The Worst Coders In Washington 427
spooky writes "The American Open Technology Consortium, 'a nonprofit organization of technologists who have joined together to educate lawmakers and regulators about technology -- especially in regards to The Internet' has compiled a list of the lawmakers responsible for eight bad internet laws. They say, 'These bad coders and their backers have done more damage to computing, the Internet and freedom than all the virus authors, spammers and crackers combined', Do you agree? Did they miss anyone?"
thank the GOP for this mess (Score:2, Flamebait)
apply flames here:
Re:thank the GOP for this mess (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:thank the GOP for this mess (Score:4, Interesting)
Whenever someone just selectively grab bills and laws then THEN tries to apply correlations to party, you're going to get a skewed outcome. (It's selective by the shear nature they they picked the "worse" bills, which is still subjective.) And then someone, like you or the parent poster, will come along and, without a thought, say "See!" Look, if they had added prominant copyright bills, the democrat margin would be higher than the current 20% margin. And if Clinton hadn't signed the DCMA or Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act, this would be a voided question.
And you don't even pretend to take into consideration that the overall current representation count is Republican, due to the dominance in the house, which OF COURSE is going to more Republicans being mentioned.
And OF COURSE if campaign donations from special interests continue to be legal, the media companies are going to shower those representatives in a position of getting bills passed, which in the Senate are Democrats, and in the House are Republicans, which is going to FURTHER push it to the Republicans (as they controlled the Senate until the flip of the one rep, control the House, and are in control at the last lawmaking step, the Presidency). Rest assured, if Dems were in power in the House, the special interests would be showering them with money, and more so if Gore had won.
These bad laws have NO POLITICAL ALIGNMENT because neither party has a strict or well-founded policy or issue guidance on them.
The reality is, the parent post is flamebait because voting should not be strict party lines, not even based on money the person receives, but on the issues and past voting record of the House or Senate rep that you have in front of you. And don't even pretend a web page analysis is going to be really all-encompassing or relevant to what occurs in your local races. Hell, this is just the federal level (we've already seen state laws creating an effect).
Finally, the fact is, both parties screw you. You have to look at WHO in the party does what. If you vote on party lines, all you do is push party alignment on the issue. I don't want another NRA/Republican alignment. If "techies" (what the fuq is a techie really, and when did they all suddenly vote liberal?) were one and did all vote liberal, all the special interests will simply fund Republicans, and vice versa. Don't help them align. Vote on the issues and the voting record, and look at campaign donations to then add relevance to your decision.
Re:thank the GOP for this mess (Score:5, Insightful)
Content-wise it's interesting not just becaue the poster knows his/her sh*t, but also because it highlights an approaching conundrum - lawmakers all over the US of A love to tout the technology sector as this great engine of economic growth, but clearly have very little understanding of how their actions affect the climate for the tech sector. It's not as simple as tax or don't tax, regulate or don't regulate in tech, and that confounds the parties' standard platitudes. So as the parent eloquently points out, there is not yet alignment of the parties with a particular stance on technology legislation, a state which begs techies to step into politics.
As for this:
Your cynical attitude towards politics in general prompts me to think that you're American (as am I), and it makes me sad. Of course both parties screw you, at the same time as their handing you manna. That's how power and politics have worked since the dawn of time. The military-industrial complex (definitely bipartisan, everyone wants a a lab or a military base in their district) begat DARPA and university network research begat the internet. At the same time, the military-industrial complex strengthed corporate hegemony which begat absurdly restrictive views of ideas as physical property begat DMCA. All brought to you by the same two parties, and quite likely the same cohort of politicians, or at least their proteges.
Interesting idea that well informed voters will help depolarize politics. I hope it's true, and I certainly support your claim that one should vote on issues, not a party line. I think a few more parties, a few new estates, like the "mythical" techies (who have a reputation for peppering their speech with slogans like "I hate stupidity", and fancying themselves independent thinkers), and perhaps some refined approaches to things like regulation will also help reduce some of this polarization.
To finish my other point... as a cultural milestone, these posts also interesting - just glancing through the responses shows that the site has succeeded in attracting politically knowledgeable people who have learned about tech, or vice-versa. I only hope that this crossover continues, and carries into other kinds of issues, like poverty, equality, and the environment.
Re:thank the GOP for this mess (Score:3, Funny)
Personally, I believe that any politician that recieves these bribes should be made to wear a badge for each of the companies/groups that made a donation. Then you will always know where they are coming from.
"Senator Smith was brought to you this evening by AOL, suppliers of Internet access & pop music, and Shell Oil, screwing the Arabs so you can drive SUVs" ;-)
Re:thank the GOP for this mess (Score:3, Insightful)
Like you're one to vote on the issues with that party line.
Not all "techies" are Democrats. Sheesh. And the reality is, this is not a partisan issue, no matter how much you want to make it be. That was, after all, part of the point of the AOTC listing. There are reps from both sides of the fence; they're all getting paid off.
But, partisans be partisan. Oooo, ooo, economy--some say, "see, Bush's fault!" Reality is, Bushie ain't doing much now (I think he should deregulate markets more, but noooo) for future improvement and present perception, but the current economic climate is not his "fault" in a cause-effect relationship. Heck, given most bubbles were from the Clinton era with a Republican congress, both didn't incite much help or further development. Economists have said again and again that what the present adminitration does in the current term has little effect on the current term.
