FDA Approves Implantable Microchips 318
phrontist writes: "Wired is running a story about the Federal Drug Administration ruling that an 'implantable microchip used for ID purposes is not a regulated device, paving the way for the chip's immediate sale in the United States.' Spooky."
If this doesn't qualify as The Mark of the Beast.. (Score:1, Funny)
Let loose the 7 years!
Hitler (Score:2)
Re:If this doesn't qualify as The Mark of the Beas (Score:2)
Truth is, its going to happen for most people with or without having a chip inserted. Biometric identification (such as iris identification) will enable people to be tracked wherever they go, at least outside of their own homes. Your mobile phone lets you be tracked pretty much anywhere, as does your always connected PDA. Computer recognition of your car plates allows instant tracking of your travels, and its been around for years now. Some smart cards such as credit cards can be activated from a distance (so you don't have to swipe them at a checkout). The list goes on.
The most difficult issue here is the recognition that we need a bill of rights to protect our privacy. This information will be collected on all of us, whether or not we like it, and even if you don't get a chip implanted in you.
We need to accept that this information is being collected now. We need legislative protection, ideally at the constitutional level, so that even if a company has this information, they are limited in what they can do with it. This has been needed probably since the first day a telephone book was published, but it is certainly needed now.
My 2c worth,
Michael
A conspiracy of ignorance... (Score:2, Insightful)
>>>>>
Huh? Roman propaganda? Gentile (as opposed to Jewish), perhaps, but not Roman--early Christians were persecuted for a long time; it only stopped around the time of Constantine. Even then; you have to realize that most of the NT was written by Jews... Paul, [the writers of] Mark, Matthew, Hebrews, etc. are clearly Jewish. Granted, they no longer represented the Jewish orthodoxy; but if they did, they wouldn't be Christians any more...
>>>>>
If people believe in the apocalypse according to King James, that it is pre-destined, it will make it that much easier for those who intend to harvest us.
>>>>>
If you have any expectations whatsoever which are known to another party, they can be used to manipulate you. If you have no expectations whatsoever, you are out to lunch... I should hope that you expect the sun to rise tomorrow, or gravity to remain in effect (the mathematical descriptions thereof notwithstanding).
>>>>>
This is a free choice universe, a very powerful truth which some would like you to discard. While Jesus was very likely an enlightened teacher of great influence, his words have been massively corrupted.
>>>>>
Since theologians have been using the 'free will' defense for ages, I'm not sure who is asking whom to discard what. Are you talking about Calvinists here?
"Massively corrupted" is rather nebulous. If you mean that the quotes of Jesus are likely not word-for-word, okay; if you mean something else, please explain (and give examples from the text). The ancients weren't so willy-nilly in quoting people as some suppose, however. I refer you to the beggining of _The_History_of_the_Pelophonesian_War_ for how one ancient historian got his quotes. It should be available on classics.mit.edu, IIRC.
>>>>>
The Bible is a HUGE lie; it promotes a linear reality, a shutting down of the natural human thinking and questioning process, filling people with a fear of knowledge and individual thinking, and it indoctrinates people with programs like,
>>>>>
The Bible does no such thing; people do. What, pray tell, is "linear reality"? If you mean the notion that all issues are black & white; I disagree. Even the Apostles debated various things amongst themselves, according to Acts...
>>>>>
"Turn the Other Cheek," and "The Meek Will Inherit", etc. --Exactly the kind of thinking you want people to have if you plan to harvest.
>>>>>
*Who* is planning to "harvest" whom??? Non-violent resistance *does* work, however. I refer you to MLK & Ghandi... not to mention the eventual Christianization of the Roman Empire...
>>>>>
Don't take over until people are ready to accept their "Shepherds" with open arms. It's all about efficiency and paths of least resistance.
>>>>>
Who is taking over what??? Do you think that silly "Jewish conspiracy" plans to take over the financial sector? Explain!
>>>>>
So you are right, stuff is starting to go down as predicted in the bible, but it is only because the whole damned thing is a set-up.
>>>>>
By whom? Who is in a position to 'set it up'? Do you think that someone decided that the best way to reform Israel was to convince Hitler to make war with everyone, then impose the 'Final Solution' so that afterwards, those who ended his tyranny would have sympathy & give them back their ancestral homeland? If it wasn't known beforehand, it could not be prophecy; if it was, everyone just says "it was obviously self-fulfilling" without bothering to explain who it influenced in what way & how said events would not have occured without it...
> Shepherds tend their flocks, but they also fleece and butcher them.
Historical context: in the time & place where those sayings were composed, sheep were too valuable to butcher. Sorry. The 'fleecing' bit is just wordplay.
