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Who Wants To Be An Oregonian? 211

Posted by chrisd from the trust-us-we're-with-the-government dept.
Anonymous Coward writes "TheOregonian.com is reporting that an identity theft ring was caught with ownership of a set of CD's which contained records on every registered driver (~2.5 million people) in the State of Oregon. With all the calls for identity smart cards, federal databases, and better connections among existing state databases, this story should provide a real warning for the abuse such systems invite...by both criminals and the government itself...the records are actually for sale to 'approved' companies like news organizations and banks. The full story can be read here on yahoo as well."
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Who Wants To Be An Oregonian? More

Who Wants To Be An Oregonian?

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  • my point is that... (Score:5, Funny)

    by irony nazi ( 197301 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2001 @03:21AM (#2623561)
    please allow the irony nazi to point out that...

    The irony is thick here: Larry Ellison has a summer home in Oregon due to the leanient drivers laws, he has a Oregon driver's license.

    ...at least I can speculate.

  • Can't wait to get mine, maybe if i'm lucky it will even be tied to MS passport. :)
  • I wanna be Matt Groening!

  • And a righteously pissed off one, too, for that matter.


    I hate to be stereotypically geek, but does everyone remember the "simplified" ID card from "Mostly Harmless"?

  • I seem to recall... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Greyfox ( 87712 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2001 @03:31AM (#2623582) Homepage Journal
    A Roger Zelazny story (One of his more esoteric titles) about a guy who was one of the development team for the national identity database. He left a hole in the system so that he could assume any identity at will and made his living as a sort of glorified private eye. Maybe someone else can remember the title; it's eluding me at the moment.

    The problem with such a system of course is that the implicit assumption is that the computer is always right. Should someone figure out how to exploit such a system in this way, people will obey the computer without question. And we all know how good the various software companies are at keeping their software free of exploits.

    Even with our current social security number system, identity fraud is destroying some peoples' credit ratings, making their lives extremely difficult through no fault of their own. Even if they prove that someone has stolen their identity, sorting out all the dings in the credit record can take years.

    • I have a crappy retail job while I'm going to college and I have access to thousands of people's addresses, credit card numbers, phone numbers, full names, etc. Go to a mall dumpster and you'll find credit card receipts for hundreds of people. The girl ringing up your cargo shorts at Old Navy has access to your information just as easily as these "hackers" and "identity thieves."

      Just because there are centralized databases with this stuff now doesn't mean anything, besides people can get 2 million of them at a time. What is someone going to do with 2 million records instead of just 20?

      People steal no matter what. Computers don't make that easier or more effective.
      • People steal no matter what. Computers don't make that easier or more effective.

        Uh, I think they do. When I got my driver's license (Illinois) renewed, I noticed that the monitor brought up a digital image of the whole thing, photo and signature. When I asked about it I got a bullshit line about how it's for my convenience in case I need a replacement. (Yeah, save me 2 minutes of time after waiting in line for an hour) So now in addition to my name and address, my signature is now available to the fraudsters.

        Here's a banner I'd like to wave! [flag-girl.com]

      • If she's ringing up anything Old Navy in my name, my identity's already been stolen!

    • My name is legion (Score:3, Informative)

      by brumby ( 93242 )
      ...is probably the story you're thinking of.

      A Roger Zelazny story (One of his more esoteric titles) about a guy who was one of the development team for the national identity database. He left a hole in the system so that he could assume any identity at will and made his living as a sort of glorified private eye.

      Well that the story I think of, anyway.

    • A Roger Zelazny story (One of his more esoteric titles) about a guy who was one of the development team for the national identity database. He left a hole in the system so that he could assume any identity at will and made his living as a sort of glorified private eye. Maybe someone else can remember the title; it's eluding me at the moment.
      He wrote a series of novellas about that character. Combined into the book ``My Name Is Legion''.
    • What you're probably thinking of is "Home is the Hangman" although there were two other stories and they were published in the collection My Name is Legion

      You are right that "the implicit assumption that the computer is always right" can be a problem. However, it is precisely that assumption (or at least the assumption that the computer is almost always right that makes things so much easier for most people. I can enter a town I've never been in, present a little piece of plastic, sign my name, and receive goods and services. That's really useful. I'm willing to take the attendant risk that some can pretend to be me and do the same thing.

  • The US should take a peak out to other countries in the world. There are solutions out there that works. People are so hung up on the negative sides, that they don't see anything positive. I rather see better suggestions and improvements, than just "don't do it, you are taking my freedom!".

    The US isn't that terribly free either, the goverment is doing all sorts of things in the dark, which they have no good reason to do in the dark. The unions are weak and individual can easily be taken advantage of by the large corporations.

    All in all, see the opportinities to improve. Think of it is a huge mainframe with old bad software that needs to be improved to handle the load...
    • Achtung! HALT!
      Ve haf veys of you spellink ze vord "Peek" properly!
      Ve kan do it my vay or my vay! Ha Ha Ha (How do Germans laugh?)

      - Grammar Nazi['s secret friend]
      Glorious Protector of The Fourth Reich
      Holder of the Esteemed Order of Grammar

      Re: your comment, especially your analogy about an old mainframe - what happens in the industry - boss tells you to put windows 2000 on the NT 3.51 server without buying any new hardware... anyways.

    • The US should take a peak out to other countries in the world.

      You're right, and I suggest we start with Mt. Hood, since it's in the state in question.

      Where should we deliver it? Communist China? Or perhaps back in time to Nazi Germany?

      After that, we take the peaks of Mt. Jefferson, Mt. Scott, Mt. McLaughlin, Mt. Washington, the Three Sisters, Mt. Bachelor, and Broken Top to various countries. (If these names sound familiar to you non-Oregonian/non northwesters, remember "volcano" easter egg in the M$ OpenGL text screensaver.)

