The EP.....decided that criminal sanctions should apply only to infringements deliberately carried out to obtain a commercial advantage. Piracy committed by private users for personal, non-profit purposes is therefore
I see a lot of commentary around the web that YouTube's only valid business model is due to turning a blind eye to uploaded copyrighted clips. Having seen how my stepsons use YouTube and similar sites I am not at all convinced that this is the case. They are quite happy with the user generated content.
I know some people who watch Ranma 1/2 episodes on Youtube. Which says something, given the quality of the video, I'm not sure what. But it's not something available on TV, even any flavor of cable (Blame the Cosmic Zombie Jew who was His Own Father), in fact it's hardly available at video stores to rent. So are they helping a failed marketplace succeed despite it's best efforts?
In my experience, the primary attraction of youtube is not the content at all, but the "community". It is difficult to understand until you try it, but posting videos can be incredibly entertaining, due to the amount of attention it is possible to get. With no mods, one can post anything at all that isn't actually obscene, which, practically speaking, makes youtube the perfect environment for a troll. Owing to the way the system counts views and comments (whether positive or not) and gives you honors, anything moderately inflammatory will easily get you on the most-discussed list. Simply put, youtube enables normal people have their own cadre of fanbois.
That's not to say that I haven't used youtube to watch whole TV series, but if all the copyrighted content were to disappear, I agree that they wouldn't be much affected.
From the text of the IPRED 2 directive
"Article 3
Offences
Member States shall ensure that all intentional infringements of an intellectual property right on a commercial scale, and attempting, aiding or abetting and inciting such infringements, are treated as criminal offences."
emphasis mine
Unfortunately it is not just those who are taking commercial from copyright infringement but those who do so on a scale which is considered commercial, file sharers for example, the notion that inciting copyright in
From the text of the IPRED 2 directive "Article 3 Offences Member States shall ensure that all intentional infringements of an intellectual property right on a commercial scale, and attempting, aiding or abetting and inciting such infringements, are treated as criminal offences."
Interesting how these kind of laws never appear to be used against the likes of SCO or TV stations rebroadcasting other channels without proper acknowlagement.
I have no problem with the prosecution of these small time crooks, as long as the worst trouble you can get in for copyright infringement does not exceed the punishment for worse laws... which I would say includes just about everything...
The people who whine about this shit don't understand that it just isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. A very small amount of the population stands to lose, while more of the population stands to gain. But I think that if you get 3 years for copyright infringement and 1 year for beating your wife or six months for aggrivated assault, then there is something seriously wrong with the system. It means that the money being lobbied is more important than the welfare of the people in a country.
Nothing new in our modern civilized societies though. Ick... that sounded bitter.
"The people who whine . ..don't understand that it just isn't that big of a deal"
Yeah, one minor law isn't that big of a deal. Then the next little restriction is trivial, and a further one is insignificant . . . etc. We call that frog soup.
"A very small amount of the population stands to lose, while more of the population stands to gain . .."
That's a very dangerous line of thinking. The same philosophy would apply if we murdered the richest 1% of the population, confiscated their wealth, and then divided it up equally among the remaining 99%. Who could possibly object to a policy that affects so few and benefits so many?
Funny how politicians go up for election claiming this, that and the other - usually things like tax, education, health and transport. Then suddenly once they're in, enforcing draconian controls on digital media is what's important - would they get in if that's what they said up front?
And in addition to that, would even the laws themselves ever be approved if they weren't enforced selectively? If developing file sharing apps is now criminal, they should start their lawsuits here [ssh.com].
I wonder what they'll try to pull when everyone switches to encrypted and friend-routed sharing...
Filesharing can be done with MSIE, at least the downloading side of things. Perhaps they should go after Microsoft?;)
Actually, filesharing would be a lot harder if it wasn't for the TCP/IP stack. And if TCP/IP were to be banned, practically every ISP on the planet would be against such a move.
I have for a long time supported the idea that media featuring a politicians official pontifications should automatically be in the public domain so that large media players (with access to..say...the WH press room), can't hoard this stuff in an effort to pick and choose what the public should be constantly reminded of. Media businesses should be compelled to deposit a copy of the raw footage or transcript to an extended public library service (libraians are tougher than they look). I belive in some countries a similar idea was/is a requirement of running a newspaper?
OTOH: The general public needs to be more forgiving when a politcian "flip-flops", consistency is an admirable trait but impossible for a leader that is willing to listen, learn and adapt to "changes on the ground". "Sorry I fucked up" should not automatically bring calls for resignation, impeachment, ect. (BTW: Don't take this as support for anyone in particular, IMHO some of the neo-cons deserve a CIA trip to ***stan for questioning).
The unfortunate reality is that with the typical electoral system in the west, each election is decided on the basis of a very small number of very high profile issues. Things like economics, "defence", healthcare, and crime are tried and tested. Trendy issues — currently it's anything environmental over here in the UK — can also register significantly. However, minor things that still affect many people every day are rarely even considered. This is how things like IP and road traffic laws can reach a point where a very significant proportion of the population are criminalised for doing something that a majority of the population does not believe to be ethically wrong.
This will probably continue as long as we have this bizarre idea that politicians can predict before the election what will happen throughout their entire term of office. That simply isn't possible, unless their policies are never going to change depending on context. Consider the unpredictability of a world stock market crash or a plane flying into an iconic building, and unsurprisingly the reality doesn't always match up. It is silly to expect that it ever will, and we would do far better if political manifestos set out the principles and values supported by the each candidate, and reserved concrete policies for examples: "Under the current circumstances, I would therefore support this measure to provide further financial support to that group." We also need to get over this idea that any politician who changes his or her position on an issue is "doing a U-turn" and doesn't know what they stand for. Maybe the circumstances just changed? Maybe they came across better information, and revised their opinion in light of it? These are good things for politicians to do, as long as their actions are consistent with the principles and values for which they stood at election time. The idea that all politicians should have evaluated all information on all issues comprehensively before every decision they are asked to make is simply unrealistic, and I would rather vote for someone who acknowledged this and made a genuine effort to dot the right thing than someone who pretended they were omniscient and used this to attack their more considerate opposition.
Of course, such a principled election system would also show up some other problems with "representative" democracy in places like the US and UK today. As far as I can see, the major political parties in these countries are so closely aligned on many issues that someone who is fairly central but tends towards individual responsibility and capitalism rather than socialism and a large government simply has no-one to vote for who will argue their case. Given the barriers to entry in starting a new political party, this means a significant proportion of the population's voice is never heard.
Look, here's the basic HOW-TO on being a politician: (1) You have 100$ which is tax income (2) You have two constituent groups which are both 50% of the population (3) Your task is to divide the funds fairly between them
Now, the inexperienced politican promises them 50$ each, and if against all odds win gives it to them.
The experienced politicans will do the following: (1) Through a series of veiled inconsistencies promise both 60$, to be delivered in healthcare or education or lower taxes or whatever. You'll f
The irony is that honest politics that, for example, dramatically simplified the tax system in my country, really would save a fortune. The infrastructure costs of implementing all those special cases, with their separate collection and enforcement mechanisms, are significant. Just doing away with all of that and going to a system with a few, transparent taxes collected via a very small number of mechanisms would save a fortune in both personal taxes and business overheads. Pretty much everyone would benefi
I think my idea of good government would be closer to yours than to what we have today.
The big problem with an approach such as you describe is who provides the checks and balances? If it is to be illegal for the administration to act other than in accordance with the principles for which the people voted, then some degree of judicial oversight must be involved to decide when they have crossed the line.
Now, you basically have two options. You can have another round of elections to decide who gets to hav
That's not really what I mean, though. In fact, with only two choices, it's hard to see how a system could even get close.
If you reduce political principles to a straight a-vs-b choice, then pretty much the only distinction you could usefully make would be between individualism and collectivism. That is certainly a very important principle, which underlies many social, economic and political issues. But in the US, both major parties are so far towards the individualist end of that spectrum that they offer
The European Commission is appointed by the EU's participating countries, so in a sense they are elected. Directives usually pass by parliament (which is directly elected), so they're not "law by default". If they were, there would be no point in writing to your MEP now would there?
I want a new directive. One that bans all member states from making any new laws for the next ten years.
Think about this for a second, think of one piece of legislation passed in the last ten years that has positively impacted anyone you know in the first world?
