Defying Canada's Internet Election Gag Law 29
Snocone writes: "On Sept. 11 Canada had two byelections for Parliament on opposite sides of the country. Elections Canada banned the posting of the Nova Scotia results on the Internet until the polls closed in British Columbia. AppleLinks has the story of how a retired schoolteacher who defied the law by posting to a Web site in Scotland had his computer seized by the RCMP and how a B.C. developer has now published a site to provide realtime results of the Nov. 27 general elections. However, being a Canadian resident, he risks having his equipment seized in advance of the election. Any non-Canadian residents out there want to volunteer their Webmastering services to Fight the Power? Massive Canadian media coverage guaranteed! :)"
Vote Scorched Earth (Score:1)
as a canadian, this pisses me off... (Score:2)
As others have said (Score:1)
one's vote should not be based on what other people have voted.
if everybody had to mail in their vote a week in advance, 'realtime' vote counting wouldn't be a bad idea, but too many people would change their votes based on what other people have voted, or would wait until the last minute to vote because they want to see what happens first.
think about it, it makes sense
Re:As others have said (Score:1)
election results of the eastern side of canada are reported to the eastern side of canada shortly after the polls close, which is the main problem. Either the information should go to everyone, or no one. i think it should go to no one until all the polls are closed.
Sounds to me like the... (Score:2)
Duh.
Another alternative would be to simply open and close the polls AT THE SAME TIME all across the country.
Duh.
Ah...but both of those choices require brains capable of logical thought and a little bit of common sense which are features rarely found in the brains of political types. Or is it lacking in Canadians altogether?
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
Definitely important in this race too (Score:2)
The swing states are all in EST or CST (Wis, Michigan, Penn, Florida), so assuming that by 8pm CST, all polls in these states have been closed and the votes counted, and assuming no surprises in CA or OR, then the next president could have already been determined, thus effectively nullifying any west coast voted that tries to vote after 6pm their time. Yet we have CA which has moved from Gore to somewhat swinging, and OR where Nader's got hugh forces, and if the race is close, these states could adjust their voting plans to win the race, based on the poll results in the east (Namely, if Bush looks like he's winning, Nader supporters might swing to Gore).
There's no way to effectively have the polls open all at the same time and be fair to all the Americans (most open before 7am and close after 6pm local times to allow commuters to vote), so the better solution would be to keep all broadcasting of election results (both airwaves and internet) to nil until the last polling station in Hawaii is closed - which yes, you won't know the night of election day who won, but this would be fair for all voters across the nation.
Re: As others have said (Score:1)
Personally, I agree... and I also believe people should vote on what they believe, not on who is 'likely to win', or what the polls say. I almost think it'd be nice to get rid of pre-election polls, add to the guesswork of candidates who only want to say what The Masses want to hear, and (maybe, just maybe) get a few more candidates who'll say things not just for the sake of a few poll points in a few 'swing' states. (Yes, I'm in the US, not Canada, but what you've said here, I think, goes beyond that border.)
But of course, as long as the Two Parties in control can scare potential third-party voters by making them think the Other Guy might win.... And I can see how polls are popular. It's a lot easier to take part in a popularity contest than to make a true judgement of merit.
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Dewey Defeats Truman, anyone? (Score:1)
What is this absolute need that people seem to have for instant information? How much will your life change if you have to wait five hours for a bit of news?
Canada's gag law basically requires you to stall a few hours before you publish, to give each candidate a fair chance of getting the votes that they deserve. The United States has similar laws, for similar reasons.
Take a close look at that photograph [whistlestop.org] of President/President-elect Truman holding the headline that stated "Dewey defeats Truman". Had that headline been circulating in California before the polls closed, Dewey might have actually won that election in 1948!
Respect Canada's gag law. Anything that helps the election process reflect the truee feelings of all of the citizens of Canada should take precidence over a personal desire to get "the scoop".
Nonsense (Score:1)
Open the polls everywhere at 0000UTC and close at 2359UTC. The only twist to this is that according to the constitution, the electorate is supposed to cast all votes on the same day. I guess it depends on your definition of "a day". Yes it will cost more to pay another shift or two of election judges. So choose to withhold the data if that is not palatable.
If you want to get radical, dump the timezones alltogether. It's about time this country got its act together and simply decided to dump the TZs and operate under one TZ, not to mention the idiocy that is Daylight Saving Time.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
Re:Sounds to me like the... (Score:1)
- Anonymous Coward Against The Proliferation of Trolling based on Personal Opinions and Stereotypes
Election Polling and time (Score:1)
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
Re:As others have said (Score:2)
I guess the point of announcing the results after the poll is closed is to satisfy the publics anxiety as to who the 'winner' is (someone can correct me if I'm wrong or if it is more complicated than this).
