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Censorship Your Rights Online

Fuji TV Shuts Down Iron Chef Fansites 196

Posted by jamie from the isn't-even-news-anymore dept.
psiwave writes: "Following the growing trend towards corporate ineptitude, Fuji Television has smacked every fansite of that oh-so-popular Japanese food-fighting show, Iron Chef, with a cease and desist order. Since June 1st, IronChef.com, IronChef.net and every other fansite of any merit has been ordered to remove all Fuji-owned IC graphics and sound (though none of these sites are for-profit). It seems that rather than embrace the show's growing (and somewhat fanatic) Internet fanbase, Fuji is hoping to alienate and disillusion it." (CT: I love this show. This makes me grumpy)

The Ass, The Dog And Their Master

A Dog and his Master's Ass, having grown acquainted over the years, had become great friends, though the Ass spent many long hours ploughing the fields, and the Dog mainly lay about with little to do. One day the Dog decided that the work of his friend the Ass was quite remarkable and under-appreciated. Taking a bushel of grain from the year's harvest, he proclaimed to all passers-by: "O, just look upon the work of my friend the Ass! Is it not remarkable!" Some onlookers did make comment on the quality of the grain, whereupon the Ass brayed in delight. Yet upon returning home, the Master found two handfuls of grain missing, and thereupon beat the Dog soundly, chained him up, and warned the Ass never again to countenance thievery.

Moral...
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Fuji TV Shuts Down Iron Chef Fansites More

Fuji TV Shuts Down Iron Chef Fansites

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  • It could be a control thing. I remember a few years ago Bill Watterson going after anyone with a website remotely connected to Calvin and Hobbes. He either shut them down or incorporated them with his official site.

    Practically, it also may serve to block negative web sites as well.

    Ban them all and let slashdot sort them out.

  • Re:this is a trademark issue (Score:3)

    by Biff Cool ( 18858 ) on Tuesday June 06, 2000 @09:32AM (#1021658)
    Non-Profit falls under fair use, so do fan sites... they're screwing their fans.

    Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking.

  • The above post (the one that starts with "That's a mighty nice sentiment.(link)" [slashdot.org]), though at 0 and posted by an AC, is far more intelligent and insightful than the idiotic +3 Troll it is responding to.

    Oh, and to the idiot moderators who modded the Troll up... wake up!!! This moron has been posting for months as an AC and he always starts his post with... "I used to work for a..." He's just trying to put a cat among the canaries, and it is really sad when Slashdot has sunk so low that moderators are falling for this!

    Trust me, the guy never worked for a licensing company.

  • Well *MANY* people working in the manga and anime fields in Japan got their start making doujinshi (fan-created comics, frequently of very high quality) and selling them at the Comic Markets.

    It's basically the minors - why crack down on the next generation of professionals?

    Wish that more American companies were as smart about this sort of thing.
  • Well, it seems like the issue behind fuji's demands are somewhat similar to the whole metallica/napster fiasco. After all, both metallica and fuji tv are LEGALLY entitled to protect their copyrighted products. At least with metallica, though, it's likely that they could be put into a "losing money" situation. What are people going to do, look at pictures of the Iron Chef logo instead of watching the Iron Chef on TV?
  • This cannot be the way.

    So what if XXXXXXXX is trademarked? Does that mean that people can't go to a public place and yell out XXXXXXXX is great/sucks?

    As long as they don't say "I am XXXXXXXX, yes the very one from YYYYYY", or say stuff which would wrongfully harm many people significantly things should be fine.

    Should USENET/Dejanews/Slashdot/etc be constrained because people are talking about XXXXXXXX? No!

    Should we allow them just because they are text only, and prevent people from discussing it if they include other stuff? NO! Because this would prevent us "talking/thinking" in multimedia form in the future.

    Even at present much of our communications is moving to become more storeable and reliably copyable. In the future there will be more and more of this- we could for example have "telepathy" via http over bluetooth.
    e.g. visit my mindsite dude and see what I saw my pet do yesterday, login for better access if you're my friend, here's the url, etc etc.

    Perhaps in the future we will discuss stuff by speech and exchanging links to each others mindsite.

    So what happens if we want to discuss XXXXXXXX in public? Force people to only log on to discuss?
    What happens if I allow EVERYBODY to log on to discuss it? You mean I can't be open with some of my thoughts?

    There should be no such thing as "intellectual property". Your thoughts remain your thoughts and your responsibility. Our thoughts remain our thoughts and our responsibility. No one should own other people's thoughts.

    If that's the case what laws should stuff like this come under?

    How about:
    Thou shalt not steal
    Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour[1]
    Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house etc

    So if you thought of something, and I said that it was my idea then I am bearing false witness. Same if I said something untrue about you.

    And in this case the website owners are not stealing stuff from Fuji TV. In what way were Fuji TV damaged?

    The old laws are fine. For at the core people are still the same. We change other things so that we don't have to change.

    The current "newer" laws are just cached computations by respected authorities on how to implement the old ones in various scenarios. And though good they may have been it seems that some of them should now be expired out of the cache.

    In the scenario where the implementations of present laws seem to no longer be good, things should be changed.

    Cheerio,
    Link.

    [1] It's even more obvious we are all neighbours nowadays. At most we're a second or so apart on the Net, less than 72 hours apart physically.
  • Actually, the "Tee-Hee chick" is a world known wine expert. she is a actress, but she also has one of the largest wine collections in the world. thats the main reason why she's on the show. (also that explains why its funny when she says something like "oh! are we having wine tonight? i like wine!"
    --Dave

  • Still cached copies around (Score:3)

    by dmccarty ( 152630 ) on Tuesday June 06, 2000 @10:52AM (#1021664)
    How nice of Google to keep cached pages...

    www.ironchef.com [google.com]

    and some sites not (yet) down:

    http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCi ty/1365/ [geocities.com]
    http://home.pacbell.net/ogytork /html/iron_chef.html [pacbell.net]


    --

  • Re:So? (Score:1)

    by BJH ( 11355 )

    Please see my reply to myself :)

    Basically, Fuji probably doesn't care about the rest of the world because it doesn't have to care about the rest of the world.
    As for the "why are they sending these out" bit, like I said in my other post, it could just be a knee-jerk reflex by the law firm.
  • Shush! Never mention that, or else someone will start going after google and having them delete their cached sites when stuff like this happens...
  • If it weren't for the fansites (especially in the early days), IRON CHEF would never have found the fanbase it has today. It has been off air here in the KTSF (san francisco) area for a while now...it is missed.
  • Coward-san very funny man.
    I see postings here. More than 14, and yet no Iron Chef sound files or pictures. Words work!

