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Gartner Survey: Consumers Don't Want Crippled CDs 452

robkill writes "According to GartnerG2, 77% of consumers believe they should be allowed to copy CD's for personal use in another device. 82% believe they should be allowed to make personal backup copies of CD's. Let's hope Senators Hollings and Berman are paying attention. More details can be found in this PC World article."
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Gartner Survey: Consumers Don't Want Crippled CDs

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  • by night_flyer ( 453866 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:29PM (#4549852) Homepage
    at a debate at the Oxford Union.

    A brief but detailed summary can be found here: http://tirian.magd.ox.ac.uk/~nick/UnionDebate/
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Here's the same link, but anchored for those too lazy to copy/paste:

      http://tirian.magd.ox.ac.uk/~nick/UnionDebate/ [ox.ac.uk]

      Posting as AC to prove i'm not whoring karma ;-)
    • IIRC, the people at that debate were involved with music more that normal people would be. This survey is of ordinary people, of the sort that the RIAA will pay attention to. The RIAA has mostly ignored the protests of Slashdot, no matter how vehement, but they are more likely to pay attention to this.
      • by sirsnork ( 530512 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @05:27PM (#4551503)
        Why?

        They know people will still buy the CD's even if they can't be copied. Take for example DVD's when they were first released, how many slashdotters bought DVD players and discs before they could copy them? My bet would be a good portion of us, and we are the ones that go looking for ways to copy them. Do you think the average consumer even knows it's possible to copy a DVD disc?

        So again I ask, why will the RIAA care what people want with regards to copying CD's. They know full well, even if CD's can't be copied they aren't going to lose sales. All those people that bought CD's before are still buying them now and will continue to do so in the future. With perhaps the exception of a few slashdotters we all still buy CD's, although we bitch and moan about it. Have a significant amount of us actually stopped buying CD's outright?

        I doubt it. The RIAA also believes (rightly or wrongly), that at least a portion of those people pirating music will fork over for the CD's if they can't find the music they want.
        • by sulli ( 195030 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @06:10PM (#4551864) Journal
          The difference is that lots of people have 5-10GB of MP3s now and want to rip every CD they buy, whether or not they share. Music is much easier to use once ripped; video isn't, at least to the same extent.

          If a CD won't rip to MP3 I won't buy it, because I won't be able to listen to it the way I prefer to (on iPod). There are millions others like me.

        • Um... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Dthoma ( 593797 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @06:35PM (#4552019) Journal
          The reason why people buy DVDs even though they can't copy them is because there is little point in copying them for the average member of the public. You can't watch movies while you do something else as you can with music, so there's no need to really copy it; ever heard of a portable DVD player that lets you watch DVDs in high quality on the go? No, neither have I.
  • by ErikRed1488 ( 193622 ) <erikdred1488@netscape.net> on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:31PM (#4549856) Journal
    I think it's sad that the RIAA already has 23% of the population convinced that they shouldn't be able to make a copy of a CD they own for personal use.
    • by sporty ( 27564 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:42PM (#4550000) Homepage
      3 types of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics :)

      Unless you have a graph or some history showing the increased popularity of the inability to copy cd's AND have solid proof it's the RIAA... I'll attribute the other 23% to other factors as well as the riaa.

      -s
    • by Frac ( 27516 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:44PM (#4550024)
      I think it's sad that the RIAA already has 23% of the population convinced that they shouldn't be able to make a copy of a CD they own for personal use.

      Not necessarily. My guess is that the majority of the 23% that said nay simply didn't care. Turn on the TV and watch some Jerry Springer - do you think people of such intellectual caliber would even know how to make a copy of the CD? If they don't even know how to make copies, why would they even care if they can make one or not?
      • If they don't even know how to make copies, why would they even care if they can make one or not?

        Maybe not all the 23% knows how to burn a cd, but I bet 90% know how to make a tape from CD.

        So I wonder why they chose the way they did if they do have the technical skill to make tapes.

        Of course they could be lying...as many do when asked how much beer they drink (and then the anthropologist does a study at the trash dump and finds out the 3 that admitted to drinking must drink 90% of the beer in town.)
    • by macdaddy357 ( 582412 ) <macdaddy357@hotmail.com> on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:12PM (#4550302)
      It is more likely that the 23% don't have a computer, and didn't care enough about the question to really answer it. If 77% of the population will boycott the recording industry, [dontbuycds.org] Hilary Rosen and the record company executives will be forced to rethink their views.
    • "... the RIAA already has 23% of the population convinced that they shouldn't be able to make a copy of a CD they own for personal use."


      How much did they pay (or what were they offering in exchange) for that 23%?

      The other question: How many of those 23% knew that they were talking about information CDs and not CDs that generate interest??
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:31PM (#4549859)
    In other news, 99.92% of all customers don't want their products broken, according to a recent survey.
  • by FreshMeat-BWG ( 541411 ) <bengoodwyn@ m e .com> on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:31PM (#4549862) Homepage
    Do you believe you are entitled to fair use of copyrighted works as provided under US copyright law?

    Somehow I venture to believe the respondents might answer somewhere closer to 100%.

    • by einer ( 459199 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:47PM (#4550070) Journal
      Or on the other side: "Do you believe that artists are entitled to payment for every copy of their work that gets distributed to a different individual?"

      Or

      "Do you believe that businesses should be allowed to distribute media that prevents the illegal copying and re-distribution of their content?"

      With art as in politics, it's all in where you draw the line.
      • by liquidsin ( 398151 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:55PM (#4550150) Homepage
        Those questions are all fine and dandy, and I'd vote 'yes' on both. But they're not the same as the parent poster's question OR the question that the article is based on. We're talking copies for personal use here, so your first question is invalid. And I have no problem with them trying to prevent illegal copying and distribution, so long as it doesn't infringe on my legal copying. If their idea of 'prevent illegal copying' is 'prevent all copying' then they are infringing on my rights.

        • by einer ( 459199 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:12PM (#4550311) Journal
          Well, since the parent post was talking about a hypothetical question, I don't understand why my equally hypothetical questions (both examples of loaded survey questions) are invalid, but you are free to argue as you like. Also, the question asked in the Survey is never explicitely stated, so your argument that my question isn't the same as the one in the survey is correct, but irrelevant.

          The questions I asked were posed to demonstrate that surveys tend to use loaded questions. In the case of the parent poster, the question is obviously loaded in favour of the 'consumer's rights' cause. The questions I proposed were obviously loaded in the other direction, and yet phrased in such a way that answering 'yes' doesn't appear disagreeable.