  • ID consolidation (Score:5, Insightful)

    by whiteben ( 210475 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2001 @03:33AM (#2623587)
    Especially since social security numbers are used as unique identifiers for virtually everything, ID theft has become much easier as of late. Steal a person's SSN and you can get a duplicate birth certificate, a duplicate license, etc. A true national ID registry would offer the same ease-of-theft: steal the ID number and you have the person's entire identity.


    But most of this is probably irrelevant. It's overwhelmingly likely that the records which were stolen were not obtained via sophisticating cracking techniques but were probably swiped by a semi-saavy employee who needs access to the records to do his job. The point is that these systems should be completely closed for maximum security. Even if a maliciously minded employee wanted to do so, he shouldn't be able to walk out with the data on a Zip disk.


    Talk all you want about the need for better computer security but to ignore the human side of the equation is to ignore the bulk of the problem.


    BEN

    • Yes. An analogy exists with this article [slashdot.org], related to better deployment of geographic data. Digital data usually represents a population, or a complete project, and therefore should be considered more carefully with public availability.

      Notably, from the other articles, it seems that this dataset has been available in the past without resorting to theft.

      I still admire the (acting) Portland police chief.

    • The data should also be marked by the id used to get the information from the database.

      In fact, there should be no way to get the data out without marking it somehow.

      That way, if Joe Smith decides to sell the database to someone else and that data is recovered, his name will be all over it.

      Logs at all the access points.

      No modems or internet access to critical data.

      Finger print or retina scan logins.

      I mean, really, if it's a physically isolated machine and there's good physical security, there shouldn't be any problems like this.

      It's all about the money. Joe Smith made himself some bucks.
    • The irony is that in order to create Social Security numbers in the first place, they had to make it illegal for use as an indentifing number for anything other than tax purposes. That's why at my school, we are identified by "student numbers" that are actually the SSN with a 1 in front of it.

      Shady to be sure, but legal as far as I know.
  • What's up with Oregon?

    First they make it illegal to pump gas into your own car [dumblaws.com]. Now, this.

    What's next? *sigh*

    One other thing... wasn't Oregon the state that at some point had all of their DOL/DMV info available on the Internet, free-for-all?

    • same thing in new jersey ;)

    • Re:Oregon (Score:3, Interesting)

      by randombit ( 87792 )
      One other thing... wasn't Oregon the state that at some point had all of their DOL/DMV info available on the Internet, free-for-all?

      Yes indeed. In fact we used it to find out who owned some vehicles that were abandoned on our property once. They took it down fairly quickly, it was only up for a few weeks, I think.

      Personally, I hope more things like this happen, it might keep the number of people moving in down a little bit, which would be nice. :)

      • Re:Oregon (Score:2, Insightful)

        by cornflux ( 168139 )
        Personally, I hope more things like this happen, it might keep the number of people moving in down a little bit, which would be nice. :)
        I'm from Washington... I hear ya. ;)
    • Offtopic, but Oregon & New Jersey (where I'm from) are the two states in the Union where there are attendants for gasoline pumping. People in NJ seem to love it, but many can't figure out how to pump it themselves when they go out of state.
      Its nice not to have to exit your car on cold/rainy days, but at the same time, the attendants tend to top off your tank so they don't have to deal with loose change. (Funny, as gas pumps in every other state say right on them "Do Not Top Off Tank".)
      FYI, if you are coming to NJ or OR!
      • i'm not from the US, could you explain what this means?
        >Funny, as gas pumps in every other state say right on them "Do Not Top Off Tank".

        i've never really got on with someone else filling the tank of your car, i usually pay by c/card, so i have to get out of the car and go to the counter to pay anyway... so i might as well stand next to my car and fill it myself rather than standing in the kiosk watching someone else fill it .

        cheers, spiny
        • If your a troll so be it, but in Oregon we just sit in our cars and had the petrolium dispensing technician our cash/card whatever. If we are paying with a card they normally take it up front since moderm petrol pumps have a card reader on them other wise we designate the dollar amount of gassoline we would like and see if our tank will hold our request. If so, or if not, we hand the attendent our money and they return our change. May all your dreams come true, -- Matt
      • I've only been to NJ once, and wondered this:

        Are you suppossed to tip the gas station attendant?

    • Re:Oregon (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      We're also the first (and still only, AFAIK) to have a plan providing health care for the poor (beyond Medicare shit).

      And the first (and still only, AFAIK) state to pass a "death with dignity" act, which Ashcroft just tried to block, which an (oregon) federal judge just un-blocked.

      We were also the first state to piss on Ashcroft's face by refusing to help him question his 200 local "suspicious immigrants".

      Oregon isn't a such bad place (assuming you're liberal) but sometimes we do dumb shit, too! Oh well.
      • Not picking nits, just pointing out that Tennessee also has a state program for people with no health insurance.

        TennCare [state.tn.us]

        Unfortunately, due to mismanagement and fraud, it is having some problems. But at least sick needy people get some help.

      • I used to work for a small HealthPlan that was serving these poor chams at the state's expense.

        This program was decimated a couple years ago when the rules were somewhat changed and their membership counts decreased 40-50%.

        I can't give away inside knowledge of how much the state was paying the HP per capita, but it was significantly less than the commercial HPs were charging, so the company was barely surviving (I don't know if they are still there).

        Also, Oregon's governer is a fuck: he has vetoed the highway speed increase two times! :-(
        My heart and 300zx Turbo are crying ;-)

  • The Original Article (Score:3, Informative)

    by cascino ( 454769 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2001 @03:35AM (#2623591) Homepage
    According to the original Oregonian article [oregonlive.com]:
    In addition to the discs from Oates' apartment, investigators recovered drivers' licenses, credit cards, identification photos, death certificates, Social Security cards and applications for medical residency at OHSU Hospital.
    It sounds like there was a lot more to this than just license data. My guess is that it's not the Oregon public that's at risk - it's some OHSU facility this guy was trying to get into.

  • I got a wake up call the other day.