I can't think of a single thing, not one, nothing. Maybe this is a failure of imagination on my part but on the whole laws in the last ten years have
been mostly negative.
Maybe voting is declining in Britain not because of athapy, per se, but because people like myself our realizing the truth. Our politicians
are powerless - they can't do a thing to change the plight of the average person on the street. They can raise taxes, lower taxes, pass all
sorts of laws but they can't stop the dickheads burning people's bins or the fourteen year olds buying cider to vomit up on the street.
In short, what's the point in voting when both parties are equally as corrupt and when the decisions taken there never effect you? It's a
powerful argument but not one I personally agree with. I vote not for myself but because a great many lives were lost trying to defend that vote.
The tragedy is that this generation has come to find that their vote would be more productively used as toilet paper than a means of expressing
your opinion.
We need a new sort of politics. A politics where local issues and common people are listened to. A politics where the career of the politician
matters less than serving their constituents. A politics where issues are not decided based on the party your belong to but what improves the lives of the people of the country. We need a politics where an honest politician is not considered an oxymoron. We need a rupture from the past and we need it more urgently than ever before.
Good post. I'd also like to see a fully transparent tax system, whereby *you* choose where the tax money you paid for goes.. you hate the road conditions where you live? direct it at that. You want a better quality play park for your kids? direct it at that.. and so on.
The problem then arises that things such as education, parks, police, and anything else that isn't quite so important to the general public goes down hill, or at least that's what would happen here "in the colonies."
The general public has a tendency to not want to spend money on anything that doesn't directly effect them, so they won't care if the police department looses its funding unless they've recently been robbed, they won't care about the money going to schools unless they currently have or plan on having kids in the immediate future, they won't care about the parks unless they live by them. This would only pose more problems in the long run unless the general public suddenly becomes smart, which I don't think can happen.
As the T-shirt reads, "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
I have had thoughts along these lines. I was thinking... maybe 10% of your taxes could be directed where you wanted? Even if all those 10% went to something really stupid (like sports), the other parts would only be hurting, not destroyed. And by that hurting, the general populace would probably learn what it means not to have the police around, or the police would learn to be important to have around.
I agree going all the way in one step would be silly. Maybe in a hundred years;)
I rather think that would just end up lowering the taxes 10%. Such cuts would have to be financed... and while I'd happily point out where those 10% could be saved, I don't think my suggestions would be applauded by the broad populace:)
However, directly allocating just the 10% might get more people interested in national finance, and kill some of the current loathing of politicians and apathy that is poisoning our democracies. On the other hand, it might not, of course.
Think about this for a second, think of one piece of legislation passed in the last ten years that has positively impacted anyone you know in the first world? well, i like this one [wikipedia.org] this one [wikipedia.org] is also very good. unfortunately the member states prefer to ignore this one.
unfortunately the member states prefer to ignore this one.
This is where most people here completely misunderstand the EU. Member states implement EU directives via laws introduced by their own parliaments, with the wording of law therefore very much down to the individual country (with the exception of directives relating to the Common Agricultural Policy). A member state can't completely ignore an entire directive indefinitely, but they can water-down or tighten-up a directive as they see fit (the word "di
i do understand. i meant that the member states ignore the laws they had to implement because of the directive. remember the story with the airline passenger data transfers? the data was transferred although it was unlawful and everybody knew that. the european court of justice has decided, after two years, that it was unlawful. the eu countries still transfered data after that. remember the story with the german policeware. it is unlawful and everybody knows that. but the politicians don't give a damn - the polic
A member state can't completely ignore an entire directive indefinitely
Actually they can. France does it all the time. Even if they get round to passing the law, they just don't bother enforcing it. Competition in utilities and fishing quotas are just two examples.
I urge everyone to vote Lib Dem. They're committed to improving [libdems.org.uk] the electoral system (check out the 'better governance' consultation paper), which includes implementing a system of proportional representation. This is the foundation for good government. They may well have policies that you disagree with; I don't like their fondness for the EU, nor their support of Labour's road charging idea. However we only need them in office for 1 or 2 terms to fix our godawful electoral system, and then we can actually start voting for parties that are actually GOOD, and our vote will be useful. Vote Lib Dem.
I agree. Our first past the post system makes it very difficult for new parties to establish themselves as well as rendering many peoples votes totally wasted. Labour acutally promised to look at PR, but they never have.
You know I like a lot of what the Lib Dems stand for, but I just can't see what is so good about proportional representation. As far as I can see it would lead to:
Perpetual coalition government - not a good thing IMO since it can lead to governing coalitions that last for decades (Austria until recently for eg).
Voting by party not by candidate - so even more powerful parties. All MPs have to toe the line or not get on the list, and there is no chance for individual un
1. Perpetual coalition government - not a good thing IMO since it can lead to governing coalitions that last for decades (Austria until recently for eg).
As opposed to our current system with 2 virtually identical parties vying for the politically-correct centreground, closing their minds to many new ideas for fear of losing votes from certain sectors? The current system is worse than coalitions would be. Whatsmore, at least with coalitions, there would be a lot more small parties in the commons that could
Thanks for replying. You make a lot of points,
and I hope you'll forgive me if I go through them
one by one - I'm not so much disagreeing with you
as articulating some long held doubts about
proportional representation.
As opposed to our current system with 2
virtually identical parties vying for the
politically-correct centreground, closing their
minds to many new ideas for fear of losing votes
from certain sectors?
I'd say the current consensus is simply where
British politics is at the moment -
I'd say the current consensus is simply where British politics is at the moment - I don't really see this as something that is effected by the voting mechanism; rather that Thatchers reforms shifted the consensus to the right, something I think would remain whatever the voting system.
I disagree. Had Labour not had the ridiculous majority they still enjoy, nothing like as many bad reforms would have been put through, we'd be less close to Europe (because of UKIP's influence), taxes would be lower (Gordon Br
PR sure does deliver weak governments and perpetual coalitions, but I think that's a good thing. Care to back up your assertion that it's "not a recipe for success" with some reasoning? A 'strong government' is the government's way of saying a 'government that has too much power', as far as I'm concerned. Look, politics should reflect the debates people are having in real life. Laws *should* be hard to pass, coalitions *should* have to be formed to get them through; that represents a majority of people ac
I sort of agree with your opinions on politicians, but I disagree with your opinion on voting.
Not voting means that you accept _any_ government that may be elected, which means that you are accepting the fact that an extreme-right or extreme-left government may win the election.
Personally, I _always_ vote, generally for the party I dislike the least, and not because I care who wins from the generally accepted parties, but simply because I do _not_ accept extreme left/right parties getting a larger sha
Not voting means you don't approve of any of the candidates. A low voter turnout robs the government of legitimacy. In my opinion null votes should count towards "empty chair" positions in the government, which automatically vote against any new legislation. That way if the populace is disgusted enough with the choices, the elected government will be completely impotent, as it ideally should be.
Not voting means you don't approve of any of the candidates.
A big problem would be working out how many non voters are "don't care" and how many are "none of the above". Unless these are explicit on the ballot.
A low voter turnout robs the government of legitimacy.
It could also be a sign of things such as lack of diversity amongst candidates. Which makes it more likely that a voter will be unable to find any candidate who actually represents his or her views.
That's a very interesting idea. Unfortunately this will never be possible in western society : such a system would destroy any status-quo that enables a ruling class of those-more-equal-than-the-others to maintain power.
Think about this for a second, think of one piece of legislation passed in the last ten years that has positively impacted anyone you know in the first world? I can't think of a single thing, not one, nothing. Maybe this is a failure of imagination on my part but on the whole laws in the last ten years have been mostly negative.
It would seem that way. Most laws are designed to cement the illegality of things that would otherwise be immoral, or directly associated with other illegal activities. Ergo, the the
In short, what's the point in voting when both parties are equally as corrupt and when the decisions taken there never effect you?
Well on the 3rd of May I'll have the choice of at least seven parties on the regional list, all with a reasonable chance of being elected. But the constituency vote is the same old nonsense where I have to vote Lib Dem to keep the Tories out. I think there's room for improvement here...
A politics where issues are not decided based on the party your belong to but what impr
Our politicians are powerless - they can't do a thing to change the plight of the average person on the street. They can raise taxes, lower taxes, pass all sorts of laws but they can't stop the dickheads burning people's bins or the fourteen year olds buying cider to vomit up on the street.