    Funny. Very funny.

    Now, back to golf.
  • Fukui-san? Yes, Ota? The Iron Chef Chinese has just added a dollop of caviar!
  • One thing to remember is that trademarks can be declared invalid if they are not defended. Thus Fuji *MUST* pursue violations of their trademarks, or lose them. Almost all of these sites were infringing upon Fuji's trademarked logos etc., and should have received a cease and desist on that simply because Fuji had to.

    This does not, however, explain why Fuju would want to be such jerks about copyrights, especially since many of the clips involved were well within the domain of the "fair use" clause (i.e., they did not duplicate the entirity or majority of the copyrighted material, they were presented for review and critical purposes, etc.). Remember, copyrights and patents don't need to be defended in order to remain valid -- though, in the case of patents, you must pursue the violation within x years (I forget the x) or you lose the right to pursue THAT PARTICULAR INFRINGEMENT (but not all other infringements).

    After all, it's not like Napster, where entire copyrighted songs have been placed online. I guess folks like Fuji have these law critters on staff that gotta justify their hefty retainers, and a minor trademark issue wasn't enough for them to justify the hefty sum they charged Fuji (shrug).

    -E

  • Let's not forget all of the things we read several months ago regarding copyright law. Even Linus has to occasionally be a jerk to protect his copyright. As I remember it, the way the law is written, if you don't aggressively defend your copyright(s) you could lose them. So basically the law forces people to become assholes.

    I'm not defending Fuji TV, just stating what seems to be a fact.

    Now I *LOVE* this show too. Can't get enough of it. And I think Morimoto San is gonna KICK BOBBY FLAY'S ASS.

    For the record, in the Irof Chef poll you guys did the other month, you got 2 of their names backwards.

    Also, it looks like they have a new Iron Chef Chinese. Chen Kinichi seems to have been replaced by some new guy with a Blue Suit. At least that's the way it looks from the promos I see for the Iron Chef NY City upcoming showdown.

  • Fuji TV and American fans (Score:3)

    by chandoni ( 28843 ) on Tuesday June 06, 2000 @10:59AM (#1021672) Homepage
    Fuji TV has been hostile to American fans for some time. Although shows from other Japanese networks that are rebroadcast here in SF usually have English subtitles, Fuji does not allow their shows to be subtitled. Their dramas (and Iron Chef) were subtitled for a while by local stations, until this was forbidden by Fuji's lawyers almost 2 years ago. Fuji's letter to their viewers [fujitv.co.jp] actually implies that it's illegal to watch their shows unless you're Japanese. Fuji is really hurting all their fans in America: both Japanese people who could pick up some English vocabulary from the subtitles, and Americans like myself who are studying Japanese.

    JMC

  • I think the Otaku defense only serves to further emphasize how poorly the people at Fuji understand marketing. They don't want rabid fans? People who live for the show? People who take every opportunity to tell others about Iron Chef and recommend they watch it? Fuji would do well to take a lesson from the model of Babylon 5, X-Files, Star Trek, the Simpsons, and Reboot. All dependent on a core of fans who have sustained a lasting interest in each program, sometimes well past the end of it's broadcast life.
  • I feel that I should have a right to comment on shows that are in the public domain.

    And you do. Their right to prevent unauthorized use of their images and sound clips in no way impinges on your right to comment.
  • Battle Frogfish (first one). Food Network viewers will never see that episode, as it was before the international version of IC.
  • Food Network is highly advertising the special edition coming up June 25th, I believe, with Morimoto versus Food Network's own Bobby Flay. How much of the C&D orders are legal, given that Food Network is making their own episode? I mean, can the fan sites simply say they're getting the images and logos and stuff from Food Network and not FujiTV or whoever? If more of these special episodes follow, or if it's adopted for American TV, how does the legalese of the issue apply? I understand FujiTV holds the rights to the show and all, but how much of that is applicable if Food Network starts to do their own? Curious for perspective.
  • Seems to me that this would fall under the Japanese laws, and the laws in Japan covering copyright might not be the same as the laws we are used to in the US. Anybody know how the Japanese laws read?

  • Iron Chef IP?!? (Score:3)

    by Anomalous Canard ( 137695 ) on Tuesday June 06, 2000 @09:32AM (#1021678)
    Calling this stuff "Intellectual Property" really stretches the meaning of the word intellectual practically beyond all recognition.

    Anomalous: inconsistent with or deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
  • While the company is within it's legal rights to dictate how people who don't have permission use their intellectual property, this is anything but productive.

    If it wasn't for the net, I never would've heard of this show.
  • Just what we need, more letters ordering Slashdot to remove copyrighted content [slashdot.org].
    First our comments, then our polls!
  • How could I have overlooked what sounds like a pretty cool show?

    Seriously, never heard of the Iron Chef before...anybody got any *working* links to any fan sites? I'd like to see what its all about.

    I don't have cable....hmmm....maybe that's why. Guess I should refrain on commenting about the "Rights" aspect, since I have no idea what the show is about. ;-)

  • Possibly...

    However, there is a lot of precedent for "fan work" being allowed to slip by, and a company still being able to protect their trademark. The website ironfist.com may be going a bit far, but a site called ironfistfanclub.com would probably be fine, even though it is still technically a trademark violation.

    IANL, but there's a lot of sites similiar which set precedent. tmbg.org, the They Might be Giants (unofficial) fan site. Hundreds of Sailor Moon fan sites, too numerous to list. www.ranma.org, a ranma fansite.

    All in all, there appears to be plenty of precedent for fan sites, clubs, etc. to "use" the trademark without getting in trouble, yet the companies can still enforce these trademarks. Why? Probably the non-for-profit nature and the fact that they are referencing the actual product the trademark refers to.

    Regardless, I sincerely doubt that this "crackdown" is necessary.

  • There was an Entertainment Weekly article about IC last March, I think, and right now it's Food TV's second or third rated show - so quite coincidentally all the websites (and yikes! -all- of them, it seems...) get shut down?

