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The Almighty Buck Your Rights Online

Newest Scam: Fake Escrow Accounts 139

Posted by timothy from the caveat-emptor dept.
MImeKillEr writes "MSNBC is running an article warning about the latest auction site scam: Fake escrow accounts. The article claims scam artists are tricking Net users into wiring thousands of dollars to fraudulent bank accounts. The criminals do this by setting up a trap auction and when the winner asks how to make a payment, the criminal tells them to pay into an escrow account. One legit escrow account who had a criminal mimic their site said that as many as 50 users had lost and average of $10,000 with at least one being conned out of $30,000 in such a way. There are reportedly at least 150 fake escrow accounts. The FBI is currently investigating the matter."
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Newest Scam: Fake Escrow Accounts More

Newest Scam: Fake Escrow Accounts

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  • Link? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Tuffnut ( 618438 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @05:34AM (#4914468)
    Where's the article link? .. It must have been auctioned off...that'd odd.

  • Story Link (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @05:36AM (#4914473)
    Here's a link to the actual MSNBC story:

    Fake escrow site scam widens [msnbc.com]

  • thats the problem with these systems (Score:4, Insightful)

    by krist0 ( 313699 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @05:37AM (#4914477) Homepage Journal
    the problem i see with alot of these online auctions is the level of trust needed. Sure there are checks in place to try make sure everyone and everything is legit...but still, out in the land of the 'net, where anonymity is king, its not to hard to fix these kinds of things (and the impetus to do it is also high, because of this feeling on anonymity) and lets face it, there are lots of people out there that will fall into these traps....i dont feel too sorry for stupid people (at least, until i become one) but still, would this happen in a real life (ie, non online) auction
    • Speaking of level of trust.

      Perhaps the things mentioned here [ftrain.com] will come true one day.

    • That's why I never use eBay, and I use Craigslist _all_ the time. With Craigslist, there's no shipping, and since responses to ads are only socially binding, you get plenty of takers. The best part is... when you're doing a transfer, the buyer examines the goods. In person. Then the buyer hands cash to the seller. If it turns out that the goods were somehow defective... the buyer knows where the seller lives. No one gets fucked. Brilliant.

      Of course, it's not the same thing. The most obscure items on eBay need a national auction. When I'm buying a sofa, though...

  • Here's an article link... (Score:3, Informative)

    by orbital3 ( 153855 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @05:38AM (#4914479)
    Being that the editors didn't provide one... I don't know if this is the same article, as it's dated July 3, but it's from MSNBC and relevant.

    Link [msnbc.com]
    • Sorry to reply to myself, but now that others have posted the link to the real article, it looks like the link I posted is the original piece referenced in the new article. Still worth a read though...

  • [insert ignorance here] (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    What in an Escrow account?

    • Re:[insert ignorance here] (Score:5, Informative)

      by jez9999 ( 618189 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @05:43AM (#4914489) Homepage Journal
      It's a bank account associated with an escrow service, which is a service which holds a buyer's money in trust, until they have received the item from the seller, and then forwards the money on to the seller. This protects the buyer, but not the seller. The account is the one which the buyer pays in to.

      I never understood why escrows weren't 2-way things - ie. the seller also sends the item to the escrow, and when the escrow has received both parties' payment, they forward them along. I guess it's just a bit harder/more expensive to do.
      • I guess it's just a bit harder/more expensive to do.

        this would be very true and it would also slow down orders a lot not to mention the insurance the escrow service would need.

      • It would make scamming even more easy. Receive both the goods AND the money...
      • in many cases they're more or less two-way.

        take property. i sell you a house, you buy the house, the money is in escrow to protect us both.

        it protects you because you get the money back if i'm pulling a scam (if it's not really my house, or something).

        it protects me because i know i'll get that money after i sign the house over to you. i know because i have a contract with the escrow company, just like you do. when i deliver proof that you bought the house, and the escrow company double-checks its validity, then i get the money. that's what i pay them for (the seller usually pays for the escrow).

        in any case where the seller can prove that the buyer received the thing sold, escrow works for the benefit of both parties. if the escrow company doesn't offer the seller a clear contract specifying what constitutes delivery of the product or service, then you should take your percentage elsewhere.

        i made a large purchase in a country where escrow is not usually used, and i was more than a little bit nervous during the time when i had paid a massive down payment and the only thing guaranteeing the sale was a contract. the other side was also nervous, since the only thing guaranteeing that the rest of the money would show up was the same contract.