Of course they can. For those specific problems, for instance, they could make more money available to the police for recruitment and training and cut the amount of paperwork they have to do, targets they have to meet, et
I concur, it seems like every law I see passed in Europe OR the U.S. is something I consider bad. I wonder who's representing my interests. Europe is on a bit of a roll lately. A couple of days ago it's a free speech reduction act: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/20 40200 [slashdot.org]
Now this anti-fair use law, and the whole 24x7 police monitoring thing in the UK from a few weeks back.
Maybe I'm dwelling on the negative, but when was the last time we saw some legislation(not a court ruling) in Europe
"Harmonizing" only means that laws in different EU countries are brought to par so that every country has the same law. Now, lobbies have more or less power in various countries. In general, you can be fairly certain, though, that companies that invested a lot of money into laws in one country won't allow this to change and get more lenient, thus the politicians of the countries with a lot of lobby influence tend to be quite vocal to get their law pushed up to EU levels.
I mean, don't bite the hand that feeds you. Makes sense, doesn't it?
That's the lie that has continupously been used to increase copyright law for copyright holders. That's why copyright term was extended in the US - "to harmonize" with german/european law. They needed to "extend it" because the nazis suspended copyright during WWII. So th US law had to be extended to match their term length.
However, if you notice, copyright law was not suspended in the US during WWII.
I think they should also criminalizes voyeurism. While the victims don't actually lose anything physically, the offenders do gain something from the action.
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Friday April 27, 2007 @04:53AM (#18897639)
Inciting or abetting or aiding a copyright infringement is also a crime.
Windows contains a CD ripper, there is no fair use in EU law, you are not allowed to rip CD, Windows is a commercial product, this fits the commercial scale aiding of piracy. It is no different from any other copying device. So how about we demand the criminal prosecution of Microsoft?
BSA was a strong backer of this law, essentially to protect Windows. So it would be fitting if we could get Microsoft as it's first victim. Nokia next, their phones can play MP3s. They also backed this law.
You may have difficulty getting enforcement, since this is a dipshit law and the policemen know it, but you can often file Ombudsman complaints against the police if they fail to enforce the law in some cases but not others.
This is a golden time, every major backer of this law is guilty of some infringement of it. You don't even need to be the copyright holder to file a complaint under this law! How cool is that? A law so vague every MP3 makers, duplicating machine maker, computer maker, phone maker, search engine maker, is guilty of violating it.
In Europe, the loser generally pays for the legal costs of the prevailing party. So, good luck taking on Microsoft or Nokia in Europe as an individual; they can throw tons of lawyers at this, and you'll be bankrupt first time you lose, which will be rather quick.
Now maybe Europeans will start making music and movies and writing books. Until now nobody there had any reason to produce art -- it would just have been pirated, so what would have been the point?
I fear the day that someone develops a nice killer app that turns out (entirely unexpectedly and unintentionally) to fuel piracy.
It could be a blog software with a vulnerability that some dev has no time to fix, or it could be some new secure p2p IM service with a casual file transfer built in. Any other software manifestation that carries with it honestly wonderful intentions can be construed as criminal in the hands of its users.
How does the opensource community, comprised of software authors with no legal protection, manage to protect their continued activities? Does anyone else fear the implications this has for entire opensource OS's and kernels that could somehow be construed as having code that "aids piracy" in some remote fashion? Softmac support in the form of people on wifi hotspots is one example I can think of.
Never mind software vulnerabilities or theoretical IM programs, what about all the existing file sharing programs? We have to prosecute those evil criminals that promote music piracy. We must find whomever is responsible for such piracy systems as FTP, HTTP, and even IP.
I'm all for legalizing free, noncommercial share of copyrighted information (that is, what it's called "end user piracy" today). As far as TFA says, it seems Europe now explicitely protects the end user right to share copyrighted information: something that previous Italian legislation, for example, explicitely *criminalized*, instead.
It seems to me that the law bans commercial, money-making piracy (that's OK for me). As for the "banning p2p software", I've not found clear references. Can someone explain me better?
If this user downloads pirated material and use this only for his own entertainment [...] he or she can not be prosecuted through the new directive.
For one thing the article just talks about DOWNLOADING, which is only half of any functioning P2P system. Furthermore I'm not quite sure how people are supposed to download content if the P2P systems are banned.
But from the measly article it's hard to glean any kind of information about any of this;(
Exactly, and it shows how much editorialized is Slashdot these days, trying to make everyone else look worse so U.S. doesn't look so bad. Take a look at this other submission [slashdot.org], in the firehose:
andyteleco writes "Yesterday, 25/04/2007, the European Parliament voted in favour of a proposal to modify the EU Parliament and Congress directive regarding penal measures destined to enforce Intellectual Property rights. the directive finally establishes in Article 3 that the member states will be responsible of considering as a criminal infraction all intentional IP offences committed at a commercial scale, as well as complicity and/or incitement to these offences. According to Amendment 13, Article 2 of the directive excludes culpability of the acts performed by private users for personal non-profit usage. Read the entire text [europa.eu]"
So now E.U. citizens have the explicit right to make private copies for personal non-profit usage (something in line with the Betamax decision on U.S.), but infringement, complicity and incitement to infringement on commercial scale now holds harsher penalties. Slashdot groupthink like to imagine that they are the center of the world, and every piece of legislation is there to restrict their freedom, is aimed to them but in fact, this legislation main target is not even technological "IP" infringement, but good and old school counterfeiting of goods like clothes, bag and perfumes, that happens to be a big issue to France, for instance.
I'm all for both freedom for private personal copies and jail penalty for petty criminals that sell counterfeit CDs, DVDs and Dolce&Galbanna clothes on flea markets. The fact that this legislation could be interpreted as bad for the likes of YouTube is purely incidental, a side effect that can or cannot be interpreted this way. Now, cut this "MPAA bought E.U." bullshit. You nerds are not the center of the world, and pointing fingers to Venezuela, China, Brazil, E.U., Iran will not make U.S. problems go away.
Thanks for the link. In fact, it seems the legislation is not that bad. For example the justification of Amendment 3:
It should be made clear that the involvement of injured parties in investigations carried out by the police or public prosecutors' offices must not jeopardise the neutrality of those state investigation agencies. Maintaining objectivity and neutrality is part and parcel of the rule of law.
states basically that MPAA and RIAA cannot go berserk ignoring the neutrality of laws.
So now E.U. citizens have the explicit right to make private copies for personal non-profit usage
No, that's not what this means. It means it isn't a criminal offence for them to do so; they can still be sued by the copyright holder, they just aren't going to prison for it.
Do it on a commercial scale, and you end up in prison. This is already the case in most EU countries, I think, so I'm not sure what the directive changes. The FIPR objects [fipr.org] on the grounds that it extends criminal liability to intentional
(b) "infringements on a commercial scale" means any infringement of an intellectual property right committed to obtain a commercial advantage; this would exclude acts carried out by private users for personal and not for profit purposes;
Everybody is talking but nobody read the actual legislation. I know, I know, I'm not that new here on Slashdot, but it is still amazing the ammount of ignorance that can be derived from so few people.
On ThePirateBay case (and other trackers), as on ot
> As far as TFA says, it seems Europe now explicitely protects
(I am European, but not an expert in Europolitics but...)
IIRC, this is a "directive" and, as the word suggests, is simple a request that the European member nations create the relevant laws to implement them. The EU has no power to make laws (yet), so only when this directive is implemented in law in the country you live in are you protected.
(I am European and while by no means an expert, I'm taking a EU Law course)
A EU directive is quite different than "a simple request" to EU member states, though you are partly right. A directive is binding for all the member states to which it is addressed (in this case; all member states), but it does not specify the measures that should be taken, only the goals. Thus, the member states are obliged to implement measures in their own national law that will achieve the goals set in the directive.[1]
Here are a couple of consequences of the text [ffii.org] as voted by the EP. This directive was not and has never been about piracy (although some lobby organisations have tried to hijack it for that purpose). It is only about EU competence extension [edri.org].
