More Trouble With AOL And GAIM 206
Well, AOL is at it again. In 1998, I wrote a program called GAIM which provided Linux users with a way to participate in AOL's Instant Messenger (tm) service. GAIM is one of the best examples of Open Source software in action, because even though I have not personally coded on it in years, momentum as continued through multiple maintainers to make it one of the best instant messaging programs available. From its humble beginnings as a two-week long project I started to teach myself GTK programming, to today where it is included in virtually ever Linux distribution, FreeBSD, and others, it has shown how even highly non-technical software can benefit from the Open Source model. We even receive numerous requests to port it to windows, because people like it more than the native AIM client in windows.
In July of 1999, I received a letter from AOL's Legal Representation requesting that we remove their AOL trademark and logo from our web site and product name, which we promptly did. Now, in 2001, the same firm has sent us notice requiring that we change the name of the product (that they clearly have known for almost 2 years) because they believe GAIM's name to be confusingly similar to the AIM trademark that they applied for in 2000, almost two years after gaim was released. We have until June 29, 2001 to prepare a response to their charges. Similar notices have been sent to the owners of the "AIMY," "KAIM," "wmGAIM," "TAIM," "phpaim," "blaim," "libfaim," "jaim," "eaim," and "maim" projects.
We have consulted with an attorney who believes we stand on a strong foot for the following reasons:
- "gaim" and others are not confusingly similar to "aim."
- Since AOL has been aware of our name for over two years and has not expressed any concern at the use of "aim" in the name of the product even while expressing concern over their AOL trademark and logo, they may have implicitly given us license to use it.
- AOL's trademark was filed for nearly two years after GAIM was first released. Unlike patents, it is sometimes permissible, however, to pursue a trademark since "first commercial use."
We are nearly out of options at this point, however, for the gaim project. We either will have to have some legal defense for gaim and the other projects, or will be obliged to change names.
If anyone out there is a lawyer, and is willing to take on this project to support these projects, please contact us by sending e-mail to gaimdefense@marko.net. We have a lawyer who is willing to do the requisit trademark research and send a letter for $500, so if you feel strongly enough that you are willing to contribute money to the project, please contact us and let us know that too.
Unfortunately, in the legal world, it's not just sufficient to be right, you have to have the finances, determination and other resources to fight the battle. There is always a balance tha requires picking and choosing the battles so important that you are willing fight, and those that you choose do not wish to spend resources defending. The question is, do the 40,000+ gaim users out there believe strongly enough that the defense of the "gaim" name is an important battle to fight.
you forgot one: (Score:1)
Re:It DOES seem confusingly similar (Score:2)
If I had to guess, I would say it (GAIM) stands for "GNU AOL Instant Messenger
No, no, you've got it all wrong. The G in GAIM stands for GTK.
Um, but then the G in GTK stands for Gimp...
And then the G in Gimp stands for GNU... which stands for GNU, which stands for GNU, which stands for GNU, which stands for GNU
Segmentation fault.
Re:Well, you know, AOL, there is an easy way (Score:2)
Down that path lies madness. On the other hand, the road to hell is paved with melting snowballs.
Re:TM laws side with AOL (Score:1)
Read my post again. Time does not matter here. It doesn't influence anything. Many cases out there have sided with the trademark holder despite the fact that they came to the table late.
Now I'm perhaps not as up on my Trademark law as you are (very likely, in fact) but I am certain that if a trademark is not savagely defended from the time it is registered then the trademark owner loses all pull. I'm not talking about Mr. A having something called Foo before Mr. B trademarks Foo<tm>, I'm talking about Mr B. knowing about Mr. A's Foo but not sending his lawyers out as soon as he became aware of Mr. A's use of Foo.
Unless I'm now getting trademarks and patents mixed up. I know that copyrights do not need to be savagely defended but either trademarks and/or patents do. If they aren't defended whenever "challenged" then the trademark and/or patent holder loses all power to legally wrangle use of the trademark or copyright.
Not that I really know trademark law, but... (Score:2)
On the other hand, if you were using the name 2 years ago without permission and they didn't bully you, you should be able to win just by saying that they didn't bully you two years ago; they failed for two years to defend their trademark (nevermind that they didn't have it at the time), so they lose.
On the first hand again, they've done their job if you get a ruling that says the names are different, because they will not have failed to defend their trademark. I suspect that you would be able to reach a good settlement if told them you were willing to acknowledge their trademark of "AIM" (which seems to be currently unacknowledged on the sourceforge site), and thought that "gaim" was sufficiently different to not constitute an example of someone using their trademark for two years without them complaining.
