Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Privacy

FCC Allows Bells to Sell Your Telephone Usage Data 508

Devistater writes "Spotted on hardocp. The FCC said in a ruling yesterday that telephone companies can sell your name, who you call, and for how long you talk to anyone who is an "affiliate." No longer is this required to be an opt in marketing approach, now its OPT OUT. Sounds like spam is coming to the telephone world, and what an egregious breach of privacy. Article on PCWorld has some of the details." There's also a short Reuters story and a good one on ecommercetimes.com.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

FCC Allows Bells to Sell Your Telephone Usage Data

Comments Filter:
  • Hmm...so now the Christian Coalition or the Republican party can buy the phone company's records of who you called and when.

    "Hello, this is Pat Robertson, I am calling to tell you that you're a sinner and condemned to burn in hell because you called 1-900-SPANK-ME and talked for 12 hours. Oh, we're also telling your boss, and reporting it to the credit agencies"

    • But imagine how great it'll be to flip that around.

      "Hello, Pat Robertson? I am calling to tell you that you're a sinner and a hypocrite condemned to burn in hell because you called 1-900-SPANK-ME and talked for 12 hours. Oh, we're also telling your cul^H^H^Hcongregation, and reporting it to the IRS"

      Man, that would be sweet.
    • because you called 1-900-SPANK-ME and talked for 12 hours.

      With staying power like that, you'd be worshipped like a god, so I wouldn't worry about it.

    • I'd be more concerned if right-to-lifers bought an abortion clinic's calling information. Forget loss of money or privacy - how about bombing or lynching?

      There's also the issue of them knowing the names of people you call now. Think about it - they know your friends names now. Imagine the junkmail they could send. The sort of social engineering we normally only see in E-Mail viruses suddenly becomes much more powerful and much more personal. They can no longer just ape your on-line life to trick you - they can ape your actual real life - you can get a snail-mail from a friend you know saying how your other friend struck it rich doing X. It is, of course a scam - but it grossly increases the maximum IQ to fall for it.
  • by jc42 ( 318812 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @08:44AM (#3908037) Homepage Journal
    This means that now all any government agency needs to do is set up a dummy corporation that's an "affiliate", and my phone company will give them unlimited access to all the data about me.

    Ya gotta admit, it's a neat end run around the laws that restrict government surveillance.

    Oh, well, I suppose as a known computer programmer, I'm already on all the lists of suspected terrorists.

    • "The FCC said in a ruling yesterday that telephone companies can sell your name, who you call, and for how long you talk to anyone who is an "affiliate."

      The question at this juncture is: goes the gov't have to pay? Or will they be able to get this information under the guise of "national security"?

      Time to dust off that anti-telemarketers script [junkbusters.com]...
    • by taloobie ( 537189 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @09:48AM (#3908525) Homepage
      This is a reply to this comment as a bunch of the other ones.

      I imagine many of the slashdotters (and many techie non-slashdotters) out there work at these Bells and all these other companies engaging in these violations of civil liberties. Wouldn't the first place to initiate change be within the corporate walls? For all of you who work at companies selling information and using technology to facilitate the exchange, why not stand up and refuse to comply with corporate wishes until the issues of civil liberties are brought up and resolved? Of course, that may mean your job, but there are lots of jobs out there and lots of ways to make money without infringing on others privacy.

      These "selling of information" activities cannot happen if there aren't people willing to build the technology to let the sales, marketing and boardrooms do whatever they want to make money. With all the news lately about corporate crooks, I'd think eventually the people that work at these companies would realize they do have power to change things. It's a matter of courage.

      There's no way we can expect most lawmakers and CEOs to change what's happening (even though they should change it!). They are already protected from civil liberty violations. They have goons working to protect what they do and how they do it. Writing them/counting on them may help but in the end most of them have no idea what's involved with all the new technology and new culture surrounding that technology -- and certainly they won't be able to adjust the laws based on a few angry customers.

      I guess the crux of my point is that there are a lot of techies out there enabling these activities. The RIAA must have techies working for them, so do the Bells, and so did Enron, on and on. Why did these techies build this stuff that let this happen? If you are one of the techies at these companies, speak up and tell us your reasoning why you build and maintain solutions that let people so easily violate our civil rights?
    • This means that now all any government agency needs to do is set up a dummy corporation that's an "affiliate", and my phone company will give them unlimited access to all the data about me.

      Yeah, what's your point? The government can tap your phone now without a warrant. They can follow you to high-school and pay the girl who sits behind you to spy on you. They can even knock down your door in the middle of the night and drag you naked through your front yard without so much as probable cause.

