Adobe Backs Down 210
bruthasj writes "Adobe is going to pull out of prosecuting Dmitry, according to this." I'm glad to see that justice was served after screwing this guy over. Of course the real point was made: "We have the power. Don't reverse engineer our toys" since the guy is still in Jail, and this is "The United States Vs" and not "Adobe Vs".
From the Press Release (Score:1)
ElcomSoft's Advanced eBook Processor software is no longer available in the United States, and from that perspective the DMCA worked.
Heh, unless you go to www.elcomsoft.com, of course. It's still available for download, there.
The important thing: (Score:2)
Re:Is that a good thing? (Score:2)
uhh... he seems to still be in jail. This isn't over yet.
At least Adobe is being somewhat cool about this finally (for the second time in a month (Killustrator) - yikes!).
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Re:Thank you Adobe... but (Score:1)
You're delusionally idealistic.
Quite right... (Score:1)
I should have noted where my explanation of your post left off and my own opinion began. Sorry bout that.
Let me clarify... (Score:4)
What he's saying is that the damage is done. Adobe pulling out at this point is meaningless. Therefore they should still be held responsible and the protests should continue.
What to do? COUNTERSUE FOR WRONGFUL ARREST! (Score:4)
Dimitry should countersue to "make an example of Adobe" to other corporations. The message being "wrongfully fucking with people will cost you bigtime dollars".
Re:DON'T SET HIM FREE! (Score:1)
The DMCA is only dangerous until someone calls its bluff. I think it's time.
While it may (and, indeed, is) time for it to be struck down, I do not feel that you, or I, or anyone save Mr. Sklyarov, has the right in this juncture to make that decision. It's his freedom, not yours. Do not take that away from him. He deserves it, and so do you. We all do. Never take away anyone's freedom.
"We have the right to believe at our own risk any hypothesis that is live enough to tempt our will."
Re:Yes, it is different where I live. (Score:1)
Wow! People in other parts of the world are actually buying it! Amazing...
Take a good hard look at our laws, people. Protectionism is far from dead. We talk the talk (in order to try to convince other nations to open up to our businesses) but we most certainly don't walk the walk. I always find it funny watching American politicians complain about trade barriers in other countries, none of which have half the protectionist legislation we have.
I never realized you guys out there were buying it, though. I thought it was just rhetoric intended for us US voters...
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Re:4. Is Alan Cox still not going to US convention (Score:1)
OTOH, don't let me discourage you from contributing to the ACLU as well. I think they're the best defenders our constitution has. Definately worth the price of a yearly magazine subscription...
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Yes, it is different where I live. (Score:2)
If you mean "do you live in a country that doesn't jail people for explaining why some types of encryption are weak" then the answer is YES, it is different where I live.
If you mean "do you live in a country where reverse engineering is legal" then the answer is YES, it is different where I live.
Yes, it is different where I live.
How very ironic that your American forefathers left my country of Britain over three hundred years ago because they feared prosecution over free speech, yet now I am frightened of visiting your country because I fear prosecution over free speech.
Fuck me, yes. Yes, yes, yes. It is different where I live.
Those of us who were born and live here have the duty to try and improve the place.
Yer not wrong there, mate.
What worries me is that you (plural; Americans as a whole) don't seem to be doing a very good job of it.
America, the country of free trade, is preventing my company from trading freely with your country, because I'm not allowed to visit my customer and explain why they might be about to choose a poor copy protection system.
That isn't just YOUR problem. It's mine too.
But I can't vote in your country. So all I can do is tell my boss that I can't visit our customer, and just hope that the message gets through.
You have *no* idea how helpless this makes me feel.
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Boycott America- Not Worth The Risk Of Visiting (Score:3)
I'd say it was his fault.
It was his fault for visiting a country with a repressive regime.
As an agnostic, if I visited the Iran, I would expect to be punished.
As a programmer who practices reverse engineering, if I visted the USA, I would expect to be punished.
I don't see what the big deal is. I just have to refuse to go to the USA until they repeal the DCMA. There are a whole host of third world countries with daft laws to prosecute foriegners. The USA is just another to add to this list.
Heck, I heard from a friend that they still practice the death penalty over there! What do you expect from those types of countries? Duh.
Unfortunately I work for a UK software house that has a large US oil conglomerate as a customer; I have previously had to travel to the US on business, and I am expected to travel there again soon. I'll just have to say no.
Even if it means loosing my job, it simply isn't worth going to the US to risk the chance of being imprisoned.
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Don't turn a "blind" eye to this angle (Score:5)
Re:4. Is Alan Cox still not going to US convention (Score:2)
This is the shit we have to put up with because people don't vote. If everyone who reads
Allot of people bitching about the government, but how many of you people vote? I'm more pissed at Joe Public for not voting than the FBI, the FBI like all other government agencies is a reflection of the voting public.
