by Eric Smith ( 4379 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @07:16PM (#5084508) Homepage Journal
      I understand why people are upset about the proposed legal mandate for speed governors on automobiles, you should be able to drive as fast as you want on your private driveway, yadda yadda yadda.

      But like, c'mon, speeding on public highways is rampant. Surely, those of you that *aren't* scofflaws have to understand that some sort of management is necessary? People speed because the believe

      a) they are entitled to
      b) they believe the speed limits are too low.

      Argument (a) is stupid, nobody is entitled ot break the law. Argument (b) is also stupid. There are plenty of freeways available that have reasonably high speed limits. If you're truly upset about speed limits, then use private roads. The fact that you speed (in addition to being morally repugnant) is that it just tells the legislators that you are a criminal, and the fact that you won't pay attention to the limit forces them to clamp down on it.

      Furthermore, why won't any of the scofflaws that are reading this (and I know some of you are) go out in your car and run some red lights and hit some pedestrians?

      • It is too easy to get your driver's license. That is evidenced by the sheer ineptitude of so many licensed drivers currently on the road driving aggressively, cutting people off, tailgating, speeding through residential areas, street racing, etc. etc.

        So, I don't see what the problem is with a mandated speed governor either. Most people don't race their cars, so they don't need to go faster than whatever limit is posted. And, unlike DRM, people actually DIE when traffic laws are violated.
        • youre an idiot. aside from street racing(who would remove governors anyway) a speed governor would do nothing to stop any of your listed violaions.
      • Please mod parent up. Perfectly said...

        This should have +5 insigtful AND +5 funny :)

      • Re:DRM (Score:3, Interesting)

        by ewhac ( 5844 )

        I know the intention was satire, but I find it interesting that you chose to contrast speeding with unsanctioned copying, two offenses which have roughly equal detriment to society -- that is to say, virtually none at all.

        However, some futher contrast is also useful to consider:

        Impact on Society of Speeding:

        • Increased fuel usage,
        • Slight increase of hazard to other drivers, depending on circumstances,
        • Slight increase of hazard to driver and his/her vehicle, depending on circumstances.

        Impact on Society of Unsanctioned Copying:

        • Increased bandwidth usage,
        • Immeasurably small impact to copyright holder's revenue stream, depending on circumstances,
        • Slight decrease of available bandwidth to other network users, depending on circumstances,
        • Slight increase of hazard to user's computer (viruses, etc.), depending on circumstances.

        Penalties for Speeding:

        • Fine ranging from $50-500, depending on jurisdiction,
        • "Points" assessed against driving license,
        • In especially egregious cases, suspension or revocation of driving license.

        Penalties for Unsanctioned Copying:

        • $500,000 fine.
        • 5 years in prison.
        • Loss of right to vote.
        • Loss of right to use computers.
        • In especially egregious cases... Well, really, what does it matter after all that?

        Now someone tell me that's a balanced policy.

        Schwab

    • Re:DRM (Score:4, Informative)

      by Basilius ( 184226 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @07:31PM (#5084586)
      They've got you hoodwinked, don't they?

      It's not theft. It's a copyright violation.

      And there's a large legal difference between the two.

      From dictionary.com:

      theft

      \Theft\, n. [OE. thefte, AS. [thorn]i['e]f[eth]e, [thorn][=y]f[eth]e, [thorn]e['o]f[eth]e. See Thief.] 1. (Law) The act of stealing; specifically, the felonious taking and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same; larceny.

      Note: To constitute theft there must be a taking without the owner's consent, and it must be unlawful or felonious; every part of the property stolen must be removed, however slightly, from its former position; and it must be, at least momentarily, in the complete possession of the thief. See Larceny, and the Note under Robbery.
      • By copying the contents of the CD which you did not pay for, you are depriving the rightful owner of the due payment his due payment. So, if you want to mince words, fine, it's copyright violation, but I still view it as theft.

        And, no matter how you look at it, it's immoral.
        • Re:DRM (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Basilius ( 184226 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @07:43PM (#5084665)
          And it's a huge leap to believe that any significant percentage of people engaging in the copyright violations you refer to as theft would even think about physically stealing a copy of Photoshop from a store.