          As for my first question. I understand fair use rights. I think they're good. However they do pose a problem, and that is what my first question is pointing to.

          And I have no problem with them trying to prevent illegal copying and distribution, so long as it doesn't infringe on my legal copying.

          Then you have a problem, as that is exactly what they are trying to do.
      • by thomas.galvin ( 551471 ) <slashdot AT thomas-galvin DOT com> on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:02PM (#4550228) Homepage
        Or on the other side: "Do you believe that artists are entitled to payment for every copy of their work that gets distributed to a different individual?"

        Yeah, but what does that have to do with the RIAA?
      • As for your first question, I'd argue that artists aren't necessarily entitled to payment based on the grounds that I've got CD's with only one worthy track. In other words, I've been ripped off on all but one song.. should the artists get paid for 12 songs while contributing only one song to my music collection? Hell no. It's the same as the Microsoft tax that everybody cries about ... I buy one thing and end up paying for a lot more than what I wanted in the first place.
        In order to more accurately reflect the reality of crippled media, and since pirates probably don't buy those CD's, I'll rephrase your second one as
        "Do you believe that businesses should be allowed to distribute media that prevents legal copying and uses?"
    • by FearUncertaintyDoubt ( 578295 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:53PM (#4550133)
      I can see the survey now -- it'll sound like those trivia questions Jay Leno asks random people on the street...

      Q: Do you believe you are entitled to fair use of copyrighted works as provided under US copyright law?

      42% What the hell is fair use?
      27% Ernest Hemingway
      18% Uh, are you guys with Elimidate?
      7% Da na na na-na - HEY!
      4% You know, I always fast forward through the FBI warning, so I really can't say
      2% Yes

  • by tigertigr ( 610853 ) <tigertigr&yahoo,ca> on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:31PM (#4549867) Journal
    Please.

    They prefer to be called "digitally challenged" CDs.

    Thank you.
  • by p_rotator ( 617988 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:31PM (#4549871)

    82% believe they should be allowed to make personal backup copies of CD's.

    In other news, 18% of consumers are thrilled that their new computer came with a retractible cup-holder.

    • My guess (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Dephex Twin ( 416238 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:42PM (#4550006) Homepage
      The way I see it, those people who said they don't want to be able to do these things are mostly people who don't care. Not too computer savvy, and/or not too excited by music in general.

      "Do you think you should be able to make backups of your music CDs to other media?"

      "Well uh... no, I really don't care about that."

      I'm sure there are some who have succombed to the propaganda, but probably not all, or even most, of the "no" people.
  • So, 23% of people polled think that if they buy a CD it should only play in 1 device? And 18% think that they should NOT be allowed to make backups?

    Can we get some bleach for the gene pool please?
  • Consumers? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by The Turd Report ( 527733 ) <the_turd_report@hotmail.com> on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:32PM (#4549877) Homepage Journal
    100% of RIAA and their cronies *want* Crippled CDs. Whose $ do you think politicians are going to listen to?
    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:05PM (#4550246)
      that distributing mp3s on the net can help sales the same way that radio airtime helps increase an artist's exposure and boosts sales?

      Case Study:
      My mom comes by my appartment once in a while to say hi, and drop off a basket of fresh home baked muffins (thanks Mom). She hears, and likes the celtic songs playing on the stereo and asks who the artist is.

      "It's a mix of artists I downloaded from the internet." I reply. Then burn a copy of the mp3s to a cd, and give it to her.

      About a month later she has become hooked on a couple artists and has bought their cd's.

      Variations of this scenario have played out a couple times and my mom has complained that every time I give her a CD of MP3s she ends up spending 100 bucks at A&B Sound.

      I believe this is a common scenario. People download a bunch of songs and then every once in a while a particular artist strikes the right chord and they look for more music from that artist. The problem with the internet is that there is a lot of junk, and it is nearly impossible to download a whole album from one artist and get decent quality for every song. So many of us go out and by the CD.

      • What happens when it becomes easy to get a whole CD from the Internet? You are relying on a technical accident. Once this problem is fixed, downloading mp3s isn't like airtime. If you hear a song you like, you download the rest of the CD. What would be your view then?
        • What happens when it becomes easy to get a whole CD from the Internet? You are relying on a technical accident. Once this problem is fixed, downloading mp3s isn't like airtime. If you hear a song you like, you download the rest of the CD. What would be your view then?

          So, if it's too easy to download an album, how about make the album bigger?
          For example: I like quality in my CDs, so though I download music at 128kbps MP3s (or 192, if I can find it), if I find an album with three or more songs I like, I go out and buy it - then I get the higher quality, uncompressed 44.1kHz, 16-bit audio.

          So, you ask, what happens when connection speeds are such that I can just download the entire uncompressed album?

          Well, sure, that will happen, but how about the music industry stepping up to the challenge and offering more - more incentive to buy the full version? For instance, DVD-A (or SACD) with high resolution, multi-channel audio, and with some of the extra room on the album, maybe include a video or two. That would be worth purchase, 'cause either you have to compress the whole thing down horribly, or wait for a 9 GB download.

          People will still strip off the audio and compress it to MP3s, or submix down to 2-channel and downconvert it, but the loss of quality becomes equivalent to the loss of quality with MP3s now... or even worse.

          The RIAA wants me to buy more CDs rather than downloading them? Then, how about offer me something that makes it worthwhile for me to go purchase CDs.

          -T

      • So... (Score:3, Funny)

        by Wakko Warner ( 324 )
        Your mom buys CDs...

        Do you? (Your post doesn't mention you purchasing anything, just downloading celtic MP3s.)

        - A.P.
  • a poll recently uncovered that the majority of Americans think that property rights are still relevent and necessary for a functional civil society.....
  • by looseBits ( 556537 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:32PM (#4549883)
    I wonder what percentage of Joe Users out there have heard of the DMCA or have any idea about the war over fair use. Unless the public becomes educated on the problem, Senator Hollings has nothing to fear from the voter.
  • by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:32PM (#4549885) Homepage Journal

    I'm all for respecting peoples' various levels of abilities, but if they think I'm going to build a small ramp to my CD tray just so their crippled CDs can play.. well they've got another thing coming.
  • Suprised (Score:2, Funny)

    by MadocGwyn ( 620886 )
    Heh, I'm suprised 82% of the american population knows what cd's are
  • No, really? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by thomas.galvin ( 551471 ) <slashdot AT thomas-galvin DOT com> on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:34PM (#4549904) Homepage
    Here's a nice tall glass of "no kidding" to the good people at Gartner. I wish I could have seen the questionaire:

    Do you prefer:
    1. CDs that you can listen to however/whenever you want
    2. CDs that destroy your CD-ROM's firmware

    Here's a wakeup call for Hollywood and all of the Software firms: when an American buys something, even a CD, movie, or program, he/she thinks that they now own it. that's how it's always been. That's how it still is with books. That's how it's going to be with your products once people get tired of your DRM antics.
  • 18%? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Talisman ( 39902 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:34PM (#4549906) Homepage
    "82% believe they should be allowed to make personal backup copies of CD's."

