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Another Free Cue* Gadget At Radio Shack 76

dizgusted writes: "DigitalConvergence, fine purveyors of the infamous CueCat, are back with CueTV. URLs will be encoded in TV programs. A free gadget, again from Radio Shack, will send them to a PC where a browser can load the page. Now one can be mesmerized by two devices simultaneously. More here." The article's a few weeks old, but apparently within the week is when these devices will show up at Radio Shacks.
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Another Free Cue* Gadget At Radio Shack

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    You're forgetting that companies are there to serve the consumer. If they realize that I'm not watching certain ads then they'll replace them with more interesting ones. What's your problem with this?
  • by Anonymous Coward
    The reality is that people do not want their PC anywhere near their TV. What they want is their TV to be more PC like, not integrated alongside it.

    This is probably the greatest promise of HDTV--not the digital signal (which is certainly nice) but the increased resolution that allows people to do more computing-like activities on their machines.

    And the only place that I have really seen anything close to what people would consider a huge "wow, let's dish out moola for this" is in smart homes. Problem is, if anyone has looked at the prices of those devices, wowser. Sweet, but prohibitively expensive for the average consumer.

    imo, this all means the *main* reason we have not seen convergence is not lack of design, lack of engineering, or impossible functionality; it's not the technical outline fo the ideas that's holding us back. It's plain old cost; good old-fashioned economics.

    The hardware to do what we want is here now. We can already have 160+ gb compressed audio devices, digital vcrs, high definition tv, etc. The networks can already use push technology and cookies to sync up ads. But that this stuff is just outrageously expensive to put all together. When you see companies like Apple and Sony in the picture as the early adopters, you know it's going to be an expensive (albeit neat) solution. Not for everyone.

    That's why we see these dubious, silly devices from companies like Cue. They are needed, we want them in a lot of ways, but they are what they seem--just hacks. Joe User doesn't want them because it's really not "easy" to do. Geeks don't want them for their intended purpose because the companies laden them with "hidden" baggage, like privacy concerns. This will again be another not such a common device in the household--it's just not what people want. Even if it is free.

  • ..broadcast in the wee hours, and I can ftp from TIVO over ethernet to my computer, then we'll have something to talk about.

    IMHO TV broadcasting should be viewed as data broadcasting anyway, as soon as it goes digital, and digital TV should be a special case of data broadcasting, not vice versa.

    The bandwidth should be pretty high, and broadcasting should be a gain even if you have to go on the internet to repair glitches in the captured data (you can't very well NAK a transmitted TV data chunk). It shouldn't be that hard to invent a protocol similar to ftp for repairing data captured from broadcast. It just has to be able to fill in holes rather than just continue from a break.

    This would be a good way to lighten the load on the net. Maybe you'd have data jockeys taking calls for broadcasting stuff. Or internet request pools, where once there are x people interested, it gets broadcast, and TIVOs catch it. MP3s at TV speeds anyone? Games? Software? Latest Linux?

    Fast, while you sleep. Oops, I forgot, wrong crowd for wee hours sleep.

    Not exactly rocket science. Someone will get rich from this. How come it's never me?

  • >What they should of done is found a way to encode a data stream in the television channel with useful information that people would want to see interspersed with ads - no internet connection required. This way computers without access to the internet can get some data, sports scores, news headlines, weather, etc

    Sounds a lot like TeleText [google.com], which has been around since the 80's in Europe. It uses an unused portion of the TV-image to transmit programming schedules, weather, news, sports, miscellany info and even software. IIRC it's not available outside Europe, though.
  • This is even worse than the quecat... this one takes the que from the tv in the form of a special audio signal, so the computer has to be in the same room as the tv, 'which is a lot of people now' according to some DC mouthpiece. Well, at least cnet, even with all its cheesy quotes ('telewebbing'?!?!?) is willing to link to stories about the previous failures of the cuecat, and the whole thing reads like a sad attempt at a press release.

    --

  • Does anyone think it's kinda stupid that it queues up URL requests if the machine isn't connected to the net?

    Something like this *could* be useful if it was integrated with TV like hyperlinks are with the web. You would need Seinfeld to put these cues into the show at points that demand them.

    I could really see this as useful for something like Junkyard wars or Connections3. The reliability is dubious too.

    It seems like a niftier idea than the CueCat, but if they haven't gotten their crap together after the last time, who knows how bad it'll bomb.
  • I heard that some of the older cuecats came with TV cables, infact... I have two cuecats and both came with a book saying there was a TV cable, but neither came with one. Does anyone know how this is done?

    What would be interesting is a television ad service based on barcodes. If you buy a product, you could scan the barcode to block advertisements for the product (since you are already a customer)... that would be pretty neat, then the commercial could be either removed so you can get to your show quicker.. or be fed an ad which is not blocked.
  • My cat came with the cables, but I never bothered to hook it up. Its not like I was going to use it for the reason they intended.

