DVD CCA Battle Continues Next Week 153
I recently had the opportunity to speak to Robin Gross, an attorney for the Electronic Frontier Foundation working on this case.
Slashdot : Come on, we're geeks, not lawyers. What does this hearing mean?
Robin Gross : It's important to note that in preliminary injunction hearings, this is pretty much where the game is played. This hearing is crucial in cases like this. Since we've got all these people in town for the RSA encryption conference, we're really calling upon the technical community to support this case and show up at court to educate the media there. Right now, the media focus is on piracy, and we need to turn that around. These folks are not trying to pirate movies, but rather watch the movies that they've already purchased, and continue research on DVD encryption. We're relying to a large extent on experts like cryptologists and programmers in the Linux community to educate their friends and family about encryption, and turn this around so people understand what the defendants are trying to accomplish.
This case is really important for a couple reasons. First, protecting the first amendment and free speech on the Internet. These defendants are engaging in activities that are completely legal in the US as well as in Norway where the plaintiffs are complaining the original sin occurred. A lot of these people are encryption scientists and computer programmers who are simply trying to learn how to play DVDs on their non-Windows boxes. Another reason is that it's really important that people are allowed to reverse engineer computer software. The law in this country, as well as Norway, allows people to reverse engineer software, letting them try to pick it apart, figure out how it works, and then use that knowledge to innovate and build new technology, products and services, and in this case, extending the DVD industry's market.
In a lot of ways, these people want to be DVD customers. They want to be able to buy DVDs and watch them on the computers they already have. So, their choice is either not buying DVDs, or watching them using this patch.
The EFF has their brief and other documents available at http://www.eff.org/pub/Intellectual_property/DVD/.
There are, of course, at least two sides to every story. This afternoon I spoke to Jeffrey Kessler, an attorney for Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP, the law firm representing the DVD Copy Control Association.
Jeffrey Kessler : I hope that we prevail. That's all I'm going to say at this point.
Since they weren't talking, I decided to pull on the ear of Douglas Winslow, one of the defendants named in the case. Douglas still has the DeCSS code posted on his site, and he is one of the many defendants that cannot appear in court due to distance and time constraints.
Slashdot: So, the preliminary injunction hearing is next Tuesday. Any feelings?
Douglas Winslow : I feel we have a strong case. It'll be interesting to see what kind of precedent is set.
Slashdot: Are you going to party if the defendants are victorious?
Douglas Winslow : I plan to party either way. I'll either end up watching or burning part of my DVD collection to celebrate the outcome of the hearing.
To be continued by Robin "roblimo" Miller on the 18th...
CNN (Score:2)
Good Preparation (Score:1)
Let's hit them where it hurts! (Score:2)
Us Nerds, Geeks, or whatever you want to call computer people are early adopters of new tech, if we stop buying their stuff, they may sit up and take notice.
ttyl
Farrell
How does copy protection help? (Score:2)
I've been trying to understand this encryption for a while. Obviously they inseret some codes that would tell a DVD writer not to write this data stream (simply to do without encryption, though encryption makes fitlersing impossibal without breaking the encryption)
Whats to stop me from taking apart a DVD writer (which I understand currently can'`t do this, but do to density of writing or some such, but eventially they will exist) and hooking it up to a dvd reader, again directly to the electronics. Granted this isn't easy, but I'm a geek, I can hack up enough controll software to do this. Note that I've not broken the encryption, I've just copied the moved encryption and all. This doesn't seem that difficult to me.
Ambiguous language (Score:2)
Re:CNN (Score:2)
Spin doctors can make a good smokescreen, but all it takes is a good stiff wind to make all their efforts for naught. When the legal ruling (which, in principle, should not be influenced by public opinion) comes down, the ruling will speak for itself. I just don't see the DVD CCA making any headway with this court.
Then the day is mine! (Score:1)
Umm...to keep it a little on topic, hmmm...go open source! Good luck to the defendants!
-FGP
Don't really wear bells! (Score:3)
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Re:Ambiguous language (Score:1)
I was thinking of just throwing them on a BBQ and/or frisbee'ing them down the block.. A microwave might work better now that you mention it. Tried it with CDs, but never with a DVD.
Anyway, I'm sure we'll win, so I hope I'll never have to nuke a DVD (though Star Trek IV is getting on my nerves.. ..)
Re:CNN (Score:1)
Here's a little history (Score:1)
[cnn.com]Activist defends DVD hack [cnn.com]
DVD hack concerns delays audio products [cnn.com]
Taking a trip back several months (dog years,) this was released waaaay before the hack. Now that prices are going down, this hack might be the break we are looking for, and a win for consumers:
Wait for DVD [not ready yet] [cnn.com]
WOW! (Score:1)
Disclaimer: IANAL! (but I do watch ally mcbeal every week...
Re:How does copy protection help? (Score:5)
I think that someone who could reprogram the firmware in a consumer DVD drive, could redesign it to return this segment without going through the CSS dance. Then they could extract all of the information on a DVD.
But currently available writable DVDs won't help them make copies because the drives can't write the special sector. I've heard that it is because the sector is burnt out on blank media.
Another difficulty is that currently available DVD writers can only write on a single layer which limits the capacity to an amount less than most DVD movies.
Easier said than done (Score:2)
I already have a DVD player - I don't own a VCR. I'm not willing to stop renting and buying DVDs just because the industry is launching a stupid lawsuit over creativity.
It's a great idea, but for most of us, it's not practicle.
kwsNI
Why? (Score:2)
What about people that want to create their own DVD content? Does it have to be encrypted to work on DVD players? The cynical side of me says that what it's really about is controlling the dissemination of content. Or at least finding a way to stay in the loop in a world where people would otherwise no longer need media companies to publish for them. Admittedly, my knowledge of this subject is a little weak...thus all the questions.
numb
Re:How does copy protection help? (Score:2)
This is exactly like VHS tapes. Did anybody use some stupid encryption scheme to keep people from copying stuff? No. They put up a big annoying sign that said if you copy this illegally, we'll open a can of whoop-ass on you.