    I'm hoping the other 18% checked the 3) I don't understand this question option.

    If 18% of the public believes they shouldn't have the right to back-up their own software, we should begin to panic.

    Then again, 18% of the public probably believes in Santa Clause, including G. W. Bush, the Lesser.

    Talisman
  • I also believe (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Choco-man ( 256940 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:34PM (#4549908)
    that constituents don't want corrupted congressmen.

    let's see, who do you think will have more influence - a poll that shows roughly 80% of constituents don't want a certain 'feature' (half of those constituents will likely be democrat, half republican. halve that again for the actual numbers that will vote..)

    OR

    the HUGE amounts of contribution money donated by industry to congressional representatives to ensure their voice is heard fairly.

    In order to clear up consumer rights issues, you must first clear up congressional responsibility issues. Stop allowing corporations to be treated as more important citizens than the actual voting citizens first.

  • by jormurgandr ( 128408 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:37PM (#4549933)
    I dont think those senators or the RIAA really care at all about what the general public thinks is fair/not-fair use of the products purchased. All these senators care about is the bottom dollar, and how many ben franklins are in their pocket. It would be nice if they really did care what their constituants (sp) thought, but the truth is they dont, wont, and never really did.
  • Survey Suggestions (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Guido69 ( 513067 )
    Why doesn't G2 survey the MPAA, RIAA, and their legislative lackeys to see how many of them care about what their customers/constituents want or believe?
  • by CathedralRulz ( 566696 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:37PM (#4549937)
    I don't really think that a consumer poll of what people want to do at no cost is relevant. I am sure if you asked the public if they think there should be no ATM fees, if they should be able to carry their cell phone numbers across different carriers, and if they should be able to download/pirate mucis off the internet without restrictions, most would also assent.

    Polls are not news; information that moves polls is. There was a day when journalists shunned polls, now they are the basis for a story.

    • by liquidsin ( 398151 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:18PM (#4550361) Homepage
      The difference here is that none of the things you mentioned are constitutional rights, whereas fair use is. I'm sure if I asked everyone if they want a million dollars, they'd all say yes, but that's not in the constitution either. I'm not entirely sure how you got modded up "insightful", so if anyone can tell me which part of this post provoked that mod, let me in on the secret.

  • by lynx_user_abroad ( 323975 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:37PM (#4549943) Homepage Journal
    Let's hope Senators Hollings and Berman are paying attention.

    No, let's hope not. Personally, I'd rather see them maintain their delusions until they're no longer in office. After that, they can delude as they see fit.

  • by ceejayoz ( 567949 ) <cj@ceejayoz.com> on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:38PM (#4549948) Homepage Journal
    Let's hope Senators Hollings and Berman are paying attention.

    The vast majority of voters won't care a bit. Yes, they'd like non-crippled CDs, but that won't sway their voting. People usually vote based on whether someone is Republican or Democratic - the stance the candidate takes on important issues is (depressingly) unimportant to most people.
  • The real question... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by harks ( 534599 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:38PM (#4549953)
    The real question is whether or not people would buy a CD that was restricted. Sure, no one wants it, but will people skip over buying CDs which are copyprotected?
    • The real question is whether or not people would buy a CD that was restricted.

      I have already voted, several times. Unfortunately, they seem to have confused my voting with a revenue theoretically lost to piracy. No, it's revenue lost because I don't want to risk buying a crippled CD!
      • Voting (Score:5, Insightful)

        by dcavanaugh ( 248349 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:59PM (#4550792) Homepage
        "I have already voted, several times..."

        RIAA has a tough time of counting the votes. If you buy crippleware, that counts as a "yes" vote for crippleware. If you don't buy crippleware, it's not really a "no" vote for crippleware, because any "no" votes are considered piracy.

        An honest comparison would be the sales of otherwise identical albums, selling the crippled and uncrippled side-by-side for the same price. Until that happens, it's really like Saddam running against nobody in the Iraqi "election".
  • by mirio ( 225059 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:39PM (#4549954)
    For those out there (RIAA, MPAA, congress) that believe people refuse to pay for something they could otherwise get for free, I have but two words:

    BOTTLED WATER
    • Two words for you! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by toupsie ( 88295 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:57PM (#4550183) Homepage
      For those out there (RIAA, MPAA, congress) that believe people refuse to pay for something they could otherwise get for free, I have but two words:BOTTLED WATER

      LEAD PIPES!

      Come to NYC and drink the tap water that has been sitting in 100 year old lead pipes before it comes out of your faucet. You will LOVE bottled water. Plus, you actually don't get free water unless you are sucking up the scummy lake or river water filled with parasites. Tap water is paid for by taxes. No matter what, "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."

      • LEAD PIPES!

        Come to NYC and drink the tap water that has been sitting in 100 year old lead pipes before it comes out of your faucet. You will LOVE bottled water. Plus, you actually don't get free water unless you are sucking up the scummy lake or river water filled with parasites. Tap water is paid for by taxes. No matter what, "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."

        Actually 100 year old lead pipes should be pretty safe since they will have a nice coating of minerals on the inside and should not leach lead into the water unlike newer soldered copper piples from a couple decades ago that contain lead in the solder.

        I do agree that municipal water leaves much to be desired since it's quite often clorinated/ozoned to kill any critters in it and may have flourine added to give people nice healthy teeth. Bottled water does taste much better, but if you have a filter for the tap water it's just as good.

        subsolar

    • Nice idiot bait (Score:3, Informative)

      by siskbc ( 598067 )
      Judging from the responses you got to that one, I would say you found the 18%!

      For God's sake people, chlorinated tap water will likely contain fewer microbes than spring water, which comes out of the damned GROUND. If you're lucky. Know where aquafina and dasani come from? Chlorinated tap water with some salts added. So you're paying $2 a bottle for what you can get for (essentially) free. Morons.

      If you have any questions about your tap water, you have the right to get the full results of the water testing, at http://www.epa.gov/safewater/dwinfo.htm

      Here is a link to LA's water.
      http://www.ladwp.com/water/quality/Annual/AnnRep01 /index.htm
      And here's New York's:
      http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/dep/html/wsstate.html

      I would say a small fraction of the country actually lives in an area where the water is actually hazardous. Both NY and LA were pretty damned good, actually. I've done tests on water, you'd be surprised how good tap water is in most places.