Re:Carefully now. . ! (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course it must be so. The New Testament was written by authors who were persecuted and imprisoned by the Roman Empire, of course, and is absolutely bursting with pointed criticisms of Rome- many uttered by the, er, 'enlightened teacher' Jesus (crucified by the Romans, as pointedly observed in all four Gospels you claim to be pro-Roman propaganda...). The last book of the Bible, 'Revelation', which predicts among other things the then unthinkable future cashless economic society and the Mark of the Beast (among other things also becoming manifest in our time) must also somehow be pro-Roman propaganda, too. Right? Even though the author was writing the book in exile on the Isle of Patmos by the Romans? Even though the Romans decimated Jerusalem in 70AD and persecuted the Christians for sport?
The Old Testament was written prior to the existence of any dominant Roman empire, but I'll set those facts aside like any
Calling the Bible "Roman propaganda", in the face of so many more facts than you would have the attention span to endure reading, is about as ludicrious as calling 'Uncle Tom's Cabin' a pro-slavery tract, or the Constitution of the United States a pro-Monarchy creed. It is flatly, even laughably ignorant. But if you say it with enough conviction, in a flurry of equally uninformed but impassioned errors, I'll simply but reason aside like any other child of postmodernism here and mod you up to +5 Insightful.
Let me guess, too, while we're at it. You're 'pro-chip implant', right? I should ignore those pro-Roman ravings from that apostle John dude who warned that taking the 'Mark of the Beast' (some tattoo or implant required in the last days in order to buy or sell goods) was consigning oneself to eternal damnation. If his prophecy comes to pass in our lifetimes, I should trust your insights about the non-linear universe? I mean, if I'm wrong to trust you over him, its no biggie. It's just eternal damnation, separation from God for all eternity in a place where the fire isn't quenched and the worm does not die, right? It's not like I'd have anything better to do, forever. And ever. And ever.
Re:Carefully now. . ! (Score:2)
Quoth Spock, "He is demonstrating two dimensional thinking."
The forces driving the ancient version of the CIA did not have Roman interests at heart. --Think about it: If you are trying to set up the human race over a multi-millenial period of time, then who cares how the Romans come off appearing in the history books?
Consider, forwards and backwards the ramifications of such a statement!!!!
-Fantastic Lad
You're Reacting, not Thinking. (Score:2)
Nope. You're just knee-jerking without thinking this through.
Does today's CIA have America's best interests at heart? --Think about things like their covert support of the hard drug trade. --And plans like this whole microchips in people thing have 'secret service' stamped all over it. The CIA is just a pawn of hidden forces which don't care about the U.S., and yet, the CIA remains an agency peopled by Americans. --Thus, their actions are 'American' in the most nuts and bolts sense. This is how I meant it when I said the bible was 80% Roman propaganda. Perhaps this was misleading, since it wasn't strictly a Roman born idea, but they enacted and enforced it; they mass-burned the clearer writings, put false prophets into place, and allowed easy distribution of the twisted materials. So who the hell else am I going to pin all this Roman funded activity on? Lizards? Sheesh.
Now think: Is it not reasonable to believe that the Romans had their own secret service? (A centuries old empire? They MUST have!) --And is it not reasonable to believe that it was corrupt? --Democracy certainly doesn't work to control such agencies today, and the same forces which would wish to corrput such an agency were just as real then as they are now. Quite simply, the same way the American secret agencies manipulate CNN and public thought patterns, the Roman counterparts were involved in similar activities aimed at shaping the public psyche. The various books of the bible would have been prime targets.
The place where people are getting derailed in this thinking is that they are allowing the 'impossible' to prevent the pieces to fall together in a meaningful way. This is the primary lie you are being distracted from noticing. All you need do is climb out of the neat little boxes. If you are going to think archeology, you must also think geology. . , and that's a very very simple example. You must be willing to go against the flow and put several VERY VERY obvious areas of current news, history and scientific disciplines together in order to form the whole picture. The fact that such a simple task is found practically impossible by nearly everybody is a tribute to just how effective the programming has been.
Are you up to it? Try it just for fun and see where it leads you.
-Fantastic Lad
Re:You're Reacting, not Thinking. (Score:2)
Doubt it. Writers must have the ability to think beyond popular pre-set parameters.
But your attempt to snicker at the different kid has paid off in gold! --You can now return to the highschool cafeteria and play at being 'cool' with your pose or whatever.
Now, be off with you! Go make a poorly designed juvenile attempt at a counter culture website or whatever it is you think you do. --Hint; griping about gender differences and actually considering it clever content says more about you than you should ever want people to know. (Can't believe I bothered to check your site! You got me at a low-energy point this evening. Feel blessed.)
-Fantastic Lad
Re:Carefully now. . ! (Score:2)
If God and all "his" true followers really are into threats and fear tactics like these, I think I'd PREFER going to Hell, thanks.
Re:Carefully now. . ! (Score:2)
I believe that is called the barter system. . .
Been around for some time. In fact it was capitolism (or some eary varient there of) that was being promoted in such a way as to insult those "evil pagans" (meaning a ton of other cultures which DID use the barter system until either romans or later x-stians forced money upon them. You do NOT have to assign non-realworld value to things. Hell even communist countries use money, for some reason that compleatly escapes me. WTF?)