Then again, the right wing conspiracists are probably all saying the media is run by liberals and the economy is tanking because all the rich leftists pulled their money out of the markets causing the current climate (and hence forcing the political climate change). And someone's probably saying that he'd bet those lousy liberals colluded with the west coast dock workers too!!!
Meanwhile, the left wingers are probably saying that the lower interest rates favor businesses, although it probably favors the housing market even more such that more folks are buying homes (and conversely argued, getting screwed because of generally rising property taxes which they shell out in full whether they have a loan or buy outright).
Lovely this world of politics. I'll vote on the races, not the party line. The party line is what causes alignments to occur between politicans and groups (i.e. special interests), so I'll vote on the issues, hoping that in the chaos of a mixed political body, it'll be more difficult for such "legal limits over free market competition alignments" to occur.
Re:thank the GOP for this mess (Score:5, Insightful)
All Clinton.
Re:thank the GOP for this mess (Score:5, Insightful)
And which party was pushing the most for these corporate welfare bills? Do you think it was the Democrats? Seriously?
Just because Clinton didn't have a perfect 100% voting record doesn't mean we shouldn't give him credit for the 90% record he did have. Compared to our current President, who seems willing to destroy America's freedoms in order to "save" it, he was a strongly positive influence.
I'm just sorry so many Americans are so inattentive to the issues, they allow their precious liberties to be whittled away.
Prez CAN'T veto a bill passed by voice vote (Score:5, Informative)
Who signed DMCA into law again?
President Clinton could not have prevented the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act [pineight.com] or the Digital Millennium Copyright Act [pineight.com] from becoming federal law in the United States. Both bills passed the House and Senate by "unanimous consent", which means that there wasn't even enough opposition to force a roll call vote (at least 20 percent), and each house voted on the bills by voice (AYE, NO, the ayes have it). Such a voice vote implies at least 81 percent support in each house.
If the President vetoes a bill, it goes back to the House and Senate for a roll-call vote, and if each house has 67 percent support for a bill, the bill passes over the President's veto. Thus, whether or not Clinton signed either of the bills has no bearing on anything important.
Guess you don't read Slashdot (Score:2, Insightful)
Anyway, "all you techies", don't judge a person by his or her political party. See what they stand for.
Not so fast (Score:5, Informative)
Representative Howard Berman's (D-Cal.) P2P Bill
This virulent Trojan Horse, written by Senator Ernest "Fritz" Hollings (D-NC)
President Clinton signed into law a new "sequel" to the unconstitutional Communications Decency Act.
DMCA co-sponsored by Mr. CONYERS(D-IN), and Mr. FRANK (D-Mass)
If anything, Democrats and liberals are just as much a part....
Re:thank the GOP for this mess (Score:2)
Go ahead! (Score:3, Insightful)
The only real change in the system will come about if people vote third party.
Two Words: Duverge's Law (Score:5, Insightful)
Lets assume that in the first ever election in a district there are three parties, named A, B, and C, and A is liberal, B is moderate leaning liberal, and C is conservative. Results come in and A recieves 30%, B 30%, and C 40%. The canidate from C will then have won. Come next election, because A and B have similar intrests, they will comprimise so their common intrests can be expressed, and some of their individual ones can as well. Then, assuming that there are no major changes in the electorate between the two elections, the new proto-A & B party-D will have 60%, and will defeat C, with its 40%.
A third party on either side of the political spectrum will only serve to marganalize the the larger party, as we saw in Flordia (which is the most prominent example I think) during the 2000 presidental election. If Nader had not been running, his votes would have presumable gone to Gore, as he is closest to Nader ideologically. Gore would have won, and we'd be in a marginally different situation today.
Re:Ignoring Canada and everything else. (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, Gore is not a solution, but Jello Biafra isn't exactly a voice of moderation either. Canidates, especially in presidential, must campaign on incredibly moderate views as most of america is moderate, the fringes are only important in primaries and fund raising. And I voted for Bush, I only mentioned Gore to illustrate the only way a third party can get their prefrences expressed in a system with SMPDs.
They know what they're doing. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:They know what they're doing. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:They know what they're doing. (Score:4, Insightful)
What happens then if the CBDTPA comes up for debate then?
It doesn't matter how much money the EFF has, they won't be able to run an issue ad.
Complain all you want about laws that limit code as speech, but don't stand and cheer laws that limit speech as speech.
stevens (Score:5, Informative)
Re:stevens (Score:3, Interesting)
He never has, and he never will. In a small (population-wise) state like Alaska, it really pays to have as much seniority as the Alaskan congressional delegation does. We've had the same congressional delegation as long as I can remember... 20 years at least.
Full disclosure: I'm an Alaskan, registered voter, and I vote Republican (I consider myself anarchist-come-libertarian-but-still -very-pragmatic
Did they miss anyone? (Score:5, Funny)
(an obvious choice, I know, but still true
Re:Did they miss anyone? (Score:2)
Chicken and the Egg (Score:4, Insightful)
I always wonder about articles like this. Who is worse, the people who abuse privileges/freedoms, or the people who limit the privileges/freedoms to curb the abuse.
Maybe if so many script kiddies/ warez'ers/ napsterites hadn't gone so fscking overboard downloading/spamming/sharing, the legislations wouldn't have any backing. It would be too much bother for so little.
But, unfortunately, the masses found out, and spoiled for the rest of us.
Re:Chicken and the Egg (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Chicken and the Egg (Score:2)
A more accurate comparison to draw would people advocating a second prohibition in order to deal with drunk driving.