    Where on earth is the logic in this? I personally enjoy the show so much more now than I would have without the host of web pages, because I was able to go to ironchef.com and read all the charming little tidbits of information, because I was able to find the intro music and food unveiling .wavs for my startup and shutdown music... I wouldn't enjoy it half so much without knowing about Kaga's past (and his input regarding his outfits) and the previous Iron Chefs and Nobu and the judges and everything else...

    Food TV's handful of pages [foodtv.com] ought to be updated -soon- at least. *sigh*

  • Per the thread a few days ago... if you can't say something nice about someone... or this show...
    It MUST suck! {I've never seen it, and now that thier lawyers have proven it sucks, why would I??)
    --Mike--
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I hadn't heard of it.

    Now I will be certain to never watch it, irrespective of how good it might have been. Some priciples are worth standing up for, and copright abuse (legal or otherwise), which this clearly is, is most certainly one.

    Nice PR move, idiots.
  • Does it really matter whether or not he worked for a licensing company? The points he raises are valid (to a degree) whether he drew them from his own experience or somewhere else.
  • Not that hard to make Iron Porn a parody. parodies are quite well protected, legally.

    //rdj
    • Let's not forget all of the things we read several months ago regarding copyright law. Even Linus has to occasionally be a jerk to protect his copyright. As I remember it, the way the law is written, if you don't aggressively defend your copyright(s) you could lose them. So basically the law forces people to become assholes.
    This only applies to trademarks. Copyright is not lost unless you transfer it to someone else, whereas trademarks are lost if you don't defend them.
    _______
    Scott Jones
    Newscast Director / ABC19 WKPT
    Commodore 64 Democoder
  • This is an odd move. Most Japanese companies encourage fan sites. For example AIC (Animation Intl. Corp.) has GFX and Clips online that fans can grab. All they request is that you state that the items are used with permission. This is pretty standard practice.

    This looks like the standard Spelling Entertainment type move. (Read Squashing 90210 and Buffy Sites 101) One has to wonder if Fuji is behind it, or if Food Network is acting on behalf of Fuji.
  • Of course I spent time thinking it over. I wouldn't post without doing so. I guess I better clarify my position.

    My main point is this: Most of the time spent at the Iron Chef sites is on the narrative. I want the inside scoop, the info, the 411, or whatever you want to call it. That's what fan sites are all about. (IMHO) I can understand that those who run fansites are frustrated by this, but to take the site down completely, rather than just remove the pics and sounds for now, is pure laziness, and does no service to the fans, who are there for the information anyway. And for newbies, link to foodtv.com or other sites, post a schedule of the show, get people interested in checking it out. I don't think you need pictures and sound samples to do that.

    Here's a possible solution for all the fansites, remove the (c) stuff, keep all the info up, and at least *try* to get permission from FujiTV to use some logos or pics. You'd be surprised how many companies will allow you to use their copyrighted materials and images, with the proper disclaimers and copyright symbols in place. I've got logos on my site that are copyrighted. Know where I got them? From the coyright holder. And I have the letters of permission, to boot. It's not about censorship (wrong category, bad slashdot, no bandwidth!) It's about control. Fuji has a right to control their stuff.

    For sounds, pics and other things, look to FujiTV or FoodTV.com. For all the *juicy* stuff, go to the fan sites. If any are still up, that is.

  • How does it compare to, say, CNN or CNBC?

  • ehh? (Score:1)

    by niekze ( 96793 )
    Schuesan! seems the challengers are being shut down.

    Hmm i guess they can't compete with the Iron Hand....err i mean chef.

  • Some of the stories of this type revolve around copyright and some revolve around trademark. I assume these are not the same thing. (Any "IAAL" care to comment?) Fair use applies to copyright, but not trademark. Right? Also, people often mention an obligation for companies to protect their marks from dilution, in other words, forcing them to send C&D letters to fans. This only applies to trademark. Right?

    So, what is the issue here? I think it's important to understand the underlying issue before going nuts.

    And, if it is as it seems to me, and the issue here is trademark, then, what is an amicable solution to a law (protection against dilution) that forces companies to fight use of marks, or lose them?

  • this type of stuff happens all the time. Startrek took the same stance (paramount) where as Babylon5 (WB) let the Babylon5 sites flourish.
  • How much do you want to bet that they are planning to release an "official" fansite and do not want any of these sites stealing its traffic?
  • tee-heee. i didn't know that :)
  • Hmmm here's a thought. How about a fan site devoted to the G.I. Joe character Gung-Ho. Now... if ever there was someone who could be termed an Iron Chef, anyone with his supposed cooking skill who also lugged around a bazooka should qualify :)
  • I could be wrong.

    Yup. I haven't gone to see what these sites, that are allegedly in violation of this show's copyright, look like but assuming, for the moment, that they are really just fan sites then there should be a legal provision provided for these types of sites to exist without having to jump through all sorts of legal hoops. Otherwise fan sites are going to end up being just grey sites as envisioned by the digital divas [greyday.org].

    This strikes me as being mean spirited and morally bankrupt. I feel that I should have a right to comment on shows that are in the public domain. Corporations must be given less constitutional protection in the ew-ess. How about zero constitional protection. The lawyers, the corporate variety at least, should be summarily ... well it would be nice for a little while but no doubt there'd be lots to fill their shoes.

  • who the hell is this guy? He's got a weird haircut, funky shades, and actually knows a bit about food! And what's with the name?

    -------
  • Seems like they are ruling the net with an IronFist.com

  • Once upon a time, not very long ago, we were about to cancel everything except basic cable having, well, nothing beyond very basic needs in this age of high-speed internet access.

    Then, while clicking through one Friday evening of TV Wasteland, I stumbled upon this really bizarre cooking show. The name of it was Iron Something (I mean, am I allowed to use the trademarked name?). It was on the Food Network, which frankly wasn't a channel we ever watched much.

    But the show was awesome. Seriously, my wife and I were stunned; there was finally a decent reason to get cable! An actual reason to bother to watch TV. Something easily worth the $18 per month difference between basic and expanded whatever that we were getting. And we spread the good word to everybody we knew. My sister-in-law got a satellite dish just so she could watch the show.