      But congratulations on swallowing the FUD of the bottled water industry! I suppose you'll follow suit with the **AA.
      • Re:Nice idiot bait (Score:3, Insightful)

        by alexburke ( 119254 )
        For God's sake people, chlorinated tap water will likely contain fewer microbes than spring water, which comes out of the damned GROUND. If you're lucky.

        I call bullshit.

        The house I've lived in for the last while is supplied by a well (yes, the water comes out of the "damned GROUND"). Every six months we send a sample of the water to a local lab to test for parasites and bacteria. It always comes back with zeroes across the board; zero E. Coli, zero coliform, etc. And this is without one drop of chlorine, bromine, or anything else.

        Know where aquafina and dasani come from? Chlorinated tap water with some salts added. So you're paying $2 a bottle for what you can get for (essentially) free. Morons.

        Take chlorinated tap water and run it through a heavy-duty reverse osmosis filter (among other filters) like Coca-Cola does with Dasani, and you end up with basically nothing but dihydrogen monoxide (pure water). Then they add some minerals back into the water to give it some taste (otherwise it would be like drinking distilled water, which actually isn't as good for you and also tastes yucky).

        Chlorine and fluorine don't taste good, which is why many people in areas with heavily-treated (or high-iron-content, for example) water prefer bottled water to their tap water. Yes, it costs more, but it's more pleasant.

        Now who's the moron?
  • Re: (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rmohr02 ( 208447 ) <mohr.42@DALIosu.edu minus painter> on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:39PM (#4549964)
    According to GartnerG2, 77% of consumers believe they should be allowed to copy CD's for personal use in another device. 82% believe they should be allowed to make personal backup copies of CD's. Let's hope Senators Hollings and Berman are paying attention.
    Since when did Senators Hollings and Berman give a shit about the concerns of the general public?
  • Backup? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by adjensen ( 58676 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:40PM (#4549971)
    Okay, who on Earth thinks that they should "backup audio cds"? Come on, that's a pretty forced issue. I have several thousand audio cds, and while I'd hate to lose any of them, I don't think I'm going to be burning CDR copies of the pile.

    One thing that the synopsis fails to include is the like:

    60 percent said they should be able to give copies of CDs to members of their families.

    ...and that's pretty much the point of the RIAA. You don't want to be limited in your use of the medium, but you also see nothing wrong with ripping off the artist. If people didn't have such a cavalier attitude towards the whole issue, copy protection wouldn't have ever come up in the first place.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the RIAA and their heavy handed tactics, nor of the major media companies that are wringing every last dime out of the transaction at the expense of the artist and the consumer. But, by the same token, if no one is buying cds anymore, what impetous is there for your favourite band to bother making one?

    • Me. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by _xeno_ ( 155264 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:11PM (#4550300) Homepage Journal
      Okay, who on Earth thinks that they should "backup audio cds"?

      I do.

      Really. I own two collector's editions of some very obscure music and I'd much rather play the backups than the original disks. So I make exact backups of them and then safely put the originals away.

      I don't give them away to friends, I don't share them online through a P2P service, I don't do anything like that. I make a copy for the car and that's that. I want to keep the originals nice and safe; I use a copy for the car and Ogg for the computer.

      When I buy a video game that requires me to use the CD, I try and use a copy as well, since I'd much rather risk accidently destroying a copy of my Warcraft III Collector's Edition (yeah, I know, Vivendi=Evil - quiet) then the original disk itself.

      If I can figure out how to make a copy of UT2003 I'd do it to so I can let the original disks sit out of harms way (especially with the stupid "must have CD in the drive" shenanigans that often have disks out on top of the case during the burn of another disk or the install of something else - the joys of being a software developer under Windows - *sigh*).

      Copy prohibition is only annoying for the legitimate purchases of content. The developers for UT2003 understood that and have admitted it in interviews. It's too bad that the publishing houses haven't figured that out yet and that I'm forced to have the stupid CD in my computer just so UT2003 can be convinced that even with a valid CD key I'm not some evil pirate.

      When I buy music, I want to make an Ogg on my computer and a copy for my car. I then leave the disk safely away for potential future re-ripping and encoding to Ogg2 or the next great codec.

      When my Dad buys a CD, he uses Roxio Easy-CD Creator to encode it to MP3 and then makes mixes of them for his car. My mother also encodes every CD she wants for easy access (although I don't know exactly what program she uses).

      But notice that in these cases, we all legitamitely have the CD! I bought my copy of UT2003 and would be much obliged if Atari would trust me enough to use the game without the CD in the drive.

      I have yet to see any of these restrictions doing anything to harm pirates. It just harms the honest consumer. I still buy CDs (a full four this year - and I haven't illegally downloaded anything else - and of those four, only two were through RIAA members) and support the companies that make games I like to play. But I still see the tracks available online, and know people who make copies of "copy protected" CDs simply to prove it's possible. And I'll bet all the real pirates of content and still happily selling their illegal $2 CDs out on the black market, laughing at means that only serve to force the honest user to either spend more money on additional CDs or give up functionality they've come to expect from their computers.

      It annoys me.

    • Re:Backup? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by NewtonsLaw ( 409638 )
      Okay, who on Earth thinks that they should "backup audio cds"?

      Well here in NZ where charting CDs cost as much as $35 each, backing them up onto a $1 CDR constitutes cheap insurance against damage.

      If you argue that it's not worth spending a buck to protect $35 then chances are your house and other posessions are also uninsured -- after all, why spend money to protect your assets?

      Of course the RIAA could kill the need/right/claim to backup CDs by offering an "at cost media replacement" service...

      If they were prepared to replace a scratched or otherwise unusable original CD for just the price of the media (say $1) then they could say "you don't need to back them up" -- and that would add huge weight to their copy-protection pitch.

      However, as we well know, the RIAA isn't interested in being fair.

      Which leaves us wondering exactly what you're buying when you purchase a music CD.

      It can't be a license to listen to the music or they'd be happy to replace the media at cost should it get damaged.

      That means you must really be paying a significant amount of money just for the plastic and aluminum that make up the disk itself. In which case -- who the hell do they think they are trying to tell us that, having paid for it, we can't do whatever we want with it (including duplication for fair use purposes).

      It strikes me that the RIAA want to have their cake and eat it to.