Re:Chicken and the Egg (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Chicken and the Egg (Score:5, Insightful)
Who is worse, the people who abuse privileges/freedoms, or the people who limit the privileges/freedoms to curb the abuse?
Answer: They're both bad.
Yes, people who use their computer power to subvert copyright are bad. They ought to be punished accordingly, but certainly not punished for exercising fair use doctrines.
But that obnoxious behavior by various individuals is no justification for bad blanket legislation that stomps on liberties in an attempt to curtail bad behavior.
It is just as irresponsible for legislators to pass computer laws like these as it is for them to solve problems such as theft and burglary by mandating a police state and requiring everyone to present an internal passport on demand and to show signed receipts for all goods in their possession.
Of course in the U.S., with the way things are going with the "Patriot" Act, perhaps there is some consistency there...
Re:Chicken and the Egg (Score:3, Insightful)
Technology + legislation is a dangerous combination, because it allows automatic enforcement of laws against people.
Compare the process of issuing a speeding fine in the 60s (policeman chases down the person, makes him stop, gives ticket) to today (camera: *click*, infringement notice arrives in the mail 5-10 working days later).
Copyright laws were acceptable in 'the old days' because each abuse had to be discovered individually. Now, bots can send out infringement notices to thousands of websites without a single human interaction. Things get even scarier when you consider the TCPA/Palladium platform, with punishments (ie. infringing material deleted) being potentially handed out automatically.
Online rights require a set of rules that are more flexible, not more rigid. We just haven't worked out what they should be yet.
Re:Chicken and the Egg (Score:3, Insightful)
That's easy, the ones that attempt to limit privileges/freedom. Less freedom is always bad. Freedom comes with a cost, people will abuse it. Just because someone abuses freedom doesn't mean I don't deserve the right charish my freedom and love every minute of it.
I never understand people who wish to remove freedom under the guise of protecting it. If the freedom no longer exists, there's nothing to protect.
No one ever said living in a free society would be perfection and trouble-free. Every once in a while some jackass will say something that pisses you off, you can either some something back or go home and cry about it - you can't take away their right to say it though.
Freedom for everyone or freedom for no one.
Re:Chicken and the Egg (Score:5, Insightful)
Now look at the DMCA. This was again intended to curb distribution of pirated material, but it does so by making it illegal to carry out activities that often lead to illegal distribution. This again would be fine if the only reason to do what it makes illegal was to pirate things, but that's not the case. The DMCA was an *overreaction* to the problem of piracy, restricting rights that are not related to any wrong activity. For instance, I cannot use a clip from a DVD in a presentation I am doing--something that SHOULD be protected under fair use laws--without breaking the DVD's encryption, and thus violating the DMCA.
Overreacting to the problem in this example was just as bad as the problem they were trying to stop. This is even more true in the case of the DMCA as it would have only taken one small clause to limit its coverage to further stopping piracy. Just add a "This act is by no means meant to limit fair use rights; such use should not result in the penalties set forth in this act." That should suffice.
Re:Chicken and the Egg (Score:2)
But, unfortunately, the masses found out, and spoiled for the rest of us.
It is debatable whether or not people have actually "stolen" anything by downloading/spamming/sharing, etc. Most peoples' intuition with respect to theft relies on a material object being taken. It is debatable whether or not copying a piece of information (in the most general of cases) and disseminating it (without the consent of it's author, and with/without payment in exchange) should be a crime in the first place. It so happens that theft in the physical world of objects and property works to the disadvatage of many people - and so it is rightfully considered "theft". However, it remains to be shown whether or not some civilization-wide practical disadvantage comes about through unauthorized, unpaid for, file copying and sharing.
Before blaming "the masses", maybe one should look at whose interests are being served - who is ruining what? Is it the case that downloading this stuff creates a horrible problem for our society? Or is it the case that it does nothing, or possibly makes things better?
What was ruined? If you are referring to your ability to download copyrighted material, then the blame lands squarely on the legislators who wrote the laws, the courts who upheld them, the police who enforced them, and the companies and individuals who lobbied/paid for this legislation.
Re:Chicken and the Egg (Score:2)
Hmmm... interesting question and responses. Just out of curiosity, how many people support gun control? If, say, the US gov't were to propose a law banning semi-automatic rifles (like the one used by the DC/Maryland sniper), I wonder how many
Nope, the other Washington, kids (Score:5, Funny)
partisan hit piece? (Score:2, Insightful)
Except, of course, that each bill needed a majority vote to pass, and each was signed into law by Bill Clinton, the only person that could have single-handledly stopped them.
Those that voted for the bills (many of whom are democrats) deserve just as much blame as those that authored or introduced them.
What a surprise ... (Score:3, Funny)
What? Washington DC? Where the heck's that?
The list (Score:2)
The Worst Coders In Washington (Score:4, Funny)
too bad (Score:3, Insightful)
sigh
with a public presence like this, it's just one more well-intentioned group blowing a lot of air without making a sound...
Yes, it does!! (Score:3, Funny)
I don't know why they are complaining so much, I thought Episode 1 TPM was much worse.
Quick Summary (Score:3, Interesting)
74 - Republican
19 - Democrat
Consider yourself informed. We live with a two-party system (mostly). One of them is more consumer friendly than the other. Vote accordingly.
Re:Quick Summary (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember that the DMCA was passed almost unanimously by both Democrats and Republicans, as was the 1998 Copyright Extension Act; likewise with almost all other draconian anti-consumer intellectual property laws, and digital laws.
