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Uruguayan SuSE Reseller Trying to Trademark Linux 201

Posted by Hemos from the bad-bad-idea dept.
Ysidoro writes "With No. 316.081 of August 30, 1999 has been filed before the Uruguayan Trademark Office a trademark application for registration of the LINUX name to International class 42 (computer related services). This application has been filed by Mr. Francisco Pereira and Mr. Enrique Place de Cuadro, of Montevideo, Uruguay. In accordance with the official publication from the Industrial Property Bulletin No. 6 of December 1999. See the open letter writed by a group of Uruguayan Linux users. "
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Uruguayan SuSE Reseller Trying to Trademark Linux More

Uruguayan SuSE Reseller Trying to Trademark Linux

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  • Leave it to the market (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Whether or not Linus likes it, I doubt he'll be making any phone calls to the Uruguayan government. Linus is as fond of his liberty as anyone else (after years living in the shadow of Soviet aggression, wouldn't you be?) and is practically a libertarian.

    The Uruguayan government, on the other hand has an evil reputation for torture, imprisonment, repression and cutting the hands off (I MEAN IT!) Catholic priests. All, need I say, supported by Klinton, Janet Reno and the CIA. Are these the kind of people you want defending your trademark?

    If the market wants to buy Linux from the Uruguayan resaler then the market will decide that they are the right people, and nobody, not even Linus will have a right to use that name anymore. That's the difference between a natural monopoly, which is freely given by the market, and the usual, government supported monopoly like that enjoyed by the Postal Service. One of these has the full moral weight of a free market behind it, the other is the artificial, tyrannical imposition of a thieving traitorous criminal in the White House. If Klinton is happy to sell our national security to the Chinese so that we can't even defend our country, why should we expect his Uruguayan puppets to defend Linux?

    In short, leave it to the market, because the market is made up of people like you and me. If you don't like Uruguayan Linux, don't buy it! Myself, I'll buy it if I think it's the best product on offer. We have the liberty to disagree with each other (for the moment)
  • "With No. 316.081 of August 30, 1999 has been filed before the Uruguayan Trademark Office a trademark"

    * that sentence makes ABSOLUTELY no sense.

    It is ungrammatical, but the meaning is completely recoverable; thus' I'd say it does make sense. "has been filed" is a passive, and the only possible subject is "a trademark".

    This error apparently arises because Spanish allows freer word order than English. Look at the Spanish original sentence:

    Con el No. 316.081 ("with # 316,081") se presentó ("was presented") el 30 de agosto de 1999 ("the 30th of august of 1999") ante la Oficina de Marcas del Uruguay ("before the Office of Trademarks of Uruguay") la solicitud de registro de marca LINUX ("the application of trademark LINUX")

    "In accordance with the official publication from the Industrial Property Bulletin No. 6 of December 1999."

    * Wrong: this sentence has no subject or verb. It is an insubordinate clause...a fragment...it is wrong!

    Fragments like these occur in English texts. Stuff like: "Compliant with FCC regulations for Class B devices". This kind of thing is used when the referent is contextually clear.

    Though actually, in the original Spanish letter, there is a verb and a null subject:

    Según consta ("as it is seen", more or less) en la publicación oficial ("in the official publication") aparecida en el Boletín de la Propiedad Industrial No. 6 de Diciembre 1999 ("appeared in the Bulleting of Industrial Property #6 of December 1999").

    ---

  • Of course, I'll refrain from commenting on any legal abilities they may have, as I know precicely zero about Uruguayan law.

  • I don't know about other areas.

  • Yer so damn cool, I want to kneel at your feet and prostrate myself in adulation.

  • typical (Score:1)

    by drago ( 1334 )
    This is typical for SuSE, fitting into their general marketing strategy. Which in many points reminds me of that other company (tm) from Redmond.
  • ...and SuSE does not have any exclusive
    reseller for any country.

  • This isn't the first time this has come up.

    It would be nice if we could somehow get all the forms filed to get Linus's hold on Linux as a trademark in every country. At least those that have trademarks. It could be called something like the Linux Trademark Plan, with a domain such as linuxtm.org.

  • You appear to have figured out that Slashdot runs stories in a similar vein. A few weeks ago, someone congratulated themselves for noticing that Linux gets mentioned a lot. Now you've figured out that Trademarks and IP are an issue. Good for you.
  • Yes, but if your parents were Swedish, from Sweden, who emigrated to Canada, you would be of Swedish ethnicity and of Canadian nationality (Swedish-Canadian? :).

    I don't know if Linus is Swedish, but if he is, I guess he's a Swedish-Finn.

    Cheers.............
  • I wonder if Doug Adams could sue Altavista for stealing the babelfish concept.
  • You have never heard of Uruguay? Where did you go to school??? Probably, didn't which explains your confusion.

  • What IF they won? Seriously, do these guys realize what they could unleash upon themselves?

    First, one can imagine the unquantifiable amount of flame that LinuxTECH would receieve. Not only from the community, but from the media. Also, what would companies like Red Hat, SuSE, VA Linux Systems, and IBM think of this? I doubt they'd be very pleased about the situation at all.

    I'm sorry, but anyone else who tries to trademark Linux should be shot.

    Survivors should be shot again. Nuff said.
    --
  • The power of the market to decide who is best suited to serve people is all well and good when the market is Open. Looking at the letter though, this company is trying to obtain "exclusive rights" to the LINUX name and/or particular distributions. With legal protections, they are trying to obtain the help of the government to bludgen any competition, removing the ability of "the market" to move freely. In other words, "don't buy it" is no longer a viable option!
  • This could just be legal! Some countries (I know New Zealand (home) used to have the ability for only certain companies to import trademarked products.

    Thus Sony Music (NZ) held all rights to import Sony CDs into the country etc. Only The Levi Strauss Co. could import commercial quantities of Levi Jeans into the country.

    Then the law changed, so now (if I had $$) could go and buy bulk in places where product happens to be cheap, and import and resell at a profit by undercutting the original manufacturer.

    In being the only company able to import SUSE Linux into Uruguay, they may just have made a legal coup.