If you're willing to argue that what you've done does not infringe their trademark (as opposed to arguing that they've failed to defend it), it's in their best interests to let you win, since they don't have a case, and they'd lose their trademark the other way. Of course, they can't very well send you a letter insisting that "AIM" and "gaim" are not confusingly similar, since that wouldn't get into the official record, even if that's the outcome they really want.
Re:GAIM, etc. (Score:1)
Re:the acutal letter (Score:1)
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a funny comment: 1 karma
an insightful comment: 1 karma
a good old-fashioned flame: priceless
jaim developer (Score:5)
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a good old-fashioned flame: priceless
the acutal letter (Score:5)
VIA E-MAIL
Joshua Harding
vaxgeek
RE: Notice of Infringement
Dear Mr. Harding:
We represent America Online, Inc. (AOL), with respect to its intellectual property matters. Our client is the owner of federal Registration Nos. 2,423,368 and 2,423,367 for its mark AIM (hereinafter, the AIM Mark) and operates the most widely-used interactive online service in the world. Our client has made extensive use of its AIM Mark in interstate and international commerce in connection with the advertising, promotion, and sale of its Internet and computer-related goods and services. Due to our clients widespread use, advertising, and extensive marketing, its AIM Mark has become very famous and many consumers recognize the mark as a distinctive symbol of our clients goodwill. Our client also uses the mark AIM.COM in connection with providing information via computer networks. As a result, consumers associate the mark AIM, when used in a software name or internet related service, with our clients high quality products and services. It has come to our attention that you are distributing an online communication software product using the AIM Mark at several web sites. Our client is concerned that your unauthorized use of its famous AIM Mark in this manner is likely to confuse consumers and, in addition, dilutes the distinctive qualities of the AIM Mark. We assume you similarly do not wish to mislead consumers and we request that you discontinue use of any name(s) that incorporate our client's marks, or marks confusingly similar to them. Additionally, the proprietary software used to operate the AIM service is owned solely by AOL and unauthorized distribution of our client's software, or derivatives thereof, is strictly prohibited. Our client would like to resolve this matter amicably and has asked that we contact you to confirm that you will cease using any names or marks that infringe upon the AIM Mark. We also ask that you contact us to discuss the possible copyright issues set forth above. We hope you appreciate AOL's interest in protecting its valuable intellectual property and we ask that you respond to this letter by June 29, 2001. We look forward to hearing from you and hope to resolve this matter promptly.
James R. Davis, II
202/857-6169
davisr@arentfox.com
Arent Fox Kintner Plotkin & Kahn, PLLC
1050 Connecticut Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20036-5339
Phone 202/857-6000
Fax 202/857-6395
www.arentfox.com
(ps. i submitted this last week. little (rejected) after it, thanks
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a good old-fashioned flame: priceless
Important: paypal for donations (Score:3)
Which Lawyer (Score:4)
A name idea (Score:1)
mame (Score:1)
I would like to register the word SHIT (Score:1)
But isnt AOL right? (Score:1)
This does not sound unreasonable, requesting that you not use thier name. (IMHO)
Mozilla 0.9.2 out [mozilla.org]
If you change the name. (Score:1)
Things like as open source developers, writing code for the benefit of everyone not just the people with money... and
This change of name in no way accepts AOL's right to the type of software that GAIM represents and AOL's acceptance of the change of GAIM's name to something otherwise shows AOL's acceptance that the software called GAIM in no way infringes on AOL's software or intellectual property.
I'm no lawyer, but I wouldn't put it past AOL to take the acceptance by all developers of similarly named software to change the name of their software as acceptance that they are in direct competition.
Heh and remember...Be careful out there!
Re:How about LAIM? (Score:1)
Just rename it... (Score:2)
--
Knowledge is, in every country, the surest basis of public happiness.
Re:Why can't we all just get along? ;) (Score:1)
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Re:jaim developer (Score:1)
you know
GNG Not Gaim
:)
Re:huh? (Score:1)
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Change the name (Score:2)
You are in the same market as AOL, with a similar product to what AOL produces. They are the market leader, and you took their product name and added a single letter to it. I simply cannot imagine a more straightforward example of why trademarks exist.
Consumer confusion is practically guaranteed between "gaim" and "aim" if they both do the same thing.