Re:Quick Summary (Score:2)
Re:Quick Summary (Score:4, Interesting)
However, telling a democrat lawmaker that a law is anti-consumer garners much more of a concerned response than telling a republican lawmaker the same thing.
But, in the end, it's all about the money. Which is why I'm planning to move to another country...
Re:Quick Summary (Score:2)
What? You think that money doesn't play a role in politics in other countries? That's hilarious.
Most of the people that I have seen complaining about U.S. politics are folks that never bother to vote. People that vote realize that there is a lot more to a successful campaign than spreading money around. Don't believe me, get involved in your local political scene.
Re:Quick Summary (Score:3, Interesting)
*cough* *cough* *cough*
What?
Don't confuse rabid Clinton hating by Republicans with approval by Democrats. The fact that we don't hallucinate murders or hold him responsible for the criminal actions of conservative corporate CEO's -- as Republicans have -- doesn't mean we actually like him much.
Re:Quick Summary (Score:3, Insightful)
rez@service01:~$ cat t | grep R- | wc -l
74
rez@service01:~$ cat t | grep D- | wc -l
19
(lazy mans way of counting)
They don't lie. I'm so sick of everyone pissing and moaning about Gore's infamous "I invented the internet". Why? Because its not a direct quote, he's never said it and not a single republican whose ever quoted it infront of me could come up with proof its a direct quote. I even saw it used on slashdot today... How shameful.
Yes, Micheal Moore has it right: Democrats and Republicans are essentially the same. They're two groups who control our government with the backing of big business. The difference is the extent they're willing to sell their souls to industry. And whilst near 80% of the republicans sold out on thw issue of internet rights (free speech, fair use etc) only 20% of the democrats did. So maybe I am a troll, maybe this is flamebait but still - the numbers don't lie!
Re:Quick Summary (Score:2)
This Democrat didn't think he was the gift of god. I thought he was a dangerously immature jerk who sabotaged liberalism in general by smearing it with his outrageously stupid public behavior. His primary contribution to history was making Rush Limbaugh seem reasonable by comparison. Now we're stuck with a public that has swallowed the Prime Directive of the GOP: "Having lots of money makes people virtuous and trustworthy."
Re:Quick Summary (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Quick Summary (Score:5, Insightful)
Voting along party lines is only for idiots, and will invariably produce undesireable results.
You can only vote along party lines if you agree with *everything* that a party stands for; even then, its not safe, because many Republicans deviate from the Republian platform, likewise with many Democrats. I consider myself Libertarian, but that doesn't mean I can just vote for any Libertarian who runs...why? Because there's some thing in the Libertarian platform I disagree with, and I don't know which tenants of the Libertarian platform someone is going to stick to.
The only way to vote intelligently is to research the candidates thoroughly and decide if you like what they stand for, or if you don't. You'll never find a candidate who you agree with completely; the idea is to vote for the one who's positions and actions are the closest to those you have or you'd take.
Voting along party lines for Democrats might be good in one state, regarding digital freedoms and intellectual property. But in Utah, it might elect Orin Hatch -- a pro-Napster, pro-technology, anti-IP (in its current form) Senator (R) -- out of office.
The best thing to do is to figure out what each candidates positions are on various issues. Attention should be paid to what they say they will do, but you should take that with a grain of salt. More important, is how did they vote on various bills. Firstly, look at their attendance record for voting on bills. If they're absent on half of them, they're not good Senators or Representatives. For those they did vote on, did they vote as you would have? Make a simple list like such. +1 is assigned for voting as you would voe, -1 for voting against your wishes. Add appropriate weights for things which you consider more important.
It is the kind of party-lines thinking that the parent advocates which is a major problem in our system, and why the wrong people get elected; its also part of why third parties -- though usually being superior -- are kept off the voting ballot and rarely elected.
I used to think like the parent, when I was a teenager. I thought of myself as a Republican. However, as I grew older (hence smarter), I realized that I disagreed with the Republican platform on many things which were important to me (i.e., abortion, prostitution, drugs, stripping, euthanasia, gay rights, and religion).
Don't be locked into the "I'm a Dem/Repub" mentality. Determine what your position is on the issues, and vote for (s)he who's closer to that position by in what they say and what they've done.
The Party Line (Score:2)
When a Republican, Teddy Roosevelt was once attempting to give a speech, but was repeatedly interrupted by a vociferous opponent shouting "I'm a Democrat." Roosevelt lost patience and deviated from his text to ask the heckler, "Why are you a Democrat?"
"Because my father was a Democrat and his father was a Democrat."
"If your father was a jackass and his father was a jackass, would you want to be a jackass?"
"No, I'd be a Republican."
No man is an island (Score:2)
This is especially true this year. Control of the Senate may hinge on a single election, and you have to trade off the consequences of voting for the "good" candidate, but putting the "bad" party in control of the Senate, vs. the "bad" candidate and putting the "good" party in control.
Re:No man is an island (Score:2)
Re:Quick Summary (Score:5, Interesting)
Consider yourself informed.
<soapbox>
A Libertarian would never pass any law to stifle the Internet, and would never let the government pass protectionist laws for corporate lobbies.
</soapbox>
Just a note, John Warner is facing Libertarian Jacob Hornberger in Virginia in tomorrow's elections. John Warner is going to win, no Democrat is running.
This is a good chance to show your support for Libertarians if you are a Democrat, or a Republican, but you agree with what the Libertarians are saying about a lot of things. Your vote will almost definitely not change the outcome of the election, but rather than not voting in the race, why not send the politicians a message that they need to wake up and start listening to the people, or they risk losing to Libertarians.