Re:Boycott America- Not Worth The Risk Of Visiting (Score:2)
Last year I worked out that an Efficient Networks' 5260 could be turned into a 5660 (out of necessity, I'd just bought a 5260 which is a doorstop over here and didn't want to lose my money)... I then told people about it... I assume a number of people in the US also found out about it.
The way the DMCA is being treated if I set foot in the US I would probably be arrested - over changing 3 bytes in a file.
The same goes for the italian who worked out how to turn a Speedtouch Home into a Speedtouch Pro (a single command).
I'll bet the are thousands of other programmers who cannot safely visit the US any more. Was the DMCA drawn up by the Taliban or something?
Re:This doesn't help. (Score:2)
What exactly did Adobe do yesterday? A symbolic gesture, at best. Nothing, at worst.
Re:That's like MSFT saying it won't ship free brow (Score:2)
I'm not a large customer. I only bought a package or two per year. But it's not happening anymore. And I'm not recommending them anymore. And I'm recommending alternatives. I'm even looking for alternatives to recommend. (What do you think of Deneba? Canvas is a pretty good product, but I don't know anything about the company... still, that's a lot better than what I do know about Adobe.)
I can imagine Adobe making just restitution, but until I have heard convincing evidence that they have done so, I don't expect to change my mind. It doesn't cost me significanly. And after awhile, it will cost me to go back, so they'll need to do better than even the scales.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
Re:1 While they look like nice guys (Score:2)
Also, I will not recommend their products. Also I will recommend against their products. And to any person that I feel open to ethical or moral arguments, I will describe why one should never purchase, lease, or recommend any product by Adobe. And to others, I will attempt to discover alternate products that more inexpensively meet their needs, or at least come suficiently close to meeting their needs that they will be satisfied. (Adobe certainly doesn't make perfect products either, after all.)
And I will decline to support any document in a proprietary Adobe protocol.
Note, this is basically a focusing and intensification of tendencies that I already had, so this is not an expensive strategy for me to adopt. But when a Windows graphics tool it needed, I will be likely to recommend Corel or Deneba rather and Adobe. (Actually, I prefer Canvas to Photoshop or Illustrator [it combines their functions], and only recommended Adobe because "it was popular", and people tended to already know it. That will no longer suffice as a reason. Actually, it will take a considerably stronger argument for me to consider it. And even then I won't agree to support it. (The absence of file conversion tools is a sufficiently good reason for refusing.)
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
Yes, sit on your arse some more, that'll help (Score:2)
Sheesh, this is Insightful? Only on Slashdot and in student union open meetings is the idea of sitting on your arse doing less considered an effective form of political protest. If you want to do something about this, and haven't yet boycotted your own bodily functions, why not head over to the EFF donations page [eff.org] and drop a few dollars in the hats of the people who are doing something about these injustices? You don't have to give much, but a buck for every lazy bleeding-heart post like yours would go a long way torwards furthering the guy's defence.
Thank you Adobe... but (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The Fight isn't over yet... (Score:5)
1. Dmitry is still in jail.
2. The DMCA is still on the books.
3. The EFF [eff.org] still needs your help.
Let's keep this momentum going!
Re:4. Is Alan Cox still not going to US convention (Score:2)
When you don't grant concessions in hostage negotiations, people die. Was Dmitry's life in danger? No? Maybe you should find a better analogy. . .
Time to wake up in Europe (Score:4)
Unfortunately the fight will go on, one very important round will be in Europe. The new copyright directive is at least as bad as DMCA. Therefore it's essential that everyone in Europe will be fighting on the national level to prevent the worst possible outcome (the problem is that unfortunately the directive doesn't give too much space for the national implementations) Still the questions like the level of copyright crimes in criminal law is up to the national states. The Sklyarov arrest should be a "good" case to use as warning example what too far reaching jurisdiction can cause.
The game has just started - stay informed and be active!
V.
My DeCSS archive:
Re:Does this mean we aren't protesting anymore? (Score:2)
The issue is with the DMCA. It allows for crap like this to happen. The more people who know the facts the better.
If the original's been slashdotted... (Score:2)
Damn, Taco! (Score:2)
Dmitri: "Look, piss-poor encryption!"
Adobe: "Raaa, woo, bluugh!"
Slashdot: "RAAA, WOO, BLUUGH!"
Adobe: *meep*
Taco: "RAAAAH!!! WOOO!!! BLUUUGH!!!"
Slashdot: "Uh, dude, it's over."
Taco: "RAAAAAHHH!!! --" [thump]
Uh, right.
-grendel drago
Does this mean... (Score:2)
That's the trouble with grand, explosive gestures like that...
-grendel drago
Re:Not Good Enough! (Score:2)
Just look around. There STILL isn't an Association of Information Technology Professionals backed by all of us. And we've been being abused for HOW long? It's clear now that the EFF is not our leader, and we therefore have no leader at all.