Re:Carefully now. . ! (Score:2)
One of the things I really despise about fundamentalist religious zealots is their insistence that if you don't follow belief 942 of god 361 then you're going to get it good in the end - forever and ever and ever.
Bite me, already.
Max
Re:Carefully now. . ! (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually, I think the Bible is much more anti-jewish than anti-Roman.
Let's think about this for a moment. Who was Jesus? The son of Mary. Mary was a Jew. Jesus was a Jew. The New Testament is centered around Jesus, a Jew, and thus cannot be considered to be anti-Jewish. The Old Testament was written by and for Jews, so it can't by any means be called anti-Jewish. This statement has no validity.
Well, from my undersanding, the gospels were written _after_ 70AD, with Luke (the most neutral to the Romans) written closer to 100AD.
When the Gospels were written makes little difference; what the original poster is saying is that Roman propaganda is unlikely because the writer of Revelation was exiled because of them, and that the Romans destroyed the temple in Jerusalem as well as persecuting Christians for a few hundred years. For that reason, the idea that this is Roman propaganda simply does not make sense.
For these books to gain in popularity (and be supported by the domant power) it would have to be quite favorable to the Romans at the expense of the previous rulers...
This, again, is flat out wrong. Christianity was not favorable to the Romans -- it did not permit emperor worship (which was required by Roman law) and additionally cited a power above Rome. Christianity gained "popularity" in spite of the fact that Christians were getting tortured and killed daily.
If you're going to think carefully... (Score:2)
This is all based on second had sources, but I tend to believe it:
1) The Essenes had similar stories years before 1 AD. I seem to remember that the time from their records was 300 or 400 BC.
2) The records of the trial were not preserved by either the Jews or the Romans, both of which were carefull record keepers.
3) Much of the work, when read from a certain perspective, seems to be more a radical political party manufering in a theological society than anything that we'd currently call religion.
4) John the Baptist was a political revolutionary on the model of Elijah.
5) Jesus was called a rabbi, and I believe that the rules of the time required that a rabbi be married with children. (Prophet seems more accurate, but the prophets were at least as much political as religious
N.B.: I acknowledge that this point doesn't directly address the historical nature, except to indicate an inconsistentcy, but it certainly indicates that any historical figure who might have been there didn't closely match the current conception.
6) For a miracle to be believed in, any alternate explanation should be less probable. For me, at least, the belief that the story was the work of an underground political group attempting to stir up popular sentiment is at least as plausible as accepting that it is historically valid.
7) Large parts of the New Testament were purged at the Council of Nicea. Largely because they would make it too difficult for the Bible to be believed as truth. (There may well be other reasons, as we don't know all of what got purged, but only a few examples.)
8) The Bible was for centuries under the control of a central authority that proclaimed which versions were valid and which were not. Much of what is in the bible is known to be from a prior period, but much isn't, also. I expect that a great deal of "editing for consistency" was done during this period.
Re:If you're going to think carefully... (Score:2)
These copies have been dated to ~100-200 AD, and are in geographically disparate locations. Even though they are far apart, they are nearly identical. Most scholars who have looked at the evidence agree that for somethign to spread so far and change so little is a rather impressive accomplishment for the time. It stands to reason that very little "editorial slant" has been added to the New Testament books over time.
(Most of this post is what I remember from The Case for Christ by Lee Sobel. It's a darn good book for the non-history-major who wants to know more about the evidene behind Christianity.)
Re:If you're going to think carefully... (Score:2)
Of course, there is also the matter that even if you established that there was a singleton radical social-religious philosopher of the time who came to a bad end, and that he was called Joshusa, and that his mother was named Mary, and that his mother was married to a carpenter named Joseph
Re:If you're going to think carefully... (Score:2)
Look at how the media today is skewed on purpose, not through editorial slanting, not through errors in translation, but because there are people who want certain views to be broadcast. And yes, one could ask, "Why would the Romans want any information which is so anti-Roman as the bible to be distributed? It makes no sense!"
Well, think. .
Does today's CIA have America's best interests at heart? --Think about things like their covert support of the hard drug trade. --And plans like this whole microchips in people thing which has 'secret service' stamped all over it. In the most utterly simple terms, it pays in huge returns in both arms sales, and for reasons of political leverage for them to spread hatred of Americans in other nations. Gee! This crap with the middle east has vaulted Bush's popularity to all time highs? No shit? (And that's the MOST simple application of the idea.)
Now think: Is it not reasonable to believe that the Romans had their own secret service? (A centuries old empire? They MUST have!) --And is it not reasonable to believe that it was corrupt? --Democracy certainly doesn't work to control such agencies today, and the same forces which would wish to corrput such an agency were just as real then as they are now. Quite simply, the same way the American secret agencies manipulate CNN and public thought patterns, the Roman counterparts were involved in similar activities aimed at shaping the public psyche. The various books of the bible would without question have been prime targets.