A 10% Libertarian vote in this election will do just that. So hey, nothing to lose, just do it!
Re:Quick Summary (Score:3, Insightful)
A Libertarian would never pass any law to promote the internet, and would never let the government spend funding on such a venture. As such, if the world were in the hands of the libertarians, we wouldn't have had one at all until it became so obvious and cheap that companies would have put one together themselves.
Which means, it still might not be there.
Ya, ya, ya... the Dems' invented the internet (Score:2)
However, I have to take issue this comment in the assumption that these bills are partisan and party driven. Not so. Since, in the eyes of washington, these are minor issues that registered voters don't care enough about to swing their vote, these bills and actions are up to the highest [opensecrets.org] bidder. True, you will find certain types of people, committees and companies tend to have a favorite flavor of congress critter, but that doesn't really make this partisan.
What I'm really saying is, don't vote with your party; vote with your mind. Do your research [vote-smart.org] about what you care about. Look up who their legislative advisor is - get to know him/her. Drop a $1,000 donation to the ones you like, and I your voice with DEFINATELY get heard, and you WILL get to actually talk to the congressman or any memeber of their staff. Ya, I know it's all corrupt and wrong, but politicial donations can be a good insurance policy sometimes.
Re:Quick Summary (Score:2)
Total: D:19 R:74
Sponsored more than one:2 R:7
Sponsored the DMCA D:3 R:7
itpotm D:9 R:9
watc D:11 R:69
If I haven't made any mistakes, You can see that the republican party is mostly responsible for watc bills, while the Dems are more responsible for the itpotm bills, in fact, given a Republican majority in the House, the Dems have more than their fair share. I believe this is because the media centers are primarily democratic.
OTOH, Republicans are more responsible for the DMCA, which is the most egregious of them all.
Just cat the list of reps to the program to get a tally, if the program gets confused it will stop.
#!/usr/bin/perl -n
#Make sure you don't put in any extra space
# or the program will quit
1;
$party=$1; $b=$2
($2>1) && $morethan1{$party}++ ;
(/P2P/||/DMCA/||/CBDTPA/)&&( $MPAA{$party}++ );
(/CIPA/||/COPA/||/CDA/)&&($watc{$party}++)
END{
print "bad D:".$foo{D}." R:".$foo{R}."\n";
print "very bad D:".$morethan1{D}." R:".$morethan1{R}."\n";
print"dmca D:".$dmca{D}." R:".$dmca{R}."\n";
print"itpotm D:".$MPAA{D}." R:".$MPAA{R}."\n";
print"watc D:".$watc{D}." R:".$watc{R}."\n";
}
American ./ers unite (Score:3, Insightful)
No offense to those not US citizens. In fact, use my state (LA)'s motto (vote early, and vote often), and vote too, esp. if you are dead!
Re:American ./ers unite (Score:2)
It usually comes down to how much money is involved.
It's all about the Benjamins.
Internet Laws by Politicians (Score:4, Interesting)
Besides that, I feel that there is too much trust when it comes to the internet. I don't trust media companies, why should they have the right to hack into anyone's computer? I really hope that people are able to keep ridiculus laws from being enacted that are only made by the politicians as ways of gathering support (and money) when they are so far reaching (As the article says). Well. I guess I agree with them.
Re:Internet Laws by Politicians (Score:3, Interesting)
It is the nature of politicians: they don't know a lot of stuff (granted, in the grand scheme of things neither do I, but I'm not empowered to pass legislation directly).
That's why I love gridlock. Let the bastards argue all day and all night. The less laws they pass the better.
What about the good ones? (Score:5, Insightful)
one that i can identify is Orrin Hatch. i hear he is very distrustful of the MPAA, RIAA, and others who want to use their lobby money to preserve their dinosaur business models.
Re:What about the good ones? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What about the good ones? (Score:5, Informative)
It's nice that you know what Hatch would do if he could. Can you also tell what I am thinking?
Hatch supposedly has changed his mind about IP law, as he sees the media companies as being way too greedy about the whole thing.
http://www.cluebot.com/articles/00/10/12/2055227.
Re:What about the good ones? (Score:5, Interesting)
This is a very salient point, that (happily) some people in power are beginning to understand, but people in the media appear to have a hard time grasping
That being said, can anyone come up with a list of "good guys", besides Rick Boucher and Zoe Lofgren?
Re:What about the good ones? (Score:2)
He's a smart guy who seems to really understand the repercussions of the bills in question.
He's also very conservative and very religious.
Don't just vote for the guy because he doesn't like the RIAA. Vote for him because you agree with his views.
IMO, one of the best guys in Congress, Paul Wellstone, died recently.
-B
these aren't all laws (Score:2, Insightful)
These bad coders and their backers have done more damage to computing, the Internet and freedom than all the virus authors, spammers and crackers combined.
Note that these are not all laws. Some are just stupid ideas that are perhaps a sign of things to come if we don't do put up a fight. Well actually they are all stupid ideas, but only a couple are stupid laws.
VOTE AGAINST THE BUMS ON TUESDAY !!! (Score:3, Informative)
Throw the bums out !!! They do not get it. They only understand bribes. They must be thrown out! Vote "no" on your local incumbent.
Missing laws... (Score:4, Informative)
Of course, those two laws and those actually passed on the original list were all signed by which President?
