Intel to Build DRM into Next-Generation CPUs 952
mdecerbo writes "The Boston Globe is reporting
that next year's Intel processors will include
hardware support for Microsoft's "Palladium"
DRM system. There are chilling privacy implications. AMD, here I come."
I have an idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Does this really matter? (Score:4, Insightful)
Point/Counterpoint (Score:3, Insightful)
The vast majority of people (read; the EULA oblivious) will not adopt it anyway and;
Microsoft will not make it impossible to talk to untrusted machines.
I won't draw any conclusions from this and I won't talk about how the world is going to hell in a digital handbasket, but it's food for thought.
25 Million Mac users stand up and applaud (Score:5, Insightful)
While i've been telling my Windows colleagues that this was coming - none of them believed.
And now - bonus - XP.5 and Intel both, in the same week - prove me right.
God.. its good to buy from the "most dangerous company to Intellectual Property today"
Re:Sorry but... (Score:2, Insightful)
I will buy Taiwan Hardware, I scrap My Harley Davidson and Buy and Daewoo right now
AMD will do whatever MS says (Score:5, Insightful)
Did you guys forget the rumors that Microsoft's support of X86-64 was due to AMD standing behind them?
If Intel is doing this, AMD will be right behind them. They'll do anything to preserve their relationship with Microsoft.
Don't get me wrong, I love AMD, but they're just as corporate as the rest of the semiconductor industry.
No AMD for me as well (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't think you'll find much comfort in AMD. They are in that DRM working group with MS & Intel. They are also much more eagar to suck up to MS. Their ex-CEO Jerry Whatever said something like: "Wake up, MS has won. I ain't supporting Linux.." in that interview a couple of months ago (it was posted here). I think more appropriate response is: VIA/Apple here I come!
Can't this be turned off? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Who cares? (Score:0, Insightful)
overhead (Score:2, Insightful)
Time to bug out! (Score:3, Insightful)
This will only encourage my move towards Apple stuff - or Motorola and IBM announced hardware DRM as well?
Re:Who cares? (Score:3, Insightful)
You might want to look at the poll today. At this time only 34% are Linux users and 47% are using 95 thru XP.
Besides, eventually Linux will not be 'allowed' to run on this processor. So you *better* care.
Re:I have an idea (Score:2, Insightful)
So, yes, the best way to stop this technological inflation is simply to exploit what we have to the most of their capicities
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, this affects everyone. Mind you, I'm told that Palladium will always be able to be shut off via the BIOS, so you can always buy a Palladium-enabled processor and make it act as if it isn't. That's not the problem, really.
The problem is that Palladium is hardware-embedded Digital Rights Denial. It's paving the way for music and movies that won't play at all unless you have a Palladium-enabled processor. And if you do enable Palladium, you'll be subject to the same restrictive crap that the media cartels have been trying unsuccessfully to push over the last several years. Movies that you can't move to other computers, and that only work as long as you remain subscribed to MovieConglomerate.com or wherever your got them.
Will this all work out in the long run? Well, it depends on how people react. If they continue to reject hightly restricted content, we should be fine. If not, well, say goodbye to the Open Internet. It was fun while it lasted.
Re:Put on your tinfoil hat!! (Score:2, Insightful)
Just because we're not required to use it doesn't mean it won't do anything. When Microsoft controls 95% of the desktop market, and they're regulating those desktops, that gives them a lot of power. And they've proven that they'll stoop low to push out competition.
I won't go any further than that, it would be speculation, but don't tell me that because we're not forced into buying it that it doesn't affect us.
That also doesn't take into account the wonderful people in Congress who are looking at the TCPA as law.
The future, viruses, and adoption (Score:2, Insightful)
Also, I think the adoption rate of people Using this will be low. I know MS will want everyone to run only certified and signed code - but will a critical mass of companies actually agree to (pay?) MS 'approving' there software? And how is this going to work with security breaches in software? What if a piece of software is found to be exploitable, and hijacked into spreading viruses?
I don't think enough software will be signed to allow the average user to only run signed software.
Also, ppl like to own things they purchase. Video On Demand is an interesting idea, but there are lots of problems that keep people away from it. Worries about losing the connection, a crash and having to reboot (and losing the 2$ spent to do it), watching things on a computer screen, archiving, connection speed problems.. the list goes on, and when you add in the whole DRM stuff, it's a lot less attractive..
