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Kroger Testing Fingerprint Payment System 423

Posted by timothy from the keep-them-secret-keep-them-safe dept.
MachineShedFred writes "CNN is reporting that The Kroger Company is testing the use of fingerprinting as means for payment at grocery stores. The article says that it has been well received by both college students and seniors. I, for one would love to see this rolled out to all of Kroger's stores, which include Fred Meyer, Ralph's, QFC, Fry's Marketplace (not the electronics stores), and others; however I'm sure some /.-ers will have privacy concerns as well as law enforcement cooperation issues..."
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Kroger Testing Fingerprint Payment System More

Kroger Testing Fingerprint Payment System

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  • Fraud? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Mikeytsi ( 186271 )
    What about how trivial it is to fake a fingerprint? I'd think that would be a pretty big concern.

    • Re:Fraud? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by ceejayoz ( 567949 )
      It's far easier to fake a check or counterfeit money, but people seem to accept them as valid payment methods.

      Heck, to fake a fingerprint you a) need to know the person has an account at that store and then b) get a mold (with gelatin) of their finger.
    • If I remember correctly, don't I need a Gummi Bear to fake a fingerprint?.......damn, never one around when I need one...
    • Unless they didn't do any research, I'm sure that they're using a PIN along with the fingerprint. The fingerprint alone isn't sufficient. It's not any easier to copy your fingerprint and enter your PIN than to copy the magnetic strip of your ATM card and enter your PIN...

      If it really is just fingerprints criminals shall rejoice.

    • Re:Fraud? (Score:2, Informative)

      by jdh-22 ( 636684 )
      Here is a good article from Bruce Schneier [counterpane.com] that describes how Biometrics can be easily fooled [counterpane.com], $10 worth of household supplies. Just go read the article.
  • When I'm buying rubbers, and I get 'the look' from the cashier, she gets a finger...

    no print, tho.

    fp?

  • Oh great we won't even need the apocalyptic mark of the beast to be tracked, they'll just need our fingerprints.

    • As funny as that is.. referring to the mark of the beast as a chip is simply a technophobic misinterpretation of the Bible.

      Hint: hand and forhead reference is a reference to the original giving of the law of Moses.

  • Oh great (Score:3, Insightful)

    by st0rmshad0w ( 412661 ) on Thursday December 26, 2002 @03:03PM (#4961719)
    This does sound ripe for all sorts of shady things.

    I'm beginning to wonder if I'll live to see the day when using actual cash is against the law.

  • huh, what? (Score:3, Funny)

    by sweeney37 ( 325921 ) <.mikesweeney. .at. .gmail.com.> on Thursday December 26, 2002 @03:04PM (#4961720) Homepage Journal
    college kids + midnight kroger trips + fingerprinting = easier drug busts!

    Mike

  • Now personal privacy concerns will include painting all my door handles with matte paint.

  • Not to mention what happens if (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Choco-man ( 256940 ) on Thursday December 26, 2002 @03:05PM (#4961734)
    You cut or burn your fingers.

    It's well hashed out how easy it to to fool fingerprinting biometrics, so let's not have at that again. It's a neat concept, but flawed system. To easy to fool and not bulletproof enough to allow for every day accidents that happen in the kitchen (heaven help me if i cut my finger cutting veggies AND burn it on the stove..)

    • There are alternatives (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Night Goat ( 18437 ) on Thursday December 26, 2002 @03:14PM (#4961822) Homepage Journal
      I imagine they will have alternate forms of payment, to prevent themselves from being hit with an "Americans with Disabilities Act" lawsuit. People without arms or hands would be rightly able to sue the grocery store. I don't see credit card readers or checks being refused in the future.
      • And people without arms are going to reach for their wallet with what, exactly?

