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Censorship

"Future Tech" vs KDE Developer 292

Posted by CmdrTaco from the employee-beware dept.
Once in awhile a story comes along that warrants mention just so that people know to be careful. Mosfet is a KDE coder (who has had tension with KDE in the past and left some ill will over there). He was hired by Future Technology to continue work on his Liquid KDE style and theme (my personal favorite). But they never paid him, so he removed their name and mentioned it in the Changelog. Now FT is threatening legal action to get the Changelog off the net. But it's more bizarre because MandrakeSoft is the host, and the site remains up. Keep reading if you're interested in a few more bits.

I've been a huge fan of Liquid for some time. I've been compiling releases and using on my laptop. The project isn't nearly as ambitious as Enlightenment, but it has some interesting UI ideas and it looks good. I was really pleased when I found out that Mosfet was going to have a shot at continuing the development of the program for FT under the KDE License. At this point, FT ("The Total Linux Company," according to their website) mentioned a few of the features in Liquid as being part of the benefits of FT's distribution. This was to set them apart from "Other" distributions, although even at the time I found it funny, as The final decision in selecting one RPM based distribution over another would rarely be tipped in favor of the one with translucent menus ;)

Anyway the Changelog contains the following line:

* Future Technologies' name has been removed. They hired me to do KDE development, but failed to pay me after promising to do so three times over the span of several months :( I still haven't seen any of the paychecks they said they would send me, and they even went as far as sending me a fake FedEx number. Now they are saying they can't afford to pay their employees.

And soon after Mosfet's website announced that he was leaving Linux and Liquid was dead. Unable to afford to develop Liquid for free, he was seeking work in the windows world.

According to the site, on 10/28, Dr. Giovanni asked Mandrakesoft, the host of Mosfet.org to take down the site, under threat of legal action. But since I see the site still there, it looks like they are standing their ground which is a good thing.

Anyway, I don't know what the moral of the story is, beyond a warning to keep both eyes open. There is a lot of questionable stuff that goes on in this world. Be careful.

(I've emailed Giovanni from FT but have yet to hear back from him.)
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"Future Tech" vs KDE Developer More

"Future Tech" vs KDE Developer

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  • Interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by edashofy ( 265252 ) on Sunday October 28, 2001 @10:13PM (#2491120)
    If the story is true, isn't it interesting that they can't afford to pay this guy for his work but they can afford the legal costs to sue him? Or maybe they got a lawyer to take it on contingency. If they won the lawsuit, would they have to pay him out of their winnings?

    • Re:Interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 28, 2001 @10:24PM (#2491167)
      isn't it interesting that they can't afford to pay this guy for his work but they can afford the legal costs to sue him?

      Well I don't know if they are actually suing the guy. Anybody (including you!) can "threaten" to sue anybody else for the low, low price of $0.
    • That's what "contingency" means... that the pay is contingent upon winning. Of course, show me a lawyer who'll take a contingency case against an open source developer and I'll show you a lawyer who graduated "summa cum duh" from his law school.

    • Re:Interesting... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by CoolVibe ( 11466 )
      Well... They made threats. The funny thing about a threat is that you actually don't have to do it. That's called an empty threat, and it usually makes you look more silly if that's obvious.

      So they threatened mosfet, but they can't live up to it because they cannot pay the legal costs, which makes it an empty threat, as mosfet correctly states. And yes, it does make them look pretty silly. I wouldn't take them seriously, and I am glad that Mandrakesoft didn't take them seriously as well.

      Actually, this saddenes me a bit to see people take advantage of the incredible amount of work and effort that someone puts into his/her work, and not even pay the friggin' invoice if they hired that person to do that work for them. Mosfet is absolutely in his right here. If they were successful in removing mosfet's site I would have mirrored it everywhere. Heck, I might even donate money so he will get his money without the help of that screwy company.

      Actually, I had almost given up on him. The last time I checked out his site before this article appeared there was nothing there. I'm glad Mosfet joined our ranks again, since he's a good programmer. He's responsible for a lot of stuff you use if you use KDE 2.