So I don't see enough people trying to get content that will rely on this feature either.
All in all I think it will kill itself - though I admit to still being worried it succeeds. The possible bad future is too severe to be ignored.
Re:AMD will do whatever MS says (Score:1, Insightful)
You mean "right in front of them" right? AMD already announced they were supporting this.
AMD won't be immune (Score:2, Insightful)
Suffice to say, all of this is going to blow.
Re:Sorry but... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Put on your tinfoil hat!! (Score:2, Insightful)
Now consider the fact that there will be a huge amount of money (i.e. the content providers) pushing legislation to make certain that ALL computers are sold with DRM. How long do you think that will take? I'm sure they'll be doing it 'for the children', too.
Re:I have an idea (Score:2, Insightful)
This could be a good way for smaller chipmakers to break into the market. If they refuse to quit selling non-DRM processors, they'll guarentee themselves plenty of geek customers.
Not as funny as you might think (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, once they hammer all the fun out of it by making it like cable TV what's the fucking point?
What will China and other countries do? (Score:4, Insightful)
It doesn't seem like a very smart business decision to lock yourself out of the fastest-growing market in the world.
Re:I have an idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's all just keep our current computers.
I have a better idea: just don't buy a computer with Intel Inside. Let 'em incorporate as many DRM gadgets as they want. Then we buy as many non-DRM compliant gadgets as we want.
In other words, let 'em spawn a whole new market and let theirs wither on the corporate cube vine -- the only place you'll find DRM 'puters in large numbers.
Palladium is waaay overblown (Score:3, Insightful)
Palladium comes down to copy protection of *Windows* software and music in *Windows*, and can, in any event, be disabled.
Worst case Windows users can crack software to make it play even with Palladium turned off, which is pretty much what people already do to attack copy protection on software.
How does it affect us? Why should we care?
And answering "Because MS will make Windows not talk to Linux and isolate it", as some other poster did in these responses, is not good enough. MS has been trying to keep Windows from talking to Linux for a long time.
Yes this does Matter. (Score:2, Insightful)
In short, no.
Consider that if you ever need to pass data from DRM equipped computers to yours, you may need to have DRM installed in order to simply view it.
When everything from a word-processed document to e-mail is encrypted with DRM technologies, and only DRM equipped machines can unencrypt them, you have a *serious* problem.
Re:Sorry but... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the craziest thing that I have ever heard. The processor guys should be happy when someone "borrows" software or uses their computer to rip their CDs to Oggs. Every cent that Intel's and AMD's customers spend on software and media content is one more cent that they aren't spending on computer hardware. More importantly, sharing media and software is increasingly what people want to do with their computers. Given the choice of an old slow PC that allows them to rip MP3s and a new computer that doesn't (and that costs a pile of money) many folks are going to choose to stick with their old hardware. If AMD and Intel think that the PC market it soft now, just wait until they start treating their customer like criminals. Especially since you don't really need a new computer unless you are working with multimedia. If all you want to do is some word processing your old machine is almost certainly fast enough.
You want to know when Linux is going to be truly ready for the home desktop? It will be ready when Microsoft starts really pushing Palladium. Until that time users in North America and Europe will gladly pay a little extra to stick with what they already know (Windows). When Microsoft makes it impossible for people to use their computers like they want, all of a sudden folks are going to realize that Linux isn't that hard to use after all.
These companies are writing their own epitaph.
Re:redhat and AMD. (Score:5, Insightful)
Welcome to the future, where you have to get permission to run computer instructions. The penalty for "hacking" this system is $500,000 and 5 years in prison. That's right. If you figure out a clever way to play an MP3 file on your TCPA machine, you're eligible for more time than a drunk driver that killed someone is.
Re:Does this really matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
Shortly thereafter, expect MS "enhancements" to IE that can allow web sites to disable the view source, copy, paste, and print functions on web pages. You'll have to have palladium enabled to view those sites.
You'll start see processor ads relating the processor to the internet that aren't lying. "See more of the internet with the new Intel Pentium 6 processor."
Welcome to the Microsoft only internet. You'll have to purchase a new computer and OS license to participate.