And yes, even if they registered the trademark later, they were using the mark in interstate trade (and denoting it as a trademark) from the beginning, so the date of the registration is at MOST an inconvenience for AOL's attorneys -- they still own the mark.
It would be one thing if you called it "GIM", because "Instant Messenger" could at least be argued to be a generic term. But to call it anything with "AIM" was just begging for AOL to come knocking...
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Re:huh? (Score:2)
Yes, because they are both Broadcasting Companies so it is pretty easy to defend.
GAIM is not a "G" AOL Instant Messenger. The AOL part kinda infringes. If they called themselves GIM, it would be a totally different story.
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Re:huh? (Score:2)
And its still just as arguable. I'm not saying to roll over for any trademark -- Instant Messaging could be reasonably argued to simply be a description of what the product does.
But to incorporate the "A" of AIM, when it clearly stands for AOL Instant Messnger, is just asking to be sued for infringement, and there's no hope of winning THAT argument in front of a judge.
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Re:huh? (Score:2)
The trademark WAS in force -- it was publically marked with a (TM), which is adequate notice for a trademark.
The filing of paperwork to get the (R) doesn't have to precede the use of the mark. in fact, when you file the paperwork for a trademark registration, the first thing they want to know is "has this mark been used in interstate trade? Please provide copies of such examples."
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Commercialism Crap. (Score:1)
You are in the same market as AOL, with a similar product to what AOL produces. They are the market leader, and you took their product name and added a single letter to it. I simply cannot imagine a more straightforward example of why trademarks exist.
Wrong. They're not in a "market". They're not trying to compete with AOL. They're not using the name to build on AOL's "goodwill" so they can make money that should be rightfully AOL's
This world depresses me more every day. Here's someone with a completely altruistic motive, making good software that anyone who wants to can download and use, however they want, and yet we have people on this site actually defending a multibillion dollar company who is suing the poor guy cause the name of his program has the same three letters in it.
Do you actually beleive that GAIM is hurting AOL? Do you actually think that this program is causing AOL financial damages? Last I checked their stock was doing just fine thanks.
Hope it makes you feel better to support a megacorp walking all over someone who has to take donations over the Internet just to come up with enough money to pay a lawyer to send a letter. And God fobid we actually look at whether or not AOL is morally right here or not, "intellectual property" laws be dammed.
-WintermuteKaim too (Score:2)
Kaim (Score:3)
The trademarks were not given approval until 2001-01-23.
Kaim started more then a year before that and Gaim started in 1998.
If a company abandons a trademark for 3 years it is considered lost.
In 1999 AOL sent us a legal letter asking us to remove the aol images and name from our applications, they did not in any way refer to the aim name as one of the things we had to remove. By doing this they showed that they did not have a vested interest in the name which can *void*there trademark application which states that they first started using it back in 97 when it wasn't until recently that they cared about it. Also by not telling us to remove the name then, they were in essence giving us the right to use the name.
Gaim and Kaim can be argued are different enough from the word aim to be ok.
The reason that they sent us the notice of infringement was that they fear that kaim and gaim would "dilute" the aim name, when in fact both of our applications are superior to the official AOL linux client. In that regard you can argue that their clients were diluting the trademark and we would boosting it!
But even with all these things going for us this is a pure case of the big bad company beating up on the loyal fans. Here we had given our sweat and tears making an application to connect with and in the end promoting them. They have made it harder and harder to do this and for me this is the last straw.
As of the next release of Kaim it will have a new name. You can submit name ideas to kaim-developer@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto] Submit a funny name and a real name. :) For those of you who have
been using Kaim we thank you. Kaims current status is very stable.
Because of that I will be fixing up the last few bugs and releasing the
next version as 1.0 To bad it can't be called Kaim.
The official kde aol client kit is being revamped as a jabber client. The Kaim development team will most likely move over and join the kit team. Kaim has done what Iset out to do. It is a stable aim client with a clean interface. But that was then this is now. Next comes the Jabber client. If you are trying to decide what im server you should go to Iwould recommend jabber. Did you know you can run your own jabber server? Heck jabber is so much better then aim it isn't funny. This probably isn't the end of aol's attack so get out now. Be part of the resistance! Get yourself and others away from aim. Here are two links to jabber sites.
http://www.jabber.org/ [jabber.org]
http://gabber.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
Oh and one last thing... Hehe I don't mean to start something, but in a way (not really, but you get what I mean) it is now kinda illegal to have kaim and gaim on your computers. So stick it to the man and where is your mirror?