    If you call the USPS and ask them to
    confirm someone's address (or even
    your own), or to find out if someone
    has done a change of address (filling
    out the yellow move form and sending it
    to the postmaster) - they won't give
    out any of that info, citing privacy, etc.
    Whew, what a relief that they are
    keeping your info under lock and key.

    Not!

    They will sell it by the bulk apparently
    for top dollars to anyone (who can pay
    that top dollar) who needs to keep track
    of people moving around.

    Big Brother, look out.
    • Got a number? How about a link? I would be interested to see if they have current information about some of the people that get mail at my house... They havent lived here for years! So who knows how accurate the database is...
  • Oates said he uses his computer for games, and that the computer discs police found were blanks used to record music.

    Why would he say so unless the disks really were blank? IANAL but saying a lie wont help him. Is there something else fishy here?

    • Re:Blank disks !? (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      This story is actually a few days old. here in Portland it has been on the news for at least three days.

      One of the bits i saw showed Oates telling the channel 6 news crew that all the CD's were either blanks or just music. They then showed a Hillsboro police rep stating that the beginning and end blocks on a lot of the CD's were indeed music, but that all of the middle blocks contained identity related data.

      Just and FYI.
    • Oates said he uses his computer for games, and that the computer discs police found were blanks used to record music.

      whoa! Recording music! Is he mad? I mmean identity theft is one thing, but screwing with the RIAA...now he's in for it.

    • Reminds me of that George Carlin line (one of his bogus headlines) about a man in Florida committing mass murder, then saying, 'He was merely cleaning his weapon, when it accidentally went off'.

      Either the fellow is telling any lie to save his skin,
      he's been royally framed by another civilian,
      or police ethics in Portland have gone by way of Clinton.

  • Trust us (Score:2, Funny)

    by ope557 ( 454207 )
    Computers are secure and not a threat to your privacy.

    Databases are protected and access is secure.

    Your private information will *not* be divulged or passed on in any manner.

    Trust your Big Brother to protect you, your privacy is safe with us.

  • Big news in Washington, new laws (hopefully) (Score:3, Interesting)

    by BrookHarty ( 9119 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2001 @03:45AM (#2623615) Journal
    Senator Maria Cantwell (Washington) is trying to amend some federal laws for Identity theft. Been on the news almost daily. Seattle Times [nwsource.com]

    Some of the reforms are needed.
    Require businesses to turn over to identity-theft victims copies of any records reflecting fraudulent transactions.
    Require consumer-credit-reporting agencies to block information that appears on a victim's credit report as a result of identity theft.
    Give businesses a new civil avenue to recover damages from identity-theft criminals in federal court.
    Change the statute of limitations for identity-theft victims to file a claim from the time when the fraud occurred to the time when the consumer discovers the fraud.
  • Anyone have a link to the ISOs? Or is it slashdotted already?

  • I have this CD. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pclminion ( 145572 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2001 @03:46AM (#2623619)
    The CD was put out by the Oregon DMV for several years, before it was issued for the last time in 1997. I still have a copy of it. I never used the information for any purpose, but I knew people who used it for substantial monetary gain (illegal of course).

    These days, whenever some asshole cuts me off on the road, I'm always tempted to write down the license number and look it up on my DMV CD. It has everything -- SSN, Address, DOB, vehicle information, etc...

    Why such a thing was ever published, and why it was decided that the general public should have access to it, I don't know. Don't get the impression that these people acquired this CD through some diabolical means -- in 1997, you could walk right in to the DMV and request a copy. For free, I believe...

    • At defcon you can always buy the Nevada state dmv records for $3 a peice. This is legit, the state sold them to those people.

    • Re:I have this CD. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Exocet ( 3998 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2001 @12:08PM (#2624798) Homepage Journal

      I've got it, too. It most certainly was NOT free, however. As I recall, I acquired my copy for about $25. That was from someone who had got it directly (for $100 or so) from someone who had paid about $750 or so for the CD. There was/is a local guy here who had been acquiring the CD, legally, from the DMV, since at least '94 and we always got the yearly update from hin.

      There's NOT that much information on the CD, though (regarding licenses), even on the last year. There's all the information that's on your normal license: Driver's license #, name, DOB, sex, height, weight, class, restrictions and some other crap which I don't know what it means.

      Here's an example from the License's database:

      "LAST, FIRST A","1234 NICEROAD DR NE","","SOMEWHERE","OR",24,97123,67,4,7,"M",603,20 0,"",0,"D","","N","","B",91,3,25,95,3,15,99,4,7,95 ,3,16,0,0,0,"1234567"

      Here's an example from the plates database:

      "QXT637","1","FORD","","4S","1FAPP36X3LK123456", "9 013464418",90,1,98,3,31,"LASTNAME, BOB",8,7,20,508616,"LASTNAME, JANE",9,8,31,6564,"123 SOSOLANE DR","","FLORENCE","OR",97789,20,"",1,96,2,26,0,0," ","","","","","","",0

      Everyone I knew who had this CD saw this coming. I have no idea why the DMV thought it was a good idea to publish this information, but they did and a bunch of people bought it. Suprise, suprise, some people used it for Bad Things. Live and learn, I guess.

    • I know Oregon information was way too easy to get by tele-spamers and and the traditional snail mail spammers. I registered a car and my title came with a typo. My middle initial was wrong. I was going to get it fixed as it was a legal document, but before I could, I got a bunch of junk mail with the same error. I decided not to fix it just to see how far it went. It was the source of about 1/2 my junk mail and 1/3 of the telephone calls. Before this happened, I had no idea this was available for commercial purposes. I am an advocate now for government to provide an opt out or opt in clause. You have no choice in providing the information to dirve. It should be kept private.
    • Yeah, I noticed people selling copies at DefCon. I wondered why *that* state out of all the ones to choose from.

      Didn't realize that the state helped out in this case.

      But aside from whatever original copies were distributed in 1997, people have been selling them ever since. I am half suprised I haven't gotten spam offering to sell me a copy. (Perhaps I have and just trashed it without looking.)