And fwiw, it does not exclude private users from criminal sanctions. The approved amendment reads:
(b) "infringements on a commercial scale" means any infringement of an intellectual property right committed to obtain a commercial advantage; this excludes acts carrie
It's not illegal in my country, yet. I can download copyrighted materials because it's my right to get a private copy as long as there is no profit motive.
How long will it be until thoughtcrime becomes a punishable offense?
Excepting end-users doesn't alleviate this at all, especially since almost all end-users also upload copyrighted material in todays P2P networks (hence the acronym).
Since anyone can write a simple P2P system in a few hours and using just a few hundred lines of code, and since such a client could be applied for all kinds of legal and sensible uses like distributing patches, podcasts, etc, I find it a horrible idea to potentially send people to prison for writing such a system.
I agree that copyright infringement should be punished, but in light of the high usage of P2P systems no government acting in the interest of its people should criminalize such huge percentage of the people it represents. There has to be a real compromise between the content creators/owners and the end-users in whose interest governments should ultimately act. And sending people to prison or fining them many thousands of euros for illegally downloading digital content just doesn't seem that interest-protecting for the people to me!
When I hear the word "harmonise", I usually think of things being harmonious [thefreedictionary.com]... however, what happens in looney Euroland is that harmonisation of laws results in things becoming equally bad for everyone... things never become less restrictive, they always manage to find a way for all the most restrictive laws to be kept and amalgated into the new "harmonised" version...
When I hear the word "harmonise", I usually think of things being harmonious... however, what happens in looney Euroland is that harmonisation of laws results in things becoming equally bad for everyone... things never become less restrictive, they always manage to find a way for all the most restrictive laws to be kept and amalgated into the new "harmonised" version...
Hardly restricted to the EU, especially in the context of copyright, is there even one example of a copyright treaty which resulted in a r
I don't tend to pirate software any more, as there's simply no need. There is an OSS tool for just about every job, and many of them are getting to the point (finally) where they're actually up to the standard of commercial software.
The only commercial software I need tends to be small utilities (which usually have an honest developer who deserves the money) and Windows (It's too much like hard work to pirate it and keep it up to date anyway)
Music - rips are very often bad quality or difficult to get hold of - if it's available on iTunes for 99p then I'm willing to pay that to save the hassle.
Which just leaves anime. I must admit, although fansubs are technically illegal (presumably) I greatly prefer them to dubs. And the easiest way to get 'em is to download 'em. If Jump were to supply downloadable subs of Naruto themselves (translated in a proper fan-like fashion, not a dub-like one i.e. I don't want to read "Believe It!" every 10 seconds) then by all means the money would be theirs.
One other thing I forgot to mention - DVDs. I don't see why people spend a fortune on bandwidth (and time) downloading the things, in a compressed format, when you can usually buy the DVD dirt cheap, save yourself the trouble and the bandwidth, and have something better quality too. Furthermore it keeps the likes of the MPAA off your back. Exception: I've been known to copy rental DVDs for personal use. Even then there's no point really as I very very rarely get around to re-watching anything. Anything t
One other thing I forgot to mention - DVDs. I don't see why people spend a fortune on bandwidth (and time) downloading the things, in a compressed format, when you can usually buy the DVD dirt cheap
When will Disney's Song of the South be released on DVD? When will Disney's Pinocchio be re-released on DVD? When will a lot of anime (region 2 NTSC) be released on DVD in region 1?
A fair point. Allow me to clarify: if the DVDs are actually available;)
I refer back to my point on anime in the previous post. Ironically, it seems that the one I was talking about (Naruto) is available from first glance although I think it has to be imported from the US (bleh) and I have a feeling it'll have the "Americanized" subtitles (if you see what I mean, i.e. over-translated). Plus it's shockingly expensive to buy a full series!
One other thing I forgot to mention - DVDs. I don't see why people spend a fortune on bandwidth (and time) downloading the things, in a compressed format, when you can usually buy the DVD dirt cheap, save yourself the trouble and the bandwidth, and have something better quality too.
Assuming the material in question is available on DVD in the first place. Even if it is you may be faced with spending plenty of time, trouble and money to get hold of a DVD only available somewhere else in the world. Being able
They have voted to pass it on it's first reading. It still has some way to go yet before it becomes an actual directive, and there is still plenty of opportunity for it to be rejected or heavily ammended.
I would point out that most member states of the EU already crimialize "comercial" copyright infringment, and thus this could be seen as an attempt to "harmonizing" EU wide law. I would also point out the proposed directive would require member states to ensure fair use rights, something several member states don't do, starting with the U.K.
The point that it's just the first reading is very important. It means that it has most likely little to do with what will be the final version. The text will now be sent back and forth between the commission and parliament as well as various committees and groups of experts.
I wish that those that posted these types of news would tone down the sensationalism and hysteria. "EU bans this and that" type of news are becoming quite common on slashdot while having little support in reality. The political process
If a person who decides that they should be an Open Source advocate they really should stop pirating material. I know most of you feel that software should be free and by pirating it you force the other guys to give you free software, but in the long run it doesn't help. If you are going to be an Open Source advocate you really should try as much as possible to use the Open Source and free alternatives as much as possible, if no Open Alternative exists that fits your needs either make it yourself or more re
The only type of pirating I can justify is abandon ware where there is an application that is so old the companies has went out of business or doesn't maintain the product line anymore.
You mean like Disney movies that go "back into the vault"?
the wrong word for it, family corruption probably would be the better word. The head of this whole thing is Janelly Fortou, which coincidentally is the wife of the Vivendi CEO. Or in other words, this is a lex vivendi! It still has been pushed somewhat into saner waters, the original proposal would have been desastrous, even patent infringements would have been included (just to satisfy some pharma companies), even pro patent lobbyists like Microsoft (which do a lot of lobbying over here for pro software paten
This is the reply I received from my Lib Dem MEP, Graham Watson, who is leader of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe, to an email I sent him urging him to support amendments to the directive. I think he has quite a good grasp of the issue, and when they failed to get all the amendments included, they voted against.
Interestingly, my UKIP MEP, Roger Knapman, also voted against...
Thank you for your email of 23rd April 2007 regarding the directive on criminal measures aimed at ensuring the enforcement of intellectual property rights. The infringement of intellectual property rights, such as counterfeiting and piracy is a growing phenomenon which has a serious economic effect on the global scale. The Commission proposed this directive to offer additional provisions to strengthen and improve the fight against systematic infringement of intellectual property rights.
Although I am not a member of the Legal Affairs committee which has discussed this directive, I am indeed aware of the matter and share a number of your concerns about its current drafting. There is general agreement to remove patents from the scope of the directive, and I believe it should be further restricted. To this end, my Liberal Democrat colleague Sharon Bowles MEP tabled a number of amendments for the vote in the European Parliament which are concurrent with the aims of the Librarians', Consumers' and Innovators' Coalition amendments.
I understand that Sharon has sought to address the current wording of Article 3 which stipulates that "Member States shall ensure that all intentional infringements of an intellectual property right on a commercial scale, and attempting, aiding of abetting and inciting such infringements, are treated as criminal offences". In its place, Sharon proposed that "Member States shall ensure that all intentional infringements of an intellectual property right on a commercial scale, or wilfully and specifically aiding of abetting or inciting such infringements, are treated as criminal offences when there are aggravating circumstances of organised crime, counterfeiting, piracy or serious risk to health or safety". This clarifies that innocent or unknowing assistance to infringe is not covered and also restricts the scope of offences to which criminality could apply.
A second concern is one of definitions. Although I gather the Librarians', Consumers' and Innovators' Coalition amendments have done a fair job at establishing definitions, I do believe it far better to remove the definitions from the text completely. This to my mind is safer and allows judges to dismiss cases that might otherwise be caught by specific definitions. For this reason I supported Sharon's amendment which eliminates definitions.
Unfortunately, in the vote in the European Parliament on Wednesday 25th April, a number of these amendments did not pass and subsequently the Group I lead voted against the directive. But, realistically I believe there is some way to go before we will know the final shape of this legislation as this is just the first reading but I hope this answer is reassuring that Liberal Democrats in the European Parliament take your concerns seriously.
Please do not hesitate to get in touch should you require further information.