If you wish to contact me you can do so at icefox@mediaone.net [mailto]
Name Change Suggestion (Score:2)
Re:What AOL SHOULD do (Score:1)
Re:jaim developer (Score:2)
Note that I don't think fighting this one is the best strategy, for the reasons you mention above. Let AOL get the bad publicity, and move on to more development, and more important fights.
Re:jaim developer (Score:1)
Personally, I think that GAIM, since they seem to have a solid footing legally, should only change the name if AOL agrees to pay them for it.
AOL is using its legal muscle to do this, but I believe that they are counting on the fact that most project leaders will take it lying down. The "Implicit License" argument is actually a very strong legal position in this case, and I am certain that they know that.
What AOL really wants is to preserve their brand. They want people to associate the name AIM with their own product, not with some nebulous service out there that can chat with Yahoo and Jabber and MSN as well as AOL.
So, they should be willing to make a strategic financial move instead of a bullying legal one, especially since they can't win this particular case.
I say go ahead and change the name, but first offer to do it as part of a contract -- you relinquish their brand name and they pay you to do it.
You certainly lose nothing by trying that approach first, and you could potentially gain quite a bit.
Re:It DOES seem confusingly similar (Score:1)
Maybe it's time for an Open Source Instant Messaging protocol, client, and server combo to avoid the whole mess.
You mean like the Jabber/Gaim/jabber.org combination?
http://jabber.org [jabber.org]
Re:aim is generic -- not (Score:1)
None of which are acronyms. They're abbreviations. An acronym is a word formed from the initial letters of other words. eg RADAR.
skribe
Re:My wish... (Score:1)
Second, those of us who are in this group don't need (or want) an ISP who does all of the handholding that you are talking about. We want the cheapest/fastest connection to the 'net that we can find. That's all. Just give me a pipe and I'll do the rest. I'll pick and choose the apps that I want to run to utilize the pipe. And if it doesn't exist, I'll create it and you can use it too!
Putting 2+2 lawyers together (Score:1)
Tho I do reserve the copyright on said name.
Re:It DOES seem confusingly similar (Score:1)
Well son of a bitch. I'm pretty sure AOL would be glad to have their name on gaim. Considering it's everything and more that their client would be if they didn't have to cater to the lowest common denominator.
The only reason they don't heist features from gaim is because of the confusion it would cause amongst their AIM users.
_____
Fight Book Burning [leftorium.net]
______
everyone was born right-handed, only the greatest overcome it.
New name suggestion (Score:1)
If AOL bitches about *AIM* then just change the name to AlM (lowercase L in the middle). All of their searches will fail to uncover the product and their lawyers will just pass you by!
</humor>
Re:the acutal letter (Score:1)
Nice to know I'm not the only one that sends /. stories and get them (rejected) only to see the story appear in a week, giving credit to someone else...
And I thought I was alone out there.
Sigh...
Then again, maybe I'm auto-rejected for whining too much :)
How about LAIM? (Score:3)
Re:Well, you know, AOL, there is an easy way (Score:1)
Mod Up! (Score:1)
Where the extra cash should go (Score:1)
change it to (Score:1)
-Lx?
non-sequitur (Score:2)
But this is not a distinction with a difference. There are myriad acronyms, as you are using the term, that are also strong trademarks. NASDAQ is one, NASCAR is another. Whether or not you consider IBM, NBC, ABC or GE to be acronyms, the point is the same.
Give it up. AIM isn't generic. Not close.
OK, if you say so. (Score:2)
Of course, this all remains non-sequitur to the issue of whether or not AIM is generic or unprotectible because it is an acronym. While it might raise interesting questions of mere descriptiveness for use with a rifle scope, tt is both non-generic and protectible, of course, for instant messaging.
Not the best place to fight . . . (Score:3)
With all due respect to counsel for the defendants, likelihood of confusion appears to be a slam-dunk. The two names have substantially the same appearance, substantially the same sound and suggest essentially the same thing. The prepending of a "G" almost certainly does not change the sense in which the marks are tangibly similar. The two products do essentially the same thing, almost feature for feature.
Of course, likelihood of confusion is an intensely fact-based inquiry, based on many factors, some of which do not clearly militate for a plaintiff's verdict, so an advocate may be able to muddy things up.