In other words, unless we organize (and weed out the whining teenagers who just are in it for the rebellion), we're going to continue to be screwed. We have lots of resources. It's high time we used them.
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Re: (Score:2)
Re:4. Is Alan Cox still not going to US convention (Score:3)
Indeed. Check out their Press Release:
I.e., "we'll do it again, and again, just not when you're looking."
So... we keep looking.
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Good discussion--let's do it again sometime (Score:2)
Just wanted to say, this is the most respectful introduction, to a rebuttal, that I have ever seen.
Part of a particularly well-reasoned discussion, esp. considering the politically hot subject.
Good reading today. Thank you (all) for making it so.
Thanks, but... (Score:2)
Those of us who were born and live here have the duty to try and improve the place.
Is it any different where you live?
Re:Worst thing that could have happened. (Score:2)
Here's what you do: violate the DMCA until you get thrown in jail, and have your case in court.
It's called civil disobedience.
BTW, You can't have a proxy go to jail for you, and still call it civil disobedience (not in my book).
Re:Good News, the only problem is... (Score:2)
Not Good Enough! (Score:5)
Good News, the only problem is... (Score:2)
now we don't get the opportunity to test the validity of the DMCA in the court system. Of course, I don't want to wish that on poor Dmitri. He has been abused enough by the FBI/Adobe in this matter.
This is probably why Adobe wanted the EFF to delay protesting though - they knew they were going to drop the charges and recommend he be released but had to go through the formality of meeting with the EFF to make sure they got the agreement of the other side first. Glad to see the protesters went out anyways - nothing shapes corporate opinion more than the potential of lost sales due to bad publicity.
Re:The Fight isn't over yet... (Score:2)
The EFF still needs your help.
that's why I'll be giving them a fat share of my Shrub-sponsored $300 tax rebate. Since that's where my tax dollars should be going anyways.
Re:Does this mean we aren't protesting anymore? (Score:5)
Re:Thank you Adobe... but (Score:4)
Oh, and don't forget to accept the terms of the license agreement before installing it.
Re:Don't turn a "blind" eye to this angle (Score:3)
However, this "read-aloud" right has to be set by the publisher or it the eBook reader won't pass the data through to the OS engine. And because cut-and-paste is restricted, a blind person can't just copy the text to a different program (like WordPad or SimpleText) and access the engine through that.
So basically, even though Adobe and the publisher contribute zero effort towards producing a feature (all the work is done by Apple/MS) they feel they still should get to decide when and how you use that feature. And I would bet money that the default option for the eBook encoder is to deny all rights. So basically, unless the publisher goes out of his or her way to enable the read-aloud right then blind people who download eBooks will be unable to listen to them or use their own accessibility tools to do so!
I have always thought that the best bet we have to get rid of the DMCA is to find one blind/deaf person who is unable to access content and then sue to have the DMCA overturned on the grounds that it violates the ADA. Fight fire with fire, fight one law with another law.
Consider the premise of the movie Memento. What if there are people out there who do not have the physical ability to remember as well as you or I? It is a content producer's wet dream for that use would have to pay for the same enjoyment over and over again. But is a pay-per-view billing scheme really fair to these people? Shouldn't their disability give them the right to record ANY content so they can view it at a later date?
- JoeShmoe
fight in courts != jailed programmers (Score:2)
How is this different from what I said?
DMCA is being fought in the courts, by the EFF. We don't need to have Dmitry in jail to do that. 2600 was censored by DMCA and the lower courts (1st amendment). Felten was censored by RIAA (1st amendment).
Why is Dmitry required to martyr himself so that our courts may make the right ruling on this law?
Heavens to mergetroid, he's not even out on bail at this point!
-Renard
why criminal? (Score:2)
and if it has to be a criminal case, why does it have to be Dmitry, rather than some US citizen (you?) who volunteers to be a test case and stays free on bail as the case works its way through the courts (c.f. the CDA case)?
-renard
NO - Free Dmitri FIRST (Score:5)
If you feel strongly about what they're doing (as I do), then join or make a donation (I did).
There's no need for Dmitri or anyone else to rot in jail while the legal maneuvering continues. We don't need to martyr anyone (esp. not foreign nationals) - we need the law overturned.
-Renard
Re:That's like MSFT saying it won't ship free brow (Score:5)
30 cents says he won't grant rights for an E-Book.
Adobe didn't back down, they did the smart thing. (Score:2)
Adobe had nothing to lose by giving this statement.
Re:Great. I'm sure this will be covered everywhere (Score:2)
The thing is that the media companies are what really pushed the DMCA into existance. Remember, most every publishing house, including newsprint, is owned by a much larger corperation that has fingers in many other sources.
NYT isn't one of those (they appear to have a large congomeration of things that they own), but understand that they, as a *publishing house* so they might be "playing nice" as well.
http://www.nytco.com/ (NYT comapany link)
Man, I'm starting to sound like a conspiricy theorist... and that scares me.