Yours sincerely,
Graham Watson MEP
Member of the European Parliament for South West England and Gibraltar
and Leader of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe
This is complete nonsence and incompetent law again introduced by clueless politicians who are doing NOTHING useful to countries and people they represent. How usual these days:(
First, a much better submission for this same news can be accessed on the Firehose [slashdot.org]. It is a mystery to me why that submission was not accepted instead of the one we are commenting on. I think it is because it is not sensationalist, biased against the E.U. and polarizing, limiting itself to present the fact with the minimum possible bias. I will post it here, so we can comment on it instead.
European Parliament rules sharing isn't illegal
"Yesterday, 25/04/2007, the European Parliament voted in favour of a proposal to modify the EU Parliament and Congress directive regarding penal measures destined to enforce Intellectual Property rights. the directive finally establishes in Article 3 that the member states will be responsible of considering as a criminal infraction all intentional IP offences committed at a commercial scale, as well as complicity and/or incitement to these offences. According to Amendment 13, Article 2 of the directive excludes culpability of the acts performed by private users for personal non-profit usage. Read the " [europa.eu]
There are some important parts there, that helps to clarify and protect private copying, while harmonizing the legislation among the members states to fight the real threat that this legislation aims: counterfeiting of real world trademarked and copyrighted goods. Here are some important parts of this amendments:
Amendment 1: "Certain criminal provisions need to be harmonised so that counterfeiting and piracy in the internal market can be combated effectively."
Ammendment 3: "The involvement of the holders of intellectual property rights concerned should constitute a supporting role that will not interfere with the neutrality of the state investigations.
Amendment 13: ""infringements on a commercial scale" means any infringement of an intellectual property right committed to obtain a commercial advantage; this would exclude acts carried out by private users for personal and not for profit purposes;
Amendment 16: "Member States shall ensure that the fair use of a protected work, including such use by reproduction in copies or audio or by any other means, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship or research, does not constitute a criminal offence."
Amendment 24: "Member States shall ensure that, through criminal, civil and procedural measures, the misuse of threats of criminal sanctions is prohibited and made subject to penalties. Member States shall prohibit procedural misuse, especially where criminal measures are employed for the enforcement of the requirements of civil law.
Amendment 25: "Member States shall ensure that the rights of defendants are duly protected and guaranteed.
Amendment 27: "The Member States shall put in place adequate safeguards to ensure that such assistance [by the IP holders] does not compromise the rights of the accused person, for example by affecting the accuracy, integrity or impartiality of evidence.
Now, again, let's comment on that. How is that bad for fair use, private copying, etc? It is exactly THE OPPOSITE of what is being stated in the summary of this article, it defines explicitly fair use, right to private copying and creates a legal framework for the IP holders to be able to assert their rights, while protecting the citizens against baseless suits.
And, as a side effect of that, it legalizes the legal parallel importing of goods, making the ones like Lik Sung (sic) to be able to operate on E.U. territory. See below:
Amendment 15: Criminal sanctions shall not be applied in cases of parallel importation of original goods which have been marketed with the agreement of the right-holder in a
WTF Man, I "don't see the forest from the trees"?! "... and such it includes Patents."?! RTF amendments [europa.eu]!! The exact first thing these amendments are changing in the text of the legislation is:
Amendment 1: (...), as defined by this Directive, other than patents.
The explicitly excluded patents from this directive, on its whole body. Now, what were you talking about again?
Btw, I agree that software (and ideas, in general) should not and must not be patentable. But STFU and read the legislation first, com
About 10 years ago I bought an SF Novel by K.W Jeter called "Noir", the background of the story was a world where copyright theft was punishable by death, if you were lucky. http://www.amazon.com/Noir-K-W-Jeter/dp/0553576380 [amazon.com]
The book itself was good but I thought that copyright crime as a capital offence was a fun idea but just a step too far away from reality to be believable.
Not now. Science Fiction can tell the future and it's not one I like.
The European commission and parliament is turning into a bureauc
I've seen a few excellent posts drawing attention to the fact that this law is target not at end users and one highlighting how anti-piracy is good for open source movements - I agree fully with both these.
I would like to say, however, that I am in favour of criminalising copyright infringement. It is theft, right?... well thats what the BPI/RIAA keeps telling me... Just think about the implications for it though; if it is a crime then there needs to be (unless they make it strict liability) mens rea and
Does it strike anyone odd at all that politicians want to lock down access to information? People like to break down economies on a national level or a federation of nations level. That's fine and very useful to look at. Another way, though, to look at an economy is by sector.
In many regions, the economy of a certain type of good or service breaks out ahead of the economy as a whole. Other parts of the economy get pegged to that commodity and are traded against it. The economy of that one sector can be said
In the name of providing video sharing services or Search engines, these sites indulge in mass copyright violation that requires the owners of copyrights (server admins) to set things like robots.txt etc.
The owners of copyrights may not even have a website
...and even if they do they may not put their videos up there
...and even if they did a robots.txt would make no difference. YouTube et al do not send out spiders to collect videos. The videos are uploaded by users who are unfamiliar with, or just do
The EP is quite lobbyable. The software patent opponents successfully lobbied them to strike down the European Patent Directive - the last vote ended with ~95% votes against. It's hardly surprising that someone else talked them into voting for their law.
However, in contrast to the US the EU seems to be less about money and more about talking and (mis)information - the advantage is that non-corporations can play that game, too.
Only if you believe that freedom is a digital, on or off, affair.
If you think that there can be degrees of freedom, or even separate conflicting axis of freedom then the idea of freedom in society is not such a meaningless concept.
At the risk of upsetting the Merkins, only "absolute freedom in society", or indeed "absolute freedom" is an oxymoron.
Promptness is its own reward, if one lives by the clock instead of the sword.
Don't forget the children! (Score:5, Interesting)
From the fine article
The EP.....decided that criminal sanctions should apply only to infringements deliberately carried out to obtain a commercial advantage. Piracy committed by private users for personal, non-profit purposes is therefore
I see a lot of commentary around the web that YouTube's only valid business model is due to turning a blind eye to uploaded copyrighted clips. Having seen how my stepsons use YouTube and similar sites I am not at all convinced that this is the case. They are quite happy with the user generated content.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Don't forget the children! (Score:5, Interesting)
That's not to say that I haven't used youtube to watch whole TV series, but if all the copyrighted content were to disappear, I agree that they wouldn't be much affected.
Re: (Score:2)
Unfortunately it is not just those who are taking commercial from copyright infringement but those who do so on a scale which is considered commercial, file sharers for example, the notion that inciting copyright in
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Interesting how these kind of laws never appear to be used against the likes of SCO or TV stations rebroadcasting other channels without proper acknowlagement.
Re:Don't forget the children! (Score:5, Insightful)
The people who whine about this shit don't understand that it just isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. A very small amount of the population stands to lose, while more of the population stands to gain. But I think that if you get 3 years for copyright infringement and 1 year for beating your wife or six months for aggrivated assault, then there is something seriously wrong with the system. It means that the money being lobbied is more important than the welfare of the people in a country.
Nothing new in our modern civilized societies though. Ick... that sounded bitter.
Re:Don't forget the children! (Score:4, Insightful)
"The people who whine . .
Yeah, one minor law isn't that big of a deal. Then the next little restriction is trivial, and a further one is insignificant . . . etc. We call that frog soup.
"A very small amount of the population stands to lose, while more of the population stands to gain . .
That's a very dangerous line of thinking. The same philosophy would apply if we murdered the richest 1% of the population, confiscated their wealth, and then divided it up equally among the remaining 99%. Who could possibly object to a policy that affects so few and benefits so many?
Re: (Score:2)
Copyright as an election issue (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Copyright as an election issue (Score:4, Insightful)
And in addition to that, would even the laws themselves ever be approved if they weren't enforced selectively? If developing file sharing apps is now criminal, they should start their lawsuits here [ssh.com].
I wonder what they'll try to pull when everyone switches to encrypted and friend-routed sharing...
Re:Copyright as an election issue (Score:4, Funny)
Jesus! You mean I'm going to need friends now? Those fascists at the **AAs have found my weakness...
Re: (Score:2)
Filesharing can be done with MSIE, at least the downloading side of things. Perhaps they should go after Microsoft?
Actually, filesharing would be a lot harder if it wasn't for the TCP/IP stack. And if TCP/IP were to be banned, practically every ISP on the planet would be against such a move.