If you are giving something to people, there's no way to
Jazilla.org - the Java Mozilla [sourceforge.net]
Tired of Suboptimal Technology (Score:3)
Re:WOW! (Score:1)
Re:Ambiguous language (Score:4)
Ah, child, you're too young to remember old-fashioned flashbulbs. Nothing but aluminum wire in a glass&plastic envelope, and man! were those suckers bright. Nothing, and I mean nothing burns like aluminum in oxygen.
Since this is a geek forum, here's a little science experiment. Wear welding goggles and sunscreen (no, I'm not joking about the sunscreen.) Do it far from anything combustible, like yourself or your car.
Get a little bit of the usual magnesium tape (you can light Mg with a match) and use it to start a small piece of aluminum foil supported by something you don't care about (because it's gonna be ruined.) The glare will be visible from orbit.
Oh, year: wear white or something you don't mind getting bleached by the UV. And trust me on the sunscreen.
Re:Ambiguous language (Score:1)
Grind the DVD's to dust, mix the aliminium produced with Ferric oxide and oxygen releasing compounds. Heat at a very high temperature. This will burn very brightly. It's Thermite.
Although Aluminium dust has been known to cause occasional explosions, and Aluminium sheets will burn under the right conditions.
Re:How does copy protection help? (Score:2)
There's always a hardware solution for everything. Unfortunately, using electronic means, rather than simply through software, is physical equipment that has to be set up. With the help of just an oscilloscope, possibly logic probes, or even a logic analyzer for the tough babies, the raw stream can be located for capture.
Software allows a much more portable means of distributing a solution. You can think of your computer as a programmable electronic laboratory. Those electronic project kits have to be hardwired. Linux and free software allows us to program an entire science project full of gates and latches with highly configurable code.
Granted, in this case, it would be much easier to simply copy the raw video stream if one wanted to pirate a DVD. Those who wish to steal the content and pirate it overseas can justify the costs of doing just that.
Most consumers who have no interest in copying a cheap dvd to an expensive blank can't watch it on their "obsolete" or non mainstream computer and were stuck without a player for alternative operating systems. Now we are not excluded.
Encryption != copy protection (Score:2)
This is really about freedom and control. They're basically using a crappy, easily-broken encryption scheme to try to control a proprietary format, and then bleating because somebody broke their crappy encryption and now a bunch of us might be able to watch DVDs on our Linux players without waiting for someone to pay them a bucketful of money for the specs on how to decode the DVDs. I say, "No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney."
Argh, I can feel myself going into full rant mode. Time for my medication. I'll leave it to others to rehash the reasons why this lawsuit should not only be thrown out of court, but taught in first-year law school as a prime bad example.
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DVD CCA & Press (Score:5)
1. Judicial Opinion. I don't care if justices are supposed to be impartial and whatnot, but they do watch the news and I am willing to bet that a fair amount of them study the case before it starts. If DVD can influence the judge in any way they will.
2. NSI Opinion. Remember eToys vrs eToy? eToys worked darn hard to make sure that everyone thought eToy was in the wrong. Because they did it successfully, they got NSI to step in remove the website from its DNS.
3. Public Opinion. DVD CCA is not an idiot and realizes that people may be the deciding key in the case. If the laywers for DVD can convince the judge that the public is against DeCSS (maybe by Xpert witnesses and such) or show that the public does not yet have the DeCSS source code enough to prevent CSS from be a trademark anymore they win the case.
The DVD CCA is doing an excellent job at its game. We (open sourcers) are doing miserably. Does anyone know of any article in FAVOR of us at any major news site? Probably not. I on the other hand have seen articles decrying us in my local paper (Minneapolis Star Trib, Pioneer Press) and heard about it on local radio stations. Nowhere (outside of
Laws be dammed, history has shown that public opinion often decides cases. (If it didn't we would probably have far less supreme court cases and the thing about that cuban boy Elian - wouldn't exist)
Re:How does copy protection help? (Score:3)
That's the main point - the CCA encryption does't prevent (or even hinder) copying, but prevents a non-authorised player from playing the film, as every frame is encrypted, and supposedly only "authorised" players whose manufacturers/writers have paid their dues to the CCA receive details of the encryption used and the keys. This has two immediate effects:
- Only people willing to buy their way into the CCA can produce software or hardware to play -LEGALLY OWNED- DVD disks
- the world can be divided up into DVD "Zones" where movies from another Zone can't be played on your player - thus, if the
.us version costs half as much as the .au, then you STILL need to pay the .au asking price, as the .us version just won't work (assuming you don't just set your box to .us and forget about buying .au movies, of course :+)
What it comes down to is that the movie industry wishes it was still back in the days of movie theatres, where you pay per view, per seat.YES, you can change the zone - but under the new spec, this can only be done a small number of times before the unit needs to be sent back to the manufacturer for the count to be reset.
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FAQ:s please! (Score:2)
Is there a FAQ somewhere with the usual:
- Commercial DVD recorders cant do bitwise copy
- And yes they mess with DVD -> VHS too
- Region codes yada yada
- Reverse enginering vs Norwegian and US law
- Single layer vs multi layer DVD
- CSS licence agreement
Somebody, Pllllease?Let's make a clear statement (Score:3)
Re:Why? (Score:3)
The only other way to make a copy, with a pre-written segment, would be if you could decrypt, and then re-encrypt, using the pre-written segment as a guide in some way. (Maybe it's written where the key is expected.)
The only catch would be if people built their own DVD players/recorders, in which you could simply jump over that segment, or if they were able to manufacture their own blanks, in which case they wouldn't have to pre-write anything.
Re:CNN (Score:1)
Re:How does copy protection help? (Score:5)
Absolutely nothing; and that is a critical point here.
Do you mess around with the Sony Playstation any? We'll, Sony engineered their hardware to prevent you from using copied Playstation CD in their systems. As I understand it, Playstation CDs are written with intentional checksum errors that are corrected when you attempt to copy them. The Playstation hardware looks for the errors; if they aren't there, it won't attempt to run the code on the CD.
We'll, didn't take long before some smart folks figured out how to get around it. The process involves soldering in a small microprocessor chip (a PIC) in the right place in the Playstation. The system checks tries to check for the checksum errors and the PIC says "it's cool - just go ahead." It's a $10 modification.
