New Amazon Patents on Content Personalization 88
theodp writes "Defending its decision to concoct recommendations to steer customers to buy items at Amazon's new Apparel Store, a spokeswoman said Amazon "felt it would be evident to people that since the store was so new, we wouldn't have the transaction history to create database similarities." But in this just-published patent applicaton, Amazon earlier told the USPTO it's able to use product viewing histories to determine the similarity or relatedness between products for which little or no purchase history data exists. So which claim should you believe?"
So which claim should you believe? (Score:1)
Which to believe, indeed (Score:2)
I think you're mistaken (Score:5, Insightful)
In a new store such as Amazon's Apparal section, they don't have the transaction history OR the product viewing history, so they can't accurately recommend products to viewers.
I agreee that maybe they shouldn't be recommending products at all if they have no basis for their recommendations, but their patent doesn't conflict with their policy on Amazon Apparals. Basically, their patent is to allow them to recommend products to customers who haven't BOUGHT anything, but have just browsed through the store enough.
Re:I think you're mistaken (Score:2, Insightful)
so what happens if you block cookies and/or surf as a guest at a public terminal?
Re:I think you're mistaken (Score:1)
Re:I think you're mistaken (Score:3, Informative)
Here's how it works... they already have your book and CD data, along with everybody else's. When somebody who has bought a Britney Spears album buys Levi's Jeans, it can cross link Britney with Levi's. Anybody else who has bought Britney music in the past is now presumed to like Levi's jeans as a result, until other data comes along to contradict that.
Yeah, the initial predictions will be wildly inaccurate, but quickly they will amass the base data with which to get some close-enough returns.
One little piece of info Amazon had better be quickly figuring out... which users are boys and which are girls.
prior art (Score:2)
Don't be silly. (Score:2)
You're making something out of nothing. How the hell did this get to the front page?
Re:Don't be silly. (Score:1, Interesting)
All marketers believe contrary. Knowledge of your previous buying habits (regardless of where the history data comes from) gives clues as to your personality type, target demographics, and future product decisions. It could even be argued that data gathered about the reading material you've purchased is especially juicy info as it would be a more "direct line" on your personality traits and buying habits.
The patent. (Score:2)
alternatives... (Score:4, Informative)
for those of you who (like me) dislikes amazons use of patents, show it by buying your books elsewhere. two good examples of elsewhere are:
from europe: www.bol.com [bol.com]
from the us: www.barnesandnoble.com [barnesandnoble.com]
time to put your money where your mouth is, of something to that effect...
Re:alternatives... (Score:1, Informative)
Don't you remember when... (Score:2)
I don't worry a whole lot about the corporations jostling for control. Amazon has in many ways been the innovator and gold standard in online commerce; most of its competitors launched as wannabes, which is great. As B&N illustrates, mindlessness is not Amazon's monopoly. It's when a company does go monopoly and anticompetitive (or is on the verge of same) that I recommend walking, as with a certain software company called -- well, if you're using IE to read this, you're not with me.
All that said and done, I think it's great to hunt down smaller sellers that offer specialized selections or benefit a cause you care about, even if the price is not less. Also try to use the Amazon Associates feature to channel some $ to useful groups.
Re:alternatives... (Score:3, Funny)
And for those of you who, like me, love shopping at Amazon.com, but hate patents, please boycott the US Patent Office.
I, for one, refuse to patent anything.
a better alternative is Powells.com (Score:2)
Why you should use their website, of course, is that every book in inventory (and a few that aren't - *cough, cough*), new or used, rare, collectible, is in their online search system. If you live in the area, you can even have them collect your order at one of their stores for pickup, which, when I lived there, I often did.
Oh, yah, if that's not enough to convince you to try them out in person or online, they apparently now have a free shipping deal, as well.
Disclaimer: I don't work for Powell's, but I spent lots of money there, and they were(are) an important customer of my former employer. I selfishly want you to buy from them so they're still around next time I visit!
Re:Canadian alternatives... (Score:1)
There's always Chapters/Indigo [indigo.ca]
For an independent bookseller, check out McNally Robinson [mcnallyrobinson.com]
new slogan... (Score:4, Funny)
All Your Content Are Belong to Us ... (Score:1)
See
I'd remove the damned thing, but it uses the same monitor technology as the ones used in North Korean nuclear facilities. I don't want my house bombed as a result.
clothes != books (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:clothes != books (Score:2)
Is this going to be totally stereotype driven? Will they try to sell black turtlenecks to people who scope out the works of Nietzsche, or flower aprons to Martha Stewart readers?
Can you imagine trying to predict a certain wardrobe for THIS audience? (all of whom are likely to be buying Oreilly books)
Sooo... The next time I go there to buy a TCP/IP networking book they'll try to sell me one of those SYN/ACK thinkgeek shirts (yes, I admit it. I think those are kind of stylin') and yet... Geeks have a dominant streak of not following typical social norms. And they are going to try to predict a wardrobe? Color me incredulous.