        Or do they expect the cashier to grope about their erogenous zone to find it...
    • It's well hashed out how easy it to to fool fingerprinting biometrics, so let's not have at that again. It's a neat concept, but flawed system. To easy to fool and not bulletproof enough
      That's why it'll never be a viable consumer product. However, Kroger is able to control both the biometric hardware and methods of bypassing the hardware, so it then becomes more viable in that atmosphere. It also allows them to become their own check verification clearinghouse, so no more outsourcing fraud prevention.

      If Kroger can cut down on payment fraud while also making it easier to get in and out of the store, everyone wins (assuming you aren't paranoid about them having your fingerprint biometric). A perfect solution would be nice but they'd be happy with just something better than what they currently have.
      • making it easier to get in and out of the store

        they could start by staffing the fricking checkout lanes. and having baggers who can bag the groceries too. what's the point of having 20 lanes if there's ever only 4-5 of them open? i just don't get it.

        we have the self scan express checkouts at the local kroger/meijer stores. they're not really faster than having someone else scan your groceries. more than half the time something doesn't want to ring up right, and you have to call that non-english speaking person to come over and help, or some kids end up bumping the weight tray and the machine keeps yelling "put the item back in the bag".

        they could also let you pre swipe your card when checking out so as soon as the scanner person presses the end order key, the 10 second card authorization starts.

        they tried a 4-6 p.m. all lanes open at the local kroger (i don't know if they still do that anymore at all), but guess what, most people don't do their weekly shopping at 4-6p.m.. they are most often just getting a few things they forgot for dinner that night and plan to get the weeks stuff later that night or the next. maybe this is when the 14-16 year olds could legally work around here and they had plenty of disposable cheep labor to use.
        • what's the point of having 20 lanes if there's ever only 4-5 of them open?

          Sounds like you've never been to a grocery store the day before Thanksgiving.

          They have 20 lanes for the busiest of times, not for 3 AM when you get the munchies.

        • we have the self scan express checkouts at the local kroger/meijer stores. they're not really faster than having someone else scan your groceries.

          Self scan checkouts aren't there to help you get through the store faster. They're for saving the company money. You're doing the labor for them.

          Less paid labor = less expense = more company profits.


    • Yeah, that would be a critical disaster if you weren't able to use your thumbprint to buy groceries and had to revert to using a piece of plastic or little pieces of green paper.

      I don't see how this system would make things any worse for anyone, even if it doesn't work perfectly.
    • It's well hashed out how easy it to to fool fingerprinting biometrics, so let's not have at that again. It's a neat concept, but flawed system. To easy to fool and not bulletproof enough to allow for every day accidents that happen in the kitchen (heaven help me if i cut my finger cutting veggies AND burn it on the stove..)

      I've read the documentation that you speak of. Yes -- its not invulnerable, but is it better than our current system? I'm sure that its easier to fool a credit card reader with a piece of casette tape than to contruct a gelatin finger. My point is that our current system is far from perfect, as is the alterntive, but maybe its a step in the right direction. Maybe if we used fingerprinting biometrics instead of a signature for credit card purchases it would weed out some of the fraud.

      To address the non-bulletproofness of the fingerprint biometric scanning...why not keep more than one fingerprint on file? What is to stop you from making a quickie phone call to have your fingerprint re-scanned? Its not like sirens will blow and the FBI special operations team will descend from the ceiling when there's an error.

      Just an idea

      --Turkey
    • there's an old joke about crooks who burn their fingerprints off: the cops say "pick up the guy with no fingerprints".

      you have to seriously disfigure your finger to "fool" the system, and you know what? you just redo it with your burned fingers. bigger problem if you have a band-aid on your finger, actually. personally i haven't used my actual safeway card since i got it -- i just enter my phone number.

      i wouldn't have a problem with biometric authentication -- if it were something like my credit card and i wanted to switch off all the other forms of authentication (god knows CC companies don't want you to be able to do that though). but i don't see how it's convenient to give up a token that i can give to my family and not have to deal with flakey slow readers with dirty screens.

      rant mode: screw it, i'll spend a few extra bucks to shop at andronicos or something, guess that's the expense of not getting tagged and cataloged like an animal in the 21st century.