    --
    I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations ...
  • So...I need to get about 75 feet of wire to patch my desktop into my TV? Right. For some fucking reason the local paper here has decided to put CueCat barcodes in the paper now as well as charge me 50 fucking cents for the daily edition. They must be itching for money. So I have to drag the paper over to my PC and fumble around with a CueCat to try to scan a barcode? When will DigitalConvergence get the fucking clue that the keyboard and mouse are pretty decent ways to interact with a computer from meatspace. Another damn dumb gimmick. If you want people to visit your website after seeing your commercial put subliminal hypnotic suggestions in it.
  • Try Showshifter... http://www.showshifter.com

    I've been playing with it for a few days and it looks quite good (almost fully-featured demo too!). It makes ATI's bundled software look embarrassingly inadequate.
  • Yeah, but notice that the cable version says "Pick up the FREE :CueTV cable from the RadioShack nearest you or order one from us." and the wireless says "Get the :CueTV Wireless Audio-Link from the RadioShack nearest you."

    I wonder how much they'll be selling it for. I would guess that it is only mono because that is all that is required for their scheme, and it would help keep people from using it for anything else.

  • For technology that lets me see comercials for things I'm interested in, and lets me pick stupid commercials that I never ever want to see again and avoids those.

    If I'm interested in it, I will go and seek it out on my own, and most advertizing thus becomes superfluous. The purpose of the Great Advertizing Blitz in which we live is not to inform you, but to get you to buy stuff you weren't interested in, to keep consumption high to that production will be high so that corporate profits will be high. I'd rather not play, thanks.

    Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | http://www.infamous.net/

  • I assumed that the "obvious" way of getting the data would be through a small square in the corner of the picture. Modulate the square's luminance, and you have data transfer.

    It's been done, IIRC. Please don't ask for details, I barely remember reading about this ages ago. Some UK computer (Acorn?) had a thingie you could hook to it and point to the TV screen, during some computer program on the BBC a square would flicker away downloading to your deck. I though that was a pretty keen idea. I did a cursory Google but didn't turn up anything.

    Whatever their audio decoder costs, I'm sure that a simple photocell would be cheaper.

    I think you'd want a phototransistor instead, photocells are slow in their reaction times, relatively speaking.
  • > Its just an RCA cable with an end that plugs into your sound card. If anyone wants free cables, go grab them.

    Well, at least I'm more likely to find a use for that than I am for the twelve :Cue:Cats I have laying around the shop.

    I say Digital :Convergence is getting better, not worse ;-)

  • this one takes the que from the tv in the form of a special audio signal

    Audio, eh? I assumed that the "obvious" way of getting the data would be through a small square in the corner of the picture. Modulate the square's luminance, and you have data transfer. It should be pretty easy to explain to the customer, too.

    Whatever their audio decoder costs, I'm sure that a simple photocell would be cheaper.
  • by pipeb0mb ( 60758 ) <pipeb0mb&pipebomb,net> on Sunday June 10, 2001 @02:05AM (#163269) Homepage
    In the cnet article, there is a throwaway line:
    Seeking to capture more of this population, Sony recently announced that it would ship a product in June that lets consumers record TV programs onto DVDs from their computer.

    Does anyone have any info on this? Sounds like it would just about have to be a similiar setup, with mpeg capabilities. How great would this be? I hope this means simply DVD-r. PLEASE, let it mean DVD-r...

  • And here I thought I was one of the more technically inclined people around (by "normal" if not /. standards), and my computer is on a different floor than my TV. Hell I know lots of people whose TVs aren't even connected to there stereo, but (gasp) use the internal speakers.

    If I didn't have a good set of stereo speakers for my computer, I might be inclined to hook it up to play to my main stereo in the living room, but even then I wouldn't probably not want to run a second record cable. I can't tell from the article if it is a monitor cable hooked to your TV/amplifier, or just a microphone (even scarier)

    DC needs to learn that their "value added content" is not so spectacular that people are going to go to extra truoble to make it work, even if it is really cool once set up. The reality is that their service is mediocre at best, and way too much work to justify.
  • Ok I am missing something here, why on earth would anyone want to use this?

    Does someone honestly believe a bunch of people are going to run wires from their computer to their television, so they can rewatch the same advertisements on their computer - just adapted for the internet.

    Come on, If I am that interested in a product I can do a web search - don't need my television to be controling my web broswer.

    What is the benefit of using this product? It's going to be used all for ads, dont tell me otherwise.

    What they should of done is found a way to encode a data stream in the television channel with useful information that people would want to see interspersed with ads - no internet connection required. This way computers without access to the internet can get some data, sports scores, news headlines, weather, etc.

    The bottom line is people won't use this because the hassle of installing it + hassle of viewing lots of unnecessary ads > benefit to user * 10000!

    The saddest part of all is that the only people who are ever going to try this is people who read slashdot.
  • "Let me know what you think it could be used for."

    Write some software that ignores the "official" audios cues but trackes key phrases like "Hi, Bob." and "Make it so!". Voilà -- Now you've got computerized score-keeping for drinking games. If computer-assisted drunkeness isn't a killer app for the American market, I don't know what is.
  • CNET said so over a year ago [cnet.com], Business 2.0 said so in November [business2.com], and Hollywood Reporter said so in February [keenspot.com].