      Ya gotta admit, it's a neat end run around the laws that restrict government surveillance.

      Why would you think that? They don't do these things because it would be completely pointless for them to do so. If they obtain evidence in any of these ways (including buying it) the evidence is useless in court. Since law enforcement agencies purpose is to put away criminals they would simply be wasting energy collecting evidence they could never hope to use. Judges don't apprechiate "end runs" and have thrown out improperly obtained evidence when the agents collecting it "should have known better." Here's a hint: they have to act in good faith.

      It isn't "hard" for LEO to get the info they want given the legal authority to do so (and getting warrants has become somewhat easier) but if you believe that the FBI is really interested in doing serious surveilance on you without a warrant you are seriously deluded.

      • the evidence is useless in court

        What a relief! Next time a J Edgar Hoover type is running the FBI and harassing Americans who are guilty of thinking differently, and I'm all upset, I'll just remember:

        HARASSMENT IS USELESS IN COURT.

        The next time I'm pulled over on suspicion of being black in a white neighborhood, I'll comfort myself with this thought:

        HARASSMENT IS USELESS IN COURT.

        The next time some guy gets sodomized with a broomstick by people who are abusing their authority, I'll remind people that there's no harm done because HARASSMENT IS USELESS IN COURT.

        I'm don't hate or distrust the government; overall it does a pretty good job. I do have concerns about handing excess power to individuals, whether they are presidents or rookie beat cops, because humans are flawed and make stupid decisions sometimes. Oh well, at least HARASSMENT IS USELESS IN COURT.
      • I don't think I'm "deluded" in the slightest when I see all of the efforts made by the FBI over the years to obtain more flexibility in performing surveilance.

        Technically, no, maybe they'll always want a warrant first - but they're also constantly trying to make sure getting that warrant is a "no-brainer". Ideally, they'd like a search warrant to be handed out like a piece of candy. It's simply a piece of paper that makes their activity look more legitimate on the surface.

        It's not that the FBI loves collecting "evidence they could never hope to use". The problem is, technology makes it feasible to process much more raw information than ever before. If they can side-step traditional limitations on what they can and can't collect as evidence, they can start mass collection efforts, fed into computer systems, and have the machines do the work for them. Flag all the "interesting" stuff that pops up, get your warrant, and go check it out.

        How hard is it for them to claim they "acted in good faith" when their expensive software "data mining" package said someone needed to be checked out? Nevermind they kicked in some gun dealer's door at 2AM and gave his wife a heart-attack, all because the software couldn't tell those large gun purchases were just inventory for his store - as opposed to "suspected terrorist activity".
  • by Greyfox ( 87712 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @08:46AM (#3908050) Homepage Journal
    The Bells would love for you to be on tons of those obnoxious calling lists. Not only do they make money from selling your name and phone number, I'm sure it also increases their rate of sales for those extra options to block telemarketers. Sounds like a win-win for the bells.
  • by micromoog ( 206608 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @08:47AM (#3908065)
    Better opt out right away . . . anybody know how?
  • how much are they expecting to charge me now to "opt out" of this? I already pay a couple of bucks a month for the "privilege" of having an unlisted number.

  • by sdjunky ( 586961 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @08:48AM (#3908072)
    Hello Mr Smith, I'm calling today to tell you that we noticed that you are making quite a few calls to 555-555-5555. We further wish to tell you that we believe that these calls are related to you having an extramarital affair.

    We are bringing you this service to offer you a chance to keep us quiet with a one time payment of $500. Not only will you get piece of mind ( for now ) that we won't tell your wife but you'll also get a handy cookbook from Martha Stewart.

    If you don't wish to have your marriage ruined please stay on the line while I transfer this call to an independent verifier

    Have a good day!
  • What an idiot (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rhadamanthus ( 200665 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @08:51AM (#3908087)
    'But FCC Chairman Michael Powell defended the decision, saying that "consumers have a reduced expectation of privacy" regarding that data when their carriers use it "to market services customarily offered by telephone companies, such as voicemail and Internet access."'

    What a moron. I guess I should have a reduced expectation of privacy in the bathroom if it is in regards to the brand of toilet paper I use, or my preferred bar soap.

    I can't believe he thinks anyone will buy this aas anything but a cop out to corporate "donations". Too bad no one gives a damn.

    argh. Time to call the phone company and sit on hold for a million years...