      But just goes to prove that you can't unring a bell. Once the information is out, it is out.

  • Yes, this happened. Yes, this information is probably a hell of a lot easier to get than it should be. But unless stories like this get major news coverage, this probably won't stop the push for national IDs.

    And even IF National Security IDs arent implemented, that won't stop the human factor in the equation. Somewhere along the line, humans can steal this data. And with the recent push of many places to have Social Security Numbers as UIDs, its becoming easier & easier. (For example, a bank I used to use made your SSN your logon ID to the online system, AND PASSED IT VIA QUERYSTRING to the pin page! That's just asking for disaster.)

    Either way, this information is already too easy to get to. A national security ID system would be cracked within a year, IMHO. ID Theft is a big enough problem already, we don't need to give criminals a nice centralized location for every bit of information they could ever want. (Moreso than we do now, that is)
  • The Oregonian is actually here [oregonian.com].
  • of my personal statistics/metrics stored on any data storage medium. However, we seem to have been powerless against the advance of such archival.

    Would a centralized database for such a database (i.e., the US Id. Card) provide security advantages? Isn't there a reason that Oregon was the first state?

    Here's what the ACLU thinks: "Why Does the ACLU Oppose a National I.D. Card System?" [aclu.org]

  • Just make civilians having such data a capital punishment.
  • Oates said he uses his computer for games, and that the computer discs police found were blanks used to record music.

    Hmm. So he was playing high stakes poker with some people he 'knew' online, and won the CDs from this 31337 h4x0r who couldn't gamble worth schitt. uh-uh.

  • Ironic (Score:2, Insightful)

    by metlin ( 258108 )
    Under the measure, retailers would have to provide identity theft victims with copies of all fraudulent records, and credit agencies would have to block bad credit information on their reports if they were the result of identity theft.

    It all sounds very fair, but how easy would _that_ be? Given bureacratic middlemen and a lot of other things, I'm sure this would not be as easy as it sounds.

    Plus what about the trouble with insurance. I'm certain that not many insurance companies would be ready to provide the victim with a proper profile, esp. after such an incident. In fact, I had a friend who had experienced something similar (not identity theft, but someone had interchanged her insurance profile) and even though it was _not_ her fault, most insurance companies are reluctant to give her anything that they feel would land them in trouble.

    Sad that things like this ought to happen, only shows that we may not be ready, after all, for full automation.
  • Hardware systems are rated by mean time between failures. Could this be applied to software systems? If so what would be an acceptable time between failures for a software security system to hold sensitive data of this nature?

  • This happenes all the time. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Savage-Rabbit ( 308260 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2001 @04:02AM (#2623659)
    A friend of mine bought a used PC for his mother. When he booted the thing up it turned out to have windows already installed. So he clicking around and found a nifty Icon. He clicked on it and wouldn't you know up pops this window which turns out to be a database interface to several thousand Patient profiles for the whole region where he lives. Turns out the Local Health center had sold off some mustered out PC's and forgot flatten the Hard Drives first. That is how easily this happenes.

    This sort of thing will allways happen and especially if you hand this sort of information over to private companies. Information will become more easy to access and governments and corporations will abuse it. They regard it as an incontestable right. Just wait till they start putting genetic profiles into these databases and selling them to insurance companies, banks and employers for "Risk Management and Customer/Employee evaluations" Won't it be fun to have your dirty genetic secrets floating around for the public to scrutinize.

  • Y'know, it shouldn't be possible to use publicly available information as accepted proof of identity in the first place. There's no need for it.

    Every computer should ship with a smart card reader. Driver's licenses and credit cards should be replaced with smart cards that can do challenge/response or public key encryption, and never let the private keys out of the card. The public key (or whatever it takes to recognize the card is authentic) can be in databases, but that isn't proof of identity. Since the private key isn't anywhere but the card, you can't get it without stealing (or at least physically examining) the card. If the card is reported stolen, you have to show up somewhere in person for fingerprints and an eye scan to get another. It would be very hard to steal one person's identity, and stealing the identity of all Oregonians just wouldn't happen.

    IIRC, the same scheme would take away a lot of the motivation for Microsoft's passport infrastructure.

  • Oates said he uses his computer for games, and that the computer discs police found were blanks used to record music.

    I suppose it's possible. I've never heard a database piped to /dev/audio, though I suppose it could be done. Weirder things [slashdot.org] have happened ;) Really, why do people try lame-ass excuses like that? It's like having your wife walk in on you cheating, and you saying "Oh, I was just giving her a massage." "Riiiight. With your tongue?"

    If anything, it shows how technically inept this guy was. If he was a /.-er, he would have stashed the data in GPG-encrypted form, on a two-session disc. The first session, a few audio tracks. "See? It's just an audio disc, this is my old garage band."
  • ...it had been one state further north, then Bill Gates would be on that list.

    I'm currently an Oregonian, though now it looks like I'm fortunate I'm an Alaskan resident. I recently signed up for Wells-Fargo Online so I could check my balance on the web, and, as I remember, all you need is a SS#, an account number, and an address. Now, you've already got the social security number if you have their driver's license. Their address may have been included in that data, too. If not, a simple search can get that. The account number might be a bit more tricky, but not impossible, I'd imagine. A simple transfer to a Paypal account and then, well, who knows? I'm just tossing this out. Could be just uneducated paranoid babble. Any thoughts on this?

  • The Oregonian has another axe to grind... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Black Art ( 3335 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2001 @04:16AM (#2623676)
    What they are not telling you is that as of a few years ago ANYONE could order a copy of the entire list of licensed drivers in the state of Oregon. All it cost was sending them a 9-track tape and a small fee. ($75, if I remember correctly.)

    It is not until copies of the records started to show up on CDs and on the net that things got changed. (Having someone stalked and killed did not stop them from banning the sale of the lists. Having people be able to look up politician's home addresses did. Kinda sorta.)

    Now only people who have a "valid need" for the data can buy it.