The place where people are getting derailed in this thinking is that they are allowing the 'impossible' to prevent the pieces to fall together in a meaningful way. This is the primary lie you are being distracted from noticing. All you need do is climb out of the neat little boxes. If you are going to think archeology, you must also think geology. . , and that's a very very simple example. You must be willing to go against the flow and put several VERY VERY obvious areas of current news, history and scientific disciplines together in order to form the whole picture. The fact that such a simple task is found practically impossible by nearly everybody is a tribute to just how effective the programming has been.
Are you up to it? Try it just for fun and see where it leads you. You might want to start with a word like, 'Abductions'.
But then, you might not. Makes no difference to me.
-Fantastic Lad
Re:Carefully now. . ! (Score:2)
Whereas the Old Testament is primarily the Hebrews bragging "MY god can beat up YOUR god!"
:)
Re:If this doesn't qualify as The Mark of the Beas (Score:2)
and you thought the strips in $20 bills were bad (Score:2, Funny)
sounds like it's high time to start building some short range RF interference devices. oh wait, that would be a violation of the DMCA.
Re:and you thought the strips in $20 bills were ba (Score:1)
duh. (Score:1)
-tid242
"Spooky" (Score:3, Funny)
"...paving the way for the chip's immediate sale in the United States.' Spooky."
That would be Spooky as in 'Spooky Muldur'
Can't Decide (Score:5, Interesting)
OR. To implant it right deep in my guts as a deterent. Or maybe in the roof of my mouth!
Wouldn't fancy losing my little finger - its handy when a little drunk for proclaiming my evilness. But I enjoy my mouth aswell...
But hey - so long as I dont run for president or anything...
Sign Me Up! (Score:4, Funny)
Spooky? Not if you're a parent. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Spooky? Not if you're a parent. (Score:4, Insightful)
Excuse me if I'm being sarcastic, but the more you limit a child instead of teaching what is a good idea and not AND WHY, the bigger chance they'll rebel straight into dope-hell. The problem today is that most parents are not fit to have a child at all. They're just too immature.
Re:Spooky? Not if you're a parent. (Score:2)
Not all rebelious children are the result of bad parenting.
Re:Spooky? Not if you're a parent. (Score:1)
Not scary? Let me ask you this. (Score:4, Informative)
The problem with this chip concept is that anybody with the appropriate device can read the information without your consent because it broadcasts it. I quote:
yes yes.... it's for medical purposes only.. it'll never ever be used to id/track/monitor/control people.. our ethical policians are there to protect our rights. The system will prevent abuses. Are you hiding something?
Riiight... I strongly oppose any system that can broadcast sensitive personal data without my consent. Such a device is dangerous and undesirable in my mind.
Next thing you know, your employer will insist you carry these things so they can monitor your productivity.
Re:Not scary? Let me ask you this. (Score:2)
This chip does not contain or broadcast any personal data. You shine radio waves on it and it "glows" in a way that can be read as a number. This number can be used to look up your data in the hospital's database. Exactly the same way someone can look up your data using your name.
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Re:Not scary? Let me ask you this. (Score:2)
Again, my dispute is with this kind of a system that universally identifies me in some manner and then allows the identifier to be obtainable on demand by anybody who wishes it.
We've got enough problems with social security number management, credit card numbers, and other such innocuous numbers. Nobody would want to steal those right?
From Then On, Kidnappers... (Score:2)
...would make it a point to do a little amature surgery shortly after the abduction. I mean, many of them are just going to rape and kill the kid anyway, what difference does a little scanning and cutting make? If they hit an artery, no biggy, just find another kid.
Re:Spooky? Not if you're a parent. (Score:2)
Re:Spooky? Not if you're a parent. (Score:2)
Potentially useful, though the legality will be in (Score:1, Interesting)
It strikes me that certain bodies might like to have these implanted in the hospital when you're born, so that you may be IDed through your entire life.
Is it feasible that government could prevent people from taking certain types of high-security job without first having one of these implants?
On a more personal note, I think i woul be interesting to mandatorily implant these in every citizen, and use this as the first step towards ultimate accountability. I realise privacy advocates may find this a shocking and unpalatable notion (I too donate to EFF every year) but I think this could be a step in the right direction, provided that the first institutions to be fitted with reader devices are government departments. This would provide a unique method of ensuring accountability:Rather than the current governmental trend, where people who perform poorly or make grave an incompetent blunders are protected from public reaction by suppressing the detalis of the incident, we could have full, immediat public disclosure of all the particulars of any and every little indiscretion.
This might be useful in reversing the embarassing (to anyone who knows) trend towards promotion of idiots with no chance of succeeding in the real world to positions where they can do maximum damage.
Re:Potentially useful, though the legality will be (Score:2)
Privacy nothing, what about my rights over my own body? The privacy implications pale into insignificance compared to that.
Cheers,
Tim
Um headline error (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe a small update could clear things up.