  • Finger Print? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 26, 2002 @03:05PM (#4961736)
    I just got an HP iPaq 5450 with biometric fingerprint reader. I thought the finger print security feature was pretty sweet until I let my brother try it. After 4 finger swipes, it let him through thinking it was me.

    I doubt Kroger will use the same technology, but still cause for concern. Is fingerprint scanning technology really ready for mainstream use?
    • How big's the scanner? On an iPaq, I'd imagine the sensor is quite small, since the iPaq itself is small. I'll wager it doesn't take a full-finger print.

      After 4 finger swipes, it let him through thinking it was me.

      BTW, what the heck are you "swiping" your finger for? That's what you do with credit cards, not fingers... :-p
  • Sounds pretty good. It'd certainly move people through the lines faster.

    Now, if they'd just do away with those little plastic bags.

    Anyone with privacy concerns should use cash.

  • great.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by eyeball ( 17206 ) on Thursday December 26, 2002 @03:06PM (#4961748) Journal
    Now someone will steal my thumb instead of my wallet.

    • Re:great.... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by theLOUDroom ( 556455 ) on Thursday December 26, 2002 @03:32PM (#4961963)
      Exactly.

      Anyone ever see the movie Demolition Man?
      There's a scene in it the explains very simply why biometric authentication is a bad idea:

      Snipes, needs to bust out of this high-tech future prison, but they have a retinal scanner on the door, so he just takes the eye of some guy he just killed, stick it on a pen and holds it in front or the scanner.

      No thanks. I'd rather be able to surrender my credit card to a mugger and then make a phone call and have the account shut down. If everything goes biometric I have to be a hostage, or loose a body part for them to get what they want. And then...

      What do I do if someone "steals" my fingerprint? I can't exactly go get new ones and shut the old ones down, now can I?

      There are lots of other good reasons why this isn't such a wonderful idea, either. I can send my girlfriend out for a pizza with my credit card, but not if everything is fingerprint based. Then there's the false positive/negative rate problems, the what happens if you hurt your thumb problem, etc. And I don't think I'll even get started on the privacy concerns here.

      The next "credit card" type of system we need, is one where the cards themselves have computers in them and all transactions use encryption. When someone asks me for $5 I can give them an encrypted message for my bank authorizing a one-time transfer. Then I don't have to trust them not to overcharge me (right now they can say they're charging you $5 and charge you $500), or to keep my number safe from 133thaX0rs (see ford for an example of this problem).

      • I believe you can check the temperature of the eye/thumb to check that it is still attached to something alive, or check for pupil dilation or something with the eye.
      • I can send my girlfriend out for a pizza with my credit card

        Not legally, you can't. If she gets caught, the pizza store could easily get her charged with fraud.

        Then there's the false positive/negative rate problems, the what happens if you hurt your thumb problem, etc.

        You use cash, cheque, or credit card. Until the technology is perfect, there'll always be an alternative method of payment. Credit cards haven't phased out cash, have they?

    • Re:great.... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by dracken ( 453199 )
      Philosophically, this statement is much more important. It is a thumb rule in cryptography (pun unintented) to "Never use something to authenticate that cannot be discarded". Passwords, if stolen can be discarded. Smartcards if stolen can be discarded. Finger prints stolen and you are screwed for life. Now you might wonder - "How the heck is someone going to steal my finger prints ?". Just one rouge finger print reader, record the signals - well then use your imagination. This system is scary.

      Dracken.

  • Good idea (Score:4, Interesting)

    by andyring ( 100627 ) on Thursday December 26, 2002 @03:07PM (#4961755) Homepage
    In theory, this is a good idea, I think. Looks like ./ covered this [slashdot.org] back in May. That post also describes a way to fool it with gelatin. Another submission [slashdot.org] talks about Thriftway stores doing this back in April. And, back in Oct. 2001 [slashdot.org] a post described use of fingerprint IDs on Acer laptops.