      How can so many really stupid people be in control of so much money? Me thinks it can't be simply by virtue of hard work.
    • Just a question... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by gillbates ( 106458 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:17PM (#4550359) Homepage Journal

      Why should the artist, who performs a song once, get paid every time someone wants to hear that song? They expend no additional effort regardless of how many times a CD is copied or their music is played.

      Consider programming, for example. Most programmers are paid to produce something, and very few, if any, receive royalties every time their programs are run. Why should it be any different for "artists" - who like programmers, are creative, but considerable better compensated considering the actual amount of work they do.

      Notice that I'm not saying that performers shouldn't be compensated, but rather that they aren't entitled to be compensated for doing nothing. I have no problem with paying to see an artist performing live, because in that case, they are actually working. But how am I depriving an artist of their "fair share" if I copy a CD that I wouldn't have paid for in the first place? What if I don't buy CD's, but rather just listen to the radio? Am I stealing then? (I enjoy the music, but I didn't pay for it!) What's the difference?

      What it comes down to is plain and simple greed. The record companies and artists want to be compensated for doing nothing.

      I'm not saying that a musician's life isn't hard, but no one forced these people to become musicians. A career in music is not an entitlement. If you can't make a living as a musician, actually performing live, then maybe you shouldn't be in the business.

      • by CdotZinger ( 86269 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @05:00PM (#4551309)


        1) If you think artists are "better compensated" for their work than programmers are, you must not know any artists or programmers. The statement is so wrong it's irrefutable--you should start a religion. But, an example: I'm an "artist." I write books, and make music for films. That's my job. And I make more money than anyone I know--except my friends who are programmers. My hourly wage for writing a book, I've calculated, runs about $2.20 US. Dollars. Two of them, and twenty cents. Years of work for a few thousand dollars--the high life indeed. (In case you don't like the analogy: I'm also in a band that's "critically acclaimed" but not famous; we lose money every time we even think about music.) My most successful programmer friend guesses he makes about $200 US per hour. He "guesses" that because he works so little and makes so much, he can't stop laughing long enough to bust out his calculator. Neither of us are typical, I'm sure, but there's more of him and me than there are of Britney Spears and RMS. Still, explain to me in detail how sickeningly overpaid and lazy I am, please.

        2) Royalties exist so that artists can make whatever they want, and if people buy it, they can get paid for having worked--just like telemarketers and strippers. Ideally, this takes artistic decisions out of the hands of patrons and media corps--for artists willing to risk being utterly destitute should their work not sell--and puts them the hands of...whoever. Isn't that neat? It's, like, an almost-ideal version of capitalism or something.

        (As for the whole "playing live" argument: Movies, paintings, books, and irreproducible studio-created music all exist; should they not? Because that's all "doing nothing," right? DVDs, reproductions of paintings, books, and records are already cheap, because they're easy to make once all the work is done. Like any other manufactured good is. I mean, should Ferraris cost $1000 each? Because all the "real work" was done before the first one went off the assembly line, and those greedy car-designing bastards expect you to spend a hundred grand on a pile of scrap-metal while they're off on vacation--right? The nerve.)

        3) Everything you said above is a justification for your being a cheap and envious person. I admit I probably have much better luck with the art-hotties than you do, but you're rather too rabid about all this, don't you think? You're spitting bold tags all over the screen. Sigmund Freud wrote some books you should probably read. And you can steal them without guilt--dead men collect no royalties.

    • Re:Backup? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Jucius Maximus ( 229128 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @04:02PM (#4550815) Journal
      "Okay, who on Earth thinks that they should "backup audio cds"? Come on, that's a pretty forced issue. I have several thousand audio cds, and while I'd hate to lose any of them, I don't think I'm going to be burning CDR copies of the pile."

      I think audio CDs should be backed up. If I had done proper backups, a certain rare CD which is no longer produced would not have been destroyed when the CD changer machine broke down.

      Similarly, would you leave your original CDs in a car? I woudln't. That is why I burn copies of the legally purchased originals and play them in the car.

    • Re:Backup? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Lil'wombat ( 233322 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @04:10PM (#4550895)
      Okay, who on Earth thinks that they should "backup audio cds"?

      Until I can take my scratched CD back to Best Buy and get a new copy for the cost of media - since I've already purchased a license to listen to the damn thing - then YES i want to be able to make a backup as is my right under the law.

      And on a related topic -- if the stupid CD/Book/game is now longer avaailable because it's "out of print", then all talk of copyright is moot. If I make an unauthorized copy, how is it piracy when the origional isn't avaialble for sale?

    • Re:Backup? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Exantrius ( 43176 )
      I Do.

      I have a really crappy CD player in my car (I had no choice, I was a college student and my radio croaked. I got it for free. Sue me). When I insert a CD, it leaves two nice big scars on it (not scratches, *SCARS*). On retail CDs, it usually doesn't hurt them much, but If I just spent 15 dollars on a cd [floggingmolly.com], I don't want to take the chance of losing it. Sure, it's not much of an investment compared to other things I own, it's still something I own, and I'm not going to pay every three weeks to get a new copy of that cd.

      While my CD player kills cd-r's after only two or three insertions, a cd-r costs me... about a dime. I can live with a dime loss ever couple weeks (I generally listen to the same cd for long periods of time

      and as for "ripping off the artist". I made two copies of this cd. One for my cousin, and another for a friend who happens to be a teacher. My cousin played it for a couple of his friends, then both of them went and bought the last two copies of it at the local warehouse. My teacher friend played it for her classroom, and apparently three of the students decided to go buy it themselves. I'm sure glad I ripped off the band, and got them to sell five more copies than if I hadn't made those copies.

      All that being said, Flogging molly is a fucking great band.

      That's all, go about your business. /ex
  • Not likely to help (Score:4, Interesting)

    by laigle ( 614390 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:40PM (#4549977)
    There's still two major problems.

    1. Ignorance. Most people don't know that there are people in Congress being payed to take those rights away from them. That would involve complex actions like searching out information (hey, it's not like the major media outlet owned papers are covering this issue in depth). It might even require the average American to read at a high school level, and we all know that's a pipe dream. And thus they won't find it out till it's too late. Which leads into..

    2. Apathy. Nobody stands up for their rights any more. Especially when it's a little thing like copying a CD. Then having chips implanted into their TVs to prevent them from deviously recording the show they'll be missing while working the second job to pay for all their new compliant electronics. Then having to pony up tax money for the much needed "Buy Jack Valenti a gold plated limo every six months" fund when even those measures don't save the entertainment industry from the greed, idiocy, and fraud of those running it. Then having the FBI wiretap all communications, open all mail, and sneak hidden cameras into every home to make sure no piracy is occuring. Well, that's the ones who don't get drafted for our wars to fight terrorism in Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Western Europe, China, Mexico, Canada, and New York.
  • I mean, think about it.