Sony doesn't send a cadre of lawyers to beat up people who do this. First off, they don't have a legal leg to stand on. The people who buy the consoles can do what they want with them and, if they want to solder chips inside - well, that's their right. Sony just makes hardware and sells hardware; you buy it and they are happy.
It's not the same with the DVD folks. The issue to the DVD guys isn't the encryption; the encryption technology is a means to an end. Rather, they want to control who can play DVDs in order to maximize profits. They make their money by licensing the decryption technology - other people make the hardware/software. That's why the Linux community wasn't important to them; it didn't seem like a big revenue source.
The reason they're mad (and sueing) is that they thought they could milk this decryption licensing cow a little while longer than it turned out they could. However, a bunch of smart people managed to shorted the cows life a bit. The DVD encryption folks don't have a leg left.
Re:How does copy protection help? (Score:3)
Re:Why? (Score:1)
Moderate this down (-1, You Don't Even Own A DVD)
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Dress up day (Score:5)
I think we have a very strong case here. A reaffirmation of the first amendment and a good pounding out of internet law. I think the precidences set by winning a case like this will be beneficial to all of us.
On thing though... I jokingly mentioned to other defendants that I might attend this trial in a Metalica T-shirt with spiked up hair. That's what we call a bad idea. It's dress up day. We all need to look, hrmm, somewhat "professional". Remember, we're talking to a bunch of suits here.
Please, come if you can. Your presence will be felt by the judge, the plaintif, and us frightened (angry?) defendants. Hopefully we can really change some attitudes about open source here.
Amusing (Score:4)
Movie makers trying to turn it around? (Score:4)
(Start of article)
"Norwegian" DVD bomb a minor incident
First Hollywood postponed releasing new DVDs. Then several DVD-manufacturers filed against a group of hackers, among them a 16-year old Norwegian. But now Hollywood doesn't care that the DVD-codes are broken.
When 16-year old Jon Johansen and the rest of a hacker group found the codes necessary to copy DVD movies and distribute them on the Internet, it created a riot in the film industry.
To trial...
Several manufacturers postponed the release of both discs and new players to find new ways to encrypt them. The companies filed suit against the 16-year old and the rest of the group that took part in the production and distribution of the software, without gaining ground.
Johansen removed the link to the software from his home page, by his own saying because he didn't have time or resources to fight.
As expected...
Now the large movie studios in Hollywood say the software that removes the copy protection is a minor thing.
- We expected the protection code to be broken sooner or later. We were actually surprised that it took so long, says vice president of Warner Home Video, James Cardwell, to CNN.
- There is little or no gain in hacking our products. Blank DVDs cost more than our already made discs, and it takes hours to download the movies over the Internet, claims Cardwell.
DeCSS...
DeCSS is the name of the software that makes it possible to copy the discs directly from a DVD-ROM player to a computer's harddrive. the DVDs have a capacity of 4,7GB, which makes it impossible to copy it to a regular CD. Other software also available on the 'net makes it possible to alter the DVD-files to a regular CD format.
Since the VHS format for VCRs was launched, movie piracy has been a huge problem for the movie companies. They hoped that DVD would finally end this. Now it's clear that copying DVDs is as easy as copying regular videotapes.
(End of article)
Besides the usual mistakes about what this is all about, it seems that the movie industry is now trying to calm things down, turning around a bit. Trying to calm down the fire, maybe?
DVD Piracy and Region Coding (Score:2)
Dispite Singapores touch love law enforcement there is little done about this. I think it has to do with the fact that the cost of making and packaging a pressed DVD in volume is USD$2-3, that 800% mark up just doesn't sit right.
As far as region codes I saw that at most places in Singapore would put a mod in your DVD player that will allow you to play whatever you wanted to for about S$100 (USD$50).
Re:Easier said than done (Score:3)
Another reason I am holding off is that the local video rental stores around here have a couple dozen titles on DVD. They carry a few thousand titles on VHS. They also charge more for a DVD rental than for a new-release VHS rental. Until the selection on DVD gets better and the price comes into line, I am not that interested.
BTW, with no VCR, how do you record something off broadcast/cable/sattelite if you want to watch it later? Until DVD's are a read/write medium, they aren't really a replacement for a VCR.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
the DeCSS docs suggest it's all in software (Score:1)
the DeCSS docs suggest it's all in software (Score:1)
Re:DVD CCA & Press (Score:1)
James
Recording? (Score:1)
Seriously, though, I don't watch a whole lot of TV ('cept for Comedy Central - and they rerun things a lot) so I don't ever record anything. If there is something that I really want to see, I make sure I see it. If I have something more important to do - C'est la vie!
kwsNI
Didn't we already fight this court battle once? (Score:4)
That is when the software companies sued a few companies that were making archival copies of software. The judge in that case said that people can make copies of software for archival purposes. And that customers were allowed to defeat anti-copy measures that the manufacturer had installed on the media (floppy disks at the time.)
The case was a joke then and it is a joke now. The manufacturers what us to goto them for the hardware and software that are needed to play their movies. I bet that if the players didn't have this encryption scheme that they would be less than $75 right now.
So what somebody has broken the encrytion scheme. If they didn't want someone to do this they should have _patented_ the technology. Now they are whining in court that someone in Norway is giving away their trade secrets.
Well BooHoo, that person never signed an agreement with the companies that he wouldn't give away trade secrets. If that person had been an employee of the company then this argument would make a lot of sense.
Now they are claiming that all of us had agreed to not reverse engineer the software because of the shrink wrap agreement that comes with every player. I am so glad someone is finally trying to sue someone over shrink wrapped licenses. This will expose them for the sham that they are.
I don't agree to any contract that I haven't signed. Especially one that I don't even see until after I have already purchased something. Especially when these agreements effectively say that I can't do anything to the company if their product causes me harm and that the product isn't actually suitable for anything. And that I don't really own the product that I am holding in my hand and that I had just paid my good hard dollars for.
Of course I can sue the software company if I use their product in the way that it was marketed and it causes me harm. Of course I own the product and all of its bits if I paid money for it. And I own all the little bits on my own computer.