    Despite my fairly dim view of television, the medium, I've always had the opinion that there were only two countries on earth where people had any idea about what to do with the medium. The first was the U.S., and the other, to my surprise, actually, was Japan. (I found this out while I was homesick for a week at a conference in Japan.) Of course, most Japanese programming is unknown in the U.S., so it was hard to tell people about it.

    But this cooking show was something you could point them to. Really, it was the first thing I could point at and say, "See? The Japanese have really done something excellent and new with TV."

    Almost everybody I preached to ended up loving the show. To one unlucky soul in a non-cable-possible household, I even made weekly tapes of the shows (commericals included, of course). We live in a small Midwestern university town, and we don't really get out very much. But I didn't care that much, as long as I could stretch out on the couch with the family on Friday and Saturday nights and watch the Theme Ingredient be revealed. My four year-old son can name all four chefs. He thinks that peanut butter "matches well" with chocolate milk.

    At some point early on in the craze, we did turn to the net for more info. And I did try out the food network site on the show. Alas, nothing much to see there (at that time). So I fired up the Good Old Search Engine and found the URL to ironchef.com. [ironchef.com] Like, wow. What a truly amazing site; what an awesome labor of love. Of course there isn't much to see there now; Ironstef (really, that's what she calls herself) has had to shut the thing down.

    I actually understand trademarks. I have sympathy for intellectual property laws, even if I don't always seek the same level of protection for my work. Intellectually, I completely understand why Fuji set their lawyers against the show's most enthusiastic fans. Some day, I might even be able to explain this to the four-year-old.

    More emotionally, of course, I wish I could tell Fuji to take their Iron-Fisted lawyers and put them in a tight warm smelly place. This new technique matches well with greediness. It probably won't kill the fishy smell. It really has killed any interest I had in the show.

  • Only if they sell merchandise. Like A signed autograph of that guy who bites the bell pepper. Or a T-shirt that says:

    My friend fought the iron chef and all i got was this louse old t-shirt.
  • Does this mean I have to remove the "Kitchen Stadium" sign from my stove?

    -carl
  • >Do news sites always "ask permission"?

    If they use sound, stills or video from anything copyrighted, then they must.

    >why can't they use clips under the Copyright's Fair Use Doctrine?

    The Fair Use Doctrine is basically intended to prevent copyrights from interfering with education. A fan website would be very unlikely to successsfully claim (and defend) a valid purpose of use to fall within the Fair Use Doctrine.

    >If sluggo simply took a picture of his TV while it was showing Iron Chef, then why does this constitute infringement? He's merely displaying what his TV displayed.

    Because what his TV is displaying is copyrighted, that is no different than using a video capture device.

    I personally don't like what Fuji TV has done, but it is completely within their rights (and the law) to go after people who infringe on their copyrighted material. The reason all of the sites backed down is because they realize that they have no legal footing to fight Fuji TV. At the same time if Fuji TV keeps this up they are just going to alienate the fans of the show and hurt themselves.
    -
  • this too shall pass.
  • Schuesan! Too bad, I already downloaded all the openings a month ago. My favorite fucking show, and they gotta act like this. Ask my girlfriend, I put off getting action until after Iron Chef every Friday.
  • Is that they want an apology and link to them on the 'offending' web site.

  • yea that tee-hee chick is annoying isn't she? She must be the actress for all those anime films. And why the hell do they have the fortune teller lady?

  • Argh. (Score:1)

    by dougman ( 908 )
    Add me to the list of people ESPECIALLY disappointed in the producers of my favourite cable TV show. This is bad, very bad.

    MEthinks I'll mention this tonight on Swindle Chat (8:00 PM EST on EFnet channel #theswindle)

    Damn. Damn. Damn. I really like this show. Now I'm gonna have to put up an illegal fan site.
  • This is mearly a trademark issue. A cease and desist letter is mearly "Fuji" doing something that they can present in court later when they do want to sue someone profiting from their work. (like the T-shirt guy) Basically they want to be able to say, "See we have been protecting our work."

    Rather than whining and giving up mearly write the attorneys a letter requesting permission to use files soley in a non-profit capacity for a fan web-site.

    If they refuse you after that, then they're being stupid, and losing on the free advertising opportunities you've given them.

    Personally the few mentions I have seen of this show on slashdot has made me want to see it, and the few times I clicked on the ironchef.com website was also encouraging.. but we don't get that in Canada..

    Anyway the moral of the story is, don't cave immediately to a cease and desist order, always ask if there is a better solution first. Then if they don't want to talk, give up. Or get your own lawyer whichever you feel more strongly about.
  • Fuji is certainly within their rights to exercise their legal options, but they could have come up with a freindlier means of protecting their intellectual property, such as providing "authorized" material to webmasters or showcasing prominent fan sites on their own page. Good word-of-mouth is the best and cheapest marketing one can hope for, and this kind of move will only serve to wipe out that net-based buzz.

  • "uh...Fuji-san, I think what the Iron Chef is trying to do is fry their fan base so as to prevent any visitors from coming to their new website..."