Most of them have been kicked out already (Score:2, Troll)
Considering the amount of entrenched incumbency for Congressmen and Senators, that's a pretty good amount that have been kicked out of office already.
Remember this when you're at the polls, too: the remaining Congressmen are about 90% Republican.
Vote Democrat this November -- if not for them, for the poor children who are starving in the streets, the racially discriminated, the handicapped, and the gun violence victims.
donkeys are as bad as the elephants (Score:2, Insightful)
If you are left/liberal, concider voting Green. If you are right/conservative, concider voting Libertarian. If you aren't sure where you are, don't like those choices or there isn't an alternative candidate running in the race you are voting, vote against the incumbant.
As for me, I'm voting Green where there's a Green candidate, Libertarian if there isn't a Green, and against the incumbant if neither a Green or Libertarian is running. If there's no Green, Libertarian, or incumbant to vote against, I'll vote for myself on a write in ballot.
Re:Most of them have been kicked out already (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, I ran over a few on my way to Republican Party headquarters, just for sport. Because they're all over the place you know.
Then I listened to an address by the white Secretary of State and white National Security Adviser.
Then I went up a ramp for the handicapped from that hideos ADA signed into law by that well known Democrat, Bush. Curse him!
Then I drove into Southeast DC and left my vehicle unlocked and jingled my change without fear because guns are outlawed there, so no outlaws have guns.
But fortunately the Senator from Disney is a Republican, so I felt wonderfully secure in my allegience to the RIAA and MPAA.
It must be nice to know that a vague collection of competing interests just happens to be morally pure as the wind driven snow. Wait, you were saying vote Libertarian, right?
Sheesh.
How did this proganda get modded so high? (Score:2, Insightful)
It is quite obvious that the democrats are too short sighted on fiscal issues and republicans are too controlling on social issues. Sadly both are influenced by whoever gives them the most money(Few exceptions...McCain,Feingold). Both parties tend to oversimplify the issues. Nothing short of the rise of different parties will rid this nation duopoly on government. How in the world is it possible that the population for the most part only have two strains of political thought?
Do not vote Democrat just for the sake of voting Democrat. It would be too ridiculous.
Re: Most of them have been kicked out already (Score:5, Insightful)
"If not for them, for the poor children who are starving in the streets [who would have more money if the Democrats weren't raping their parents and potential employers with taxes and the social security Ponzi scheme], the racially discriminated [such as those protestant, white males who, through no fault of their own, can't get into college thanks to racist Affirmative Action plans], the handicapped [like me (I'm hearing impaired) who want the satisfaction of doing things for themselves instead of having forced charity (aka "welfare") take care of them], and the gun violence victims [who died because the gun control lobby took the guns away from the victims and they were unable to defend themselves]."
See? We can all play this stupid political rhetoric game. How about we vote for politicians based on the issues that are important to US, instead of to SexyKellyOsbourne?
Me? I'm going to vote for the politicians that want government to adhere to the Constitution and are gravely concerned about the government ever taking any right away from me to live my life the way I see fit, however immoral or environmentally unconscious it might be:
Is that politician going to vote to take away my right to use software the way I want? -- no vote
Is that politician going to take my money and give it to you so you can feed your starving kids when I don't know you? -- no vote
Is that politician going to make it illegal for me to light up a joint in the privacy of my own home? -- no vote
Is that politician going to take away my second ammendment right to own an AR-15 to blow a burglar's head off if he comes into my house? -- no vote
Is that politician going to prevent me from saying whatever I want on my website? -- no vote
Is that politician going to prevent drilling for oil by environmentally-conscious, high-tech American companies so we can be forced to by oil from countries that use rickety ships and could care less about the environment? -- no vote
Those are the issues that are important to me. Should you vote the way I do? Hell no! Vote for the politicians that represent your interests the best.
from beyond the grave... (Score:5, Funny)
Rep. Sonny Bono (R-CA 44th district) 1 bill $0.
someone from the music industry is blamed for sponsoring legislation from beyond the grave, and received $0 in funding for his work. even more funny, there are people on the list BELOW him!! politicians get less done that dead people... proves the old saying, if pro is the opposite of con, what is congress the opposite of?
Bad law, bad! (Score:5, Insightful)
Some of these laws were passed for lobbyists (DCMA, P2P...) and other to please or pander to the public (CDA, COPA, CDA...). I think some of them are passed by lawmakers knowing full well they're unconstitutional; they take the credit and the courts take care of the bogus law (the flag burning statue, for example).
But on all of them the accountability is clear, and voters should hold their representatives accountable. A list like this helps a lot; the problem is getting folks to look at it and the alphabet soup of statutes. An honest lawmaker will do that pn your behlaf, hence the idea of representation.
Potent is the idea that special interest "buy" legislation through their contributions. Even when the contribution doesn't affect the lawmaker's judgment -- for example, and NRA donation to an avowedly pro-gun lawmaker -- the appearance of impropriety is terrible. And the more common abuse is the laws you don't see, that are quietly killed. Hence the need for even stricter campaign finance reform, within the limits of the 1st Amendment. Strangely Alericans have been quicker to embrace measures like term limits rather than the stream of money that pollutes the debate and most benefits those without compunction at taking it.
Re:Bad law, bad! (Score:2)
As much as I might despise the Family Research Council, I also acknowledge their right to directly influence the body politic. They certainly have a more legitimate role than any limited liability entity (corporation).
Any grassroots organization made of up of individual kooks, is still composed of individual citizens. That should demand more respect than any corporate lobby.
