Hilary Rosen Defeated at Oxford Union 377
yogi writes "Oxford University Students' Union had a debate last Thursday, titled This House believes that 'the free music mentality is a threat to the future of music.'. Ordinarily, not too exciting, but since it is the Oxford Union, they get Hilary Rosen to speak. She lost the debate, and had to have pictures like this taken. Read the writeup at NTK, or a more detailed one here. I especially like the bit where she asked all the file downloaders whether it made them buy more music."
where can I get one of those T-shirts? (Score:3, Interesting)
Jack Valenti (Score:4, Interesting)
what was the "different and confusing" set? (Score:5, Interesting)
I call BS on this. What was the "different and confusing" set she asked for? I have a feeling it was the interesting part of this exchange... pop culture already tells us we should raise our hands for these first two questions.
Re:Debate is getting old (Score:5, Interesting)
Did she learn something? (Score:5, Interesting)
Now let's just hope Mrs. Rosen learned a bit from this, and, even better, passes it on to others. Chances are they'll just steam on as they go, and not mind their customers. They're just a source of money, and not of real importance, after all.
A good quote (Score:5, Interesting)
Here's some sage advice (from here [slashdot.org] originally): "If you really want a change, don't vote for either party -- vote Libertarian if you're on the right, Green Party if you're on the left, and independant otherwise. Both parties are in the pockets of big business, and that's bad both for those who advocate freedom from the government as well as those who despise deregulation.
The more we have third party, the closer we get to fairer, European-style representation."
Courage or stupidity ? (Score:5, Interesting)
About the filesharing issue? Depends on wether you recognize intellectual property as a valid concept or not...
Re:Debate is getting old (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe to us, but to normal folks, especially those who are from 40-70 (and who control most of our culture, even if we'd rather not remember that) it is not at all an open and shut case--I've had to explain and discuss these issues numerous times with parents, uncles, coworkers, etc.
We may know how we feel, but mainstream culture still can be swayed, and the RIAA knows that.
Opposition Quote (Score:4, Interesting)
One, anyone knows what the fuck he means by calling filesharing a style of music? Two, what's so terrible about filesharing... that's more terrible than, say, swapping bootlegs? Seems like p2p has created a whole lot more interest in music since the late 90s... whatever.
Re:Debate is getting old (Score:3, Interesting)
i wanna kill this antiquated centralized distribution model
i don't wanna get fucked anymore by this status quo some coddle
don't let fear keep us bound here.
look across this threshold before it closes up forever
see the hate and rage of chaos see the swarming hell hell hell
fear is natural before the refining fires of change,
you must be afraid but do it anyway
i already fell fell fell
don't let fear keep us bound here.
own yourself, remember where the message comes from
think again, once you have it figured out
ask not, what this world owes you -- it owes you shit.
what will you make of it?
status quo's the real foe, this hell we call these tiny lives
giving up our tiny souls to dead unliving corporations
zombies defend rights of them to won us make us wear their name tags
providing the machinery to keep us working intheir gulags
don't let fear keep us bound here.
time is split and this short fit of choice will quickly pass pass pass
now's our only chance ot make a change that will last
tectonic forces are already moving to intercept you
if we make no move to fuck them, only we will lose lose lose
i ask again: if not now, then when?
-Power Shift by my band The Overprivileged [theoverprivileged.com]
Re:Finally the great question is answered... (Score:5, Interesting)
The real question about the recording industry is do they have calculators?
A tape or lp at the time of the cd switch was far cheaper than an CD. But now that CD production is more efficient the cost should have come down some. But it hasn't. Cds are still in the 16-20 dollar range where as tapes at the same time were in 10-12.you think that cd's would have dropped?
Why don't we buy CDs? Because the price is prohibitive. On top of that the RIAA has made no friends with fans with the crackdowns and wacky copyright protection schemes.
Now the MPAA is doing the same thing with DVDs. And you know that the DVD won't drop either.
Off topic but... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Finally the great question is answered... (Score:5, Interesting)
It is too bad that the artists that already have made a fair amount of money (and that are fairly famous) don't start there own label that sells music online by the song (yes I know about rhapsody, but they require a monthly fee) or that sell the discs for $12 bucks instead of 20.
In fact, wouldn't it be COOL if you could listen to the songs online at a low bitrate, then buy the cd, and while it is shipping to you, it lets you download the album in your format of choice.
--Joey
Re:Debate is getting old (Score:4, Interesting)
I wonder if your experience with this was anything like mine. Everyone I've had to explain it to didn't really see why it was illegal in the first place.
"It's not like they've stolen the CD out of a record shop."
Seems that "Intellectual Property" is a vague concept some people seem to have a hard time grasping...