    The reason they did not ban the outright selling of the license lists was that the direct mail people "heavlly objected".

    It became very obvious to those people in Oregon that actually paid attention that the state government cared more about financial concerns than they did about actually protecting public safety and/or privacy.

    As for the oregonian... They are known to have a very skewed sense of reporting ethics. I would first determine exactly which axe they have to grind before coming to any conclusions about the "facts" of the matter.

  • here's a pricelist (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Kraft ( 253059 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2001 @04:20AM (#2623684) Homepage
    Her measure to Congress is based on a Washington state law that went into effect in July. Under the measure, retailers would have to provide identity theft victims with copies of all fraudulent records, and credit agencies would have to block bad credit information on their reports if they were the result of identity theft.

    Why buy someone elses identity? There are plenty of spooky sites around the net which deal with offshore banking, which offer second citizenship or identity cards. Usually in your own name, but also in a name of your choice [ptclub.com].

    The pricelist includes items like:
    - international driving permit: $200
    - international student card: $65
    - novelty cards (body guard, pilot (!!), delta force, PI etc.): any four, $100
    - press card: $2-500

    I'm sure there are many more sites like these, (in fact there are [google.com]). I remember seeing a site once (imsil.com - anyone knows what happened to them?) which offered a new identity for around $6000. It was a passport to some x-UK colony, which didn't (officially) issue passports any more, but the old one were still in use.

  • WTF (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by _ph1ux_ ( 216706 )
    Sorry to burst your bubble AC (BTW Why are we posting stories by ACs anyway - AC==CIA :P) but this is total .gov FUD.

    The point is that we shouldnt be Scared into accepting the national ID - especially from one of the most liberal states in the union - and that the national ID is Not Such A Great Idea(TM).

    I am sorry for all you smooth-brains out there but listening to crap like this is likely to get a bar-code on your fore-head. This is just lame. Period.

    We need to address the real problems - not just the "children" arguments that Hillary has been touting all this time - stand-the-fuck-up(R). Why dont we look at the fore-fathers and realize that it is time to dump the damn tea...

    This is BS - and all of us know it in our hearts. The problem is not solved by little fscking laws - but by a true transformation in our thinking. Politicians are not Geeks - and Geeks are not politicians - there IS A REASON FOR THAT!!

    And the reason is - Politicians do NOT HAVE OUR BEST INTEREST IN MIND. So FUCK CNN, MSNBC, NBC, BBC, ABC, ETC... read between the lines - and stand up for what is true and right.

    And dammit /. Show the DAMN STORY ABOVE THE REPLY SO WE DONT HAVE TO USE MULTIPLE WINDOWS AND THE BACK BUTTON TO QUOTE!.

    THINK!!!!!!!!!

    (*sorry but I am so tired of just sitting here and watching all the /. *elite* sit back and talk just the same FUD as DC people.)

    actually I am not sorry - this is getting fucking old fast. and I dont care if I get modded as a troll/whatever - define the state of things.

    let me know where I am wrong - as I dont see anything wrong accept for the state of the system. 1984.
  • Basically the thing that leaves me stumped on all this is how this theif managed to get his or her hands on all this information without the Department of Motor Vehicle Information knowing anything about it.

    It sounds very MI'ish, but rather than a narq list it's a list of every registered driver in the state of Oregon. I somehow doubt this individual went to the lengths of Tom Cruise, yet the information is potentially more valuble. This failure on the DMVI could have cost billions in fraudulent credit card registrations and transactions in a poor economy, and potentially could have sent consumer confidence to the toilet, plummeting the Americain economy (in an absolute worst case scenario).

    What security has been used (if any) by the DMVI in the past, and how do they intend on improving their current situation? Allowing the identies of 2.8M individuals to be stolen is not acceptible by any means.

    I find it interesting that Yahoo! mentions nothing of the DMVI's response.
    • What security has been used (if any) by the DMVI in the past, and how do they intend on improving their current situation? Allowing the identies of 2.8M individuals to be stolen is not acceptible by any means.
      FYI (in case you didn't read the rest of the posts), the Oregon DMV sold this information until recently to anyone with $75.

  • Oregon Openness? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by imrdkl ( 302224 )
    It's too bad that this has happened, of course. It was a rush to digital and possibly the longing to displace the power of the bureaucrats and civil servants in the DOT/DMV, perhaps.

    Otoh, Oregon is the only state which has had the gonads to challenge the DoJ about their interrogations. Seems they do watch out for privacy at some level, in Oregon.

  • In Oregon, things are different here...

    But, I bet Tom McCall is stirring in his grave right now... with the potential of all those Californians becoming Oregonians via identity theft... who woulda thought they didn't even need to move here.

    All this in the state that has Intel... hmmm.

    Anyway, anyone remember [cnet.com] the guy who tried to put the Oregon DMV driver record database online?

  • This info on web (Score:2, Insightful)

    by i1984 ( 530580 )
    A few years ago someone was planning on putting this information in a web accessible database. I don't remember if he ever did (and I'm too lazy to check), but there was a lot of fuss about it at the time and the person who was going to do it eventually backed down.

    Of course, once information gets out in to the open, there's no putting it back in the bottle. Sometimes that's a good thing when it makes MS patch their bugware, but clearly there can be problems too -- as this case shows. I think open government is vital to effective democracy, and anything that potentially limits the openness of government should be carefully scrutinized, but I also believe a line must be drawn somewhere when personal information is involved.

    In government institutions, this becomes a question of how open "open government" can really be. It's not a theoretical concern; some local governments have been considering placing all their records online. So how much should they scrub out of these? What constitutes personal information that should be protected?

    Credible participation in our democracy is rarely done behind a veil of anonymity. That's why we declare campaign contributions in the public record, why letters to the editor in newspapers aren't typically published unless signed, and even why Anonymous Coward postings on Slashdot don't receive an automatic +1 moderation. The underlying assumption is that if you aren't willing to identify yourself, then whatever you have to say must not be that important.