          It's not legal, but don't presume to say it's immoral to break a copyright law that has been modified and extended for no apparent reason other than maintaining a particular way of doing business.

          Personally, I feel some of the business practices of the companies whose copyrights are being broken are far more "immoral" than the copyright violation being discussed.

    • What? They said "Piracy is Theft" and you bought it?

      They collect on blank media, even if it's not used for bootlegging... that is theft.
      Nobody is entitled to a product? Who cares about "entitlement": no-body who bootlegs software or music is using "we're entitled" as a defence. Why would they? It's stupid.
      Overcharging? I dunno... all I know is photoshop is way out of my budget, and yet I could get a copy for free, hurting no-one.
      Would I be comfortable with that? Sure. Can't afford it... but hey there it is for free, and no-one is down any revenue.
      Your last question is bogus, for reasons you know well. I don't know why you weren't modded as a troll.
      The **AA has yet to show any independently, indisputable figures, that show that bootlegging has cost them anything much.

      Hell, I can bootleg music from the radio, as people've been doing for decades. Why don't you burn all the people who've done that at your stake, too, while you're at it.

      Fundementalist.
    • I understand why people are upset about DRM, you should be able to mp3 your own songs, yadda yadda yadda.

      But like, c'mon, piracy is rampant. Surely, those of you that *aren't* petty thieves have to understand that some sort of management is necessary?


      I understand why people are upset about surgicly impanting tracking devices in the entire population, it's a violation of your rights, yadda yadda yadda.

      But like, c'mon, crime is rampant. Surely, those of you that *aren't* petty criminals have to understand that some sort of management is necessary?

      Same exact argument.

      Copyright violation occurs. We have already have laws against it. Some people have the oppinion that current copyright law is inadaquate. The only suggestion those people can come up with is DRM and DRM laws. That does NOT imply their proposals are necessary, good, right, legal, or even constitutitonal.

      -
    • Re:DRM (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Dirtside ( 91468 )
      If you have a CD, and I copy that CD, now we both have copies of that CD.

      If you have a car and I take the car, now you no longer have the car.

      Do you understand, at least, the material difference between stealing and copying? The idea that copying can be equivalent to theft is rooted in the idea of information scarcity -- but information can be endlessly, perfectly replicated at essentially zero cost. Keep that in mind when you're jumping... to conclusions.
  • Not the whole story (Score:4, Informative)

    by margaret ( 79092 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @07:07PM (#5084457)
    The NYT articles leaves out some important facts.

    From this story [ap.org]: "Under the agreement, technology lobbyists will argue that record companies should be permitted to use hacker-style tactics to disrupt Internet downloads of pirated music and movies."

    Great.
  • by Glindonna ( 636715 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @07:25PM (#5084556)
    Will you idiots wake the fuck up! This is what the BSA has agreed to do for the RIAA:

    1) Endorse hacking of computers! Yes the BSA (Microsoft, Apple, DELL, HP and Intel) will lobby congress to allow the RIAA to hack P2P networks, so long as the RIAA is "careful" about it!
    2) BSA will "aggressively pursue digital pirates" on behalf of the RIAA. Now you've got Hollywood AND Silicon Valley working together to rifle through your shit!
    3) The BSA will help the RIAA defeat any attempt to elucidate the fair use rights of consumers. That's right Hollywood and Silicon Valley will work together to make sure your rights are never spelled out by congress.

    All of this in exchange for letting a law drop that was going to be voted down anyway! The RIAA just fucked Silicon Valley, your fair use rights and computer users everywhere in one swoop! This is GREAT news! Idiots.

    This deal is a catastrophe and represents a complete cluster-fucking of America by corporate shills; you will pay dearly for it in lost freedom.

    This is the worst job I've ever seen Slashdot's editors do. God damn you for spinning this as a win.

    Glin
  • by ewhac ( 5844 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @07:30PM (#5084585) Homepage Journal

    It seems the RIAA and/or BSA have learned to troll Slashdot, since the headline is grievously misleading.

    This, "landmark agreement," simply states that BSA and RIAA will lobby against all new legislation on digital policy. Under this "balanced" approach, not only would Senator "Fritz" Hollings' (D-S.C.) bill for mandatory Digital Restrictions Mechanisms get the kibosh, so also would Reps. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif) and Rick Boucher (D-VA) initiative to make exercising Fair Use rights an affirmative defense against DMCA prosecution.