    ----rhad

  • by laetus ( 45131 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @08:51AM (#3908093)
    I'm assuming they can't track that as easily.
    • I would think that it would be easier to track over VOIP. Each packet has to have sender and reciever information, and each packet is going to be traveling through a lot of hubs. Seems like a simple thing to grab. But I really have no idea how it all works.

      Slashdot - where you can prattle on concerning stuff you don't know thing one about.
    • Your ISP can certainly track whose IP address any packet goes to. Sorry.
      • by cduffy ( 652 )
        Yes, but the place the packets go to isn't always the endpoint -- folks may have a middleman who does mixing (for conference call support), VoIP->POTS translation if needed, &c. If this middleman happens to accept incoming connections via (say) SSL... no more opportunity for the user's ISP to collect and sell data.

        (Yes, the middleman's ISP or POTS service could try doing traffic analysis, and many of the methods of avoiding that which work so effectively with email would be unacceptable due to latency issues with VoIP... but anyhow, this is substantially more complicated than running a simply sniffer and collecting data on who calls who).
        • Another issue (which I forgot to mention in the parent post) is that this ruling by the FCC doesn't apply to ISPs -- they still would get sued into the ground if they tried such a stunt.
        • I'm sorry boys, but they can track it just the same as POTS (Plain old telephone service). The call setup and tear down is still done by a softswitch that collects the same CDRs (Call duration records) that a regular Class 5 Switch will collect. The ring, dial tone, busy signals are still applied to your MTA by the VoIP telco. Nothing has changed, except the ability to leverage on-net VoIP calls, saving telco costs, and increasing the telco bottom line.
  • Do what I do... pick up the phone, wait for the telemarketer and simply interrupt them right away by saying NO! and hang up.

    Yes it's an interruption but get over it. and if more people would actually say NO then telemarketing would not happen (it would cease to work as a selling medium)

    Yes it sucks to get marketing calls, but screw it. it isnt worth getting your panties all in a buch over.. Or simply have the phone company block all calls that have caller id blocked.. works great. and stops ony a very few of my relatives.
    • by passion ( 84900 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @09:02AM (#3908181)

      I've found a method that's a bit more effective. Tell them, "please remove me from your list" before they can stammer out their opening stanza. They're legally obligated to cut you from the list, and they can't make more money off your number by selling it. (at least I hope that's the way it works).

      Either way, I've noticed significantly less telemarketing calls since I started doing this.

      • actually the phrase is "please put me on your 'Do Not Call' list."

        I do that. Sometimes i tell them im interested and ask them to hold, put down the phone, and go back to whatever i was doing. Check back when i get bored, see if they are still on the line :)
      • See www.junkbusters.org [junkbusters.org] for details.
      • by mosch ( 204 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @09:47AM (#3908514) Homepage
        If you have a few minutes to spare, what's even better is to say 'I'm making an official request for your no-call policy, as I am entitled to by law. I'd like to provide you with all the information neccessary for you to mail me a copy of your no-call policy.'

        At this point they may hang up, or get confused and put you on with a supervisor who will know about this and take the information.

        Now that they have the information, request to be added to their No-Call, and No-Sell lists. By this point you've cost them a lot of phone time, often with a supervisor, plus they usually actually do mail you the no-call policy, and you get blacklisted for being a pain in the ass who knows the law, thus helping make sure you don't get any more calls.

        • by Reziac ( 43301 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @11:30AM (#3909249) Homepage Journal
          A simpler solution: inform the telemarketer in a borderline-irritated voice, "I'm *supposed* to be on your do-not-call list!" They'll about pee themselves apologizing and will hang up posthaste, and once you hit a marketer who is using a master list, you'll suddenly find you get NO more calls.

          I did this some 12-13 years ago, and since then I get maybe one or two junk calls a year (including the recorded type).

          The majority of telemarketers work from a nationally-circulated master list, so if you get removed from one call center's list, you'll fall off all of their lists. Daily News or any affiliated paper is a good one to have initially remove you, as they do use a master list.

      • by Phroggy ( 441 )
        I've found a method that's a bit more effective. Tell them, "please remove me from your list" before they can stammer out their opening stanza. They're legally obligated to cut you from the list, and they can't make more money off your number by selling it. (at least I hope that's the way it works).

        No, the correct thing to say is, "Please ADD me to your Do Not Call list." Removing you from one list doesn't mean you won't appear on another list, but if you're on the Do Not Call list, you should not get another call from the SAME COMPANY. Note that the person calling probably doesn't actually work for the company they're representing; telemarketing is outsourced, and the DNC list probably applies to the telemarketing company rather than the company who wants you to buy stuff, so you may continue to get calls from other telemarketing companies on behalf of the same company, but not from the same telemarketing company again. That may vary somewhat.