  • Sad Story (Score:3, Informative)

    by digital_freedom ( 453387 ) on Sunday October 28, 2001 @10:13PM (#2491121)
    This is a sad case of an open source software developer getting burned by companies promising large and delivering little. It just shows how important it is to keep control of your intellectual property until the checks roll in.

    • Re:Sad Story (Score:4, Insightful)

      by grammar nazi ( 197303 ) on Sunday October 28, 2001 @10:24PM (#2491166) Journal
      It's not all bad. Sure, the guy got screwed. The company got screwed and now they're threatening Mandrakesoft.

      The general public, on the other hand, got a really kewl KDE theme with translucent menus. That's the benefit of Open source. Hopefully development will continue from somewhere to turn this into a mature feature of KDE. If not, then somebody else can pick up the code and continue to improve it. If it wasn't open sourced, you can be assured that it would be dead in the water, never to mature.

      • Re:Sad Story (Score:2, Informative)

        by AndroidCat ( 229562 )
        It's not all bad. Sure, the guy got screwed. The company got screwed and now they're threatening Mandrakesoft.

        How did the company get screwed? It can hardly be "work for hire" if they never paid him. And since it's open source, they can still use the code.

        It's been my experience that as soon as a company gets shifty with paycheques: bouncing, not paying on time with no notification or explaination, "the cheque is in the mail" and it isn't, etc, then it's time to prep-to-bail ASAP.(One trick for cheque-bouncers: Take it to their bank and try to get it certified. If it fails, wait until payday for the remaining employees and try again.)
      • I think it's rather selfish to brush him off and just take his code. It also should be noted that Liquid is licensed under the QPL, which probably isn't considered open source.
        Mosfet is a great developr for KDE and I think the least we could do is show our support and appreciation to him.

    • Re:Sad Story (Score:4, Interesting)

      by FFFish ( 7567 ) on Sunday October 28, 2001 @11:58PM (#2491432) Homepage
      I dunno. Sounds to me like Mosfet is a real weiner: he left the KDE team all in a huff, and strikes up a new working relationship where he also gets upset.

      Common factor in both cases is him.

      I suspect we don't have the whole story.
      • I use and like KDE but they can get political and huffy themselves. I'm sure that their's more to than we know.

        The FT site is kind of lame, it self-certified for SSL in products, kinda feels like a "blue smoke and mirrors" biz plan as they have no products for sale under products, not even get you free soft-ware CD for $15.95 shipping and handeling!

        my crystal ball says' Daniel M. Duley got in a tiff and the boot over some silly political/ego thing. Afterwards though "OMG I gotta eat, pay rent ect." and took the first thing that came by and didn't even do basic research on the hiring company'.

        I guess this is a natural progression, of the dotCOM BS biz plan; know that the VC's are to smart for'em, they start working on programmers; weaqther this applies to Future Technologies remains to be seen.
      • I had the misfortune to do purchase a product from FT. As a result, I believe Mosfet in this scenario.

        The product still hasn't arrived, several months after it's promissed date. If it were worth more, I would sue them. I suspect that they calculated on this. But the way they reportedly treated Mosfet is quite consistent with the way they treated me. And they still have the gall to send me ads.

  • Mechanic's lein (Score:4, Informative)

    by Russ Nelson ( 33911 ) <slashdot@russnelson.com> on Sunday October 28, 2001 @10:16PM (#2491130) Homepage
    Seems to me that, if the facts are as stated, Mosfet has a clear mechanic's lein on the software. If it was done as a work for hire, and he was not paid, then he owns the copyright free and clear.
    -russ

    • Re:Mechanic's lein (Score:3, Interesting)

      by crakrjak ( 218567 )
      if you ask me, mosfet is totaly right and FT will have to pay. But my question is why any programmer would work for such a company after visiting their web site? After visiting the FT web site, it seems to me that this "company is doomed for failure and is so unoriginal. It sounds like someone just tried to jump on the open source bandwagon and tried to make big bucks without providing anything back to opensource technologies... If FT ever approached me to work for them i would just laught at them.

      just my 2 cents worth...