Even more glaring headline error (Score:2)
Also, FDA stands for "Food and Drug Administration," not "Federal Drug Administration."
Come on, that's 8th Grade Civics material right there...
Just call me a Luddite (Score:2)
Re:Just call me a Luddite (Score:2)
Or anywhere else in the world actually. There IS something outside of the US of A you know ;-)
How would this be used? (Score:1)
With humans.. Well. The implanted ID chip that can be easily read without the carrier of chip knowing definately wouldn't be a solution to regocnition problems, fakes can be made as well as passports and ID cards can be faked.
"Big brother" style monitoring could be one application, altough it would be really expensive to put in use - imagine the amount of monitoring terminals needed.
It is far more convenient to get the monitored human to want to carry a unit with unique ID which is able to report its position and what the monitored human is saying. Motivation for carrying such unit could be, lets say, fashion or its benefits on making life easier.
Really useful use could be to put the implant in if the carrier has a disease which must be taken in account in medical treatment - tattoos and jewellery do this task better though, as they don't require any fancy electronics to work.
So who'll market one to hold your medical data? (Score:2, Interesting)
If you're unconscious, and the ER tech can just scan off you that you're diabetic and allergic to penicillin, that's a Good Thing.
Of course, conspiracy theorists say that every time you have surgery, the Government is implanting these in us without our knolwedge, and using it to track us. Oooooh!
Give me a break.
- Peter
Re:So who'll market one to hold your medical data? (Score:1, Interesting)
Mark of the Beast (a sigh of relief) (Score:5, Funny)
"Evil" Chip (Score:1, Informative)
Perhaps these people need to take a close look at all the good that can come of these devices, like the guy who wanted one so that if he had medical problems, the paramedics could quickly find out his details. Applications like that are fantastic, and can save peoples lives.
Here is another link [digitalangel.net] to another company that also makes a similar kind of chip.
Re:"Evil" Chip (Score:2)
Of course, I do have a card...
Re:"Evil" Chip (Score:2)
Don't need a chip (Score:4, Insightful)
The chip is a device to monitor movement. All other uses are an obfuscation of this fact.
Re:Don't need a chip (Score:2)
Re:Don't need a chip (Score:2)
Dick Size (Score:1, Funny)
Re: (Score:1)
just an id number (Score:5, Interesting)
It was stolen anyway.
As near as I can tell, this thing just contains a number which can be read by any scanner you pass. So it's useless as a secure ID because anyone can get your code by scanning you and then using a programmable chip that sends out that code.
They don't say how large the number is. Presumably it's a cryptographically strong random number chosen at manuf. time, but don't bet that the number isn't chosen via rand() % 10000000, either.
It might be useful as a toy to open doors and stuff for you, but a face recognition system will do that without invasive surgery.
Having a Lowjack or something like that might be cool if I thought I could be stolen, but I doubt you can fit a GPS + cell phone unit into a grain of rice. Though if I were going to implant something large it'd be a programmable telephone. Even so I think a StarTrek communicator would be better, and more fashionable. Really, who's gonna get "chipped" because they "think it's cool" to be treated like a herd animal? A tattoo is way cooler.
Re:just an id number (Score:2)
As to "invasive surgery" dunno about these ID chips, but ID microchips are implanted in animals with what amounts to a big syringe and large-gauge needle. No surgery required. The chips do tend to migrate with time, tho. Useful lifespan is current considered to be about 5 years.
I still think it's a piss-poor idea and a BIG step down the slippery slope to total gov't control over every move you make.
If they become mandatory, I forsee the emergence of a much more serious underground society (not just the trivial undergrounds of today, but one that means life or death, akin to what happened with the old Soviet system).
Re:just an id number (Score:2)
new types of problems? (Score:1)
Here's a tip... (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't EVER even THINK about implanting these in the forehead or right hand. You're just ASKING for trouble. Besides, there are many other places that you could implant such a chip that wouldn't raise the ire of the fanatics out there.
And as soon as there's even a hint that this is going to be mandatory.... I'm moving to the moon.
We have missed the first train (Score:1)
and now we are playing catching up.
The first train that we have missed was when the implantable chip was introduced for household pets - to
"aid the owners in indentifying their pets,
in case their pets got lost"
So said the media.
As a member of ACLU, I tried in vain to get the attention of ACLU about this development, telling the higher-ups that if the animals are allowed to be implanted with microchips, one day the same chips will be used on humans.
But the ACLU never care. All they care is to take away the guns from the people.
Now we have this
I wonder what ACLU will say now ?
First of all... (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyway, I don't think that implantable ID chips are a good idea by any stretch of the imagination, but to those of you who say "it just transmits a number, therefore it would be easy to clone somebody's chip," it would be possible to make a (much more) secure chip that accomplishes the same thing. Think public key crypto; if you want to check if this chip belongs to person X, you send the chip a bit of data, it signs it with a private key and only sends out the signed data, not the key itself. Then you check it against person X's public key. It would work on the same principle as digital signatures.