        Your state may also have a state-wide Do Not Call list; mine does [ornocall.com].
    • Put them on hold for ten minutes, and then pick up the phone again and tell them to go away. That way you have cost them 10 minutes of phone time as well.

    • What, you mean that you don't talk to them about whether they've accepted Jesus Christ into their lives as their personal Lord and Savior? :)
  • It's game time kids! And today lets play .... spot the one person in that article with his head screwed on ...

    --------> Michael Copps

    I win!

  • by idfrsr ( 560314 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @08:54AM (#3908124)
    I would hate to think of the that anytime you purchase a good or service, that your personal information will be sold to spam houses.

    The whole concept of advertising right now is getting absolutely ridiculous. It seems now that the onus is on us as consumers to pay attention to all advertisments, rather than the advertising to attract us by being clever, funny what have you. Simply by being a possible consumer, the advertiser somehow got the right to harrass me.

    What's the point of having a telephone, if I am going to be getting the ringing equivalent of pop-up windows? It's bad enough with telemarketers.
    Screw it, if any one needs to reach me, send me a damn letter (email's worse!), if its important enough for me to know it can wait a week sheesh...
    • by gosand ( 234100 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @09:54AM (#3908566)
      Screw it, if any one needs to reach me, send me a damn letter...

      You mean like:
      - You may have already won $10,000 !!!
      - You have been Pre-Approved for a credit card
      - You have won a small island in the South Pacific, call 900-SUCKERZ to claim your prize. Hurry!
      - Here is a book of coupons for shit you will never buy.
      - Please donate to some organization you have never heard of before.
      - Get 500 CDs for the price of 1 (plus shipping, handling, and handing over your soul)
      - Dear (last person who lived at this address) you have been Pre-approved for a credit card!
      - Are the bills getting you down? Debt consolidation can help.
      - A special offer just for you Homer J Simpsoy.
      - Limited Time Offer!
      - We can beat your insurance rates, and save you money $$$$.
      - Dated material, open immediately!
      - Postal Carrier, do not forward. This is a fantastic prize intended only for the recipient shown below.
      - Here is a check for $5000. By endorsing it you agree to open an account with us for that amount, with 27% interest. (this is a real one I got)
      - Dell Catalogs
      - Victoria's Secret catalogs (OK, I don't mind those)

  • Warrant? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by n-baxley ( 103975 ) <nate&baxleys,org> on Thursday July 18, 2002 @08:54AM (#3908125) Homepage Journal
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the kind of information that you needed a warrant to get? How can something that was considered private enough to require a judge's approval now be sold to the highest bidder. I seriously hope that this is not as bad as it sounds. I'm holding off writing my representatives until I see if this is real and if it really says what we're hearing. If the news is as bad as this sounds, WRITE YOUR REPRESNTATIVE!!! Don't let this action go unchallenged.
    • Re:Warrant? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jdcook ( 96434 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @09:04AM (#3908188)
      "Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the kind of information that you needed a warrant to get?"

      OK. You're wrong. Law enforcement (broadly speaking) needs a warrant. The phone company doesn't. Don't you feel better now?

    • > How can something that was considered private enough to require a judge's approval now be sold to the highest bidder.

      It probably has something to do with the fact that the US is now run by a fellow who has in all seriousness described himself as "America's CEO". He really, truly believes that the government should be run as a business.

      This is how businesses do things. If you have a product, you sell it. If we don't like this, we'll just have to find ourselves a CEO who thinks the government should be run like a government.

      Of course, we'll first have to make the presidency an elected office ...

  • by Sean Clifford ( 322444 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @08:54AM (#3908128) Journal
    WTF? Corporate free speech? Okay, first I take issue with treating corporations as legal persons. That's bull. However, on to my point:

    It is NOT a free speech issue to tell other divisions, "partners", or anyone at all for that matter who I call. I don't think this you can find a better example of violating a person's right to privacy (4th Amendment) than to sell or otherwise disseminate details about a person's personal phone calls (date, time, number, duration).

    This is a clear example of corporate takeover of government. Citizens - you're doing it to yourselves. Take political action; you don't have to quit your job. Just take a few minutes one day a week to contact your representatives to gripe and organize locally, whether you're an independent, a Green, a Republicrat or a Demopublican.