  • Escrows suck (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jez9999 ( 618189 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @05:38AM (#4914481) Homepage Journal
    Escrow services suck, and nobody should use them; here's why.

    I buy something at an auction. I pay the escrow, and the seller sends the item and I receive it. However, I tell the escrow that I haven't received the item. I get my money back, and the item for free!

    Escrows still rely on the truthfulness of the buyer.

    And there's this fake escrow thing, too.

    • Actually . . . (Score:4, Informative)

      by DrMrLordX ( 559371 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @05:51AM (#4914516)
      A smart escrow service designed to handle auction payments would: 1). Require the shipper to ship using a specific shipping service(such as UPS) that provides tracking information for the package. 2). Refuse to accept payment into the escrow account until the item has been shipped and a valid tracking # has been provided 3). Refuse to release the payment from escrow to either party until the package has arrived as per the sale agreement. Essentially, collaboration between the shipping service and the escrow service could provide more protection for the seller. This, of course, would rely upon the validity and consistancy of the shipping service's tracking data.

      • Re:Actually . . . (Score:4, Insightful)

        by BlueUnderwear ( 73957 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @06:02AM (#4914541)
        Refuse to release the payment from escrow to either party until the package has arrived as per the sale agreement.

        ... and what happens after the item has arrived? A fraudulent seller could just send a box of gravel. A fraudulent buyer could just claim that he got a box of gravel... Who determines who's the liar?

        • Re:Actually . . . (Score:1, Interesting)

          by Mxyzptlk ( 138505 )
          If you're smart, then you open the box before accepting it.

          If you're so lazy that you don't take every precaution against being scammed, then don't come and complain afterwards... Sad but true.
          • If you're smart, then you open the box before accepting it.

            Well, the example of the gravel was somewhat extreme and unrealistic. In reality, you'd probably get the item you ordered, but it might not be in a working condition, which might not be obvious by visual inspection. And do you really think the delivery guy would have the patience to wait until you've fully tested that digital gizmo that you ordered?

      • Refuse to accept payment into the escrow account until the item has been shipped and a valid tracking # has been provided

        What's the point of that. If they're a legit escrow, they should definately accept payment into the escrow account at any time. They can always refund it back with a wire transfer later, if need be.

  • Accounts? (Score:5, Informative)

    by DJPenguin ( 17736 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @05:39AM (#4914482)
    Do they mean Accounts or Sites? I'm currently being "scammed" by a chap in france, who wants to buy 30 mobile phones off me. He insists we use www.golden-escrow.co.uk for "safety" and I'm playing along.

    I'm seeing if I can get him to wire me a £30 admin charge before we do business, after all, that's a drop in the ocean for him! :)

    I'm actually quite impressed with the fake escrow site, the registration and setup process seems to work quite well. A few things give it away though, no real contact details, lack of SSL even though privacy policy mentions ecryption, and the fact the the scammer insists I use it of course.

    I can see this as being so very dangerous for non-technical people. The scammers must be making thousands. The only thing we can do is to warn people.

    A few tips:

    * See if you can contact your trading partner on the phone or whatever BEFORE you do business
    * DON'T send money outside your own country (especially not to Indonesia ;) )
    * Only buy from people with positive feedback
    * NEVER ship goods before you have Actual Money in your pocket
    * Be suspicious of EVERYONE

    I'll post a follow-up if I hear back from my scammer chap today!
    • Wow. That is an excellent scam site. My hat's off to them. It's almost perfect.

      They still don't seem to understand that poor spelling and grammar are a tip off, even aside from the lack of SSL etc. It is extremely difficult to find any sort of scam on the web that is completely sound, from an English standpoint. The first person singular pronoun "I" is always capitalized in English. The capitalization on this site is inconsistent even across the front page (look in the FAQ box, top right.) In their FAQ, they have used the non-word "acceptation". Oooh--so close to plausible, too. Bummer. I'm sure that with a little more effort they could develop a really first-rate scam. Why can't scammers ever hire a proofreader?

      By the way--has anyone turned them in to Western Union? They're using WU's logo on the front page.

    • Re:Accounts? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Elphin ( 7066 )

      I was curious, so I spent a few minutes checking out www.golden-escrow.co.uk (sounds similar to the www.golden-escrow.com mentioned in the MSNBC article, which is currently unavailable).


      I just wanted to see how easy it would be to figure out something was amiss. As the original poster said, the site looks OK, but the lack of any contact details starts the alarm bells ringing. A little further digging leaves you in little doubt...


      Checking Nominet [195.66.240.196], the domain is apparently registered by "Golden Escrow Inc" with a US address.