If anything, the NRA model is probably something to emulate rather than scorn.
AmeriNet? (Score:5, Interesting)
And don't try telling me that other countries try to control it too - for two reasons:
We, on the other hand, want to control what everyone else in the world does with the Internet. We wait for them to come to our shores for some conference and arrest them. And all this, after feeding illegal porn into those other countries.
Our politicians must realize that the Internet is what it is today only because it is globally accessible. Attempting to regulate it on our own is in very bad faith!
Re:AmeriNet? (Score:2)
Thank goodness that with Dubya in office, we won't have to worry about what other countries think any more. After we take over and annex Iraq as the 51st state (which will carry approximately 45 electoral votes), we can start on the other Axis of Evil countries.
My only real concern is what happens when Saudi Arabia, the 65th state, provides more in campaign contributions than the entertainment industry. Ho ho, we should see some interesting laws being offered up about the Internet then!
Sith Coders? (Score:2, Funny)
show up tomorrow!!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Does anybody have any suggestions, I am looking for NYC/NY State. Any good pages that will give stances and voting histories?
GO OUT AND VOTE TOMORROW!!! But please, do a little research first. 10 mins online will probably put you in the top half of informed voters.
ej
This crap will keep right on going down... (Score:5, Informative)
Personally, I expect that the US high-tech community strategy is going to be to keep on bleating while it's still possible to do so and watch the leading edge of technological innovation depart for locations all over the world. I include in the bleating community the entrepreneurs who made it big before the bottom fell out of dot.com . When they realize they can't do business here, they'll simply relocate to somewhere where they can. Or retire.
If the US loses high technology, this will be simply due to the lack of leadership in the political wars. As I see it, we've got an army ready to march and no general staff and no reasonable prospect of finding one.
The mystery revealed (Score:5, Insightful)
What does the startup funding needs to be spent on? Mainly infrastructure and professionals. We can't depend on volunteers to come forward with the right expertise, the expertise largely doesn't exist in our community. We can't expect people to do the jobs we need full-time ... forever to have done without paying them to do it.
To start with, not necessarily in this order, what's needed is:
- A DC office in a "good" area. Among other things, to get the message across to politicians that the organization is for real.
- Top bracket political lobbyists. When the organization is legally ready to collect and disburse contributions, we need people who know what they're doing to go and who are known to Capitol Hill and tell the politicians what they need to do for us to get our support.
- A Website capable of handling lots of traffic.
- A high-traffic web-to-fax gateway of the sort the ACLU, NRA, etc. has to allow us to communicate with our Congresscritters and the White House via point-and-click on issues of interest to the community.
- Legal professionals to navigate the intricacies of registering as a Federal PAC and to comply with state and federal law on political fundraising and spending.
- Political organizers / campaign consultants with at least real state-level experience. The organization is going to have to mobilize our community when it needs to be. Get our people to sign up for the mailing list so we know when Congress needs to be contacted, get our people into the field to volunteer for the political campaigns of our friends, make campaign commercials to help our friends and nail our enemies, etc., etc., etc.
- Staff to analyze new legislation and figure out what's of major interest to us, to make sure the e-mail and snailmail gets answered, to make sure that current information goes up on the Website and mailing list. This must be run by someone with relevant experience.
- A merchant credit card account capable of handling lots of small donations.
- A video production facility capable of broadcast-grade work if this can be fit into the budget.
This must be done before a single dollar is raised to help or fight a political candidate, before a single fax for or against a bill is sent, and this list is hardly complete.I don't think the problem is lack of interest, I think the problem is that... you're angry about CBDTPA. Without a credible organization that's ready to help our political friends (and given serious contribution money available, I guarantee we can make friends in Congress) and attack our political enemies that you can give money to, who will tell you who our political friends are so you can vote for them or volunteer to work for them, who will send you e-mail to let you know that it's time to hit the fax gateway to tell your Congresscritter how you want her to vote, just what the hell can you do other than to bitch and moan in places like this? Start a GeekPAC without funding or the knowhow needed to be effective? Write your Congresscritter a letter without a multi-kilobuck check enclosed?
The people with the money would rather spend it on wiring their houses for home entertainment as earlier articles here have discussed and invest in projects which probably can't be completed in the USA if laws and regulations under discussion become real.
I know where many of the professionals mentioned above can be found, a fact that doesn't really do either me or us a whole lot of good without the funding to put them to work.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
So there they are (Score:4, Informative)
Oh, so these are the clowns who got payed $1,400,777 to cripple technology.
1. Rep. Charles (Chip) Pickering (R-MS 3rd district) 3 bills $230,900
DMCA, COPA, CIPA
4. Rep. Bill Paxon (R-NY 27th district) 2 bills $200,938
DMCA, COPA
5. Rep. Howard L. Berman (D-CA 26th district) 2 bills $212,991
DMCA, P2P Piracy Prevention Bill
7. Rep. Howard Coble (R-NC 6th district) 2 bills $114,747
DMCA, P2P Piracy Prevention Bill
16. Rep. Henry J. Hyde (R-IL 6th district) 1 bill $83,500
DMCA
31. Rep. Mary Bono (R-CA 44th district) 1 bill $76,604
DMCA
41. Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA 4th district) 1 bill $55,500
DMCA
65. Rep. John Jr. Conyers (D-MI 14th district) 1 bill $99,110
DMCA
75. Rep. Bill McCollum (R-FL 8th district) 1 bill $326,487
DMCA
91. Rep. Sonny Bono (R-CA 44th district) 1 bill $0
DMCA
problem can be easily solved (Score:2, Funny)
He did invent the internet, right?