Of course, it would have to have a large enough key that it would be infeasible to brute force any time in the forseeable future (barring quantum computing), and it would have to be based on a proven and time-tested encryption algorithm.
That said, you won't catch anybody sticking one of these fucking things in me.
Re:First of all... (Score:2)
Yes, that would be a million times more secure. No, it can't be done with current tech. These "chips" can't do any processing at all. They are more like colored paint that glows under a black light, except that these glow under radio waves. The pattern of the glow can be interperted as a number.
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Re:First of all... (Score:2)
Ok. But I wouldn't go as far as to say that it can't be done with current technology, just that these chips don't do it. Why would it be so hard, anyway? You just need to do a little bit of crypto and a little data transmission and reception. Granted, I know nothing about it, but it seems to me that current technology wouldn't really have too much trouble with it.
Re:First of all... (Score:2)
I meant it couldn't be done in a comparable device. To handle encryption processing it would have to be much bigger, much more expensive, and would require much more energy.
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Re:First of all... (Score:2)
Yeah, yeah
including almost every single drug you've ever taken
Not really - my drug of choice is regulated by the DEA
Neat (Score:4, Funny)
The possibilities are endless!
Revelation has a lot to say on this. (Score:1, Informative)
Its all a bit to close to the Terminator/Matrix scenario for my liking.
Might this be a good thing? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Might this be a good thing? (Score:3, Interesting)
Hardly. Who exactly is going to object if (for example) judicial decides to start implanting these in offenders? It's on the FDA's "not our problem" list, so they won't block it.
The FDA ?? (Score:1)
All they said is that is not their ball park, that means, that its not a food, or drug, or medical procedure, or herb
So far all they said was if they want to sell it the FDA woldn't bother them. And its a voluntary thing, hell you even have to pay to have it installed, i can imagine a load of things i rather spend $200 on !!!
I guess that when these are mandatory in the us its going to be a sad day for all americans, anonimity down the drain, for good, for life.
I dont think that any good that these might do outweigh that simple fact.
I wonder if a stronng, but small, localized EMP would shut it down
blah
So not FDA... (Score:1)
Name on Rice (Score:1)
why the FDA? (Score:1)
UNIX combating crop disease (Score:3, Funny)
This diagnostic tool will provide valuable information for treating plants with UNIX® and its co-formulations which have excellent activity against both strains of the pathogen.
Source [syngenta.com]
So, how long before someone combines these technologies and implants UNIX® into people? ;-)
electronic high (Score:2)
IDChip.com (Score:2)
Mind you, the nonexistant IDChip was billed as an instrument of convenient, universal commerce--not a tracking device for patient data and missing children... still, it conjures a lot of the same imagery.
BRx.
Who watches the watchmen? (Score:2)
2) Get it out of your body (or never have it put in in the first place)
3) Figure out how it works
4) Figure out how to copy, erase sections, change data.
5) write
Knowledge is for everyone.If this kind of data is kept in the hands of governments and organisations, individuals will lose out tremendously. Like steve mann, we should be counteracting the panopticon [dnai.com] structured one-sidedness of modern surveillance and information networks.
Nowadays we should do these things as a means to raise awareness of the dangers and set legal precedents, and in future, we could have a combined coexistent society of watcher and watched all intertwined.
Makes life much easier.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Just think about it. Instead of having to find the passports of all the passengers of a airplane/bus/tourist group, and then find out all the Americans so they can be shot, you only have to wave a tag reader around the group.
Much easier. You can even just take it out on a walk in some tourist place and when you get that 'beep' for an american he can be shot right there on the spot.
This also solves problems of double nationalities when people have 2 passports and you only find the european one.
Ahh, life vill be sweet ..
Oh great, another endless upgrade loop ... (Score:3, Funny)
Whatever. Shit like this is far easier to deal with if you're stoned, so I guess its time for another cone
Finding the six-fingered man... (Score:2)
Precision Antipersonnel Strike (Score:5, Insightful)
Want a confirmed kill? Seems reasonable... assassination devices could be implanted in everyday items or places, merely waiting for the intended target to enter proximity. This could open a whole new world for precision, stand-off assassination!
Re:Precision Antipersonnel Strike (Score:2)
Aha! (Score:2, Funny)
Never (Score:4, Insightful)
Watch this story catch sub-1000 posts when it is more important and outragous than any five stories on the hof. I can deal with not being annonymous on the internet. I can choose not to use it if it comes to that. But if I cannot so much as walk down the street without every Corporation, Government and Asshole knowing more about me than I know myself, I am certainly no longer free, not by the greatest stretch of the imagination about "the good of mankind" or "medical miracles" or "protection from kidnapping"
Gimme a fucking break. Have you seen the first test case family? They are freaks! the son is some 180 iq juvie with dreams of becoming arnold in terminator because he is fat and his lips are too big. Daddy has been smoking weed for 30 years. Mommy a vacant follower who does everything fat assed sonny says because he's smarter than she is. Their fucking quote is "It's all Derik's idea, he is so bright that we are taking his advice on this". Jesus Christ, the kid is still wet behind the ears.