      A google for "Golden Escrow Inc" [google.com] turns up this information page [mortgagemag.com] with a link to their website www.escrow.cc [escrow.cc]


      Seems legit, but it's coupled with a popup with the following warning:



      • WARNING: A certain entity or entities are using a website address containing the name Golden-Escrow. Please note that this address includes a hyphen. The entity or entities using this website address are not affiliated with Golden Escrow, Inc. and are using this website address without the consent of Golden Escrow, Inc. Golden Escrow, Inc. has contacted the proper authorities to further investigate this matter and assures you that this in no way affects its past, current or future business activities. Any sites other than goldenescrow.com, goldenescrow.net, and escrow.cc are not affiliated with Golden Escrow, Inc.

      So what we have is someone registering a fake domain, even going as far as providing the address of the *real* Golden Escrow, who in turn are proactively warning visitors of the scam. Took me a few minutes of digging to know I should steer clear (not that I would use an escrow anyway!). Your typical geek isn't going to be taken in, but how to educate everyone else, that's the trick...

      • You'd think since the db registration info points to the REAL escrow site, the real site owners could simply contact the ISP (with the registrar info as proof) and have it shut down.

        I was reading somewhere yesterday (boingboing? fark?) about a company that set up a parody site and submitted the reg info as being Dow (as in Dow Chemicals, showing the son of the founder of Dow as the owner). The guy who was specified as the owner contacted the ISP where the spoof site was hosted and had it turned off.

    • One way to shut these things down is to get the guys doing the scamming.

      Okay, now that I've done the "Mr. Obvious Man" imiatation, let me pontificate a bit.

      It's one thing to try and track down the web site author, which can be tough at best, but when you've got a real point of contact who's insisting on USING the fake web site, and it's a fairly sure bet he's part of the scam, you've got a much simpler target. Ebay certainly would go after this guy, and the French authorities may also very well be interested in nailing him.

      Unlike the web site creators, it may actually be fairly easy for Ebay to get hold of this guy, when they can prove criminal intent and have good reason to release the details to authorities. At the least, they can use YOUR help to set up a sting - supply you with the funds, follow thru the transaction, observe the scam unfold, and then go get the guy where he lives.
      • http://www.msnbc.com/news/818257.asp?0cb=-11911095 7

        http://www.msnbc.com/news/809148.asp?0cb=-219110 95 7

        There are just plenty of indications that eBay is NOT fundamentally ethical. They apparently do not vigorously and rigorously prosecutw all evidence, and seem willing to accept a high a rate of fraud as think will not scare off the bulk of the buyers. It seems that they just look at it as a marketing perception problem to be minimally managed.

        The lesson, stay out of the popular goods, avoid the power sellers, make only modest purchases you can afford to lose, and generally beware.

        There are lots of great people both buying and selling on eBay; this approach should keep you working with them.

        • I was scammed out of $150 on eBay for a software package. What I was sent was the demo version and a time-bombed demo unlock code. And the seller had had good feedback.

          Shortly there after, the seller disappeared, and then EBAY cancelled the account, indicating that EBAY knew these guys were frauds. But did eBay make it easy for victims to reclaim funds? Not on your life.

          It's almost impossible to even find the eBay safe harbor forms. If you can find them, there is all sorts of "real" not "e" paperwork to fill out. I sent it all using registered mail to their address in Utah. According to their own rules, they were to respond in 90 days (or something like that).

          They finally responded in more like six months. Only after countless emails on my part. You can't call ebay -- they make that impossible.

          So though eBay knew these guys were frauds, they made it very difficult for me to file a claim, and then they took six months, not three months to return my money.

          It's this kind of crap from eBay and Paypal that has me wishing state/federal regulation on them.
    • I got scammed like this about 4 year ago....send a guy a shipment of MP3 players, fake escrow never released the cash. The site was very professional, nothing to make me suspicious. But, I'm out 7K....I was able to track down the guy, but he is Romanian. And as you can imagine that is pretty much a black hole for this kind of stuff...


      Lesson learned!

    • I had a look at the site too. It looks just too amateur to be real. I think the biggest tipoff that it is a scam is that for a British website, all of the words that vary between American and British (rest of the world) English invariably take the American form. Were I British, that would set off alarm bells right there. It's so sad that scammers are everywhere

    • DON'T send money outside your own country (especially not to Indonesia ;))


      I wan't to cry reading this. I am an Indonesian citizen, and I am not proud of what has done by many thieves here. But I still wish you believe that there are many honest people here in Indonesia which hate those robbers, but can't push government yet to create firmer law to lessen those incidents. But we have been trying to do so.

