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Using Consumer Data to Hunt Terrorists 36

Posted by Hemos from the misguided-sacrifices dept.
A reader writes: "Our biggest privacy issues might not be Internet auditors after all. The federal government may be using consumer data to hunt for terrorists, including private information with the cooperation of companies or individual employees. Apparently an IT/marketing employee turned over buying records from a national grocery store chain to investigators and the company hid that violation from its customers. The story mentions, toward the end, the Gilmore lawsuit that was discussed on /. but goes way beyond that issue. http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0230/baard.php "
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Using Consumer Data to Hunt Terrorists More

Using Consumer Data to Hunt Terrorists

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  • Do they mean terrorists that blow up stuff or "terrorists" that download things illegaly?

    I can't really tell.

  • Inch by inch... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Analog Penguin ( 550933 ) on Monday July 29, 2002 @09:31AM (#3971080)
    ...our rights erode away. When will enough people pick up on what's going on to actually SAY or DO something about it? Maybe you can call this a small step from yesterday (I don't), but when are we going to stop and look at how many "small steps" we've taken??

    • Oh yeah, this (Score:2, Informative)

      by Analog Penguin ( 550933 )
      This site has a good write-up:

      NoCards.org [nocards.org]
    • There's only so much you can do. As well as the normal participating in petitions and voting for governmental candidates who seem to support freedom, promoting competitive software etc., I do my best to avoid these systems of automatic detection.

      I don't carry a credit card, or store cards. If I want to buy something over the 'net, I'll phone the shop and post them a cheque, or send cash by registered post. I have a debit card, but normally use it just to take out cash at the same ATM. If I'm leaving town, I'll get enough cash to cover my ticket and my expenses (I tend to try and regulate my withdrawals to the same amount a week regardless of what I'm doing).

      I walk the long way home to avoid CCTV cameras. Only five minutes out of my way, and much prettier. I try to buy from smaller, local stores to support local business.

      Sure, there are small inconveniences, but on the whole I'm happy.
  • By harvesting consumer data, the Federal Government not only encroaches on our fundamental rights and freedoms of privacy but is frittering away its' time and funds that could be spent on much more fruitful ventures. The last thing we need is to have our groceries screened for possible terrorist applications... I mean, why in God's name would there be something sold in a grocery store that would help Osama and his ilk?!??
    This new move by the Bush Administration is in violation of our constitution and everything America stands for. Is this his best Gorbachev impression, or something?
    The fact is, this 'war on terror', if it is to be waged at all, should not target the American civilians who are funding it, let alone in such a redundant and violating way.
    • Go back several years in the UK, and buying fertaliser while being Irish could get your name on the UK Intelligence files.

      Note to none terrorists: Nitrate Ferterliser can be used as an explosive.

      How ever explosives can be made from:

      Fireworks, custerd powder, curry powder, talc ...

      Timers can be baught under the generic terms clocks, and watches.

      Power sauces for the electric bits, tecnically called 'battries' can be baught from 'Hardware' Stores, as can projectiles sutch as nails and glass as well as plastic coated extruded copper, called 'wire' that can be used to carry an electric current.

      Detailed construction plans can be got from the Internet, which as all right thinking people know should be shut down imidiatly as it is used soley by terrorists to communicate.

      Terrorists also use mobile phone networks to communicate so we should shut thoes down.

      They also use snail mail to post boms and demands, as well as communicate with each other so we need to block them.

      This just leves carrier pidgions. So I have decided that as a preemptive strike against terrorists we should shoot all the pidgions.

      Thank you and good night!
      • The internet couldn't possibly be used by the terrorists, as with the amount of porn on it in every domain their eyes would be seared by a picture of a naked woman before they could download any sort of plans for a bomb.
        With all the renamed files on P2P programs, Osama Bin Laden's buddies are more likely to download sorority sex kittens 5 than anything harmful.
    • A couple points:
      first: there is no constitutional right regarding consumer data

      Second: Gorbachev brought free market reform to Russia opening the way hrough Perestroika to the west

      This administration does not compare (ie...they are taking away freedom).

  • The dilbert prophecies.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by pwagland ( 472537 ) on Monday July 29, 2002 @09:33AM (#3971086) Journal
    This [dilbert.com] dilbert just seems so prophetic....