Time to Vote (Score:3, Insightful)
As a resident in D.C., I have no voting representation in either the house or the senate (our one delegate can vote in committee in the house - whoopie.)
So vote one for the technies for me!
Support Voting Rights for DC [dcvote.org]
I'm going to make my own bill. (Score:2, Funny)
Out of date list (Score:3, Informative)
The tone of the article (Score:3, Insightful)
Does anyone else think that the AOTC might have a better chance of getting their point across if the article didn't read like something straight out of Conspiracy Theory? I expected some insight, some indepth discussion about WHY each bill was bad and WHAT chilling effects on various technology areas it might have. Instead, I got FUD. And, no matter how well-intentioned, FUD == FUD.
This is a fine example... (Score:2)
... which shows that democracy as it is (not just in the US, I would not be surprised if we Europeans would havce to endure the same things as well in a few years) has horribly failed due to human incompetence and greed. I hope for you Americans that every dumb law will be dropped for something fair to the people, the monopolies and the goverment itself.
What should EU high-tech advocates do? (Score:5, Insightful)
The UK RIP, Council of Europe Cybercrime Treaty, and EU support for American DMCA law demostrates that even with the removal of major corporations from the political campaign funding process, EU politicians are just as capable of stark idiocy as that which US politicians have been paid off to commit. The bad laws you fear are already on the way via pressure from the USA. The good news is that EU governments are heading towards Open Source, which means they aren't necessarily fanatically opposed to good ideas.
The EU, among other places, has an opportunity to seize technological and incidentally, military leadership from the USA in the long run, by simply refusing to pass bad anti-technology laws because the US government and entertainment industry and Religious Right wants them passed.
Getting politicians to do nothing shouldn't be all that difficult. If I were in the EU and trying to get politicians to refrain from passing bad laws on technology and the Internet, I'd be asking questions like:
"Why does [insert your country's name here] need to pass a law which only gives advantage to the USA entertainment industry? Isn't it more important to protect our high-tech industries from them?"
"If America is bent on giving up its high tech leadership with laws like [insert bad US law that your nation seems to be trying to copy] shouldn't you be supporting our high-tech industry by not imitating the worst ideas of Washington, DC? Do you want us to have to buy leading-edge high tech from China, Taiwan, and India in the future? Why should we level the playing field for America when its problems are of its own making?"
Use another port for p0rn. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Use another port for p0rn. (Score:5, Insightful)
Because it is censorship and violates the first amendment. I am certain that Pat Robertson's definition of "inappropriate material" would be somewhat different from mine.
Here's a novel idea for ensuring that it's impossible for your children to view inappropriate material: monitor what they do, watch, and participate in. Or simply turn off the computer and take the cord away if you can't monitor them. This does not need to be legislated.
Americans have this strange notion that everything is the government's responsibility. The government must keep my children safe IN MY OWN HOME, the government must ensure that my home does not catch fire, the government must ensure that it's impossible for me to do something incredibly stupid with my money, the government must ensure that I am protected from spilling hot coffee on my lap while driving. This is really not true. What the government must do is provide basic services like utilities, emergency response, and protection from invasion. The government should also protect the freedom of the people, not by limiting what they are able to do or read or see or hear but by allowing them the ability to make their own choices about those things.
Children will come across disturbing images all the time. I have had football games on when ads for very, very violent movies come on, and my 6-year-old has been both captivated and disturbed by them. As a parent, it's my duty to help my child grow up in this world and be prepared for the disturbing things, to help him parse and respond to things in a mature way.
I don't lock my doors at night to keep burglars out--I lock them to keep Congress out.
One other piece of Legislation (Score:3, Interesting)
I spent 8 MONTHS out of work, with a mortgage and an infant, because the CEO of my company couldnt stand the thought of not living in the lap of luxury at almost 300 grand a year. And while I know that wasnt the Telecommunications' act fault, the blame does lie there for planting that huge seed of outright GREED in the minds of the people like her.
Yep, it was definitely such a prudent move on ol' Billy boy's part to let the companies in control of the most important technology of the next 20 years run amok. Wise move, Bonehead.
The Real Issue at Hand (Score:4, Insightful)
I am glad I am presently living/working in Canada. Maybe I will stay here
Contest? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:what a bunch of whining (Score:2)
Let's see... You mean like not being able to connect a dvd player through a vcr?
Me
Re:what a bunch of whining (Score:2, Insightful)
Just because you have not had FBI knocking on your door (of course the ratio of people breaking laws a little bit to FBI actually coming to get you is small) doesn't mean it wont happen. If there are mega-corporations pushing for more and more of these kinds of laws and almost no one is pushing back, you will feel pretty stupid and sore in 5-10 or more years with your ass being constantly pounded in jail... with a life sentence for seems like something that should be only minor offenses or not illegal at all.
Re:Publicity Stunt! (Score:2)
OTOH, you can do nothing to support your assertion that the random politician has ANY sense of altruism.
Perversely enough, script kiddies and mundane malware actually do provide some benefit. Like a mild cold, they may make you a little miserable but it will not kill you or do serious damage before you can remedy whatever sloppy practices lead to the infection.
Re:We don't vote people into office; we vote them (Score:3, Interesting)
If you feel the need to learn who is buying your representatives, opensecrets.org [opensecrets.org] is a useful site. I think this is where the article got it's data from.