    • This sets a huge red flag for me:

      July 15, 2002
      golden-escrow.co.uk changes it's payment methods. Transactions are to be paid only
      by e-gold or Western Union.

      That reeks of pure fraud...

  • Applause to the Poster.. (Score:5, Informative)

    by CBNobi ( 141146 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @05:40AM (#4914484)
    Who saved the Slashdot editors time by not even posting a link to the article! Brilliant!

    For those who actually want to RTFA:
    Fake escrow site scam widens [msnbc.com]

    Hint: Google News is our friend
    • Actually, I included the link to the article (I assumed NOT including it would mean immediate rejection). For whatever reason, the link didn't get published.

      As others have pointed out, the article is here [msnbc.com]

  • Those idiots out there. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by trotski ( 592530 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @05:44AM (#4914493)
    I'm sorry, if you wire 30,000 dollars to any account after an auction without making absolutly certain that you're actually going to recieve the service you're paying for; then well, you're stupid. Simple as that.

    If this person had any good sense they would have mode darn sure they're not being scammed. If a person parts with 30,000 dollars this way than they deserve it. Perhaps they'll be more carful when bidding 30,000 dollars on an online auction.

    Then again, I suppose the world is full of idiots... want proof? read Slashdot at -1 :).
    • Agreed.

      Something that is better than actually transferring money to someone else, before checking the merchandise, is to earmark the money (but don't do the transfer). If the buyer is satisfied upon reception of the merchandise, then the money is transferred. If the buyer is dissatisfied, then the merchandise is sent back, and the earmark is removed. The earmarking would be done through the buyers bank (that's the way for example credit card payments work).
      • "Something that is better than actually transferring money to someone else, before checking the merchandise, is to earmark the money (but don't do the transfer)."

        Uh, that's what an escrow account is. Under normal circumstances, it's a neutral, trusted third-party that holds the money and only turns it over to the seller once the merchandise is verified. The problem is that the crooks are using escrow sites that aren't really neutral, trusted third-parties.

        • Sorry - I wasn't clear enough: what I meant was that I, as the buyer, can trust my bank, since I have been doing business with it for a long time. A bank is a better escrow than a relatively anonymous company who specialize in escrow, and just about nothing else.
    • I have to disagree. Why is it so wrong to trust people? I'll admit that $30,000 is a lot to spend on an ebay auction but with ratings, feedback, etc., it's very easy to get a lapse in judgement and trust a complete stranger.

      I hardly think that assuming an escrow service isn't a fake site would make someone an idiot. There are plenty of very intelligent people out there who wouldn't know that faking an escrow site is even possible. You would realize this if you ever spent time around a hospital where you have brilliant people (Doctors), who don't know all that much about computers and/or the net.
    • Do you think it's okay to take advantage of the less intelligent, or are you just saying that people deserve to suffer the consequences of their actions?

      Why condem the poeple who were scammed? Shouldn't we be thinking about ways to educate people, or help them get their money back? Being too trusting isn't a crime that should cost someone $30,000.

      Of course, if you believe in a world where it is moral for the more intelligent or powerful to take advantage of those less so, anything that helps the weak or incompetent is surely detrimental to the gene pool.

  • You know.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by sickboy_macosX ( 592550 ) <{sickboy} {at} {inconnu.isu.edu}> on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @05:50AM (#4914512) Homepage Journal
    How come it is so easy for a thug to make money, but a unemployed software engineer cant do it? Why is that? Does crime take a special function in the brain? is it like a complicated SQL database? If so I wanna program it so I can make money! it isnt fair!! Anyways thats my rant..
    • How come it is so easy for a thug to make money, but a unemployed software engineer cant do it?

      I guess an unemployed software engineer could set up a fake escrow site, html's not that hard! ;-)

    • Does crime take a special function in the brain? is it like a complicated SQL database?

      I once wrote a Bank Robbers HOWTO using the Linux HOWTO model. Hosting company pulled it after two weeks :P I was going to put it up again for you, but alas, it appears I didn't save it.

    • "How come it is so easy for a thug to make money, but a unemployed software engineer cant do it? Why is that? Does crime take a special function in the brain? is it like a complicated SQL database?"