    But still, it's Linux. If you don't want to buy the 'Official' version, you have the freedom (for the GPLed portion) to copy someone elses (although it lacks some of the features of the original (like RH offer bundled support for official users..)

  • ...about the Switzerland's Roche trying to trademark "Linux" as a brand name for laundry detergent (see last month's Slashdot thread [slashdot.org].)

    Yet there seems to be great upset at the idea of applying it as a trademark for "computer related services." Not a trademark for "computer software," mind you, but as a trademark for something that might very well have absolutely nothing to do with software.

    Now, before you consider this to be puerile flamebait, I'll admit that I think it's rather rude to use the name "Linux" for any product. I think using it as a detergent name is just plain stupid (outside of Switzerland, where it's apparently an established detergent name); and I think using it in reference to anything remotely computer-related is dishonest.

    But, still... isn't it interesting where our buttons get pushed?

    It's cool to name your new toilet paper "Linux."

    But name your keyboard cleaning and repair company "Linux," and you'll burn in hell.

  • It's funny, laugh, dammit. =)
  • No.. I live here and I think thats pretty typical. Just becuase you consider yourself smarter does not mean that you are typical. However, I also believe that the average American plays dumb because it is cooler and more hip to do that...

    And, when you think Uruguay, just remember what Homer said: "U R Gay" and he was pointing at South America at the time...

  • Oh, don't get your panties in a bunch.

    We folks at SuSE are as respectful of the Linux trademark as the next guy. I'm sure some of our business folks will be chatting with them soon enough to find an agreeable solution to the problem. I'm sure that any solution agreeable to SuSE will include cessation of such silly antics.

    Have a good day.

  • As I said above, I for one find all attempts to register ANY trademark in an entirely farcical manner to be highly repugnant.

    Having personal (and corporate) interest in this Linux thing, it goes double for all those who attempt to trademark "Linux".. (especially now.. after it's pretty obviously a power grab).

    That said, I don't personally know my company (SuSE's) relationship with this firm, nor the exact details. I will be sure to mention it to Those Who Make Things Happen if it hasn't been done already.

  • And he spoke Swedish at home while growing up. About 10% of Finns do.
  • It depends on the country trade mark law. Some countries have explicit provisions that international trademarks, patents and copyright prevail. Some (US and France are such examples methink) do not.
  • Yep, it did say that they were the only retailer. That's why I think that something could be done about it rather easily, if we got together and bitched. Slashdot readers are good at bitching, eh? ;)
  • .ch is switzerland. This is the non-offensive linuxtech. Please moderate down, moderators! :)
  • First of all, would this trademark be valid in other parts of the world? What does International Class 42 mean?

    Also, I was under the impression that Linus had a trademark on the linux name. I might be mistaken, though.

    Since this company is taking actions that are not in the free software spirit, can we write SuSE to revoke this dealer's license and spread the love to other retailers?

    Also, what kind of effect could we have on the Uruguay(an?) government?

    Just some questions to get ya'll thinking.... hope there's some lawyers out there. Good ones like CmdrTaco and Hemos mentioned earlier today. :)
  • If you had read the letter, you'd have seen that IT'S IN ENGLISH ON THE RIGHT SIDE.
  • nt means No Text.
  • I said "fuck off guys" because I couldn't think of anything else that would express what I meant well enough. I thought fuck off would be ok in this sense, and yes I DID think about what I was saying before I posted it...I tried putting different things in instead of fuck off, but none of them really "fit".
  • I wonder if these companies do this for marketing stunts? Its kind of like telling telling the world something outrageous just to get attention.
  • Sure, but it is strange, their HTML is generated by a program from wml, running as _root_! Perheaps it is run by cron, but it's still a bit strange...


  • I wonder if these guys are related to LinuxOne in anyway.
    ----
    "War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left"
  • I don't think that calling themselves "LinuxTECH" is bad; I'm not sure why UYLUG cares about this. It sounds like an accurate description of what their venture is supposed to be.

    Whether or not it's fair to use www.linux.com.uy is something I'm not decided on. It's certainly legal, though.

    But I'm entirely in agreement that trying to trademark "Linux" is immoral and illegal. It would be like a car dealer trademarking "car"; it makes no sense.
    Good luck nipping this insanity in the bud, UYLUG.
  • So, as non-native English speakers they could:

    1. "get educated, mang!", i.e. become fluent in a foreighn language, a time-consuming and difficult process

    or

    2. Do the best they can now, which is obviously good enough since you understood the article, thus reaching a large audience of people who care about this issue and want to hear about it ASAP.

    I think they made the right choice, don't you?

  • Aye, it is.

    I left the end off because it changes from episode to episode. I changed the period to an ellipsis to make this clearer. And you know what? The slash code corrects all of my current comments that haven't gone static. Neat.
  • That is an excellent site with a short, succint definition of trademark and other terms we are all becoming too aware of lately. Thanks

    For the copy and past challenged, here is the hyperlink [adeco.com] .
  • but 'writed'? Writed!?!?!?!?! Vo Ist writed?!?!?!
    Why did you not choose 'written'? Is it a jab to over-zealous grammar nazi's such as myself?

    :)

    I'll attempt to seem on-topic:

    Well, that's the last Uraguayan linux distro that I'm ever going to buy.... *Hrumph*
  • Fresh from a successful salvage effort of somewhat torched space probe recently shot down by the Mars Air Force over the South Pole, Mr. Pthehq3 has recently decoded the software designed to control a concealed listening device attached to the probe. This concealed listening device is thought to be part of the well known Earth Spy Agency Project "Echelon".

    On examination of the software, Mr. Pthehq3 has filed a trademark application with the NMSPTO for the term Linux, and has additionally registered several domain names including linux.mars and linux.venus. Mr. Pthehq3 has stated that he will soon establish a web site for the free dissemination of the software under the MPL, Mars Public License.

  • we way we dont want to have "Stupid" law suits going on... so why do we post these things that only make the ignorant jump up and down in a circle. This isn't a problem... and I am sure Linus wont bat an eye at it. (Or should anyone else involved.)
  • >All, need I say, supported by Klinton, Janet Reno and the CIA.