I think the strongest argument for the defense is an acquiescence by AOL, permitting the use of GAIM for so long without taking action. Still, that's a tough row to hoe as well.
One thing to seriously consider -- why do we CARE what it is called? Find some pithy name and refer to it as the product that no longer sounds like and is unaffiliated with "AIM," and be done with it.
Name doesn't matter. Regardless of the formal names, for me, "G"-AIM was AIM for Gnome, as "J"-AIM was AIM in Java. I suspect many others took that association away with them as well. Whether or not AOL would win, I think this makes a very attractive case for a jury.
In short, this isn't a front worth fighting. Why let the other guys fight the good fight where they can win? Why not find a middle ground, get AOL to behave by saving them some legal fees and get some useful concessions on the other side.
Sun Tzu suggests fighting where the enemy is weakest. AOL seems to have this one right. Do we?
aim is generic -- not (Score:3)
IANAL but I thought that you could not trademark an acronym.
Of course you can trademark an acronym, sure as you can say International Business Machines, National Broadcasting Corporation, and General Electric.
AIM can stand for so many things, that their argument holds no water. (even when ignoring that the GAIM has been using the same name for two years) Off the top of my head, the alliance between Apple, IBM and Motorola was called the AIM alliance well before AOL Instant Messenger came out.
Right you are! Consider ABC, when used for a television network, a chain of pizzerias or for a chain of liquor stores. The IDENTICAL mark can be used for non-competing goods, and be very strong, even famous (not the legal term of art here) in their respective arenas.
This is the essence of likelihood of confusion. It is not just the designation, but the manner and purposes for which it is used that determines whether there is an infringement.
Of course, a wildly diluted acronym can be weakened by broad, shared use. And some acronyms might well become one and the same with their particular meaning. (A.I. for artificial intelligence, perhaps; maybe even IM for instant messaging.)
Apple is also a common word (Score:3)
And one that would be generic for pie or flavors of fruit roll-ups. However, for computers, or for records, Apple is arbitrary and as strong as Xerox.
If I remember from high school, this alone limits the scope of the protection granted by the trademark.
Only if it describes the underlying goods and services. Even then, the mark is registrable and protectable if it has attained "acquired distinctiveness." Examples of acquired distinctiveness are "International Business Machines" and "Steak & Ale"
Re:It DOES seem confusingly similar (Score:1)
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Paypal (Score:2)
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Of course it's confusing. (Score:2)
GAIM was started out as an instant messaging client for Linux that allowed access to AIM. In other words, the whole intent of the name is to link it to AIM. Now, it may have changed it's goal to include other IM protocols, but that doesn't change the infringement. GAIM is still linked to AIM. It is also still easy to confuse the two. When I see GAIM, and I know we're talking about IM, I think "GNU AOL Instant Messanger". I see AOL. I am likely to be inclined (if I wasn't reading this) to believe that GAIM was from AOL.
Also, note that the trademark doesn't have to be registered to be enforceable either. Now AIM is a descriptive mark (IMO), so it is really only protected if the pulic associates AIM with AOL. I think that this relation is obvious (AIM=AOL IM).
Clue.com doesn't have that confusion because it operates in an entirely different market. Different market, no confusion.
They are free to attempt to defend themselves against the suit, but I feel it is pretty clear that AOL is correct.
Jason PollockMore info from GAIM 0.8.0 (Score:2)
From the GAIM 0.8.0 README file, first line... (the net is a wonderfull thing):
Sounds like the confusion is deliberate to me.
Jason PollockRe: (Score:1)
Re:Which Lawyer (Score:2)
Creativity? (Score:1)
Re:AOL does not have to win (Score:1)
Re:AOL does not have to win (Score:1)
Re:AOL does not have to win (Score:2)
Hmm.. Are you speaking from experience or what? Really, if I just tell AOL to fuck off and they drag me into court and I do not willingly fork any of my money over to lawyers, what am I going to get hit by? How much is it going to cost me to be passive resistant? It would appear to me that it is *I* who are making *them* spend money. People talk about "dragging out" a court case until one of the parties goes broke. How exactly do you do this? There's so much rumor about court cases, just how many of you people have ever been to court?