      Watch the movie "Office Space" to find the answer to this :-)

    • If you're willing to frighten, cheat, brutalize and hurt your fellow human beings, you can get a lot of goods and services you would otherwise have to pay for or spend a lot of effort to obtain legitimately. Need $50? Go rob a convenience store, the $6/hour clerk won't put up much of a fight. Want a Beemer? Car-jack some rich guy at a stop light. Shoot him in the head if he resists. Been a dry year in the bedroom? Rape a woman jogging in the park. It's as simple as that. If you can't bring yourself to do these things, congratulations, you may very well be a well-adjusted human being, regardless of how much "Cowboy Bebop" you watch :-)

  • Obligatory Who...errr.. Useful Information (Score:5, Informative)

    by trotski ( 592530 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @05:50AM (#4914513)
    Heres some more info about this scan in case you're interested:

    Sos4auctions.com [sos4auctions.com] - Technical details about the scam.
    Another Article [auctionbytes.com] - in case you DON'T want to support M$ by reading MSNBC.
    The company supposedly running the scam [premier-escrow.com] - Hehehe... they use a Win2K server... lets see how fast it gets slashdotted :)

    Thats all for now, good night everyone!

  • A friend of mine got nailed this way too.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by weave ( 48069 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @05:54AM (#4914523) Journal
    My friend is a consultant. Bought three laptops on eBay. Sent a tad bit under $10K to an escrow service, never got the laptops, the money and escrow service disappeared.

    He can't get anyone to care. Not eBay for sure. Not the police, not FBI. He found out the scammers were working out of Romania and contacted their police, and hasn't gotten too far either. The scammers made it appear they were located in Minnesota. In the meantime he sees more auctions that look similar and contacted them with his same ID and addy, and they sent him details for payment, etc. They didn't even remember it was the same guy they scammed a few weeks earlier. They continue to operate and nail people over and over... (and since it wasn't a Mac laptop, he doesn't have that fanatical base of users to get help him either! :)

    Let me take this opportunity to rant about the inequities law enforcement in this (U.S.) country. These are huge losses for individuals and when combined represent large sums of money overall, but law enforcement doesn't care. But you have some theoretical theft of a $18 CD and then we must throw the weight of the FBI after the P2P'ers. If a guy robs a 7-eleven of $20, he must spend 20 years in jail, but if a white collar criminal bilks several million bucks from a company, he gets a mild slap on the wrist, if that... If my house gets broken into and I lose everything, now the police don't even want to bother coming out to "investigate" the crime. They take a report over the phone and send you a police report for insurance purposes, but heaven forbid you don't come to a full stop at a stop sign or creep over the speed limit, because they are out there in full force ready to nail you with tickets.

    • Being right (both morally and legally) is not the same as getting a verdict in your favor, or getting help from the police.

      If you want to be the "winning part", then make sure that you get lots of media attention and a massive following (protest lists, anybody?). That puts lots of stress on the decision makers (police/court/companies/whatever), and if nothing else, they will probably give you some money for goodwill.

      Either that, or make/inherit lots of money and hire a bunch of lawyers to work for you.
      • >>If you want to be the "winning part", then make sure that you get lots of media attention and a massive following (protest lists, anybody?). That puts lots of stress on the decision makers (police/court/companies/whatever), and if nothing else, they will probably give you some money for goodwill.--

        They might lock you up. People in jail don't vote.
    • Sad fact is, shooting people makes good headlines for TV stations. Lots of gory pictures, stoney faced reporters queueing for next years media awards, etc, etc.

      Applying "slight of hand", also known as fraud, doesn't make headlines. Unless it's a little grey haired old lady and it's otherwise a slow news day.

      Politicians love to be able to say "I fixed things" when an issue's in the headlines.

      You need to work in a "war on terror" angle before it will attract policiticans interest.

    • I'm from Romania, maybe I can help (Score:4, Informative)

      by cbraescu1 ( 180267 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @10:51AM (#4914906) Homepage
      Hi, I'm Catalin Braescu, I'm from Romania. Maybe I can help - I dislike Romanian scammers twice: first for what they are doing and second because the reputation they build for my country prevents me to do as much business as I can.

      My e-mail address is CATALIN at EDISON.RO

      Best regards,

      Catalin
    • The easiest thing to do (or not:) is to find every auction from these assholes, and bid about a million dollars or so. I suggest setting up a dummy account. I imagine it's not that hard to set up a perl script to do the work.
    • Read the laws on these "white collar" crimes and compare them to the laws regarding shoplifting or minor crimes. If you don't believe the legal system is built to keep upper class citizens out of jail you are missing something.