Re:Everyone Should Read This (Score:2, Insightful)
-B
It's easy to disable, but it won't help (Score:3, Insightful)
The real question is how obnoxious Microsoft will make the OS restrictions.
Incidentally, we ought to be seeing some Palladium-enabled games soon, ones where modified clients can be detected by the server. That will be how the technology gets debugged.
Re:25 Million Mac users stand up and applaud (Score:3, Insightful)
Sorry, Mac will lose too (Score:3, Insightful)
Very simply:
1. Palladium-encrypted (broken) content media helps keep Content Industries (contrast with: Artists) alive by giving them control, so they like it.
2. As soon as it's profitable to do so, the CIs will Palladium-encrypt (break) every piece of media they can.
3. When Palladium is available everywhere, it will be profitable for the CIs to digitally Palladium-encrypt (break) every piece of Mass Market Content that they create.
4. Any piece of Palladium-encrypted content--DVD, Music CD, software program--that is not signed will fail to play unless Palladium is there to decrypt it.
5. The MS monopoly (and Intel's and AMD's respective complicity in that monopoly) can make sure that Palladium is available almost everywhere at once.
6. When broken content is the norm, Mac and Linux will not be able to use that content any more without supporting Palladium.
7. Mac and Linux will have to either support Palladium or (illegally!!, in the US) circumvent it to be useful.
8. Linux is not an organization, so it will likely go in both directions at once.
9. Mac is an organization, and it will probably not support circumvention.
This is very, very bad. Our best hope is for a severe Microsoft anti-trust penalty, and for our legislators to wise up and stop passing laws to prop up business plans.
What to do with friends who pirate? (Score:3, Insightful)
I've talked to this person and they say "Oh, I just copy movies I wouldn't rent anyway." (I assume because they are too expensive) They have a valid point since some products are just ridiculously expensive. But they are not helping the problem. If they spent their effort protesting, or finding alternatives as they did pirating, we would be in good shape. I would probably be better off paying them $10/month and having them rent the movies, than to spend it writing letters.
What should I do? Do I turn them in? Do I hassle them? Do I pay them to stop doing it? It's my rights they are taking away, but turning them in seems ridiculous. Is there somethnig we can do in mass that could prevent this problem?
Re:Not as funny as you might think (Score:4, Insightful)
"I mean, once they hammer all the fun out of it by making it like cable TV what's the fucking point?"
Hey, it was inevitable. Really.
Let's look at how the other "media" have fared:
"Knowledge is power." But knowledge doesn't travel by itself, it must be communicated. He who controls that communication controls everything. The wealthy and powerful know this, and will always strive to control what we see, hear, and hence, what we think. That's why every means of communication will inexorably move from one-to-one to a broadcast paradigm.
Why should networked personal computers be any different?
Re:Does this really matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
Their model is not based on locking people in at the hardware level. Rather they're trying to build a web of interdependence.
You need to decide if there's something you can't live without which is tied into Palladium (or anything else, for that matter.) If you decide you can't live without the latest Video game, which runs only under Palladium, then you'll be running Palladium. If some Top 40 boy band hit is your only reason for living, you'll either buy the DRM-protected CD, or you'll do without. Microsoft's strategy is to build a web (no relation to html or http) of interdependence which involves your paying money to them at some point. You can always choose to avoid microsoft, but you'll have to also choose to live without everything tied into them as well.
Some examples: Perhaps you've decided that you can't live without a call phone. So Microsoft builds a dependency between having a cell phone and using windows: an earlier slashdot story relates how this was done through Verison using the requirement for a Microsoft Passport.
Another common example is the proliferation of Internet Explorer-only web pages. If you can't live without a certain web site, and that site goes IE-only, then you'll be running Microsoft software for as long as you need that site, and you'll be running IE under Windows just as soon as Microsoft feels they can drop support for other operating systems.
It begs the question of how long it will be before such common necessities as voting, cashing a paycheck, getting a drivers license, applying for a job, paying your bills, accessing healthcare, etc will require an active account with Microsoft? I suspect it will happen rather sooner that most of us expect, after all, for the majority of people who already use a Microsoft product at home or at work, such a requirement is not a barrier because it's already met. For them that day has already passed, and we didn't even notice as it flew by.