    Did the questions really ask whether they thought they /should/ be able to, whether they /wanted/ to, or whether they thought /others/ should be able to? The first two are night and day... and don't think that people won't respond differently to the third than the first. It's a matter of context.

    Manipulating a poll like this is extremely easy--and as easy to do by accident as on purpose. You can't rely on numbers like this.
  • by jvmatthe ( 116058 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:40PM (#4549980) Homepage
    77% of consumers believe they should be allowed to copy CD's for personal use in another device. 82% believe they should be allowed to make personal backup copies of CD's

    Honestly, I've never met anyone that felt that they shouldn't be able to copy their music to another format. I realize I'm just a sheltered GNU/Linux geek and all that, but really...what did the other 23% or 18% (resp.) of people mean when they said they shouldn't copy music to other formats or make backups? Were they just ignorant that such things could be done? Were they really so afraid of some boogeyman of copyright enforcement that they think exists to track down and kill so-called pirates? Or do the RIAA and MPAA really account for that large of a chunk of our population? ;^)

    Has anyone on /. ever met someone that said "Truly, we should not copy CD music to MP3 players" or "I won't make a backup of a CD for my car because it's a crime"? Other than a member of the copyright cartels, that is.
  • by Prince_Ali ( 614163 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:41PM (#4549982) Journal
    Our extensive research has found that the majority of people like things that work and do not destroy their property if used in a normal manner. Hillary Rosen was reached for comment saying, "These results are flawed. Our focus groups have stated that they enjoy the crippled CDs... at least more than having their pubic hairs pulled out one by one."
  • To put it simply, it doesn't matter how many people believe this. What matters is, how many of the cited percentages are active voters, and for that matter, are willing to vote for someone else because of their Senator's stance on the issue.

    We can cite polls and percentages all day, but until more people start excercising the right to vote, Hollings stance on the issue wont change.

    I may be slightly off here, but I believe less than half the eligible population voted in the last presidential election.
  • by VivianC ( 206472 )
    100% of RIAA member companies don't give a damn what consumers think about crippled CDs as long as they keep shelling out $18.99 a crack for Britney et al.
  • by sideshow ( 99249 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:44PM (#4550032)
    97% of all Americans want to sit at home while dump trucks pour hundred dollar bills into their swimming pools.
  • by LamerBunny ( 613373 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:44PM (#4550034)
    In Denmark [denmark.dk] (where I live), it is legal to copy CDs for backup and personal use. Furthermore it is legal to lend your CDs to your friends, who may then copy them. It is even legal to copy CDs from your local library. All this copied music can be encoded as you choose, and as a result all my mp3s are legal.

    This, of course, has caused tons of contreversy, but the fact is, that the Danish government has recognized the right of the individual to manipulate, compile and even share legally purchased music...

    I am not sure if this harms the music industry, and there has been talk about putting a small price on getting CDs from the library, but for now, it is totally free, and totally legal.

    Oh... btw - artist of course get the regular royalties from people getting their CDs at the library... so they DO earn some from it.

    - Tha Lamer, Tha Bunny...
  • Hrm.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by Frank of Earth ( 126705 ) <frank&fperkins,com> on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:44PM (#4550039) Homepage Journal
    But while consumers are perturbed with this solution, the study found that 74 percent of those surveyed believed that if the music companies must distribute copy-protected CDs, they should contain warning labels. Which give good directions on where to find the latest tools to copy these uncopyable cds.

  • by gsfprez ( 27403 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:47PM (#4550074)
    from the article (yes, i read it)

    >The copy-protected CDs limit users options--preventing them from making a copy of the CD to play in their car, for example, as one could with a cassette tape.

    this is 100% BS.

    Copy-protected CD do NOT stop someone from making a copy of the CD to play in their car, for example.

    There is NO CD that can stop you from doing this.

    1. Get a 1/8" to 1/8" cable from Radio Shack
    2. Plug one end into a CD player that the CD plays in
    3. Plug the other end into your computer
    4. Hit "play" on the CD player at the same time you hit "record" on your computer's audio recording program.

    99% of people will NOT be able to tell the difference when listening to the "unmakable" CD in their car.

    They will, also, be able to make mixes.. that is, they can put tracks from MULTPILE "copy protected" circular-shiny-thingies-that-only-play-in-older-cd -players .

    The only copy-protected music CD is the one that doesn't play in ANY CD player.

    There is no way to stop me from copying the information from a media which allows me to hear, see, smell or taste. At least, not a copy which is "close enough" for me not to care that its a "perfect" copy.
  • by salesgeek ( 263995 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:50PM (#4550107) Homepage
    It's good to see the industry shaman/guru/fortune tellers at Gartner stick to their comfortable pattern of stating the obvious:

    * Desktop computers cost a wad of cash to support
    * Servers cost a wad of cash to support
    * Companies want their computer stuff for cheap (TCO or Total Cost of Ownership)
    * Losing cusotmers is expensive (Customer relationship management)
    * Huge databases will be the norm in a few years (I love how this one is always true)

    and joining Gartner's other brilliant flashes of the obvious:

    * Consumers want to be able to use the software/music/movies/whatever they buy!

    Maybe I should write a few cheesy white papers like "Controling the transaction cost of email" or "Why having an accounting system is important" and put on a few webinars... the boom, I could hire a bunch of marketing flunk outs and sell seats in "executive briefings" or cobranded reports for big $$$...

    I suppose I should lighten up on Gartner - they do serve a purpose: they make people want to spend inordinate ammounts of money on trendy software and therefore keep a lot of us slashdot types employed.

    $G
  • by gesualdo ( 149094 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:52PM (#4550131)
    > Let's hope Senators Hollings and Berman are paying attention.

    Of course, if You really cared about this issue, You'd not sit only at home and hope that politicians listen, but You'd get out there and support those who are fighting for You by joining the EFF [eff.org].

    Fight back!

  • by Slashdolt ( 166321 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:54PM (#4550142)
    1. Too costly
    2. I can get (sometimes) lower quality stuff from free via P2P.
    3. I'm afraid that it will be crippled

    Combine #1 and #3 and #2 is the only choice left for me.