Worst thing that could have happened. (Score:5)
While this still may go to trial at the US government level, it seems it won't have as much affect on making citizens realize what is happening.
No, that's just a regular suit (Score:2)
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
Re:That's like MSFT saying it won't ship free brow (Score:2)
oh, sure, "we can't ignore a court order"
But the DMCA says:
to ''circumvent a technological measure'' means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner;
So, presumably, if Adobe says they give him authority, then all is well? Makes for an interesting licensing case. How much is your life for the next five years worth?
Re:Good News, the only problem is... (Score:2)
now we don't get the opportunity to test the validity of the DMCA in the court system. Of course, I don't want to wish that on poor Dmitri. He has been abused enough by the FBI/Adobe in this matter
Actually, now the DMCA has an even better shot. Just think if this went to the supreme court. On one hand you have a man who almost no one wants to see in jail, including the supposed "victim" of the crime. On the other, you have a law saying that he should be thrown in jail nonetheless. That is what the law says (except for the possible jurisdictional issues).
Re:Boycott America- Not Worth The Risk Of Visiting (Score:2)
Therefore the DMCA [cornell.edu] would appear to not in fact apply.
Ask a lawyer for real legal advice. A US lawyer.
Because you just never know... you might even get Judge Kaplan [uscourts.gov].
Re:why criminal? (Score:2)
If you'd like to "volunteer," violate the DMCA, flaunt it, and wait to be arrested.
One problem is that the groups of people who can do such a thing and those that would do not have much overlap. Most "revolutionary" types do not have the extensive knowlege required to actually commit a DMCA violation. Reverse engineering a copyright "protection" system is not trivial (I know that for some of you it may seem that way...).
How many people in any recent protest do you think even know what a hex editor is, much less how to use it?
Re:4. Is Alan Cox still not going to US convention (Score:2)
The EFF gained very little out of this whole event with Adobe. So Adobe has withdrawn their complaint, so what? Adobe has already had this man held. By withdrawing their complaint, and doing nothing else, Adobe does not right any wrongs perpetrated against this man. In fact, he is still a prisoner.
EFF gets little or nothing out of this deal- what they should have gotten was Adobe's ACTIVE participation in freeing this man. Such did not occur. Protests would have gained Adobe's withdrawal from this anyways, because Adobe doesn't need bad publicity, and because Sklyarov is facing Federal detention (and all of the byzantine mess that such detention entails). Adobe had nothing to lose by withdrawing at that point, whether EFF entered into negotiations with them or not.
My other statements in my post still stand until the EFF disproves them. I actually hope the EFF does just that. I would hate to think my donations to them went up in smoke.
mrgoat
Re:4. Is Alan Cox still not going to US convention (Score:3)
As for missing the point about this being a human issue, I do not. I asked if anyone was helping his wife. She and his family are largely ignored in most of these posts. I have not seen any place where I could send them kind words or money or any other form of support.
I pointed out that a company who had a vested interest in having this man imprisoned did just that, and are now safely out of the limelight. Responsibility for what occurred can be best applied by the company that had him kidnapped. However, Adobe has safely insulated themselves from having to do that now. The EFF can't touch them anymore. And before anyone might decide to apply the idea of callousness to the activities of a business enterprise, please remember that the ONLY responsiblity a company has is to it's stockholders. Human considerations in that equation are secondary.
As for Sklyarov, the federal government may hold him indefinitely, without charging him. My point wasn't about whether EFF made the "right choice" or not. The EFF blinked, and every other corporation looking to screw people like Sklyarov were watching. Callousness? Think of every person like Sklyarov out there who might get detained now, and think about how those other corporations will use Adobe's bait-n-switch tactic in the future...
As for my own lack of illusions about Adobe or the FBI, I never look at the activities of others except through a lense of their own self-interest. Where I cannot do that, I look at history. My apologies if that outlook seems calloused, but my callouses come through hard work and experience. As for Sklyarov, I think his boss, who has FBI ties, will do more for Sklyarov's release than the EFF.
mrgoat
4. Is Alan Cox still not going to US conventions? (Score:5)
1. While they look like the "nice guys", the person that Adobe wanted punished is still being punished, and Adobe can wash its hands, say "what nice people we are", and walk off almost untouched by all of this.