    • Corporate personhood (Score:2, Interesting)

      by MemeRot ( 80975 )
      There really is no problem with treating corporations like people. Let them have full legal rights like people. BUT also give them a limited lifespan, like people. A couple hundred years ago, corporations were typically chartered for a limited time only, to prevent exactly the kinds of problems we have now. The Dutch East India company was chartered to further a specific social goal, and then dissolved. Corporate personhood only becomes dangerous when combined with IMMORTALITY. Think about it, a person making umpteen billion dollars a year (cough, cough, Bill Gates) has a lot of power - but now imagine an IMMORTAL Bill Gates - well that's what we have with corporations. We'll never be able to re-institute limited lifespans being built into corporate charters. But we might be able to get corporate charters dissolved when the corporations are shown to have violated the law. I think the climate now is right for such a move, though there's nobody in government to sponsor such an idea.
    • What really gets me is how selling my private data can fall under the heading "free speech", but reporting on and linking to DeCSS cannot.
  • New York 'No Call' Registry [nynocall.com].

    I believe there are similar registries for other states. Every quarter, the registry is published and all non-exempt telemarketers must *not* call you if you appear in the registry under penalty of law. Getting in the registry is free and can be done from the above website, if you are a NY resident. Other posters can probably give URL's or addresses for other state registries.

    -Andrew
  • What rights? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Srass ( 42349 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @08:57AM (#3908152)
    The text of the FCC ruling claims that this opt-out thing was done to balance the "first amendment rights" of the carriers. What about my rights not to be marketed at constantly?

    Oh, wait, sorry, my mistake. That right's not explicitly mentioned in the constitution, I must not deserve it.

    I'm not a person, I'm but a lowly consumer. I exist to fuel other people's economy. I should just shut up and consume.

    We must remember the First Amendment which protects any shrill jackass no matter how self-seeking.
    -- F. G. Withington
    • True, but what ever happened to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; the fundamentals upon which the constitution was written? Sure, the first amendment says anyone has the right to say whatever they want, but I don't see how that overriedes the basic priciples of the constitution's purpose, letting a big company legally twist and turn the law to fit their interests...

      Wait a minute, I just described our economy over the last 50+ years... oh well
  • by WCMI92 ( 592436 )
    Here's how I opt out... I don't HAVE a landline. I have a cell phone, and a broadband connections (cable). That's it.

    Until cell phones become 24/7 unlimited flat rate, I don't see the FCC being able to get away with allowing this there.
  • It is time to upgrade our technology again.

    I've heard good things about the "Two cans and a piece of String" company based in Florida. Perhaps the solution is right there?
  • by bluveinr ( 468313 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @09:02AM (#3908179)
    Here is the FCC Chairman's listed phone number from the FCC website [fcc.gov]. Keep this line busy for a few weeks and we'll see how his office reacts to "a reduced expectation of privacy".

    Powell Michael K CM-CH (202) 418-1000

  • Everyone is an affiliate!

    This sucks for one main reason. As soon as that info is sold, there is no getting it 'back'. It will be resold, repackaged, sorted, sold, crosslinked, sold, and sold again. This info does not belong in the hands of companies who "do buisiness" with a telecom company.

    With that, here are the other post headers.

    First Post
    FROst PisT In other news
    Imagine the privacy concerns
    No way in hell!
    BOYCOTT TELEPHONES NOW
    I don't Care, I use VOIP
    They can have my Pizza numbers if they want
    Workarounds?
    OT: your sig
    What we really need
    Solution is Simple: use the TeleGRAPH!
    Idiots should not be allowed computers
    What are they going to do with this? Eschelon and you
    Use a repeater node and bannana peel
    Wireless Networks?
    My uncle works for AT&T
    TIme to Move to Canada
    What do you Expect?
    Micro$oft and Telecoms
    I did this...

    and finally...

    In this day and age.
    Thanks, I'll be here all week.

  • Qwest (Score:4, Informative)

    by jhunsake ( 81920 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @09:05AM (#3908193) Journal
    For those who have Qwest, look here [qwest.com].
    • I wonder if Qwest will change their mind now that they're in such huge trouble with the SEC and will be the next WorldCom?
      • by swb ( 14022 )
        You can look at it two ways:

        1) Qwest doesn't want any more bad press or anymore state regulators breathing down their neck about their business practices and hence doesn't pursue further sales of marketing data. This is desired outcome, I think.

        2) Qwest is so desperate for cash they will sell anything, and they decide to start selling customer info to anyone. This is a likely outcome, money and corporations being what they are.
  • Hello.