    Some business models are just not meant to survive forever. The Recording Industry should have begun to realize this 4 or 5 years ago, when MP3's first began to become popular, but instead they missed the boat, and decided to fight anyone that got on the boat. Hurt your consumers. Hurt your musicians. Given the fact that many people see the Recording Industry as dishonest (anyone remember the fact that they were recently found guilty of price fixing?), it's no wonder why we don't feel the least bit guilty about downloading from Kazaa, Morpheus, etc.

    Nevertheless, most people prefer to be honest, overall. If the music industry starts selling new MP3 songs for $1/song and old ones for $0.25/song, they would likely see their profits higher than ever before, and kazaa would simply become a fringe group of people.
  • by Ian Wolf ( 171633 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:55PM (#4550160) Homepage
    Nobody has a firmer grasp on the obvious than us!

  • by gillbates ( 106458 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @02:56PM (#4550161) Homepage Journal
    To convince the record companies that they stand more to lose from copy-restricting CD's than from their so called "piracy".

    I recently discovered that some of the MP3's I've ripped from CD's which I own now have just barely audible clicks and pops in the background. At first, I chalked it up to scratches, but upon observation of the original CD in perfect condition, realized that I had become a victim of the Cactus Data Shield.

    So I've decided that I won't buy another CD until it's mandated by law that Copy Restricted CD's be clearly labeled. And then, I won't buy copy restricted CD's.

    Quite frankly, I understand why people download music for free and don't believe it to be "theft" - they grew up listening to the radio, and expect free music. Even when they want to do the "right thing" and pay the artist, they find that what they get on the CD is wholly inferior to what they can download on the 'net for free. Why should someone pay for something that they aren't sure will even work with their audio equipment? Why would anyone spend money for something that might work with their system, when they can get the same music of better quality for free?

    I can't help but wonder how many others have simply stopped buying CD's because they find that they can't listen to the music in the manner of their choosing.

  • by The Evil Couch ( 621105 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:00PM (#4550208) Homepage
    in the foot. Once the public got the figures on how much the artist recives per CD sale versus how large of a cut that the record companies get, we decided that there was no way that we'd buy CDs. I mean, the artist is getting screwed on CD sales; the only one that stands to lose a chunk of money is the record companies, right?

    well, that's the way most people look at it anyways. and honestly, I don't think that they're that far off from the mark. there's something to be said for free distribution of music getting the band's name out there, making for a much more packed venue when it comes tour time. I mean, there's quite a few times when I personally have had a friend give me a CD or MP3 and thought, "wow, this is pretty good. I'm going to go to their show whenever they come to town." In the vast majority of the public's eyes, they want the music and they want to help the artist. no middle-man.
  • by WCMI92 ( 592436 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:05PM (#4550252) Homepage
    I mean, WHY WOULD any customer of the record labels WANT CD's that:

    1. Cost the same, most likely more than current CD's, which have increased in price even as the cost of production has decreased.

    2. Have lower audio quality (if watermarked, ala SDMI) than current CD's.

    3. Won't allow them to do as much as current CD's.

    It's a lose-lose-lose for the customer. I'm shocked that they got a sample THAT HIGH that would put up with them.
  • by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:06PM (#4550257) Homepage Journal
    Its been rather apparent for years between governmental action and how large businesses treat their customers that we DONT matter.. nor what we think.

    Its all a matter of forcing us to continue to provide money, in their terms, to the state/corporation regardless of what we want/need.

    Good example is digital TV mandate, sales drop off so government forces us back into the market by making what we have un-.useable, much to the glee of the industry.
    • " Its been rather apparent for years between governmental action and how large businesses treat their customers that we DONT matter.. nor what we think. Its all a matter of forcing us to continue to provide money, in their terms, to the state/corporation regardless of what we want/need. Good example is digital TV mandate, sales drop off so government forces us back into the market by making what we have un-.useable, much to the glee of the industry."

      I agree, but you forgot one major ingredient in the pie. Illegal monopolies. Forcing us to provide money on their terms is only possible in a monopoly. It's how the music industry, movie industry, and microsoft work. And the scary part is that the US government won't break it up right now because it will flush the economy down the toilet (in the short term) even faster than Dubyah has managed to do it.

    • I thought the government's actions on digital TV was more about raising massive funds by auctioning off the airwaves, rather than propping up the electronics manufacturers. Pretty much everyone's budget plans are based on a huge influx of cash from these auctions, but if no one owns a digital TV, the auctions won't be as lucrative. Hence trying to force the technology on us.
  • Its smoke (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ToasterTester ( 95180 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:22PM (#4550395)
    The they all want to make copies for personal use, that isn't the real issue. It't the 95% of of those 82% who want make copies for others who didn't pay for the original material. If the rest of you had to make a living off royality per sale or use of your work instead of getting paid a salary or hourly you'd change your mind real quick.
    • As it is, the songwriter royalty system is based almost entirely on radio airplay "surveys". Voting rights in ASCAP and BMI are allocated based on royalties received, and as part of the membership agreement, artist agree not to challenge the system for determining royalties, further empowering the "haves" and disenfranchising the "have-nots". Add that to the creative accounting used by the record companies to recoup their advances from the artist royalties, and most artists never receive a royalty check. Artist royalties are the RIAA's smokescreen. The RIAA wants to maintain a tight control on the distribution of music, and maintain their power base.
  • by tunabomber ( 259585 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:23PM (#4550416) Homepage
    Madison, WI (10/20/03) -

    A local Best Buy retailer was inundated with a crowd of screaming teenagers and adults who couldn't wait to get their hands on a new CD containing the latest in digital restrictions management technology.

    "It's so amazing how far music has come in the last 5 decades.", said 18-year-old Tricia James, clutching her copy of the new CD, a reissue of Three Dog Night's 1970 release, Naturally.

    "It's always the consumers who drive initiatives like this.", commente Hilary Rosen, chairperson of the RIAA,at a press conference this Wednesday. "Our customers demand stringent limitations that prevent freeloaders from getting out of paying for another CD if their original store-bought CD becomes too scratched to play, and we deliver them. It adds value to our product."

    "And this is just the tip of the iceberg", interjected the MPAA chairman, Jack Valenti. "This same technology can be applied to television, food, and even movies. I can't believe that in the 100-or-so years film has been around, theater operators didn't realize that people have TWO eyes, effectively giving them two identical copies of the same movie, one of which isn't being paid for. We are developing a simple, fair solution for this: either the theater patron will pay double the normal price of a movie, or they will be forced to wear a pirate-like eye patch."

    "But aren't pirates the people you are trying to get rid of?" inquired a skeptic reporter from the Philadelphia Observer. Hilary Rosen quickly and conclusively answered this one by saying "Ha ha, yeah, I guess that's a little ironic isn't it? Yaarrgh, maytee!".