It's the same model Red Hat is using to maintain and build their customer base, despite the claim that all of their software is free and open. Try installing a kernel source package from the Red Hat 7.3 distribution onto a system using Red Hat 7.2 without forcing against the dependencies. The package dependencies are built such that eventually you have to upgrade RPM itself to the 7.3 level, which cannot be done (AFAIK) using RPM on a live system. To use 7.3 packages, you have to install (or upgrade to) 7.3.
We already have the same dependencies built into the telephone; try to get a job, access government services, or get emergency assistance without a telephone. The result there was a monopoly (for decades) in a single, highly regulated, provider. The phone company was authorized to charge you out the wazoo for basic phone service, and develop new innovations at a snails-pace, prevent you from attaching unapproved equipment to their system (at one time it was illegal to attach a plastic cone to the receiver to block outside noise).
But I wonder: If we hog-tie our technology innovation as much as we did with the development of telecommunications, will the tech industries of our foreign compettitors be as willing to wait for us to get our act together? Or will they just write us off as yet anoyther former technology leader who couldn't keep their act together?
Re:Does this really matter? (Score:2, Insightful)
However, when you say
well, I get nervous.
You're forcing average consumers to pick between seeing their HotMail accounts, cruising various Disney sites and playing cool games vs seeing the websites of a few malcontents who don't want to keep up with progress (and that is how we'd be labeled by the powers that be).
At best this would polarize the camps even more than they are today.
Re:Palladium is waaay overblown (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't have to. Even if Microsoft owns some patent, it doesn't change anything. Their patent is not valid where I live. It even seems to be the case, that I'm allowed to reverse engineer their software, if that is the only way to get Linux running.
And then you might say, Microsoft can do enough lobying to get other products forbidden by law. Now I'm gonna compare this to countries that already have laws limiting peoples freedom. What do we say about people breaking the laws in those countries? Do we call them criminals? No, we don't, we say they are fighting for their freedom.
I guess in case laws are changed in favour of Microsoft, I'm willing to violate them, because I think that is the right thing to do.
Re:Does this really matter? (Score:4, Insightful)
You can hide your head in the sand and pretend that you don't want to polarize people over this, but that will result in an "optional DRM" becoming the non-optional standard, and then in a few years DRM will become mandatory.
The critical factor is that we must have better content value than them. Disney and the "cool games" sites you refer to will be for pay, so I definitely think this is possible.
The other side has chosen the route of polarizing, not us. They will only deliver content to people who adopt a certain subserviant mentality and technology. We must make people understand that in addition to accepting shackles, they lose access to things they like.
The only route that leads to information freedom is to polarize and then extinguish the other side.
Re:Palladium is waaay overblown (Score:2, Insightful)
which is quickly becoming irrelevant in the worldwide technology landscape. The world is
a very big place, with more than just one country.
Those other countries want a piece of the action.
Re:I have an idea (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't live in the US, so no matter what I do an say, I cannot affect anything that happens within its borders, especially its laws and technology that will eventually get pimped out to where I reside.
The more and more that I read on, I realize that unless you too can buy a senator / congressman or outbid the RIAA, or Disney. The US will be nothing more than a government for hire.
We (those of us who read sites like
That leaves really no options to fight any of this, save one:
We can code, we can design, and we can still use our power as consumers. I'm saying look at projects like Open Office, and KOffice. Those are potential MS killers if they are brought up to speed, as right now they still need work and can't really do what the MS Office can do with the same ease of use that joe user can understand and use without frustration.
This is our power that we can all use to make a far bigger dent and threat to the MS Wintel empire that we all know and (i'm sure ) just love to pieces. I really feel that this will make a much stronger impact, than the occasional ignored letter to the senator (as much as I do appreciate the effort, I think unless that letter includes a 3 million $$$ campaign contribution, it might fall upon deaf ears)
Just my
Re:I have an idea (Score:2, Insightful)
This is the MPAA, and the RIAA. They 'reached' MS and Intel and AMD and...
MS will take advantage of this; of that there is no doubt. Every vendor will jump on the bandwagon, as software piracy is a thing of the past once HW+SW DRM arrives and becomes mainstream. What vendor would turn away from the chance to either eliminate piracy of their software or to bring in additional revenue from those who would take it, and who cannot do without product ABC?