    You have reached (555)555-1212.

    I use this machine to screen my calls and
    I may or may not be at home and
    there may or may not be a recording device attached
    so at the tone clearly say your name, your phone number and very, very brief message.

    Then, if I'm home, I'll have a decision to make.
  • Cell Phones? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ScannerBoy ( 174488 )
    Does anyone know if this includes cell phone providers?

    I mean seriously, I'm paying about the same price for a completly mobile phone, that includes long distance calls, works damn near anywhere in the US (Sprint PCS) and NO sales calls! Use your dollars to tell the phone companies to screw off!

  • by rbabb ( 134729 ) <rbabb AT rbabb DOT net> on Thursday July 18, 2002 @09:10AM (#3908223) Homepage
    I found out that a good way to defeat the computers that do automatic dialing is to place the tone for a wrong/disconnected number at the beginning of your answering machine message, followed by a second or 2 of silence, and then your real message. Then set the number of rings to like 1 or 2. This way the machine hears the tones for a wrong number and immediately hangs up, whereas everyone else is slow compared to a computer and will hear your message just as they are thinking they might have a wrong number. It might be a little confusing for some people at first, but after you explain it to a few people everyone should understand what you're trying to do.

    Just always remember that it's better to use their own system against them, then to just sit there and take it up the a$$.

    Rob
  • by sup4hleet ( 444456 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @09:13AM (#3908234) Homepage
    Chairman Michael K. Powell: mpowell@fcc.gov
    Commissioner Kathleen Q. Abernathy: kabernat@fcc.gov
    Commissioner Michael J. Copps: mcopps@fcc.gov
    Commissioner Kevin J. Martin: kjmweb@fcc.gov

    Customer Service Standards:
    Send your comments to:OMDCSSTF@fcc.gov

    General e-mail should be sent to: FCCINFO@FCC.GOV

    Remember: a complaint should be a well thoughtout, polite, disagreement NOT a psychotic rant.
  • bankruptcy? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by sckeener ( 137243 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @09:15AM (#3908251)
    I hate the ending of the article:

    As a related matter, the FCC is currently seeking industry comment on the use of information about customers whose telecommunications carriers have gone out of business or have filed for bankruptcy protection.

    If it follows rulings similar to dot.coms, then those records are assets and will be sold to the highest bidder to pay debts. Ouch!

  • Oh Goody!! (Score:3, Funny)

    by thales ( 32660 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @09:18AM (#3908268) Homepage Journal
    After years of using Telespammers as fodder for mind games I got crossed off the call lists and ran out of victims. I Was worried I'd have to quit paying some bills to get calls from collectors, but the telecos are saving the day by providing me with freash meat.

  • An independent black box entity that you could call in to and then out of again. Sort of like an anonymous remailer for telephone conversations.

    Even if the entity were under scrutiny if there were enough calls in and out, matching up a caller with a callee would be not 100% reliable. Add in a little randomness (don't connect calls immediately, have the entity randomly dial out every so often).

    So then we'de be at the point where in order to find out who you were talking to they'de have to tap each and every phone call. And after that bill passes we're really screwed...
  • In related news... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by martyb ( 196687 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @09:24AM (#3908319)

    In related news, after learning of the FCC's new policy on the sale of customer phone usage information, the United States Postal Service has announced a new initiative to close its budget shortfall. For a fee, it will provide details of every item mailed from a particular address. "We already use OCR to automatically deduce the ZIP+4 information; we envision additionally scanning the return address and generating a database of all items sent by an individual or company. Also tracked will be each item's dimensions (width x height; weight) and its delivery service (1st Class, Priority Express, etc.) The spokesperson would not comment on rumours that UPS and FedEx were also contemplating developing similar capabilities.

    But seriously, at least I could omit or obfuscate my return address for snail mail. It's a bit more complicated with UPS or FedEx, especially when they stop by a business to pick up the packages to be shipped.

    Imagine the value if my company could get a list of a competitor's vendors and customers.

    But, that also means: my competitors could get a list of my company's vendors and customers.

    I forsee a great increase in the use of e-mail, encryption, tunneling, and VOIP.

    Imagine, also, doing a reverse look-up of all calls to: alcohol treatment centers, rape crisis lines, police departments, "massage" parlors, etc. Victims would face further attacks... by marketers. "Hello. We noticed you called the Rape Crisis Line last night. I'm calling to offer you a discount on our pregnancy detection kit and our abortion services, too."