  • *sigh* (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Now we know what the geek equivalent of a soap opera is... What next? Will RMS jump in and change the changelog to read GNU/something? Stay tuned!

    This also reminds me why I would have to be hogtied to watch a soap opera... Ugh, boring social interaction--thank God for the internet!

  • Mosfet should sue FT!! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by digital_freedom ( 453387 ) on Sunday October 28, 2001 @10:20PM (#2491149)
    I beleive Mosfet has a right to sue FT for making downloads of FTLiquid available even though they haven't paid him for his work. He should still retain the copyrights to his work and be able to control the distribution of it. Or does that not play in the Open source framework?

    It's a shame that a decent dude lost his apartment, had a sore ass, and has to deal with a loser CEO.

    Good luck Mosfet, maybe we should start a charity fund.

    • For most Open Source guys, it's not about getting rid of copyright. (And for those of us for whom that is what it's about, we usually say, "free software" instead of "open source.") In fact, an inordinate number of us use copyright to protect our desire to have our work be part of the open source (or free software) world. Richard Stallman, the guy who first verbalized the principles of free software, basically doesn't believe software should be copyrighted, but uses copyright law to protect his work from the evil he believes it would be part of if it were proprietary and copyrighted. Confusing, huh? :)



      As for the issue at hand, if the copyright holder of the work (be that FT or Mosfet) has ever made it available under a free software and/or open source license, nobody can sue to have it taken down. Such licenses (by definition) are irrevocable, and grant unlimited redistribution rights to everyone.



      So, even if FT owns the copyright (doubtful), they can't stop someone else from distributing what they gave them a license to distribute. Just another example, I guess, of a company that was firmly committed to Open Source, until the dot bomb revolution.



      This is the first post I've ever made where I feel compelled to mention that I am not a lawyer. If you're trying to get legal advice from slashdot in general, and me in particular, you're sick and need help. Please don't sue me for legal malpractice or whatever it is you can do to poor saps who accidentally give legal advice (how is that possible for crying out loud) without uttering the magic legal disclaimer of IANAL.

  • he was under with FT. Why kind of IP rights were given out and taken etc. If they had no paid him... I would assume they broke thier end of thier contract and have no right to his IP, developed for them or not. Maybe I am missing the point. . . .
    • IANYL

      Assuming that everything in the story is true, and that the contract included terms to pay Mosfet for his work, then FT is in breach of contract, and any consideration that Mosfet assigned to FT through the contract (including assignment of IP rights) is void. So all such considerations remain with Mosfet, and FT has no rights at all. In fact, Mosfet has the right to sue for breach of contract, which allows you to up the damages way beyond the real damages.

      Of course, this has a lot of assumptions in it. I certainly haven't read the contract, and I have no way to know that what Mosfet and FT are saying about the situation is even remotely true.
  • This company (Future Tech) commits fraud by not paying an employee for his work, and then THEY sue HIM when he tells them to pound sand??!!

    Something seems very wrong here.....very wrong indeed.

  • If this were all closed source (proprietary) tech, then there would be no such thing as a changelog, or it would be internal, and also proprietary.

    • I'm probably just feeding the trolls because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. First of all, companies always keep changelogs (at least companies that plan on being around next year do). But more importantly, if you're hired on contract (as this guy apparantly was), if they don't pay you then you have no reason to turn over your work, whether or not it would have ended up being proprietary. The non-disclosure agreement they would have made you sign might prevent you from turning it into open source, though.

      And most importantly, how is this an open source problem? This case is only a matter of where the software ended up after FT broke their contract. Contracts get broken every day - just only this one made it on Slashdot.
  • http://www.futuretg.com/
  • I don't know why he thought he'd ever be paid.

    Their site [futuretg.com] looks like it's been designed by a group of kids for a school project.