      Another thing to take into consideration is the levels of law enforcement. City and county police are dealing with murders, meth lab explosions, armed robbery of businesses, and plenty of things that fall into a higher category of importance in their manuals than your house getting broken into. FBI is dealing with terrorism, multi-million dollar scams, building systems like Carnivore to pretend they have a clue what's going on in the information age, and other things that bring them press attention and a pat on the back. eBay is busy making money, ignoring customer complaints and trying their best to keep things that drop their stock price out of the media, making money, pretending fraud doesn't happen on the net, and making money.
      • City and county police are dealing with murders, meth lab explosions, armed robbery of businesses, and plenty of things that fall into a higher category of importance in their manuals than your house getting broken into.

        ... don't give me that, I don't buy it. I wish it were true but I don't see it. For example, I lived near a section 8 apartment complex I had to walk through to get to the grocery store and I'd regularly see the police running a speed trap on a 35 MPH road with no side streets and 12 foot road-grade shoulders, enriching their revenue while in this complex, people were dealing drugs out in the open, breaking into vehicles, etc, etc...

        The speed limit on that road was set artificially low just so the local police could run speed traps.

        Another time I got ticketed for running a stop sign. Thing is, I stopped alright but since I didn't put down my foot on my motorcycle, I got the ticket. Now if you're a biker, you know you can often come to a complete stop and remain upright for a second or two without putting your foot down. But I had to get a ticket so that officer could meet his (officially) fictional quota.

        My opinion, their priorities are all screwed up... (i don't blame the officers, it's their superiors that make the policies and set the priorities)

  • Ignorance is its own punishment (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    And wiring money to a bank outside the country is always a bad idea, experts say.

    As a rule, if you need an expert to tell you wiring money to a bank outside the country is always a bad idea, you're halfway to hopeless anyway.

    Face it, anyone who wires $30,000 to an account at a bank they've never heard of, by request of an escrow company they know nothing about, because they want to buy a car over the internet, any one that flat-out, no-other-way-to-put-this, STUPID, deserves to be ripped off. Maybe it'll teach them a lesson.

  • Uhhhh... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TheDanish ( 576008 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @05:59AM (#4914533) Journal
    Part of the article:

    The criminals build elaborate fake escrow Web sites, with convincing names like Simple-Escrow.net and WhyEscrow.com.

    Is it just me, or are simple-escrow.net and whyescrow.com still up? Were they using them as examples of legit or escrows or not? They're chock full of grammar and spelling errors ("simple-escrow.net, the most powerfull escrow service available on the net..." is their first claim, and whyescrow has a really bad flash intro...). Were these sites taken down? Did others take their place? Did some people read the article and decide to take those domains? So confusing...
  • SUCCESS BREEDS IMITATORS

    The article mentions that success breeds imitators.

    So MSNBC posts an article about a fake escrow site that SUCCESSFULLY stole $500,000. That's IMITATABLE

  • RTA! (Score:1)

    by doowy ( 241688 )
    I guess it has finally gotten to the point where there is no need to link the article as history shows noone ever reads them! :)
  • they are auctioning stupidity.. and people are actually bidding and consequentially paying up for it :D
    I'm surprised that none of these users have sued.
  • Escrow is pronounced just as the french word "escroc", which means "crook"

    No big surprise....
  • It happens all the time, people needs to be careful [nsxprime.com].
  • I personally can't believe how many people buy/sell with Net auctions. I *never* use auctions to buy or sell anything that's worth more than say, $50. And if I do buy something, I use my credit card just to be sure. And, in the few times I've used auctions, I did get burned once, and it took me months to get my credit card refunded, which happened just before I lodged a protest with my credit card company. No matter how many systems are implemented, I just think that the idea of buying and selling to unknown individuals that could be anywhere and anybody is an inherently bad idea. I'd much rather pay a bit extra to buy from a known vendor than pay money to an individual. People who use things like eBay heavily do so at their own risk.
    • You should send the official "protest letter" to your credit card company as soon as you realize that things aren't right. In many cases, there's a time limit to file the protest before the credit card company gets to wash their hands from the transaction.