Arent Fox (Score:1)
If Arent Fox was hired by the MPAA, they would start threatening people who mentioned DeCSS.
aim is generic (Score:4)
Here is the list from the Acronym Finder [acronymfinder.com]:
AOL Instant Messenger , Abductory Inductive Mechanism , Abrams Integrated Management , Abridged Index Medicus , Accunet Information Manager (AT&T) , Accuracy In Media , Acquisition Information Management , Action Item Master , Active Inert Missile , Ada Interactive Monitor , Adaptive Internetwork Management (Ungerman Bass) , Administrators In Medicine , Advanced Idea Mechanics , Advanced Industrial Management , Advanced Informatics in Medicine , Advanced Information Management , Advanced Integrated Multiplex , Advanced Integration Module (Cisco) , Advanced Inventory Management (Telco Research) , Advanced Isolation Methods , Advanced ISR Management , "Adventures In Ministry, Inc. ", Aeronautical Information Manual , "Aether Intelligent Messaging (Aether Systems, Inc.) ", Africa Inland Mission , African Index Medicus , AFSATCOM IEMATS Microprocessor , Aid to Injured Motorcyclists (legal organization) , Air Inflation Module , Air Intercept Missile , Airborne Intercept Missile , Airlift Import Manager , Airman Information Manual , Alarm Indication Message (Lucent) , Alarm Interface Module (Telabs) , Alternate Input Method (OS/2) , Alternative Investment Market , Ambulatory Information Management Association , American Indian Movement , American Institute of Management , Amplitude Inter-Modulation distortion , Analog Input Module , Antenna Interface Module , "Apple, IBM and Motorola ", Application and Interface Module (Com21 cable modem) , Application Interpreted Model , Armored-Infantry-Mechanized , Army Information Management , Artificial Intelligence in Medicine (journal) , Artificial Intelligence Markets , ASAS Interface Module , Asian Institute of Management (Manila) , Associate In Management , Associate In Ministry , Association for Information Management , Association for Integrative Medicine , Association for Interactive Media , Association française pour les applications de l'Informatique à la Médecine , ATC Initiatives & Measures , ATM Internet Mode , ATM Inverse Multiplexer (ATMF) , Auroral Ionospheric Mapper , Australian Institute of Management , Authoring Instructional Material , Authorizing Instructional Media , Automated Information Management , Automated In-line Mailer , Automated Inserting Machine , Automatic Identification Manufacturers , Automatic Insert Machine , and Automatic Interrupting Motor-operated
Re:Idea (Score:1)
But wouldn't you really rather have a piece of software named "FAOL" (pronounced "foul") and standing for... well, you figger it out.
Re:Why can't we all just get along? ;) (Score:1)
Call it ReadyFire (Score:1)
ReadyFire
That way, they can't bitch that you included their three precious letters...
(and if you put those letters in the middle, it reminds us of the last three words these weasily lawyers who abuse IP law should ever hear J/K ... )
.. (Score:1)
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microsoft, it's what's for dinner
bq--3b7y4vyll6xi5x2rnrj7q.com
Re:aim is generic (Score:1)
Cantcha just (Score:2)
name suggestions (Score:2)
kuagmire (Kick Uselss AOL's Glutumus Maximus In the Rear End)
kimchi (KDE Instant Messaging Client for Hire on the Internet)
[TMB]
Re:AOL does not have to win (Score:2)
You're going to lose. The court is going to force you to change the damn name.
Have I ever been to court? Only the court of common sense.
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Unbelievable (Score:2)
GAIM is not similar to AIM? Get a fucking clue people.
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Re:How about LAIM? (Score:2)
I suppose, if you spelled it LAME, there would definately be no way AOL could have any real gripes about it, eh?
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Re:It DOES seem confusingly similar (Score:3)
Amen. How about GNA ("Gna's Not AIM")?
But seriously. How about gM, for "gnu messenger?" I don't think General Motors could sue, because your client is probably not easy to confuse with a car :)
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AOL does not have to win (Score:3)
Would they win in court? Hard to tell this is a very disputed area of law, and the courts are not helping. (IANAL) They can make TM claims, and may win, so they have little to lose. If nothing he may be able to claim GAIM as copyrighted material. Public domain however, does put that on short leash, at least in the case of violations.
If you have the money, desire, or can get the ACLU, FSF, etc. to hear your case you may wish to fight as long as they will. AOL, like Microsoft, GM, etc., has deep pockets and a long outlook on things. This could be tied up for years. You can have fun with it or call it a day and give it a different name.
While many people tell you: "fight fight fight" it is easy to say when you are not getting a second mortgage to ensure the $100k you forked out in legal fees to date are not lost. If however, you cannot get free help or have just as deep a pocket...sometimes be right doesn't help.