All this fellow in B.C. is doing is spreading these results faster and more convieniently than if they were to travel by other means. I agree that this kind of puts a kink in the democratic process but why should it be illegal to do it in one fashion as opposed to another? If the government wanted to remedy this situation properly it could either decide to make all of the vote counting results available the day after the election or else it could announce them at the same time after all the polls have closed across the country (running the polls at the same time everywhere is unreasonable in that there is a 3.5 hour time difference across Canada and this would make it more difficult to vote in one region as opposed to another - everything needs to be uniform to ensure fairness). As per financial reasons and whatnot I do not really see there being that much at stake if the votes are announced the next morning as most financial institutions are closed by the time the polls close anyways. It's not like we'd need to know that candidate X was going to win so that we could flee the country in time before his regime oppressed us.
Our political system is very different (Score:3)
It's already been stated several times that the gag law is important for a country who passes through 5 timezones, and has major logistical problems for getting results up in the sparsely populated North.
Someone has repeatedly suggested closing the polls at the same, arbitrary time after a 24 hour interval, but I don't think that's financially feasible for a country who requires some huge number of polling stations to cover the geographic area, but less than 30 million people. I don't have the stats, but I have a hunch that the per-capita numbers of doing this works out to be more money than enforcing the 3.5 hour gag order.
The federal election is complicated in Canada due to the current 5 party system. Compare to the US: Let's say I lived in California and was for Nader. The East Coast results come before I vote, and I discover that Nader has no hope in hell, and so I change my vote to the lesser of the two evils. But frankly, in the US, it'll be one of the two evils anyway -- 3rd party candidates seldom have a chance.
But in Canada we have 5 federal parties. So vote changing can have a dramatic effect on the election results -- like going Canadian Alliance because the Tories aren't getting seats. <shiver of revulsion>
So why doesn't the Elections Canada defer releasing all the results? My guess is this: up here, we don't vote for the Prime Minister directly: we vote for our local federal representative, and the leader whichever party gets the most seats becomes the PM. It's not the same as the States, where (to my knowledge) you're locally represented in the Federal Government by 2 elected officials (Senator and Rep), and you chose your president separately. Here you vote federally once, and your local rep affects who your PM will be.
So while most of us here seem to agree that it's unfair to let the East Coast results affect the West Coast votes, I also think it's unfair to force the East Coast to wait for the West Coast to finish voting before they can find out who their local federal representative is.
The gag order is a compromise between the local need to know as sooner, and the federal need to know as later.
Sorry about that... (Score:2)
BTW, like your
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
This sort of thing happens in Eurolections (Score:2)
I don't see this as a major problem. The results will be published. We know when they will be published. A few days doesn't hurt. A few hours certainly wouldn't.
*sigh* (Score:1)
The truth is the Canadian election system actually works and most people in Canada believe in it (and the concept of representative democracy); that's why there's a 70%+ participation rate to federal elections (80%+ for some provinces). It's not perfect, our politicians make us cringe during campaigning (big surprise), but on the whole it works for us. That belief also explains why the distrust towards the system is not as prevalent in Canadian society compared to the US, where more people think the system is too broken to be fixed.
Re:As others have said (Score:1)
i assumed people were smuggling results somehow *shrug*
given that the results are available to begin with, the gag order is stupid
Re:Sorry about that... (Score:1)
>to be completely idiotic.
As opposed the intelligent laws passed regularly in the US?
They're politicians, they can't help themselves.
Re:*sigh* (Score:1)
Re:Sorry about that... (Score:1)
Re:Sounds to me like the... (Score:2)
If the polls all open/close at the same time, lets say 8am-8pm EST, that would mean that in newfoundland they are open from 10:30am-10:30pm which is too late to get people heading to work, and in BC from 5am-5pm, too early to get the commuters coming home.
Brillaint solution.
Re:*sigh* (Score:1)
Re:Our political system is very different (Score:2)
It's not the same as the States, where (to my knowledge) you're locally represented in the Federal Government by 2 elected officials (Senator and Rep), and you chose your president separately.
Each state has 2 Senators, which are elected directly by the voters of that state. (They serve overlapping terms, so only one of them can be running for re-election at a time.)
Each state has a variable number of Representatives, based on its population. If the state has more than 1 Rep, it's divided into districts geographically, and each district elects one Rep.
We have the illusion that we vote for the President directly, but in reality that's not quite true. The popular vote is simply used as an indicator, and the electoral college actually determines who will be President.
(Of course, that's somewhat of a simplification. Each state has a variable number of electoral college representatives based on its population. The popular vote in each state decides who will be in the electoral college this time 'round; but the trick is, each state gets a solid block of electoral college reps for whichever party gets the plurality of the popular vote. So for example, if Gore gets 47% of the vote in California, and Bush gets 45%, and Nader gets 6%, and Browne gets 2%, then Gore (or rather, the Democratic Party for whom Gore is the candidate) gets ALL of California's electoral college seats.