    dc


    --
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Re:this is a trademark issue (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Then this whole trademark buisness is rotten to the core and must be changed. Soon noone can use any phrase or wording on a public web site or in a chat room without either doing a trademark search in advance OR risk being bullied by a bunch of boodthirsty lawyers. There must be a kind of "fair use" rules that allows using patented, copyrighted & trademarked stuff as long as the commercial interests of the trademark holder are not affected. Just my 1/2 cents
  • You mean we all get Aerolink (it's aerolink right? i don't remember) wireless ethernet bridges and dishes on our roof. That would seriously 0wn. Then we could call it the "Undernet" , but then Effnet and Dalnet would get jealous. But that would be cool. expensive though :)
  • Were ironchef.com not shut down, figuring out who Korn is would be a cinch (of course). Anyway, Korn is a Japanse musician who plays some sort of wierd Reggae-type music. He's under the Sony label (see his webpage here [sme.co.jp]. Also, interestingly enough, he's also the voice for "Chef" in the upcoming South Park Movie in Japan. No kidding. Anyway, as best I know, you can only find singles of his songs - no albums - from Japanese CD outfits online.
  • Another item they ordered in the C&D letter (at least the one that I've seen) was the removal of all links to other Iron Chef sites that contained infringing material.
  • I often went to ironchef.com to review the list of theme ingredients, to double check the name of the challenger from the previous week, and so on. The FAQ that was underway was also a very good one for viewers new to the show. I don't believe ironchef.com had much in the way of pictures (just a few) and I don't think there were any .wav files either.
  • Fuji TV has no gratitude. Stephanie Masumura has been running Ironchef.com since 1996. She has been a major source driving force bringing Ironchef into the mainstream, collection hundreds and thousands of fans along the way, even before Iron Chef began to air on Food Network. Her site contained a few pictures about the cast and crew of IronChef, and not the gross violations that Fuji believes they are. Everything was used in the best interest to promote Iron Chef. I would also mention that Stephanie has either been quoted or interview in numerous publications such as Newsweek, San Jose Mercury News, Entertainment weekly, and even NPR (National Public Radio). Certainly this is publicity that has done no wrong for Fuji TV. Stephanie has done no evil for Fuji TV and Iron Chef. It is quite clear she has pioneered Iron Chef into the mainstream for Fuji. Fuji owes her, their gratitude. Fuji should thank her and not condone her. What Fuji has done is hardly reasonable.
  • I wish I could give this advice to everyone, but I'll post it here. This is very simple. I suspect Iron Chef wouldn't be very big (on US TV) without the Internet. Why? Because people who watch the Food Network aren't necessarily interested in a TV Show which focuses on "cooking as a pitched battle," and people who are interested in food as a pitched battle aren't necessarily expecting to find such a thing on the Food Network.

    So, by telling people on the Internet about the show, the Food Network gained viewers and so did the show. (I certainly wouldn't have ever watched it if I hadn't seen information about it on the Internet.) Now, I'm not going to watch the show anymore, and I'll be sending letters to Fuji and the Food Network explaining that. However, enough people know about the show now that it doesn't matter if they trample all over their hard-core fans. It's too late, I told my brother (for example) and when I tell him I'm boycotting he might stop watching... but then again he might not (my DVD boycott has had no effect whatever on his voracious appetite for those accurséd consumer goods.)

    The only solution to this is for people who want to start fan sites to have lawyer-letters saying they are allowed to do so before they do it. That way, if the companies say, "No, lowly wretch, you can't put up your pathetic fan page," you won't be in the even more degrading position you get later, which is, "Lowly wretch, how dare you praise our show!! Grovel before us and take down your miserable page," after you were one of the ones who propelled the show to popularity.

    Unlikely as it is, I hope people will consider joining my boycott of Iron Chef (which, coincidentally, I started watching after the Iron Chef poll here on Slashdot... has Slashdot recieved a "cease and desist" letter?). It's a great show, it is a pity creative people so often sell out their art to disgusting, depraved corporations.

  • Whats with the headline? "Fuji TV Shuts Down Iron Chef Fansites"

    Hmm... last time I checked, forcing sites to remove copyrighted graphics and sound was quite different from forcing them to shut down.

    Yeah this sucks. Fuji TV is being dumb. But on the other hand, wtf is with the headline. /. glorifies, dramatizes, and twists every story these days.

    I'm gonna have to start looking for news other places if this trend continues. Any fellow rebels have a suggestion? ;-)

    Im SO tired of 'pirating good, metallica bad' ignorance. Don't go so fucking overboard guys!
  • Did anybody see the actual cease and decist letter?

    "We further demand that the Sounds website and its employees and agents immediately remove from its website all materials copied from the Iron Chef program and place a notice on the Sounds website acknowledging and apologizing for infringing Fuji's intellectual property rights and providing a link to the Television Food Network site regarding "Iron Chef" at: www.foodtv.com/tvshows/ironchefindex."

    Does this sound incredibly petty to anybody? Removing the infringing material is one thing but an apology and a required link? They have no right to demand that.
  • You are indeed correct and may now "xerox" you comment. However, by doing it this way, they are being more than a bit foolish. A more enlightened approach would have been to contact the folks involved in the sites and granted them a free license to use the material in the context of the non-commercial website. By granting the license, they would legally have retained control (thus insuring a profit when small plastic parts are given away with every meal by small plastic people selling small plastic burgers), while generating extra free exposure to their product. Alas, this is what happens when the legal departments engage in running things. Foolish responses to real problems.

    When all you ever have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

  • So? (Score:2)

    by BJH ( 11355 )

    The thing to remember here is that Fuji Television almost certainly *doesn't care* about the popularity of the Iron Chef series overseas. It's pretty much a dead horse here in Japan, and no matter what anyone might say Fuji makes enough money on the Japanese side of things to render any secondary income from redistribution overseas pretty much irrelevant.
  • Does Iron Chef have the right to do this? Certainly. No court could possibly say otherwise; this is clearly not a trademark dispute case.

    Is Iron Chef right to do this? No. Not in any stretch of the word, particularly not business-wise. As with almost all foreign (and even much domestic) media in the US, it is the fans who spread the word. To hand the fans this kind of slap in the face is simply the mark of an ingrate. These people did your marketing for you, for free, for no other reason than that they loved the show and wanted to see it succeed.

    Now, generally marketers are entitled to compensation of some sort. Obviously a fansite isn't entitled to monetary compensation; that's volunteer work. But is it not fair compensation to simply allow such a site to continue to exist?

    Certainly Fuji has a right to protect its trademarks. But do they really need protection from harmless fansites? Certainly not. Those fans are doing Fuji a favor, not the other way around. The letters Fuji TV wrote should have been thank-you notes, not cease-and-desist orders.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Time to lauch ironchef.com porn site (Score:3)

    by Sloppy ( 14984 ) on Tuesday June 06, 2000 @11:55AM (#1021752) Homepage Journal

    Just wait for Fuji to reverse hijack the ironchef.com and ironchef.net domains.

    Actually, considering this contemptuous move on their part, I think they should never be allowed to have the domains. Put up a computer news or porn site there instead. Unless the Iron Chef TV show happens to be porn, an ironchef.com porn site would not really be a trademark violation, since no one could possibly confuse the two. (Just as you can have a copper mine or a computer consulting firm or a real estate company called "McDonalds" without infringing on the trademark of the company that sells tasteless lumps of grease under that name.)

    That isn't to say they won't be able to hijack the domain anyway, but at least they wouldn't be able to use "trademark" argument without lying.