    (Of course, in extreme cases, anonymity is important and protected; if you fear for your safety, or fear you would be unduly harassed by identifying yourself, anonymous participation in government is vital. But that's not usually the case with generic public records.)

    How, then, do you balance open government with the potential for abuse of government records? How should the method of distributing information affect the content of the information being distributed? That is, should you be able to get copies of data with more personal information when you have to request it in person (and in the process having your own name added to the public record), one record at a time, versus download it off the web or from a CD?

    The real perversity, however, is that companies can frequently buy this personal information for their own use. If you get junk mail, there's a good chance the company sending it to you got your address from a database compiled by your state's department of motor vehicles; in Oregon you have to opt out of having your personal information sold.

    In a sense, I'm more concerned about corporations having free run of my personal information than governments. Corporations are not democratic bodies, their records are not open to public review, and I simply have to trust that they will do the right thing -- a trust that may be undermined by their profit motive. Open government, on the other hand, lets me participate in the fate of my information -- even if I have to identify myself to do so.

  • I used to have ( I Just pitched them) a set of cd's with every persons name Phone Number and address in the continental US.
    They were old, like from the 80's, so they didn't really have much info I could use, but they had like 200million names, or something equally insane, incase I ever wanted to become a telemarketer or send out Junkmail
  • In Germany we have ID cards.
    And in Germany you can legally go to the local authorities and ask for the adress of any person you want. And they will tell you (perhaps not the adress of "endangered" person like Rushdie).
    And there is no large scale abuse of this.
    Guess why ?
    Because be smelly Europeans have made a nice invention. It's called photograph. It allows you to make picures of things. And a (hopefully) nice picture of yourself is on every ID card. And without huge resources (security agency style) these ID cards can't be faked (theoretically they are claimed unfakeable but I doubt this). And this system protects from ID theft.
    Because when someone wants to verify your ID, he let's you show him your ID card.
    The problem of ID theft is an very USian one.
    Ans the main reason is an absence of thing like ID cards etc. we have in Europe.
    The burocracy is sometimes much pain in the butt, but it's worth.
  • Hey...didn't anyone watch that movie? What was it, The Net?

    Yeah for "secure" ID's!!!
  • Inverting digits
    typos in name, addy
    especially for my SS#

    you might say...they the IRS will get mad, but they are so understaffed, they audit less that 1% of returns..besides, the error will always look like a typo / fat finger....hehe, I'm a sneaky ****
    • Something else you can do is hang onto old credit cards (expired, or if you've canceled them). Then when Joe Minimumwage at the video store demands a CC number he can write down on your application form and leave in plain sight, you can give him a number that isn't going to cause you any major headaches down the road.

      -Legion

  • Is it really that difficult to read a couple very short articles? It wasn't the fact that he just had 2.5 million DMV records. He also had copies of drivers licenses and plates from all 50 states. Having 85 CDs chock full of identities and other information is one thing - whether or not THAT is illegal will be up to the courts. What IS illegal, however, is lying to the police about it, stating that these 85 CDs were blank CDs used to record music. Obstruction of justice at its finest. And when it turned out these CDs were not in fact blank, well, his ass is in even more trouble now.
    Having all of Oregon's DMV records stored, in addition to drivers license and plate data for all 50 states? If you ask me, it wasn't exactly for "information purposes only" - let the idiot fry. I can guarantee you it wasn't for lawful purposes. Thank goodness I don't live in Oregon.
  • In Oregon the citizens can pass laws and change current laws using ballot initiatives. I propose a new law along the following lines. First we issue everyone a smart card as mentioned in post #2623667 [slashdot.org] Then we restrict access to the new database to police only. The database cannot be used for any economic purposes such as check verification or mass mailings etc. Each time the police access the database, we record that access and make it available to the person whose record it is. Further we restrict access to all personal information such as name and address to those who have a search warrant and a key issued by a judge to access that single record. Without a warrant, the only thing the database will be able to do is verify that you have a valid drivers licence and it will show your photograph so that police can verify your identity.

  • The problem is not that this information is available. The problem is that you don't have to properly authenticate yourself to claim the information as yours.

    What is needed is something like the use of a biometric to connect you with your data whenever it is used. Then your identity could not be stolen.

  • The mafia was paying a few government employees to get them records on every registered drivers. They sure got caught, too late however.
  • The article fails to state how old the DMV records were, but it's very possible they could've been obtained at this time [bcentral.com]when the records were a little easier to access. Of course, even records 5 years old contain enough data that there's still plenty of accurate info there.
  • If we had some sort of centralized "person information system" that could be used by governments, corporations, and private citizens--all on equal footing, then we would actually reduce the risk of this sort of thing happening. Granted, that would be putting all of our eggs in one basket. However, we could make one extremely well designed, extensively peer-reviewed basket. The current system is for everybody to build their own baskets. Nobody has many eggs, but lots of eggs get cracked, dropped, and stolen because the average basket is so incredibly shitty.

    If we do nothing, M$ will force a poorly designed basket with lots of eggs, that they own alone. Don't worry. It will be free--for a while.

  • Life in Oregon (Score:2, Informative)

    by AllieA ( 170303 )
    I've lived in Oregon for 4 1/2 years now, and I can tell you this is a very weird place to live.

    1. The fact that I can't pump my own gas still amazes me. There's nothing like waiting 10 minutes to do something that should only take 5.

    2. Oregon has something called a "kicker check" which means that if the government doesn't spend all of the money it collected in taxes, it refunds the difference to the taxpayers. Great concept, but it's actually a farce because the money is such a political hot potato that you don't dare spend that money or the people complain. So the government deliberately underspends so they can send out a kicker. This year the state is hundreds of millions short of what it needs, but guess what? The kicker still went out.

    3. Oregon has a referendum system that has run amok, mostly because of one person named Bill Sizemore. He's always complaining about Oregon having high taxes (which is untrue, Oregon's total tax burden is about 38th highest, mostly because there is NO sales tax). But he's managed to get some taxes cut, further hurting the state. I'm sure he has plans to put a referendum out there to eliminate taxes completely.