Re:clothes != books (Score:1, Informative)
If you consistently buy or investigate books that place you into an established target demographic profile, it's a basic tennent of marketing that you're demographic profile will not change just because you are buying something else. The profile decribes you and your household's buying persona.
Simplified Example:
Buyer A consistently investigates and puchases $75 coffee table books.
Buyer A also buys books on child-rearing and parenting.
Buyer A also purchases books on behavioral psychology.
That's more than enough information to build a basic profile about Buyer A's purchasing patterns that includes their household income level, education level, disposable income, median age, etc.
Once you have a basic profile about Buyer A, you can correlate that into any market which has developed any sort of buyer demographics, and the demographic profiles compiled by the apparel industry are some of the most detailed on the planet.
Minor spelling flame - "Tennent" (Score:2)
A "tenant" is someone who holds land, typically a renter.
You probably meant "tenet" [reference.com], which is
"An opinion, doctrine, or principle held as being true by a person or especially by an organization".
Note that a tenet may be held by a ranter....
Yes, you can predict from books & cds to cloth (Score:4, Insightful)
Did you buy P.Diddy's CD? Maybe I'll try to sell you something from his line of clothes.
Did you buy a book about basketball? Some red Michael Jordan Boxer shorts and some clean socks.
Did you buy childrens books, toys or CDs? It's Ladybug bug boots for you.
Have you bought anything about Linux? Clean underwear.
Does it matter if they made the recommendations up or not? No. When I ask the waitress for a recommendation for the fish or the steak, I get upset when she asks me for a detailed description of my tastes.
Amazon is a business. If it helps to tell the truth to the patent office. They will. If it helps to shade the truth. That's what the lawyers are for. Same on the PR side.
Molehill!
Re:Yes, you can predict from books & cds to cl (Score:5, Funny)
Assless Leather Chaps
Re:Yes, you can predict from books & cds to cl (Score:2)
Errr, no.
They are trying to reccomend things you are likely to buy.
It's no use reccomenting something the customer needs if he's not going to buy it.
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You don't even need to predict (Score:1)
"You don't know what you're looking for? Well you should try this!" - repeat to next 100 customers.
Re:Yes, you can predict from books & cds to cl (Score:1)
Did you buy some dirty socks? How about an Eminem CD?
"People who wear clothes buy..." (Score:5, Funny)
Re:"People who wear clothes buy..." (Score:2, Funny)
An Amazon line like "People who eat fried bananas while skating on sundays buy..." would have been more convincing.
Re:"People who wear clothes buy..." (Score:1)
I get:
"People who wear clothes also shop for:
Clean Underwear at Amazon's Target Store
Ladybug Rain Boots from Amazon's Nordstrom's Store
Pet Socks from Amazon's Urban Outfitters Store
Puppy Footed One-Pieces for Newborns at Amazon's Old Navy Store"
While I do have an interest in clean underwear, the rest don't really seem appropriate for a mid-20's single guy who's into Science Fiction books.
Which brings up an interesting point... (Score:1)
I burst out laughing... (Score:2)
It's nice to be with the "in" crowd. The post-Neaderthal crowd. In one way anyhow.
Now which books would you buy to trigger the "People who don't wear clothes..." link? I guess Amazon wouldn't give a damn about them because they're not going to buy anything.
Re:I burst out laughing... (Score:2)
Now which books would you buy to trigger the "People who don't wear clothes..." link? I guess Amazon wouldn't give a damn about them because they're not going to buy anything.
Hmm, maybe this one [amazon.com]? As you may expect, viewing that page doesn't bring up any apparel recommendations. :)
Shayne
Prior Art? Sounds just like (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Prior Art? Sounds just like (Score:3, Insightful)
Kill, kill. Kill, kill, kill the marketers.
Re:Prior Art? Sounds just like (Score:2)
Kill, kill. Kill, kill, kill the marketers.
In my experience, it is really sales we want to get, not marketing. Marketing tries to make us look good!
(But sales makes the money. Sigh.)
Re:Prior Art? Sounds just like (Score:2)
Kill, kill. Kill, kill, kill the marketers.