Derek's list of accomplishments at 14 (the wired article got it wrong):
He's an MCSE/MCP/A+
and is the owner of a fucking counsulting business [firstclass-inc.com]
You tell me, does everyone here want to follow this jackasses lead?
Want to build a reader??? (Score:3, Interesting)
Here's a link [microchip.com] to a great 2MB PDF on the subject. At 125kHz, it's really simple to recover the data. Note that antennas at that frequency are pretty large, and could, say, be wrapped around the trim of a doorway, or around the opening in the floor for a staircase, etc... you'd never know who was reading your key. Match a doorway reader with a digital camera, and poof! You've got an automatic ID database generator!
This is how it will go down (Score:5, Insightful)
The use for medical info is silly. Such a chip could be put into a watch, or a bracelet, or an earring, or a pendant.
The use for children will endear the tracker to parents, but think: if the chip responds to a radio signal, than a rather cheap device can be built to find the chip on the child's body. A person sick enough to kidnap a child would have no problem cutting the chip out of the body. They might even think it an extra dollop of fun.
So, I ask, why a chip...
Well, first of all, it's going to make its developers rich, as it becomes more widely used, and eventually, mandatory.
The first effect of the the chip's existence is the acclimatization of people to the idea that a device can be implanted into them which will enable others to track their movements. Our generation will balk, but the next will be okay with it, and the one after won't even question it. Think of urine tests for jobs, and endless civil rights violations commonly committed today in the name of fighting drugs, and now, terrorism.
Next, the chip will be implanted involunarily into former felons, and later into 'lawbreakers' at a judge's discretion. All these uses will be applauded in the name of public safety. Of course, the number of people now regarded as "felons" is swelling, now that the drug laws are being enforced in a draconian fashion. There are probably millions of people qualified today to wear a chip by legislative or judicial decree.
Of course, a real criminal will find a way to circumvent the device, or remove it entirely. Only moderately law-abiding people will continue to carry it.
next up, you guessed it, Businesses! In the name of preventing terrorism, monitoring employee theft of materiel or company time, and just plain convenience, lower level employees (NEVER executives, unless there is a security reason to do so) will find that having the chip implanted is a requirement for employment. At first, we'll see defense-related companies requiring trackers, but after that gains acceptance, then other companies will follow... eventually most of them, or at least the ones that pay well, will require some sort of tracker.
Of course, Schools!! Thinking Of The Children, we will of course require our threatened kinder to wear these devices as a condition of even having an education. It'll start out small, somewhere -- a schoolyeard killing with no way of finding the killer, or a child molestation, crimes that will make a privacy proponent think hard when it comes to protesting. but like metal detectors, drug testing, strip searches, and the like, it'll be accepted. As the majority of the current SCOTUS opines, if you are underage, you have no constitutional rights. And if you protest, you are a DRUGGIE parent who should send your kids to a DRUGGIE school. (I'm not making that last part up. It's staggering.)
Let's see: next up, consumer convenience. A chip, in addition to tracking, can give you e-cash abilities. Buy a coke, pay for it by swiping your hand into a detector. That may be a killer app.
The chip can be used for national ID, eliminating all the birth certificates, social security cards, drivers' licenses, company ID's, resumes, credit histories... endless stuff. People will find this liberating.
But it also means: anyone who wants to, will be able to track your movements for the totality of your life, at least the parts where you interact with society.
It means that, increasingly, to get an education, to get student loans, to enter the country, to get a job, to have a career, to get a passport, you will have to surrender your body to an implant gun. And now since the FDA has so conveniently taken medical people out of the loop, anyone can demand to shove one into you, literally.
And since the U.S. is now forcing other countries to change their constitutions (think Norway, I recall, and the Scientologists) to reflect our laws, there will be increasingly no place to go to get away from this. Hell, the U.S. may be one of the more relaxed implementations.
If any of you think that this is acceptable, then there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. And I will attempt to establish a new country on a Pacific island, I swear.
Re:This is how it will go down (Score:2)
And when you start your new country, it's gonna get REAL crowded REAL fast. Unless you prohibit immigration, of course. Maybe stop all the microchipped folk at the border.
Re:This is how it will go down (Score:2)
"For Our first act as Alpha Geek, We decree that there shall be a new hard drive in every pot!"
Re:This is how it will go down (Score:2)
Yep, Quebec is real free, all right. The French Revolution finally comes to North America. Can the guillotine be far behind??
Re:This is how it will go down (Score:2)
I'll help.
Good thinking, unfortunately you missed the point. (Score:2)
This whole implanted chip thing is WAY too obvious. As such, its true nature is almost certainly meant primarily to be psychological. It's designed to piss people off and increase their tension level. (Especially among southern law enforcement agencies and right wing anti-government types who love their guns.) Why do you think they would make something like this line up with the whole 'independantly related' number of the beast crap?