    Liquid [mosfet.org] is very damn cool though, if you don't mind wasting some cpu cycles for your eye's pleasure :)

    • I agree the mosfet theme is increadebly functional and less ram intensive then others i've see (Ex. aqua graphite, Luna...) and as an end user i really don't much care that the most recent source code for it is no longer available, however some of his old stuff is coverd by the Gpl and i hope some day an ambiseos programer will take the rains and make an even better theme. Mosfet was indeed talented but alas he has made up his mind and won't be comming back to the linux community. btw I am uning the high prefomence theme right now.
    • did apple rip off the look from mosfet or did mosfet rip off the look from apple's OS X?

  • oh, come on! (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 28, 2001 @10:34PM (#2491203)
    Mosfet is maybe a good programmer - but he surely doesn't know either to do person to person work (meaning - to keep business relationships straight and know how to work with people "above" him)...

    Go ahead - ask any KDE developer about Mosfet behavior, how he cannot accept responsibility with deadlines (no mosfet, you cannot add big features after freeze and after everyone submitted everything!), how he leaves projects dead in the cold after he started them (remember Pixie? his daily desktop screenshot maybe? etc..) and how he's kicked out of every job (Mandrake, thekompany, and others who simply didn't want to hire him because his 5 years old behavior)

    So no, I don't know the story exactly about his relations with Future Technologies - but if I might guess - he managed once again to piss off few people there...

    MOSFET - GROW UP!

    YoGy

    • so ... ? (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Bake ( 2609 )
      That is not the issue!

      Future Tech hired the man. He does some work, they fork over some money. Plain and simple.

      Companies can't get away with acting like kids, i.e. "Hey, this guy really is a pain in the ass, let's just NOT pay him for his work".

      If the company doesn't want to pay him, fine, then why don't they just fire him?

      • Re:so ... ? (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        So far all I've seen is HIS side of the story. if you are ready to judge them on what has been presented here, then you are being naive and simple minded. I, for one, would like to see a reply from them before I take this guys word that they have screwed him over without cause.
      • Alas you just don't know Mosfet, the parent post is 100% spot on.. Mosfet needs some professional help, seriously (unfortunatly he can't afford it).

        This is kinda ironic as after he had a 3 year old like tantrum (if I can do exactly what I want at the expense of all the other developers involved in KDE I'm taking my ball home) and left KDE, he posted on his web page something like "neer neer, I have another paying job to continue working on KDE anyway". Now it turns out that he didn't even get paid for it.

        My guess is that you'll see a few posts that aren't so kind to Mosfet. Remember this is just one side of the story, what happened while he was at Future Tech and knowing his attitude he sure pissed off a few people.

      • Future Tech hired the man. He does some work, they fork over some money. Plain and simple.

        Except that they apparentlt didn't fork over the money. Then got upset when he didn't hand over the work. By the sound of things they want to have their cake and eat it.

  • Beware (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by pete-classic ( 75983 )
    of companies with self-signed certificates!

    -Peter
  • Are there styles available for KDE 2.2 other than Liquid? I'd like to see something a bit more innovative than his rip off of Mac OS X. What others are available and is there a website that features them?

    David

    • Re:Other UI Styles? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Samawi I ( 444697 )
      QNiX is a new style that's been getting alot of attention lately:
      http://apps.kde.com/nfinfo.php?vid=4234

      For more themes and styles for KDE there is a new website as well:
      http://www.kde-look.org/

      Samawi I

      • kde-look.org (Score:2, Offtopic)

        by Spy Hunter ( 317220 )
        KDE-Look [kde-look.org] is a great site! It's got all sorts of great stuff, more than kde.themes.org ever had, and better too. The site has more features, a better interface, and it is updated more often than kde.themes.org, and it is here right now.

        I especially like the Noatun skin section, I had no idea that there were such cool skins out there that Noatun could use. Now if only Noatun would stop skipping and get more playlist features, it would be better than XMMS.

        Oh, and for a cool wallpaper no matter what desktop you are using, try this [kde-look.org] artful take on a crash :-)

    • Most people who settle in for the long haul of writing a debugging a new theme do so because they want it to look like something they've already seen and liked. Having written a few themes myself, it's easy to say "make something totally new" than it is to make something totally new that doesn't suck.

      One of the more original themes for KDE is the default high-color theme. It doesn't look like anything else out there, but it doesn't suck either. My third favorite after the default and Liquid is Qnix. Of course you won't like it, as it emulates the QNX look.