    So, this is really nothing new, but it looks like this may be one of the larger rollouts of such technology. Really no different (from a practical standpoint) than things like automatic toll booths or Mobil's Speedpass method of buying gas, although fingerprints would be inherently more secure. If we had Kroger stores around here, I'd be willing to sign up, but I don't think they have a presence in Nebraska, at least not in the Lincoln area.

  • some? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Jonny Ringo ( 444580 ) on Thursday December 26, 2002 @03:11PM (#4961787)
    however I'm sure some /.-ers will have privacy concerns as well as law enforcement cooperation issues

    SOME! Shit I already have a problem with the current system. Every time I get asked if I have one of their cards for "saving", I just say "Sorry, I don't join cults"!
    • Every time I get asked if I have one of their cards for "saving", I just say "Sorry, I don't join cults"!

      I can understand saying no, that's perfectly reasonable. But a cult remark just makes you look like a psycho-dumbass. No offense to you at all, but if I was a grocery store clerk and someone said that I'd definitely mark them as being a complete sociopath.

      Just an outsider point of view...

    • Worried about the cards? Make yours a co-op. (Score:4, Informative)

      by Akardam ( 186995 ) on Thursday December 26, 2002 @03:40PM (#4962037)
      That's right. Most stores, you don't even need the actual card. You just key in your phone number. So setup a card with someone's phone number (it doesn't even need to be a valid number), and give it out to all your friends. The more it is used, the more you get savings, and if you give it out to enough people, the demographics become to skewed to be of any use.

      *shrug* It's what me and my family do, and we don't seem to have any problems with using it.

    • Re:some? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by LordYUK ( 552359 )
      Oh please. I am Mr Smith at 6969 Blowme St in Upyerass North Dakota.

      and I still save 30 cents on toilet paper.

      Just because you dont want to give them YOUR information doesnt mean they cant get a false identification.

      Not giving them your address, understandable.

      Spending more than you have to because you are a fucking dumbass, inexcusable.

    • Re:some? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by nolife ( 233813 )
      "Sorry, I don't join cults"!

      Huh? Anyway.. Why not use a fake address and phone number?

      I wonder how long it will be before medical insurance companies start purchasing the detailed buying history of perspective applicants from grocery stores.

      Beer, cigarettes, and Oreo's..
      Three strikes and you're out.

      Over age 65 and you start buying Tum's and Depend brand undergarments your account gets flagged as -Do not Renew-.
    • Ok, yes I'm replying to my own message. Because for some reason a bunch of you think I actually believe that becoming a member of a grocery store and getting a card for coupons is actaully joining an occult.
      My post was a joke! Yes I have actually said this to cashiers and they laugh, because its funny. You should laugh to. Don't be a robot.
    • Yet you are a member of slashdot...

      talk about the pot calling the kettle black...
    • The cards save me too much money to not use, however, since my cat has one, I just use his. ;)

  • It can even be automated, if you really want to, with bill and coin accepters.

    I wonder at what point all this information becomes wastful. You just know that because this information can be tracked, it will. But imagine if we suddenly switched back to an all-cash system. There would be so much less data to store, transmit, transform, mess up, validate, etc. There's a certain economy in that, isn't there?

    • Corporate tracking methods aside, there's another reason why The Big Dogs want the populous to stop using cash: cash is untrackable and tens of thousands of dollars a year simply disappear into granny's' matresses across the country.

      Further--and more importantly to the government--it allows for sales of goods to go UNTAXED. How many of you here on /. have ever paid tax at a garage sale? Or how many of you have ever paid taxes to the gov't for the money you made off of your own garage sales? Not to mention all the other [il]legal transactions that the gov't doesn't get to pilfer.