    There was mention in the articles of being able to opt out; but no mention of how to do so. Maybe the EFF could come up with a standard form that I could submit to my phone company that would explicitly and reliably force my info off the list.

  • My subject pretty much sums it up.

    It used to be that spam (in the internet sense) was about email-based advertising that got sent you numerous times by someone you'd never heard of. They got your address by dictionary attacking with phone book names, or spidering the web for people who left addresses lying around.

    Generally, it was porno, which upset people even more.

    Currently, if you were to believe the /. community, _any_ kind of advertisement is Spam. Banners over the jumbo-tron? Spam. Pop-up ads on websites you're viewing for free? Spam. Ads for travel insurance in your credit card bill? Spam.

    The fact that we are bombarded with ads in a supply-side economy DOES NOT mean that every advertisement is SPAM.

    In fact, with data-mining and the vast info-trail people leave behind them, i hope that in a world of advertising, newer campaigns will at least be directed at me when there's a good chance I'll be interested.
  • The other day I received new checks in the mail. Well I wrote a few checks, paid a few bills, and as I was flipping to the next check I was surprised to see an ad from a pen retail company! The company was not the same as the check printers (I checked) but apparently has struck an ad deal that places check sized slips with their pens and company info in my checkbook. Aren't there some places where ads just don't belong?
  • There are companies out that purchase every mailing list possible. No, they're not spammers, they're collating all of these mailing lists into a huge psych database, keyed against your name. In addition to every magazine subscription you've ever had, they can tie it against voter records, DMV records, credit reports, ad naseum. Some of them even key to usenet postings.

    This is mostly used by investigators/perverts to determine gobs of information about someone just by typing in their name and paying $5. The fact that phone companies will now start sharing detailed information about their customers means that these profiles are just going to become THAT much more detailed.

    Hooray for information!

  • The more spam I get, the more likely I am to cancel my land-line phone system entirely. It's another $20/month (and then some) that I really don't need to spend, since *I* don't use it much.

    The phone company is in the same boat as the post office... they're both antiquated services that are in the process of being replaced by both the internet and cell-phones. They should be doing things to ENTICE more users, not anger them and drive them away.

    Hey, wake up Ma Bell, you *DO* have to care nowadays!
  • From pc world "Uncapher calls the decision a positive step. He likens it to customers being willing for Amazon.com to know which books they have purchased, and recommending others." So does this mean I'll be getting calls like "Hello. Based on your previous phone calls, you might enjoy calling the following people..."?
  • ... so the FCC won't let me be, or let me be me, so let me see. They want to sell phone records monthly, and use it to get themselves wealthy. Hey, here's a concept that works, trash the little guys rights and profits emerge, but no matter how many rights are taken from me, it'd be so empty without being free.
  • The FCC is long overdue for some serious reform, and I doubt that it will get it. The FCC, in my opinion, is a microcosm of many of the things that are wrong about our present government: namely, that it can be bought and sold to the highest bidder.

    The FCC is supposed to administer the use of the electromagnetic spectrum (which is no more someone's property than gravity) for the common good of our nation. Instead, it sells wholesale the use of this precious resource to the people with the most money, leaving less and less available for the common person, much less the HAM radio operator or casual experimenter.

    It is therefore no surprise that they are taking money from anyone that has an agenda. In this latest case, phone companies and others that want to invade your privacy for the purpose of saturating your every nook and cranny with commercial advertizing.

    My proposed solution is that the FCC executive board be made up of at least 50% volunteer personnel (read $0 pay) and that they are not allowed to receive money from ANY source other than the national budget as approved by Congress and the White House. Will that solve the problem? No, but it might put a damper on it.

    Now, leave me alone. I have to go patent my coin-operated gravity dispenser.

    Vortran out
  • It's cheap enough to have a cell phone as your primary phone, and I believe there's laws prohibiting sales calls to cell phones, since the recipient is charged for the call in many cases.

    At any rate, I get very few calls on my cell phone, and once I tell them it's a cell phone they actually VOLUNTEER to put me on their do not call list.
  • And I know a good way to start--hang 'em, hang 'em high. When we make an example of a few by hanging them in the street, and throw rotten fruit at their dangling corpses, the rest of them will straighten up real soon.