  • it's the name, stupid (Score:5, Funny)

    by Kiro ( 220724 ) on Sunday October 28, 2001 @10:49PM (#2491251)
    maybe they call themselves Future Tech because whenever you ask about the salary, they talk in the future tense

    .

  • Is Mosfet In Breach of Contract?? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Mosfet should look at the fine print of his contract to make sure he has fulfilled all of his obligations, including notification of his employer that they had breached the contract and that he was severing it. With common contractual provisions in place, it's quite possible that Mosfet himself could be found in breach of contract, if he did not submit a formal WRITTEN letter to his employer (at a contractually defined postal address) notifying them of their failings and his cancellation of the contract. BTW: has Mosfet also submitted a bill? If Mosfet hasn't precisely adhered to the contract himself, he may find himself effectively trading his failure(s) for his employer's and wind up with zilch, nada, nothing in return.
    • When both parties to a contract are equally at breach, then judges usually rule that the contract is void, unless either or both parties can show real damages. In that case, the judges usually subtract the smaller real damages from the larger real damages, and awards the difference without allowing any punitive damages.

      In this case, since Liquid was a "product" that existed before the contract with FT, I don't really see how a judge would award IP rights to FT.

      Once again, I haven't seen the contract, blah blah blah. etc etc etc.

  • Best to withhold judgment. We've only seen 1 side (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 28, 2001 @10:54PM (#2491268)
    I've seen a few of these disputes with ex-employees. In many cases, the ex-employee posts material that is inaccurate (or even downright lies). Even so, the company can only hurt itself by getting into a public debate, and usually is advised to avoid this.

    Of course, it is also possible the facts are exactly as he stated. Without more information, you just can't tell.
  • ...fight Apple to the death. The Liquid looks very much like Aqua (aqua = liquid, get it?). Apple may let it go if it is just a couple of people doing an Aqua clone theme for fun, but once money is involved they will likely sue. I don't see it as a smart move if Future Tech try to claim ownership of it. After all Apple did spend lots of time and money on this new look of OSX, I think it is within their right.

    Maybe Mosfet should try to get a contract with Apple to "port" the Aqua look over to KDE, Enlightenment, etc.
    • If apple sues they are on some mighty thin legal ice. Maybe a lot of you don't remember these law suits, but Microsoft was sued by Apple in the 80s (or was it early 90s) for emulating the Mac Look&Feel too closely. There was also a lawsuit about this with regard to spreadsheets (lotus and excel if I recall correctly). The courts ruled in both cases that a look&feel (i.e. an interface) is not a copyrightable or otherwise protectable asset. It'd be liking a car company protecting where the shifter and steering wheel go in a car.

      Since Apple has already lost at least one law suit in this exact arena, they can sue all they want. Unless they can prove that their actually intellectual property was stolen (i.e. their images used directly without permission) then they'll have a tough case ahead of them. A judge may even dismiss the case imeediately due to lack of merit (although IANAL, I just do a lot of reading.)

      In most cases these Mac OSX like themes have committed 1 of 2 crimes: Using apple images or using apple names. Liquid doesn't appear to do either. Which means apple would have one hell of a time fighting it legally.

  • Why is this in censorship rather than humor? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Nailer ( 69468 ) on Sunday October 28, 2001 @11:05PM (#2491300)
    Come on, who didn't burst out laughing when they saw Future Tech's website? [futuretg.com]

  • Evil thought... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sterno ( 16320 ) on Sunday October 28, 2001 @11:12PM (#2491316) Homepage
    This may be slightly offtopic, but my thought came about because of how one problem with a developer can cascade into problems for other people, organizations, and companies.

    What if somebody began contributing code to the Linux Kernel? It might take a while for them to develop a good reputation, but perhaps over a year or two make a number of important contributions to the system. Then after they've thoroughly integrated their code into the kernel it turns out that their code violates somebody's intelletcual property. Be that copyright, patent law, etc. How would that effect the Kernel?