Try this on for size:
Practically EVERY fascist government in history has begun the same way: People were rioting or revolting or what have you. This gave whatever leadership available at the time the context and excuse underwhich to bring in the heavy forces and do away with all semblance of civility and personal rights.
Think about this, and don't thunder about and get angry with what I'm saying, because this is not a direct course of manipulation designed to be open to immediate interpretation. If it were obvious, it wouldn't work. When the camel's back breaks, it will not be because of this whole chip thing, but it wouldn't be able to happen without it and other such methods by which the temperature has quietly been raised to boiling for the poor frog!
Watch and listen. .
Hey! Did anybody else notice how for the first time they slipped the word, "FEMA" into Martin Sheen's mouth on "The West Wing" this Wednesday. . . (My current favorite source of mind control and propaganda!)
Look, watch and learn. . . You don't get to see the end of the world unfold every day. There is some really clever work going on right now.
-Fantastic Lad
Its not going in me- I'll desert first... (Score:2)
Second... All biblical stuff aside, this is disturbing. Installation is a simple procedure according to the artice, but what about removal? I assume its probably simple, but who knows?
Thankfully, its an opt in device.
I can see a handful of legitimate uses for such a device being mandatory. Well, one. Special operations forces could use a similar device with a GPS reciever for coordinating with other teams and higher headquarters. Those sorts of operators must travel light and can't lose equipment or they could give their position away, so there would be significant tactical benefit to it being mounted internally. For regular troops, external GPS will work just as well if not better with less privacy concerns. Remember, while joining the Armed Forces means giving up some of your constitutional rights, the general doctrine for such things is constitutional rights may only be sacrificed when ABSOLUTELY necesary for building an effective force and maintaining military discipline. An implanted ID card like this just goes too far for anyone but special operations.
Still, while I don't like it, as long as it remains optional, its ok. For most people though, SMART cards will probably be better, and if you need emergency notification of the hospital in the event of emergency, a heart rate monitor(they should be smaller than the one I used when I was a kid) attached externally to the waist with a transmitter shoudl work just as well...
FDA's stance? Inconsistent? (Score:2)
"The definition of a medical device appears in section 201(h) of the FD&C Act. A device is "...an instrument, apparatus, implement, machine, contrivance, implant, in vitro reagent, or other similar or related article, including a component, part, or accessory, which is recognized in the official National Formulary, or the United States (U.S.) Pharmacopeia, or any supplement to them, intended for use in the diagnosis of disease or other conditions, or in the cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease, in man or other animals, or intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of man or other animals, and which does not achieve any of its primary intended purposes through chemical action within or on the body of man or other animals and which is not dependent upon being metabolized for the achievement of any of its primary intended purposes."
So why is a silicone bag under the skin a medical device and a rice-grain-sized electronic gizmo is not? Contact lenses are FDA regulated devices. Tampons and pads are regulated. Band-aids are regulated. This thing is being marketed as something to facilitate access to medical information, and it certainly affects the function of whatever body part it's implanted in by making that part suddenly able to produce information through interaction with radio waves. How is that not, "intended for use in the diagnosis of disease or other conditions, or in the cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease, in man or other animals, or intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of man or other animals?" Someone? Anyone? This strikes me as FDA saying, "ooh, controverted issue. Run away! Run away!"
It;'s the Digital Angel people again (Score:2)
Digital Angel talks about vehicle location systems, while others have been shipping them for years. Big deal.
Implanted ID chips for pets have also been around for years. There are at least three vendors, (Digital Angel is one) and they're not compatible. So they're of limited use. They're just short-range RF tags, anyway.
If anybody had a good method for powering an implanted device, it would be used for pacemakers.
The next step (Score:2)
Re:404? (Score:1)
Re:404? (Score:1)
Re:Speaking of Implantable Microchips.. (Score:2)
If you really bite into this stuff, you've got WAY too much time on your hands.
Sure, there's corruption and conspiracy in the government, but this stuff is just outrageous. We have a word for it: schizophrenia.
Re:Umm excuse me... (Score:1)
When you stick it up a readily available orifice.
medical procedure (Score:2)
The FDA lack of regulation apparently stems from it being used for non-medical use; the article admits that inserting it is a medical procedure: "The chip, which is slightly larger than a grain of rice, is inserted under local anesthesia during a quick outpatient procedure."
Of course, that begs the question, how is the use non-medical, when the article talks about its medical uses (it can store information about needed medication, and they are talking about giving scanners to hospitals).
On a related note, how long before someone hacks this thing and walks into a hospital .... "It says here he needs a shot of morphine and two joints of medical marijuana. And a dozen doughnuts."
what about viruses? (Score:3, Funny)
I send you this false identity in order to have your advice.
See you later. Thanks
Re:Recognise the design of the chip? (Score:2)
Looks more like the thing "Rollergirl" used on Fat B*stard...