Elcomsoft Files Motion to Dismiss

copyfight writes: "Elcomsoft filed a Motion to Dismiss for Lack of Jurisdiction and a Motion to Dismiss the Conspiracy charge. Elcomsoft is Dmitry Sklyarov's Moscow employer who developed the software that defeated Adobe E-book copyright management protections. You can read the motions that were just posted at EFF. Essentially, they are arguing that the US has no jurisdiction because Elcomsoft loaded the software into "cyberspace," not the US. Also, they are arguing that Congress did not specifically intend to have the DMCA apply extraterritorially. The US can only have jurisdiction outside of its borders if Congress explicitly (and in some circumstances - implicitly) intends for the law to reach activity beyond its borders, as with terrorism and drugs. They also argued that there can not be a criminal conspiracy between an employer and employee and that Count 1 of the indictment should be thrown out."

Gee, Thanks

[AC-3]

Thanks Elcomsoft, you just printed up a blueprint for the MPAA/RIAA's next ver. of the DMCA, one that *will* extend past our borders. Nice.

Re:Gee, Thanks

[wpriii]

So let's see, its Elcomsoft's fault for defending itself because it got dragged into America court doing the honorable thing and defending its employee? Elcomsoft is not the bad guy here.

Re:Gee, Thanks

[russotto]

The MPAA/RIAA has ALREADY gotten the DMCA extended to the countries of the European Union, though it hasn't been implemented. Directive 2001/29/EC demands those countries implement something that's basically the DMCA minus the phony exceptions. The age of freedom is over.

If this request doesn't get granted

[CTalkobt]

( re: motion to dismiss b/c of jurisdiction )
then I'm going to become a billionaire ( eventually... ) - buy one of those little mini-island nations and invent a whole lot of rules on the internet and then start bringing people to trial.

I'll have the next internet be the best internet there could be - reidrect all your browsers to /dev/null - that's what would happen.

Extraterritorial laws

[Molina the Bofh]

I sincerely don't think almost any law should be applied extraterritorially, because each country has its own culture.

Suppose you are Spanish and have sex with a 14 year girl in Spain. Should you be arrested for pedophily next time you travel to US ? Considering the legal consent age in Spain is 13. [ageofconsent.com]

Should you be arrested for being a druggie addict if you smoked pot in the Netherlands, in a place where it was allowed? [druglibrary.org]

Should an American who is homosexual be sentenced for 6 years in jail and 2,600 lashes next time he travels to Saudi Arabia, as homosexual acts are illegal, and subject to a maximum penalty of death? [geocities.com]

This is crazy. The law that should prevail is the local law. I think that if a person does something another country doesn't like (like Dmitry vs US), then he should be considered persona non-grata in that country. Dmitry's entrance to US should have been refused in the airport immigration and he sent back to Russia. But not arrested.

Re:Extraterritorial laws

[wpriii]

With the age of consent laws, they get you through the Commerce Clause, which means that if you use any mode of transportation that is involeved in interstate or foriegn commerce, and you form the intent in the US to go to Spain and have sex with a minor, then they will apply the law to you. Unlike the DMCA, Congress explicitly provides US jurisdiction over those cases.

Re:Extraterritorial laws

[Molina the Bofh]

Yes, fine. But I was comparing this example to Dmitry's case. He is Russian, he did all the program in Russia and got arrested in US, when he went to DEF CON.

In my example, I said the person is Spanish, so presumably lives in Spain, and went to US. Not an American who went to another country to have sexual tourism. If he's American, you have an argument to use US laws. But if he's Spanish, in Spain, the US laws should not apply.

Re:Extraterritorial laws

[awa]

Other than culture (which is, of course, important), there's the issue of jurisdiction.

The U.S. is, as far as I know (do please correct me if I wrong), the only first world country which allows its laws and law enforcement officers extend beyond its territory without requesting permission / cooperation / assitance / consent from the country whose borders are being violated.

People talk about the U.S. becomming a police state, but I'm even more worried about its seeming taste for being the global police.

Re:Extraterritorial laws

[Savage-Rabbit]

Dosen't Israel have prior art on that? Both in the Eichmann case and when they sent their agents abroad in the 70's to kill Palestinians (including a poor Moroccan fellow snuffed by mistake) [msnbc.com] involved in the 1972 Munich Olympic affair?? I am no NeoNazi Jewhater nor am I trying to start a flamewar. It just struck me that enforcing your law on other peoples sovreign territory without their prior consent or knowledge is not a new idea nor was the practice invented by the US Govt. I am shure one can find older examples than these if one digs a bit.

Now... Lets go and watch some Karma evaproate.

Avoid DMCA jurisdiction overseas

[wpriii]

Here is an article that non-US /. readers might find interesting at http://www.denmarket.dk/cyberlaw/non-us.htm - it explains the Elcomsoft federal indictment, and poses some specific suggestions on how non-US software developers can avoid triggering US jurisdiction in "cyberspace."

Helpful article

[breillysf]

This article should help clear up some of the jurisdiction issues so companies don't target US consumers with software that might violate the DMCA.