    What I was considering is that this might be a back door tactic that somebody like Microsoft could use. If they could get people to infest the kernel with copyrighted and patented code it could really hose up the works it seems.

    I don't know the feasibility of such an attack, but I figured I'd throw it out there and see what people think. Please feel free to gun down my post :)

    • Re:Evil thought... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by greenfly ( 40953 )
      Eh, probably the same thing would happen that happened when there were licensing problems with ipfw in OpenBSD. They just removed all that code and a developer reimplimented it.

    • Re:Evil thought... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Corydon76 ( 46817 ) on Sunday October 28, 2001 @11:37PM (#2491373) Homepage
      While it didn't happen exactly the way you put it, something along these lines did in fact happen to a very prominent open source operating system about 10 years ago.

      A large software company decided to sue these developers, because they believed the developers illegally used their source code. While there was some code which was borrowed (and it was subsequently rewritten to exclude that code), during the discovery phase of that trial, it was discovered that the commercial company had borrowed a great deal of code from the open source developers.

      The case was eventually settled and the code is still available.

      Guess which codebase? This was 4.4BSD vs the commercial System V Unix. The open source developers won this one, thanks to the fact that the commercial software developers couldn't keep their hands off the open source (obviously being of better quality).

    • microsoft would love to do this; but they don't have anyone good enough to write code for the kernel.
      Have you ever looked at microsoft code?
      All of my instructors called that kind 'spaghetti code' and gave me a bad grade.
      leaving in the 'stubs' so that it takes up twice as much room is only done at microsoft.
      • Have you ever looked at microsoft code?
        All of my instructors called that kind 'spaghetti code' and gave me a bad grade.

        Microsoft apparently calls it "intergration".
        IIRC in the trial it was discovered that at least some of this (intermingling unrelated functions between DLLs, leading to the "requires Internet Explorer Version X" on programs which never ever attempt to browse the web) appeared to be deliberate.

    • Re:Evil thought... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by maw ( 25860 ) on Monday October 29, 2001 @01:41AM (#2491604) Journal
      Well, I hope that never happens. (Although other posters have claimed that it has. Oh well.)

      It's to prevent such problems that the FSF requires people making significant contributions to a GNU Project project to sign their copyrights (for just that specific project, of course) to the FSF. Everyone agrees that it's a pain, but most people (but not all, such as some XEmacs hackers) agree with the reasoning behind it.

      It would be a shame if someone tried to pull a stunt like that on the Linux kernel. If it did happen, you can bet that RMS would be jumping up and down and waving his arms around frantically explaining why people running free software projects should collect copyright assignments. As usual, he'd be right.

    • Re:Evil thought... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by blakestah ( 91866 ) <blakestah@gmail.com> on Monday October 29, 2001 @02:14AM (#2491644) Homepage
      What I was considering is that this might be a back door tactic that somebody like Microsoft could use. If they could get people to infest the kernel with copyrighted and patented code it could really hose up the works it seems.

      No, the world is moving in an altogether direction. Support. Microsoft is now selling subscriptions. They will sell this as comparable, but value added, compared to linux.

      To whit: if you get linux, you have to maintain it, and periodically upgrade it. This costs money. To get MSFT Windows, you need to purchase it, and pay subscription costs.

      Microsoft will be VERY convincing to CTOs that their model will end up saving the corporations money because of "hidden" support costs. This is Microsoft's big counter for linux being free. They pose as providing the thing that does cost money in linux - expertise and updating. This is a very intelligent business counter to Free Software. After all - this is M$ - and they do not bank a BILLION dollars in profit per month because they make dumb business decisions.

  • once in a while? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jonbrewer ( 11894 ) on Sunday October 28, 2001 @11:12PM (#2491321) Homepage
    This shit happens every day. Maybe it's time for an Open Source blacklist?

    (not that I'd want to have anything to do with it.)

  • http://www.futuretg.com/FT/contact.html (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    http://www.futuretg.com/FT/contact.html

    LOL, odd isn't it, the really swish building is 'under setup' and their current premise sis a shit hole.
  • I for one am glad that they pissed off mosfet, I've been waiting for continued development of Liquid for quite sometime. Go Mosfet!