2. Adobe proved that EFF has no teeth and can be made to back down at the drop of a hat. note to EFF organizing staff: when involved in hostage negotiations, NEVER grant concessions. The Sklyarov incident is a hostage negotiation- he is a foreign national kidnapped at the behest of Adobe by the US Govt., under the guise of enforcing a bad law. Now that Adobe let themselves off the hook and has walked scott-free from the negotiating table, who are you going to target now? Strategically, by "calling off the protest", EFF showed that:
a. They have no real control over the protests. Protestors still showed up, and would have shown up, and by "calling off the protest" the EFF only weakened its position. And Skylarov's.
b. Put themselves in a bad negotiating position- either Adobe could have said- you, EFF, are liars, there are still protestors outside; or they could have said- obviously, you aren't representing the protestors, why should we speak with you.
c. Adobe demonstrated their strength by getting EFF to capitulate, and then Adobe walked away from the entire matter. Efforts to organize effective protests both present and in the future was quashed (or damaged by Adobe), and since EFF has been shown not to be holding the right cards, and Adobe has proven to other corporations just exactly how to stand behind the DMCA while covering their own asses to the public.
3. The EFF's position with the feds may be compromised at this point. By declaring themselves to have control over protests, they have made themselves targets for federal investigation, possibly via the RICO Act (but, IANAL, and I hope to god something on that order of damage doesn't happen to EFF...they have my contribution money). However, EFF will have to watch its back even more so from now on...all it takes is one agent provocateur.
4. I didn't misread about Skylarov being in jail still? What the fuck is everyone celebrating for? Is anyone asking his wife if she needs a place to stay, or any money while her husband is in jail? Just kind of curious...I don't see anyone who is actually affected by this incident winning anything here...except maybe Adobe.
mrgoat
Re:Thank you Adobe... but (Score:4)
The American electorate is a giant slumbering while the pygmies tie it down with strands of gold. *Sigh*
Now the real furball begins (Score:5)
The pressure on Adobe applied by the EFF and the community at large of fair-minded technical people has yeiled results. This is proof positive that what we do and think can have an effect. Let's make sure we follow through and see Dmitry aquited, freed and exhonerated.
Let's also not forget that this represents a step in the right direction towards the repeal of the DMCA. The moments after a victory are the most vulnerable moments of any movment. It's very easy to forget about the long-term goals after acomplishing something important. Let's make sure that this success does not distract us from doing what we know is right.
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In defence of the second ammendment. (Score:2)
You underestimate the effect of a small army of people who are armed with such things are M-16's (or a wide variety of other, better guns), as well as the millions of others who have deadly chemicals under their kitchen counters. I need only to point to WW2, or even Vietnam, where hundreds of "freedom fighters" inflicted quite a bit of damage on occuping troops (either by pouring sugar into gas tanks, setting fire to convoys or by killing the occuping forces directly a la Vietnam.) The vietnamese had _nothing_ like what the average american has (today) the majority the country was either forest or farmland - I'm sure people in the usa could come up with a few "interesting" things. Hell, drive a SUV with a few hundred shotgun shells in the back seat into ___________ at 80 miles an hour. Molitovs are also suprisingly effective against quite a few things.
Oh. Here's a great article I found on yahoo today. 20 people inflicted massive damage on an airport. This is in a country that has been wracked by civil war for decades, not the USA, where someone can run onto the runway by defeating one lock (of a "push 4 buttons in sequence" type, where the code is known by pretty much everybody, and if not, a mirror and a bent piece of wire to lift up the little flappy thing that covers it is also a way to get the code.)
Anyways, the link.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010724/wl/sri
Your point about Yugoslavia is well, not really applicable - the difference is that in Yugoslavia, the USA did not send in ground forces to occupy territory, as they would have to in the USA - they could simply bomb the city from the air - you can't do that while having an occupying army within the city, friendly fire is demoralizing at best, and fighting inside a city against an entrenched enemy who knows the area is very difficult - ask a russian who came back (few here) from Afghanistan in the 70's or Chechnya, or ask a German who came back from Stalingrad.
Besides, it takes only one person with one gun and one bullet to make a very visible political (or otherwise) statement. It will be really interesting the day a sniper opens fire on police
Not good for anyone at the protest, but still interesting, and I'm sure it will make the 6pm news.
As for the previous poster's comment about American's getting a spine, which you laughed at, remember that Tim McVeigh made a crater 30 ft deep outside a certain federal building - something, which required almost no knowledge of chemistry and used only freely available and plentiful materials. The only thing holding quite a few people back from doing this is that the government has not pissed them off enough, I'll say that some "citizen milita-like" meetings are pretty interesting, if mostly huffed up chests and BS.
I'm all for votes and faith in public officials, indeed, it is the only way to do things in a civil manner, but the second ammendment was written during a time where things were not done "politely", and written in the belief that such a time would come again - with the enemy being either foreign or domestic.
Ironically, you mention that the NRA changes things "because their members work the political process through votes and money" - which I belive is the whole point of the original poster's post - that money is at the very root of political change at the current time - and that money is not something that Joe Citizen can spend, but something that corporations can.
The slashdot 2 minute between postings limit: /.'ers since Spring 2001.
Pissing off coffee drinking
Re:Thank you Adobe... but (Score:2)
Maybe they'll give him a free copy of photoshop
A Common Theme (Score:3)
Re:Thank you Adobe... but (Score:2)
"Oh look! Here on my desk I have a bag of money from Sony and Warner Brothers. I also have this letter from Joe Shmoe in my district back in Georgia. Look at all this money."