    However the teenagers at the Grassy Park Best Buy aren't quite THAT optimistic. "Eye patches? I mean I'm all for some more rights management, but it'll be som endeaver to pull it off" said an unsure 15-year-old named Brian Coqueville. "Maybe if they start putting cool corporate logos on the patches, I'll be interested."

    Jill Holmsworth, 21 still too giddy after the purchase of her new crippled disc to talk about anything else. "It's like almost an S&M thing for me. You no, like when someone ties you up and you're like No! No more! but deep down inside you love that stable,predictable feeling that the restraints give you. DRM is just like that, only they're DIGITAL restrictions, which are like ten times as good!"


  • Analogue!!! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by djkitsch ( 576853 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:31PM (#4550490)
    I know this is the digital age and all, but as I think someone pointed out above (albeit rather convoulutedly), 99% of the time you can't tell the difference between an analogue and a digital copy.

    Only difference being, rip the CD on "Analogue Input" mode. Easy! If everyone did this instead of getting pissed about it, the RIAA would possibly get bored and wander off...and maybe design CDs glued into the jewel case or something.
  • by sielwolf ( 246764 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:38PM (#4550575) Homepage Journal
    Remember that most criminal law is built upon that x-percent minority that would be out there doing vile things if the law wasn't in place. So citing examples of Good Citizens is meaningless. Otherwise I'd be walking around with my full auto Steyr Maddi AK-47.

    Another important thing: you have to show definitive proof to the extent the new prohibition will work. On the fully automatic firearm ban you can say that outside a few extreme cases, it has worked pretty damn well in restricting the weapons from criminals. Harris and Klebold didn't have them.

    But then compare that to the prohibition on alcohol: a law that was almost flagrantly disregarded by most people.

    Now you have to show will [fill in the name of CD copyright protection law here] will either be like the former or the latter. Laws need to be effective and constructive. People won't follow the law just because it was done with good intentions.

    (Of course you could say the firearm law isn't even that useful. But then you get into a question of what is effective law and what isn't. Given enough modivation a person can break any prohbition.)
  • by Triv ( 181010 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:47PM (#4550661) Journal
    First thing you learn in advertising is how you ask a question is just as important as the derived statistic. I want to know if they asked "do you think you should be able to copy a CD for yourself" (relatively neutral), "Do you think copying a CD should be allowed, as it is protected by US copywright law" (weighted for) or "do you think stealing music is wrong" (weighted against). I'd wager good money on the second. It's all about the quality of the questions, not the merit of the issue. 'Tho it's good to see we can throw meaningless numbers around just as much as the other guys.

    Triv
  • by Jouni ( 178730 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:48PM (#4550670)
    Regardless of what legistlation is passed in the US, all other countries in the world have to deal with the same issues. Some of them will follow an example set by the US, some will follow the rules of the marketplace, but there will be countries where consumer's options will be severely limited.

    This kind of copy-protection schemes are starting to emerge in Europe as well; just yesterday I saw a CD by Ian Van Dahl clearly marked as non-playable on PCs and Macs. I didn't buy the particular CD to test the validity of these claims, but that's down to personal choice rather than a market trend. I do not know whether the sales of the record have been impaired in any way.

    Funny, though; the fact that it's unplayable in PCs and Macs is not explained in any way. It is left almost as an anomaly with the CD, with no symbol of value that would express increased protection, value or proof of originality. All it has is a little black box stating the obvious problem.

    I imagine something like a "original audio recording - for stereo equipment only" holographic label or something a bit more upbeat could have given a better message to the consumers. On the other hand maybe we should be glad they didn't think of this?

    Jouni
  • by biffnix ( 174407 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @03:53PM (#4550728) Homepage Journal

    Just bout the new Donnas [thedonnas.com] CD (Spend The Night) from Amazon.com. Pre-ordered it, even! And when it arrived, I found it would not even fire up in my Dell 8100 with a CD-RW drive! I wasted the money! What really sucks is that there was NO WAY for me to tell it was copy-protected BEFORE I ordered it. Otherwise, I simply wouldn't have bought it. The CD played ok on someone else's computer with no CD-RW, but on MY laptop, it simply wouldn't even run. Couldn't get it to play at all.

    I'm returning it now for a refund, but I'm out the shipping charge. So, screw Atlantic records for perpetrating this crap on me as a consumer. I'm really tempted to rip the tracks using Audiograbber [com-us.net] (which reads the copy-protected CD's audio tracks just fine, thank you very much!) and distribute them just out of spite. I spit on such tactics - pah!

    A disgruntled customer,

    Joe G.
    Bishop, CA

  • People don't matter (Score:3, Interesting)

    by program21 ( 469995 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @04:07PM (#4550863) Homepage Journal
    It seems to be that more and more in today's society, people don't matter. MONEY matters. The RIAA is doing anything and everything it can to make more money, and politicians are taking 'contributions' (which to me consitutes bribery in many cases) to introduce/help push/vote for legislation that screws people while allowing companies to make more money.
  • by feldsteins ( 313201 ) <scott.scottfeldstein@net> on Monday October 28, 2002 @04:18PM (#4550962) Homepage
    77% of consumers believe they should be allowed to copy CD's for personal use

    Yeah but 99% of consumers will be totally unaware whether the CD in their hot little hands at Best Buy is "crippled" or not. Nor will they care enough to put it back if you pointed out the warning label. It's one thing to ask a question and to have people agree in principle...and quite another to gague the extent to which such an agreement might influence actual behavior. My guess is that it won't influence it enough to deter the RIAA from making a good go of crippled CDs.
  • "Personal Backups" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by erik_fredricks ( 446470 ) on Monday October 28, 2002 @08:22PM (#4552620)
    Now, whenever I use that term, most people assume it's a nice way of saying "pirate copy." Thing is, many of my cds are imports or out-of-print obscurities, and I don't want to leave them in the car, where they get exposed to heat, scratching or possible theft. In fact, at $18USD a pop, I don't want to leave my regular cds in the car either, which is why I've got a holder with about 40 CDRs under my seat. It just makes life easier.

    Since I'm already paying a hidden fee that the RIAA's been building in to the cost of cds since the PMRC hearings in the '80's, and I'm paying an extra tax built into the cost of the CDR discs thanks to RIAA lobbying, they're already gouging me twice for the privelege of doing something to which I'm legally entitled anyway.

    With the advent of these "copy-proof" cds, I have yet to see any mention of either of those taxes going away. As far as I can tell, I'd still be paying both those premiums, even if every cd on the market was 100% copy-proof. God bless America.

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