    *sigh* life imitates art again :-)

    • Saturday night I went shopping at a local grocery store that uses those cards. After the checker scanned all my items she asked if I had a "Super Saver Card." I told her "No" and she started in on her spiel about how I'll get all kinds of coupons and special offers and how I can get up to 20% off on selected items whenever I use the card.

      Then to demonstrate she ran the store's card through the scanner. The register beeped and printed a line on the reciept. "See", she said, "It's just that easy!"
      "So how much did I save?" I asked.
      She checked the receipt, "Um, well, nothing this time. But you could save up to 20 % on selected items!"
      "No thanks", I said.

      • Feh.. you guys need to swap the cards around more often.

        Visit:
        http://epistolary.org/rob/bonuscard/
        http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/25626.html

        I make it a point to swap my cards with my buddies every few months or so. It would be fun to see the looks on the faces of the Data Miners at the local KwikiMart when the single Belgian guy suddenly starts buying enough curry and Indian groceries to feed a family of 4... <grin>

        • Actually, we had a housemate who registered for the grocery card, and of course gave the house phone number. He's long since moved out, but since you can just type the phone number (rather than swipe the card), well, that's what I do. It is my house, after all...

          So for a while, things like diapers and formula no doubt were showing up in his single-guy profile.

          Yeah, it's all bad data, mostly.

      • Maybe that store is different, but many of those stores jack up the non-card prices. So you would be "saving" money with the card at that store, however the card price be the same as a store without cards. The card stores are a rip-off no matter what way you look at it.

      • Re:The dilbert prophecies.... (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I work as a cashier in one of those stores, and ask for the card. Here are a couple of anecdotes to illustrate people's views of it.
        1. This one techy guy, when I asked him "do you have a [my store's name] card?" just perked up with "Nope!" I said, okay, and started scanning his groceries, but mentioned, by the by, that shame on him for not letting us track his buying preferences. He told me, heh! he's worked with security and data mining, he knows what we're about. I said, yeah, sure, of course you're not a terrorist. But see those cameras there and there? They'll be correlated with you, as well as everyone else who cheerfully refuses to allow themselves to be tracked. It'll be 27.34, please? Okay, out of 40 cash -- and here I make a point of examining the serial numbers, and tell him, Ah, nevermind, fresh pristine ATM bills. You're as good as identified now. I'm sorry for the terrorist stuff before, but -- and $2 dollars and 66 cents will be your change -- but you do understand that these are issues of national security. It's okay, though, I don't blame you for wanting not to be tracked. But have you heard of the Patriot act? Well pretty soon it won't be a choice. Have a nice day. (then to next customer). Hi, how are you doing today? Thanks for your patience. Do you have a [my store] card? (Why yes, as a matter of fact, I do...)
        2. Sometimes when cusomters say they have a (my store) card I'll tell them "What a good little consumer you are! -- Letting us track your buying preferences". This one woman said: "Hey, if it means I can save a few bucks, you can camp outside my apartment and tape-record my home life."

  • Better Title (Score:2, Insightful)

    by gunner800 ( 142959 )
    "Terrorism Used as Excuse to Hoard Consumer Data".

    When will we stop acting surprised, and start acting to prevent this crap?

  • Straw into Gold? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by InfoGeek ( 596815 ) <[lib7tech] [at] [yahoo.com]> on Monday July 29, 2002 @12:03PM (#3972086) Journal
    LMAO. Please. I'm supposed to be worried by this? Loyalty card programs have been around a while and have become infamous for generating huge heaps of useless data. Two years ago Safeway in Great Britain dropped its program because "We were collecting an awful lot of data that didn't mean anything".(WSJ, 6/19/02).

    Now some marketing drone has foisted what is quite likely an equally worthless heap of data onto the Feds. Am I supposed to be worried that they'll be any better at data mining? I'm more worried about what they'll miss while they're wasting my tax dollars writing code to find out who bought falafel with their Pampers.