Customers who want to kill people also bought:
The Anarchist Cookbook [amazon.com] -- by William Powell, Peter Bergman (Introduction); Paperback Buy new: $29.96
Explosives [amazon.com] -- by Josef Kohler, et al; Paperback Buy new: $145.00 -- Used & new from: $120.29
M1 Carbine [survival.com.mx] IAI Standard Grade New USGI stock (upper hand guard is perforated steel, allowing better cooling). Comes with two 10 round "politically correct Democrat approved" mags, two 15 round mags, the NRA booklet on the US 30 CARBINE and a military manual, all in a foam lined hard case. $675
IAI Carbine Upgrade Comes equipped as above, with the addition of the following: NEW (complete) USGI M2 stock, all unissued USGI parts: M2 bolt, M2 slide, M2 trigger housing, M2 sear, M2 mag catch, two "still-in-the-wrapper" USGI 15 round mags, two evil and nasty 30 round mags and the US Military Armorers Manual $775
Customers who wear clothes also shop for:
Clean Underwear [amazon.com] from Amazon's Target Store
Ladybug Rain Boots [amazon.com] from Amazon's Nordstrom Store
Pet Socks [amazon.com] from Amazon's Urban Outfitters Store
-
'Honest Business Practices by Microsoft'... (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:only the smell of the cesspool is eXPosed (Score:2)
You should have saved Greenspan for last -- that was the best bit IMO.
So which claim should you believe? (Score:2, Insightful)
Does any of this mean that as a brick and mortar (Score:3, Interesting)
Man, am *I* going to clean up. Every salesman in the universe who's even vaguely doing their job is going to owe me a royalty.
Hell, I might even be able to afford paying the royalty on the P&B sandwich I have for lunch now.
KFG
Re:Does any of this mean that as a brick and morta (Score:2)
In absence of a product purchase, one can ONLY use viewing habbits to assist in related products. The other alternative is to manually setup related products based on some common attribute (author, series, genre).
There is nothing innovative here, they just looked to the brick n mortar as an example. I know of several shopping carts that have been doing this for over 5 years now (since Amazon first introduced Recommended Products based on purchases).
Stupid USPTO!
Re:Does any of this mean that as a brick and morta (Score:1)
Re:Does any of this mean that as a brick and morta (Score:2)
With the Internet, you can put these two items beside each other, were as in the store, you would have two physical locations.
Also, there might have been some studies done indicating that people looking for printing paper go to where the computers are, rather then where the stationary is.
Skid Marks! (Score:2)
"... So which claim should you believe?"
Well, its been clear to me that Amazon has for some time practiced some irritating sales techniques. I mean how many times to I have to wait for some stupid Harry Potter Soshkele [geek.com] when I'm tring to buy something entirely unrelated, such as Vincent Flander's [deanpeters.com] latest tombe?
So to hear a spokeswoman try to play semantic games (for those of you outside of D.C., I believe it's called lying) with lame comments such as - "Perhaps in light of the mini-controversy, instead of saying that customers "also bought" the recommended clothing-store items, Amazon.com now says that the other customers "also wear" the recommended items." - is no surprise.
What I would be interested in is someone enumerating in simple bullet pionts all of Amazon's "irritating" sales gimmicks.
Now pardon me as I change my shorts
Hmm. So does Amazon.com employ legions of inspectors to check the cleanliness of its customers' underwear?
What I believe (Score:3, Insightful)
So which claim should you believe?
It doesn't take a 100% sample to predict the direction a population will take.
Solution? Don't buy at Amazon (Score:4, Informative)
While Amazon does everything in their power to relieve you of choice, the Tattered Cover actually stands up for your rights [freeexpression.org].
Make Bezo get a real job.
Re:Solution? Don't buy at Amazon (Score:2)
So provide some proof that amazon is doing "everything in their power to relieve you of choice".
So, lets see some proof!
Re:Solution? Don't buy at Amazon (Score:2)
And where's the link that shows Amazon sticking up for our privacy? First I've heard of it.
My 2 centimes (Score:2)
Perhaps it works on others, but in clothing, particularly, fashion is in the detail.
Many of Amazon's recent patent applications do not appear to be efforts to lock anyone out of using them or efforts to crush smaller e-businesses, like Pan-IP does, but to ensure no-one, like Pan-IP, can come to them later and say, "Ahem, we have a patent for that, pay us $,$$$,$$$,$$$" Amazon hasn't been enforcing their patents, in case anyone has paid attention.
Any reason why this would be a BAD thing? (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure, we all hate ads. But when you're actually in the market to buy stuff, wouldn't you rather have relevant ads?
Instead of bitching about the mendacity (they're a .com!) the chilling implications for privacy (oh no, I bought Dianne Wynn Jones, J.K. Rowling'll kick my arse!) or the fucked up patent system (tell your elected representative, we already know), could we not rub our collective brain cells together and try and come up with ways to make this work for our benefit?
For example, more optional steering. Instead of just dumb feeding of ads, why not use the interactivety for mutual benefit? What if there were a little button beside each ad, saying "Not interested" (you don't need an "interested", that's the clickthrough). That way you could at least tell them about ads that actively piss you off (X10?) so that they're not just burning bandwidth. Anyone got any other ideas?