I will be so glad when the judge throws out the shrink wrap agreements for the sham that they are.
thermite (Score:2)
The optimal mixture is to turn the aluminum and iron oxide into a fine dust and mix it 1:1. The combustion, at about 20 feet, is enough to vaporize carbon-steel. It will also weld things to pavement (and leave ugly warping). If you ever wanted to fake a martian landing, this is how you do it. Don't put it on any pavement you value, and keep it atleast 150-200 feet away from anything valuable. It is not explosive, but it burns incredibly hot. The goggles are a Good Thing(tm) too - don't forget them.
Re:Why? (Score:1)
Real pirates don't use DVD-ROMs. They stamp aluminium disks, much like legitimate publishers.
Moderate this down (-1, 0xFFFFFFFF)
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Re:Movie makers trying to turn it around? (Score:1)
The movie industry just did a business analysis of the issue. This will not effect their bottom line one bit. Going to court and fighting (and probalby losing) will hit the bottom line.
It comes down to this: Why would anyone copy a DVD to a video tape? Great quality to poor quality. The video is probably available in stores anyway.
Or, who would put a whole DVD on a hard drive? Space is cheap, but, HD's aren't that portable, not to mention trying to download that much data.
$$$ is the real issue and the movie industry isn't going to waste it on lawyers. The possible returns from winning are not equal to the lost revenue that would happen if they wait to issue more movies.
Re:CNN (Score:1)
Hackers can make a lot of headway in reverse engineering DVD's, but all it takes is a good stiff wind to make all their efforts for naught.
The courts can go either way, in my opinion. There is no telling. I think that it could be surprising, like instead of allowing reverse engineering by the general public, perhapse the courts would require the DVD manufacturers to write drivers for non Windows operating systems.
Re:Why? (Score:1)
It's true...I can't deny it. I may invest in some after I have a player though
numb
You can't really stop copying (Score:1)
As long as it gets sent to a normal telly/monitor and normal speakers you can NEVER even make it difficult to copy. You just put the RF signal into a VCR/soundcard/video card or whatever.
I was thinking about having the speaker and player in one sealed box with no headphone socket etc. That would decrease the quality of the copy anyway.
Basically, If you eyes can see it and you're ears can hear it, the copying will be done - and is legal! As long as you own a copy of the film in some format you are allowed (last time I checked) to copy it to others formats for your own use.
Re:DVD CCA & Press (Score:1)
Re:What is this? Warm up the masses? (Score:1)
Thanks for coming out, Chief.
Re:DVD CCA & Press (Score:1)
Second, I think they are also courting public opinion in order to garner favorable attention for their lobbying efforts in Washington. Even if they lose the case, they will try to get the law changed so that they don't lose the next case. Favorable publicity will help them.
Open letter to the DVD CCA (Score:5)
I wish to inquire of you how I may return my extensive collection of DVD movies I
have acquired over the past year. I no longer wish to possess them, despite their
vastly superior quality, number of options, and other market-changing,
market-creating attributes. I wish full refund of my movies, less a reasonable fee
collected because I have viewed them a few times each.
You see; I feel I can no longer, in good conscience as a law-abiding American
citizen view these wondrous disks legally on my computer system. Though I
bought or was given as a gift each DVD legally, as well as own legal copies of the
DVD hardware and decoding software from my computer manufacturer, I have
installed two components onto my computer since it was purchased that, I fear,
jeopardize the legality of viewing DVDs on it.
Most relevant, I possess a copy of deCSS, the program you are undoubtedly
familiar with that allows users to copy DVD movies from their handy DVD-ROM
disk into unwieldy, 6+ gigabtye files on their hard drives. I downloaded this
software in the hopes that it would enable me to view my copy of The Matrix more
fully, or enjoy DVD movies with fewer problems due to disk access errors. It has
proved far to cumbersome, however (I only have 3 gigabytes of free space, which
are rapidly becoming full with MP3s from MP3.com and from my own CD
collection (MP3s don't skip during dancing at parties, you see).
But furthermore, I have followed the slow progression of the production of a
reliable and hardware-independent Linux/*nix DVD Player. The other component
I have modified my computer with, you see, is a secondary hard drive from which
I can boot the Linux operating system instead of Windows. Ideally, I would like to
use Linux as my primary operating system.
Your recent letter to the LiVid (DVD for Linux) developers and the creative
programmers who released deCSS, however, has me concerned. It seems that
there is no possibility that any development in a Linux DVD player would be, by
your definition, using secret technologies via reverse engineering, despite the fact
that the CSS technique was not patented. I fear that because I wish to view DVDs
on Linux, and that any Linux implementation would be illegal, that I can no longer
in good conscience view DVDs on any Operating System running on my
computer-it is, after all, the same computer which could view them illegally in one
OS, so how could viewing the same DVD in the other OS be possibly legal? What
if I upgraded my Linux partition one day after a DVD solution had been reached,
possibly 'illegally', and accidentally entered into Linux, failed to recognize the
difference, and played a DVD of mine? I would fear that the police would be
knocking at my door instantaneously, and this time they wouldn't be asking me to
turn down my music (or which Jazz singer that was, anyway?). Having no recourse
to achieve my fair-use of the DVDs which I have purchased without entering into a
legal gray-area, I wish to return my discs and receive refunds for them.
Please indicate the shipping address to which they should be mailed, and when I
should expect reimbursement of their cost and the rather large cost of shipping my
substantial investment into what I had hoped would be a brave new world of
theatrical experiences.
Regretfully,
Does this make pirating impractical? (Score:3)
that it is because the sector is burnt out on blank media.
Interesting... Does this mean you cannot create a DVD that is playable in an umodified player without specially prepared media?
If this is the case, then cracking the DVD encryption scheme would only make it possible to play a movie, or to copy it to a hard drive. You would not be able to burn a DVD that was playable in a DVD player, only other DeCSS based software players.
Support DeCSS with a gif banner!! (Score:1)
read the brief! (Score:1)
--G
Re:How does copy protection help? (Score:1)
Moreover, people will immediatly know that what they have is not the original and most will recognize that copy isn't of as high a quality as the original.
Contrast that with DVD's and their digitalness, where one of the entire points of digital audio and video is that it doesn't degrade with copies or with time. That point has itself been pushed by the industry, to the point where consumers will know or need very little reminding that a duplicate of a DVD is just as good as the original...