      After the first rejection or ignored request from the "merchant" go straight to the CC issuer.
      • Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I didn't know there was a time limit. Well, I would know if every credit card didn't come with a 50 page, tiny print contract that you'd need a lawyer to decipher. Next time instead of fighting, I'll contact the CC people *immediately*. I got lucky that one time it happened.
        • I'm not a lawyer, and I understood the agreement. I'll summarize "bend over...we own you" :)

          Seriously, the majority of cc companies seem to have 90 days from the fradulent charge as the time period. your mileage may vary.
    • If you buy and sell a great deal, then a site like eBay can help to save more than you'd ever lose. I've recently bought all of the following on eBay:
      1. A current model pen-based Fujitsu portable that retails for $4k. I got it for $1k on eBay. I'm using it right now. That's a savings of $3k! I love this machine and it works wonderfully. I could never have afforded it new. I also got a whole bunch of USB 2.0 peripherals for it at rock-bottom prices (i.e. 9.4GB DVD-RAM/DVD-R external USB for only $90!)
      2. A whole pile of very cool clothing items that could never in a hundred years be found locally. I love my new red leather hat especially!
      3. A series of faux egyptian art items that look incredible as a part of my decor. As a famous man once said, "chicks dig'em" and so do I!
      4. A rare Nina Hagen tape and a rare Einstuerzende Neubauten tape, both of which are nearly impossible to get your hands on, which I was then able to record to .WAV files and burn to CD. Awesome!

      Online auctions are wonderful! I've also sold perhaps $5,000 of old useless junk that I didn't need. But obviously, it wasn't junk to the buyers-- I freed space in my apartment and got cash, they got used items that they didn't want to pay new prices for. Win-win!

      Have I ever been scammed? Twice. First time I tried to buy Mac OS X 10.1 on eBay and instead of the nice retail box in the picture, I got CD-R discs. I was out $100.00. I disputed with VISA and they credited my account. The second time I lost $600.00 trying to buy a digital camera. I got nothing and it seems that many were scammed (I was contacted by the FBI! The seller was somewhere in Tennessee and they had scammed many others, apparently.)

      Am I mad that I've been scammed twice? Perhaps. But compared to buying retail where I live, I'm still way ahead. And the stuff I've been able to buy is much cooler. And when you also account for used items I've been able to turn into cash that would otherwise simply have been given away or worse thrown into a landfill or incinerator, I'm really not behind by any stretch of the imagination. I'm living much better than I could afford to live if eBay didn't exist.

      The key on sites like eBay is to scrutinize the seller's feedback carefully. If you are unsure, simply e-mail them and ask if you can give them a call and talk about it. If you still feel uneasy, don't buy!

  • Use credit cards... (Score:4, Informative)

    by LostCluster ( 625375 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @11:40AM (#4915086)
    Any escrow worth its salt will accept the buyer's payment via credit card. Why is this safer? Because if you don't get the goods, you can call the credit card company for a charge-back. If the escrow is just a scam, they'll be charged-back so many times that Visa and Mastercard will stop working with them, rendering the site useless. Wiring to a bank account, especially an overseas bank account, opens you up to this kind of trouble. If the scammer is completely outside of the USA, there is nothing American law enforcement can do, and third-world countries usually have enough problems that enforcing laws about "don't scam Americans" are not high on their list.
    • Any decently large business worth its beans should be able to accept credit-card payments. Hell, if the local coffee shop can take VISA, I'm pretty sure that a large well-founded escrow service can. If they're only accepting wires or other hard-to-trace methods, people should really clue in that they're probably going to get "escrewed."
      I've only lost money once on ebay, and that was because I tried to get the package shipped without value, and thus couldn't collect insurance when the postman stole it (the seller has a strong rep, so I'm fairly sure it's the postman as I've heard of this happening before). I've had other times when companies tried to hose me, one sent me the wrong part and I rangled with them for refund for 3 months, before getting smart and calling Visa (Visa had a little talk with them, my refund came very quickly after without needing chargeback).

      Visa doesn't like fraudsters, because it hurts their reputation as a safe method of transaction. Every so often, they go out like sharpened stakes and impale a few scammers to set an example. If you're lucky, you can catch them when they're looking for somebody to lynch.
      • "I've had other times when companies tried to hose me, one sent me the wrong part and I rangled with them for refund for 3 months, before getting smart and calling Visa (Visa had a little talk with them, my refund came very quickly after without needing chargeback)."

        I agree that using credit card payment is a smart way of avoiding getting screwed. Whenver I am buying computer hardware at an 'exchange only if defective' shop as opposed to a 'reseller/dealer' that normally deals in credit cards/cheques, I pay with the credit card and eat teh 3% non-cash markup. This way if the seller wants to get sticky about return policies for semi-functional equipment, I can get VISA on their back for charging me without giving me the proper working product.

        Now I have not been burned yet but it is very good for safety compared to handing out hundreds of dollars in cash for hardware.