  • Breach of Contract (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bwt ( 68845 ) on Sunday October 28, 2001 @11:52PM (#2491414)
    If I understand this correctly, FT made a contract with Mosfet to pay him to code specific software. He performed his part of the bargain, but they breached the contract.

    Now THEY claim that they are going to sue!? If anything, HE should be suing THEM. Given their bad faith threats he'd have a good chance at getting more than actual damages.

    By the way, it sounds a whole lot like he's an independent contractor instead of an employee, so unless their contract is written and explicitly signs the copyright over, even if they do pay him, he still owns the copyright. See CCNV v Reid [findlaw.com].
    • Of course, IANAL, but I think the reference to CCNV vs. Reid is totally off base. That case rules that a commissioned statue isn't a "work for hire", and thus those rules don't apply. Contract software most certainly IS work for hire. You're copyright most certain does go to the party that pays for the work.

      At least, that is what everything I have ever read or heard implies.

      • Re:Breach of Contract (Score:3, Insightful)

        by bwt ( 68845 )
        You're copyright most certain does go to the party that pays for the work.

        It appears you didn't read the case. That was the precise issue before the Court in CCNV v. Reid. They wrote:

        The Copyright Act of 1976 provides that copyright ownership "vests initially in the author or authors of the work." 17 U.S.C. s 201(a). As a general rule, the author is the party who actually creates the work, that is, the person who translates an idea into a fixed, tangible expression entitled to copyright protection. s 102.
        Why you refuse to see that a freelance sculpture is the same as freelance software is beyond me. There is a list of types of work that can be work for hire (see below). Software, like sculpture, is not one of them. Independent contractors who create software retain the copyright unless it is explicitly signed over. That's the law. See for example, this resource [fplc.edu] if you need to hear it from a lawyer.

        At least, that is what everything I have ever read or heard implies.

        Well, then you are reading or hearing the wrong thing. In particular, you could try THE LAW ITSELF (gasp), which is discussed in the case I cited. 17 USC 101:

        * A ''work made for hire'' is -
        * (1) a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her employment; or
        * (2) a work specially ordered or commissioned for use as a contribution to a collective work, as a part of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, as a translation, as a supplementary work, as a compilation, as an instructional text, as a test, as answer material for a test, or as an atlas, if the parties expressly agree in a written instrument signed by them that the work shall be considered a work made for hire.
    • If I understand this correctly, FT made a contract with Mosfet to pay him to code specific software.

      You're also assuming that Mosfet fulfilled his end of the bargain. Who's to say that he never finished his assignment as given by FT. Not that I'm willing to give FT the benefit of the doubt, but (from all accounts) Mosfet ain't no saint either...

      Heh. Good laugh on the FT site: "FT OSX". They'll steal just about anything, eh? BTW, can someone tell me what "anti-sniffer technology" is?
  • Maybe he should get sued by Apple.

    I'd like statistics on which happens more often - Linux folk trashing everything Apple does, or Linux folk immediately turning around and ripping off as much as they can from Apple. This theme could have been called "kOS X".
  • It's no wonder that they "can't pay their employees", they're charging $49.95 [futuretg.com] for a beta version of the FTOSX. Not only are they not going to sell enough of these to pay for a developer to build anything, they aren't going to come close to paying a legal team to fight the OSX name usage battle.

  • Take them to a collection agency (Score:3, Informative)

    by goingware ( 85213 ) on Monday October 29, 2001 @12:35AM (#2491507) Homepage
    The Commercial Lawyers Network [comlawnet.com] - "the internet collection agency" - has an easy to use form you can fill out to begin the collection process.

    They also have attorneys on staff, and will work with law firms in other cities if it comes to a lawsuit and you need local representation.

    They take 20%, which is quite a bit, but note that they specialize in large business collections.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • If there is no written contract and if he has received no payments, they probably don't have a legal leg to stand on. Why any of this is relevant to Slashdot, I don't know, however.