Just to clear things up -- I'm a firm believer in copyrights. I'm also a firm believer in free sharing of information. Somewhere in the middle between one side and the other is a realistic ground where things will sometimes be illegal and sometimes be legal and sometimes be hard to define. I both buy and download music, though... so...
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
1 company, 2 camps (Score:3, Interesting)
Chris : Doug, you know, the board has been thinking about your future here with the company...
Doug : Yes, really?
Chris : Well, with the beliefs that you have espoused, and your stance on some matters, we've been thinking that it might be time for you to move on to other projects...
Doug : Remember those pictures of Hilary, you, and an inflatable sheep? Well, I still have the negatives...
Chris :
on a side note, is anyone really surprised by their defeat? they are wrong on most of these issues, and really have very little evidence other than FUD to back anything they say. no big surprise there.
Why don't they start arresting people? (Score:4, Interesting)
I told the FBI about someone that is linked to credit card identity theft and presented the evidence. This person also told me he downloads mp3's of popular music, burns cd's, and sells them to friends, which I related to the FBI as well. Why has there not been an investigation?
Popular music is a joke and its thieves are even more of one. If it is such a horrible crime, why doesn't the FBI and RIAA start making some arrests?
Sounds like her fault (Score:5, Interesting)
And the big "raise your hand" thing doesn't prove anything. It is like "proving" someone has no business talking about African economics if they have never been there. It is all opinion and subjective, like those CNN polls.
In the end I just see this as broadening the rift. She now can be assured that most students out there are "pirating" music and thus beyond communication. Likewise everyone else here is treating this like it means anything. The RIAA will probably just go and get more federal signatures while we sit around feeling all good about this "victory". And its that sort of thinking that will probably mean we will never get the compromise we ask for.
Demanding total victory is asking for total defeat.
Re:Jack Valenti (Score:3, Interesting)
Only for greedy, shrill children who lack imagination. To wit:
In the case of music:
In the case of movies:
In the case of software:
Schwab
Re:Married? (Score:4, Interesting)
Even if she was your type, I don't think she'd be interested in you. Look here. [lesbiannews.com] The person that she is married to, if she is in fact married, is missing something that most of us Slashdot readers have. (I won't go any further than that. I'm assuming most here are males and have not had some kind of freakish accidents).
Re:Debate is getting old (Score:5, Interesting)
What I find strange is that she accepted this debate in the first place. Surely she must have known what she was getting into?
Re:Opposition Quote (Score:3, Interesting)
Given the recent proliferation of laptops with CDRW drives, this has become less of an issue. Not too many people will let you take their CD home with them, but most of them will let you borrow it for five or six minutes while you rip it. You don't even need CDRW for this part. Just rip to WAV (or AIFF I guess) and encode on your own time.
If you can be in the same room with the CD, most people will let you put it in their drive.
DATs don't cost so much BTW, but I've never seen a high-speed dubbing deck for DAT. I'm sure they exist but the fact that I've never seen one indicates to me that they are probably expensive.
Breaking the law (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm sorry, but I simply don't just see the law as right and prohibitions that I should take for granted. I have a mind of my own. If I want a law overturned the easiest way will be to show people how much better the world is without that law, i.e. breaking it.
Especially if the law was passed over my head, against my will and the will of my peers. If the law contradict our ethics and morals. How can we be espected to abide by it?
The geeks created the beauty of the p2p nets, decentralized infrastructures of information and art (and hot grits, but that's beside the point). Was it illegal? Possibly (the law is vague). Was it a Good Thing? Yes. It's beautiful. It's functional. It's practical.
We've seen no decline in production of free software and of free, alternative music, free books and free documentation.
Interesting times and I'm almost holding my breath with anticipation.
Lessig v. Valenti debate at EFF (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Jack Valenti (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, but nobody said that they were reasonable or honest prices to begin with. In most industries, prices will fall or the companies do. In the few which have such... influence, the consumers buy by the Leaders' terms or they'll be legislated into a box where there are no other terms at all.
Interesting tidbit on piracy... (Score:3, Interesting)
Jay Benson was the interesting one (Score:1, Interesting)
Anyway, daydreams of celebrity deathmatch aside Rosen wasn't that interesting. Jay Berman was interesting, he's President of the Federation of Phonographic Industries who among other things lobby for new copyright laws. He was the one who came out with
"Each generation has had their own music. For your generation it's filesharing. And I think thats a pretty terrible thing"
Now if its the case that the record industry suddenly doesn't like its audience anymore thats interesting. Its damn difficult to sell things to people who you don't like. It may also mean that even the industry don't think they're being strictly 'rational' about this anymore, if folks like Berman and Rosen belive that they have some kind of moral obligation to kill filesharing for the good of mankind this one could run and run