    Now, really: You can't expect Digital Convergence to ignore experts like those, can you?

  • by supabeast! ( 84658 ) on Saturday June 09, 2001 @10:53PM (#163274)
    "Now one can be mesmerized by two devices simultaneously"

    Now? You mean I am the only person who plays EverQuest while watching Oprah?

  • I work for RadioShack (Yes, i know. I'm currently seeking employement elsewhere. Anybody out there need a VB programmer?).

    The Cue cable is a cable with an RCA plug on one end (the tv end) and a 1/8" plug on the other. The RCA end also has a pass through so another rca cable can be hooked up at the same time.

    Of course, the idea is to hook it to your TV and have it send audio ques that take you to a website. Now what they don't usually mention is that all the tv sound comes through the computer's speakers.

    While the cat and cable are free, there are a couple of related items that are not:

    The "Audio Link" -- this is a wireless sender that does the same thing the cable does and sells for 19.99

    The Cue cat holder -- attaches to your monitor or computer and holds the cat. Usually sells for 1.99, but during this promotion it's now .99

    The contest with nbc works something like this. you get the cat & cable & install it. You also get a game piece with a barcode on it. Once you install the cat, you swap the barcode and that enters you into the contest. I think the prize is a trip to hollywood to be a guest on an nbc show.

    Anyway, don't be surprised if rs employees try to get you to buy stuff when you go to get one. That
    s why radioshack is doing this - to get people in the store. Now any employee is suppose to average about $32 per ticket. And every cat counts as a ticket. And a $0 ticket at that. So the employee has to make up for it by trying to sell you more stuff.

    IMHO, the idea of using the tv to go to web sites probably sounded good at the time, but they didnt think it through. (It's a cool hack, but not very usefull.)
  • You can get a usb cuecat from cuecat.com but they charge you 5 dollars shipping. You can get a ps2 to usb adapter at radioshack but its 10 dollars.
  • It's the first time the offered the cable for free (big deal, it's a 2 buck cable, nothing special). They always had the ability to do this, it's just now they have marketing....it will still fail. I might get one just for the cable. I checked out :CueCat website and the even have a Cross Pen (called the covergence pen) that will let you scan codes when not tethered, then upload them to the computer via optical link. Best thing is if they go under you still have a really nice pen. [cuecat.com]

    I just check the link and actually this is more then just a cable, it's wireless too. Hmm....may be worth the trip to get this thing (imagining reversing the link for wireless MP3 playing on my stereo!).

  • That's what this is....go get one, reverse the connections....have MP3 on your stereo 20 ft away. Be happy!

    :)

  • by Argy ( 95352 ) on Sunday June 10, 2001 @01:30AM (#163279)
    ABC Enhanced TV has been doing what it needs to do since 1999, without any extra hardware. They control when things are broadcast on your television, and synch the content on their web site to that broadcast. Of course they have to offer something you'd be interested in, like additional trivia for statistomaniacal sports nuts, or real-time polls or whatever. That way you'll put up with the Enhanced Commercials on your computer :-).

    Perhaps the most touted benefit was a gimmick for Monday Night Football viewers. They had a well-educated representative from Britannica.com provide real-time explanations of Dennis Miller's notoriously obscure references. (Yeah, they could have done this with text on the TV - like I said, it was a gimmick).

    Cue's idea could theoretically allow the same sort of thing without the need for precise scheduling. You'd be able to synch web info even if you're watching a videotape, for example. Or marketers could record the "links" right into their infomercials, broadcast them whenever local rates happen to be cheap, and still be able to launch mounds of pop-up ads on your computer before you can hit the mute button.

    The idea of allowing television broadcasts to control proprietary closed-source software on your computer that connects to the Internet has some amazingly evil possibilities. It's an almost Microsoft-like idea, except for its being doomed to financial failure.
  • Their "audio decoder" costs them nothing - they use your pc's sound card. All this thing is is a cable for attaching your tv/vcr/dss audio out to the line in on a pc, plus appropriate software.

  • by tftp ( 111690 ) on Saturday June 09, 2001 @11:55PM (#163281) Homepage
    Why would anyone want to have those "cues"? It is not easy to put wires on the floor (or hide them in walls, ceiling), so some effort is needed. But where is the benefit? Even if I once in a blue moon see a useful ad (can't recall such case though) I can always write down the info and research it later. At least the cat was a novelty. A bunch of wires isn't. Most people don't even have the computer on when they aren't using it. DC apparently thinks people run their PCs non-stop... but that's not true.
  • YES!

    That would be great...

    TV: "My name is inigo montoyo. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
    Computer: TAKE TWO DRINKS

    -------

  • by anotherone ( 132088 ) on Sunday June 10, 2001 @05:53AM (#163283)
    Somewhere inside :Cue headquarters

    Head Engineer: We messed up big time. Why did we make a product that was useful in other ways than what we designed?

    Head of Marketing: Meh. We need some type of product that's useless to anyone.