    Could you give concrete examples of this support? And compare & contrast to the policies of the preceding Republican administrations?
  • I'd like to announce that I've received a trademark for the terms "computer" and "software", so I'll appreciate it if y'all will stop using them.

    Seriously, though, I once bought a roll of tape made by a company named MilSpec(tm). Heavy emphasis on the word once. Point being that anyone can apply for a trademark and maybe even get a particularly clueless clerk to issue it. Defending it - that is, getting others to not use it - is a whole different kind of issue.
    Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation
  • What is scary is that this could go through depending on if the GPL can be enforced in Uruguay or not.

    Just like in the USA, some licences, or parts of them, are valid in certain states and not in others. Uruguay might have some sort catch for foreign licenses making all or parts of them void. It could also be just a legal loop hole.

    Common sense should take over here, I don't care what legal catches you have, approving this trademark would be anti-smart.


  • I'm sorry, but anyone else who tries to trademark Linux should be shot.

    you are aware that Linus Torvlads owns the US copyright to the word "linux" right?

    "Suble Mind control? why do html buttons say submit?",

  • It's a Joke.... (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I think these guys are just trying to get us geeks back for laughing at that Simpsons where Homer called their country 'you-are-gay' ...
  • Did anyone from /. ask SuSE for a comment? I'd be interested to know where they stand on this.
  • Cuando llegue aquel día hipotético en que domine Vd un segundo idioma con la décima parte de la capabilidad vista en los autores cuyas obras--y cuya causa--ya discutimos, pues entonces tal vez podrá decir cuatro putas palabras sobre la buena ortografía. Pero ahora, ni se le ocurra. Vaya maleducado que es Vd que no se dé cuenta del respecto debido a estos estimados señores! Le aseguro que habrán traducido esta noticia no por su proprio beneficio, sino por Vd.

    s/capabilidad/capacidad/
    s/respecto/respeto/
    s/dé/da/ (not actually completely wrong, but sounds a bit strange)
    s/proprio/propio/

    There's other minor weird things here, but one comes specially to attention: the use of the formal pronouns ("usted", abbreviated "Vd", and associated verbal morphology) when insulting the addressee. It is usual to use the familiar form "tu" when insulting, specially when cuss words are used.

    Still, for a second-language speaker of Spanish, this gets an "A", I'd say ;-)

    ---


  • Hmmn. I'm not that familiar with SuSE's OS, but isn't it a violation of the various Free/Open Source licenses for them to grant exclusivity in distribution? I understand wanting control of the channel and all that, but don't they have to allow for redistribution of all of the free parts of their OS? And therefore they cannot say 'you have exclusive rights,' since that... well, EXCLUDES redistribution?

    The actual story, the trademark thing, that'll work itself out correctly. I'm more interested in this exclusivity subplot, and whether SuSE is willfully breaking license, or if this is a misunderstanding on someone's part (like mine, for instance), or what....

    --

  • If worst comes to worst, I think RedHat could buy Uruguay and the patent office themselves.
  • It appears that there may be some impropriety in the matter. Happily, the "exclusive supplier" in question, SuSE, operates in other places.

    Supposing the Uruguayan supplier is acting improperly, it would be a perfectly reasonable idea for Linux folk to "have a chat" with the nice folks at SuSE.

    If they are allowing suppliers to act improperly, then it might be proper to let SuSE know that this is not acceptable to people that aren't in Uruguay.

    For instance, if the situation is as suggested, it's reasonably likely that the local LUG may send a respectful letter to SuSE explaining how we might encourage members not to use SuSE's products.

  • I don't think it should be problem. They can have the exclusive rights to sell the Official Branded SuSE Box. (BTW: Is everything on the official SuSE CD under a free license? Or is it like older RH distros and includes some non-free stuff?) Other people should be able to make copies of the GPL/open source/free SuSE code, but marketing is a different issue. It's probably legally possible for SuSE to forbid other people to market products using their name. (Not that this would necessarily be a good idea.)

    --

  • I understand that many people believe vulgarity is automatic game for moderation, but I'd just like to add that I disagree. We're all humans, and expressing ourselves using vulgarity in a forum like this seems perfectly acceptable to me. I believe this because Slashdot discussions are more rough and truthful than they are professional and polite. On this basis, I agree that vulgarity is indeed acceptable if it's an effective way to get the point across. I think this was a good use of vulgarity. It surely struck a patriotic chord in my nerves :)

    </OFFTOPIC>
  • What I think they're worried about is that anyone else trying to sell anything with the "linux" name on it in their country will be banned. You'd have to call it something else. Unless you can wing enough power to force change, but that involves Big Corporations and Political Pressure.

  • Also what's interesting is the Dilbert comic at the bottom of that same page.

    The comic even has in it:
    "Redistribution in part or in whole is strictly prohibited"

    These guys just don't get it do they? =)
    --
  • I lived in Uruguay for two years, and I was quite impressed by their (lack) of IP law concerning software.

    At the time, I could walk into a number of legitimate businesses and "purchase" software for about $2.00US per disk. The disks, of course, were copies. This was totally legal. I obtained a ton of nice games. It was great. Then one of the businesses was almost shut down because the owner had sold xeroxed copies of manuals. While it was legal to make copies of programs, copying manuals was definitely illegal. His business put up posters showing Uncle Sam stepping on Uruguay. Even though I am from the US, I found this really amusing and even sympathized. The amount charged for software in countries like Uruguay is extremely disporportionate to the amount of money the average person earns. The US software industry, with MS at the helm, is an oppressor of less wealthy nations and peoples.

    Now, these jokers seem to be pulling some sort of scam in the that is the inverse of what I experienced. Perhaps the laws have swung in the opposite direction.

  • Suse is their supplier.

    If Suse were made aware of the situtation through numerous angry but polite letters, they might well reconsider doing business with that entity. The taint of LunuxTech's reputation could easilly spread to Suse in that region, undermining Suse's ability to sell their product via any vendor. This is something Suse has an interest in preventing, and they might be able to exert some pressure on LinuxTech to behave in a manner more appropriate to the Linux community.

    Of course, legal and "out-legal" action should continue in parallel.