Re:Copyright as an election issue (Score:4, Interesting)
OTOH: The general public needs to be more forgiving when a politcian "flip-flops", consistency is an admirable trait but impossible for a leader that is willing to listen, learn and adapt to "changes on the ground". "Sorry I fucked up" should not automatically bring calls for resignation, impeachment, ect. (BTW: Don't take this as support for anyone in particular, IMHO some of the neo-cons deserve a CIA trip to ***stan for questioning).
Sadly, it wouldn't make a difference (Score:4, Insightful)
The unfortunate reality is that with the typical electoral system in the west, each election is decided on the basis of a very small number of very high profile issues. Things like economics, "defence", healthcare, and crime are tried and tested. Trendy issues — currently it's anything environmental over here in the UK — can also register significantly. However, minor things that still affect many people every day are rarely even considered. This is how things like IP and road traffic laws can reach a point where a very significant proportion of the population are criminalised for doing something that a majority of the population does not believe to be ethically wrong.
This will probably continue as long as we have this bizarre idea that politicians can predict before the election what will happen throughout their entire term of office. That simply isn't possible, unless their policies are never going to change depending on context. Consider the unpredictability of a world stock market crash or a plane flying into an iconic building, and unsurprisingly the reality doesn't always match up. It is silly to expect that it ever will, and we would do far better if political manifestos set out the principles and values supported by the each candidate, and reserved concrete policies for examples: "Under the current circumstances, I would therefore support this measure to provide further financial support to that group." We also need to get over this idea that any politician who changes his or her position on an issue is "doing a U-turn" and doesn't know what they stand for. Maybe the circumstances just changed? Maybe they came across better information, and revised their opinion in light of it? These are good things for politicians to do, as long as their actions are consistent with the principles and values for which they stood at election time. The idea that all politicians should have evaluated all information on all issues comprehensively before every decision they are asked to make is simply unrealistic, and I would rather vote for someone who acknowledged this and made a genuine effort to dot the right thing than someone who pretended they were omniscient and used this to attack their more considerate opposition.
Of course, such a principled election system would also show up some other problems with "representative" democracy in places like the US and UK today. As far as I can see, the major political parties in these countries are so closely aligned on many issues that someone who is fairly central but tends towards individual responsibility and capitalism rather than socialism and a large government simply has no-one to vote for who will argue their case. Given the barriers to entry in starting a new political party, this means a significant proportion of the population's voice is never heard.
Re: (Score:2)
(1) You have 100$ which is tax income
(2) You have two constituent groups which are both 50% of the population
(3) Your task is to divide the funds fairly between them
Now, the inexperienced politican promises them 50$ each, and if against all odds win gives it to them.
The experienced politicans will do the following:
(1) Through a series of veiled inconsistencies promise both 60$, to be delivered in healthcare or education or lower taxes or whatever. You'll f
Sometimes, honest and simple really is best (Score:2)
The irony is that honest politics that, for example, dramatically simplified the tax system in my country, really would save a fortune. The infrastructure costs of implementing all those special cases, with their separate collection and enforcement mechanisms, are significant. Just doing away with all of that and going to a system with a few, transparent taxes collected via a very small number of mechanisms would save a fortune in both personal taxes and business overheads. Pretty much everyone would benefi
Re: (Score:2)
I think my idea of good government would be closer to yours than to what we have today.
The big problem with an approach such as you describe is who provides the checks and balances? If it is to be illegal for the administration to act other than in accordance with the principles for which the people voted, then some degree of judicial oversight must be involved to decide when they have crossed the line.
Now, you basically have two options. You can have another round of elections to decide who gets to hav
Re: (Score:2)
That's not really what I mean, though. In fact, with only two choices, it's hard to see how a system could even get close.
If you reduce political principles to a straight a-vs-b choice, then pretty much the only distinction you could usefully make would be between individualism and collectivism. That is certainly a very important principle, which underlies many social, economic and political issues. But in the US, both major parties are so far towards the individualist end of that spectrum that they offer
Re: (Score:2)
No more laws (Score:5, Insightful)
I want a new directive. One that bans all member states from making any new laws for the next ten years.
Think about this for a second, think of one piece of legislation passed in the last ten years that has positively impacted anyone you know in the first world? I can't think of a single thing, not one, nothing. Maybe this is a failure of imagination on my part but on the whole laws in the last ten years have been mostly negative.
Maybe voting is declining in Britain not because of athapy, per se, but because people like myself our realizing the truth. Our politicians are powerless - they can't do a thing to change the plight of the average person on the street. They can raise taxes, lower taxes, pass all sorts of laws but they can't stop the dickheads burning people's bins or the fourteen year olds buying cider to vomit up on the street.
In short, what's the point in voting when both parties are equally as corrupt and when the decisions taken there never effect you? It's a powerful argument but not one I personally agree with. I vote not for myself but because a great many lives were lost trying to defend that vote. The tragedy is that this generation has come to find that their vote would be more productively used as toilet paper than a means of expressing your opinion.
We need a new sort of politics. A politics where local issues and common people are listened to. A politics where the career of the politician matters less than serving their constituents. A politics where issues are not decided based on the party your belong to but what improves the lives of the people of the country. We need a politics where an honest politician is not considered an oxymoron. We need a rupture from the past and we need it more urgently than ever before.
Simon.
Re: (Score:1)
Party politics is a bastardisation of democracy.
I'll vote for anybody who promises to introduce a "None of the above" option in Britain... or I would if I believed them!
Re: (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:No more laws (Score:5, Insightful)
The general public has a tendency to not want to spend money on anything that doesn't directly effect them, so they won't care if the police department looses its funding unless they've recently been robbed, they won't care about the money going to schools unless they currently have or plan on having kids in the immediate future, they won't care about the parks unless they live by them. This would only pose more problems in the long run unless the general public suddenly becomes smart, which I don't think can happen.
As the T-shirt reads, "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Re: (Score:2)
I have had thoughts along these lines. I was thinking... maybe 10% of your taxes could be directed where you wanted? Even if all those 10% went to something really stupid (like sports), the other parts would only be hurting, not destroyed. And by that hurting, the general populace would probably learn what it means not to have the police around, or the police would learn to be important to have around.
I agree going all the way in one step would be silly. Maybe in a hundred years ;)
Privately, I hope this w
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I rather think that would just end up lowering the taxes 10%. Such cuts would have to be financed... and while I'd happily point out where those 10% could be saved, I don't think my suggestions would be applauded by the broad populace :)
However, directly allocating just the 10% might get more people interested in national finance, and kill some of the current loathing of politicians and apathy that is poisoning our democracies. On the other hand, it might not, of course.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
well, i like this one [wikipedia.org]
this one [wikipedia.org] is also very good. unfortunately the member states prefer to ignore this one.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
This is where most people here completely misunderstand the EU. Member states implement EU directives via laws introduced by their own parliaments, with the wording of law therefore very much down to the individual country (with the exception of directives relating to the Common Agricultural Policy). A member state can't completely ignore an entire directive indefinitely, but they can water-down or tighten-up a directive as they see fit (the word "di
Re: (Score:2)
remember the story with the airline passenger data transfers?
the data was transferred although it was unlawful and everybody knew that.
the european court of justice has decided, after two years, that it was unlawful.
the eu countries still transfered data after that.
remember the story with the german policeware.
it is unlawful and everybody knows that.
but the politicians don't give a damn - the polic
Re: (Score:2)
Re:No more laws (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You know I like a lot of what the Lib Dems stand for, but I just can't see what is so good about proportional representation. As far as I can see it would lead to:
Re: (Score:2)
As opposed to our current system with 2 virtually identical parties vying for the politically-correct centreground, closing their minds to many new ideas for fear of losing votes from certain sectors? The current system is worse than coalitions would be. Whatsmore, at least with coalitions, there would be a lot more small parties in the commons that could
Re: (Score:2)
Thanks for replying. You make a lot of points, and I hope you'll forgive me if I go through them one by one - I'm not so much disagreeing with you as articulating some long held doubts about proportional representation.
I'd say the current consensus is simply where British politics is at the moment -
Re: (Score:2)
I disagree. Had Labour not had the ridiculous majority they still enjoy, nothing like as many bad reforms would have been put through, we'd be less close to Europe (because of UKIP's influence), taxes would be lower (Gordon Br
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
A 'strong government' is the government's way of saying a 'government that has too much power', as far as I'm concerned. Look, politics should reflect the debates people are having in real life. Laws *should* be hard to pass, coalitions *should* have to be formed to get them through; that represents a majority of people ac
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Not voting means that you accept _any_ government that may be elected, which means that you are accepting the fact that an extreme-right or extreme-left government may win the election.