    4. Oregon's roads are torn to shreds every year because they allow studded tires starting October 1. A section of interstate between my home and work was paved only a few years ago, and already the studs have cut deep ruts into the road.

    5. Portland has an "urban growth boundary" that is roughly a circle 20 miles in radius around Portland that sets a limit as to how far you can "sprawl" the city. Since the boundary is mostly full already, the local governments want to increase the population density (with all of the wonderful side-effects), but won't authorize any new freeways to alleviate what is already the 6th worst traffic in the country. There is some light rail (which is a great idea), but it still isn't nearly as extensive as it needs to be to make any difference. So Portlanders are packed in even tighter, and traffic gets worse every year.

    Add to that the fact that the state only has one major newspaper (which is lousy), terrible local TV news (a recent study confirmed this), and housing costs that are way too high (partly because of the already mentioned urban growth boundary), and it makes me wonder why I stay here. For now, I'm happy to stay put, but it seems like Oregon is always doing something to urge people to leave. Of course, since I moved here from out of state, I've always known that I wasn't welcome here anyway. That's just the way Oregon is.

    • Re:Life in Oregon (Score:4, Interesting)

      by StevenMaurer ( 115071 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2001 @02:28PM (#2625619) Homepage

      I've lived in Oregon for longer than you have by about 2 years. It is a funny place, but I love it.

      Yes, you can't pump your own gas. This is blatantly done to increasing employment opportunities for the uneducated. It seems to work better than just handing people a check. Obviously you haven't quite had the blessing living through a really hard winter yet, or you might be a little less upset about being forced to stay in your warm car.

      The "kicker check" is just a hallmark of the right wing tidal wave crashing over the entire U.S. It isn't much different than any other state, and is in some ways better.

      Referendums are abused by demogogues, typically "something for nothing" right wing demogogues who pretend that you can just legislate roads, schools, and essential services to cost less than they actually do. It's bizarre how the extreme right in the U.S. in many ways resembles the old time communists; I'm almost expecting to one day hear some radio blowhard to start saying "Get rid of IRS and all taxes, and all services stay same because we then live in socali- I mean, libertarian utopia! Da Da!"

      Climatalogically speaking, Oregon is two states. The west west side, and the frozen east side. Studs are essential in the east, and absurd in the west. You legislate a way out of that one.

      Portland's urban growth boundary hasn't substantially raised housing prices, despite the propaganda from the builder's associations. It has, however, preserved over 30,000 acres of viable farmland, which employs 50,000 people in the area. It's one thing to sprawl in the desert, quite another to do it over some of the most productive agricultural land in the U.S.

      And finally about the Oregonian. Yes, they are a moderate Republican newspaper, but they do report the news - including the topic of this slashdot headline. Identity Theft rings operate all across the U.S. and in other nations, but it was the Oregonian that broke the story about the one our police caught.

      I don't call that lousy reporting.

      • Apart from your defense of the Oregonian (I don't think it's much of a paper either), you have hit it on the head. It's a strange place, but good. Those who don't like it are free to leave.


        My biggest pet peeve about Oregon: I miss the old license plates.

    • Re:Life in Oregon (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Zwack ( 27039 )
      Greetings,
      A few comments about your posting...

      1) What is wrong with not being allowed to pump your own gas. If you want them to speed up, get out of your car and make like you are about to pump it yourself.

      2) The kicker check is not a refund of government underspend, but a refund of excess taxes. If the actual tax income is greater than the projected tax income by about 2% (or more) then the excess is refunded. It has nothing to do with how much or how little the government spends.

      3) Yup... Down with Bill Sizemore... :-)

      4) November 1 not October 1, and in Eastern Oregon they are absolutely essential. Try driving from Troutdale to La Grande without studded tires today (we're in the middle of a severe storm). School Teachers in La Grande have been to known to use snowmobiles and cross country skis to get to school in the winter. Of course in the Portland Area if there is even a quarter inch of snow, schools have a snow day, cause people in Western Oregon seem to be immigrants from warmer states who don't know how to drive in snow.

      5) What a great idea, stop people developing on prime farmland. It works for me, and frankly having comparing population densities between Portland and Western Europe, you have nothing to complain about as far as crowding goes. Try building houses that are larger than one floor, and don't have a yard larger than the house. Build up, not out!

      Finally, my third generation Oregonian wife respectfully says that if you don't like Oregon that much, why don't you just go home, she'd rather see the fields than the people and traffic. And she used to live in the Beaverton area when there WERE fields there (a 25 acre farm which is now an evil sub division.)

      Zwack

      • Re:Life in Oregon (Score:2, Informative)

        by _avs_007 ( 459738 )
        4) November 1 not October 1, and in Eastern Oregon they are absolutely essential. Try driving from Troutdale to La Grande without studded tires today (we're in the middle of a severe storm). School Teachers in La Grande have been to known to use snowmobiles and cross country skis to get to school in the winter. Of course in the Portland Area if there is even a quarter inch of snow, schools have a snow day, cause people in Western Oregon seem to be immigrants from warmer states who don't know how to drive in snow.

        I tend to think the same when it rains for the first time in a while. People seem to forget how to drive, and you end up stuck in traffic for hours.

        Finally, my third generation Oregonian wife respectfully says that if you don't like Oregon that much, why don't you just go home, she'd rather see the fields than the people and traffic. And she used to live in the Beaverton area when there WERE fields there (a 25 acre farm which is now an evil sub division.)

        I have the same attitude of people in the USA in general. Nothing more I can't stand than people bitching about how our country sucks. So I tell em' if they don't like it, get the f*ck out than. My parents immigrated to this country, and we're all damn proud to be here.

    • Re:Life in Oregon (Score:2, Interesting)

      by _avs_007 ( 459738 )
      I've lived in Oregon for about 22 years. Then I hopped across the river into washington. Let me tell you:

      1. The fact that I can't pump my own gas still amazes me. There's nothing like waiting 10 minutes to do something that should only take 5.