    ---
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • What saddens me is this is one of my fav shows. We just moved into a new apartment this past weekend, and we were finally able to get digital cable (yay!) which meant FoodTV which meant Iron Chef. No more borrowing videotaped shows from friends.

    I had perused ironchef.com and it was a very cool fan site. I could see if they were upset that they didnt have the domain name, and wanted to buy/make an offer for it so they could create their own info site, but to blast down the very people who have, in a large part, been the reason that this show has taken off in the US is sad. I am not even sure how the copyright issue can be stated, since it seems to fall under fair use. Ironchef.com only had a few stills, no video that I was aware of, and focused on the content of the show. Trademark dilution.. maybe, but it seems it would be hard to prove it in court.

    I am going to have to think long and hard about this one, I am really torn. I have written a letter of protest to both the Food Network and also to Fuji. I don't know what good it will do, but its worth a shot.

  • Once upon a time, I made a fansite [slashdot.org] about a different TV show [pbs.org]. The only copyrighted material I used was one picture of the main character (fair use 3) for non-commercial (fair use 1) purposes. I even linked to the official site (fair use 4).

    The copyright owners sent me a cease and desist letter. I took the image down within half an hour of checking my mail. I would later study the issue in more depth and discover that fair use is not infringement [cornell.edu]; cease and desist letters against obvious fair use can constitute harassment [aolsucks.org].

    So I asked for a license. They refused to give me one, claiming a possibility of defamation aka libel. Then I just took the site down and put a rant [tripod.com] in its place.

  • The Fair Use Doctrine is basically intended to prevent copyrights from interfering with education.

    If so, it's not working. A fansite's purpose is to educate the public about a story cycle.

    A fan website would be very unlikely to successsfully claim (and defend) a valid purpose of use to fall within the Fair Use Doctrine.

    Only because the © owners are big bullies with money to burn on lawyers.

  • Rather than whining and giving up mearly write the attorneys a letter requesting permission to use files soley in a non-profit capacity for a fan web-site.

    They'd be refused as I was refused. [slashdot.org]

  • Iron Chef (Score:3)

    by Shirobara ( 164922 ) on Tuesday June 06, 2000 @09:48AM (#1021782)

    I'm at work, else I'd try to dig up a working link from my bookmarks...the FoodTV site [foodtv.com] is sucky and bland (of course) but at least it gives you an idea.

    The deal is, you have this rich, foppish man (Chairman Kaga) who (so the story goes) spent his fortune to find amazing new cuisines. To do this, he built a giant kitchen, called Kitchen Stadium, and found four cooks who are the masters of their particular cuisines - one a Japanese chef, one a French chef, one a Italian chef, and one a Chinese chef.

    The show itself consists of a challenger (usually top chefs from top hotels or restaurants), whose background is described in detail by Kaga before the show, coming to Kitchen Stadium and picking one of the Iron Chefs to "battle." There is a "theme ingredient" for each show - some of them are mundane (tofu) and some of them are relatively exotic (mangoes!), and both chefs have to create a meal (usually consisting of four to six dishes) that best utilize and showcase this theme ingredient within an hour. While they cook, the panel of four people (two people who are always on the show, then two celebrities, including one AMAZINGLY ditzy actress) make comments and talk about what's going on. Finally, the two celebrities and two other guests taste the food that the challenger and the Iron Chef have made in the hour, and judge accordingly.

    It sounds so weird to describe it, and I know I have dissolved in laughter when I'm trying to tell someone about it more than once. The charm of it is that it's very serious, but it doesn't seem like it should be. Also, it's very exotic and just plain fun to watch. So check it out sometime!

  • but it HAS to be said....

    The theme ingredient for tonite is...........

    .....steaming hot grits!
  • It's time for legislation to be passed protecting the rights of a fandom website before more people are hurt. I find it sickening that the corprate assholes running the world create a marketing division (who's sole job is to make you fall in love with their product) and then turn right around and punish you with their legal department (...punished because you want to EXPRESS your love for their product). This type of hypocracy makes me gag on my own bile. Are we to be nothing more than a consuming robot? buy Buy BUY! But for God's sake don't talk about it! Salesmen used to love word-of-mouth advertising. Is that now illegal? And don't anyone give me that intelectual-property bullshit. In grammer school I was taught that the rights of the individual came first. It would seem that I've been lied to. You know, after my mom told me that Santa Claus wasn't real, I took comfort in the idea that my rights as an individual were protected in the constitution, and that those rights were real. Is anything real anymore? Corbin Dallas
  • Okay, I don't have cable but have heard good things about the show. I've never been to either web-site, so I can't evaluate the content.

    With that said, on with my opinion (which is worth as much as the electrons used to express it).

    Sound clips: What is the difference between using footage for a news site and footage for a fan site? Do news sites always "ask permission"? Fan sites definately attribute the source of the sound clip. Provided the site is not rebroadcasting the show in its entirety without the express written consent of Major League Baseball, the UN, and Fuji, then why can't they use clips under the Copyright's Fair Use Doctrine?

    Still photos: If sluggo simply took a picture of his TV while it was showing Iron Chef, then why does this constitute infringement? He's merely displaying what his TV displayed.

    What next, am I no longer allowed to say, "Ha" in a Japanese accent? Am I no longer allowed to describe what happened on last night's show around the water cooler at work?

    I know of only one way to fight corporate behavior like this: Write Fuji and tell them that you will no longer watch their show (although hopefully you have VCR tapes of the show which are legal under the "Time Shift" Copyright Fair Use Doctrine) and send a copy to your cable provider. Tell them you'll be reading a cook book anytime that a show airs and you're home. The only way to fight this bullshit is to hurt corporations where it hurts: The bottom line.

    Cheers,
    Slak

  • Licensing ... (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 06, 2000 @10:14AM (#1021789)
    I used to work for a licensing company. Their business is to sell the rights for other companies to be able to use images, likenesses, etc. of trademarks they represent. The licensing company also dictates where and when these likenesses are used and in what context. If anyone subverts that, no matter how pure and non-commercial the intent, it is still undermining the very business of licensing and is in violation of their trademark.