    I am serious. But let's do it legally; we can start with a constitutional amendment allowing petition based public-initiated referendums in all states. That would allow us to generate and hopefully pass laws and vote on them at the polls. Then, we pass a law that allows us to take confidence votes on elected and appointed officials. There could several options for a poor vote of confidence: for example, if the official (e.g., the President) receives a confidence vote of less than 40%--fire him; if less than 30%, imprison him 1 year; These people are our servants; let's start acting like it. This sort of control by the people has a long and distinguished history. You ever hear of the phrase, "Let them eat cake"?

    We can also start by taking control of our airwaves, and setting aside a significant portion of time to free political speech, some of which may be randomly donated by lottery.

    That is all....

    ------------

    Cryonics: Gateway to the Future?

    http://www.cryonet.org

  • When signing up for spam-friendly service (Hotmail is the only one that comes to mind right away), submit your real name -- but enter the rest of the information (address, phone #, etc) of your local congressman. Let them pay for the crimes you'd otherwise be suffering -- no, it won't stop you from receiving e-spam, but it will send all snail mail spam and now phone spam to those guys instead. They're in the position to change things, so let them see the folly of their ways!
  • Don't blame the FCC (Score:5, Informative)

    by Nintendork ( 411169 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @09:49AM (#3908532) Homepage
    Blame the US Court of Appeals. They're the ones that instructed the FCC to use an opt-out method.

    Taken from Chairman Powell's public statement [fcc.gov]:
    "But we conclude, albeit somewhat reluctantly, that under the court's constitutional analysis, companies may satisfy the somewhat less stringent requirement of giving consumers the chance to "opt-out" of intracompany communications-related use of CPNI.(1)

    (1) The court instructed the Commission to consider an opt-out strategy, which the court concluded was "an obvious and substantially less restrictive alternative" to opt-in. U.S. West v. FCC, 182 F.3d 1224, 1238 (10th Cir. 1999), cert. denied 530 U.S. 1213 (2000)"

    Contact the Court of Appeals [uscourts.gov] and complain. Also, contact your local representative [house.gov].

    -Lucas

    • Thanks for pointing this out. All the posters who are blaming the FCC are missing the point. The 10th Circuit Court of Appeals is to blame for this.

      In 1999, This court vacated the FCC's previous opt-in only policy in this ruling [fcc.gov]. This means that the FCC used to have an opt-in only policy but the court forced the FCC to change it in favor of commercial interests.

      I confess that my first reaction was to get pissed at the FCC, but it ain't that simple.

      A couple of interesting facts about the 10th circuit appeals case:

      Lawrence Tribe, the Harvard Professor of Bush v. Gore 2000 election fame, was the lead attorney for the Telecoms against the FCC.

      The Supreme Court failed to grant this case cert., meaning that they refused to consider the appeal to this ruling. It'll be interesting to see what happens if this new FCC ruling gets challenged in court and then whether the Supreme Court will take on the CPNI privacy issue then. That's when the final interpretation will be determined.

      In the meantime, I too encourage everyone who wants the opt-in policy back to contact your Senators and Representatives.

  • Every call they make to me is money they waste. Every second I stay on the line and let them talk is money they waste. The more telemarketers that call me, the more money they are collectively wasting.

    Bring it on! I'm sitting at the computer desk playing quake, no reason I can't take calls and say "uh-huh" and "can you explain that again?" a few times.

    As for my privacy... well, I think I'll start wardialing telemarketers in the evenings. That should really screw up my calling profile, and entice more telemarketers to call and waste even more time and money on me. Ah, feel the power!

  • by JUSTONEMORELATTE ( 584508 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @11:46AM (#3909379) Homepage
    If your local telco is Qwest communications (the baby bell formerly known as U S WEST) then you are already opted-out, at least for now. Quoting from their site at: http://www.qwest.com/cpni/ [qwest.com]
    Qwest has withdrawn the plans it announced in the December, 2001 bill insert to share private customer account information among its different businesses. This information is referred to by federal statute as Customer Proprietary Network Information or CPNI. Qwest will not sell or disclose CPNI, except as required by law, to people authorized to offer or help customers get Qwest services, to prevent the unlawful use of services, or if the company sells that part of its business. No further action is required on your part. Thank you.
    For what it's worth, I don't work for Qwest, I don't particularly like nor trust Qwest, but that URL was where they used to accept opt-out requests. I just found that notice today when I started to compose this posting.
  • by Inoshiro ( 71693 ) on Thursday July 18, 2002 @03:08PM (#3911352) Homepage
    I'd like to see a story where the government serves people, rather than failing to serve as a proper mediator and regulator of business.

    However, like man bites dog, I doubt I'll see it often or at all.

The world will end in 5 minutes. Please log out.

Working...