    Has anyone considered a "rating" page for Linux companies? Something that would let the unititiated, or someone who has been on vacation for three weeks, know how well a particular entity is behaving vis-a-vis the Linux community? This would be less ... harsh ... than a blacklist, and would have the advantages of rewarding the good players rather than only punishing the vultures. This begs a whole series of questions, such as who would be doing the rating and how, and how complaints like this would be processed, how to avoid improper "astroturf" complaints by competitors against one another, etc.

    Thoughts?
  • Remember the story about the Linux trademark in Korea [linuxtoday.com]? Does anybody have an update on this?
  • Anybody can redistribute SuSE anywhere (well, most of it anyway), you just can't call it SuSE. Same thing for RedHat, Mandrake, etc.

    Anyway, it seems like a perfectly reasonable distribution deal to me. To ensure distribution and advertising, SuSE granted exclusive distribution rights to somebody. Happens all the time.
  • 2. Just because you've never heard of a Swiss company doesn't mean it isn't well known in Switzerland.

    I assume it's well-known in Switzerland, it's a swiss company. The question is whether it's well-known internationally. And the fact that I've never heard of it suggests it's not well-known outside its own area (obviously, I don't think that's concrete evidence).

    3. That's just begging the question. "Because they're evil, they shouldn't do this."

    As far as trademark goes, consider this: if you were starting a Linux company in a country, and realized you were in danger of somebody evil trademarking the name, what could you do to protect yourself? Can you initiate a trademark in Linus' name? Probably not. *Somebody* has to own the trademark, otherwise all Linux businesses are in danger. Ideally, this would be a non-profit, but I don't know the details of Uruguayan trademark law, and I doubt you do either.

    I haven't heard the LinuxTech side of this argument. I've heard the users' group side, and it isn't very well thought out. I'm just saying lets not shun and attack these folks until we actually have some real info.
  • ...I wonder what else they'll try to trademark. Might they trademark "KDE" and "Gnome" too? Or maybe, if they're really serious about this, could they change their names to "Linus Torvalds"? This will probably be a lesson learned to the offenders, after they go out of buisiness because noone will buy from them. Fuck off guys, the Linux community doesn't need or want people like you.

    In short, what these people are doing is PURE BS!

  • But then I realized that I had Uruguay confused with Paraguay. A quick look at the map cleared that up.
    I think these trademark issues that pop up around the globe are a great way to track the spread of linux. It's not really big in a country until someone thinks it would be profitable to corner the market right? Is anyone keeping a list of countries where this has happened and a date? In 3 years you could then make a movie where countries get colored in as someone tries to trademark linux. Speed it up enough and you can watch linux spread across the globe. This would be cool - assuming the trademark applications and such all get rejected - otherwise the film would be depressing.
    --Shoeboy
  • Back when the article about Windows 99 Beer in Germany was published, someone was complaining about how if this had been Linux, Slashdotters would be up in arms about it. Now it's happened again (I wonder what the outcome of the South Korean company was) and people are rightfully pissed.

    The difference? The category of trademark. Note that the company has asked for a trademark related to computer services. One assumes they'd try to market themselves as the owner of Linux, confusing people. This is what trademark law was designed to avoid. If they had asked for a trademark related to say a dance company or something, who would care? (NB: The somewhat made-up nature of Linux might make this a little questionable, IANAL - yet. So don't start playing games with Coke or Nike or Microsoft or somebody.) As long as the trademarks are in different fields of use, two companies can have identical names. That's why Windows 99 Beer is perfectly okay.

  • This company looks quite decent, actually. However, some of the sections look like copied&&translated text rather than original writing. I don't know if it's a word-for-word copy, but the FSF section on their site looks awfully familiar. Of course, much of this is probably due to the Babelfishery (I don't think the site was created by "The equipment of LinuxTECH.", for example :)).
  • That LinuxTECH is the Swiss (.ch) company to which the letter alluded, not the Uruguayan (.com.uy) company about which the letter complains.

    If you had read the letter, you wouldn't have made that mistake.

  • The boxed SuSE distro has printed docs, some non-redistributable software (IIRC), and support. None of this comes with the CD you press. If SuSE wants to grant a company the exclusive rights to resell the boxed SuSE distro in a particular country, they have every right (and possibly sense, given the size of the Uruguayan market for commercial Linux distros) to do so.
  • Is trademarking any different from corporate branding? If someone tried to trademark NikeLinux or CokeLinux, lawyers would be at your door the morning after they heard of it. Are Nike and Coke protected more because they cover several different markets (shoes/sports/clothing - softdrinks/sports/clothing), while Linux is "just an OS"?

    If Nike and Coke have special rights because they have a brand name, we should promote the fact that Linux has an assortment of geek clothing as well. The unique rise in production of stuffed penguins in the last ten years is not coincidental.

    Next, we take the bankrupt LinuxOne and turn them into our softdrink distribution company; 'LinuxOne, the refreshing Linux beverage.' PowerSolutions can sell our soda at Californian flea markets while giving away cds. Then come the promotional geek trading cards...

    I did have a serious question but it seems to have slipped away.
  • Again, what this company is doing is obviously wrong, and the vast majority of posters agree.

    And this would be the what? The "two wrongs make a right" philosophy? By advocating an ILLEGAL attack?

  • Linus is from finland

    "Suble Mind control? why do html buttons say submit?",
  • If you look at http://www.linuxtech.ch , you will see that some halfwits have been flaming them. They apparently have nothing to do with Linuxtech in Uruguay.
  • What did you base that statement on? Any facts? Or is it just a Troll?
    (no, I do not work for SuSE).
  • I used the formal Vd to further distance myself from the person I was addressing. Think about addressing someone using the archaic vos (Iberian, not Argentine) as though one were addressing the Pope or King to convey false stature. Consider the difference between a parent scolding a child and a banker asking you not to jump the queue. I didn't care to get too chummy with the twit I was engaging, but I didn't quite realize when I started that I was going to end up in the informal realm of palabrotas.

    The propio/proprio spelling error is one I'd swear I've made for twenty years running now. I think perhaps I've got a neuron crossed somewhere in the wetware. It took me a long time to fix *interphase/interface in English, or *supercede/supersede. Sometimes I just give up and add an alias in my editor to fix these.