I think we're missing the point. (Score:2)
I think the real aim of the DVD CCA is to control piracy of the movie industry, not of an individual movie. To explain: If I dupe a DVD I can cheat some distribution company like Columbia or TriStar out of $20 in profits. But if I, as an independant filmmaker release my own DVD disc, I've cut them out of what could possibly be millions in revenues. DVDs, MP3s, CDRs the internet and a few other technologies allow content producers to completely and totally circumvent distributors.
If I was a distributor, I think this would scare me, badly.
What I think the DVD CCA is trying to do is to make DVDs difficult to produce. Can I produce a new movie and burn it to a DVD RAM? Probably. Will that play properly in a commercial DVD player? I don't know - but I doubt it.
Re:How does copy protection help? (Score:2)
2) The purpose of the codes is not to tell the writer not to write it.. the writer can write all it wants.. the purpose of the codes is that, without these codes, you cannot decode the mpeg data to watch the movie.
IN more detail...
a) Each movie (title) is encrypted with a unique title key.
b) The title key is then encrypted, 40 different ways with 40 different player keys (it's not exactly 40.. but I forget how many). These encrypted keys are stored in a table in a special area of the disc.
c) Each DVD player is assigned a player key, and told what offset their key is at.
d) When playing, the player looks up it's assigned position in the key table, decodes the key (giving it the title key) and plays the movie.
Re:DVD CCA & Press (Score:2)
Re:thermite (Score:2)
A block of magnesium of course cannot be lit, any more than a block of aluminum. The key is having enough surface area exposed relative to the mass of metal; a fine powder is probably best. I have a small pocket fire starter that consists of an magnesium block with a steel bar on one edge. You shave off some magnesium with your pocket knife and strike the bar with your knife to get a spark. It even works in the rain.
You can even burn fine steel wool, although it is not self sustaining by itself without a blower.
Re:How does copy protection help? (Score:1)
Linked off the http://www.opendvd.org 's press coverage.
Re:Ambiguous language (Score:1)
:)
Re:DVD CCA & Press (Score:1)
1. Obviously no one can be totally impartial. However, the DVD CCA has an uphill battle for a few reasons (I'm sure these have been #ed out before):
A. Case Law - By this I mean the whole VCR legal battle (Sony v Universal, I believe), where the judge ruled that VCRs with recording capability would not aid in the violation of copyrights. EFF also lists "Sega v Accolade" and "Chicago Lock v Fanberg" to back up their claim.
B. The Trade Secret Argument - The only protection under law that Trade Secrets have is their "improper" disclosure. This generally means a disgruntled (ex-)employee. Reverse Engineering is a viable (and some would argue the only) method of finding out a Trade Secret.
C. The Constitution - Free Speech and Free Press.
2. EToys worked NSI, not the public. NSI doesn't give a hoot what the public thinks. Still, much can be learned from Etoy's defense.
3. I have many problems with your arguments here:
A. I don't see how an "unpopular DeCSS" would affect (or is it effect, grammarians?) the judge's decision. I would lean towards the MPAA's attitude having more sway as they are the content providers. Even so, it should be enough to show that DeCSS (like the VCR) is useful to consumers because it allows them to access already purchased DVDs under the widely accepted "fair use" of copyrighted materials.
B. The algorithm/software/hardware would not fall under "Trademark" (this is reserved for words, such as "Xerox", "Kodak", etc.). DVD CCA would have a case if the encryption scheme were patented as a patent confirs exclusive ownership. DVD CCA has no patent. The most they can claim is trade secret or copyright. Since this was reverse engineered, the copyright argument fails (i.e. the Norwegian did not copy DVD code). See above for why Trade Secret should fail.
This is not to say the case is not important; it is tremedously important in the precedent that it sets. I expect the defense to win. It should be an easy fight (IMO), especially with the aid of the FSF (or is it EFF?), but the defense should fight as though it is a hopeless cause. Bring out all the tricks, I say. Furthermore, with the TRO motion denied, DVD CCA has a tough battle ahead of them.
I'd sure like to see the defense counter-sue for a frivolous lawsuit. I hope eToy does as much against eToys.
I cannot agree with your "[l]aws be damned, history has shown that public opinion often decides cases" statement. The courts have numerous "unpopular" decisions to their credit. Look at Larry Flynt, Brown v Board, Rosa Parks, etc.
Cheers,
Slak
Marketplace knows what's up (Score:1)
Make The Judge Ask The Right Questions (Score:2)
A named defendant speaks! The pre-trial rally... (Score:1)
Come show your support of this cause. We want the judge to understand how much people/consumers care about this case. But dress appropriately.
We're trying to show the judge that we are not a bunch of copyright-infringing, trade-secret stealing hooligans.
Nice clothes go a long way to help prove this point.
The hearing is at 1:30pm on the 18th... see you there! Be sure to bring floppies and print outs of the source
-- Andrew Bunner
Re:Didn't we already fight this court battle once? (Score:1)
Patenting requires public disclosure of the algorithm. I doubt such a patent would hold up in court for long.
Re:CNN (Score:2)
Re:Ambiguous language (Score:1)
Maybe, but I'm not.
"Nothing but aluminum wire in aglass&plastic envelope, and man! were those suckers bright. Nothing, and I mean nothing burns like aluminum
in oxygen."
I seem to remember the ball of wire in old flash bulbs being Magnesium. I would dare say Magnesium burns a whole heckofalot better than aluminum.
An any case, the aluminum layer in a CD is very thin and the plastic burns quite well once it's started.
Re:Amusing (Score:2)
Re:thermite (Score:1)
Yes you can. You just have to make sure that the sulphur is still burning whilst you hold it to the Mg ribbon. I used to wind the Mg ribbon around a couple of match heads, then hold a match to that. You can also light Mg ribbon with a cigarette lighter, too - the trick is to make a few tears in the end you're trying to light, and hold the Mg right at the hottest part of the flame. Catalytic lighters rock, too!
Strong data typing is for those with weak minds.
Is CSS really mandatory? (Score:1)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK almost no DVDs (the "big company" DVDs, like Warner's and such, being the exception) available in Austria and Germany employ the CSS "protection" scheme... still, the discs play fine in every (region 2) player - so I guess it would be viable to just write the movies back to DVD unencrypted.