  • Of course, I lied about all of my information. They might begin wondering why some kid in the dorms is buying all that beer!
  • Will your 'print' also act as your Kroger Plus card (their loyalty program) as well? I know that a lot of you won't even fill out those loyalty card applications, or swap around with your friends. Bring in the finger print technology though (shiny technology), and you're all for that.
  • Yes he did! In his book 'Secrets and Lies'

    He pointed out that if it was compromised, they'd have to issue you a new thumb....

  • Which finger? (Score:5, Funny)

    by rknop ( 240417 ) on Thursday December 26, 2002 @03:19PM (#4961860) Homepage

    The folks at the Kroger closest to where I live are very unfriendly and frequently downright nasty. I hate to think what the work environment must be like for everybody there to want to lash out at anybody who comes into the store... as a result, usually my wife and I drive a bit further to go to a different store.

    But, if given the option of using my finger to pay, I might go back to the mean Kroger, if I had the option of choosing which finger I got to stick out at them when paying....

    -Rob

  • Wouldn't someone need to have compared everyone's finger print against everyone else's who ever lived to determine that they are unquie? Or is it that they are unqiue enough?

    I feel sorry for that housewife with similar prints that matches a partial print of a criminal wanted by authorities. It should be a fun time in her kitchen an hour later when the authorities arrive.

  • way too easy to hack (Score:2, Interesting)

    by bratgrrl ( 197603 )
    There are so many possible points of failure it's not funny. Not only creating fake fingerprints with Gummi Bears, as other posters said, but once a fingerprint is made into digital file, it's way too easy to misuse and abuse:

    - how good is the digital representation of your fingerprint?
    - how solid are the security policies of whoever administers the system?
    - who oversees the tech staff, who has access to the customer data?
    - how secure is the system authenticating the fingerprints?
    - how do you authenticate users initially, when they are entered into the system? Once a fake gets in, how will you ever know?

    And of course the many privacy concerns, as more and more private businesses become branches of law enforcement.

    Just say no. Pay cash.

  • Another store to not get my business. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jackb_guppy ( 204733 ) on Thursday December 26, 2002 @03:22PM (#4961883)
    I and my wife, do not sign electronic tablets - your signatares are the last line of defense from fraud.

    We do not use Mobil's / Mc Donald's speed pass.

    We use a debit cards attached to an account different from our main account - to protect against on-line fraud.

    Our local transit system tracks you by smart card use. So we do not use these.

    We will not fly anymore because of the tracking and security there. (anyone wantto hand out free chocolates to stop the scanners?)

    Our free country is becoming Russia of old, maybe even Germany? So who really won those last wars?

    Use cash. That will keep the lines moving!
  • The hell if I will support an automated money sucking store that is too greedy to even pay a dang cashier...

    No, im not bagging my own groceries! Its better to pay people to work even if the job is simple. Far better than to pay taxes to support these same people on welfare...

    Good ole Clinton and Engler (Governor) kicked so many off welfare even as corporations sought to fire even those they currently employed.

    All the while the politicians continue to insist Greed is good for capatalism. (contrary to Christianity)

  • obvious security concerns (Score:5, Informative)

    by drDugan ( 219551 ) on Thursday December 26, 2002 @03:33PM (#4961971) Homepage

    Customers can register for the voluntary program by presenting a drivers license, an index finger and a method of payment -- either credit card, debit card or electronic check

    The concern I have is whether random company X will be smart enough to protect payment methods data and fingerprint data, both (most likely) linked to personal info.

    A relative worked in a co for a few years back that implemented the software to get supermarkets to accept CCs. The implementations always prevented the merchant from keeping/tracking the payment info. I think this intentional (data anyone?) on the part of the CC companies -- and it's why supermarkets use the 'bonus cards' 'rebate cards' etc. instead of just tracking your purchases with which CC you use. The supermarkets typically don't keep the cc numbers/ name etc. after purchase is complete (I think).