    The most telling quote was from BSA head Robert Holleyman, who described the DMCA as, "generally working as it was intended."

    This "compromise" measure is nothing of the sort, as it merely seeks to affirm the status quo, doing nothing to redress the harm done and still being done by the DMCA and the lesser-known NET Act.

    I also note -- with piqued curiosity -- how the Associated Press report on this story has had significant changes made in the last few hours. The first version I read [yahoo.com] contained Holleyman's telling DMCA quote and mentioned the effects on Lofgren's and Boucher's bills. The latest version [yahoo.com] has a considerably different slant, soft-pedaling the announcement and eliding Holleyman's quote.

    So the newswires aren't our friends, either.

    Schwab

  • by girth ( 40643 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @07:35PM (#5084613)
    I forget, which side represented the consumer? Was it the RIAA or Microsoft?
  • It's a PR ploy. Legislation is only one route to their goal. It picked up too much flack, so I suppose they just readjusted their deals with tech vendors.

    The article says:

    "They said they planned to convene a meeting of senior executives to discuss technical solutions to combat the illegal copying of digital material."

    i.e. they took the process underground.

    This is the way decisions get made. If you want music to be free, don't give your money to organizations that make decisions like this.
  • From the RIAA's perspective, there's no point in having the govt. force DRM down the computer industries throat. They make their money selling cds. If DRM is around, they may offer music for sale on the internet, which may or may not increase their bottom line. If DRM doesn't catch on, they'll still keep selling cds, and stick to the "old business model", ignoring the internet. It's not worth their lobbying money to fight this battle, especially when the MPAA has a much bigger interest in the issue anyway.
  • I'm pretty sure the words "this week" got left off of that title.

  • We don't need to fight for mandated DRM. It's already on order.
  • Jack Valenti said his organization still believed that "no reasonable alternative course of action should be eliminated from consideration."

    Because the Internet is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone. Right Jack?

    I don't know why anyone bothers to listen to this dipshit when he says something about the implications of some technology. Few prognostications have ever been as utterly wrong as his was. And that he insists that he's been proven correct is just stupid.

  • NPR (Score:5, Informative)

    by nhavar ( 115351 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @09:49PM (#5085264) Homepage
    NPR reported this on my way to work this morning. The gist of the conversation is "Hey we won't demand hardware copy protection if you hardware makers help us strip or block every bit of consumer rights legislation that comes through". The goal is that RIAA stops lobbying for mandatory hardware controls and the hardware groups join to lobby against any possible consumer bill of rights. Great "trade".

    I hope we can buy a few senators back some day and have groups like the RIAA permanently banned from doing that special kind of business they do. They should have just stuck to certifying gold records.
  • by jeffasselin ( 566598 ) <cormacolinde@gmail. c o m> on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @10:57PM (#5085565) Journal
    Look at the sides here and read between the lines: In the left corner, the BSA: the evil organisation which uses tactics that remind me of mafia racketeering to extract mounds of cash from honest people by forcing them to either pay lots for an audit which could, if errors are found, force them to pay even more, or pay even more upfront to save themselves? The organisation who act like they were the police and believe everyone out there is out to steal from their members? In the right side, the RIAA: the evil organisation who'd like nothing less than to see the advent of big brother, with all of us forced to listen to whatever they want us to listen, and to pay for every second we're listening to it. I can imagine all of us chained to a "music meter" that calculates exactly what we owe them, and then a zoom to the RIAA headquarters, with artists chained to their desk to produce "music", virtually slaves to the most powerful organisation in the world, and I know that's Rosen's dream and everyone else's nightmare. In the middle, as referees: the Lawyers, who stand to profit anyway this goes. The result: Evil wins, whatever happens. Whichever side gets the best of the argument won't much matter in the end. But I suspect it will go like that: The computer industry will spontaneously implement DRM methods across the board, just like the RIAA said, but by themselves without any rules or restrictions set by the government, and fair use will die. This profits the BSA, because it is also related to the patenting of code, and the destruction of open source. We'll be doubly screwed. I'd be curious to know exactly which companies refused to get in this. I suspect Apple was one of them. Steve Jobs, you're our only hope!

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