Then again, I guess there's some other information in that "hidden" sector (region code?) that might prevent the disc from being played on a regular DVD player... (but not neccessarily on a computer; the player software still has to go through the operating system... =)
Anyone know more about this?
np: Gas - Track 1 (Königsforst)
As always under permanent deconstruction.
Re:DVD CCA & Press (Score:1)
In practice most of the mass press is owned by media congolmerates which include film studios. If the studio's lawyers want the press to push one side of a story rather than the other I would expect that the press will blindly follow.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:thermite (Score:1)
Re:Easier said than done (Score:1)
DVD isn't intended to replace VCRs much the same way an audio CD was never intended to replace a cassette deck.
Re:CNN (Score:1)
Re:CNN (Score:1)
Actually several strong cases. Argument 1: code is speech (site Bernstein), California law (this is a California court, not a federal court) specifically takes a dim view to prior restraint on speech.
Argument 2: objections to the trade secret case made in the pleadings. Several key objections to the DVD CCA's central claim (improper misappropriation of trade secrets) are presented. There is no evidence presented that the reverse engineers ever agreed to a license agreenment. Even if they did, if it was reverse engineered in Norway, Norwegian law specifically allows for reverse engineering for the purpose of interoperability. Several sources were quoted that provided key pieces of information to the DeCSS effort. One was an anonymous poster to the livid-dev list. The weakness of the encryption only made it a matter of time before the keys were exposed. The trade secret case is a weak one even if it didn't involve prior restraint on speech.
Re:Let's hit them where it hurts! (Score:1)
It's cloning not piracy (Score:1)
The deCSS software is quite analogous. It's purpose is not piracy but to clone the software which plays DVD's. This is necessary for Linux since there is no alternative, but is completely justified for purely commercial purposes.
Re:How does copy protection help? (Score:1)
Re:How does copy protection help? (Score:1)
Re:Does this make pirating impractical? (Score:1)
A cautionary tale (Score:4)
I've been working on new and interesting ways to almost kill myself.
As you may or may not know, I have this passing interest in metalworking. I've always wanted to build a rocket to the moon, and I figure that I'll need to know how to weld, cast and machine metal to do it. So I built a small foundry, according to a series of books entitled "Build Your Own Machine Shop From Scrap". Book one is "The Charcoal Foundry". Which I built. It's low-capacity; I can cast about a quart of molten aluminum. (Albeit poorly.)
Anyhow, back when I lived in Oklahoma, I bought a whole bunch of scrap aluminum from my welding instructor. (8 or 9 VW Bug transmission housings) And I also picked up some other large castings from work (IBM 3390 disk-pack housings) that were being thrown out.
These pieces are too large to fit in my tiny little crucible, so I would smash them to bits with a sledgehammer. But parts of the scrap were too heavy to be smashed, no matter how hard I tried. There was a paragraph about this in the foundry book, that suggested building a fire around any castings that were too heavy to smash with a sledge, and heating them till they were soft. I decided to try this.
So, last night, I crept down the road in the inky blackness to an abandoned barn that's slowly succumbing to the Mississippi foliage and has a large pile of broken timbers. I dragged the wood out to the road, and came back for it with the truck. Then I built a bonfire of the dry timbers, interspersed with VW transmission housings and 3390 disk pack cases. Lacking somewhere better, I built the fire on the 12x12 concrete pad that forms my back patio.
I was moderately safety conscious. I built the pile as far from the house as I could (which wasn't very far). I took the propane tank out of my grill and moved it to the other side of the house. I had the garden hose pouring water continuously into the grass. I had my kitchen fire extinguisher and welding gloves near at hand. Thus prepared, I lit the fire.
It took a while for the fire to catch. I was concerned that the pile had too many castings and not enough wood, and that the fire wouldn't spread all the way around. But eventually it was getting pretty hot, and I could break up some of the smaller castings with a light blow from a steel bar.
So I pulled out the big guns, and tried to hit one of the large castings with the sledgehammer. It broke, but it also sparked and sputtered and caught on fire. The metal was on fire. When metal burns, it has a flame that's quite distinctive from a wood flame. Wood burns yellow and red; metal burns white-hot like a welder's spark. I could definitely tell that there was a metal fire at the base of my bonfire.
Now, I knew that magnesium will burn, and titanium too. I knew that sodium and potassium will burn in water. I didn't know that aluminum would burn. I never really considered that the castings would ignite. Perhaps aluminum needs to be a magnesium alloy to support combustion. I don't know. Whatever it was, it was burning.
Metal fires are tremendously hotter than wood fires, which caused the rest of the pile to rapidly ignite from a nice controlled bonfire, to what I can only describe as a raging inferno from the depths of hell. Oh shit. So I grabbed the already-running garden hose and I tried to put the fire out. Unfortunately, this typically made things worse. Metal burns so hot that when water touches it, the water vaporizes explosively, showering the area with molten, burning metal droplets. The rate at which metal burns is limited by its surface area, and breaking up a molten metal glob by pouring water on it accelerates the process.
So I grabbed the chemical fire extinguisher and tried to use that. Which worked, somewhat. But a small kitchen fire extinguisher has about 4 seconds worth of charge in it, and did not appreciably diminish the fire before it coughed and ran empty. Ah, shit.
Fires, as I recall, are categorized into four classes: A, B, C, and D. I was planning on having a Class-A fire: paper and wood. Class B is an oil or grease fire; Class C is an electrical fire. But what I really had was the worst of all: Class D, a metal fire. They make special fire extinguishers for Class D fires. Unfortunately, I didn't have one.
At this point, the flames were shooting up about 15 feet into the sky. Every so often, the pieces of burning aluminum would pop, throwing sparks and metal droplets everywhere. To complete the scene, also note that I had the stereo turned up inside the house, so as you visualize it, remember that BB King is wailing in the background.
I did what I could. I had a big steel pole that I used to knock the fire apart, to dissipate the heat. I used the hose carefully to try to cool the fire down. I wore the welding gloves and dragged the burning timbers away from the fire where I could safely douse the wood with the hose.