    Regardless -- Under this new system, KROGER has to use/implement some IT system that tracks all the users payment methods and prints. While Kroger may do this fine, the assumption is that any company that wants to implement this kind of system, has to either implement or access a (possibly centralized) repository of fingerprint payment method mapping DB, with personal data. This is an enormous hacking target. I work under that assumption that anything that people access can be hacked, and therefore people should alway weigh the benefit of putting datasources together that create a risk for being stolen.

    While that arguement does not really apply for one company, as more and more companies start to do this, the question becomes will the systems be secore enough to justify the benefits and costs?

  • A fellow mentioned the look he got when he goes in to buy rubbers.
    Like the evil eye he feels like he gets, what's going to happen if you don't want to do this? Most average joes will like the idea, be reminded of Back To The Future 2 and sign right up. But people who are worried about privacy, failure rate, and law enforcment entanglements could automatically be up for suspicious looks if they *don't* fork over a thumb (or any other finger).

    Also, since people have been talking about how easy it is to fool a fingerprint biometric scanner - how does this compare to retinal scanning and what are the problems behind *that* method? Visions of the mall scene in Minority Report come to mind.
  • I for one would not trust this system with my credit card or atm card. The system can be quite easily fooled with some super-glue, a pcb board, and gelatin.

    Bruce Schneier wrote an article [counterpane.com] about the process and which also has link to the presention [itu.int]given by the Japanese professor who came up with and tested the process.

  • Just a thought, really.
    Come cold and flu season you will have hundreds, if not thousands of people slapping their hands in the same place every day- a haven for germs to pass along from person to person.
    If it's all the same to you, i'll pass.
  • "I'm sure some /.-ers will have privacy concerns"

    Paying by fingerprint is far more private than handing over a check with my bank account, address, phone number, and in some states my social security number on it. It also beats generating credit card receipts containing my account number, which can still be used online.

    "As well as law enforcement cooperation issues..."

    If law enforcement is tracking you down, they have better ways than working with a retailer's fingerprint database. This is a case where the only people who need to worry really ARE the criminals, who could just pay with cash anyway.
    • "Paying by fingerprint is far more private than handing over a check with my bank account, address, phone number, and in some states my social security number on it. It also beats generating credit card receipts containing my account number, which can still be used online."

      These are all good points, but what happens when someone compromises your fingerprint?

      Bank accounts, credit cards, even social security numbers are all changeable and replaceable. Fingerprints you're stuck with for life.

  • Snake Oil (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MenTaLguY ( 5483 ) on Thursday December 26, 2002 @03:44PM (#4962069) Homepage

    Such a system relies on two major assumptions:

    • Your finger is unique and physically secure (hopefully true)
    • There's no "your finger" equivalent that someone could use (patently false and hopelessly naive)

    The problems with such a system:

    1. It's easy to falsify. It's actually almost trivially easy [counterpane.com] to fool a fingerprint reader and fake someone else's fingerprint. (note that the type of gelatin Matsumoto used is seaweed based -- a little stiffer and a bit different than what we use in the states, but I'm sure you can find it here in an asian grocery store or similar)
    2. It's not verifiable. There is no challenge-response method possible with your finger to verify that it's even your finger, unless you want to add an embedded subcutaneous microchip, as in a smart card (but then why a fingerprint at all?). Worse, no such system actually checks your fingerprint; it computes a numeric hash of some sort from key features. Any hackery that can get you into the system behind the fingerprint reader means you just use the numeric hash (VERY easy to copy!) instead of a fingerprint. Consequently, it's no more secure than a credit card number in this respect.
    3. It's not unique. Two words: hash collisions. Not such a big deal for authentication, but a real problem for identification.
    4. It's not revokable. Given the above, if someone steals either your fingerprint or its hash, it's not like you can just get a new one, like you can a credit card number. You'd better hope the system at least allows you to switch to a new finger (and hope you don't run out of fingers). In the worst case, then, it's actually LESS secure than a credit card.