    Don't call EFF. Call John Stossel and Citizens Against Government Waste (http://www.cagw.org)

    • Oops. Date of WSJ article should be 6/19/00.
    • It's people who think that, just because they are buying Pampers and falafel, that they don't need to worry about government search/seizure issues. When we stop saying "get the hell out of my private life" and start saying, "well, they'll get so much useless stuff that it's not worth worrying about anyway", even if what they are searching through seems trivial, that we begin the slope toward facism. It doesn't matter if it's Pampers and falafel-- it's still illegal... and the more we smile and nod and continue on thinking everything is rosy, the faster our rights will be eroded. Given this political climate, you should be very worried. Your tax dollars and their use are important, of course, but your constitutional right against illegal search and seizure should be the top priority. I don't care if my data is useless... I still don't want it mined.

      • Re:Straw into Gold? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Tackhead ( 54550 )
        > It's people who think that, just because they are buying Pampers and falafel, that they don't need to worry about government search/seizure issues.

        And that's the worst part.

        I've got nothing against the proper use of profiling and data mining to hunt down the enemies in our midst - but what's proposed is too-easily defeated. It smells like a scam to bring in consulting bucks, and offers no real security.

        Suppose we tune our food-purchasing-database scanners to look for of Arab males under 30 who happen to live, work, and travel together. (Snide remark: ...because we know goddamn well the fucktwaddles at the airport won't catch them, as said fucktwaddles are too busy patting down your mother and feeling up your daughter to watch for groups of Arab males under 30 travelling together.)

        But because Joe Camel knows we're looking for single Arab males under 30 who claim to live alone, yet still buy enough falafel for five people, he'll adjust his purchases to match, perhaps by buying a box of Pampers when he buys falafel for the gang. (If he's smart, he'll upgrade the size of the Pampers every few months, then start buying baby clothes.) The databases will conclude that Joe Camel has a wife and brand-new kid, which doesn't fit the profile of "terrorist", and he'll slip through the cracks.

        Meanwhile, Joe Slashdotter, who hosts the dorm LAN party every week where he swaps grocery cards with his friends, gets h0z3d at 3am by the f3i, because two of his friends were vegetarian, and the food-tracking software rang the alarm because his purchase records didn't make any sense. (He bought nothing for a week, then ten pounds of falafel, then nothing for another week! WTF? Call the cops!)

        Food profiling is a lousy idea because it's too easily-defeated by knowledgeable adversaries, and results in too many false positives even when not under attack by adversaries.

        • Gawdalmighty. I guess I'm smiling while the MIB food profiles (love that) me and we slide down the slippery slope to the People Republik of Amerika.

          If the F3I, N5A, etc. didn't have the wetware skills to catch on to the blips raised by the 9/11 gang in their existing systems, then their attempts to do anything with some pre-h0s3d, massive data archive is going to be a dismal, time-wasting failure. _Thats_ why I'm not worried about being food profiled.

          What does pi55 me off more than mining my grocery data is Uncle Sugar's predisposition to burrow deeper into our privacy and throw more SIGINT and software at terrorism when they don't know what to do with what they've already got, fr'chrissakes.

          This story only rates a 1 on my BlackHelicopter scale.

  • Anyone who does not use grocery discount cards. Very suspicious.

    -
  • Let's see what they think of me from my profile of the last items I purchased at Wal-Mart:

    Condoms (must be for the 72 virgins)
    K-Y Jelly (must be for the 72 sheep)
    4 boxes of Winchester S&W .40 ammo (must be for hijacking a plane)
    Mountain Dew (now I'm a cyber terrorist)
    Ramano cheese (Italian mafia terrorist!)
    Extra Virgin Olive oil (kinky bastard... He's corrupting our youth!)
    DVD of Blazing Saddles (He's learning to disguise himself, OMG!)
    Milk (he's a baby stealer too?)
    Reese's Pieces and Rolos (now he's after our women. To arms!)
    Solder and speaker wire (He's making a thermal nuclear bomb!)
    Onions (he's preparing to torture someone)
    Basalmic Vinegar (Sick freak!)
    jalepenos peppers (this is just too much! Attorney General Ashcroft, save us!)

    I wonder....

  • how potentially harmful archives of this data can be in the right hands. Something as innocent as 100 year old marriage and baptismal records was used to systematically identify and round up hundreds of thousands of people for extermination [amazon.com], using nothing more than punch-card sorters.

    In the future, these archives may very well be used to produce lists of "undesirables"; your shopping records can be used to extract lifestyle and health information, and even identify your religion (ex. - Kosher products for Jews, no alcohol or pork for Muslims, and Vegan for Hindus.)

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