    HE: I know! What if we have a way to connect your TV to your computer? Geeks use TV tuners cards in their computers, and REAL geeks- the kind who can reverse engineer anything, don't watch TV!

    HM: Genius.

    -------

  • I picked mine up last week. All it consists of is a cable that has an RCA at one end as well as a female RCA plug to plug whatever was plugged into your TV/Stereo, then the other end has a stereo jack for your line in on your sound card.

    They have software that listens for the "cue".

    Couldn't we write the software ourselves and listen for the cue and then tell it to do whatever we want?

    By the way, it does work across a 2.4 GHz wireless transmitter. Particularly X10 but they all should work. (It's simply transmitting audio so there isn't any reason it shouldn't.)
  • What? Follow an existing protocol? No way!

    Actually, it makes a twisted sort of business sense, I suppose. Some possible reasons for NOT using T2 to send this data:

    URL data in T2 can be encoded on the tape or inserted later, right up to and including at time of air. Anyone along the broadcast chain -- from content originator right up to whomever is actually broadcasting the signal you're actually receiving -- can stick that data in there. That would make it difficult for DC to collect.

    Data in T2 can also be removed just about any time you want, again including at time of air.

    Broadcasters want to be able to charge their advertisers separately for having URLs (or "Cross-Over Links" as they like to call them) in their commercials. Don't want to pay extra? Guess we'll just shut them off, then. Now, imagine that a cable or DSS provider decided they wanted to do the same thing to the broadcaster. Don't share that revenue? We'll turn T2 off so YOU won't get the $$$ either.

    Bandwidth. T2 gets a max of about 60 characters per second. EIA suggests that you don't use nearly that much. (I think the guideline is 15% of total Line 21 usage or something like that. It's been a while.) Much more bandwidth available in the audio signal. There are (or possibly were) companies who were doing various interactive TV things using the audio signal.

    Compression. Certain networks (PAX comes to mind) do time compression. They "speed up" the playback in order to squeeze in extra commercial spots. (Something like 30 seconds per hour maybe?) This does some very bad stuff to all line 21 data. Don't know how it would affect the audio tracks.

    I don't know, the whole idea sounds really dumb if you ask me.

    --john

    p.s. The URLs you see on your TV when you put your decoder in T2 mode are indeed intended for WebTV users. Most broadcasters aren't doing much with it yet but usage is increasing. To see a whole bunch of them, tune to the Weather Channel.

  • by fleener ( 140714 ) on Sunday June 10, 2001 @05:41AM (#163286)
    Don't worry. This is just version 1.0. Future renditions will be much simpler. For example, they know you hate watching commercials. So maybe they'll just save you that step and directly debit your bank account and ship you the products they advertise. These will be products you want because, of course, the corporations will already know everything about your habits, tastes and thought processes.

    Just sit back down and relax as we plug this IV into your arm. No need for you to think anymore. We've taken care of that for you.

  • Now all we need to do is reverse engineer the protocol, and then start making our own videos.

    Imagine how cool this could be, you could make a music video, set up (say) 100 pages of pictures on a website, and have 'stereo' video productions.

    Or maybe a video on the evils of the Cue corporation, with embedded links to sites describing how they cracked down on reverse engineering of the CueCat !

  • Well, you can give them fake data then. Tell them you have 20 kids if you don't have any, lie about age, gender, race, religion, income, location, even your name, etc. If they are shady enough to try to use loopholes in the law, and they are acting unethically that it could be considered fair for you to lie (make sure it isn't illegal though). That could make their data worthless.

    If no one will help you, consider "Self Help" measures. ;)

  • Why not? You can put in references in a program.

    A new form of TV advertising, computer control. Just like product placement.

  • This page showed how a :Cue:Cat can be useful, I'm sure this audio thing can be used to a simular end. I, personally, found it useful learning how to Over Clock The :Cue:Cat [geocities.com]. Pushing hardware like this to it's outer limits is very important to the geek comunity so I suggest you check out the link, and go through all the pages.

    --Josh
  • We don't here much about DigiMarc's failed attempt to use software to read digitally waermarked URL from print media using USB cameras. But this is because that company's prime revenue source comes from image watermarking technology for security purposes. Think copy-protection for still pictures. They didn't have very much at stake with the camera deal, but I believe their attempt failed solely because they only gave away a few thousand input devices rather than the millions of (cheaper) toys given/mailed by RadioShack/DigitalConvergence.
  • I'm sorry to say it, but this technology just makes it 10 thousand times easier to generate more data about me. Data that I sure don't want some company to have so they can "specialize their marketing" to better suit what they believe I will buy as a consumer.

    I don't, personally, see that as a bad thing. There are certainly many pieces of information you don't want to give out, like your SSN (which you have to give out for every little thing these days), your mother's maiden name (likewise), etc. But really, the fact that you go to watch, say, various heavy-breasted commercials can only be a good thing for them to know. Then, more ta-tas will show up on your tee-vee.