People stopped by and offered to help. They had seen the sparks and flames from the road, shooting above the house. They offered to call the fire department, an offer that a wise man would have readily accepted. But if I were a wise man, I wouldn't have done this in the first place, now would I?
So I asked them to standby on the offer to call the fire department, and said I thought I was getting it under control. I was basically wrong, since the worst explosions, the ones that shot molten metal directly at the house, were still yet to come. But the fire was quieting down somewhat.
(The house is brick. But the roof is not.)
The problem that I had was that there was no obvious way to finish putting out the fire. I removed pretty much all the burning wood from the fire, and separated the metal fire into smaller fires, but how to put out the burning aluminum? All I had was water and a steel pole, neither of which really seemed to help. In hindsight, I also had a shovel nearby, which probably would have been the best tool. Hindsight is a marvelous thing, no?
So, with a combination of patience (just letting the metal burn itself out), and cautious, gentle spraying with the hose, I got the fire out. In the end, no damage to the house, no serious injuries. My patio is a mess, my fingers are a little singed. (I later discovered that the concrete under the fire was destroyed to a depth of 3-4 inches.) My scrap metal supply is largely vaporized. I have a large new supply of humility, and a moderately good story.
I'm sure there's some deep lesson in this cautionary tale, but I'm not precisely sure what it is. I guess the big lesson is that aluminum burns. Forget that they make engine blocks and piston heads from the stuff. It burns, I know.
Steeltoe (Score:2)
---
By Purchasing or Using this Product you agree on the following EULA (End User License Agreement):
1) We own all physical- and non-physical material and accompanying documentation of the Product, in all its forms and shapes. You may not alter, copy, resell or redistribute it in any way. We own it, not you.
2) We own your hands. You may not misuse or exploit weaknesses in the Product. All operations documented in the Users Manual must be followed in the exact sequence they were written. We have provided a safety feature for the Product if malicious breaches are detected (See section 7).
3) We own your social life. The Product is licensed to the First Time User(tm). To use the product, this User must Register and Submit all personal information to the Company. The License is personal to that User only and may not be overdrawn to someone else, not even your Dog or Fiancee. Only a Licensed User may operate the Product. Unregistered viewers is allowed view the contents by paying a double fee per session to the Company.
4) We own your wiring and privacy. The Product must stay On-Line with an Internet connection to the Company at all times so the Credit Card Transactions can work seamlessly. The Company reserves every right to control and inspect the Product remotely. The user must place the Product in the middle of the room uncovered.
5) We own your eyes and thoughts. You may not derive ideas or concepts about the Product's design, functionality or structure. The contents it provides you through normal operation is owned by each copyright holder under their own License. The Company reserves the right to upload blocks for content providers we find unsuitable.
6) We own your mouth. You may not critizise the Product in any form or forum, as all such information is owned by the Company. Every single review and article concerning the Product must be officially edited and accepted by the Company before going to print.
7) You may not use the Product after its expiration date. For your convinience a 7.2Kg TNT explosive is included free of charge which will automatically blow up our Package, so there's no need worrying about dates. Upgrades may be bought to delay the expiration date, but every Registered User is encouraged to Purchase new releases as they will most certainly be backwards-incompatible.
8) Every Registered User have an obligation to report all violations of this EULA they encounter to the Company. Failing to do so is in turn considered an even graver violation.
9) ALL VIOLATIONS OF THIS EULA IS CONSIDERED BREAKING FEDERAL LAW AND WILL BE PROSECUTED TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT OF THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(These !!'s should REALLY make it clear once and for all..)
9) REMEMBER, SOME STATES STILL HAVE THE DEATH PENALTY. IF YOU ARE A NON-US CITIZEN, WE CAN DEAL WITH THE PAPERWORK AND PAY FOR THE ONE-WAY TRIP TO USA.
---
Good luck with your futures.
- Steeltoe
Re:Easier said than done (Score:2)
Regardless of whether DVD was intended to replace VCRs, once a suitable writable/rewritable media comes out for the format they will be capable of doing so. The same thing is true of audio CD's, while they were intended to replace vinyl records and not audio cassettes, once a writable/rewritable media came out, they are now capable of replacing cassettes. While I still have cassette decks, I haven't used one in a long time. I find it preferablee to use CD-R for the things I used to use cassettes for.
Re:Let's make a clear statement (Score:2)
Personally, I'm not even trying to make a political statement. I don't like to have my computer crash, and I need to be able to tailor my environment to unusual uses. I have seen that a good system administrator who knows what he's doing can reduce the number of Windows crashes significantly. I don't want to have to spend that kind of time on my home machine working around a poor default configuration.
But the issue of being able to tailor the system to something unusual is more important. First, I have to have support for the latin-3 character set. Oops, it isn't popular. Try finding fonts for it on the Web some time and you'll see what I mean. Second, as far as I'm concerned, any tool that doesn't let me automate the things I do repeatedly is wasting my time. I edit with Emacs, and there is no one else on the planet with anything close to my key bindings.
Re:Easier said than done (Score:1)
I don't trust that the motion picture companies won't abandon current generation DVD players and/or format in order to get around the problem of CSS being broken.
I think that, obviously, they'll invent a new way to get past this hurdle. DVD-NG (or whatever) players, will then also have to be backwards-compatible to service all the current DVDs in circulation: Just the other day I read about the huge increase in DVD sales in '99...
Thing is - not even the current issues with CD-ROM / Playstation / et al CD copying have not even been sorted out... There exists, as to my knowledge, no really effective way to protect CD-ROM-based games from being copied. The software has to decide "Is this copied, yes or no?", and there is the weak link - just patch it, and voila. To the same extent was getting past DVD region codes "just a hack" away. Nowadays, however, it seems regionless DVD-ROMs are becoming scarcer and scarcer...
The point that I'm trying to make is this: Is there a really effective and unbreakable way to protect digital data meant for public consumption? Sure, you can encrypt something for private (read: limited distribution) use, but as soon as the public factor comes into play, you have a problem.
Love any comments...
Re: Press relations (Score:1)
Obviously CNN and ABC et al aren't feeling the need to troll Slashdot themselves for this story.
Re:Make The Judge Ask The Right Questions (Score:1)
The only thing DeCSS allows people to do is to create new content that can be played in any DVD. It won't limit piracy. It won't limit imports of DVDs across zones.