    On dé/da, hey, even my English waxes toward the super-subjunctivated, as it were. :-)

  • When that hypothetical day arrives in which a second language with the tenth part of the capabilidad Vista in the authors dominates You whose works -- and whose cause -- we already discussed, perhaps because then putas will be able to say to four words on the good spelling. But now, nor it is happened to him. Go bad-mannered that is You who do not realize respect due to these dear gentlemen! I assure to him that benefit will have translated this news not by his proprio, but by You That is, it cállese the snout, ungrateful idiot!

    It didn't translate several swears (including puta), but the meaning shows through.
    ---
  • Don't worry, I (and I'm sure others) support making sure that any Tom, Dick, and Harry in *.* country that has trademarking, do not obtain an unfair trademark on an OpenSource project of any kind. Hiring lawyers is certainly a plan, but perhaps it'd be better to start a fund so that the local LUG can get a local lawyer (who will know local law better).

    I suspect that the moderator will likely be M2ed out of his or her priviledge of moderation. With, IMO, just cause.
    ---
  • Erhm, isn't it a bit wrong to advocate electronic terrorism or DoS attacks? Especially considering some of the bad press such things gives the Linux Community..

    Unless, of course, you meant "send them a nice message saying you do not support their actions" when you said "please, hit THIS site early and often."
    ---
  • Yes, this is offtopic, and I realize it will be moderated down quickly, but it deserves a bit more notice than the near automatic -1 moderation it recieved. The fat-time charlie online serial [warmann.com] Give it a read, if only because you won't be hearing from the author in the Slashdot forums anymore.

    And if you're an aspiring artist, perhaps you'll drop the fellow some mail. The serial is damn funny, but it would be even better with some fittingly surrealistic illustrations.

    I knew +1 was good for something. Hope it stays on the /. radar long enough to be seen, eh fat-time?
  • Folks take this with a bit of sarcasm. trickfish, I appologize for the flame ahead of time. My point is hopefully evident.

    Well, if eToys.com can own etoys.org, etoys.net, and even eToyssucks.com, shouldn't they buy up etoy.com as well since it is *close* to their name. Who cares if its another company...

    Yes, say if I ran www.linuxfarts.org, specializing in linux farts (of all things), then I *must* be the sole expert in linux farts. Since obviously we're the experts, no one else should be allowed to own a linuxfarts domain, because we're the experts and we should get all the traffic.

    Obviously can't market a .org name, because after all, Joe User who has an intrest in linux farts has an aversion to that kind of domain. And of course, if I left open a similar domain name, and competition gobbled it up, they would be looking at a compettetors web site instead of mine. And Joe User who is interested in linux farts certainly wouldn't want to see if there is any other information on linux farts, maybe do a search, or type in alternate endings. Maybe they have a better site than you... The "other team" is still concerned with linux farts... the question is, who has more *usable* information.

    Why does this really happen though? Because we're breading stupider users...Why are we breeding stupider users? Because we tell them stuff we know is a lie and we call it marketing. Stuff like, "AOL gives me stuff that I can't find anywhere else on the web." Or eventually "We've got better HOWTOs on how to properly use LinuxFarts..." Its just a big lie. We've wrecked internet1 and turned it into a really trendy version of the Home Shopping Network. God, I dread the day Universities make the mistake of opening up I2 to corporations (who will once again claim "for research purposes" until they figure out some way to market their ideas)

    Ok... so, that's my rant... a little discombobulated but that's my rant...
    I'm sorry you were the author of the message that triggered it trickfish, I understand your sentiment... as corporately warped as it is...

  • For me the most interesting thing is the way people are tying trade marks to domains.

    I work for a Management Consultant company looking at expanding into Internet Consultancy. We were just briefed by specialist IT lawyers in Aust to trademark ALL domain names to prevent Brand Erosion. With disputes over domain names going to court overhere and the fact that it is harder to buy a domain off (you have to buy the underlying business as well) a company or individual, trademareking a domain name has been seen as a short-cut to legally acquiring a domain name that was previously unavailable.

    I like Shakespear best - wasn't it something like lets kill all the lawyers?

  • okay, people, I'll go meta-moderate, just in case I get this one, but why is a post that:

    1. incorrectly states someone is trying to "copyright" (not trademark) Linux
    and
    2. Advocates attempting a DOS against them

    Moderated up as insightful? It's not really a troll, it's not really redundant, or anything, but plese, don't moderate this crap UP so that it appears at the top of the comments.

    --Kevin
    (sorry for being off topic)
  • We at UYLUG know that LINUX is a name that belongs to the community and its legal owner is Linus Torvalds. We applied registration to avoid improper trademark applications, as we resolved in our meetings and official acts since 1998. Both Linus Torvalds and Linux International are noticed about our application and our offer to transfer them the official proceedings. Heber Godoy - Andres Tarallo President - Secretary Uruguay Linux User Group
  • A better translation: Sorry if I screw up your words Tom, but I'll try my best

    "When the hypothetical day comes that you master a second language with one tenth of the ability of the authors, whose work --and whose cause-- we've already discussed, then maybe you can say "four f**cking words"(note: this is as close as I can come to translating what appears to be a slang phrase) about good grammar. But right now, don't even think about it. You should go away, rude person that you are; you're not affording the proper respect that's rightfully due to these fine people! I can assure you that they didn't translate this notice for their own benefit, they did it for you."

    Sorry I just thought that this was very insightful and our non spanish speaking brethren ought to be able to read it

  • Responses to your responses:

    2. Just because you've never heard of a Swiss company doesn't mean it isn't well known in Switzerland. There are countries in the world besides your own. And do you think it would be OK for a Uruguayan company to call itself RedHat or Microsoft or Ford?

    3. I think they're pointing out that they are using the free, unrestricting nature of the Linux community at the same time as they are actively attempting to destroy it in Uruguay.

    And lastly, trademarking something which you have no right to trademark in any circumstance is wrong. If it were your "small country", you might feel a little bit differently.
  • I'm cuurently in the process of patenting the letter 'e'

    this way i can have exclusive rights to use it, and also i can charge people to use it. you can no longer say 'I'm a good worker', you must use the phrase 'I'm a good work-guy'.