      Thats not the end of it. Oregon has no quality control laws either. Look at the pump. There is no inspection sticker on the pump, like here in WA. Dateline even did a special on this several years back. They showed some gas stations in Oregon had the regular unleaded pump and the super unleaded pump attached to the same holding tank. They also showed lots of contaminates in the gasoline, including used motor oil in the diesel fuel. And a majority of the pumps always showed more gas being pumped than actually pumped. And thats the pump, were not talking about snotty pumpers. In high school many many times I asked for 10 dollars of gas, and if I got out of the car and look at the pump, it read like 7 dollars, despite the attendent saying he pumped ten, etc etc. And then theres the many arguments with the cashier about how I asked for X amount of gas, but the attendent claims I said fill, or something. (like I could afford a fill in highschool with a 68 chevy with a V8. I was using lunch money for gas a lot of times ;)

      One time last year when the wife and I carpooled, and we got gas in Oregon, (she hates pumping gas), I pulled into a unical. And I saw the attendent smoking while he was pumping gas... Needless to say, I got the hell out of there as fast as I could... Sometimes you just have to wonder. Some gas stations you have to get out of your car to go to the cashier to prepay, then you wait for the guy to pump, then you gotta go back and get change. Other gas stations you hand the guy your Visa, and just sticks it in the pump and gives it back to you. And I especially hate how they try to pump more gas in the car to make it an even number, and then they either overfill, charge you for air, or they just spill gas all over your car. And they don't bother using the gas cap holder on the lid, they just toss it somewhere. Sometimes they forget to put it back on. Sometimes the drivers are idiots. One time I saw a lady drive off with the nozzle still sticking out of her tank.

      As for oregon taxes. What sucks more is if you live in washington and work in Oregon. I still pay oregon taxes, but don't get a single benafit. I went to the portland library, and they said I would need to pay $75.00 a year since I'm out-of-state. If my kids go to Oregon State Univ, I need to pay out-of-state tuition, even though I pay Oregon Taxes. A recent poll showed that the county in Washington state I live in currently pays more in Oregon taxes then all but 5 counties in Oregon. And of course I couldn't vote on the tax increase/decrease measures a little while back, because I'm not an oregon resident. Hmmm, sounds like taxation without representation to me...h

      Don't know about Oregon's total tax burden, but I always heard the opposite. No sales tax, but has the nations highest property taxes, and their income tax is pretty high as well. I'm a homeowner in WA, and my property taxes are lower than my aunt's house in OR, even though she has a smaller house and smaller lot. WA has no state income tax, but since I work in Oregon, I get screwed. An Oregon rep once told me the reason I have to pay Oregon Income tax is because there are, "Certain amount of jobs in Oregon, with a certain amount of tax dollars associated with it. It doesn't matter where you live, because you took an Oregon job away from an Oregonian, and are still liable for the associated tax"... I've never heard such BS.

      Oregon roads are torn to shreads. ODOT (Oregon Dept of Trans) had this brilliant idea that instead of using gravel to "sand" the roads when it snows, to use salt instead. If they decided to use just salt, it wouldn't bother me, because I can just rinse down the car. But they opted for a blend!!! So now in addition to rock chips on my car, I have to worry about salt getting under the paint. Whoo hoo! And don't get me started on public transportation. They created this stupid light rail system called MAX. Its an expensive train that goes nowhere of interest. In fact, on the westside, they could've chosen a route that stops by many popular places. But instead they chose a route that doesn't. A few miles north or south would've been awesome, but instead they chose a useless one. In fact it features a stop in front of an abandoned building. And since its above ground, you STILL have to deal with traffic. Especially since we have bozos here who try to walk in front of them, or try to "race" them with their car through an intersection.

      And get this. A little while ago, the chief of ODOT was interviewed about the freeway problems. Especially on US-26. ODOT just received federal money, and he was asked if they were going to use it to widen US-26. His response was, "That would be an innappropriate use of the funds". He said that they would use the money to renovate some parks in Tigard, and build a bike path, etc etc. He said that local money should be levied to widen US-26. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the federal money supposed to be used for maintenence of the federal hiways, namely: US-26, I-405, I-5, I-84, and I-205?!!! In college one of my classes talked about the federal freeway system, and that's what we learned. That's why you'll find federal freeways that seem useless, but are federal so the state doesn't have to pay as much to maintain them. Our lives would be MUUUUUCH improved if they widened all the freeways here instead of built that bull sh*t system called MAX.

      Then to alleviate traffic ODOT goes and puts a carpool lane in I-5. Normally I like carpool lanes, living in LA while going to college... But guess what ODOT did. Hmmm, I-5 traffic sucks? Lets turn one of the lanes into a carpool lane. Yup, you heard me right. They took a 3 lane hiway with bad traffic, and made it a 2 lane hiway with a carpool lane. To make matters worse, its only a carpool lane from 3 to 6 pm. On top of that, no notion of a double yellow like california, so you can enter wherever you want. So you have to constantly be aware of people trying to get in... Net effect: People drive like 10mph in the carpool lane, so they don't rear-end the people who just pull in. And since its only from 3-6pm, it makes the lane useless. Did I mention the carpool lane is only like 3 miles long?
  • For EVERYONE:

    Database Nation [databasenation.com]
  • "Meanwhile, Sen. Maria Cantwell (news - bio - voting record) is proposing legislation to help identity theft victims.

    Her measure to Congress is based on a Washington state law that went into effect in July. Under the measure, retailers would have to provide identity theft victims with copies of all fraudulent records, and credit agencies would have to block bad credit information on their reports if they were the result of identity theft."

    Fraudulent records? bad credit info? Sez who? you?
    Will the onus still be on the victim of identity theft to prove all this? If so, I don't see how it's going to help. Some hapless victims have been told it would be easier for them to change their names, etc. than to straighten out the mess that's been made of their lives.

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