DeCSS allows independant filmmakers to easily distribute their productions. Without going through a distribution company.
Re:How does copy protection help? (Score:1)
"DVD, with its dramatically increased storage capacity, is expected to drive a revolution in multimedia software applications and movies. However, motion picture owners have been reluctant to embrace this exciting new medium until reasonable steps to deter casual home copying are in place. The studios have been concerned that the quality and reproducibility of the DVD may result in innumerable illegal copies being made by casual home users, leading to a loss of revenue."
This is from a document by MICHAEL MORADZADEH who is senior counsel for Intel in a document called "LICENSING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE CSS DVD COPY PROTECTION METHOD". Reading more of the document it becomes clear this was meant as a technical fait accompli to overcome the court's propensity to allow the consumer "fair use" which apparently drives the studios crazy. Looked at from a position closer to theirs it might be stated they are prepared to deal with piracy that is economically motivated but not with casual copying.
Retaliation, in style (Score:1)
You can:
1. Give away or sell at a very low price your DVD players on those forsale newsgroups.
2. Set up web sites that describes the many disadvantages of DVD (and not mentiong any advantage), using words as negative as possible while making it sound unbiased.
3. Tell everyone you know that DVD is not the way to go, and it is like DIVX in a lot of ways, and how VHS is superior to it.
Re:Dress up day (Score:1)
I'd be insterested in knowing what the plaintiff's reaction was(and will be) to the sheer number of supporters that showed up. Were they visibly uncomfortable, or just caught off-guard? ;)
Re:Movie makers trying to turn it around? (Score:1)
That's deffinately not right. Commercial DVDs hold much more that that--the Matrix is around 7 gigs. I think they're confusing the commercial dual-layer discs with the crappy consumer single-layer ones.
Re:thermite (Score:2)
As for lighting Mg with a match, all I can say is "been there, done that."
Deservedly angry defendants (Score:2)
I think that several of your codefendants have reason to be very angry. Contained in this page [eff.org], I found a deposition by Harvey Shapiro, one of the plaintiff's weasel^H^H^H^H^H^Hlawyers, in which nearly every defendant (but not you, I see) is described as having "offered to sell unauthorized DVD copies of my clients' motion pictures".
One such site so described was http://openprojects.net where the Livid CVS and developers list archive were hosted. Now I've read nearly every post to that list since sometime in October and I've never seen anyone offer to sell any copyrighted material. I wonder if someone making a false accusation of this sort constitutes slander or libel.
Re:Encryption != copy protection (Score:2)
B-A-L-O-N-E-Y is what an unenlightened person spouts forth when there are better alternatives. Examples of better alternatives are not claiming that DVD decryption is being used for purposes of piracy, and not trying to correct someone who does in fact know the difference between bologna of the awful-excuse-for-lunchmeat variety and baloney of the you-don't-know-what-you're-talking-about variety.
--
Getting up to speed on this issue (Score:2)
On a related note, SDMI, which exists solely to manage copy protection for music, managed to let the certificate expire on their secure web server. Remember, these guys want to manage the keys to all the audio content in the world. Here's their current certificate:
This Certificate belongs to:
www.sdmi.org
EMS
Global Integrity
La Jolla, California, US
This Certificate was issued by:
Secure Server Certification Authority
RSA Data Security, Inc.
US
Serial Number: 1D:37:FE:F6:B9:A4:C0:91:41:B1:F9:D7:1C:43:A2:A4
This Certificate is valid from Wed Jan 06, 1999 to Fri Jan 07, 2000
Certificate Fingerprint: DF:EE:C6:82:A9:E2:8E:27:91:5F:8E:ED:6D:06:0D:FB
Re:Deservedly angry defendants (Score:2)
* If the Motion Picture Association (MPA) made the accusations, and Mr. Shapiro was simply sending out cese-and-desist letters, the MPA would be liable for slander or libel, but Mr. Shapiro wouldn't.
-but-
* If Mr. Shapiro made the accusations, then he would be liable.
From the following passages on the site [eff.org] you mentioned;
3. On or about October 25, 1999, I began to receive information from the MPA that unauthorized DVD copies of its members' motion pictures, and instructions and computer applications to defeat DVD encryption, were available at specific web sites on the Internet. Beginning on or about November 4th, 1999, I (or employees of my firm acting at my direction) sent letters to Internet service providers, system administrators and others, informing the recipients that this unauthorized material was found at a specific web site address or addresses over which they exercised control. I asked them to provide me with the identity of the web site's content provider(s), and to take action to stop the infringing activity.
4. I sent out three types of form letters, depending on (i) the type of infringing activity and (ii) the action I requested the recipient take to stop the infringing activity. These letters are appended as Exhibit A. In the first type of form letter, I notified the recipient that the person responsible for the web site apparently was offering both pirated DVDs and unauthorized decryption technology. I requested that the recipient cease and desist from infringing MPA members' copyrights. In the second type of form letter, I notified the recipient that the person responsible for the web site was offering both pirated DVDs and unauthorized decryption technology. In this letter, I requested (i) that the individual's account be terminated; (ii) that further action be taken to stop the infringing activity; and (iii) that I be provided with the account operator's name and physical address. In the third type of letter, I notified the recipient that I believed the person responsible for the web site was offering CSS decryption technology, "links" to web sites which provided such technology, and/or CSS authorizing CVS code. I requested that (i) the individual's account be terminated, and (ii) that I be provided with the account operator's name and address.
It looks to me that Mr.Shapiro made a big mistake, one that could make him liable for slander, libal, or both.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that slander is spoken, libel is written, and the burden is on the accuser to prove that the accusations are true. I also think that it's the accusie's responcabilty to prove that the accusations were made with harmful intent.
My $0.02...Any lawyers out there?
Re:Amusing (Score:2)
The fact that a huge number of people have modded their PSXs to play CD-Rs does tend to get forgotten - just like the fact that you can bit-for-bit copy DVDs without any of the latest software devolpments.
This lawsuit is just a nusance/bandaid effort. The DVD CCA probably thought this would be a simple matter where they made an example of a bunch of hacker/pirates - they picked the wrong fight.