    GIVE ME A BREAK
  • For me the big thing is not what they would accomplish by this, but the principle of it. From the commentary so far I can see that some people are arguing over the specifics -- but the real issue is the very principle of it. This "LinuxTECH" (Uruguay) is trying to usurp the name "Linux". Just think what would happen if they won...You would actally have a small company in Southern America able to hold the rest of the Linux community to ransom -- possibly -- but probably not ;)

    Anyway, it would be ridiculous to afford them trademark protection for the name Linux--even if that protection [slashdot.org] doesn't actually help!

    And Rilke [slashdot.org], as for saying that this only matters to Uruguay, and that the concerns of a User Group are not important -- shame on you! Without User Groups to defend the rights of the little people you'd see corporations like Microsoft and IBM swamping the legal system with all sorts of things. User Groups also do a helluva lot of the thinking; without them quite possibly the whole issue being debated (i.e. the Unix (read Linux) Operating System) would not have been born.

    As for name copying -- well you may not have heard of LinuxTECH, but that's not the point! The point is this Uruguayan firm is obviously trying to double cross everybody. Let's list the points:
    i. They get exclusive rights to redistribute SuSE -- I thought this was not allowed under the GPL???
    ii. -- They name themselves LinuxTECH, either in a deliberate attempt to fool/swindle the general computing community in Uruguay or because they can't think of a good enough name by themselves.
    iii. -- The registration application for registration of the LINUX name to the International class 42. Although it's possible for it to be granted it really shouldn't since "Linux" really isn't their name to trademark, and especially since the kernel itself is Copyright 91-94 by Linus himself.

    It all looks sneaky to me!

    With regard to the domain name thing though...the Uruguayans don't have a leg to stand on... As you say it's just like the difference between linux.com and linux.org.

    What to do about it? Well I think people who are feeling evil could mount a DOS attack if they feel like it... Personally I don't think that Pereira and Place will listen to anyone. Hopefully the people who decide about trademarks will have the sense to research what Linux is and realise that they just can't have it!

  • This issue raises a point that has already been highlighted in a previous discussion in Slashdot, and I think it is the central point. First let me say what is not an issue here:

    • GPL isn't being broken in any way.

      They applied for a trademark, not a patent (some still mistake one for the other).

      They do not seem to be willing to enforce this trademark ownership. In their first page there is a button entitled "How to get Linux" which links to this page [linux.com.uy], which I dare to try to translate, despite my lousy Spanish (worse than my English!):
      Linux is free and you don't have to pay for licenses or to obtain it. There are companies in the world market which take the burden to prepare Linux "distributions". These distributions are CD's that in genneral include an extensive set of applications, manuals, plus an applications that allows you to install and even administrate your system in a user-friendly way.
      Many development hours are invested in these distributions so as the finished product owns nothing to its commercial alternatives, in most cases including 30 or more days of free installation support. Its cost is much more accessible than that of any commercial software.
      Anyway, these companies have publicly available free internet sites where one can download or update these distributions.
      It is worth clarifying that if you do not have the time or a very fast connection, it is always much more convenient to buy an already assembled and tested distribution.
      Then you have links to the major distributors.

    I am convinced that their intention is to protect themselves from an oportunistic move from someone else. I may be wrong.

    What is really an issue here is that Linux (and GPL) seem to be pretty orphan when the time comes to protect trademarks and so on. I remember there was a company in Brazl back in 83 called "Microsoft", they started their business about the same time as M$, and the association which leads to the brand name seems to be quite an obvious one, so I don't have reasons to believe that they wanted to fool anyone into thinking they were something else other than themselves. A couple of years later, M$ was already established in Brazil and demanded them to change their name and got a court ruling for that, so the company was renamed "Multisoft". Now, who would act as a legitimate party in such cases so as to protect Linux's name and image? Linus owns the tm alright, but is he willing to put all the energy and resources needed in each case, considering he has other interests right now? (BTW, I'm damn curious about it!) Once we all have an interest in this, would it be fair to put such a burden on his shoulders?

    -------------------------

  • "...what avail? All serious Linux users will avoid them like the plague."

    Sorry, but I have to say something on this. The open source community will definitely avoid them like the plague. On this I have no doubt. BUT, Linux is starting to become commonly used in industries other than computing. And many people in these other industries (and even in the computing industry) really don't care about open source, free software, and the like. When it comes right down to it, these people have to answer to the bottom line (and marketing gimmicks, let's be honest here), and if they can get a product that does the job at a better price (or at least believe they can), they'll jump on it. They don't (and won't) care about the other "issues" regarding that product.

    So, while it is likely that "serious Linux users" will boycott this and other companies, the reality (I feel) is that in the near future the "serious Linux users", or the proponents of open source, will begin to make up the minority of the Linux market.

    This, unfortunately, is a side effect of Linux becoming a Mainstream Product, as opposed to something that "those computer guys in the basement like to play with." And if you want to fight it, you need to do more than complain (not directed at MostlyHarmless, but rather the general community) about what company X is doing. Start by educating yourself (if you haven't already) on what it means to Trademark, Patent, or enforce Copyright and Trade Secret, and what the differences are. Find out what the IP laws are in your country, and maybe neighboring countries and economic parters. And most importantly, understand these laws before complaining about them. And stop saying IANAL!!

    If you want to stop the bandwagon, you can either do it from on board, or stand in front of it and get run over.
  • Trademark is a very funny thing. Many things are not trademarkable, e.g., commonly used terms, words that has other special meaning (this makes me wonder how windows get trademarked, or is it not trademarked?). I believe Linux fall into a commonly known terms that cannot be trademark, i.e. if registration office do their homework.
  • I'm not sure about what's going on internationally, but I do know that Linus Torvalds has the name "Linux" registered with the US trademark office.

  • They sure don't smell like bad guys... (Score:3)

    by Paul Crowley ( 837 ) on Friday January 07, 2000 @02:26AM (#1396050) Homepage Journal
    Mostly, the bad guys online give themselves away with everything they do. They try and hide it, but... you can just smell it. The lack of feeling for what a community is. The money-oriented thinking. The Microsoftisms in their HTML. Look at the Linux One pages [linuxone.com] for an example: the stench of ignorant corporate greed and personal small mindedness is hard to ignore.