  • Grocery stores are where the technology is at... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by VudooCrush ( 220143 ) <draino@echo.kirenet . c om> on Thursday December 26, 2002 @03:50PM (#4962119)
    I currently work for one of the largest grocery chains in the US. We're trying all different kinds of things -- ie automated checkout's, online grocery stores, pda based ordering in the deli, super carts which tell you when your passing a good deal, and other things. We've had wireless access points in our stores for years. All of the guns the stores order with are wireless. Some stores have more Cisco equipment in them than a small ISP does. And the great thing about grocery chains is they don't go bankrupt like so many dotcoms have. It's like McDonald's disapearing, it's not going to happen.
  • Why do I need to sign the credit card receipt at restaurants, grocery stores, etc., but don't need to sign it at gas stations? Gee, Vern, someone could steal my Exxon SpeedPass and gas up New Jersey. (insert NJ gas joke here). How many other "inconsistencies" are there? Just curious. :})||
  • Getting a Drivers License in Georgia requires you to provide your finger prints. I am wary of this and still expect my conformity to come back and haunt me. Seems that the DMV is just a way to get more finger prints to compare against in crimes.

    I've watched enough 'Law and Order' as well as 'Forensic files' , 'The New Detectives' and others. Seems to me that just a FEW hits on your fingerprint is enough to convince people that it was really yours. Until I commit a crime, I don't want the state having my Fingerprint. Much less a grocery store.

    This is something, along with the 'bonus cards' that I hope to never give in to. I do believe that these finger ID systems will just be another way to track people and their movements. I mean if Hardcore right wingers want to talk about 'the mark of the beast' and such in relation to people being BarCoded, how are they going to react when they hear that EVERYONE HAS A SERIAL NUMBER ENCODED INTO THEIR FINGER PRINT!!??!?!

    This is truely a step towards total population control.
  • a story from April 2002 showing a Seattle area Thriftway inplementing a similar system


    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/68217_thumb27. shtml [nwsource.com]
  • Kroger tries to pilfer enough personal information via their Kroger Kard (tm) as it is.

    These cards are used to pilfer personal spending habits. What the consumer (AKA a person) gets in return is a discount on an item that was probably marked up anyway. Randalls has also implemented this scheme. What all of this means is that people willingly whore their privacy for a small discount on overpriced goods.

    The whole point of this is that retailers want to be able to amass a large database of consumer spending habits, and sell these to the largest bidder. The days of suckering people into a store with double coupon days are rapidly becoming a relic of the past.

    Kroger et al. can stick this fascist crap up their collective corporate asses.

    I will shop at HEB instead.

    Besides I hope they do try this, I have a feeling even the most clueless drooling consumeroid will have reservations about using this system. Besides, they will probably lose money on this as most places I have heard about using this type of technology always abandon it, as it doesn't work worth a damn, and requires multiple scan attempts to read a fingerprint correctly.
    • it(the cards) can only track you if you give it correct information.
      I have several cards, two for my cats, one for the president of the US, and one for Bill gates. SO I just use theirs ;)

      I save about 250 bucks a month using those cards. If I ever did have to give accurate information, I can't say whether or not I would, but even if I did, I would find away to make them either outlawed, of open the store up to liablilty. Perhaps religious discrimination. I believe its the mark of the beast, and its agains my religeon to have one, you are charging me more money for not having one, therefore you are discriminating me.
      HA!
  • My credit union uses a hand scanner, which measures certain exterior dimensions of my hand, to admit me to the safe deposit vault.

    I have no beefs with this device, but I would with a fingerprint scanner.

    That's because I don't leave an imprint of the shape of my hand on everything I touch. I do leave fingerprints on everything I touch, so I'd prefer if no one had my fingerprints on file -- whether they be a private or public organization.
  • It's none of their business. Period.

    Same thing for the intrusive 'saver cards' they try to require you to use to get *sale* times...

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