Amazon: Public Servant :-\ (Score:2, Funny)
er..
Amazon strange things (Score:1)
In other news... (Score:3, Funny)
Did anyone read (some of) the patent? (Score:1)
8. The system as in claim 1, wherein the client component is a browser plug-in.
WTF is that all about?!
TBH I really don't see any problem here, anyway.
If the system gets it wrong, never mind ignore it (we all ignore banner ads don't we?). If it gets it right, woo you've seen something else you want!
Reading the original article again, I still can't see the problem. Amazon don't have transaction history to base reccomendations on, so they'll use viewing history instead, errr and ?
Re:Did anyone read (some of) the patent? (Score:2)
Exactly. I'm don't think of myself as particularly fick, and quite often pop to the USPTO website whenever a dubious patent generates interest, and you see language like this all the time.
I have absolutely no idea what that means. If I were a lawyer having to defend funny patents like this i'd demand that someone explain to an expert jury exactly what it was they meant.
And when it turns out that they can't, the judge can throw the case out of court and get on with something more important.
Oh come on (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Oh come on (Score:1)
New category entirely (Score:1)
Using this method, Amazon will never recommend a brand-new product to anybody, because no one has looked at it yet. In other words, Amazon might recommend clothes to me (w/o me ever having looked at them)based on my buying habits, once a sufficient number of people have bought items I've bought AND bought clothes.
Right now, Amazon can't mine the database for recommendations, because there is scarcely a database to mine.
Looks fine to me. (Score:1)
Wow. (Score:1)
> 5. The method of claim 1, wherein degrees of relatedness are based upon scores that take into account browsing history data for a plurality of users.
I find it funny that they can patent relevancy rankings. Hey, didn't google already do that? They DID? Oops.
All of the Above (Score:2)
Move Along... Next Story, please...
Thank You!
This is stupid. (Score:3, Insightful)
Customers who wear clothes... (Score:2)
I said something like :
<quote>I prefer not to wear clothes, so you're clearly not using any knowledge about me to generate this. Furthermore, what would ever make you think that even someone wanting to wear clothes would favor a product like "ladybug rain boots", or "pet socks" . (Indeed, the very name "ladybug rain boots" makes me a bit queasy.)
Furthermore, you may be aiming at the wrong audience entirely. After all, isn't one of the advertized plusses of internet shopping being able to do it in your underwear (clean or not)? </quote>
I havent done more than verify that it exists, but amazon light [kokogiak.com] may be a good alternative.
Re:Customers who wear clothes... (Score:2)
I also asked if they had spyware in my computer using my quickcam to see if I was wearing clothes.
And why is this patent not obvious?
How many people DID NOT shop at Amazon this Year? (Score:2)
However, this is the first year I did not spend my Holiday dollars at Amazon. Here are my reasons.
* Amazon is moving towards a retail pricing model. No more good deals.
* Consumer Electronics are cheaper at Best Buy / Comp USA sales (even with tax).
* Amazon's customer recommended product matcher is wildly innaccurate (at least for me).
This year I was shopping for a 4 MegaPixel Digital camera, photo printer, books, and toys. I added the items I wanted to "My Wish List" hoping it would trigger the Amazon to take action. Do you think the Amazon AI (Artificial Intelligence) was smart enought to email me a coupon, or possibly even propose a packages, e.g. (Camera, + Media + Accessories + Printer). Nope, instead Amazon gave me a "Gold Box" and filled it unrelated junk like "Steak Knives" and "Foot Massagers".
Meanwhile, all my holiday shopping dollars went to local brick and mortar shops. I predict that Amazons holiday sales figures are going to be disappointing. I tried to email Bezos and make suggestions, but his auto responder just kept emailing back. I wonder if he reads slashdot?
Anyway, I was just curious how many that usually shopped at Amazon went elsewhere this year and your reasons for doing do.
If Amazon doesn't figure out a new model, all they may have in the end is patent royalty revenue. Note to the Computer Industry and Jeff Bezos, "Stop Litigating and Start Innovating"!
This explains so much... (Score:4, Funny)
People who bought The Selfish Gene also bought:
1. Clean Underwear from Target.
No, I am not kidding.
This isn't a new idea (Score:1)
The idea of click-stream based recommendations was under discussion in the collaborative filtering field at least three years ago (if not longer). I fail to see how Amazon can make this application fly past claims of prior art.
BOTH (Score:2, Insightful)
Ok, that makes sense
Both statements can be true. Amazon.com uses VIEWING information, and since you haven't viewed any clothes, they can't give you good recomendations. But once you look at maybe 10 articles of clothing you like, it will be able to make good recomendations for other clothes. At this point, you still have no PURCHASE history.
Prior art available for certain aspects (Score:2)
No Conflict (Score:1)
Last Post! (Score:1)
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