    Well, LinuxTECH Uruguay may be evil for all I know, but... they sure don't smell bad. They come across like one of us. Their site design is nice and clean and quick. The biggest giveaway is their huge collection of links [linux.com.uy] - the bad guys don't link outside their own site in case you might reach another side of the story. Their news page [linux.com.uy] even includes a link to a Slashdot story - and often refers to GNU/Linux.

    I'm just convinced that these people are on our side. I hope this can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction soon.
    --

  • Re:Linus' take on this (Score:3)

    by mattdm ( 1931 ) on Thursday January 06, 2000 @05:22PM (#1396051) Homepage
    You can't copyright a name. And trademark works on a per-country basis. I know that Linus holds the trademark in the US [uspto.gov]. (Fun to note this one [uspto.gov] though. Perfectly ok because operating systems aren't laundry detergent or toothpaste.) I believe that Linus also holds the trademark Linux in several other countries, but I'm not sure of details. Anyone?

    --

  • Jihad! Jihad! (Score:3)

    by Signal 11 ( 7608 ) on Thursday January 06, 2000 @07:01PM (#1396052)
    OH MY GOD, somebody's trying to steal a trademark! LYNCH HIM!!!!! Eat hot rockets scum bag!

    So let me get this straight... geeks in general don't like lawyers, the legal system, ad nauseum, preferring to code instead. But while most NORMAL people could care less about another trademark battle, the geeks are out on jihad because somebody in a country I never even heard of is trying to trademark an operating system that the average person still doesn't even know about! I think the more obscure it is, the more geeks like to talk about it... =)

  • Re:"Exclusive" rights to sell? (Score:3)

    by Imperator ( 17614 ) <slashdot2.omershenker@net> on Thursday January 06, 2000 @05:30PM (#1396054)
    SuSE sells a distribution in a box. Though they don't have the rights to 99% of the software in that box (nor do they claim to), they have spent their money packaging all that software into a distribution. They own that distribution. If they want to make this Uruguayan LinuxTECH company the exclusive distributor of their product, they can. They aren't breaking the GPL: they still distribute source for any GPL'd software in their distro. (Same with other OSS licences.) They don't have an exclusive right to distribution of the non-SuSE software (i.e. I can sell Apache in Uruguay) within the distro, but they do have rights to the boxed distro itself.

  • Re:what the hell? (Score:3)

    by Tom Christiansen ( 54829 ) <tchrist@perl.com> on Thursday January 06, 2000 @06:58PM (#1396055) Homepage
    Cuando llegue aquel día hipotético en que domine Vd un segundo idioma con la décima parte de la capabilidad vista en los autores cuyas obras--y cuya causa--ya discutimos, pues entonces tal vez podrá decir cuatro putas palabras sobre la buena ortografía. Pero ahora, ni se le ocurra. Vaya maleducado que es Vd que no se dé cuenta del respecto debido a estos estimados señores! Le aseguro que habrán traducido esta noticia no por su proprio beneficio, sino por Vd.

    O sea, cállese el hocico, idiota ingrato!

  • Their loss (Score:3)

    by MostlyHarmless ( 75501 ) <[artdent] [at] [freeshell.org]> on Thursday January 06, 2000 @05:21PM (#1396056)
    Sure, they can go right ahead and try to trademark the name.

    Know what? They may even win. But to what avail? All serious Linux users will avoid them like the plague. This is very similar to the LinuxOne claim, except LinuxOne has a vast market of people who can't tell the difference and haven't hear all the bad pr surrounding them (or so they claim). On the other hand, this company is reselling a standardized distribution aimed at the existing Linux market, so they need all the good press they can get. In the Linux market, most of the purchases are made by technically educated people who probably read /. occasionally if not daily. The Uruguayan company has now lost a huge chunk of their market who will never want anything to do with them because of their animosity towards the Linux community.

    void recursion (void)
    {
    recursion();
    }
    while(1) printf ("infinite loop");
    if (true) printf ("Stupid sig quote");

  • Something similar happened in Sri Lanka (Score:3)

    by RuntimeError ( 132945 ) on Thursday January 06, 2000 @06:50PM (#1396057)
    In Sri Lanka there is a TV station called MTV which stands for Maharaja Telivision. Then another TV station started broadcasting MTV as in Music Television. The Maharaja company obtained an interim injunction order banning MTV ( Music TV).

    However, when the case was finally heard, the Music TV people won.

    So I guess even if some rogue company tries to trademark Linux in Sri Lanka, the international trademark will prevail.

    I'll check on this and write a letter to my friends in LUG to, if possible, obtain a registration on behalf of Linus.

  • Should we be concerned? (Score:4)

    by Calimus ( 43046 ) <calimus&techography,com> on Thursday January 06, 2000 @07:46PM (#1396058) Homepage
    Not being a very big Law fanatic, especially not an Uruguayan law fanatic what I would like to know is what, if any impact this would have outside of Uruguay? Would this impact the Linux Community in such a way that at some point if these ppl are not stopped that it could hinder sales of or use of the Linux name internationally? I'm not saying lets just leave Uruguay hanging on it's own rope by any means. Personally I feel that there's not much to get all stirred up about. Now if this company started actually trying to oust the ULUG from their domains I'd expect to see full community support and also quite a large stir over the issue.

    But are we really looking into this all too far. There is one other patent pending on the Linux name that I know of by a laundry detergent company, yet there wasn't a large outcry about this. I think maybe this hits closer to home since they are trying to patent it on the Computer Industry level rather then on a level that is completely non-related. Suse can let this company have the exclusive right if they want so long as they provide the src for any GPL'd software within their distro as far as I know. I could be wrong.

    In the end I think they will either be denied or it just won't really matter. I'm sure this has been done in some other country by now. After all, now there are Win98 Cigarettes, but we didn't raise a stink about that. I know I got a good laugh about it.

  • It's not going away (Score:4)

    by trickfish ( 57639 ) on Thursday January 06, 2000 @05:29PM (#1396059)
    It seems to me that this type of activity will not be going away soon. Better to be proactive now than to end up in litigation with morons like these guys (the ones trying to patent) later.