If you watch the TV coverage of the US presidential elections, you'll probably see a computer-generated map of the continental US, with each state colored red or blue as exit poll results come in. This is a realistic representation of how the presidential election works -- instead of getting X number of votes, you get whole states at a time.)
Re:Vote Scorched Earth (Score:2)
When I rule there will be no more of this because we will take over Canada first, before moving on to the rest of the world.
Please hurry. As a Canadian, my country affords me endless opportunities for international humiliation with its ill-conceived and protectionist policies.
Wanna see another recent Slashdot article on the erosion of free speech in Canada? Click here. [slashdot.org]
Anyone know any good American immigration lawyers who'll want to be a part of the massive publicity of a Canadian driving across the border at Niagara Falls and promptly claiming refugee status?
Re:as a canadian, this pisses me off... (Score:2)
the gag law prevents the results which are known in eastern canada from being transmitted to the west where they could possibly undermine voters' decision making process. the gag law is in effect so as not to undermine democracy!!
Obviously. But, why would you go after the guy who is reporting it on his website?
Elections Canada is the real bunch of idiots here; they shouldn't allow any info out until the west coast polls are closed.
I'm so sick of this idiocy. I spend over 50% of my income in taxes, and I have no services or even any national pride to show for it.
I have proof that God exists, and that He's mean-spirited: He chose for me to be born north of the 49th parallel.
A little perspective (Score:1)
A comedy program used to joke about this by saying "Good evening British Columbia (where I lived). Don't bother voting, its over." Guess what? We didn't.
Keep the gag order, intercourse the guy who wants to be "first to post...."
-- The Hollow Man
You think American parties are bad? Check this out (Score:2)
That belief also explains why the distrust towards the system is not as prevalent in Canadian society compared to the US, where more people think the system is too broken to be fixed.
Oh puh-leease.
Canada, same as the US, never has a party that is representative of any rational person's viewpoint.
Sure, there's the Canadian Alliance (Reform) Party, which is the Christian Right's party. While they'd probably balance the budget, they'd also turn Canada into a religious state. (Wanna live in a religious state? I understand Iran is really nice this time of the year.) Further, I'm not entirely sure that I want a party running the country with their name, the "Canadian Reform Alliance Party". Hmmmm... What are their initials? Didn't they check that name with any marketing focus groups?
The Progressive Conservative party is a vote thrown away: we may be stupid, but we're not stupid enough to have forgotten Mulroney. Besides, they're just the predecessor to the Canadian Alliance.
The Liberal Party racks up the debt, have proven themselves to be thoroughly ineffective, and pushes ill-conceived ideas that are divisive to national unity - things like multiculturalism. If someone immigrates here, I damned well want them to integrate into Canadian society, not to divide it. Refugees coming to Canada should be proudly stickering their 1987 Honda Accords with Canadian flags, not reflective gold "I love Uganda" bumper stickers.
And speaking of dividing Canadian society, we have the Bloc Quebecois. If General Lee were a contemporary Canadian, this would be his party.
Finally, we have the New Democratic Party. They're actually a little left of the small but vocal Socialist Party. The NDP pushes unions to the point where Canadian industry buckles under the strain. Why would you do business in Canada when an NDP government can turn labor laws around so that unskilled Toronto municipal parking attendants make $21/hr?
The situation here is every bit as bad as in the US. In the US, you have 2 channels and nothing on. In Canada, we got the fully-loaded cable-box of politics; like the song goes, "57 channels and nothing on".
All I want is a party of social liberals and fiscal conservatives. People who believe in capitalism, low taxes, freedom of speech, separation of church and state, equal civil rights for everyone. I can't believe I'm the only one who wants that.
At least in the US, there's unity, and a little better balance. Anyone wanna get a Canuck a Green Card? Check out my user bio.
Re:Election Polling and time (Score:1)
Also, You have probably never been in a club or orginisation based on the system of parlamentary democracy.
In a parlamentary democracy, there are multiple parties, each with its own candidates trying to get a seat in parlament. Each riding (the area which is represented) has a representative of each party trying to get the seat. Whichever party gets the most seats wins, and forms the government by assigning positions. In your analogy it would be like the secratary, chairman, etc. The second biggest party gets to form "Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition" who's responsibility is to second guess the controling body.
By "gaging" the process, each individual candidate is guaranteed a fair chance at winning his seat. If for example, in Saskatchewan, they find out that the Liberals won the majority in the East, we would most likely elect a liberal, just so we have a voice in government.Re:Dewey Defeats Truman, anyone? (Score:1)
The east coast polls close 3 hours before ours and the national news organizations report the results as they come out.
Various groups politely ask the networks not to forecast who has won before the west coast polls close, but they are not legally prevented from doing so.