    Not only that, but they will be able to find out what you're watching - This is good! First, nothing on the TV stations that'll carry this content is the kind of thing that will get you into trouble, unless you're trying to establish an alibi and talk about some show that wasn't even on or something. But really, don't you want the shows you watch to be successful? This is your chance to keep the shows you like on the air.

    I'm not sure I believe what I'm saying here, but I like to do the satanic advocacy thing.

    Also, I wouldn't sign up unless the T&C said that no one would ever get my address or email address from them. I'm quite willing to be a statistic, but I don't want targeted spam. I DO want my needs to be known, I just don't want anyone specific to know about them. I want to tip the scales, not be the only weight on 'em.


    --
    ALL YOUR KARMA ARE BELONG TO US

  • by _Nemmeran_ ( 157098 ) on Sunday June 10, 2001 @04:30AM (#163294)
    I picked mine up at the shack on Wednesday. Its basically an audio patch wedge on one end, and a stereo mini-jack on the other. Go get one and give fake info. For some reason, they dont even include software with them, but you can get it with a cuecat.... if ya WANT it.
  • I haven't heard any cues yet, but I bet it will become annoying... If you watch Dateline NBC and some other NBC programming, and you turn your Closed Caption decoder on to capture text page 2, you can already see URLs stream across (I assume they are related to the programming - for WebTv users). I think that Closed Caption decoder chips are now in the $10 range (retail), which would allow for taking the data off the VBI for cheap..
  • this one takes the que from the tv in the form of a special audio signal, so the computer has to be in the same room as the tv

    All if can imagine is the effect on house pets. Obviously it has to be above the range of human hearing. But if it gets into bat range, then it is far more directional.

    Presumably they decided to do it this way instead of using IR because otherwise all of the sequences in the scanning of URLs just interfered with too many other remotes.

    Check out the Vinny the Vampire [eplugz.com] comic strip

  • by neteng ( 184148 ) on Sunday June 10, 2001 @01:41AM (#163297)
    Hey, this could be the new method for doing accurate real-time Nielson ratings. When do we get our chips embedded into us? These were available at the State College, PA Radio Shacks on June 1st. Its just an RCA cable with an end that plugs into your sound card. If anyone wants free cables, go grab them. How many losers can a company create and still stay in business? I guess two at least.
  • When I started writing about the CueCat last year, the promotional material I received included what purported to be recordings of television cues. I didn't have the analysis tools I have today to try to determine how they encode digital data in the sound, but my short attempt with a spectrum analyzer didn't expose anything obvious.

    I do know something about the audio chain used in television stations, and can tell you that the chain is unable to pass anything outside the passband 50-15,000 Hz. Remember, television sound is transmitted using FM modulation of a subcarrier at the top end of the channel. (Picture information is transmitted using AM, and color information by phase modulation.) Transmitting anything about 15 kHz at any significant level would cause the audio signal to splatter outside the allowed passband. Not only that, but most television reception equipment -- especially for the home -- wouldn't pass the out-of-band signal out the RCA jacks anyway.

    Now that I have a copy of the SDI watermark attacks, I can try some of those techniques to find the embedded information without having to reverse-engineer the stupid Cat software, which doesn't work on Linux anyway...

    (It also means I now have a reason to install the TV-tuner card into my PC and get a cable hook-up to it, assuming that I want to try to capture this stuff anyway. Because the TV-card is supposed to play through the computer speakers, I should be able to grab the sound stuff as it goes by.)

  • by satch89450 ( 186046 ) on Sunday June 10, 2001 @06:42AM (#163299) Homepage

    I just check the NBC/CueCat web site [perfectprize.com] and saw that the show that will have "Cue-enhanced commercials" is none other than

    The Weakest Link

    Now, how appropriate can that be? I mean, one of the lamest game shows on television today being the vehicle for testing your CueCat link? It is to laugh...

  • by satch89450 ( 186046 ) on Sunday June 10, 2001 @06:31AM (#163300) Homepage

    The C-Text service was launched in, if memory serves, 1973. This used one of the top lines in the vertical blanking interval (line 16? Anyone remember that detail?) to transmit text at a respectable rate over a standard TV channel. The data stream was organized in numbered frames of about 300 characters each, and the system transmitted 15 C-Text data frames per second. A set-top box would scan the datastream for a frame with the frame number selected by the user; when that frame was received by the box it would put the data into a buffer and display the text on the TV screen.

    In the system demo I saw, the frame numbers were three decimal digits. Mini-computers (DEC PDP-11/70s) would structure the datastream and feed it to the transmission system. One reason for using the PDP-11/70s was that the head-per-track disk that seemed to be standard equipment for those computers could ensure that frame assembly could be done in real time. The software kept a "play list" of frame numbers, so that common frames would be transmitted frequently while less-common frames would be transmitted at less frequent intervals.

    The reason I saw this demo was that Rockwell was thinking about launching a C-Text type service in the United States. When Marketing was done chewing the numbers, the resulting opinion was that offering the service didn't have a large enough ROI to justify the expense and risk. So Rockwell said "thanks, but no thanks." Broadcasters were worried that C-Text data would interfere with the transmission-quality test signals built into lines 18 and 19, and the telcos echoed the feeling.