Personally, I _always_ vote, generally for the party I dislike the least, and not because I care who wins from the generally accepted parties, but simply because I do _not_ accept extreme left/right parties getting a larger sha
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
A big problem would be working out how many non voters are "don't care" and how many are "none of the above". Unless these are explicit on the ballot.
A low voter turnout robs the government of legitimacy.
It could also be a sign of things such as lack of diversity amongst candidates. Which makes it more likely that a voter will be unable to find any candidate who actually represents his or her views.
In my opinion null votes should count towa
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Unfortunately this will never be possible in western society : such a system would destroy any status-quo that enables a ruling class of those-more-equal-than-the-others to maintain power.
Re: (Score:1)
It would seem that way. Most laws are designed to cement the illegality of things that would otherwise be immoral, or directly associated with other illegal activities. Ergo, the the
Re: (Score:2)
Well on the 3rd of May I'll have the choice of at least seven parties on the regional list, all with a reasonable chance of being elected. But the constituency vote is the same old nonsense where I have to vote Lib Dem to keep the Tories out. I think there's room for improvement here...
Re: (Score:2)
Of course they can. For those specific problems, for instance, they could make more money available to the police for recruitment and training and cut the amount of paperwork they have to do, targets they have to meet, et
Re: (Score:2)
Now this anti-fair use law, and the whole 24x7 police monitoring thing in the UK from a few weeks back.
Maybe I'm dwelling on the negative, but when was the last time we saw some legislation(not a court ruling) in Europe
"Harmonizing" usually is a lobbying issue (Score:3, Informative)
I mean, don't bite the hand that feeds you. Makes sense, doesn't it?
The great lie (Score:1, Insightful)
That's the lie that has continupously been used to increase copyright law for copyright holders. That's why copyright term was extended in the US - "to harmonize" with german/european law. They needed to "extend it" because the nazis suspended copyright during WWII. So th US law had to be extended to match their term length.
However, if you notice, copyright law was not suspended in the US during WWII.
Criminalization (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Inciting, Aiding Copyright Infringement a crime (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows contains a CD ripper, there is no fair use in EU law, you are not allowed to rip CD, Windows is a commercial product, this fits the commercial scale aiding of piracy. It is no different from any other copying device. So how about we demand the criminal prosecution of Microsoft?
BSA was a strong backer of this law, essentially to protect Windows. So it would be fitting if we could get Microsoft as it's first victim. Nokia next, their phones can play MP3s. They also backed this law.
You may have difficulty getting enforcement, since this is a dipshit law and the policemen know it, but you can often file Ombudsman complaints against the police if they fail to enforce the law in some cases but not others.
This is a golden time, every major backer of this law is guilty of some infringement of it. You don't even need to be the copyright holder to file a complaint under this law! How cool is that? A law so vague every MP3 makers, duplicating machine maker, computer maker, phone maker, search engine maker, is guilty of violating it.
Re: (Score:2)
you think they didn't think of this? (Score:2)
Great! (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
I think he just forgot the <sarcasm> tags.
It's easily done. I do it all the time
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
I don't know who flamebait'd you, but they don't understand sarcasm.
Looks like they came back as well.
Has nasty implications (Score:4, Insightful)
It could be a blog software with a vulnerability that some dev has no time to fix, or it could be some new secure p2p IM service with a casual file transfer built in. Any other software manifestation that carries with it honestly wonderful intentions can be construed as criminal in the hands of its users.
How does the opensource community, comprised of software authors with no legal protection, manage to protect their continued activities? Does anyone else fear the implications this has for entire opensource OS's and kernels that could somehow be construed as having code that "aids piracy" in some remote fashion? Softmac support in the form of people on wifi hotspots is one example I can think of.
Re: (Score:2)
Some other links (Score:2, Informative)
The FFII [ffii.org] and the Vrijschrift.org Foundation [ipred.org] tell us some more about how bad it could be.
The big one as far as I'm concerned is ``incitement to infringe'', which could open software writers to massive problems.
Re: (Score:2)
Hahaha (Score:1)
I don't understand: isn't this good? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm all for legalizing free, noncommercial share of copyrighted information (that is, what it's called "end user piracy" today). As far as TFA says, it seems Europe now explicitely protects the end user right to share copyrighted information: something that previous Italian legislation, for example, explicitely *criminalized*, instead.
It seems to me that the law bans commercial, money-making piracy (that's OK for me). As for the "banning p2p software", I've not found clear references. Can someone explain me better?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I don't understand: isn't this good? (Score:5, Informative)
So now E.U. citizens have the explicit right to make private copies for personal non-profit usage (something in line with the Betamax decision on U.S.), but infringement, complicity and incitement to infringement on commercial scale now holds harsher penalties. Slashdot groupthink like to imagine that they are the center of the world, and every piece of legislation is there to restrict their freedom, is aimed to them but in fact, this legislation main target is not even technological "IP" infringement, but good and old school counterfeiting of goods like clothes, bag and perfumes, that happens to be a big issue to France, for instance.
I'm all for both freedom for private personal copies and jail penalty for petty criminals that sell counterfeit CDs, DVDs and Dolce&Galbanna clothes on flea markets. The fact that this legislation could be interpreted as bad for the likes of YouTube is purely incidental, a side effect that can or cannot be interpreted this way. Now, cut this "MPAA bought E.U." bullshit. You nerds are not the center of the world, and pointing fingers to Venezuela, China, Brazil, E.U., Iran will not make U.S. problems go away.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Thanks for the link. In fact, it seems the legislation is not that bad. For example the justification of Amendment 3:
It should be made clear that the involvement of injured parties in investigations carried out by the police or public prosecutors' offices must not jeopardise the neutrality of those state investigation agencies. Maintaining objectivity and neutrality is part and parcel of the rule of law.
states basically that MPAA and RIAA cannot go berserk ignoring the neutrality of laws.
Amendment 16
Re: (Score:2)
No, that's not what this means. It means it isn't a criminal offence for them to do so; they can still be sued by the copyright holder, they just aren't going to prison for it.
Do it on a commercial scale, and you end up in prison. This is already the case in most EU countries, I think, so I'm not sure what the directive changes. The FIPR objects [fipr.org] on the grounds that it extends criminal liability to intentional
Re: (Score:2)
Everybody is talking but nobody read the actual legislation. I know, I know, I'm not that new here on Slashdot, but it is still amazing the ammount of ignorance that can be derived from so few people.
On ThePirateBay case (and other trackers), as on ot
Re: (Score:2)
(I am European, but not an expert in Europolitics but...)
IIRC, this is a "directive" and, as the word suggests, is simple a request that the European member nations create the relevant laws to implement them. The EU has no power to make laws (yet), so only when this directive is implemented in law in the country you live in are you protected.
Clarification of the term "directive" (Score:1)
A EU directive is quite different than "a simple request" to EU member states, though you are partly right. A directive is binding for all the member states to which it is addressed (in this case; all member states), but it does not specify the measures that should be taken, only the goals. Thus, the member states are obliged to implement measures in their own national law that will achieve the goals set in the directive.[1]
[1]
Re: (Score:2)
Here are a couple of consequences of the text [ffii.org] as voted by the EP. This directive was not and has never been about piracy (although some lobby organisations have tried to hijack it for that purpose). It is only about EU competence extension [edri.org].
And fwiw, it does not exclude private users from criminal sanctions. The approved amendment reads:
Re: (Score:2)
I guess we have to wait actual implementation in member states.
Never (Score:1)
thoughtcrime (Score:3, Insightful)
Excepting end-users doesn't alleviate this at all, especially since almost all end-users also upload copyrighted material in todays P2P networks (hence the acronym).
Since anyone can write a simple P2P system in a few hours and using just a few hundred lines of code, and since such a client could be applied for all kinds of legal and sensible uses like distributing patches, podcasts, etc, I find it a horrible idea to potentially send people to prison for writing such a system.