Life is not fair, but consider the alternative.
AIM = MIA (Score:2)
Good point (Score:2)
Damn good point. Jabber would be the logical choice, with transports available to make migration less painful.
"That old saw about the early bird just goes to show that the worm should have stayed in bed."
You're right and you're wrong... (Score:3)
While I applaud your good sense in this quote, I still have to do so reservedly. What AOL is doing here is harrassment, and changing the name will merely give them a green light to continue harrassment as an effective tactic.
If a good legal team that can defend them at minimal cost to the project cannot be found, then your advice is probably the best. On the other hand, what they are doing now, seeking to find such a defense team if at all possible, is definately called for as well. No need for them to cave immediately. Far better to put out the word as far and as fast as possible as to what is happening, and solicit aid. There are many possible ways it could be forthcoming. If it is not, they can still change their name next week...
"That old saw about the early bird just goes to show that the worm should have stayed in bed."
Re:Just rename it... (Score:2)
I wasn't going to do anything... (Score:2)
Until I read this Salon article [salon.com] posted today about Internet centralization (http://salon.com/tech/feature/2001/06/26/locking_ up_the_web/index.html for those who are sick of goatse.cx), and realized that I should do whatever I can to help the "little guy".
We need to support people running independent projects and work-alikes so that the entire breed does not die out before the net restabilizes. Unfortunately I posted this too late for anyone to mod it up so people can read it... blargh.
Oh yeah... (Score:2)
Re:What AOL SHOULD do (Score:2)
What makes it too close to being the same? (Score:2)
If it comes down to it (and I hope it doesn't) why not just name it Aim? It's an english word, there should* be no way for AOL to stop you from using an english word!! Take AIM at AOL might not be a bad name idea either.
* - yes I know this is not the case, the corperations always win. Too bad our society is in such a state of affairs that you can't even speak plain english without trademark violation.
AOL targets Target stores (Score:2)
We represent America Online, Inc. ("AOL"), with respect to its intellectual property matters. Our client is the owner of federal Registration Nos. 2,423,368 and 2,423,367 for its mark AIM (hereinafter, the "AIM Mark") and operates the most widely-used interactive online service in the world. Our client has made extensive use of its AIM Mark in interstate and international commerce.
Your use of the name "Target" and the giant red and white target logo may cause considerable confusion with the AIM Mark, as a target is something at which one takes aim. In order to avoid such confusion and to avoid infringing the AIM Mark, you must immediately cease and desist from using such a confusing name and logo or immediately turn over all assets to AOL. If you don't, AOL will buy you just like Time-Warner.
SO what????? (Score:2)
It is my understanding that under trademark dilution and violation, that only applies to commercial applications and use. Since GAIM, LAIM, PAIM, etc. is not commercial, then the trademark laws could not apply.
Re:huh? (Score:4)
Analogies suck.
Public Relations email (Score:2)
While I'm waiting for the right email address, I thought I'd let the /. community tear apppart/improve my draft email to AOL-Time-Warner. I think it's important to come across as a reasonable person who (READER ALERT!: put down the hot coffee/soda now) generally likes AOL-Time-Warner, but is concerned about recent actions.
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Draft of message to be subitted via AOL feedback [aol.com] and later sent to AOL-Time-Warner's public relations department:
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While I generally have a good opinion of America Online, I would like to express some concerns regarding AOL's instant messaging system.
Market pressures appear to have created a need for an alternative to the current AIM interface to the AIM service. To many people, the AOL AIM client leaves much to be desired. The Linux AOL AIM client, in particular, is widely regarded as innadequate when compared to the alternatives (most noably the GAIM client).
To many people, myself included, it appears that AOL has not attepted to repond to the market demands represented by independent instant messanging clients. It appears that instead, AOL has chosen to use its massive legal resources to intimidate the volunteers producing the alternative clients.
Many users of alternative instant messanging clients do not wish to harm AOL's AIM advertising revenue stream. However, they have a percieved need for features not found on the AOL AIM client.
Many people, particularly in the rapidly growing open source / Linux community, would like to see AOL respond to the market pressures that cause people to use alternative AIM clients. Of particular appeal to GAIM users is an open framework that encourages free extension of the client. The GAIM distribution includes well defined APIs and support files to write "plug ins" in both the Perl and C programming languages. The AOL AIM client does not appear to provide any framework for free extension.