    IMPERATIVE:
    If you run a linux .org site, spend the $$ to register your .com and .net domains.

    Why? Because we aren't going to move linux further into the mainstream without marketing ourselves successfully to at least some degree, and all the Joe Users out there that can only type .com are going to end up at some other moron's site, not yours.

    We have to be sneakier than the other team, and grab domains first, as well as other pre-emptive marketing strikes. As for patents, I have no idea how to be proactive there. Lawyers speak up please!

  • Re: What can be trademarked (Score:4)

    by kevin805 ( 84623 ) on Thursday January 06, 2000 @10:05PM (#1396060) Homepage
    Windows is a registered trademark, at least in the US, probably in every country with a trademark office (and MS is busy setting up the trademark offices for the rest of the world, I'm sure).

    I would guess that the reasoning is that even though "Windows" is a common term, it isn't a common term referring to computer software. You probably couldn't trademark "Operating System" as the name for your OS, or "Windows" as the name of your glass company, or Apple as the name of your fruit distribution company, but Apple as the name of a computer company is fine.

    Area of business is a key point in trademark disputes. Apple Corps (Apple Core?) sued Apple Computer for using the name Apple in relation to some sort of music software, because they are a music company. If I start, for example, Penguin Software, Penguin Books wouldn't have a claim against me for trademark infringment. If I planned on starting up a computer press after the company was larger, Penguin would be a bad choice for a name, because then Penguin books would have a claim against me, and I wouldn't be able to use "Penguin" in relation to books. (yes, there is a bookshelf next to this computer.)

    If you mean the way Kleenex and Xerox are tryign to avoid being diluted, I don't think this would apply to Linux, unless people started using Linux to refer to, e.g. freebsd. Linux is definitely trademarkable, in my opinion, but it shouldn't be granted to LinuxTech in Uruguay, because it isn't *their* trademark.

    --Kevin

  • What trademark registration REALLY means (Score:4)

    by P_Simm ( 97858 ) on Thursday January 06, 2000 @07:50PM (#1396061)
    I JUST attended a class today where we were taught about trademarks, as well as other IP protection, and now I wish I had known about this beforehand so I could have asked about it. :)

    But, what I do know is that trademark registration, while useful, isn't as powerful as you might think. In fact, even if these guys get Linux trademarked in Uruguay, I'd go so far as to say they could still get beaten in court if they tried to block sale/distribution of the Linux OS.

    A trademark is protected even if it isn't registered, as long as it has the (tm) symbol on it. Registration simply provides a means by which one can publicly declare their claim over a trademark. This way, if someone else tries to use this trademark and pleads ignorance, you can simply say that they should have looked at the public TM database and are therefore in the wrong.

    Now, if LinuxTECH had come up with the name Linux on their own, and registered it for trademark in their country, then they'd probably retain trademark rights to 'Linux' if it went to court. But, in this case I'm sure it would be VERY simple to prove that these guys previously saw the Linux name, marked as a (tm), and willfully chose to duplicate and try to register it. If it can be proved that they saw Linux used as a trademark in their country, and yet willfully used the name in violation of those declared IP rights, then they should be found to have no rights over the Linux TM.

    This is all assuming that they even try to claim control over the TM and block the sale/dist of Linux at all - if not, then no one has to really care. But if they do, the only hard part would be proving that they saw 'Linux' used as a trademark in their country by someone else already. And if they were reselling distributions of Linux beforehand, it shouldn't be too hard to prove that they've had at least that much contact with Linux previously. :)

  • Confused complaints (Score:5)

    by Rilke ( 12096 ) on Thursday January 06, 2000 @05:29PM (#1396062)
    This may indeed be an evil company, but the open letter just confuses things and makes some pretty dubious points IMHO. Some of this confusion might come from the English translation though.

    1. The first point seems pretty unique to Uruguay, and I don't really understand it. How did they get exclusive representation to SusE? Through the gov't, or through SusE??

    2. (they copied a "well known" swiss company's name)
    I've honestly never heard of the Swiss LinuxTech before. And I don't really see a problem with a Uruguayan company having the same name as a Swiss company.

    3. (the name "LinuxTECH" contains "Linux")
    I see nothing wrong with the name LinuxTECH. That's just a silly complaint. Lots of company names contain the name Linux or even Windows. For example "Linux Today", "Linux Journal", etc. And notice how complaints about this totally contradict the previous point.

    4. (they registered www.linux.com.uy, even though linux.org.uy existed).
    The same linux.org vs. linux.com exists in the root domain, and nobody cares. If I were starting a company down there, I'd certainly gobble up that domain.

    They Uruguayan users group might have some real complaints, but their open letter doesn't help their argument any. OTOH, LinuxTECH could easily just be a decent company who somehow pissed off a few members of a small users group. There's really no way to tell from this info.

    Also, trademarking "Linux" in a small country isn't evil in itself; they might just be protecting themselves against somebody else doing the same thing. It all depends on how they use it.

  • Link with legal info from REAL lawyers (Score:5)

    by P_Simm ( 97858 ) on Thursday January 06, 2000 @07:58PM (#1396063)
    This link was given to me by the patent agent who lectured our class on IP rights, it's at the site for the company he works for and has some great summary IP info. It's a Canadian company, but from my understanding nearly all IP rights have been internationally agreed on. Even in cases where individual countries have their own jurisdiction, the rules are still the same. (Minor difference in North American patent rules vs everyone else, but that's all I know of.)

    Anyway, the link:

    http://www.adeco.com/general_info.htm

    Check out either the Trademarks link or the Acrobat file titled 'Intellectual Property Overview'.

  • Official SuSE Response (Score:5)

    by JamesS ( 134467 ) on Friday January 07, 2000 @03:14AM (#1396064)
    We at SuSE are concerned about the Linux name issues worldwide. SuSE even works together with Linus Torvalds to mantain the rights of the name Linux. Therefore we will talk to the Uruguayan reseller and find a solution for this issue.

    The open letter sounds very agressive and desperate. Please don't forget: A "reseller" buys software packages and re-sells them. And that's it.

    Regards,
    James S
    SuSE Linux Ltd.

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