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This doesn't help. (Score:5)
Adobe loves this (Score:2)
Re:4. Is Alan Cox still not going to US convention (Score:5)
You seem to misunderstand the point of this whole exercise. A human being, through no fault of his own, has been imprisoned against his will. The responsibility of all involved isn't just to make a point about how dumb the DMCA is. Their responsibility is to get this guy back to his home and family as quickly as possible. With Adobe backing down from their complaint, it becomes much more likely that he'll be released relatively quickly.
Sklyarov isn't some pawn the EFF can use to make their point about US Constitutional law. He's a human being, and therefore *any* lawyer trying to speak on his behalf on this case should first and foremost be trying to get him released. If a lawyer pretending to represent Sklyarov's interests allows him to remain in jail in order to advance the constitutional part of the argument, that lawyer should be disbarred for malpractice.
In other words, the EFF made the right choice in backing down from their criticism of Adobe once Adobe rescinded their complaint.
There's a time and a place for everything. The DMCA is already getting its day in court with cases that don't directly affect somebody's physical freedom. Hopefully the criminal provisions of the act will either be struck down by those cases or through a case that doesn't remove a working man as the breadwinner of a family. Your suggestion that the EFF should not have allowed Adobe to back down so easily ignores the human element of this case.
Re:if it actually comes to trial (Score:2)
Re:Thank you Adobe... but (Score:2)
Fact is that all the money in the world won't keep a pol in office unless people vote for him, and there's more to that than paying for advertising. This is why Ross Perot never became President and Bill Gates never will.
Re:Now the real furball begins (Score:2)
In view of the above, I suspect that this case will go forward, and to be honest, I expect the defendant to lose. It's a pretty clear case.
On the good news, however, it might be a good case to challenge the DMCA on appeal. We shall see.
The real enemy. (Score:5)
Adobe's a member of the BSA.
The BSA has an interesting statement on the DMCA here. [bsa.org] This is a response to a Library of Congress rule available here. [loc.gov]
Members of the BSA include Adobe, [adobe.com] Apple Computer, [apple.com] Autodesk, [autodesk.com] Bentley Systems, [bentley.com] CNC Software/Mastercam, [mastercam.com] Compaq, [compaq.com] Corel Corporation, [corel.com] IBM, [ibm.com] Intel, [intel.com] Intuit, [intuit.com] Lotus Development, [lotus.com] Macromedia, [macromedia.com] Microsoft, [microsoft.com] Network Associates, [networkassociates.com] Novell, [novell.com] Sybase, [sybase.com] Symantec, [symantec.com] and Walker Digital; [walkerdigital.com] i.e. most of /.'s favourite hate companies, plus some extras.
These are the guys to line up against. They've been around since the '80s. I suspect that Adobe's lawyers are all BSA stooges. Certainly Adobe's PR department doesn't seem to be toeing the BSA line.
NO, you silly anglish posteur, you pursue the DMCA (Score:2)
-- .sig are belong to us!
All your
Oh yay... (Score:2)
Oh no, like I care. I'm going to have to shop my competition's pdf files out to Canada now...
you know, just had an idea (Score:2)
if Russia and the US went to war over the arrest of Dmitry.
Americans: Damn you Russians, and your lack of copyright enforcement. You guys are hurting our peop...err..corporations.
Russians: Damn you Americans, what the hell else do you expect us to do? There's nothing else here in Russia!
Americans: Yeah, well that's not a good enough excuse.
Russians: Actually, we thought of something we can do.
Americans: Great!
Russians: [Go release nuclear weapon.]
It'd make the world a much better place. Granted, I'd be dead, but so would the majority of the world's lawyers.
had another thought (Score:2)
HOWEVER, when there's actual protests (as was in New York) that often hits the news (granted, not always, as in the Seattle conference) but often it does, and that's probably what convinced Adobe to get off his case.
just my pointless rambling...
Re:He should counter sue! (Score:2)
Re:4. Is Alan Cox still not going to US convention (Score:2)
"Think of every person like Sklyarov out there who might get detained now, and think about how those other corporations will use Adobe's bait-n-switch tactic in the future...
To that I would ask that you keep in mind the moves and shakes made by corps against 'anonymous posters' slandering them on yahoo and some other places. The paralell between the two scenarios is that corps leveraged an interpretation out of the courts to out these people so they could be fired (assaulted) but eventually a judge came up with three (or was it 5) relatively good points of criteria and more are following suit. My point is that despite their dense attitudes towards technology overall, evetually (there's that word again) they catch on. People will get screwed between then and now but afterall, democracy is a slow process.
civil action via hostage-taking? (Score:4)
So let me get this straight--Adobe worked their connections to get a competing company's employee arrested, and now will pretend to back off now that the competitor has taken their product off the market? This is scary, and the EFF should be ashamed letting themselves be used as a figleaf this way. Sklyarov won't be released anytime soon, and this whole episode basically amounted to a hostage-taking.