  • ..are, the easier they'll be 'persuaded' to purchase something. no control -> no choice -> (sadly) no reason to do anything else.
    join the flock.
  • Interesting Do you block banner ads, web bugs, and whole plethora ways companies have of getting information about you? I figure it's too late for myself to keep the genie in the bottle where it belongs. Only in the last year or so I've become more secuirty, and privacy conscience. I only wish I knew about "magic cookies" (what Netscape originally called cookies) back in '96 when I logged on in High school. Ahhhhh Though now, when I sign up for stuff, I tell them to leave me alone. Whatever happened to the whole share knowledge of the web community and not this commerical entity it is today? ::sigh::
  • For technology that lets me see comercials for things I'm interested in, and lets me pick stupid commercials that I never ever want to see again and avoids those. The advertizing revenue would have to be ten times better per ad and much less annoying.

  • Just reprogram the CueCat thingy to mute/change channels for the duration of the commercial. That's what I'm going to do with mine.

    I doubt that Radio Shack is going to make you sign some EULA to only use this hardware as they tell you to. I'll avoid installing any CueCat software so that they can't bind me to a EULA there.

  • I got my first one two weeks ago, and just got another yesterday. Now they're giving them away in nice special bags with the big Cue logo and everything, as though you just came out of the CueCat Store. :)

    --
  • We've a PC just for video capture from cable or VCR and output back to our SVIDEO TV or VCR. Of course, it's holed up in another room on top of my rack and we access it with VNC to control video playback (the house has CAT5 drops everywhere and 802.11 wireless). We also use the box for mp3 output to our stereos, including an ourdoor set of speakers. We've even got a serial hookup out by the BBQ so I can bring out an old dumb terminal and folks can search and add songs to the queue. Next thing is to add an old PC out there to rip songs from CDs so folks can add music they've brought with them.

    http://jason.artoo.net/2001-06-04/Rack_3_sm.png [artoo.net]

    I'll admit, at the moment I'm the only one I know to have gone this far, but I've got a number of co-workers that have done either the video capture thing or the mp3 output to stereo. Yes, we're "geeks," but as soon as it's put together in an easy to install and use packages, folks will buy it, if it's marketed right.

  • Homemade Tivo - ATI's latest offerings have me considering this myself.

    Might want to be prepared for some hassle here, I got an ATI all-in-wonder Radeon, and the TV-on-demand is flaky at best. I havn't had much time to play with it, but it seems to be some sort of codec problem. (i.e. fixable in software)
    -

  • There's more USB Cats out there than just the Compaqs. I got mine from a recent promotion on ibm.com. ==Jake
  • Makes sense. It's aimed at the same group that would watch the show. Remember Digital Convergence did market research and know what they are doing. They goofed on the first one and got caught by the number of Geeks that would get the cats and tinker with them AND under-estimated the number of users that couldn't type a product into a search engine, but still could plug in the cat and actualy scan something.
  • I know this is too late to be noticed by most of the Slashdot crowd, but the USB adaptor does not need the Cue Cat software or scanner! It does the job of other adaptors costing up to $40 US. I needed to teach computer skills to a handicapped person and needed to add a second keyboard. This little jewel did the trick. It does not work with PS2 Mice however.
  • so maybe if i encode some content in my public access show with cuecat links, i can open a hole in your computer's security, track your movements, find out what your habits are, and sell you worthless junk...

    oh wait, digital convergence has got that pegged.
  • I know that geeks love gadgets, and love to play with them, and the original :Cuecat bar code scanner was one of the greatest free gadgets ever given away, but this new TV scanner thing, how could it be used by the geeks?

    At least with the :Cuecat barcode scanner one could use it to make databases of their material possessions that had a barcode.

    Let me know what you think it could be used for.
  • Why do these fool-ass companies come out with these idiot marketing plans and devices that are guarranteed to fail?

    This plan ("People own TVs. People own computers. We've got to be able to make money off of that somehow...") reminds me of the underpants gnomes on South Park:

    Step One: Collect underpants
    Step Two: ???
    Step Three: Profit!


  • The networks, by carful planning can tell say ABC in Philadelphia, to broadcast the signal that sends everyone to go to www.nbc.com/news.asp?id='Philadelphia.PA'
    Then they have the New York ABC to send everyone to www.nbc.com/news.asp?id='New York.NY', and they do this in every broadcasting center across the country.
    They can then get lists of every person who happened to watch the news that night, where they are located, their IP address, etc., etc., and if you happened to already do business with them or an NBC affiliate, the cross-reference they use the cookies that are probably already on you computer to match up the data.

    Now you are saying that the broadcast areas are usually very large, well yes and no. The areas that are unuslly mid way between the diferent areas, for instance Old Bridge, New Jersey (a city pretty much halfway between Philadelphia and New York), almost always have both NBC broadcasts, and usually at different times so that the people there can watch both versions of the news. In these cases, the computer would go to both Philadelphia's and New York's page, and the database system would see this, and then be able to place the person into the areas where they know there networks overlap.