        • I pay with the credit card and eat teh (sic) 3% non-cash markup

          Did you know that it's actually against the Visa contract to charge the consumer +3% on the purchase? The seller is suppose to eat this charge - I think it was mentioned on an earlier slashdot post/thread.
          • "Did you know that it's actually against the Visa contract to charge the consumer +3% on the purchase? The seller is suppose to eat this charge - I think it was mentioned on an earlier slashdot post/thread."

            I was not aware aof this, but now that I think about it, dealers have a sly way of getting around it.

            If you look carefully at pricelists, they say that the listed prices are marked down 3% for cash purchases. They are not surcharging your for visa, they give you a discount if you pay cash. It's pretty much the same effect, though.

  • check out this list [fakeescrow.com] of naughty, naughty people.

    Paypal sucks too. Don't use them. They aren't secure at all...I almost got robbed, but luckily I sleuthed it in time, and contacted the seller and she refunded my money.
  • I just find it humorous that people would not trust a buyer/seller on eBay because they don't know them - but they will trust an escrow "company" they have never used before just because they have a website.

    Of course there is still the problem of companies that act legitimate for a while and then screw all their customers at once. I seem to recall that happened with a laptop seller recently.
  • Where is the link to the article?

    How do I know that you aren't just making this all up?

  • Most of these fake "escrow" sites seem to have some connection to E-Gold [e-gold.com]. E-gold itself is suspicious; they insist that their users release them from liability, and they seem to be incorporated in the Bahamas. Real financial services do not ask their customers to sign indemnification agreements or to relieve them from liability. If you see an indemnification clause in any financial service agreement, do not agree . Go elsewhere.
  • by feedback - much like /.

    Example: If a seller has less than 35 SELLING feedback, you set eBay to filter his auctions out. If a buyer has less than 23 BUYER feedbacks, same deal.

    Granted, this has nothing to do with escrow (Which I will never use), but certainly could allow you to tailor eBay to your personal comfort level.

    Or, If you have a big ticket item to sell and don't have a huge amount of auctions under your belt, contact a seller who has 1000+ positive feedback and sell the item through them. They get a cut, you get your dough, the buyer feels safer bidding higher. Everybody wins! What a Coun-try! I'll be doing that with my Moog 1p soon.

  • I believe I narrowly avoided this scam a few months ago. While looking for a used BMW M5, I found a deal which seemed 'to good to be true©'. The price was fifteen grand below market value, and the guy selling it was supposedly somewhere in N.Y. After a few weeks of e-mail, and my trying in vain to get the guy to call me in person, I called him out on his ploy...something to the effect of "I cannot go forward without speaking to you in person. Escrow or not. Needless to say I never heard from the guy again, and subsequently the car was no longer listed on cars.com

    What I couldn't figure out while I was in the middle of it, was how the scam worked. While he didn't 'lead' me to an escrow service, I only had my own suspicions regarding how escrow itself worked. If the money wasn't transferred til I recieved the car and okay'd it, it didn't make sense how the guy could profit...However, with the disclosure of scam sites, it is more clear. It is a crap shoot on his end. He hopes that I do not research my escrow options and use a service that he can game.

    BTW, I looked into a number of escrow sites -- e-gold services and such, talk about shady characters...I think I will stick to my local classifieds for anything over a couple of hundred bucks.

  • Another version of this scam (Score:3, Informative)

    by tdrury ( 49462 ) on Wednesday December 18, 2002 @03:49PM (#4917480) Homepage
    Another version of this scam which got posted to the escrow boards on eBay scams the seller. It goes like this:

    When the escrow site gets the buyers payment, they send an email to the seller saying it is okay to ship. However, we all know how easy it is to fake an email. One buyer faked an email that looked like it came from escrow.com and the seller shipped the item (out of the country). Good bye!

    Never, ever, ever trust an email from eBay or escrow.com. They will be the first to tell you this. Both have links on most of their pages alerting you to this. Login into the site manually and confirm status before continuing the transaction.

    This message is mostly for the net-clueless and not the typical slashdot reader.
  • This post really belongs under some of the other top level posts regarding credit cards, but I wanted it at the top level to get more attention to an issue I think many people are not aware of.

    Not all credit card purchases are safe. When a eBay seller asks for _only_ Western Union wire transfer or C2IT, you should be wary. Both of these transactions are billed to your credit card as cash advances and are not subject to credit card fraud protection charge back. YMMV - read your terms and conditions for your credit card.

    I maintain a page of scam auction red flags here:
    Scam Auction Red Flags [ebay.com]

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