(Yes, Elcomsoft isn't really a competitor to Adobe, except that one use of their product could reduce ebook sales)
Favorite line: (Score:2)
Huh? It is still on Elcomsoft's web site as a FREE download...
Sig: Tell all your friends NOT to download the Advanced Ebook Processor:
Maybe not SOLD in the USA but it will likely... (Score:2)
But the Elcomsoft [elcomsoft.com] site had it available earlier today as a free (as in beer) download (which I downloaded out of protest). Now it is not.
It is impossible to regulate internet commerce in this way when the comes to information. the cat is out of the bag and the only way to make it unavailable is to make it unavailable to everyone. I don't think that this is likely so it will probably be findable in certain ways in a few days.
Now for some ideas. I like in the US and it is pretty clear what US laws say about these issues. But knowing that Adobe's licensing terms violate consumer rights laws in Russia, and other countries, how likely is it that some people could help get lawsuits going in those countries to force Adobe to stop making their eBooks available to citizens of such countries under such draconian technologies.
Sig: Tell all your friends NOT to download the Advanced Ebook Processor:
Good clarification (Score:2)
Um. Well, yes, I am saying that the damage is done. And I am saying that Adobe pulling out at this point is meaningless on every level, other than as a face-saving compromise.
But, since I never agreed with the protests in the first place, I'm not saying the protests should continue. But, I'm not saying they shouldn't continue, either. That's something the community needs to figure out.
That's like MSFT saying it won't ship free browser (Score:5)
So even if Adobe doesn't officially back the charges, they've already given the feds all the data to prosecute him, they'll almost certainly provide witnesses (oh, sure, "we can't ignore a court order") to help put him in prison, and no matter how good his defense is, he's stuck in the US and not at liberty.
The only good thing is that he can now write a book and guarantee a best seller, so he'll have some money eventually. Unless he's convicted, of course, as then the proceeds will be used for more such actions by the feds.
that's not going to work. here's why. (Score:2)
Their solution was to go to the courts and force the issue of constitutionality. And it worked. This is how the dmca will have to be fought - in the courts.
Re:fight in courts != jailed programmers (Score:2)
Re:Glad to hear. (Score:2)
Callous as it may be, part of me wishes Adobe had not backed down. David Boes needs a chance to redeem himself.
Excellent news - but just the beginning (Score:2)
Well done the EFF, and here's hoping that's the last action brought before it's thrown out following one of the deCSS cases or the Felten action... let this be the beginning of the end for one of the most evil of the world's growing number of Stupid Internet Laws[tm].
--
"I'm not downloaded, I'm just loaded and down"
Nothing has changed, Adobe is still guilty (Score:2)
And they still deserve to be picketed and boycotted. At the VERY least, until he's released. Although, perhaps the protests should diversify... Start picketing outside the offices and homes of those of the DMCA 536 still in office.
Re:Does this mean... (Score:2)
That's the trouble with grand, explosive gestures like that... "
Alan Cox, as the #2 man on the Linux kerne, which represents over 20% of all servers, is one of the MOST important men in the entire industry.
I'd think that if HE started his own group, there'd be bigwigs all over the indstry applying to Alan to join... not vice versa.
Besides, you have to admire someone who has principles and ideals in these degenerate days, and actually LIVES by them... As much as I may sometimes disagree with Cox and Stallman, they are people to admire.
Re:Thank you Adobe... but (Score:4)
"Oh look! Here on my desk I have a bag of money from Sony and Warner Brothers. I also have this letter from Joe Shmoe in my district back in Georgia. Look at all this money."
Like it or not, this is the reason why there is a 2nd Amendment...
Sooner or later, if the government continues to listen more to the corporate minority, rather than the working majority, SOMETHING unpleasant is going to happen. That is, if hte American People ever grow a spine.
We're nowhere near that point yet, but unjsut, UNCONSTITUTIONAL laws like the DMCA are a step towards absolute corporate government.
If we continue on the path the late `90's started, I shudder to think what kind of America my children might inherit... Sad. I'm of Gen X, the FIRST generation to leave the country less free than when we were born.
Re:civil action via hostage-taking? (Score:5)
This is hostage taking. The DMCA is an immoral, unethical, unjust law, that IS no law at all accoring to my Roman Catholic upbringing. And Adobe became Pilate by them being the DIRECT cause of Dimitry's unjust incarceration. They are FAR from exonerated by making a symbolic statement... The charges still stand, and he's still being held against his will.