    No more need to type in where you are located, giving you the change to say Tokepa, Kansas, or some other city that you don't live in, they know where you live, now you have to do whatever possible to kep them from knowing you name.

  • Mod this guy up, this is great stuff.
  • by FKell ( 253556 ) on Saturday June 09, 2001 @11:21PM (#163316)
    I'm sorry to say it, but this technology just makes it 10 thousand times easier to generate more data about me. Data that I sure don't want some company to have so they can "specialize their marketing" to better suit what they believe I will buy as a consumer.

    Think about this one second. They can send the data at specified times to certain areas of their TV networks, and when the next time you log on your computer, they can then match up that data with your computer and know the general area where you are located (and to a very good degree). No more hassle with haveing you input you address anymore, cause the only way you would have gotten that signal was if you had a TV that got that signal.

    The only way I would EVER think about getting one of these is if they:
    1) would gaurentee that they would not share or sell the database information to anyone else
    2) would allow me to view and edit any and all information collected about me
    3) if the company goes out of business, the data in the database can not be considered a company asset and thus be sold to anyone, specificly a clause that would state that the data about me ultimatly belongs to me, and that I am only leasing to the company the rites to view and use the data.

    I don't want to sound like I am paraniod or anything, its just that I truely feel the internet has become just a comercial entity in which the users of it are just giving more food to the corporations in a much easier way for them to collect and keep checks on that information. I would truely rather be an anonymous entity in a huge group of anonymous entities, thus giving me the freedom to express my opinions and beliefs without any fear of personal backlash. A place where I can be whoever I want whenever I want, do things that I would never even dream of doing in real life and not have to worry about those actions comming back to haunt me at some later time because someone was cataloging them and had a way to tell exactly who I was EVERY SINGLE TIME I go online.

  • I'm with you on this one. I personally would LIKE ot see ads for stuff I'm interested in (like stuff from ThinkGeek :) ). Same goes for banner ads. I can't stand popups due to the annoyance factor, but I'm happy when sites try to tailor the ads to my tastes. Hell if I have to have ads on the site, might as well have them possibly be interesting to me.

    I always laugh about people freaking about sites trying to match ads to consumer bowsing habits. Sure, it means they might know I spend 24 hours a day at ninenine.com :) but that the price you pay ;)

    Now before you privacy zealots get your panties in a wad - I'm not saying I want no privacy. Its just that to me, a company with my browsing habits via cookie is not a huge deal and actually provides me with some potential benefit. Same goes for TV. I'd love the advertisers to know it was me watching TV - then they could play Victoria Secret commercials for the whole time I'm watching! BONUS!

  • by lindner ( 257395 ) <lindner@inuus.com> on Saturday June 09, 2001 @11:00PM (#163318) Homepage
    The old cue cats came with a television cable, so this is nothing new. The only big difference is that NBCi.com has entered into a marketing agreement to promote the format and the device.

    Still, I don't see how they're going to convince thousands of people to string audio cables between the TV and the computer.

    ABC's enhanced tv much does it smarter. By syncing the web site to the television timing you get exactly the same effect. TV commercials on "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" result in the same ad on your computer screen..

  • by Liquid-Gecka ( 319494 ) on Saturday June 09, 2001 @10:59PM (#163319)
    Was done by Illiad [userfriendly.org]..
  • When people already have the computer and TV in the same room, which is a lot of people now, and they're watching television...this is the new thing that's not been done before and they'll want to do it.

    Yes of course. I want something of what he's been taking. I know nobody that wants the PC on when they are watching TV. The d*** PC is noisy. I know of some people that like to have the TV on as they surf, but usually give almost no attention to it.

    This kind of things are so far away of what I would consider a good bussiness plan, that sometimes I wonder if it's only me. I mean, these people have got money to back their loony ideas, and we are no longer in the anything-goes era, rather the other way around.

    As a rule, I would consider a bad sign that they have to give away the hardware, so as to create a market. If the idea is so good, why they think nobody is going to pay a dime for it? And if nobody is ready to pay for it, why are they going to connect it at all, even less to use it?

    But well, perhaps I'm wrong this time, I've been wrong before. But, also as a rule, you have to start with a perceived need, and then develop a product or idea. But lately I see more and more of "let's press this wonderful idea on the not-so-interested public, they don't even know they have this need". Ok, enough of it. Wake me up the next time somebody invents a videophone, or a micropayment system.

    --

  • Despite the multitude of slashdotters posting that they just got a patch cable, digital convergence claims to have a wireless product [crq.com] coming out (further down on the page than the cueTV cable). Now, I don't care about their intended use of the thing - I'm going to get one and see what it can do. The cue cat (properly modified to be anonymous and with a switch to select the encoding) was a great tool (I scanned in my 750 volume library with one).