  • Tune in tomorrow.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by mrbill ( 4993 ) <mrbill@mrbill.net> on Monday October 29, 2001 @03:23AM (#2491718) Homepage
    For another exciting episode of "As the Hard Drive Turns"! Open-Source soap opera at its finest..
  • Different countries have different laws for handling this sort of situations. Here in Finland, the state quarantees the salary of workers, if the employer is unable to pay it. I think this requires that the company has been filed for bankruptcy.

    Future Tech seems to be an Italian company, with a branch in US, and Mosfet appears to live in US too, so I guess this would be handled according to US law (read the work contract and check the employment and contract laws). Somehow I doubt that US government would quarantee salaries in bankruptcy situations.

    I don't have a faintest idea about Italian law, and I don't think there's an EU directive for this situation.

    IANAL
    • Future Tech seems to be an Italian company, with a branch in US, and Mosfet appears to live in US too, so I guess this would be handled according to US law (read the work contract and check the employment and contract laws). Somehow I doubt that US government would quarantee salaries in bankruptcy situations.

      The US Government does not guarantee salaries in bankruptcy situations, but employee salaries are first priority in a bankruptcy case. However, independent contractors are just another vendor, afaik, and are likely to get screwed. They are likely to be able to take their work product back, if that's possible, but that's not going to be resalable for open-source development.


  • I don't know about this place. Seems like those old dodgy linux startups we used to hear about when there was more ready money in the linux world.

    I surfed over to the site as one of the comments mentioned that it was somewhat funny and tried to go to the store to see what their products would be. Konqueror halted me telling me that their certificate is self-signed and thus may not be trustworthy

    Sure enough, the Certificate and the Issuer have the same address, email contact, everything!!

  • Take a look at the history (Score:3, Insightful)

    by theshunt ( 212473 ) on Monday October 29, 2001 @08:02AM (#2492036) Homepage
    This is not the first time Mosfet huffed and puffed. He has done it to KDE. Not once, but twice. In a smaller way, he did it to Mandrakesoft. Now he did it to Future Technologies. I am a big KDE advocate. I also use Mandrake Linux. I follow what happens with the KDE Community, and it is apparent that Mosfet has serious "mood swings."

    I would assume that he's hiding something, just because of his rep.

  • It is scary.... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Dog and Pony ( 521538 )
    ... that it is so easy to be judged and then placed in the central square for the ritual tomato throwing.

    I mean, come on.... if it is true, then by all means, string them up by their balls. But where is the proof?

    What if I put up a page where I said that Slashdot hired me, and then refused to pay me - would you run that story? If I said it was Microsoft then? I thought so.

    Maybe you know a lot about this guy, things that are not mentioned around here, but so far, all I see is this guy ranting about he didn't get any money from this company. Which may, or may not be true.

    Of course, we want it to be true, so we can point our finger at, and hopefully ruin this bad, bad company. What if this guy is lying then? Slashdot is in no way almighty, but it does have some impact on the linux world, or at least we would like to think so. It is not nice to write such about a company that may be struggling without any proof.

    So, where is the proof?

  • Giovanni is EVIL (Score:4, Funny)

    by erroneus ( 253617 ) on Monday October 29, 2001 @08:42AM (#2492084) Homepage
    Without having read too much, I can assure you that this Giovanni character is evil to the core. According to my sons, he is responsible for the reprehensible actions of "Team Rocket" and directed the research that lead to MewTwo!

    I understand that the quest for the ultimate Chinpokomon is important and we all must destroy the evil power. So this Giovanni guy must be shamed out of the Chinpokomon arena forever.

    But please do not be angry with me. I have a very small penis. It's not huge like your penis...

  • Very juvenile (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Junks Jerzey ( 54586 )
    You don't go publicly badmouthing a company and burning your bridges because of private business dealings gone sour. That's what you'd expect from a 14 year old who hasn't been around.


  • From http://www.linuxutilities.org/Why.html [linuxutilities.org]:

    "Therefore, there are a lot of work to do, to simplify ... to complete ... to enhance ... to be more confortable your Linux and Unix based system!"

    At least I am confortable knowing they are as professional as slashdot! ;)

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