I agree that copyright infringement should be punished, but in light of the high usage of P2P systems no government acting in the interest of its people should criminalize such huge percentage of the people it represents. There has to be a real compromise between the content creators/owners and the end-users in whose interest governments should ultimately act. And sending people to prison or fining them many thousands of euros for illegally downloading digital content just doesn't seem that interest-protecting for the people to me!
Harmonise??? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Hardly restricted to the EU, especially in the context of copyright, is there even one example of a copyright treaty which resulted in a r
Piracy of what? (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't tend to pirate software any more, as there's simply no need. There is an OSS tool for just about every job, and many of them are getting to the point (finally) where they're actually up to the standard of commercial software.
The only commercial software I need tends to be small utilities (which usually have an honest developer who deserves the money) and Windows (It's too much like hard work to pirate it and keep it up to date anyway)
Music - rips are very often bad quality or difficult to get hold of - if it's available on iTunes for 99p then I'm willing to pay that to save the hassle.
Which just leaves anime. I must admit, although fansubs are technically illegal (presumably) I greatly prefer them to dubs. And the easiest way to get 'em is to download 'em. If Jump were to supply downloadable subs of Naruto themselves (translated in a proper fan-like fashion, not a dub-like one i.e. I don't want to read "Believe It!" every 10 seconds) then by all means the money would be theirs.
Re: (Score:2)
Exception: I've been known to copy rental DVDs for personal use. Even then there's no point really as I very very rarely get around to re-watching anything. Anything t
Vault Disney (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
I refer back to my point on anime in the previous post. Ironically, it seems that the one I was talking about (Naruto) is available from first glance although I think it has to be imported from the US (bleh) and I have a feeling it'll have the "Americanized" subtitles (if you see what I mean, i.e. over-translated). Plus it's shockingly expensive to buy a full series!
Re: (Score:2)
Assuming the material in question is available on DVD in the first place. Even if it is you may be faced with spending plenty of time, trouble and money to get hold of a DVD only available somewhere else in the world.
Being able
First reading only (Score:3, Informative)
I would point out that most member states of the EU already crimialize "comercial" copyright infringment, and thus this could be seen as an attempt to "harmonizing" EU wide law. I would also point out the proposed directive would require member states to ensure fair use rights, something several member states don't do, starting with the U.K.
Mod parent up (Score:2)
I wish that those that posted these types of news would tone down the sensationalism and hysteria. "EU bans this and that" type of news are becoming quite common on slashdot while having little support in reality. The political process
Open Source Avocation + Pirating = Bad (Score:2)
I know most of you feel that software should be free and by pirating it you force the other guys to give you free software, but in the long run it doesn't help. If you are going to be an Open Source advocate you really should try as much as possible to use the Open Source and free alternatives as much as possible, if no Open Alternative exists that fits your needs either make it yourself or more re
Re: (Score:1)
Lobby directive is (Score:2)
The head of this whole thing is Janelly Fortou, which coincidentally is the wife of the Vivendi CEO.
Or in other words, this is a lex vivendi!
It still has been pushed somewhat into saner waters, the original proposal would have been desastrous, even patent infringements would have been included (just to satisfy some pharma companies), even pro patent lobbyists like Microsoft (which do a lot of lobbying over here for pro software paten
Liberal Democrat MEP's views (Score:3, Interesting)
Interestingly, my UKIP MEP, Roger Knapman, also voted against...
Thank you for your email of 23rd April 2007 regarding the directive on
criminal measures aimed at ensuring the enforcement of intellectual property
rights. The infringement of intellectual property rights, such as
counterfeiting and piracy is a growing phenomenon which has a serious
economic effect on the global scale. The Commission proposed this directive
to offer additional provisions to strengthen and improve the fight against
systematic infringement of intellectual property rights.
Although I am not a member of the Legal Affairs committee which has
discussed this directive, I am indeed aware of the matter and share a number
of your concerns about its current drafting. There is general agreement to
remove patents from the scope of the directive, and I believe it should be
further restricted. To this end, my Liberal Democrat colleague Sharon Bowles
MEP tabled a number of amendments for the vote in the European Parliament
which are concurrent with the aims of the Librarians', Consumers' and
Innovators' Coalition amendments.
I understand that Sharon has sought to address the current wording of
Article 3 which stipulates that "Member States shall ensure that all
intentional infringements of an intellectual property right on a commercial
scale, and attempting, aiding of abetting and inciting such infringements,
are treated as criminal offences". In its place, Sharon proposed that
"Member States shall ensure that all intentional infringements of an
intellectual property right on a commercial scale, or wilfully and
specifically aiding of abetting or inciting such infringements, are treated
as criminal offences when there are aggravating circumstances of organised
crime, counterfeiting, piracy or serious risk to health or safety". This
clarifies that innocent or unknowing assistance to infringe is not covered
and also restricts the scope of offences to which criminality could apply.
A second concern is one of definitions. Although I gather the Librarians',
Consumers' and Innovators' Coalition amendments have done a fair job at
establishing definitions, I do believe it far better to remove the
definitions from the text completely. This to my mind is safer and allows
judges to dismiss cases that might otherwise be caught by specific
definitions. For this reason I supported Sharon's amendment which eliminates
definitions.
Unfortunately, in the vote in the European Parliament on Wednesday 25th
April, a number of these amendments did not pass and subsequently the Group
I lead voted against the directive. But, realistically I believe there is
some way to go before we will know the final shape of this legislation as
this is just the first reading but I hope this answer is reassuring that
Liberal Democrats in the European Parliament take your concerns seriously.
Please do not hesitate to get in touch should you require further
information.
Yours sincerely,
Graham Watson MEP
Member of the European Parliament for South West England and Gibraltar
and Leader of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe
How they can *criminalize* anything... (Score:2)
This is complete nonsence and incompetent law again introduced by clueless politicians who are doing NOTHING useful to countries and people they represent. How usual these days
If by "stricter" it means "more relaxed" ... (Score:4, Insightful)
There are some important parts there, that helps to clarify and protect private copying, while harmonizing the legislation among the members states to fight the real threat that this legislation aims: counterfeiting of real world trademarked and copyrighted goods. Here are some important parts of this amendments:
Now, again, let's comment on that. How is that bad for fair use, private copying, etc? It is exactly THE OPPOSITE of what is being stated in the summary of this article, it defines explicitly fair use, right to private copying and creates a legal framework for the IP holders to be able to assert their rights, while protecting the citizens against baseless suits.
And, as a side effect of that, it legalizes the legal parallel importing of goods, making the ones like Lik Sung (sic) to be able to operate on E.U. territory. See below:
Re: (Score:2)
The explicitly excluded patents from this directive, on its whole body. Now, what were you talking about again?
Btw, I agree that software (and ideas, in general) should not and must not be patentable. But STFU and read the legislation first, com
Science Fiction coming true (Score:1)
http://www.amazon.com/Noir-K-W-Jeter/dp/0553576380 [amazon.com]
The book itself was good but I thought that copyright crime as a capital offence was a fun idea but just a step too far away from reality to be believable.
Not now. Science Fiction can tell the future and it's not one I like.
The European commission and parliament is turning into a bureauc
first thoughts... (Score:2)
I would like to say, however, that I am in favour of criminalising copyright infringement. It is theft, right?... well thats what the BPI/RIAA keeps telling me... Just think about the implications for it though; if it is a crime then there needs to be (unless they make it strict liability) mens rea and
Politics as a method of investment (Score:2)
People like to break down economies on a national level or a federation of nations level. That's fine and very useful to look at. Another way, though, to look at an economy is by sector.
In many regions, the economy of a certain type of good or service breaks out ahead of the economy as a whole. Other parts of the economy get pegged to that commodity and are traded against it. The economy of that one sector can be said
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
In the name of providing video sharing services or Search engines, these sites indulge in mass copyright violation that requires the owners of copyrights (server admins) to set things like robots.txt etc.
Re: (Score:2)
However, in contrast to the US the EU seems to be less about money and more about talking and (mis)information - the advantage is that non-corporations can play that game, too.
Correction (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Freedom in society means absolutly NOTHING
Only if you believe that freedom is a digital, on or off, affair.
If you think that there can be degrees of freedom, or even separate conflicting axis of freedom then the idea of freedom in society is not such a meaningless concept.
At the risk of upsetting the Merkins, only "absolute freedom in society", or indeed "absolute freedom" is an oxymoron.