    If some schmo from Missouri decides to put Sn**py on his church's website and doesn't have to pay for it, MetLife will suddenly say to the licensing company, "Hey, why the frickin' crap am I paying for these Sn**py rights when this schmo from MO gets it for free?! I'm paying half from now on or I don't renew the contract and you get NOHTING!" The licensing company says, "WTF?! We didn't sell the rights to use Sn**py on some backwoods church's website, AND EVERYONE IN THE WORLD CAN ACCESS IT. Call the lawyers!"

    If you videotape a baseball game and play it on a TV in the middle of a public park, even if for free, that is still a violation. Licensing rights is a business. Subverting that business is illegal, whether the perpetrator is doing it for-profit or not.

    There is no free lunch. Most high school and college kids don't understand this because they don't have to support themselves. Yet. Many American adults don't understand this because America is stuffed full of morons who forget that everything manmade on this planet is the result of commerce! People do not give anything away for free unless it is to lure you to spend money on something else. Period.

    In Napster's case, it is giving away someone else's stuff, without signing a contract or receiving permission, so they can make money off advertising and Napster merchandise. Nice, huh?

    In this case, Iron Chef _could_ grant limited permission to the fansites, but they do not feel they would be able to make the same amount of money they would make from, say, Random House or Hallmark and they would not be able to exert full control over the use of the trademarks, which they feel they must be able to do. Remember, we're talking millions of dollars for rights, not 'Oh, I could pay you a hundred bucks to use Sn**py, right?' Millions. Each. Time.

    That said, I think that Parker and Stone had the right idea when they pleaded with Comedy Central NOT to go after all the South Park sites, instead letting the 'net buzz help the property overall with the occasional 'no, you've gone too far now take that down please' but I'll bet the licensing people were livid about that. They lose money, and you know how people are when they feel like they are being robbed.

  • It passes, but the damage is done. (Score:3)

    by Lemmy Caution ( 8378 ) on Tuesday June 06, 2000 @10:24AM (#1021798) Homepage
    Yes, it'll pass. These little slights to human enthusiasm and imagination will come and go. The 'owners' of popular culture will do whatever they can make happen - will lobby for the appropriate laws, when possible - to allow them to wrench every penny they can out of their products, even at the cost of the freedom of human expression.

    But the damage is done. Enthusiasms are punished. The work that people do to express their fondness for something gets reduced to naught. (How come so many defenders of the right of IP owners to 'make money from their work' never consider the value of the work of those 'downstream' from them?)

    This, to me, is one of the most subtle, yet most festering injustices of current times. In the years after the second world war, European thinkers used to remark that "the Americans have colonized our subconscious." (I'm focusing on the phrase "colonizing the subconscious," not the word "American," oh ye pedant who is compelled to tell me that Fuji is a Japanese company). Now, the owners of cultural property are trying to consolidate their conquest and turn it into franchise. The works of pop culture are *part of my subconscious.* I have dreams with Bugs Bunny and Gilligan's Island and Star Trek in it. Compelling images from TV and cinema have been flash-burned into memory. I quote films I've seen to comment on quotidian events with the same fluid ease that, I imagine, the ancient Athenians used to refer to Olympean deities. But the tycoons of culture can and will keep me from expressing the ebb and flow of these cultural elements, just to protect their profits. All in all, it's a more egregious slight on the liberty of the human spirit than most people will care to admit. It has to be stopped.

  • this is a trademark issue (Score:3)

    by SethJohnson ( 112166 ) on Tuesday June 06, 2000 @09:23AM (#1021799) Homepage Journal


    IF the owners of the Iron Chef franchise don't police the usage of their logos, graphics, etc. by third-parties, then they'll lose control over the Iron Chef trademark. This is not a case where a company is supressing its growing fan base. It's only doing what's necessary to prevent other people from profiting from the Iron Chef trademarks. Even though these particular sites aren't for profit, if the Iron Chef people don't step in here, then it sets a precedent for other people (probably operating with profit in mind) to be able to use the logos, name, etc.



    Seth

  • Corporations such as Fuji are no longer selling a particular product (such as a series of shows about cooking). Instead, they are staking their claim to a piece of culture, and then attempting to charge for all participation in that piece of culture.

    Their fear is that some significant amount of the Stuff in the quirkly little corner of idea-space named "Iron Chef" might some day be created and controlled by fans, instead of by Fuji. Perish the thought!

    These days our only common culture centers around TV shows, commercials, and other corporate-owned stuff. Thus regular individuals are increasingly prohibited from being full participants in their own culture. And this situation is due in part to a legal regime that is supposed to *encourage* creativity?

    Of course, copyright law does have safeguards built in; but we need to ensure that these safeguards are not forgotten. For that reason, we all need to understand the "fair use" exemptions and watch carefully to make sure that they are preserved and strengthened.

    ---Bruce Fields

  • Or course, ironchef.com was not actually removed [ironchef.com].

  • What are they THINKING??? (Score:3)

    by Animol ( 120579 ) <jartis@gm a i l . com> on Tuesday June 06, 2000 @09:25AM (#1021805) Journal
    I can understand complaining about the use of copyrighted images or sounds, etc., but think about it a little bit - as of recently, the amount of lawsuits raised against personal, non-profit websites (or other actions taken against them) has skyrocketed. What possible BENEFIT could come from spending your time and money to stop a free website from spreading your glory and bringing your name to the forefront of surfer's minds, without charging a dime for advertising?

    Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but if someone were to tell other people what a nice guy I was, I wouldn't beat the hell out of him for talking about me without my express permission.

  • As a B5 fan, I saw this played out a few times, each time with a ridiculous approach. B5 always took the approach of restrict yourself to fair use, properly acknowledge all copyrights and trademarks, don't do it for profit, and they'd leave you alone. Aparently, it was a major pain to get Warner Bros. to understand the concept of embracing the fans rather than alienating them, but they managed.

    It was amusing to watch Paramount go after all the Star Trek fan sites and shut them down, even the ones who had approached it in the same way that B5 recommended. Disney, too. Now, it's Fuji over the Iron Chef.

    I've seen it work. Set simple rules. Enforce them. Embrace your fans, and they will pay you back. Piss them off, and they'll burn you.

    Logic before laywers. And I work for lawyers...
  • "It's only doing what's necessary to prevent other people fromprofiting from the Iron Chef trademarks."