"(Yes, Elcomsoft isn't really a competitor to Adobe, except that one use of their product could reduce ebook sales)"
That's my major moral objection to the DMCA... It's basically a law that makes threatening corporate profts a FELONY... It's fortunate there was no DMCA in the time of the "Emperor Has No Clothes" fable, else the shyster "tailor" who made the Emperor's splendid invisible clothes would sue the child for a DMCA violation.
Re:Thank you Adobe... but (Score:2)
Re:This doesn't help. (Score:2)
You're exactly right.
I think, however, that some members of Congress rely on the courts to save us from the bad laws they pass. They can get away with passing a law they know to be unconstitutional because they feel sure it will be struck down. This lets them score political points with voters, and the courts take the blame when they set things right by striking down the bad law.
It almost makes me wonder if there could be a way to sue legislators for passing clearly unconstitutional laws. Maybe go after them for violating their oaths of office, since they swear to uphold the Constitution, not take pot shots at it. OK, this may be taking things a bit far, and God knows we don't need any more lawsuits than we have right now, but it's an interesting concept.
Re:This doesn't help. (Score:3)
Image usually doesn't influence the Supreme Court that much. Remember when Jerry Falwell sued Larry Flynt over an allegedly defamitory cartoon in Hustler magazine? Falwell had prevailed in an appeals court before the Supreme Court took the case. The Court reversed the decision and sided with Flynt on First Amendment grounds, and Chief Justice Rehnquist, a conservative by all accounts, wrote the opinion. So if Larry Flynt, who is definitely not the most popular guy in the country, can win, I think 2600 has a shot. I think the Court likes these kinds of cases because they know it's all too easy for an unpopular individual or organization to be prosecuted. Yes, they screw things up sometimes, but they get it right a remarkable amount of times, certainly more often than the political prostitutes we have in Congress.
Re:That's like MSFT saying it won't ship free brow (Score:4)
Agreed. What have Adobe (and interested others) learned from this?
That last point is the one that sticks in my throat the most. Adobe have won this one, in every possible way.
What I want to know is exactly who in Adobe pressed for this prosecution, and exactly what Adobe has done to them, considering that they now say that it was a mistake.
A man is in jail, Adobe says that's wrong. OK, show us the accountability.
Re:4. Is Alan Cox still not going to US convention (Score:2)
I can't "me too" this one enough. The EFF bungled this so badly I'm debating the value of contributing -- I think the ACLU makes far better use of their funds.
Re:Not Good Enough! (Score:2)
There is no more to get from Adobe. Next in line is the prosecutors, move along.
He should counter sue! (Score:4)
If nothing else, they will compromise outside of court to avoid the bad PR.
--
Two witches watched two watches.
But they can still threaten us with the DMCA (Score:2)
Re:Great. I'm sure this will be covered everywhere (Score:2)
I say screw the Media, we need to make this fight OURS. As of last Friday, my company's servers no longer accept PDF files for internal use (i.e. our customers must send RTF files). Although we are a small company, we stopped using Adobe and supporting their proprietary formats (we've also purchased copies of PSP for the developers on windows systems). This isn't alot, but it's our effort, it's what WE are doing for the cause. As more companies (with sys admins that give a damn about HUMAN RIGHTS) start to realize that they have a voice, they will start to use that voice, and when a few hundred shops start screaming and rejecting formats, Big Companies start to listen. Remember people, all of those products (like Photoshop and Illustrator, and even Acrobat) were made with the purpose of profitting by us. They are aimed at a specific consumer market, the multimedia/web/graphics market! Lets use our "market share" and influence our companies to save money (gimp, paint shop pro), support more open companies, and maybe even score brownie points with OUR customers who care about human rights and corporate responsibility.
It Did Not Say He Was Released (Score:2)
And the odds of this ending up being a test case for the DMCA would be pretty slim, since a defense would probably (IANAL) defend him based on 'he did the deed in Russia, not the USA' rather than going after the constitutionality of the DMCA.
No matter how you slice it, Adobe gave the shaft to a foreign citizen traveling in the US to give information to us, the American people, and now Adobe is trying to pretend that they did nothing wrong. It is time for them to grow up and realize that this is an action that they cannot take back.
This man is going to spend a while cooling his heels behind bars, time that he will never get back. It is Adobe's fault. Make them suffer. Spread the word as far and wide as you can outside the geek/hacker community about Adobe's actions and the replacements for Adobe software already out there. Get them where it counts, in the pocketbook.
if it actually comes to trial (Score:4)
"Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?"
"V qb."
--
Slashdot: When News Breaks, We Give You The Pieces
Re:The important thing: (Score:2)
A huge, huge portion of Adobe's revs comes from licensing their
software on the Macintosh platform for Desktop Publishing, web design
and that sort of thing.
Way to nail ADBE is: hold your nose and port over that neato
killustrator suite to Darwin... lemme tell ya, people will buy Macs and,
since it's more expensive than the PC, save the bucks by not shelling
out for Adobe Design site licenses, etc.
Also, make up fonts and give them away.
Just a thought.