    It might be too much to wish for that this thing broadcasts enough of the audio spectrum to use as a MP3 broadcaster, but it might be a good low-bandwidth wireless transmitter when used with some of the (baycom-like) audio-broadcasting technology that HAMs have developed. Also, it seems there must be some sort of memory associated with storing the information, which is also cool and hopefully hackable. The company almost made hacking the cue cat too easy - let's hope they still haven't a clue. I also hope that they keep trying this sort of business model, so that I can do my part in getting free stuff and causing them to go bankrupt.


    cuebox

  • What they should of done is found a way to encode a data stream in the television channel with useful information that people would want to see interspersed with ads - no internet connection required. This way computers without access to the internet can get some data, sports scores, news headlines, weather, etc.

    They've done that the last 20 years or so. In Europe, text-TV gives you all that. I don't know why US never managed to launch text-tv of some form. Vetoed by adverstisers? Picked the wrong testmarkets? Mainstream US consumers are hyperslow adopters? TV industry is technologically challenged? Not enough bells and whistles for the decision making executives?

  • DC has defrauded me. DC has defrauded us all.
  • by phalse phace ( 454635 ) on Sunday June 10, 2001 @12:40AM (#163324)
    Personally, I don't think they would ever promise to not sell their database of information to anyone or any company. They know the value of such data. And considering the number of tech companys that have been going belly up, they could sell the database to help pay off whatever debts they may have.

    But if they ever do make such a promise, we'll be protected since a bill was passed in March by the U.S. Senate along with the U.S. House (though I can't remember which one or where I read this) which would prevent bankrupt companies from selling their database of personal data, if those companies promised not to. Only thing is there's also a loophole in the bill -- companies can sell or lease the personal data and it would be justifiable if it is consistent with the company's pre-existing policy. And because there's this loophole, many companies have already changed their policies, or are beginning to (or eventually will) change them to reflect this. Ebay recently did this [wired.com] and Amazon has since September 2000.

  • ...but not for their intended purpose. I loved the original CueCat and audio cable because the cable was great for audio capture, and the cuecat - well! Taking that sucker apart for spare parts (wires primarily) was a very nice way to spend an afternoon. I wouldn't want to pay for these things, but if Cue wants to give me cheesy electronic gadgets to take apart or do something useful with, more power to them.

    Idea for Cue: Why not give away CueCams, digital video cameras that connect to your computer and send your browser to any URL they see on any visual media? I promise I would not use it as a webcam. Honest.

  • Yes, and also a note:

    They now have USB CueCats, besides those horrid PS/2 ones.
  • It's obvious to me that the Cue folks are hoping to get better than a reasonable statistical sample of viewing habits. Data this accurate about TV watching habits is extremely valuable to marketing departments at television stations/networks as well as advertisers, and I'd bet they'd pay Cue big money for the info. Bonus: The data is instant, costs near-zero to collect, and can be broken down by individual advertisement.

    As a business person, I'd be more likely to buy ad time from a station that can show me "Cue says we have a 65% market share" versus one that shows me "Nielsen's survey says we have a 65% market share". I'd be more likely to buy ad time from a station that can tell me "Your ad was presented in 65,536 homes" versus one that tells me "According to Nielsen, the sponsored show was viewed at least partially in 65,536 homes"

    Some may think this is all about tracking individuals, and perhaps it is, also. The data this generates, however, is likely to be most valuable to track entire advertising markets. We've already established that Cue knows where you live (by ZIP code) and that's all this would need.

    Whatever. I don't use Windows, and I don't own a television set. I wonder if Nielsen even has a blank for "respondent doesn't own a television set" ... Cue certainly doesn't.

  • Okay, assuming you don't have a SO that objects ("You're gonna put a computer where?!"), there are really only a few reasons you'd actually want your computer near your primary TV:

    DiVX ;) - Nuff said.
    Homemade Tivo - ATI's latest offerings have me considering this myself.
    Video Capture - Kinda like the Tivo thing except you don't need specialized software.
    Serious Hardcode Bigscreen Gaming (or Porn) - Size does matter.
    MP3 Playback - There's something to be said for a home surround sound system compared to $19 K-Mart special computer speakers.

    Okay, that's a few reasons... However, they're all kinda geeky "function-over-form" reasons and you end up with cables everywhere. Only geeks need apply. I just recently bought a DC10+ capture card and hooking it up involved buying the longest stereo A/V cable Recoton sells, a 12 footer. It barely reaches, and my computer and TV are in the same room.

    If they're seriously interested in getting Joe Sixpack to buy into this, RadioShack should start giving away wireless audio senders. This has the added benefit that it would make a great MP3 sender if used in reverse. I've seen the free "convergence cable", it's too short and it's mono... Props to anyone who can find a good use for it.
  • Hah, try and get a USB one! The packages say "For distibution with a new Compaq computer only."

    I talked to a dumber-than-usual salesdrone who offered me a Cue Cat, PS/2 of course. I told him I don't have a port for that on my computer cause it's a Mac (okay, I do have a Mac, so it's not entirely lying - but I never use it.) and asked if he had any Cue Cats with a different connector... He gave me a USB Cue Cat. Finally. Trying it out wasn't all that exciting though, it's HID compliant and doesn't need any special drivers to work with the current windows hacks.

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