    If that's all it was, they could probably protect their interests by periodic review of the sites for objectionable uses. Documentation of the checks along with copies of letters requesting certain uses be discontinued should provide more than enough hard evidence to prevent the profiteers from legally hijacking their trademarks.

    carlos

  • First, yes, this is an "intellectual property issue." Fuji, in their infinite wisdom, sicced the lawyers on the fans to "protect" their property. This much I can dig.

    It was done badly. Telling your fans that everything they've been doing to support your entity is bad. If they're doing something you don't like, pull out the big legal stick, lay it across your lap, and then try to work out a decent arrangement that keeps everybody happy. Want to find out how bad it can get? Search the web for "The Asshole Formerly Known As Prince" and see what happenned with TAFKATAFKAP (The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Prince) when he had his lawyers pull the same stunt.

    Third:
    Jill Fairbrother
    Morrison & Foerster LLP
    425 Market Street
    San Francisco, CA 94105-2482
    tel: (415) 268-7000
    fax: (415) 268-7522
    email: fairbrother@mofo.com
    url: www.mofo.com

    I recommend a polite letter to Ms Fairbrother expressing the poor judgement of this action in polite terms. DO NOT harass the poor woman for doing her job, but do suggest that she offer her client options for allowing the fan sites to operate with approved material, and let the fans help the client like they want to.

  • weiners!


    Pope

    Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!
  • Does this sound incredibly petty to anybody? Removing the infringing material is one thing but an apology and a required link? They have no right to demand that.

    Well, actually, they can demand that you paint yourself blue, put on a tutu and go dance live on Fuji TV if they want to. If the sites have indeed violated Fuji's copyrights, Fuji could immediately start legal action based on what has already happened, instead of giving the violator an easy way out.

    (Not that any of this makes Fuji's actions less stupid, but...)

    Cheers,
    -j.

  • The right and wrong (Score:5)

    by Dark Paladin ( 116525 ) <jhummel.johnhummel@net> on Tuesday June 06, 2000 @09:26AM (#1021831) Homepage

    This one is a hard choice for me. On the one side, Iron Chef certainly has the copyrights to its logo, images, and sounds from its show. And it probably has the right to go after people who they feel have violated that copyright. After all, if they don't reign in people now, what's to stop someone else from making Iron Porn or something that comes back to bite them in the butt?

    Now, that having been said, Fuji should take a careful look as to what site is doing what. If the site is positive and promotes traffic, I'd give them a letter saying "Hey, that's our stuff - but you can use it all if you sign this agreement saying that it's all ours, and that you won't claim its yours, and give us a link to our site on each page in a nice viewable manner." This way they maintain control of the copyright (by forcing people to have Fuji's permission, a perfectly reasonable request IMHO), and if a site doesn't agree, then they can slap them down. As always, that's just my $0.02. I could be wrong.

    John "Dark Paladin" Hummel
    We don't just like games, we love them!

  • And the secret ingredient! (Score:3)

    by niekze ( 96793 ) on Tuesday June 06, 2000 @09:27AM (#1021832) Homepage
    The theme ingredient for tonite is..........

    ......A cease and desist order!

  • I think perhaps schools should start tailoring marketing classes to the Internet generation. Corporations, for the most part, have no clue how to take advantage of the free publicity they can get from Internet fan sites. I think they should have the sites all sign contracts regarding the type of content allowed on sites which use copyrighted materials. That way, you pull the plug on access to those materials for someone who is publishing materials you find defamatory, but not for everyone in general. This is as stupid as the Viacom/Star Trek thing.

  • For that matter, can anyone tell me since when the jurisdiction of Japanese IP law extends to sites within the US?
  • --Rant on--

    Ok, first things first: Thanks to Zombie for getting it right! The announcer's name is Kenji Fukui. THE PHRASE IS: FUKUI-SAN! Not shueesan or whatever other vague mispronunciations us damn americans don't bother to check on.

    --Rant off--

    Second thing: Why do you have to use copyrighted images and such to promote the show anyway? IronChef.com had a LOT of content on it, other than the pics and sounds. All Fuji TV is saying in the Cease and Desist order (for those of you who never bothered to READ it...) is that they want the copyrighted material removed. For IronChef.com or any other fan site to shut down completely just because they can't post a few pics or sounds is a cop-out.

    If you can't tell a story without pictures, you're not much of a storyteller.

  • Many American adults don't understand this because America is stuffed full of morons who forget that everything manmade on this planet is the result of commerce! People do not give anything away for free unless it is to lure you to spend money on something else. Period.

    Untrue, many people cook their own meals and serve them to others (we call these people "friends" or sometimes "family") without the slightest expectation of recompense. Graffitti artists (whether you love them or hate them) put their work up for public display and never expect payment. Sometimes, I write software and give it away for free. I hear sometimes other people do that, too.

    The fact that I could come up with mundane daily tasks such as EATING A MEAL to contradict your "People do not give anything away for free unless it is to lure you to spend money on something else. Period." assertion should offer some indication as to how much thought went into your little tirade, there.

  • Appaerently, the people responsible for Babylon5 decided early on that anything short of taping the episodes and selling them on the net would be tolerated. They haven't lost anything for it. Yes, perhaps legally the corporate producers have the right to their copyright, but as with the X-Files, Star Trek and all the others before them, what do they expect to lose?

    Do fans sites detract from their income? No. If anything, it brings in revenue by encouraging new fans to watch the show after seeing the response from the 'Net.

    Do they loose any legal claim to their property because some fan puts a few fuzzy screen captures on the web? No. Only trademark claims are lost if other uses are tolerated.

    The legal issues here may be clear, but the behaviour is stupid. The example of Babylon 5 should serve as a guide to content producers to be a little more tolerant.

    Besides, I have difficulty following Iron Chef without subtitles, and I can't get the Food Network in my area. Those fan sites make my viewing possible.
  • Honestly, that has to be one of the most ignorant PR moves of the year.

    So long as the fan sites aren't using the images, sound clips, etc. to blast the show then isn't this basically free advertising on the 'net for Iron Chefs? Why yes Bob, I believe that it is. So, instead of rejoicing that viewers thought so much of the show that they were willing to dedicate hours of work to honor it, Fuji TV decides that having loyal fans is a Bad Thing (TM). I think that their ratings are about to go South.

    ~CalibanDNS

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