In addition, many people in the open source community would like to see AOL publish the source code ot the AIM client under a free liscence (as defined by the Free Software Foundation). Perhapse AOL feels that it needs to hide the source code for its AIM client in order to preserve the AIM advertising revenue stream. However, the present situation has demonstrated that the source code for a superior instant messanging client is available for others to build on. I personally believe that AOL would see a rapid increase in the functionality of the AIM client on all platforms if the source code for the AIM client was published under a free liscence.
Karl
I'm a slacker? You're the one who waited until now to just sit arround.
What AOL SHOULD do (Score:4)
I know it may not be the perfect solution, but AOL could register "GAIM", give money to the GAIM developer(s) (maybe even hire them). I know that was the basis of their April Fool's joke (very funny - read it at http://gaim.sourceforge.net [sourceforge.net]. If AOL needed to keep something private they could make a proprietary module to load into GAIM (and other open source products that give AOL functionality). The module could have a clause that it could only be used in conjunction with open source products so that MSN couldn't use it.
Yeah, I know, not perfect, but at least then AOL would be sponsoring an excellent Linux client that is far superior to the Java crap they promote.
I don't use AIM (Score:2)
Judo Tactics (Score:2)
If you don't have anything nice to say, say it often.
Another Example (Score:2)
In a similar, but not related story [theregister.co.uk], The company that owns the trade mark for Barney the dinosaur has gone after a satire/parody site. Another example of a big bucks company going after a smaller concern.
But the reply is a hoot:
""It has come to the attention of Cybercheeze that you are operating an illegal scam called 'Strong Arm' under the guise of 'Intellectual Property'. We have reviewed your letter and found that it not only is about as intellectual as the purple quivering mass of gyrating goo you call Barney, but that it also is demeaning to everyone that visits our website and reads this worthless attempt and scare tactic."
spunky attitude. I like it. Gaim should set up a defense fund or something.
heck someone should set up an open source defense fund. but that would require folks to be orgainzed or something.
Check out the Vinny the Vampire [eplugz.com] comic strip
I realize it sucks... (Score:3)
It DOES seem confusingly similar (Score:2)
I can easily see how people could confuse it with something created by AOL, Inc.
Why not just avoid the problem by calling your software something like "WhizBang - an AIM compatible client for Linux" or something like that?
Confusingly Similar? (Score:3)
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
EIM? GIM? (Score:2)
Re:I realize it sucks... (Score:2)
What about lower case? (Score:2)
FWIW - When Northern Telecom became NORTEL, some telcom company in CA called Ortel sued for TM infringment. The judge finally declared that NORTEL could keep the name as long as they included NORTEL Networks under the logo.
Hmm - maybe theres the possibliy of either tweaking the case (which the lawyers seemd to intent on maintaining) or include something like Gnome IM underneath it.
huh? (Score:2)
Re:huh? (Score:2)
Re:jaim developer (Score:3)
When you play, play to your own strengths, not the strengths of the enemy.
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Re:Idea (Score:2)
AOL is not gaining the users they want. They want users who can view their adds in the AIM windows. Us Gaim users don't view adds. Period. And we never will. So AOL doesn't want our business. We tax their servers and show no gratitude. I hate to be so harsh, but that's their view - we do nothing for them, yet use what they give away.
If Gaim stops work, the software just gets worse. AOL wins because people stop using it. It's that simple.
The best thing for Eric and Rob and everyone else involved is to keep working on it to make it the best AIM client there is (i've used it every day for 2 years now and i do think that it's the best) and fight this as far as they can. The key there is as far as they can. I, for one, don't much care what the product is called. But as a matter of principle, they should fight it, because they're in the right.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
AOL has attacked me for my domain, I won! (Score:2)
Rob sent me an e-mail this morning letting me know of their troubles with AOL, seems like I'm not the only one getting hounded by them!
I've recieved a letter by AOL's lawyers concerning my domain icqbot.net, they said that the name was "confusingly" similar to www.icq.com [icq.com] and they wanted me to turn it over immediately, inclosed in the letter was a transfer form..
Rather than transfer www.icqbot.net [icqbot.net] into their control, (I had it appraised and it's worth almost $6,000)
I submitted this story to slashdot back when it first happened, I was a little disheartened that it never made it in. But either way, I encourage you to keep up the fight, I sent Rob some advice based on my legal research when they attacked me.
best of luck!
Ps. My software is an AI program for ICQ.
Lonnie A. Waugh www.icqbot.net [icqbot.net]